SATIRE (barely). But UK has the highest coronavirus death rate in the world – and Johnson is ‘very proud’
Watch with, er, pride:
The UK has the highest number of deaths per million population of any country in the world, even on the government’s official figure that everyone knows is far lower than the real toll:
On all-time deaths per million and the total number of deaths, the UK currently ranks a global second. The UK’s death toll of around 70,000 – even the government admits the official total of 39,000 is understated – is second only to the USA and is far ahead of any other rival, even the much larger Brazil.
Hundreds of health and transport staff, teachers and other front-line workers have been killed by the virus.
The vast majority of deaths – as high as three quarters – could have been avoided if Boris Johnson had even announced the UK’s lock-down a week earlier. Even more could have been avoided if the government had used the months before the virus hit the UK to build personal protective equipment stocks and an effective test, trace and isolate system as recommended by the World Health Organisation.
Coronavirus hospital admissions are starting to rise and the daily death numbers are predicted to increase, after Johnson sent millions back to work without time for employers or public transport to prepare. Yet Johnson is pressing ahead with lockdown-easing measures his scientists know will push the death-rate higher.
Yet Johnson says he is ‘very proud’ of what he and his government has ‘achieved’.
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Cue RH bizarrely supporting Johnson by trying to convince the more gullible amongst us that there’s now’t to worry about.
I’m almost sure you’re mistaken about that.
I don’t recall ever seeing an apostrophe in ‘nowt’.
SteveH – You seem to have caught the panicdemic illiteracy virus. My whole point is that I don’t – unlike many here – support the government agenda of ramping up panic levels as apolitical exercise. It really shouldn’t be difficult for those of a genuinely critical mind about the establishment to see why current policy is extremely dangerous as we look to the future.
It’s *you*, and the like-minded who are gullible – as shown by the passing on of Chinse whispers as opposed to looking at the base data – which isn’t *that*difficult to find, despite its absence here.
Part of looking at the wider picture from the point of view of evidence does, indeed show that trying to pin the blame on the government for the progress of the disease, and not implementing lock-up earlier is totally without foundation. That’s not partiality towards Johnson – it’s partiality towards evidence-based science. I see nothing clever in manufacturing fairy tales as a political pastime – it just makes the intended wider politics look stupid.
For a considered analysis of the current situation, the role of policy decisions and an intelligent view of country differences – as well as the lack of evidence for the critical importance of lock-up – I recommend :
https://youtu.be/dUOFeVIrOPg
It’s better than fairy tales and knicker-wetting horror stories.
BTW – that line-graph (above) corresponds to no known data in terms of the relationship of the proportional death rates of the UK and Sweden. The UK has always had a higher proportion of deaths (see Worldometer and Euromomo figures).
RH your condescension and arrogance gets up my nose. How can we possibly be as clever as you!
https://twitter.com/politicsjoe_uk/status/1251458390028664832?s=21…. They did do everything too late! Get on Twitter the more political social media, scientists on there, consultants, GPs, virologists! They are all incandescent about these Mass murders, see link above from April 3rd, when we should have locked down and didn’t! It’s straight from the clowns mouth that he would practice herd immunity!
“How can we possibly be as clever as you!”
Quite easily – just look at the real evidence and argue about it instead of indulging in ad hominem responses in a pretty dim way. It’s you who is behaving in this unintelligent fashion – not me labelling myself as ‘clever’. I expect (against the odds, it seems) an intelligent response in the same manner of looking at the argument and the evidence. What’s condescending about treating you as being capable of arguing back? It’s you who’s talking down to yourself when you resort to this sort of stuff.
So what is your counter-argument; your alternative analysis???
But if you can’t stand the heat – just stay out of the kitchen instead of moaning.
My alternative analysis is that there is a virus in the UK that has killed 60,000 people since March. The Right Wing in Western countries want to say its a media hoax – a Left wing One according to Bolsanro, Trump and others. That analysis did well at first but is now falling very flat. Now you want to argue doctors are lying about recording a person died of Covid. Why would they do that I wonder?
In support of your comment RH, I post a link to a Prof Piers Robinson twitter thread tying some threads together that shows some of the level of propaganda, narrative control and suppression of dissent going on around Covid-19.
https://twitter.com/PiersRobinson1/status/1268869033841119233
I for one have no illusions the far right Johnson regime has any concern for public health or the NHS as a public service except finalising the transition to a privatised, insurance based service. a la Yankeeland… that renowned place of ‘freedom and democracy’.
*like* this comment.
There isn’t it’s already dying out like any seasonal flu, now for the second phase in about 6 months
‘Young People are our Future’………so we can’t criminalise them when they terrorise local shop keepers, or terrorise pedestrians on quad bikes or scramblers & let them indulge in mass gatherings. A dominant ideology originating from broadcast media is that baby boomers ‘have it all’ & younger generations ‘will pay the price’. Covid 19 seemingly does not affect young people……….so join up the dots & the consequences of the MSM hate speech,
I recently challenged a group of ‘young people’ on Formby Beach, to clear up their litter. I was told to hide away isolate & die (a rough translation), because they can do anything they want,,,,,,,,they are the untouchables, as the Police just look on & do nothing but arrest sunbathers.
What a guy! ‘Bonkers boris’ got himself a semi-final spot against the completely bananas brazilian bolsonaro – who’s been ‘flying up the inside rail’ of late.
If our ‘wacky worzel’ can get past that tyrant, then there’s only the psychotic president to beat in the final of the ‘right wing retard of the century’…But he’ll have his work cut out.
…Work? de piffle doesn’t like ‘work’ 😕
So it looks like the public-school plum’ll get beat in extra time…without penalties. And we might have to settle for 3rd place….
What’s up with him in that photo, anyway?
Did someone told him there’d be pudding, followed by a monster truck parade – but there wasn’t?
How many of those fatalities are over 80? as is the median age of deaths from 8 countries beginning with Austria. How many of those fatalities had primary illnesses such as cancer, emphysema, respiratory diseases, heart diseases, lung cancer, Parkinson’s, dementia etc and the thousand and one diseases ( long before Covid-19) which killed mankind since the dawn of time? How many died solely from Covid- 19?
So what’s the answer? You aren’t saying because you have no idea! When people die of injuries in a road accident we don’t say ‘Oh but she was over 70/ had a dodgy heart’ and discontinue the prosecution of the person responsible. The danger of going down this road is to end up in Virus Denial. We will never get figures we can rely on because the Govt is intent on obfuscating the issue as much as they can and unfortunately you are aiding and abetting them.
” No such data exists..” NHS doctors have gone on record that they have given guidelines to record the deaths as Covid-19 when they have never been tested for it. Moreover, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence as well of the unfortunate people, all in their late 80s or early 90s, who died from combinations of cancer, emphysema and dementia with no tests for Covid-19 been carried out, yet, the death Certificates said ” death from Covid-19″.
Now, its interesting that the Lombardy regional health authority in Italy produced statistics and graphs showing precisely what their staff in the hospitals died from in regards to Covid -19.
If The Tories they can spend £93,000,000,000 on corporate welfare, £ 100,000,000+ on nuclear submarines, they can fund the resources to discover the extent of how many died solely from Covid-19, how many died with it and how many didn’t die from it at all.
Plus the differention in ages where the overwhelming majority of deaths are occurring in the over 60s which has been happening regardless of the ” pandemic ” . No surprise there.
As Albert Camus said in his novel ” The plague” ” the only way to fight the plague is with the truth”. An idea which has been jettisoned by the MSM, The State Broadcaster, many leaders of mainstream political parties and the true believers!
But anecdotal tales are not evidence as you surely know?
” So what’s the answer…” I asking simple statistical questions that why they are questions because I have not seen the data as of yet, pumped out by the usual suspects which answers those questions. That is why I am asking them. If you know someone or some organization which does let me know!
I do know that obtaining a diagnosis from ashes is not possible – so how would this army of GP’s arrive at a conclusion? You know otherwise? Please reveal!
Paul
It’s well documented what can be done, FFS only now are they agreeing on masks and people coming into country
In early 80’s they changed the seat belt law, how many people have died because they were wearing a seat belt
That’s the argument we do things for the greater good, next time in 6 months there will be no lockdown and we will protect vulnerable to the best of our ability
Herd immunity will grow, a vaccine may or may not turn up in next 3 years, life goes on
I was in a car crash and saved because I wasn’t wearing a seat belt
The Covid deaths are on top of the average death rate of each month!
brianbotou
How many criminally were in care homes where they dont cover sick pay or were shipped in from hospitals or had no PPE or testing,
We have 6 months to get our act together
The fact that many were pushed into care homes is an indictment of the hysteria and panic whipped up by the right controlled MSM, the now openly controlled Tory propaganda State Broadcaster, supported by dubious figures from the B&MGF controlled Professor Ferguson, Imperial College London, the beneficiaries from them ie the frequently controlled “ experts “, the WHO and those doctors, such as Professor Christian Dosten frequently used on SB, that benefit indirectly to the tune of millions of Euros for testing equipment for Covid-19 which, according to many world class virologists ie Professors Bucharit, Wolfgang Wodrag give false readings.
The care homes many of whom are privately owned are cash machines for the share holders plus CEOs and there are many examples of criminal malpractice plus the very low pay the majority of the care workers receive. A very good friend of mine worked and was a manager of a number of them. He said to me “ I would rather be dead than have to reside in some of them “. That was a number of years before the latest “ pandemic “ was propagandised.
Having spent time in hospitals, I can say with first hand experience there is a constant pressure on hospitals to find beds, particularly since the Tories removed 17,000 beds, which was even before the whipped up frenzied hysteria about the “ pandemic “.
Unfortunately, many people are very gullible to being brainwashed by the corporate media, they have had a century or more to perfect the art and it works, and swallowed the recent lies of Cameron “ we are all in this together “, the AS fabricated campaign against JC, ordinary people voting for a proven liar and total incompetence, plus of course those within the democratic socialist Labour Party who voted for a proven lackey of the establishment, a proven member of an anti democratic right wing US oligarchical controlled organisation, the chief architect of the refusal to accept democracy, and the recipient of funds from Zionist linked financiers.
Yet, they still voted for him and some on this site come to his defence with every opportunity. So what hope is there when people are so blind to the reality.
Well, stop reading MSM, stop watching or listening to State propaganda, read more, research more, look at who are writing the articles and engage the critical thinking skills which everyone posses. I know you have these in abundance Doug so the article is predominantly for those that keep denying there own minds and look for answers through the filtered blinkers of the rich and powerful.
I prefer not to read your hysterical nonsense than cut myself off from real news
It would be an expensive job in terms of cash and manPower. And what would it show? Only what we already know only took well, older people with underlying illness suffer most. You want it to show that some deaths ought to be ‘Coronavirus aggravated by X”? To what end? That the virus isn’t too bad, more like a bad cold? That Bolsanaro is right? Still at a loss as to why you think this so important.
Many a Conspiracy theory is proven right in the end eg CIA played an important part in the assisination of Jack Kennedy and others in the 1960’s but this one that the virus is a hoax to enable greater State control has already fallen flat on its face. We know why they shot Kennedy but it’s very unclear why Govts around the World would join together to create a massive recession and threaten Capitalism itself. Yes of course Govts like ours will always grap the opportunity to extend their powers but that doesn’t mean they invented Coronavirus. There are two fights here which the Deniers conflate; the fight against the virus and the fight against totalitarian Govts.
brianbotou – Or more to the point how many of them would still be alive today and looking forward to enjoying a few more years of life if Covid-19 hadn’t come along and been so woefully managed. The excess death figures indicate that quite a few of them unfortunately died before their time.
I see you are doing your usual tactic of avoiding the questions( they have a question mark after it to indicate it’s a question). However for your benefit , I will state them again. How many deaths were over 80 as is the median age recorded by 8 countries including Austria? . How many had previous primary illnesses such as : cancer, emphysema, heart illnesses, lung cancer, respiratory illnesses, Parkinson’s, dementia etc which have killed mankind ( long before Covid-19) since the dawn of time ? How are many died solely from Covid-19? Now, if you have data regarding those questions I have asked, let’s see it!
Correction, How many died solely from Covid-19?
brianbotou05/06/2020 AT 9:54 AM
How many died solely from Covid-19?
I don’t really care, a far more relevant question is how many would still be alive if they hadn’t caught Covid-19. The high levels of unexpected deaths would indicate quite a few.
brainstorming – If you are that bothered why don’t you put us all out of our misery and just give us the figures you are so obviously anxious to impart.
Of course people 80+ commonly have a number of managed ailments, as do many much younger people. I don’t think many would be stupid enough to contest that so why do you keep banging on about it. The point I was clearly making is that if Covid-19 hadn’t come along and been so badly managed many of these people, of all ages, would still be alive. You seem to be implying that we should just accept these deaths because there are co-morbidity issues.
Have no fear, Bozo has a plan to stamp out Covid — free disinfectant, to be drunk while eating chlorinated chicken…… and a daily dose of Donald Trump!
A TORY OMNISHAMBLES!
A very strange thing to be proud of, being directly responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of your own people. But this is ‘Trump UK,’ where our very own Steve Bannon (AKA Martin Bormann) is valued by our pathetic PM higher than the people he is meant to be there to serve (not kill). To say that this country has lost its way would be the understatement of the decade. And there is no light at the end of what increasingly feels like a very long tunnel.
Martin Borman:
Description
DescriptionMartin Ludwig Bormann was a German Nazi Party official and head of the Nazi Party Chancellery. He gained immense power by using his position as Adolf Hitler’s private secretary to control the flow of information and access to Hitler. Wikipedia
Operation Cygnus which was conducted whilst Jeremy Hunt was the Secretary of State for the NHS Its finding were that the NHS would not have the resources to cope with a pandemic.The Tory party got the spot on and buried the report. Remember the PM’s Greenwich speech at the beginning of this Popularist’s tenure and the pledging of World Class responses.
Yes, he’s keeping his promise re ‘world class responses’ as we can see on the illustration above.
The Labour Party and the TUC have welcomed the launch of a new investigation by the Equality and Human Rights Commission into the impact of coronavirus on ethnic minorities.
The statutory inquiry will see the equalities watchdog use its legal powers to identify actions that will seek to address structural racial inequalities highlighted by the Covid-19 pandemic.
https://labourlist.org/2020/06/labour-welcomes-new-ehrc-inquiry-into-coronavirus-impact-on-ethnic-minorities/
Steve H, as Ronald Reagan said “ their you go again” by using reverse logic again. I ask the questions , you make the accusations and I am expected to provide evidence to either exonerated or prove you wrong. The U.K. justice system doesn’t work that way the accuser must provided the evidence that’s means you by the way.
Now, if you think that “ banging on “ about the fact the majority of the deaths are from people either side of 80 is not of very important relevance I would seriously consider taking some maths lessons.
Furthermore, the very important fact that, with rare exceptions, these fatalities graphs do not differentiate between those with cancer, emphysema, Parkinson’s, heart problems, dementia etc which are predominantly occur in older people as I have personally witnessed in attending hospital.
Moreover, there are no, I have yet to see them, graphs pumped out by the organs of truth which show the number of fatalities caused solely by Covid -19. Have you seen any ?
Lastly, you are using your other tactic of extrapolating things which I have not stated. So just to make sure there is no confusion on your part, I will state them again. How deaths were over the age of 80 as is the median age recorded by 8 countries including Austria? How many had previous primary illnesses such as: cancer, emphysema, heart diseases, respiratory illnesses, Parkinson’s, lung cancer, dementia etc which has killed ( long before Covid19) mankind since the dawn of time ? How many have died solely from Covid-19?
Just, to reiterate if you have data regarding these QUESTIONS LETS SEE IT!
BB: No such data exists because it would require detailed post-mortems of what, 60,000 people? Most will have been already cremated. You can therefore bang on about this with no danger figures will emerge to discredit you! Maybe we should recruit 10,000 youngsters via Serco to perform PM’s? But seriously how would you ensure this data was secured? Firstly is it possible? Please explain how! If you end up with ‘X died of 67% coronavirus + 13% heart failure + 10% COPD’ how does that help anybody?
Exactly. And I am 72, but expect to be here a few more years as I’m fit and healthy, according to BB if I fall ill with Covid I should live through it, many elderly with no underlying conditions die of it? Even if they did, and had heart disease, lung problems,diabetes they probably would still live many years more due to modern medicines, they haven’t, they have had their lives cut short even if it was only for a day, due to the out and out incompetence of this government! It’s mass murder and there is no getting away from it! Bozo wanted herd immunity even before the many deaths as shown here April 3rd? https://twitter.com/politicsjoe_uk/status/1251458390028664832?s=21
He created all the elderly deaths by sending people living in care homes out of hospital with symptoms! Not only does it spread like wildfire in those circumstances among the elderly but the staff had no PPE either and were dropping like flies?
Now whether you think “They would have died anyway” which is disgusting and inflammatory, Their lives were shortened by incompetence and greed which is at worse Murder, at best manslaughter! An absolute abomination and a catastrophic decision by this incompetent government!
You can imagine a little group of money-crunchers in the Treasury checking out that the costs of the virus are balanced by the gain in not having to pay pensions or provide health care. The elderly weren’t so much protected as deliberately exposed – and it was no mistake.
So we are all agreed it is impossible to put accurate figures on how many people died from or with
So what now
brianbotou –
SteveH, unfortunately and sadly, is another success story for this Tory narrative – evidently swallowed uncritically whole.
There are so many fallacies running around that it’s hard to keep up with them, and posting links to good evidence seems to be a waste of space – the religiously inclined just *believe* what is handed down from the ‘network’.
The age gradient of the virus is hardly recondite information – it’s a statement of the bleedin’ obvious that for the vast majority of the younger end of the population with no health issues Covid-19 isn’t particularly serious. A quick glance at the full information of n the Oxford CEBM site is all that’s needed to see that. As is the fact that there is a tailing away of infection. Everywhere. As with most viruses.
For the life of me I can see any point in over-egging the pudding such as we see on this site in the slender hope that blaming it all on the Spivs is a smart move, rather than picking the target.
One ancillary cause of mortality that you haven’t mentioned is that caused by the lock-up : an increasing concern of medics that I speak with, as treatment gets delayed. And that leaves out the additional health problems that don’t result in death.
Of course, the change in the registration rules means that we have no idea of the actual contribution of this one virus to overall mortality. What we do know is that, when corrected for population size, that overall, all-cause mortality ranks only seventh in comparable periods for the last 27 years. Not really a reason for blind panic, even if due, targetted caution is appropriate.
For those not suffering propagandized brain death, the recent interview with Professor Karl Friston is an interesting and intelligent exploration of the situation. I think I prefer his proven mathematical expertise to the usual finger-in-the-wind stuff favoured by the Beeb and Skwawkbox :
https://youtu.be/dUOFeVIrOPg
Well, Pat I am in my sixties with very serious health problems which requires treatment and when I attend the hospital clinic I take note of many of the other patients. The vast majority appears to be over 60 with a very few of a younger age and scarcely any in their 20s judging by appearances.
Now, besides the usual precautions of distancing, masks etc the staff take temperatures to show if someone has the symptoms of it or not and if they do then special procedures have to be followed. In addition, there are a number of patients I have met who have never had it, yet, died, This has been going on since time immemorial. So the question of death is something we all have to face that’s not in dispute.
However, to impose what is in effect totalitarian powers to close down much of the economy, ruin the livelihoods of millions and millions of people because of a “ pandemic “ which affects only a between 0.2-0.46 of the population in actual fatalities is without precedent.
In addition of course many many people have had urgent operations cancelled for example, treatment of cancer or there has been a huge increase in the number of people avoiding A&E because of the fear of the “ pandemic “.
Besides of course all the elderly people living alone how many of those have had their lives shorten because of enforced isolation. As to regards to the care homes, my next door neighbours father died recently, he has cancer, emphysema dementia and was in his early nineties. Yet, the death certificate recorded “ Corona-19”. My partners friends father died in a care home, recently, he was 89 had dementia for a long time, yet again, cause of death “ Corona-19” neither had been proven to have Corona-19. This ties in with recent statements from NHS frontline doctors who because of the change in guidelines they have been signing death certificate as “ Corona-19” without establishing they had it.
As to part the of Tories being greedy and incompetent I support that entirely but look who is going to gain from this, the Banks, Hedge funds very rich and powerful investors plus of course the international pharmaceutical corporations gaining billions from the vaccines just like they did in 2009 from the swine “ pandemic “ that didn’t materialise.
It’s surprising that on a supposedly ‘left wing’ site, the issues mentioned in your last paragraph go begging. As do the issues around the destruction of the economy and its effect on the mental and physical health of a large section of the population.
Just watch the return of ‘austerity’ in new clothes.
*like* this comment.
The issues aren’t mentioned because it doesn’t tie in with narrative of the “ pandemic “ and the draconian measures being taken via forced closures of businesses and forced layoffs to secure us. It is more important to attack the Tories, and they deserve to attacked but for the right reasons such as their disastrous mismanagement of the economy both their increased privatisation of the NHS plus also the dismantling of the social security system than looking at the bigger picture which as Bill, I didn’t do it with Monica, Clinton said “ it’s the economy stupid”.
For sure hospitals have many elderly or near elderly patients like you. Is that really such a surprise? Go to A+E maybe for younger victims of assaults and accidental injury? How many in your ‘group’ have died recently? I’m surprised you know as it’s not widely broadcast! And don’t forget to say how big the group is! As you say hard facts are important.
Paul. 1.08 pm. Well, unless you think my next door neighbour is lying about his father, my partners friend is lying to her about her father and the sworn statement from NHS frontline doctors are lying as well, I submit this is what is known as empirical evidence! ( dictionary meaning of empirical “ based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience..”)
It will be interesting to see if the EHRC enquiry reveals,anything in the way of hard facts..
It will go same way as EHRC investigation into Tory party Islamophobia
They are like BBC completely emasculated
Paul, 2.13 pm well, we know that the median age of deaths occurring from the “ pandemic “ is over 80, we know from many years of records that people over the age 60+ are more susceptible to cancer, lung cancer, dementia, respiratory illnesses, Parkinson’s and a plethora of diseases which has killed people since the dawn of history. Unless, you have evidence to the contrary?
Now, the fact that many otherwise routine operations are being postponed because of the “ pandemic “ can make a difference, for example in someone who has stage 2 cancer progressing to stage 3 or stage 3 progressing to stage 4. cancer. It can also affect people who are awaiting heart operations or hip replacement operations or a myriad of different types of normally routine operations being postponed.
Moreover, you also consider that hospitals have shown the number of people entering A&E has fallen substantially in comparison to previous years. Unless, you have evidence to the contrary.
But to return to my original post. How many people in the fatalities figures quoted in the graph above are 1. Over the age of 80. 2. Have previous primary illnesses such as cancer, emphysema, respiratory illnesses, heart diseases, dementia etc. 3. How many died solely from the Corona-19 virus. If you have the data, let’s see it because it appears that the graphs and figures for fatalities being churned out on a almost daily basis by the Organs of truth aren’t differentiated. You can see this in operation when the Tories are quoting their employment figures, yet, how of those are on short term contracts, working less than 20 hours per week, working 1 hour per week.
To use an old fashioned expression it’s called kidology or pulling the wool over people’s eyes and it seems in many cases to have succeeded !
Your first three paragraphs are all well known facts reported daily, so I’m not sure what your point is?
You end by turning the argument on the head by arguing your opponents should come up with the ‘evidence’ you may rely on!
Paul. 10.03 pm . “ your first three paragraphs are well known facts reported daily so I am not sure what your point is”. Really, have a look at the top of this page displaying the graph and point out where it illustrates the age of the fatalities in the numbers quoted.
Moreover, if you look at many graphs, figures quoted on a continual basis by the majority of the Organs of truth you will will be hard pressed to show where the median age is ( over 80) the record of primary illnesses such as cancer, emphysema, respiratory illnesses, Parkinson’s, lung cancer, dementia etc. So your point does not stand up to scrutiny. I will quote what I have said to your brother in Truth Steve H, “ their you go again using reverse logic, I ask the questions you make the accusations, and I am expected to provide the evidence to exonerate you or prove you wrong. The U.K. justice system doesn’t work that way the accuser has to provide the evidence that means you by the way “. Hope you can grasp that!!
Paul, 1.14 pm. How do you know all the victims of the “ pandemic “ “ were turned to ash” ? please illustrate the data showing thus. Moreover, many people who have cancer, emphysema, respiratory illnesses, Parkinson’s, dementia, lung cancer etc normally have medical records, as I personally know even if you don’t, which state how long, what stage the illnesses has developed, what treatment they have received, what medication they taken, what the medical prognosis is ? Perhaps, if the organs of truth, the usual suspects and the true believers received some answers to those questions, it would go a long way in helping which of the fatalities died from the Corona-19 and which of them didn’t. Hope this helps you on your journey to enlightenment!