Analysis Breaking comment

Labour conference hosting Deliveroo at 2022 party conference

Company accused of scam union recognition to defeat gig workers’ own collective efforts will appear at Labour’s conference – to talk about a ‘progressive gig economy’ at Progress alter-ego’s event

Keir Starmer’s Labour regime will host one of the mainstays of the exploitative ‘gig economy’ next month. ‘Progressive Britain’ – the renamed version of Blairite anti-left pressure group Progress – is hosting a fringe session titled ‘Delivering a progressive gig economy’ – and delivery company ‘Deliveroo’ is the event sponsor:

Deliveroo has been criticised for underpaying riders, for safety failings and for forcing riders to declare themselves as self-employed to drive down costs and the access of riders to employment rights such as sick pay, while making riders race against the clock.

When the IWGB gig workers’ union tried to unionise Deliveroo workers, the company took them to court to defeat the effort – and then made a widely-criticised agreement with the right-wing GMB union that was considered an attempt to undermine the workers’ own efforts to organise and act collectively.

The IWGB said the agreement was ‘a desperate attempt to dupe investors and the wider public into thinking the business takes workers’ concerns seriously. But the actions of its workers speak louder than backroom deals‘:

The IWGB has been the leading voice exposing the exploitative practices of Deliveroo’s business model that are designed to deprive workers of basic rights. As a result of this public pressure and in response to our campaigns, Deliveroo has been forced to introduce sickness insurance, parental payaccess to toilets for riders, reduced waiting times at restaurantspay boosts and recruitment freezes.

Throughout this time Deliveroo has refused to negotiate with its workforce and has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds fighting the IWGB in court to prevent collective bargaining with its riders. Deliveroo has always claimed that collective bargaining would come at the cost of flexible working, but this partnership proves that this has always been a lie to scare workers away from unionising. Now as we appeal our collective bargaining case to the Supreme Court, Deliveroo has cynically made this backroom deal with the GMB, which has no record of organising couriers and presents no threat to their exploitative business practices, to protect itself in the event that it loses at the final stage. Deliveroo is undermining the efforts of couriers to pursue their rights through the courts, to organise for a voice at work, and to improve their working lives.

With Deliveroo’s first AGM next week, this announcement is nothing more than a hollow and cynical PR move. Deliveroo is the most protested food delivery platform in the world, even in the UAE where protests are illegal; our fight for workers rights significantly hindered Deliveroo’s IPO last year, and French Deliveroo bosses have been handed criminal convictions and fines over ‘willful infringement’ of employment law. This deal is a desperate attempt to dupe investors and the wider public into thinking the business takes workers’ concerns seriously. But the actions of its workers speak louder than backroom deals.

The company is seeking to undermine the UK legal system in preventing a successful statutory recognition agreement with the IWGB by securing a voluntary agreement with another union. This partnership benefits nobody except Deliveroo and the GMB leadership, and we call on the Government to review the Union Recognition legislation as it has been routinely undermined by union-busting companies who partner with yellow-bellied unions. If the Government believes in democratic workplaces and true representation of workers, then voluntary agreements such as this should be contestable.

This is not the first time a union has undermined the efforts of workers, claiming to represent their best interests but in fact signing away their basic rights. And it won’t be the last. Uber drivers in the IWGB report that, one year on from the Uber-GMB partnership, conditions are worse than ever. What hope is there for Deliveroo’s workforce who already earn as little as £2/hour? It is only through worker-led campaigning and organising that we can win better pay and conditions. We have continued to organise and win in these situations and we will continue to do so in light of this announcement.

Yet Deliveroo is welcome at ‘Labour’ events, to the extent it is even trumpeted as a sponsor – just as Keir Starmer has cosied up to the Murdoch S*n and continues to show contempt for the people of Liverpool where the conference will take place – and Liverpool shows its contempt back.

The Labour party is dead as a force for the good of ordinary people. As long as Starmer and anyone remotely aligned with him remain associated with it, there is no hope of a resurrection.

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98 comments

  1. If anyone can give a link to the Open Letter supporting strikes, reportedly (Guardian) signed by 600 Labour Councillors, that would be appreciated.

      1. I meant a link to the open letter itself so I can sign or at least share. I am aware of the Guardian article, that’s how I found out about it.

      2. I mean a link to the Open letter itself. I read the Guardian article.

      3. Brian – Oddly, that doesn’t seem to be available at the moment. All the current reports seem to be a re-hash of the original Guardian story.

  2. Fook me…

    Keef may as well go the whole hog and knock a few delivery riders off their bikes.

    1. The following is how Nelly began his response to my initial comment, and then MY response to him:

      Oh Alan! The screaming I do is like most people do, at breaking news on the TV/Computer screen. Then I would tell him about it depending how sensitive it is by email or twitter.
      What was I screaming, a lot Alan a lot! Sack Austin – outbursts in Parliament, campaining to vote Con TORY, Mann harrassment and lying to Parliament……

      Nelly, so who exactly are these ‘most people’ you claim scream at breaking news on their TV/Computer screens? And how would you know that they were screaming at their TV/computer screens?

      And what twitter account did you post on, and what email account? And how many times did you post such comments – ie a few times, or numerous times? And did Jeremy ever respond?

      As for all the things you mention, how do you think his enemies and the MSM – which gives his enemies a voice and is totally hostile to him – would have reacted if he’d sacked Austin and Mann and Smeeth and Berger and Watson et al? And how they would have reacted if he’d booted JLM out of the LP?

      Needless to say, Nelly knows EXACTLY what the ‘response’ would have been! Here’s just ONE example from September, 2016:

      ‘List of MPs who ‘undermined’ Jeremy Corbyn sparks furore in Labour Party leadership race’

      The Labour Party’s leadership race has taken a bitter turn after it emerged that MPs who oppose leader Jeremy Corbyn could be targeted and face deselection.

      A list by Corbyn’s campaign team was issued on Wednesday (15 September) singling out 14 Labour MPs it claims abused the leader and his allies.

      The list, obtained by the Press Association, highlighted Labour MPs such as Jess Phillips for telling Corbyn’s ally Diane Abbott to “f**k off”, John Woodcock for dismissing the party leader as a “f***ing disaster” and Tristram Hunt for describing Labour as “in the s**t”.

      https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/list-mps-who-undermined-jeremy-corbyn-sparks-furore-labour-party-leadership-race-1581408

      PS Imagine the reaction of the MSM if left-wing Jeremy Corbyn-supporting MPs had said the same about a ‘moderate’ leader of the LP or to one of their allies!

      1. I will not justify my right to practice freedom of speech to you Alan, this is fucking disgraceful trolling, from both you and Smartboy.
        I will speak my mind as I ever had AND WITHOUT Smartboy and your attempts to censor me!
        With “Comrades” like you two, is it any wonder socialism is in the fucking state that it’s in! You pair of fucking idiots!

      2. Just spotted that Nelly responded to the comment I reposted above in the other thread a bit earlier, and needless to say DIDN’T answer any of the questions I put to him. Hmm, I wonder why NOT??!

        The reason why he didn’t of course is because it’s all total B/S lies and fabrication! And he had nothing to say about the articles I posted links to EITHER! Yes, well, what COULD he say, as they blow his smears about Jeremy being able to do anything about his enemies in the party right out of the water! The reality is that WHATEVER Jeremy said or did, he was fraudulently demonised and vilified for doing so. And Skellynelly knows it!!!

      3. 1. …because you’re being a TW@T!
        2. …because you’re wasting my precious anti-Corbyn, anti-Socialist surveillance time!
        3. …because I can.

        You want me to take you seriously if you ask me for proof of people screaming at the telly or screen when some news breaks that they are not at all happy with!? FFS Alan MOST PEOPLE DO! Some people even have sponge bricks!
        You saying that People are not allowed to criticise Jeremy is outrageous, if you were to ask him that what do you think he’d say!?
        You are basically suggesting letting Jeremy walk out in the stage with his fly down because you didn’t want to appear critical. I am flabbergasted by the pair of you!
        There is a word for preventing Freedom of Speech it’s Fascism!

      4. And I see that Nelly is off again with his falsehoods, this time about ME! In his 9.46pm shill-post he says the following:

        You saying that People are not allowed to criticise Jeremy is outrageous

        So would you care to copy and paste it Nelly, or link directly to the post in which I supposedly said such a thing. No? Thought not! Oh, and he rants on about me and Smartboy trying to censor him, and his right to practice freedom of speech blah, blah, blah. and of course goes on the attack, as ALL shills do when they are cornered and their lies and smears exposed. The only person that can censor you on this site Nelly is Steve Walker, and I wish he WOULD, along with the other fascist shills on here who spend so much of their time fraudulently trying to discredit Jeremy in the minds of the tens of thousands of left-wingers who follow Skwawkbox..

        Yep, the Nazi pieces of shit on here would have people believe that their smears and falsehoods in respect of Jeremy are legitimate criticisms!

    2. Allan Howard
      Who should we support you and not so Smartboy or Geoffrey Bindman
      In the Middle East Eye article he states JC ignored the advice of his own personal lawyer that he had a strong case to pursue his accusers
      FFS

      1. Jeremy was pretty clear on his cockups in the interview he did with Declassified, he’s not afraid of criticism, and for his sins as stubourn as a bloody mule! Even from that interview it was clear that he did not quite take everyone’s advice, I mean of his then inner circle, for those who will require evidence if I don’t clarifying.

      2. I assume you are referring to the following:

        In a furious row in the House of Commons in 2018, she [Margaret Hodge] confronted Corbyn behind the Speaker’s chair after a crunch vote on Brexit. She is reported to have told him: “You are a fucking antisemite and a racist. You have proved you don’t want people like me in the party.”

        Those comments were protected by parliamentary privilege, but she then repeated the accusation of racism against Corbyn in an article for The Guardian. Corbyn did not defend himself either verbally or legally, rejecting the advice of his personal lawyer at the time to do so.

        Perhaps that’s because he knew he’d be slaughtered by his enemies and the MSM for doing so! As I said in an earlier post, whatever he did or said he was fraudulently demonised and vilified for it! Everything was always spun in such a way so as to damage him as much as they could.

        And Geoffrey Bindman is WRONG about Jeremy never defending himself.

      3. And just for the record, it WASN’T Geoffrey Bindman that stated that Jeremy ignored the advice of his personal lawyer, it was the author of the article, David Hearst. And he DIDN’T say ‘strong case’, and he didn’t say ‘accusers’ either, but Doug, being the shill that he is, ‘transformed’ WHAT was said in the article, AND *WHO* said it, for his own fraudulent and devious purposes.

        Just to be crystal clear, the author was referring to Hodge and, as such, one person, so why did you say ‘accusers’ Doug? Yep, because you’ve got an agenda, haven’t you Doug!!!

      4. Reply to Doug
        I might be a “not so Smartboy” Doug but I am smart enough to know that when NellyKSkelly called me a Corbyn Cultist and a Red in an earlier thread in order to insult me for defending Jeremy Corbyn he is no Socialist. If you think he is maybe its you who isn’t so smart.

      5. You are quite adamant or perhaps not smart enough, I explained this to you already, here is what I ACTUALLY said:
        BlueSteveH accuses me of being a fake socialist Corbyn Obsessed Cultist

        RedSmartboy accuses me of being an anti-Corbyn fake socialist,

        and here I am stuck in the middle with a spinning head!

        As I said a rough take Stuck in the Middle with You, and a piss take on you!
        https://youtu.be/ln7Vn_WKkWU
        To be quite frank the lyrics are perfectly apt for you and Allan!

      6. Nelly, in your 9.56pm post you say that Jeremy was quite clear on his cockups in his interview with Declassified. Could you elaborate as to which cockups – as you put it – he was ‘clear about’ in the interview? And when you say that ‘Even from that interview it was clear that he did not quite take everyone’s advice’, could you give an example or two of his not quite taking everyone’s advice – ie a couple of examples of him not taking advice about what specifically?

        Don’t hold your breathe folks!

      7. Perhaps just watch it for yourself “folks”!
        Then you can agree or disagree, no need to coment and turn lynchmob on my ass, it’s not all that important!

      8. i HAVE watched it Nelly, and you are lying. Yet AGAIN! And THAT of course is why you didn’t and COULDN’T provide any examples!

    3. To anybody who is interested ( and I’m sure many will be bored with it, I know I am)- this is exactly what NellyK Skelly said in his post of 26 August

      “WOW! BlueSteveH accuses me of being a fake socialist Corbyn Obsessed Cultist RedSmartboy accuses me of being an anti-Corbyn fake socialist, and here I am stuck in the middle with a spinning head!”
      People will make up their own minds NellyKSkelly but in my opinion the words you use are those of the hard right not those of a socialist

      1. Smartboy – My sincerest appologies, I haven’t got my pc, but from the minimal android tools that I do have, I see that I did not line break after Cultist and before Red! I also omitted an Exclamation/Punctuation after Cultists. For those two Grammar errors I do appologise profusely! Everything else NO!
        I have expained what I meant 3 times, were done! Nice life and all that!

      1. Precisely Toffee! Starmer and the Labour Right are happy – eager? – for labour to be commodified and turned into substitutable activity. With leaders like him, who needs enemies?

        FYI, the excellent report that the guy above (Choudary) presents (“The architecture of digital
        labour platforms: Policy recommendations on platform design for worker well-being”) (here ), lays out a cohesive framework for regulating frameworks and optimising worker rights (section 8.3) – a very useful read and one that Keir Rodney Starmer & co. would rather you didn’t.

        Keir Starmer is not just a bad (RW) leader of Labour, he is its billionaire-backed destroyer.

  3. Thanks to Globalisation and the EU …
    Germany got the engineering / manufacturing.
    The UK got Deliveroo.
    How could that happen ??!!

  4. No not thanks to the EU – for the decline
    in Manufacturing and Engineering started
    long before we joined the EU.

    In fact its not ONLY been replaced by Deliveroo
    and its like but also by the financial instruments
    in the City -who cater for Billionaires and
    – latterly-Oligarchs.

    This is – I believe partly because of our Culture
    and there is a book about it called
    “What We Have Lost – the Dismantling of
    Great Britain” by
    James Hamilton-Paterson

    Sorry – I know I have mentioned it before!
    It certainly gives one pause for thought even
    if you disagree.

    1. Adding to my previous post – I have looked at the reviews
      and the book is criticised for its lack of academic rigour.

      However it does make some good points and one I can
      concur with is the way Science and Engineering are
      looked down on in some quarters.

      I went to a Grammar school after I had been through
      the 11+ with a Head who was good in some ways -ie
      very scholarly but who regarded academic fields
      as a hierarchy with Classics at the top! Science was
      very much at the bottom ..

      1. “criticised for its lack of academic rigour.”

        Maybe it’s a classic-case of the Establishment demeaning its critics to protect its vested interests? The number of excellent biomedical and biochemical studies that get the same put-down is numerous.

  5. And on a very dangerous and serios development with Sir james Bevan a so called expert is advising the notoriously Thames water to develop the use of….sewage water dumped in rivers to supply good clean tap water to the victims.Now theres nothing new in sewage treatment being used but it requires expertise and carfull planning in desperate situations where water is a finite resource.Many of you know that I worked in water \sewage the clean drinking water in the third world.and even then we never were driven into risking the health of the locals.by polluting the scarce resources with sewage as this other bloody clown knight is pushing.IN one of the wettest cloudiest green countries in the world we are considering serving up sewage.Whats wrong with these bloody parasites that they think we are all absolutely stupid and trust these criminals with a title not to kill us….This shit has got to stop(to pun a phrase).I fear for my class in Britain were the entitled titled would dish up arsnic to the working class and have already crossed the line with the covid scam and euthanasia for the vulnerable people of Britain
    .General strike and clear the parasites out of parliament.and stuff the labour party pow wow conference…boycott and demos and come kitted up.thats the only way when you are fighting for your lives.

    1. Sewage water is tap water, that is what sewage treatment plants do, remove the clean drinking water from the shit. It is an extra cost however, BUT an essential extra cost. On a tiny Overpopulated Island like ours, the BILLIONS & BILLIONS of litres of precious water pumped out into our oceans/rivers as Toxic Raw Sewage is bleeding our water reserves dry.
      When a friend told my about the Raw Sewage into the Oceans and Rivers I said to her the next announcement will be drought! The bastards are creating the next cricis!
      I wonder if The PEOPLE could sue the Government for misappropriation of our taxes ie Ukraine, and mismanagement of Covid, Privatised Cos, Orgs, ie Water, Energy Gas/Electric, etc, etc! The fuckers have bled our coffers dry, but their hauls are overflowing, surely with smart lawers, of a trustworthy nature, they do exist, there is a case in that.

      1. Nellyskelly I use a four tank system using rocks gravel and the final tank acting as a natural burnt charcoal that filters clean water from boreholes.and delivers by gravity to the commune.
        Water in Britain cannot be trusted to the water companys and certainly not sewage to drinking water which already contains chemicals flouride and graphine.I served as a apprentice plumber in the early sixties when our water was delivered via victorian reservoirs via lead pipes and galvanised piping.Despite all this the quality of drinking water was better and the company’s took the maintaince of pipes,reservoirs and sewage treatment seriously….not so today with even samples of drinking water containing polio virus and excretions of “shit” ..The water companys cannot even maintain the victorian system and never invest enough in water storage and pipework leaks from their side of the stopcock.
        massive water loss and saving imoney by dumping untreated sewage into rivers.is the byword for desease in a country that has plenty of water but like everything else little or no investment.In storage or new reservoirs.Most of the system dates from victorian times…I could point out a lot more about this subject that I spent most of my life installing and operating in Britain and abroad.what I wouldn’t do is trust the water companies to convert sewage to drinking water.Britain short of water is like saying we need more sand in the desert.Ps the country is not overcrowded just the best bits in the hands of the few…..solidarity comrade and keep posting!

      2. Ditto to you Comrade Thank You!
        I am genuinely interested in your water filtration, I have toyed with the idea of offgrid living and I always get stuck at the final stage of water, the charcoal do you need to replace that every so often?
        I thought of making a flat box meshed shapes that slots so many at one time for easy removal & replacement.

      3. Nellyskelly…I am glad you have a interest in water as its the most important issue for many all over the world t.My system of water purification comes from necessity has you may be aware uncle sam dropped thousands of tons of agent orange on our rural areas.in Cambodia in Nixons secret war.
        We burn our own logs and make charcoal for the final filtration as many logs bought on the market have been treated or have been oiled.We change charcoal every year and the rocks and pebbles every year as well.The borehole pump is worked by solar and we also have a generator and mains electric on the N4down part of the belt road. off our dirt road
        .ITs been a great learning and assimilation experience knowing we have very little choice with the covid ban and passport but to stay.like thousands of other expats or holdymakers that were trapped when the departures gates closed down.all around the world.We are lucky enough to love the country and our change in lifstyle but living off grid is not easy especially as we find that we tire very easily in the terrific heat and humidity virtually all year round..We can fall back on the family who now do more of the manual work now I am aging quickly now.Good luck comrade but you shouldn’t need it has you and a few others have seen the light and clearly know whats coming.

      4. Thanks for that Joseph, I had an idea for Gaza when I saw an electric generator they made with the ocean movement, for some reason this thing popped in my head. You’ll know the old survival trick of a hole, small container to catch the water, covered with a plastic sheet and a stone in the centre to form a funnel shape, so that the condensation rises collects on the plastic runs down and drops in the container at the point where the stone is. What I invissioned was a large scale adaptation a concrete pump dam, with an upside down copper funnel with a black outside for max sun heat that draws condensation from sea water and runs into a reservoir, as it is condensation I guess it would need treatment for missing minerals.
        Another thingthat bites is a few weeks ago I saw a news report that all rain water all over the worl is contaminted with carcinogenics, have you heard that, to me it juist sounded like another covid all over again and didn’t pay too much attention.

  6. HolbyFanMw is largely correct in respect of the EU’s role in the de-industrialisation of Britain.
    However – I worked 28 years for a large metal-processing company – 6500 of us when I started there.
    When it closed in the late 1990s, all our higher-added value work went to three German companies.
    Our bottom-of-the-market work went to India and China.
    I spent the next 20 years doing very-specialised work for the three German companies – all of them manufacturing for the UK market.
    One of them was very-heavily-subsidised by EU money.
    All of them laughing at us …. and our “Deliveroo” economy.
    When I sought the support of our local Labour MP to support our UK company – I got the reply:
    “Ah well John – You have to realise that it’s a European market now”
    That’s why I say:
    Germany got the engineering and we got Deliveroo.
    At least I was paid good money for my part in processing the work from the three German companies.

    1. Spot on Johnsco1!

      In fact Qwertboi – the critic who mentioned the lack of
      academic rigour was frustrated in that
      a much BETTER book could have been written if the
      author had paid more attention to this aspect. Others
      agree – and say the same thing but much more briefly.

      However other readers ignore this and give it 10 out
      of 10 – they are happy to take it as they find it. Its
      a while since I read the book .. but posters might
      find it interesting to read the reviews. The only
      problem is that you will have to steal yourself into
      looking at the Amazon web site.

      Getting back to a comparison of the EU and ourselves
      – I think we are looking at the symptom and not the
      cause. I too worked with the EU and also with students
      from countries from the Eastern bloc previous to them
      joining te EU – and was impressed by the attention to
      the academic of both .. In fact I was impressed at the
      interest of ALL international students in the academic –
      – a trait missing from most UK students.

      I believe the problems emerged in the 19th Century where
      somehow there arose a distinction between “Academic”
      and “Technical/Science”*** where the former were admired
      and the latter looked down on. From what I recall
      some “Posh” schools did not even have science on the
      curriculum? Perhaps some other posters can clarify ..

      I somehow think these attitudes did not persist on the
      Continent!

  7. The original Dr. Johnson’s dictionary of the English language, printed in 1755 provides a definition of the term ‘Projector’ as a person or persons “who form wild impractical schemes.”

    A group of people whom the satirist Jonathan Swift caricatured at great length. It is a shame he is no longer with us as today’s crop of Projector’s would keep him in material indefinitely.

    The Deliveroo model is but one of a great many such Projector schemes – from fighting inflation by printing money for billionaires to store in the Cayman Islands to lobbing live artillery ordinance at a nuclear power plant and blaming those running the plant for shelling themselves.

    In the case of the Deliveroo model those who have concocted it seem to aimed at a paradigm beyond slavery inasmuch as that in this case not only do they not have to feed and shelter the slaves they also have the slaves paying into the system for the dubious privilege of being slaves.

    With the fuel and associated costs of transport to be paid for by the alleged ‘self-employed’ slave-couriers there is no reasonable possibility of outgoings being less than the pittance paid to them for the ‘privilege’ of what passes as ‘paid employment.’ These people are paying more to work than they are earning.

    Swift, in his usual extracting the urine style, once got into trouble for proposing that the ‘problem’ of so many beggar’s, particularly children, could be solved by feeding such children to the rich at a year old. The ‘Projector’s’ of today have gone beyond even that such is their level of ignorance, arrogance and avarice.

    As matters stand – with energy and transport costs set to reach unprecedented levels for the majority of Her Majesty’s Subjects and inflation predicted at over 18% (using a method of calculation that is, at best, highly dubious in terms of underestimation) by next year- this Projector scheme is now being rolled out to the rest of the populace.

    And, as Hugh Benyon would have recognised, in true ‘managing discontent’ style the Trade Union Bureaucracy and Labour Party hierarchy are busy selling this by pissing down everyone’s back and telling them it’s raining.

    Corporate propaganda rags like the Sun and extreme worse than slave labour exploitative companies like Deliveroo can get a hearing from the self-proclaimed gatekeepers of working class representation in the Labour Party and too many so called Trade Unions like the GMB who have clearly sold out to the Feudal Aristocracy which still runs these islands like the Mafia after a Millennium.

    Yet Labour Women’s Declaration (LWD) cannot even get a stall at the Labour Conference and will doubtless find themselves surrounded and intimidated, with official blessing, by a screaming entitled and exceptionalist mob of the ususal crop of mardy arsed cowardly narcissists of a men’s supremacy movement should they attempt to meet to protect their sex based rights in Liverpool next month.

    They should rebrand themselves as arms manufacturers’ They’ll have Projectors everywhere from Paul Mason to Keir Starmer kissing their arses.

  8. No surprise to find the GMB up to no good.

    The GMB is enthusiastic about nuclear weapons and fracking: two things that threaten our very survival including, of course, the survival of GMB members.

  9. Come on, fracking (though undesirable) is nowhere near as much of a threat to our survival as nuclear weapons are. Get real!

    No, trade-offs will have to be made here and if we want to keep the lights and our electronic devices on and not freeze to death in our homes we’re just going to have to bite the bullet on that one, aren’t we!

    Or else pray for a mild winter…

    1. Good luck with that given:

      A; That the EROI (Energy Return on Energy Investment) for fracking is so inefficient its only just above the energy sink threshold (an energy sink is where the energy extracted is less that the energy input required to extract it)

      Not to mention the high and rapid depletion rates of Wells compared to other energy extraction sources.

      Why do you think the US fracking industry has barely, if ever, made a dime? Being reliant on heavy government subsidy through energy industry lobbying and selling junk bonds to gullible pension funds. Last time I looked the US fracking Industry had a debt level not far off a third of the US defence budget.

      B. The copious amounts of water wasted – with typical per usage of anything between 7.6 million litres per Well at the low end up to 76 million litres per well at the high end. A typical field may contain anything up to 15,000 or more wells

      That is water heavily contaminated with the kind of toxic chemicals listed here:

      http://www.mubychem.com/fracturingchemicals.htm

      Along with Radioactive Radon – Thorium, naturally occurring Uranium etc -; heavy metals (including Lead, Arsenic, Mercury Strontium, Benzene and Chloride; volatile organic compounds etc.

      How much energy required to remove those kind of contaminants in the required volumes?

      Swift would have loved to tackle that kind of unworkable ‘Projector’ scheme and would have exposed it for the sham it is.

      1. Fair point, I’d forgotten about B, the water pollution bit.

        However, it seems we’re going to have to hold our noses, whatever we do and it’s likely to involve fossil fuels and pausing (if not dumping) green levies on energy bills. It seems to be the only immediate solution to hand, unless you have a better one…?

  10. “Progressive Gig Economy”? File that contradiction-in-terms alongside “Military Intelligence”!

  11. I am amazed at your sheer desperation! You know that after ‘cultist’ and before ‘red’ there is a line break! So I didn’t put a full stop, and you, you saw you opportunity! I only separated it further so that you could CLEARLY SEE what I have ALREADY EXPLAINED to you, for you to now remove the line break entirely is disingenuous, shows you for the NASTY OPPORTUNISTIC TROLL that you are!
    My “words are hard Right”!? What the fuck Class Politics are you trying to play?
    Fuck you! MY words are MY words, MY politics is MY politics!
    YOU WILL NOT JUDGE ME!
    Just like we saw 2015 to 2020 all those “nice” people who crawled from under their rocks, I see you Smartboy, I saw you in all your glory!
    #NEVERFORGET!
    #NEVERFORGIVE!

  12. This Deliveroo nonsense is is indicative of the mindset of those who have taken over the LP. However, we already knew what their mindset is (with the exception of one or two contributors).
    There are much more significant developments in recent days which give an indication of what the future holds. Lord Dannatt (you may recall him, not a great supporter of Russia) has said that Ukraine needs to come to a settlement with Russia, not least because the economies of the EU and the UK are being trashed by the economic war that they undertook against Russia, and the inflation rate in Russia continues to fall.

    1. Here’s a quote from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
      “Every day we fight so that everyone on the planet finally understands: we are not a colony, not an enclave, not a protectorate. Not a gubernia, an eyalet or a crown land, not a piece of a foreign empire, not a ‘part of the land’, not a union republic. Not an autonomous zone, not a province, but a free, independent, sovereign, indivisible and independent state.”

      1. Steve H you mean the actor \comedian that has homes all over the USA and a green card so my doughter a democrat tells me as she lives near just one of his bolt holes in St Augustine \Jacksonville.Lovely spot overlooking the St johns river with boat ramp of course and suits providing security for the bolt hole fanatic..curtusy of the hard pressed US public that are becoming increasingly disillusioned with the corrupt politics of neo liberals like you and the other labour party.misfits.I explained that the labour party have morphed since she was a member into a fascist endeavour…..I also understand that our Nazi dictator has a mansion in miami just off colins avenue on the beach 🌴…….Nice for some “innit mate”

    2. I bet Skwawkbox’s visitor number is high today re the party hosting Deliveroo. Starmer + Co. probably don’t realise the harm they are doing themselves.

      1. It will be interesting to hear directly from Deliveroo how they are gong to modify their business model to accommodate the excellent changes in employment law that Labour have promised.

        • Fair pay agreements. A Labour government will bring together representatives of workers and employers to negotiate pay and conditions in every sector. Collective bargaining in every sector will end the free market free-for-all that encourages undercutting, exploitation and a race to the bottom.
        • Give all workers rights from day one in their jobs: sick pay, holiday pay, parental leave and protection against unfair dismissal.
        • Create one, single worker status, banning bogus self-employment.
        • Ban zero-hour contracts and ensure all contracts come with minimum hours and reflect normal working life, requiring notice of shift changes and pay.
        • End fire and rehire. Labour will end the scandalous practice of fire and rehire once and for all.
        • Introduce a new right to flexible working as the default, protections for those with caring responsibilities and a right to switch off.
        • Increase statutory sick pay and make it universal.
        • Put mental health and safety on a legal par with physical health and safety, and make sure the laws are enforced by a new, empowered watchdog.
        • Sign into law the new deal for working people within the first 100 days of coming to office.
        • Set up an integrity and ethics commission to stamp out the Tory sleaze.

      2. Then again peobably not, your ‘middle-class’ are the new Neo-Labour Party lowest of the low, it won’t affect you, it will affect us UNDESERVING POOR down here in the lower classes, the ones you step over as you’re grunting your disgust at our existence!

      3. nellyskelly – I appreciate that you would rather Labour lost the next GE but I’m struggling to see how that will help you or anyone else, especially the vulnerable that you profess to care about whilst sacrificing them on the alter of your political dogma. Have you read the Green Paper yet?

        Labour’s new Employment Rights bill is strongly supported by the Trade Unions.
        This is what Tim Sharp the Senior Employment Rights Officer at the TUC said.
        https://labourlist.org/2021/07/tuc-labours-new-employment-rights-policies-are-popular-and-much-needed.

      4. I struggle to see how it would have a positive impact to those below the middle classes, for whom the Neo Labour Party TORIES have a far greater hatred that even the disastrous Conservative Party TORIES! In two years the Neo-Labour Party TORIES have done not a single thing for and have not said, attempted to vote for, stand up for The most vulnerable of our Nation. They have consistently voted in favour of this governments policies while throwing out into the arena a few, vote for me, fluff words or policies!
        Tim Sharp is not going to be the Prime Minister and TUC is not going to be the Government. Unions under a Conservative TORY Government are far more active, productive, awake and militant than they were under a New Labour Government, in fact that did more damage to the Unions and Labour Movement than old rattle bones in a box ever could!
        The fundamental difference is that a Con TORY Government won’t single out “The UNDESERVING POOR”, as The Neo-Labour TORIES would, but well into the upper middle classes will feel their wrath. That is no bad thing, the sooner we can wake The PEOPLE up, the better, and if ever there will be a siren to the cause, then that would be to make the middle classes suffer as the lower classes do! “Stronger Together” where Together, actually means ALL OF US, until we are all wide awake!

      5. PS What does it feel like now that GetCorbyn and VoteTORYtoStopCorbyn are slowly blowing up in your faces! Perhaps if you Neo-Labour Party TORIES played a little nicer after the sacrifice of Corbyn and the Murder of The UK Labour Party, (RIP 13 DEC’19), you may have fooled more of The PEOPLE, with your sweet words and fluff bubbles of no substance or truth!

    3. The problem is that Putin is not trusted – even to the extent
      of working for the economic good of Russia. It is believed
      his attitudes to Ukraine are not rational and his intentions
      are to take over ALL of it ..even if it means heavy Russian
      casualties and Ukraine in complete ruins. He has made a
      complete mess of this invasion and is now criticised by
      some who agree with his objectives.

      Remember Chechnya? Corbyn made several speeches
      criticising the brutality of that war and Putins part in it..
      He went on to criticise Putins record on Human Rights
      even while Blair and his mates were fawning all over him
      and trying to persuade him to visit the UK.

      In this he is completely different from Khrushchev who had
      a limited objective with respect to Cuba -although an extremely
      risky one. Its seems that Putin is far more
      dangerous than the Soviet leaders of old – because the
      position was formerly dependent on a vote by the
      Council (?) whereas there was no formal way of getting
      rid of Putin.

      1. “The problem is that Putin is not trusted – even to the extent
        of working for the economic good of Russia. It is believed
        his attitudes to Ukraine are not rational and his intentions
        are to take over ALL of it ..even if it means heavy Russian
        casualties and Ukraine in complete ruins. He has made a
        complete mess of this invasion and is now criticised by
        some who agree with his objectives.”
        Could you post a link to the analysis from which you got this information?

      1. The comment above was intended to be attached to this:
        “SteveH29/08/2022 AT 6:40 PM
        …….. obvious.”

      2. Don’t mention it.
        And, for my part, I thank you for your regular fatuous comments.

  13. On Ukraine, six months in, and belligerence being the only game in town, we should look at putting a UN peacekeeping force around Donbas and the Crimea in conjunction with a halt to hostilities and then oversee elections in these contested regions.

    1. That might have worked in 2014 right after the coup, but there is no chance now.
      There appear to be only two options now.
      1. Ukraine and Russia negotiate a peace treaty and everyone else stops meddling.
      2. Ukraine is defeated and surrenders.
      Surely number 1 is preferable.

  14. Golbach –
    The problem with 1 is that hostilities have got to
    a stage where neither party will submit
    to negotiations until they can see an advantage
    for themselves.

    The fact remains though that it wa Russia who
    invaded – the same Russia who said they would
    respect Ukraine borders if they gave up Nuclear
    weapons.

    They have now invaded TWICE – the second
    time through “fear of NATO and its bases”**
    which they say were unnecessary because
    Russia was no danger to anyone. Now there is
    a contradiction if you go through the logic of
    that. Not that I think NATOs increase in bases
    were a good thing for they were not. (To be
    honest the whole thing makes my head spin..)

    The first Invasion was caused by a Civilian
    March to protest against Corruption and
    the involvement of Russia in this via their
    Oligarchs. There were Ukrainian Oligarchs
    too – ie pointy elbowed ex-members of
    the Communist party who expropriated
    State owned resources just as soon as
    Ukraine became independent when the
    Soviets broke up in 1991 and following ..
    The events in the Maidan were – to my
    mind on a par with the 1968 march for
    Civil Rights of NI Nationalists – after which
    they were beaten up by the B-Specials.
    The “Troubles” which followed led
    eventually to “Bloody Sunday” with the
    Paras murdering unarmed Catholics .

    The UN is reporting on War crimes
    committed by Russia .. and doubtless Ukraine too.
    Asking Ukraine to negotiate is like asking the
    NI Nationalists to negotiate after Bloody Sunday –
    and that is the problem with starting a war ..

    PS *** I will provide a link to the lack off respect
    of senior military to Putin – when I can find it.
    I just need to look through my “history”.

    1. You have me very confused here.
      1. “the same Russia who said they would
      respect Ukraine borders if they gave up Nuclear
      weapons.” – Are you referring to the Minsk agreements? These agreements covered not only respect for Ukraine’s borders but also a cessation of the attacks on Lugansk and Donetsk and a respect for the right of these republics to internal self government, along with recognition of Crimea as being part of Russia. There was also the matter of neutrality. If you’re not referring to the Minsk agreements could you clarify?
      2. “The first Invasion” – Could you clarify when this refers to?
      3. “The events in the Maidan were – to my
      mind on a par with the 1968 march for
      Civil Rights of NI Nationalists” – These events are by no means on a par. The former was a coup orchestrated by Victoria Nuland. There is a recording of her conversation with the, then, US ambassador to Ukraine in which she discusses who should be installed as president and how much money would be required to finance the coup. When the ambassador raises questions about how the EU would view the coup, she is heard to say “F**k the EU”. The State Department has never contested the authenticity of the recording.
      4. “The UN is reporting on War crimes
      committed by Russia .. and doubtless Ukraine too.’ – The UN mission would like to do so but it is unlikely that any investigation could ever take place. It is far too late to get any forensic evidence and any testimony could never be verified at such a late date. It’s unfortunate, but we have to live with what can be done rather than what we wish could have been done.
      5. “The fact remains though that it wa Russia who
      invaded” – Yes. However it appears that it was probably done within the requirements of international law. The declaration of independence by Kosovo a generation ago resulted in the International Court of Justice being asked by Serbia to rule that it was against international law. The court ruled that regions with representative assemblies were entitled to declare independence. This would apply equally to Lugansk and Donetsk, and to Crimea. Russia recognised the declarations of independence of these three Oblasts in 2014. Ukraine kept on attacking Lugansk and Donetsk from 2014 through to 2022. In 2022 Russia signed defence agreements with the two republics. When a state with which you have a defence agreement is attacked, it is within international law to go to their aid. Russia waited for three days during which Ukraine continued to bombard Lugansk and Donetsk before triggering the defence agreement and attacking the Ukrainian forces. Of course, the ICJ has not yet been asked to rule on whether this was all carried out according to international law, but there is at lest a very good case to be made that it did. I suspect that it will never be referred to the ICJ because facts “on the ground” would make such a referral pointless.
      6. The comparison with Bloody Sunday – There are suggestions, which would need to be taken seriously, that the killing of demonstrators and police in The Maidan were not what we had been told. We heard that some demonstrators were killed by police and some police were killed by demonstrators. There are serious allegations that both the demonstrators who were killed and the police who were killed were all killed by snipers from Georgian paramilitary groups who were active in Ukraine at the time. There needs to be an independent investigation of these allegations but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

      1. goldbach – Not the Minsk agreement but the earlier Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances

      2. Budapest – thanks.
        I guess, then, that it’s a case of whether item 5 in my comment above supersedes Budapest or not. Only the ICJ could rule on that. A pocketful of readies for the lawyers if it ever gets there?

      3. goldbach – You can dream up whatever claim what you like but I think that you will be proved wrong.

      4. Do you mean that you think I am wrong to think that only the ICJ could rule on the matter?
        Or do you mean that you think that I am wrong to suspect that the matter will never reach the ICJ?
        If it’s the former then you are wrong. Interpretation of international law is the responsibility of the ICJ. No question. If you refer to the latter then my suspicion may well be wrong. I hope that it is but, whichever way, there is nothing “dreamed up”.

      5. goldbach – I just think you are talking a load of bollocks, is that clear enough for you?

      6. To quote a twerp “I think YOU are talking a load of bollocks.” but that is nothing new.
        You are, of course, free to disagree with my assessment. It would contribute to debate if you were to evince a counter argument rather than resort to your usual disinformation strategy.

      7. goldbach – You mean apart from the ICJ being impotent in this situation.

      8. What are you drivelling on about?
        You know as well as I do that the ICJ doesn’t have the power to impose punishments in such matters. To that extent, it is always impotent. It does have the power to make rulings on whether or not actions are in accordance with international law.
        Have a pina colada and stop inventing arguments which have no merit.

      9. goldbach – …..and that is going to make a difference because?
        Have you any idea how the ICC’s investigations are progressing?

    2. There are several keywords omitted by MSM regarding Putin/Russia/Ukraine.
      1. Nazis
      2. Minsk Agreement
      3. Special Operation
      4. Putin is the leader of a Conservative Party Leader much like Johnson and Biden (well as with us, since Clinton/BLiar brought us One Party State.)
      Those four are key, t was the Nazi attacks on Rusian Ukrainians in Donbass that resulted in the Minsk Agreement ignored by Zelenski, UN, ICC, France and Germany, there were no proactive steps taken, there were no negotiations, but there were many dead Russin Ukrainians and not just in the Donbass, then we can’t forget the MSM Hysteria andout NATO flexing muscle, UK, USA and EU making threats of all kinds. What was Russia to do, that was a very serious situation with a lot of sovereign nations and NATO making constant threats at Russia. So they launche this Special Operation, and the slow speed they are moving at is testament to their caution and care to Ukrainian Civillians if that was a war it would have been over on day 1. Then there is the constant hinting to Soviet, Communist, etc, etc perhaps not directly but sneaky propaganda, that is obvious in the hate

      1. ……*fucking android!* …in people who are anti Russia, and what we are seeing in Europe, The Russophobia, The confiscation and sale of assets, property, goods, Banning From Sports, banning from visiting places of Historical interest, Travel Bans, idiotic backfired sanctions etc, etc brings us back to the first word NAZIS!

      2. Do you mean the assets that the Oligarchs stole from the Russian people.

      3. Are they Russians!? And does Europe’s behaviour and MSM Propaganda, feed directly into the hate of Russians? Yes it does, that is why we saw signs in London, the only good Russian…….!
        You need to wake up Steve! Look outside of your comfy Middle Class Bubble! ‘The money the Oligarchy stole from the Russian People’, The UK has 9 out of 10 POOREST areas in North Europe and ONE, NOT JUST ONE, THE Nr1 richest place in Northern Europe, can we have a worrd about the British Olicharchy stealing from the poorest, and a reconcilliation? Are those plundering governments giving the money back to it’s rightful owners, The Russian People?
        As shit as Putin and his Government may be, they are looking quite a lot better than BoJoke, CheesyTruss and BlueKeef and the state of Britain!!!

      4. You are of course entitled to your opinion (regardless of how misguided you may choose to be) but no amount of attempts at whataboutery will alter the facts.

      5. Yes you are exactly right!
        “no amount of attempts at whataboutery will alter the facts.”
        And the facts are all lying dormant in wait!

      6. Oh, nellykskelly, he accused YOU of whataboutery.
        I would need to have a stiff drink if it wasn’t permitted.

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