Creation of temporary mortuary space for 30,000 bodies was reported during supposed ‘peak’ of pandemic. Now, as government relaxes lock-down, sends workers back to work and children back to school, it is more than tripling that capacity and warning funeral directors to prepare for massive new ‘spike’
In April, the BBC reported that the UK government had expanded its temporary mortuary capacity by 30,000 in preparation for the peak of the coronavirus pandemic. The SKWAWKBOX had broken the news almost a month earlier.
The government has claimed this week that its decision to relax England’s lock-down could be taken because the country has passed the peak of infections and deaths – and denied that the resulting flood of people back onto public transport and into public spaces will create a new peak.
But the Tories are planning for the actions they are taking – and those they are failing to take – to fuel a huge new spike in cases and deaths.
Whistleblowers have told the SKWAWKBOX that the government is continuing to increase its mortuary capacity – and has told funeral directors, including the London Association of Funeral Directors, that it is increasing its extra mortuary capacity up to 100,000 and that they should prepare for a second spike by this autumn.
This is triple the current additional capacity and represents a death toll vastly larger than the 60,000 or so deaths the FInancial Times and other analysts calculate have taken place during the whole pandemic so far.
The SKWAWKBOX has a strong track record in breaking information about the government’s coronavirus plans, negligence and dishonesty. Although it was attacked for each revelation at the time, the following SKWAWKBOX exclusives are now common currency and accepted as fact by experts and analysts:
- that Boris Johnson’s ‘herd immunity’ plan would result in hundreds of thousands of deaths
- that ice rinks were being converted into emergency mortuaries – before building NHS capacity
- that known-infected elderly patients were being sent back to care homes to die and infect staff and other residents
- that in-hospital coronavirus deaths were being grossly under-reported
- that deaths outside hospitals would double the official death toll
- that the UK was in the 2nd-worst position in COVID-19 deaths, long before government admitted it
- that the government had not asked the NHS to measure staff deaths
- that the Dept of Health and Social Care was telling hospitals not to test staff
The SKWAWKBOX contacted the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG) for comment on the massive increase in capacity for storing coronavirus victims. The MHCLG press office did not deny the increase during the call, but did not respond with comment before the deadline for publication.
SKWAWKBOX view:
The Tories are speaking platitudes to the public in their daily press briefings and in their media appearances. But behind the scenes, they fully expect that their approach will kill huge numbers of us.
The Conservatives have taken offence at the idea that they want people to become infected, but their initial herd immunity plan relied on exactly that and the government has admitted during behind-the-scenes video conferences that they still expect 80% of the population to contract the virus, in spite of their denials in public. Herd immunity has merely been rebranded.
This level of wilful, reckless disregard for the lives of millions is not merely foul. It is criminal. They know exactly what they are doing and what the consequences will be.
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So I guess we can expect a continuation of heart breaking grief combined with a good dose of doom and gloom for the rest of the year. All to the soundtrack of Boris guffawing (in that ‘endearing’ way he has) that everything will be OK and that despite him consistently ignoring the world’s best scientific advice and the direct experience of other countries we can all be reassured because he’s listening to his very own super clever yes-men (& women) who surprise, surprise agree with his strategy.
The the f..kers also have the brass neck to fain concern for the nations mental health.
On a lighter note at least tonight’s Charlie Brooker’s “Antiviaral Wipe” and Diane Morgan’s “Cunk and Other Humans on 2019” provided some distraction from the Tory’s malevolent malfeasance for a few minutes.
It makes it even clearer that the eugenic argument in Govt is carrying on regardless, It’s like other failures such as not controlling airports. The Alt Govt of Dominic Cummings is not going to be stopped by the half wits in the Cabinet especially with the connivance of the PM by confusing people as much as he can. It’s hard Politics where Dom is concerned, hard Right of a very old fashioned British sort. Deliberately stoking the ‘constitutional issue’ v Scotland is just another example of the wind up policy that with the fervent backing of the newspapers is winding us ever more to the Right.,
If we don’t have a vaccine or a cure and we don’t want to stay in a far harsher lockdown (where eventually we all starve) forever, there is no alternative to herd immunity as the only remaining strategy. In Singapore, S Korea China etc, new cases and clusters pop up continually. 90% of deaths are over 80 years old with at least 1 underlying life threatening condition. Thousands of excess deaths due to lockdown. It’s a mess.
I won’t be starving. As was bashed into my head by our lovely military
“Prior preparation and planning prevents piss poor performance”
You have the ability to stockpile food, you also have the ability to grow things and you have the ability to learn how to hunt (hopefully not needed, but you’ll be bloody greatful if it is).
There clearly is alternatives to herd immunity. China has shown the world that putting it’s society first actually helps the economy. Sadly, we’re led by crud, so they think saving the economy is what matters. The flaw in the idea is what happens if everyone does? The economy dies too…
I did hope that this period of time would help people see the bigger picture, but it seems to me that many are enthusiastic to get back to doing what everyone else did. Making billionaires (what you do, or the position you do it at is irrelevant. You’re all someone’s minion. Remember this next time you look down at a fellow slave). This is a large hint to those of us who hope for change that we’re gonna be disappointed.
Back on topic. More proof that given the current circumstances, only you can protect yourself. Stay safe all.
”Sadly, we’re led by crud”
That’s far too generous.
Movianto, the subsidiary of a US healthcare giant, contracted to manage and distribute the nation’s emergency stockpile of PPE for use in a pandemic.,,, coincidence
Certainly a very big Gravy Train
Boots have got a whole carriage.
“…coincidence”
Nah, surely they want to save you… getting more private profiteering tentacles into privatised in virtually all but name NHS on back of Covid fear surely has nothing to do with it. These people/private interests are your savours don’t ya know.
Pritti vacant has decreed social distancing will last forever, will her next decree be masks forever? They do reduce O2 intake so really good for compromised and everyone else in the long term, not… lowered O2 makes you muddled, just what Dr Johnson and his backers need to increase effects on a highly propagandised, fear mongered and confused population.
Oh and don’t forget the data NHS has on us… well that’s up for grabs again. Data, the new oil and Rentier revenue siphoning stream. Our data is sold and no doubt resold for profit without our consent day in day out, now our most intimate and private data is up for sale again under the fighting Covid cloak. It seems for £1. Now when do we hear of deals where £1 is paid… murky, slight of hand deals that’s when.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/we-need-urgent-answers-about-massive-nhs-covid-data-deal/
Maria – You may find this interesting, is it any wonder people are suspicious about the app
The management of the new NHS contact tracing app which could potentially hold anonymised data on millions of British citizens with Coronavirus is planned to be outsourced in the middle of June to a private firm, according to details of a contract released by NHSX.
Meanwhile, according to these contracts, computer engineers working in other European countries and the Far East will have access to the app as part of a troubleshooting role agreed between the NHS and the Swiss firm.
Details of the planned schedule and management for the launch of the App are among six contracts for the app totalling nearly £8 million released three days ago by NHSX to the government’s contract finding site.
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/05/08/nhsx-contract-tracing-app-management-of-outsourced-to-private-company-and-to-be-accessed-overseas/
also this new report from the National Audit Office on the Digital Transformation of the NHS landed in my email inbox just a few minutes ago
https://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-use-of-digital-technology-in-the-nhs/?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=
SteveH, thanks for that as I haven’t taken a huge interest on the apps not having an iphone. I wouldn’t download any one of them if I had an iphone. Can’t afford one or the costs anyway but glad I haven’t got one.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/coronavirus-uk-privately-run-ppe-stockpile-chaos-movianto?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZGF5cy0yMDA1MTU%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK
“Ancipated spike in deaths….”. Another estimate perhaps based on Professor Ferguson’s statistical model discredited by many many Professors, doctors, independent medical research institutions not bought and paid for by the Bill&Melinda Gates Foundation, The Welcome Trust, GlaxoSmithKline or the other International pharmaceuticals. ?How many of these anticipated fatalities will caused by cancellations of important operations, patients unable to receive treatment, people dying isolated in their enforced prisons or people to frightened to visit A&E because of the hysteria being whipped up by the MSM and the State Broadcaster. The NHS recently said there has been a huge drop in people going to A&E in comparison to last year. Not difficult to see why. Fear overrules need!
You’d better hope you don’t end up in one of those blue bags on the storage racks in the temp mortuaries then Brian , you’d look a bit foolish then with pushing this line of ” it all a fake load of hysteria ” .
But then you’d just be another one of those fake numbers of 60 ,000 dead wouldn’t you .
Could the huge drop in NHS numbers ( which hospitals , just some blanket statement ?? ) just be because the quarantine is working and no you’ll never know how many died , but we do know how many have died of CV19 even on this lying turd of a Govts fiddled figures and thats 33,000 so far . Many more to come I suspect .
This Govt have successfully abdicated any responsibility they have to looking after the citizens of this Nation and passed that down to you the individual , you look out for yourself , I’m all right Jack and hey ho lets all get back to work and the kids off to school and not worry about any of this hysteria stuff.
My dear chap, if you look at where the original data from the “ pandemic “ came from and how it was constructed, which has not been peer reviewed by independent Professors, doctors and medical institutions not in hock to the B&GMF or the GlaxoSmithKline, Welcome trusts pharmaceutical corporations who made a, excuse the pun, a killing on the last ‘ pandemic “ in 2009 with millions of vaccines doses being thrown away because of the Profs guesses again, you might take a step back from the MSM, State Broadcaster whipped up frenzied hysteria.
Now, you might also noticed that I have stated that many of the fatalities include people with underlying health conditions, such as cancer, diabetes, hearts problems, respiratory illnesses, dementia and whole plethora of diseases which have affected humanity since they first walked the Earth. Moreover, you may have noticed that by an overwhelming majority the deaths occur in the over 60s ( I am nearly as in my seventh decade and have very serious health problems totally unrelated to Corona-19) and the predominant number in this grouping in the over 70s.
In addition, you may have noticed that many important operations have been cancelled because of the perceived numbers of infections, important treatment for illnesses has been put on hold and there has been a huge drop in the number of people attending A&E compared to last year ( as reported by the NHS) because of fear. Not forgetting of course, as you might well have observed, those who are living in total isolation ( I know a few such people) who have medical problems. Therefore, it should come as no surprise, if there is an increase in fatalities.
However, will they have the cause of death, Corona-19, when it’s patiently not the case as so many cases have been documented. The people who are most of risk are people like me, the old plus people with underlying medical diseases.
“You’d better hope you don’t end up in one of those blue bags on the storage racks in the temp mortuaries then Brian , you’d look a bit foolish then with pushing this line of ” it all a fake load of hysteria ”
The level of threat and fear mongering to try and silence dissent still amazes and at times disgusts me! One thing is for sure, so many have bought into the Covid plague narrative so deeply they will never be able to come back from it. That is my biggest fear… critical thinking may never return in so many previous dissenters on many important issues.
Maria
15/05/2020 at 11:54 , no its not a threat , but a simple statement and if you don’t like it tough , you are deliberately trying to silence my dissent at the continued denial wrt of the impact of this virus. It is not to be dismissed so lightly , I know of no other virus that in 5 weeks or so has killed so many people , 230 odd NHS workers , 50or more teachers etc never mind the 33K ordinary citizens.
I don’t buy into any of the Govt BS , but do believe what my own eyes are showing me.
brianbotou
15/05/2020 at 10:15 am
“My dear chap2 ,,, sorry but pompous condescension , counter productive I stopped reading at that point
“15/05/2020 at 11:54 , no its not a threat , but a simple statement and if you don’t like it tough , you are deliberately trying to silence my dissent at the continued denial wrt of the impact of this virus. ”
Erm, how many times have I interacted with you on this topic exactly? Btw… lockdown, masks and vaccines forever happens to be the consensus on the so called left so I don’t see how you can call yourself a dissenter, just playing with words trying to be clever but using the tactics you and your army of ‘lefts’ use these days.
I am tough, don’t concern yourself.
“How many of these anticipated fatalities will caused by cancellations of important operations, patients unable to receive treatment, people dying isolated in their enforced prisons or people to frightened to visit A&E because of the hysteria being whipped up by the MSM and the State Broadcaster. The NHS recently said there has been a huge drop in people going to A&E in comparison to last year. Not difficult to see why. Fear overrules need!”
My question also. Lest we forget suicides and murders or mental and physical injuries from abuse due to frustrated family members locked up in tiny accommodation for months, lost jobs, children hungry, malnourished and deprived of peer to peer interaction and mental and physical stimulation etc..
It’s not just fear, it’s also condemnation if you try to live more normally or dissent… you are called a murderer! What has society become… ‘there is no such thing as society’ of Thatcher”s ideology is being welcomed by those who sit relatively comfortably on paid furloughs and same income as if they speak for all!
Many wont be able to work even if they still have a job until schools and day care re-open anyway, many wont be able to afford day care anymore due to reduced earnings or lost jobs.
I note they are chucking the homeless out on the streets, how many families will be made homeless as time moves on?
To top it all, I read that weasel Khan says you wont get the virus on the tube in London… the mixed messages and hypocrisy are laid before all but still the penny doesn’t drop such is the level of induced fear and whipped up hysteria.
SMEs are being smashed and they made up the biggest employment sector… but, but but Capitalists want you back to work… workers and smaller Capitalists may well want that but the big boys and super wealthy are quids in by billions due to ‘lockdown’ and vulture capitalists are waiting in the wings drooling in anticipation of the fire sales of SMEs.
As for danger to children. Another report.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-30/children-don-t-pass-covid-19-to-adults-report-indicates
“Precise details regarding pediatric transmission remain unclear.”
NB – unclear ie not obvious or easy to see or know.
Hardly the sort of statement to base a huge assumption on.(Children’s Risk From Virus Appears Low, Summary Finds)
So I guess, to avoid outcries, they will fiddle the data even more. We have to stay vigilant.
“the UK was in the 2nd-worst position in COVID-19 deaths,”
Skwakkbox needs to begin to get the basics right, for a start – in terms of the meaningful ‘per million’ figure.
The death registration data has been ‘fiddled’ in a way that actually *increases* the number of cases of mortality attributed to Covid-19! This, of course, increases panic and fear. That fear relates to an epidemic that shows none of the exceptionality attributed to it in terms of comparison with other epidemic outbreaks.
brianbotou is absolutely right about the direction of suspicion. It certainly isn’t about *underplaying* the virus – it’s about maximizing the fear narrative to an unbelievable extent. Current policies wee based on a projection model that has been laughed at in the serious science community – particularly since the pharma-funded ICL group has a nil record in accurately forecasting virus transmission. Even ‘Leg-Over’ Ferguson clearly didn’t believe his own strictures!
If, after the way news about Corbyn was manipulated, you can’t see a continuity with the current biased MSM narrative – you need to speed up a bit. If you can’t see the same mucky paw-prints over it, then you’re not paying attention.
I’ll leave the ‘Why?’ of the Fear pandemic – just go having a look at the actual dots before beginning to join them up.
Grand Young Duke Johnson has marched the nation up the hill of lock-up house arrest on a false premise and duff data. He now has the problem of marching the engineered scared witless back down again – because it’s obvious that the current situation is unsustainable. A tanked economy – contrary to the beliefs of some simple souls – doesn’t just affect billionaires. Quite the contrary; it affects the worst off most. On top of that, the psychological and social consequences of the current situation are dire. And, as has been pointed out, its not a case of ‘money v. lives’ – it’s lives balanced against lives.
With the virus shown to be far less dangerous than first speculated, the balance of where most harm is coming from, now that the curve of mortality is known to be following a normal pattern, is obvious – the cure is worse than the disease.
There may be further outbreaks – but hanging around in anticipation of something that has a low probability of being particularly serious until a cure-all vaccine if found is a case of living in cloud-cuckoo land.
“If, after the way news about Corbyn was manipulated, you can’t see a continuity with the current biased MSM narrative – you need to speed up a bit. If you can’t see the same mucky paw-prints over it, then you’re not paying attention.”
This is also my opinion but hey… they’ve already integrated a Corbynism mantra into pushing a vaccine by calling it a “people’s vaccine”. I couldn’t help but laugh and feel extreme contempt when I noted Brown was a signatory. Urgh!
Tin foil hat nurse.
@brianbotou: After reading your last post, I couldn’t help but think that a virus with such a specific killing capacity could probably be designed. I wonder if this has crossed the mind of any of the big pharmas or dodgy governments?
I wonder if there’s a virus that would target bankers exclusively; particularly those with a voracious interest in gambling & those having offshore accounts in warmer climes. Or Eton-educated politicians who only lie when they open their mouths – a chronic condition that just gets worse & worse.
Just a thought.
Unfortunately, Boris, his string pullers in B&MGF, the goliath of pharmaceutical corporations, the organs of propaganda plus the recipients from their philanthropic generosity rarely receive the rewards they so richly deserve. At least not in this life. Let’s hope they receive them in the next.
Remembering back to those halcyon days, just prior to lockdown, we heard a government scientist give the number of dead expected as 200,000. Nothing has changed this, but Boris and co have decided that this is a target to be aimed for, rather than prevented. The figure of 200k is based, of course, on the total deaths in the 1918 pandemic, which saw three waves — a serious wave, a cataclysmic wave and a lesser third wave. Notably, we are just entering our second wave. Hold on tight, this is going to be a crazy ride!
So Covid 19 is just a gigantic hoax & it’s just nature’s way of culling the herd; nothing we can do about it as death is a natural part of life. ……….besides, the football season finished too soon. Let’s count the positives; no more bed blockers (all dead); got rid of those privileged baby boomers who own all the houses; pension funds will benefit immensely & the NHS won’t cost so much…..granny took a trip!
Well let’s not forget the NHS cleared out the ‘bed blockers’ and elderly to care homes some carrying the virus, so introducing it to an elderly frail population in a close community and many deaths have occured and will happen due to this. Add to that blanket DNRs and you have a care home recipe for disaster or cull if that’s how you wish to term it.
I don’t believe the virus is a hoax but I do not believe it isn’t nearly as dangerous as the hype and so do not believe isolating the fit and healthy while at the same time increasing the risk on the most vulnerable and shutting down and or discouraging healthcare for many with chronic and even life threatening or undiagnosed conditions and the economy was appropriate. In the medium to long term huge damage will be done to society, economy people’s inalienable and man made legal rights and freedoms.
We get these and flu and other viruses every year, is this how our winters and springs will be spent forever now we are all so fearful of the virus? As far as I am aware there isn’t yet a vaccine to any of the corona viruses scares we had in the past, including Sars Cov 1 which was 2002-2004 ish IIRC.
In time I hope a decent analysis will emerge from sound research but by then the political punch and judy show will have moved on and few will give a monkey’s what emerges. If sound research cannot be done from reliable and accurate data then public health is really in the shit.
Hola Maria,
how can you so cynical? It is unreasonable to hold professional health service managers & politicians responsible for the spread of Covid 19 in Care Homes & Home Care? How were they supposed to know that moving so many untested old people out of NHS hospitals into private care homes would have such unforeseen consequences, besides we have to protect the NHS.
As a catholic I am well aware that the Bible tells me that I have 3 score years & 10 upon this earth, so it is logical to assume this is God’s will & nothing to do with Health Care Professionals.
@Maria: If what you describe in your first para can be proven then managers within the NHS can be charged with criminal acts together with their political masters who will have provided the direction.
I agree entirely. Though we do have a march towards a debased legal system and Judge led kangaroo courts on important issues in UK.
How memory quickly flushes down the plug hole. First, the good doctor said it would be 500,000 ( better than his prognosis for other “ pandemics when he said 200,000,000) revised down to 20,000 after there was uproar amongst his peers, that is the people who don’t owe their allegiance to Bill&Melinda or the others such as GlaxoSmithKline etc plus a few souls with a conscience.
Moreover, it’s noticeable how the peddlers of propaganda were all In lockstep with the notion of a “ pandemic “. Furthermore, it’s also apparent that a synchronised campaign was underway by them to convince the great unwashed that it was a “ pandemic “ much in the same way, as Noam Chomsky put it “ you have to admire the powers of persuasion of the corporate media to convince people that a man who was fervently against racism for over 40 years is now indeed a racist”. In addition, he and Herman wrote a book called “ Manufacturing Consent “ basically how the media uses propaganda to convince people well worth reading to all those who convinced its a “ pandemic “, as we are now witnessing.
Upton Sinclair wrote about journalism ( he was a writer and was a Pulitzer Prize winner) and he said “ It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it”. Equally applicable to the so called “ experts” wheeled out by the organs of truth to try and reinforce the narrative!
If you weren’t sure about this government beforehand, you really ought to be in no doubt, now.
A proper government would’ve used the ‘nightingale’ beds we paid for. And used them properly, instead of sending the elderly into care homes to infect the rest of the residents they decided not to use the nightingale beds at all.
But they’ll still pay themselves and their mates £2.4m per day for those 8,000 unused beds. They say they manage the economy better than labour ever did; but in the same way OUR money is expendable to these rodents, so are our lives.
If it carries on like this, ‘jakey’ rees-smog’s gonna have to learn to wipe his own arse after 50-odd years of having it done for him.
“A proper government would’ve used the ‘nightingale’ beds we paid for. And used them properly, instead of sending the elderly into care homes to infect the rest of the residents they decided not to use the nightingale beds at all.”
Good point and I go further, staff could be billeted on site to stop risk of bringing the virus there. That’s a sensible way of protecting the elderly that apparently had to be shipped out of NHS to free capacity. That’s if we believe Gov agenda really includes protecting the elderly and most vulnerable. Instead the fit and healthy were isolated and the most vulnerable put at risk. Not forgetting the neglect of people with a host of non Covid related serious medical conditions through the mantra of protect the NHS and fear mongering.
Some Care Home staff are choosing to live at their work perhaps to protect their own families? But to require billeting is another kettle of fish because many Care workers have families to look after and many work at more than one establishment. Would you force billeting if there weren’t enough volunteers? How many other workers would you want to see billeted at their work places?
Rob, always the way when people prefer to use cognitive dissonance than face up to facts not fiction from the very institutions that made a kings random from their last “ pandemic “ or how the very pedlars of propaganda convinced the public that a man who was anti racist all his life is now a racist have now pumped out the same bilge based on dodgy guesses, dodgy figures and dodgy MSM with the State Broadcaster in the slipstream. Nice to see they haven’t lost their touch.
brianbotou – Good to see yous and Maria not falling for the brainwashing through scare-mongering.
I am frightened – not so much by this f.ing virus, but by the susceptibility of so many allegedly sane citizens to a pile of crap information, and a willingness to bend over at the command of the establishment, relinquishing any vestige of civil rights at the drop of a toss-pot.
Nobody falling for this is on ‘the Left’ in any meaningful sense – they are lining up behind manipulative despotism. At least some are honest enough to ‘come out’ and praise Chinese dictatorship and story-telling.
Just to be clear : I really don’t want to catch this virus which, for people like me is potentially risky if I get a bad dose. But I don’t wan’t the rest of society hammered to protect me and other old farts from that still pretty low risk. I’ll take my chances and precautions as I would in any similar situation – like every year with flu’ – even tho’ there is no vaccine.
I certainly don’t want to hand my brain over to the Tories for experimentation in psy-ops.
The Queen needs to issue another message on the tele :
“Get a Grip!”
Yes, it’s amazing how quickly people, even on the left, take as gospel statements emanating from an organization which receives 75% of its funding from a private organization with vested interests in pharmaceuticals and vaccines who in turn based there assessment on a man plus organization which again has received amounts of money from the same organization and has a proven track record in being dramatically wrong. It’s a circular form of reinforcement which as plain as the nose on your face.
Yet, many are taking his statements and the WHO at face value as if they have no critical thinking skills. Moreover, it’s also astounding to observe how many people, even on the left, quote chapter and verse the ” experts” reinforcing the circular argument without doing a little research and discovering they are tied to the philanthropic donors either directly through donations or indirectly via companies they own which will benefit financially from the perceived ” pandemic”.
Furthermore, its almost mesmerizing to observe people, even on the left, quoting almost verbatim the very, and I use the word very loosely, news organizations plus the State Broadcaster who continually pumped out propaganda against the Labour party and proven to systematically pursued a propaganda campaign against the Labour party. Again critical analysis seems to have been dumped by the wayside.
In addition, there is the almost constant broadcast of the latest fatalities ramping up the fear and hysteria without asking some fundamental questions. For example, the obvious correlation between age, underlying disease and why they are not being differentiated to reveal the true number of people who have tragically died from the Corona -19.
Lastly, there is the sinister connotations of a populace, even on the left, all to willing to except Police State powers and the open willingness to have the individuals rights removed as though we live in a totalitarian state. It doesn’t bode well for the future of democracy in the UK.
brianbotou 15/05/2020 at 5:08 pm
Yes, it’s amazing how quickly people, even on the left, take as gospel statements emanating from an organization which receives 75% of its funding from a private organization
Really, that’s an extraordinary statistic, do you have any credible evidence to back up this assertion ?
BMA advises Govt NOT to send kids back to school , and R infection rate value for UK now back UP to 1 again already ,,, but yeh keep on dismissing it you could even join the flat earth brigade and make them look sensible
Deniers are a strange lot, whether it’s the claim the planet is flat or the Holocaust ever happened or climate change is real or the existence of a virus they dig their heels in. In Virus Denying they ally themselves with Bolsanaro, Trump, the President of Belarus and the Alt Right/white supremacists and armed militias in the US – and yet claim to be of the Left!! It becomes a religion for them. They’re best left well alone, it’s like arguing with any fundamentalist, they don’t listen.
Paul and rob,
yes that word or rather label ‘denier/s’ is so useful isn’t it to try and demean valid questioning, reporting and opinion. through conflation with previous events that aren’t allowed to be questioned at all. ‘Flat earthers’ is the clincher smear/slander in my case to imply you are a looney. The so called ‘left’ is as adept at using conflation to smear and sideline as the so called ‘right’ yet you go on to conflate all Covid narrative/policy dissenters with all the right wing baddies of the day to confirm your virtuous ‘leftism’ I presume.
I no longer wonder how Hitler, Mussolini et al managed to mobilize and control a large proportion of the population using fear… it’s happening in real time here and now… next comes the increasingly severe repression and ‘punishment’ and disappearing of dissenters all totalitarian regimes practice whatever their declared ideology and that is always veiled in best for you and to keep you safe from the evil ‘other’. Much of the western world isn’t walking blindly into totalitarianism it is begging for it. Poor little humans now cannot survive without handouts and directions from their ‘betters’. Already we have people being sectioned and put into psychiatric facilities for dissent in Europe. In UK it requires only one medical signature under Covid law… tell me pressure or back handers wont play a part in future and that those sunset clauses will laspe fully.
Call me what you want, it’s meaningless to me, used to it from long discussions years ago when opposing brutal Israeli regime actions. Now were those my agent days?
Maria – Are you really advocating that the f…wit opinions of the virus deniers should be treated with the respect that a credible argument would warrant.
It’s certainly going to be difficult without handouts or jobs. The effects of that will be tough. I find it hard to believe that Govts across the World are in this conspiracy to ruin the economy and impoverish the workers all to establish authoritarian rule. You wouldn’t think it was worth it when they were doing very well doing just that before the virus! Their love of profit has been put to one side to better discipline the masses?
Steve H, perhaps we can see evidence of your astonishing claims that Professor Ferguson and Imperial College have not received vast amounts of cash from the Bill and Gates Foundation in addition to your claims that the prognosis of Professor Ferguson regarding his wildly exaggerated claims of fatalities from the last pandemics which he and Imperial forecast : the Bird Flu, The Swine Flu and Foot and mouth epidemics were indeed correct . As I have asked you on numerous times to present credible evidence for your assertions!
brainbotou Steve H, perhaps we can see evidence of your astonishing claims that Professor Ferguson and Imperial College have not received vast amounts of cash from the Bill and Gates Foundation
I have never made any such claims extraordinary or otherwise. However I don’t find it in the least bit surprising that Bill Gates is funding a researcher in a field that he openly supports.
….in addition to your claims that the prognosis of Professor Ferguson regarding his wildly exaggerated claims of fatalities from the last pandemics which he and Imperial forecast : the Bird Flu, The Swine Flu and Foot and mouth epidemics were indeed correct .
I have never made any such claim
As I have asked you on numerous times to present credible evidence for your assertions!
What assertions I wasn’t aware I’d made any
With regard to your 3 accusations above please don’t insult my intelligence with crap about either what you think I said or what you think I meant. You are the one accusing me of having said the above so I expect you to provide direct quotes to prove your nonsense.
How are you getting on with proving that 75% of the WHO funding comes from one private source? Unlike your nonsense above I can easily prove that you claimed this.
As I have very clearly stated on a number of occasions I just can’t see the relevance of obsessively banging on about Prof Ferguson unless you are claiming that the current worldwide spread of Covid-19 doesn’t qualify as a pandemic.
Your silly conspiracy theories don’t add up. Bill Gates simply doesn’t need to make any more money. I would contend that given his obvious interest in providing cures and or vaccines for 3rd world diseases and the woeful failure of big pharma to address these issues I would think it quite logical for him to buy substantial shareholdings in these companies because as a substantial shareholder he will be able to directly influence their R&D programs. Any profits that his foundation makes on the shareholdings in pharma will obviously be available for use funding his foundations work. Your silly conspiracy theories just don’t make any sense in the context of a man who is giving away billions of his own personal wealth.
“ I never made any such claims…” really, you constantly attacked my reporting of Professor Ferguson’s claims about the accuracy of his and Imperial claims about the “ pandemic “ being declared by WHO, despite have been spectacularly wrong on 3 separate occasions about his estimates of fatalities arising from them. You continually tried to put the onus on me, yet, it was you who disputing the evidence that Professor Ferguson plus Imperial were not wrong on those occasions.
Moreover, it seems if you had been “ ..using your intelligence “ you wouldn’t be swallowing verbatim the utterances from people plus institutions with vested interests in the B&MGF plus the international pharmaceutical corporations such as GlaxoSmithKline and Welcome.
Furthermore, your assertion that you see “ …I don’t find it surprising that Bill Gates is funding..”. Really, he has donated huge sums in so called “ philanthropic “ donations to the Professor Ferguson, Imperial and a whole plethora of organisations connected not only medicine but other areas such as genetically modified foods, yet, has almost doubled his wealth in the last few decades from his investments in international pharmaceutical corporations. The idea that he will purely develop his holdings merely to increase R&D doesn’t stand up to scrutiny when in the 2009 Swine Flu pandemic, based on estimates from Professor Ferguson’s estimates of fatalities vast sums of money was made by the very companies which B&MGF has cross holdings in the the International Pharmaceutical giants and the numbers predicted by the good doctor never materialised plus millions of expensive vaccines doses were thrown away.
Now, your continual use of cliches, ad hominem reinforces the point that you can’t produce any evidence to support your claims about Professor Ferguson, Imperial College and the fact that B&MGF is merely being “ philanthropic “ . Lastly, it appears you have form about denying what you have written from other posters. I wait for baited breath for you to produce your evidence which I have asked on other occasions for you to produce but I won’t hold my breath I might suffocate!
brianbotou – It is little disappointing, although not entirely unexpected, that you’ve done exactly what I asked you not to do. All you seem to have provided is a completely evidence free rant about what you presume I meant or said. Not one single direct quote to back up anything you accuse me of saying.in your OP.
I’m not the one who is accusing anyone of conspiring to do anything, All I’ve done is point out that you have bugger all evidence to support your accusation. The simple fact that you have had to resort to demanding that I prove negatives exposes the weakness of your so called assertions. The onus is entirely on you to prove your allegations of wrongdoing, not me. It is surprising how often conspiracy theorists try this trick of ‘prove I’m wrong’.
Conjecture and innuendo is not evidence. You’re making yourself look like a bit of a joke.Surprise, surprise you can’t even provide evidence to prove your nonsense claim that the WHO gets 75% of its funding from a single private source. If you didn’t have proof of this claim then why the f did you claim it in the first place, what did you hope to achieve by apparently just making stuff up.
Unless you are going to ludicrously claim that the current international spread of Covid-19 doesn’t qualify as a pandemic then endlessly arguing that in your ‘learned’ opinion that one scientist’s estimates of what would have happened if we’d done bugger all are irrelevant and what you hope to achieve by this idiocy is a mystery.
If you want to brighten up your fantasy world by making everything into a conspiracy then more fool you but you really shouldn’t be surprised when others call out your make believe world and ask you to support your assertions with some actual evidence.
What a stroke of luck! The new leader of the Labour Party is ex-DPP, as well as being a barrister & QC. The Labour Party is full of solicitors, in fact you have to become one B4 you become a Labour MP. Such a luxury of legal minds will soon be able to unite & represent the interests of those being slaughtered in our Care Homes & Home Care. Gov’t advisers aka Professional Medical Advisers must have known the consequences of their actions when they transferred so many elderly patients out of NHS hospital wards & into Private Care Homes, untested. Covid 19 was cynically ‘seeded’ to do maximum damage. This is not incompetence nor a cock-up! Time for the perpetrators to be called to account & the Labour Party to step up to the plate………but does it have the will? Perhaps Mr & Mrs Blair will help?
Steve Richards – I presume that is why Keir Starmer is carefully ensuring that Johnson’s fuck-ups and deceipt are placed on the parliamentary record in preparation for the inevitable enquiry.
fao SteveH
I hope you are right, but I fear your assessment is the triumph of optimism over reality. If you are right, I shall buy a hat; place it on my head & then take it off! I do dislike wearing hats.
Maria, it’s always noticeable how the number of people who accept at prima facie the latest utterances concerning the “ pandemic “ have to resort to cliches, labels stereotyping especially when they have no idea who brought them into the Public consciousness, why they were used and for what purpose. For example, the concept of the Earth being flat, the Earth the centre of the Universe and the Sun revolving around the Earth etc was the dogma and consensus for a very long time. Indeed, Galileo was forbidden on the pain of death for his Heliocentric books. Yet, his scientific analysis and observations are by and large now the general consensus. Lets hope, we don’t have wait as long as Galileo before the truth will out about the “ pandemic “.
brianbotou – Are you really claiming that the current worldwide spread of Covid-19 doesn’t qualify as a pandemic and if so could you explain why it fails to meet the criteria.
It appears I will have to repeat, yet again, what has been pointed out by many many Professors, Doctors, medical research institutes not in hock to B&MGF, GlaxoSmithKline, The Welcome Trust etc and to date has not been peer reviewed at the time by them about his data which uses a mathematical statistical model which cannot be used to repeat the exact result on every occasion and therefore, Professor Ferguson plus Imperial College have taken an average hence why they initial said prognosis was approximately 500,000 fatalities revised down to 20,000 in the U.K..
Furthermore, on the previous 3 occasions that Professor Ferguson has made estimations such as the bird flu, the Swine Flu and the Foot & Mouth he was spectacularly in error by a very wide margin. In fact, he said that about 65,000 people would die from it ( actual fatalities less than about 500) and because of it Farmers were forced to destroy vast quantities of cattle plus sheep which resulted in many farmers being bankrupt. The beef industry was destroyed by his estimates and eventually DEFA sacked him.
Yet, here we are despite his and Imperial College spectacular failures the WHO have declared the Covid – 19 a “ pandemic” again refusing to let the renowned Professors, doctors etc who are expert in the applicable medical fields not in hock to the B&MGF plus the international pharmaceutical corporations to peer review his estimates to the estimates of a “ pandemic “ based on Professor Ferguson’s plus Imperial Colleges estimates. Let’s hope, you can grasp it this time.
SteveH,
what exactly do you mean by “virus deniers” the denier label is used to conflate all dissenters to keep the Gov ‘approved’ narrative on track. I have remained respectful of ‘virus cultists’ or should I call them ‘reality deniers’… there I stooped to your level for example. Happy now? We can throw meaningless terms at each other so we don’t have to listen and think or step out of our cocoons or cognitive dissonance.
Yes handouts paid for via austerity and tax rises will be needed because of lockdown… the longer it goes on the deeper the cuts and bigger the tax rises over more and more decades… but apparently lockdown must not be questioned at all, ever, in fact many are still calling for more and deeper and draconian measures.
I’m hungry so better catch the next flight to that moon made of cheese… See you at the next loony tunes show no doubt.
Do you believe the virus is less dangerous than annual flu as is often claimed?
Oh, now it’s inquisition time. How will you punish me if I don’t pass your test?
At this point in time I think it causes more severe illness in the vulnerable and especially elderly and with existing co morbidities. For the rest of the vast majority it is comparable to flu viruses, many don’t know they had it, many have mild symptoms for a few days, some need to take to their beds and a tiny fraction need to see their GP and or need hospital admission.
According to this 11th May clip of CMO at press briefing, yes it’s a clip that doesn’t include Johnson confusion scripted narrative or Q & A confusion, I’m sure you can find the whole thing easily for context… CMO’s beliefs via his statement don’t differ much from mine.
https://off-guardian.org/2020/05/15/watch-uk-chief-medic-confirms-again-covid19-harmless-to-vast-majority/
CMO mentions deaths at 1% or under of those infected. There are bound to be deaths. There are thousands of deaths in every flu and similar virus season that have gone unremarked for years, I find that strange, does that mean we only just started caring?
Maria – Why would I want to look it up, the decisions about how a pandemic is way outside my area of expertise (and I strongly suspect yours too). I suppose that despite appearing to quibble over the definition you have at least one thing in your favour you have at least acknowledged that Covid-19 is a pandemic.
Comparing Covid-19 with flu is as I’m sure you’ll agree a false comparison if anyone is going to make a comparisons it should be with other SARS viruses not influenza viruses. SARS and influenza are very different beasts. If you want to find out how virulent and dangerous the SARS-CoV-2 virus really is read the link below.
SteveH said
“Maria – Why would I want to look it up, the decisions about how a pandemic is way outside my area of expertise (and I strongly suspect yours too).”
I suggested you look up the current definition not do a degree in pandemics. I don’t think I have ever claimed to be any sort of expert. I’m just looking, reading, listening and observing from as many non MSM perspectives as I can and trying to form my own opinions. They differ from yours I know, we don’t often share the same opinions or perspectives, so no change there but at least we interacted and it remained relatively civil.
Maria – Are you seriously trying to claim that the current worldwide spread of Covid-19 doesn’t meet the criteria for a pandemic and if so could you explain why it shouldn’t be recognised as a pandemic.
Eh? Now, now, putting words in my mouth… surely not?
Btw, I read or heard that the term pandemic was re-defined not that long ago. A pathogen causing human illness that traverses the globe or much of it is something like the current one IIRC. You can look it up and correct me when you have.
I’m at a loss to understand why Govts across the World are apparently conniving to bring about economic disaster and Social upheaval by pretending there is a dangerous virus about. Some like ours probably do see a chance of culling the over 70’s who cost so much to keep in good health with fat pensions. But why do they want millions unemployed? Why do they want to bankrupt their big businesses? Are they just fed up keeping the boat steady? It doesn’t really make sense.
Exactly. No sense at all without the alien/asteroid hypothesis 🙂
I’ve never even heard of a conspiracy theorist dumb enough to propose a worldwide conspiracy of all governments against the global economy.
Oops, sorry, forgot about David Icke. Oh, and scientology.
Even Moon landing and Holocaust deniers wouldn’t claim ALL the world’s governments would conspire against ALL the world’s populations and wreck ALL the world’s economies for the sake of an April Fool’s joke – “Hey, you’re all going to die!”
“Yah, gotcha!”
Look to those who seem persistently to dismiss CV19 as just a bad dose of the flu or it’s not a pandemic , I really don’t care what you say or do or believe over this .If you want to run round risking getting infected because you want to see the economy being opened up to soon and in utterly unsafe way without any testing tracking or precaution/plans in place ,,,, then fine go right ahead thats your choice , I hope sincerely you don’t get it , but you are increasing your risks by supporting the Govts line on ” getting the economy running again “. The medics the WHO the BMA ,and various professors experts in the field are saying the same thing , don’t .. do .. it .! and that’s good enough for me , yeh there might be one or two that are flawed in their thinking , but we are not talking about just one or two saying don’t do this , the weight of opinion and advice out weighs them .
For me I’ll carry on with the quarantining and for sure am in no hurry to rush out and about , not till the second or third wave is passed as I sure as heck don’t want to end up as a number in a body bag in the temp mortuary , but maybe some do .
“Look to those who seem persistently to dismiss CV19 as just a bad dose of the flu or it’s not a pandemic ,”
Oh dear… did you read my replies carefully? I was asked to compare it to flu and I replied that it is a pandemic under the current definition… perhaps I wasn’t clear enough on that point.
Oh well best if we don’t communicate then… I respect your right to quarantine yourself for as long as you deem necessary. Just don’t expect me to remain in quarantine.
My consultant rang me today after a review of my notes, following last months phone consult, and wants a potential pre-op work of tests at Hosp… I am supposed to be strictly cocooning as they call it here. Hosp rang an hour later, I’m to go for first test next Thursday… hope I don’t get stopped and thrown in a psychiatric ward or police cell on route… So us non Covids are starting to get back to appropriate medical care it seems.
I guess there are quite a few in this situation, I was also one. Yesterday I was phoned by a hospital where treatment had been cancelled in mid February. I was booked for a CV test this Sunday and the procedure on Thursday. But today both appointments were cancelled after they decided they needed heart stress tests – for very good reasons! As a specialist hospital they were relying on information from three hospitals that have been treating me for different illnesses and amazingly they got what they needed this morning. If Dominic Cummings were to read this and knew my age he’d slap his knee and scream “That’s the bugger we’re after; for fuck sake, think of the cost!”. Well how do you think the disabled old man put in the back of a van to choke on exhaust gases felt towards the man in a black uniform watching? He does of course have a point; eugenics was a very popular Idea for decades supported by people across the spectrum. It was thought fatally tainted by Nazism but maybe not. But my point is that throughout this busy day I never once envisaged getting arrested and thrown into a Secure Unit for keeping a hospital appointment!
Maria – I am pleased that your treatment has resumed, it must quite a relief for you that things are progressing again. Although you should obviously take all the precautions you can on your journey for your tests I wouldn’t be too worried about catching Covid-19 at the hospital because from what I’ve read and heard in interviews with NHS staff they have been doing a lot of work to ensure that there is no cross infection between Covid-19 and non Covid-19 patients.
Good luck I hope everything goes well.
Your good wishes appreciated SteveH.
I note that some have now got to shouting ‘Deniers!’ at those who are actually doing exactly the opposite : looking at the hard evidence rather than swallowing the latest bit of anti-reality yellow journalism from the MSM.
Now … what was it the JLM called people who looked at the evidence and came up wit ‘denial’ of the idea that Labour was ‘institutionally antisemitic’?
On the specifics of Fergusoin’s ICL Group – the lack of accuracy in their projections isn’t even a matter of debate – it’s astounding and well known. As to their funding – it’s no great secret.
The bottom line isn’t ‘there’s no virus’ – It’s ‘You have to have a truly exceptional situation to justify totally crashing society and the economy. There isn’t such a situation.’
33K dead ( fiddled figs ) or more like 60K and 230 dead Hospital staff in 5 weeks seems like a pretty exceptional circumstance to me !