Analysis comment

Video: Starmer says wrong to use evidence to hold Salisbury poison terrorists to account – and puts Corbyn in danger

‘Corbyn was wrong’ on Novichok poisonings, says his titular successor – but here’s what Corbyn said. Starmer’s recklessly endangers his predecessor

Keir Starmer has yet again made a mockery of his claims to be ‘forensic’ – and of his legal background. In another apparent attempt to appeal to right-wing little-Englanders, Starmer has said this morning that Jeremy Corbyn was ‘wrong’ ‘in relation to issues like Salisbury’:

Starmer’s comments this morning misrepresent Corbyn on both Salisbury and NATO.

But what Corbyn actually said on the Salisbury Novichok incident and the question of any Russian involvement was measured, statesmanlike and quite clear – and means Starmer has committed yet another ‘self-own’:

Keir Starmer has said he’s against following the evidence and using international relations to bring perpetrators to account – which is kind of odd for a QC. Is that what he meant, or did he – yet again – simply ignore and misrepresent what Corbyn actually said in the hope of appealing to the hard right.

Either way, Starmer’s conduct – and the media’s eager amplification of smears and lies – puts Jeremy Corbyn’s safety at risk of violence by the hard right, as the @ToryFibs Twitter account has pointed out:

Jeremy Corbyn was targeted for murder by at least one right-wing extremist who went on to murder a Muslim father of six in the Finsbury Park Mosque van attack. As Labour leader, Corbyn was punched in the face at the same mosque by another extremist, who was charged with ‘assault by beating’, yet the media more or less ignored it or brushed it off as an ‘egging’. Both attackers linked their hatred to the media’s smear-driven portrayal of Corbyn.

And the reckless endangerment of left-wing figures is not limited to Corbyn. Labour cut loose and smeared Leicester MP Claudia Webbe, despite knowing that her appeal was pending against a magistrate’s conviction for harassment that both the media and the party had persistently misrepresented – and another dangerous right-winger was then arrested for planning to murder her.

Incitement and smears are dangerous. After his encounter with angry protestors only three days ago – and with his legal background – Starmer should and must know better. Yet he said what he said anyway.

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131 comments

  1. Stasi Starmer interview in the Times……..so cosy with his powerful Media chum Rupert Murdoch.

    1. Starmer … SIR Keith, also heaped praise on Rishi Sunak and Sajid Javid with the utterly bizarre claim that they both have “moral courage”. Yessss …

      No surprise though as Keith heaped praise on warmonger liar Blair. Keith is as dishonest as liar Blair creature but desperate to be more deadly. Desperate to feed the military industrial complex is parasite Sir Keith. True Johnson pumps out lies constantly for kicks, but Blair lies deliberately to accumulate vast wealth from everywhere including despots, while at every opportunity calling for even more military interventions.

      Keith (sir) like 45 minute WMD Blair lies in calculated ways. Eg his cold lie to deceive Labour members to grab the leadership. Keith lies by omission too. Eg he’s desperate to claim any CPS association which may impress enough people, but LIES by failing to come clean re the dreadful Establishment networker Jimmy Saville. Mr Starmer apologised in 2013 for the CPS failings. He was in charge. It is laughable to think a case as high profile as Jimmy Saville did not get his PERSONAL “professional” “leadership” input, hence his 2013 apology. EXACTLY like Ms Cressida Dick, after police under HER charge shot point blank the innocent Jean Charles de Menezes as he sat reading a Metro, … AFTER that and more, she was made a “DAME”. After the well connected Jimmy Saville was allowed to escape justice and more, Mr Starmer was made a “SIR”.

      As per Airmiles Andy, taking Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislane Maxwell to EVERY SINGLE ROYAL HAUNT, we are meant to believe his relatives had no idea what was going on Ditto, Jimmy Saville very friendly to Thatcher, Prince Charles, top police officers, BBC managers and … HOSPITAL & care home managers … we are asked to believe that when Saville’s SEVERAL cases came before the then Mr Starmer, he left the investigations to his underlings… yessss … Exactly like DAME Dick, plain Keith was made a “SIR” for services rendered.

      The country is in a poor state with Johnson but he actually has few friends in the Blue Tory nest & Establishment. His support WAS and remains Tory grassroots. But, BE WARNED!!! SIR Keith is bad, Bad, BAD news. Much more dangerous than war criminal WMD Blair. Keith will promptly resume Blair’s foreign invasions and bloodshed of more millions. Easily predictable. Predicted. AHEAD of the curve right here on Skwawkbox.org Keith is an horror desperate to get even worse.
      He will.
      🪡🩸⚪️🪡🩸⚪️🪡🩸⚪️

      1. Well done. Look forward to reading the usual comebacks and messages of support for Headroom etc.

      2. CONFIRMED: 2day it’s being reiterated; Sadiq Khan’s wind THREE days ago; Dame Dick had DAYS to prove she could end her long record of DEADLY catastrophic failures under her watch eg Jean Charles de Menezes murdered at point blank at Stockwell Tube.

        IMMEDIATELY … less than ten minutes, Dick’s Met police force and the media … BBC & LBC pumped out slanders about de Menezes, e.g. he jumped over the ticket barrier. Facts are, the young man was sitting blissfully reading The Metro news paper.

        The recent Inquiry into Axe in the head Morgan, stated that Cressida Dick obstructed their investigations. And, under her watch, the Met is “INSTITUTIONALLY CORRUPT”.

        I judge them as grossly misogynistic, perverted, “institutionally racist” & “institutionally corrupt” with ZERO care for the harm and pain they cause.

        Despite too many other fatal and corrupt actions over a decade, only THREE weeks ago, Slow Sadiq admitted to chatting with Dick, who claims Khan said:

        “I have NEVER had MORE CONFIDENCE in the force”.

        1️⃣ – How has Dick (Dame) changed since three weeks ago to date❓

        2️⃣ – Which of the above DEADLY, and other disasters, inspired confidence in Dick to Khan❓❓

        3️⃣ – What exactly is Khan’s reasoning to endorse and enable someone who was dismissed or asked to step down after her operation murdered an innocent man, then only last year was officially found to be in charge of “institutional corruption”❓❓❓
        🟨♒️📌🟨♒️📌🟨♒️📌

      3. DAME DICK ??? GONE
        🎉‼🌟️🎉‼🌟️🎉‼️🌟
        Let’s c what Friday delivers
        😉😉😉

    2. p.s. Sadiq Khan is not to be trusted either. In public he pretends being displeased č DAME Dick’s disastrous scandal laden Metropolitan Police. Well, today Dick exposed Khan. Sadiq Khan allegedly told the dame:

      “never had more confidence in the force”.

      On this Dick, (made a Dame by Theresa May), may not be lying. Imagine that!!! The world is well off its axis with the shower of disreputable dishonourable DISGRACEFUL occupants of public office.
      😨🟥😨🟥😨🟥

      1. windchime – Sadiq Khan allegedly told the dame: – “never had more confidence in the force”.

        As the saying goes ‘a week is a long time in politics’ and this was said 3 weeks ago.

      2. EVEN 3 weeks ago, a multitude of victims of Dame Dick’s ‘leadership’ were known to Sadiq Khan. Eg: Morgan found axe in his head, bloodied in a carpark. Khan had a duty to read the recent report which found Dick ACTIVELY hindered investigations and declared her Met “INSTITUTIONALLY CORRUPT”.

        Sadiq Khan therefore proves himself slow & ignorant to the point of being a danger to public office as much as “Knife Jeremy in the front” bragging brute Jessica Phillips, swearing drunk bullying thuggish lout Neil Coyle, Hodge “F*****g antisemite” shrieker, WMD Blair of 45 minutes and of course Starmer & Dick now SIR & DAME.
        🟨♒️🟨♒️🟨♒️

    3. DICK FINALLY GONE🎉🎉🎉
      And it’s still Thursday🌟🌟🌟
      Let’s see what Friday brings!!!

      1. I agree Carlene Edmonds. Social & political CHANGE often only happens step by steady DETERMINED step. Don’t lose heart. Keep bright despite the long journey. Never,
        NEVER give up
        💐💐💐

      2. One never knows one of your candidates might even manage to retain their deposit at the next GE.

  2. The paradox of UK’s foreign policy: the politicians bought and paid for by Russian dirty money are the ones banging on about the Russian threat and engage in hard talk (and are also against green measures, increasing our dependence on Russian gas…)

    So, is Starmer also bough and paid for by Russia?

      1. MY QUESTION to Sadiq Khan his SIR Keith Starmer and Shadow Home Office minster who BOTH endorsed Khan, and DAME Dick only days ago… last week to be exact.🚾❓⚠️🚾❓⚠️🚾❓⚠️

        What exactly has changed THREE weeks ago to date
        ❓⚠️❓⚠️❓⚠️

      2. Absolutely! All this Russophobia could lead to war in Europe, which could quickly escalate to a nuclear conflict.

        Points to be bourne in mind,

        1. So far, Russia has done absolutely nothing except conduct military manouevres within its own borders;
        2. Nato has been expansionist since its inception.
        3. Russians have long memories; they remember how their country was invaded by Nazi Germany. Since then they have desired a ‘cordon sanitaire’ around their borders. Under the circumstances, the demand that Ukraine, which has a border with Russia and was part of the Soviet Union, does not join NATO is not unreasonable.
        4. Belligerent posturing by NATO and Uncle Sam does nothing to alleviate Russian fears. They may well find NATO build up in Poland and other nearby countries very threatening..
        5. Russians are more likely to become belligerent in return if NATO, etc, keep waving sticks at them.
        6. Ukraine is not an undivided nation; a considerable portion of its people are ethnic Russians, speaking Russian and concentrated in within a particular territory.
        7. Uncle Sam, in his usual interfering way, was responsible for deposing what he saw as a ‘pro-Russian’ government, and installing what can only be termed a fascist regime. As someone sagely remarked in another blog – if war breaks out in Europe, “…this time, the UK will be fighting on the side of the Nazis, not against them”.

        I am not an apologist for Russia or Putin. The oligarchs are very unpleasant indeed. However, since WW2 Russia has evinced an essentially defensive stance. It has not invaded neighbouring territory and has pursued a pragmatic strategy of co-existence with other states..Uncle Sam, on the other hand has been constantly engaged in invasions of other people’s territory at the behest of its military-industrial complex. Since the end of WW2 it has constantly fomented wars in various parts of the world. Unfortunately, the UK has been content to be its poodle. This must change if world peace is to be preserved. However, there is not much hope of that while Johnson is in charge (or Starmer for that matter). And as for the Truss creature, what on earth possessed him to send her to Moscow? Does he WANT to start WW3?

        We can only hope for the best outcome to all this. The problem is that, at least on the NATO side, there are no adults in the room.

      3. Excellent summary, Redveg and I think you have a point regarding Truss. Sending such an obvious incompetent to meet a heavyweight diplomat like Lavrov can only be seen as a calculated insult. And so was it taken. As the news footage showed, he was only just about keeping his cool!

        But Liz Truss is a dangerous liability who needs removing PDQ. Lord preserve us!

      4. Admittedly she doesn’t inspire much confidence but I’m struggling to accept that Lavrov is so thin skinned.

      5. He isn’t, but I could see why his patience with NATO states’ arrogant attitude towards Russia is just about worn out.

      6. timfrom – You profess to be a democratic socialist but you support an authoritarian dictator like Putin and his corrupt regime.

      7. We are in no position to lecture others on corruption, authoritarianism or anything else. My point is, if we don’t enter negotiations showing a basic level of respect for the other side (whatever we might consider their crimes to be) we are acting insincerely and in bad faith. No good ever came from talking down to people and getting their backs up from the get-go.

    1. Weird logic here: Starmer is promoting NATO in its aggressions against Russia, which is protesting. And You suggest that Starmer is acting as Russia’s agent. This is idle and dangerous warmongering.

      Starmer is an agent of the US ruling class which is desperately trying to fend off the challenge to its “Full Spectrum Domination” (supported by Starmer, Blair, Johnson and Murdoch) by Russia and China, supported by Iran and everyone else who is sick and tired of being ordered around by Mad Uncle Sam.

      This has been a position shared by the left in Labour since the 1940s- opposition to Britain’s poodle like loyalty to Washington. Multipolarity began with the ‘Bevanites’.
      As for the CIA nonsense about Russia interfering in British politics- give us a break! British politics has been dominated by the US Embassy since the mid forties. And that is who Starmer (like Blair, Kinnock and Gaitskell before him) is working for, the only difference is that he doesn’t pretend otherwise.

    2. Don’t be ludicrous. You really shouldn’t spout off about subjects you don’t understand. Why don’t you go back to smearing Canadian truckers?

    3. Ben Lapointe, follow the money. Money is all for that lot. “The few” buyers & sellers FOR “the few”, will be unscathed by the bombs & bloodshed… NB sudden bursting wealth of Weapons of Mass Destruction Anthony Blair illegal warmonger & advisor to despots.

      “The many” pay the price.
      🩸💧🩸💧🩸💧

      1. Hes from Quebec signpostwinchimes….might be a touch of cheese head as well…not that I have a problem with French or German in Wisconsin just the cheese and garlick

  3. Anyone got access to the text of the Times report [without having to pay Murdoch for it]?
    I would like to have a chance to compare what Starmer said with reality.

    1. Which part of the article would you like to see, it is too long to reproduce in full. Did you know that you can sign up for access to a limited number of free articles per month

      1. The problem is that, although I can find the article, it looks like it’s on microfiche, and I can find no way of “zooming in” on it.

      2. goldbach use their free trial. There are other free & legal ways eg your local library should offer online reading with your library card. Not diff to setup and offers an EXTREMELY … almost infinite publications eg via various apps Libby, Borrow Book and Press Reader. Press Reader used to offer free access if connected via certain venues, but i suspect for most readers here, use your local eLibrary.

        Let me know how u get on.
        💐📕💐📕💐📕

      3. Thanks for all that info, signpost. I wish that I had known that years ago. Less grey hairs and broken nails. Pip pip

      4. No, not this time either. I’ll have to get the help of a young relative again.
        Thanks for the link though.

      5. goodbach, see above. could cut and paste but would put SB and me at risk re infringing copyright. 📕💐📕💐📕💐

      1. Well Channel 4 should check again – for their analysis is poor. Corbyn
        quoted the Science*** – ie the statement from Porton Down. This did NOT
        say that Russia definitely was responsible but was carefully worded in
        terms of Science. When Johnson claimed he rang their Director and
        was told that “Russia was responsible” Johnsons statement was
        indignantly denied by the organisation and quoted the Science.

        What he really wanted though – and McDonnell too – was to impose
        financial sanctions on oligarchs who use London to launder their
        dirty money – and also donate to the Tony Party

        May subsequently challenged Putin as to an explanation – of course
        none was made available and so called “sanctions” were imposed
        which Corbyn supported. So what was done – effectively nothing
        and they had no effect for as the Russians proved in their poisoning
        of the Russian Opposition then still had the poison and were prepared
        to use it.

        Not only that when Corbyn tried to make sure that this never
        happened again .. by initiating OPCW rules he was accused of
        “helping” the Russians.

      2. Well duh! Channel 4 news factcheck – the last resort of the clueless…

      3. Dave thanks for this.
        So 10 days after a terrible crime the Govt and some opposition MPs seemed absolutely certain of the perpetrators.
        For those who support critical thinking and rigorous investigations whilst discounting no possibility, many questions at that time still remained unanswered.
        A concern was are some believing just what they want to believe and what perhaps suits their political ends?
        JC was only holding up an honourable tradition, it is NO crime wanting to be as certain as possible even if you may not actually favour the accused – justice is not a race it is considered.
        Johnson lately perhaps in desperation to save his job seems to be dredging up old cases to attack opponents and perhaps spinning them to suit his political agenda?
        And he seems to be using someone politically he perhaps can’t stand (JC) to get at another (KS) who he sees for now as his main electoral threat (in the absence of a great new left wing democratic socialist party) and anyway perhaps BJ believes his Neo-Liberals can manage this capitalism better than the Right Wing Labour Neo-Liberals?
        The Right Wing attacks on critical thinking it could be argued continue and perhaps critical thought is dangerous to the powerful and it must be trashed?

      4. You got it, Bazza! To quote the great Spanish artist Francisco Goya, “The sleep of reason produces monsters”…

  4. Keir Starmer doesn’t care about the hurt and reputational damage inflicted on sincere Jewish socialists who were active in the party before he was born, on good decent people who do not believe Zionism is the right solution in Israel/Palestine. He does not care about the unemployed sick or disabled facing benefit sanctions and reduced to destitution. He does not care about the homeless living a life without dignity on the streets. Why do you think he would care about Jeremy Skwawkbox ?

  5. The Saliisbury incident was quite intersting. First of all we apparently had a vaulable double agent in our midst, without ven having a cheap video camera trained on his house. 24/7. we then had the incident and within a coupl of hours max we had Mrs May telling the world that the Russians had done it, which rathe rsuggested that our scurity sevices had full knowledge of what was going on… And then JC asking for evidence. I mean who on earth would ask to se evidence before making (unfounded) allegations? Clearly not a former DPP …. which is more worrying than anything JOhnson has evre said about him….

    The entire episode stinks.

    1. Well, at least we now have the full story from Skripal and his daughter… oh.

      1. Why on earth would you expect to have the full story about the Skripals

  6. It is particularly egregious given his own experience a few days ago. He tells The Guardian he “.. blames PM’s Savile slur for inciting mob that accosted him”. Is he so lacking in self awareness or just like Johnson, when you think he can’t sink any lower manages to do so.

    Did anyone see a piece earlier today in The Guardian (I know, I know but I do learn useful stuff from comments BTL) about a large rise in anti-semitism linking it I think to the Palestine cause? I’ve been back just now to read it and it seems to have vanished….

    1. I thought I herd quite a few of the crowd asking him about the Starmer Labour Party, and why he had abandoned working people, which didn’t seem to have much to do with anything JOhnson had said. There are two possibilities … 1. I am completely wrong, or 2. The MSM and the Labour Party are trying to rewrite “truth.”

      1. The most prominent voice was asking the Leader of the Opposition why he wasn’t doing any opposing. Didn’t hear a thing about Savile.

      2. JoeRobson
        1. u r not even a tiny bit “wrong”.
        2. U r totally correct. The MSM rewrites “truth”.
        📌💰📌💰📌💰

      3. Can’t remember which news it was on, but someone did say something about Saville. You can’t hear it on the original, so, either the broadcaster fiddled with the audio, OR, they added it in.

        Either way what I heard was mainly about no opposition and Julian Assange.

      4. The BEEB know all about fiddling which brings us back to…

    2. Julia – it was reported on the R4 news program this morning –
      in fact it headed one of the news summaries – possibly
      7am? It emphasised that confidence could be placed
      in the findings of this report – which were of actual
      incidents.

  7. Mr Starmer
    Boris Johnson(Foreign Secretary) told the House Of Commons that someone from Porton Down had told him that it was the Russians. There was no evidence and this was a Trump technique of fabricating stories. Details only emerged 20 days+ after evidence was sent to a Dutch Laboratory which did confirm its Novichok origin.
    Most of the Labour Party chose to support the condemnation of Russia-like another incident (BLAIR WMD), where only a few Labour members including Jeremy Corbyn dissented. Corbyn was on the right side of history then and again he was right side of history again, because they wanted evidence..
    The western powers also went along with the vote in parliament and must have felt very uncomfortable colluding with the initial false report.

    Hegemony rules

  8. i wonder where the two Russians are now? In protective custody? Why have they never been allowed to give their version of events? Are they still alive?

    1. Paul – But we have heard their side of the story. Don’t you remember their rather unconvincing appearances on TV trying to convince us that the were just visiting the beautiful Salisbury Cathedral

      1. Steve H you are confused the two Russian double agents fell asleep on a bench after the ever popular liquid lunch.They were whisked away a week later after being forced to blame Russia and have never been seen again.

      2. Steve, that’s as may be, but it is still true that the Skripals have vanished into thin air. It’s inconceivable that journalist would not have tracked them down and snapped photos of them if there was a shred of truth in the official narrative, even if they chose never to speak to journalists.

        But since that official narrative is that the two Russians arrived in Salisbury after 11.00 am according to the CCTV footage at the station, and smeared Novichok on the Skripals’ door before they left the house two hours previously, you would have to have completely abandoned your critical thinking skills to believe we were being told the truth.

        I have no idea what really happened. The Russians were clearly agents. But whatever happened, it sure as hell was not what the Tories told us and Starmer wants to perpetuate.

      3. I would be surprised if they hadn’t vanished into thin air.

      4. So weve now got four Russian spys with two double agents…confused 😕you will be after listening to Steve H Hall centrist Dad davidh,sh..Skriples skiples….lets call the whole thing off…!.

      5. Don’t forget their handler, lived just around the corner. Then there’s the DS who was poisoned when they weren’t in the house- distance tailing, maybe- but I am sure that he’s OK. Must have had access to wet wipes. Lastly, the one who could tell us all was starved to death by our security forces. Yes, the guinea pig. Trust them, I do.

  9. But, but, but boris said keef was responsible for not prosecuting savile – and that put keef in mortal danger of being heckled; So it MUST be alright for keef to deliberately twist Corbyn’s words even if it means death threats and further actual physical assaults.

  10. Corbyn quoted the scientific evidence from Porton Down
    in Parliament and was booed by the Tories so it was not
    heard clearly and never appeared in Hansard. However
    I heard it – and in the middle of it he said “This is serious”.

    He also asked for financial penalties on Oligarchs –
    something the US is trying to encourage us to do –
    and Johnson has been reluctant about. Corbyn
    reminded us that same Russian Oligarchs financially
    supported the Tories.

    Boris Johnson then claimed that he had spoken to the
    head of those analysing the substance and they stated
    it was from Russia – and the scientists indignantly denied it
    and made the same statement as Corbyn.

    Corbyn subsequently quoted one of the requirements of
    the OPCW charter – that after a chemical attack the accused
    must be involved in the subsequent investigation .. and was
    accused of speaking up for Russia.

    In fact the Tories did nothing at all after the
    Salisbury incident – except chuck out a few diplomats ..
    Proof that it had no effect whatsoever – the Russians still
    had it and were prepared to use it.

    The Russian Deputy Opposition leader – currently in Germany –
    encouraged the imposition of personal financial sanctions on
    Putin and his oligarch mates so that Putin could not make
    propaganda about it.

      1. …with their 1,000-odd membership. If those dicks are the real opposition, we’re all fucked!

      2. I have just read your comment. Are you unaware of the size of the cpr. Their Moscow celebrations are huge on May day. 1000 members, only the Yanks would believe that. Phone the embassy or the Russian Party itself. 1000 members.

      3. Yes he was but we’ve cleared it up. I don’t need Wikipedia. I stood with Hicks and Chater but after the purges I refused to take part in a vanity project. Look, here I am. Good luck to you and yours.

      4. alex – Bully for you, here’s a couple of gold stars. ⭐⭐

      5. See how nice it feels to be nice. Anyone else would reply as an ignorant vainglorious person. Not you. You are above such things. Manners make the a man. Why only two stars?

      6. Alex, yes, sorry for the confusion. (Thanks, Steve) Russia’s a whole different ball game. I was referring to OUR Communist party cos I thought you were! Probably should’ve read your comment more carefully…

      7. Timfrom, easily done. I have never taken you for a clown. I thought that perhaps you, unusually, accepted the Nalvelny, Kasparov, loto’s in Russia scam. Best to you and yours.

    1. This is what Jeremy said in Parliament on 31/01/22

      “Any war on the border between Ukraine and Russia will be utterly disastrous for the people of Ukraine, the people of Russia and the future of peace throughout the whole continent of Europe. When the Foreign Secretary travels to Moscow to have discussions with the Russian Government, I hope that she will be able to reassert the agreements reached in the 1990s that recognised Ukrainian independence, but will she also try to take the whole thing a stage further with a new disarmament agreement with Russia, revisiting the previous agreements? Will she ensure that the British state is represented at the Vienna convention on nuclear weapons in the middle of March, as a way to take forward the de-escalation of stress and threats and thereby to wind down the tensions on the border? If we carry on building up massive numbers of troops on both sides of the border, something awful is going to happen and it will be very hard to get out of it.

      1. What was the reply to Jeremy’s question Steve H? I have tried to access it myself but can’t seem to find it

      2. Smartboy – The reply came from Elizabeth Truss

        Let us be clear: it is the Russian regime that has amassed the tanks and troops on the Ukrainian border. It is the Russian regime that has escalated aggression, and not just towards Ukraine but through Belarus and in the western Balkans. It is the Russian regime that needs to step back before it ends up entering into what could be—I agree with the right hon. Gentleman on this point—a very serious quagmire, with appalling consequences for the people of both Ukraine and Russia. That is the point that I will make when I travel to Moscow in the next fortnight.

        You can read the debate here
        https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2022-01-31/debates/8FE6C779-7A6B-430E-BA78-715C47D48FBF/RussiaSanctions#contribution-AF3BE693-8515-41F1-B2C5-A7A739C8C7E9

      3. Thanks for the info Steve H. The answer was from Liz Truss inadequate, a typical Tory response – just a lot of bluster really – and did not address the points Jeremy raised.

    2. More weird logic: the oligarchs in Russia, from Bill Browder to Khodorkovsky, hate Putin for making them pay taxes. The “Opposition leaders” are agents of imperialism, who want a return to the Free Market chaos of the 90s. Putin is no socialist but he knows that to keep his country from being broken up into bite sized pieces and devoured by the Americans he has to re-establish decent living standards for the people. And that means taxing the rich and paying the workers (two things that didn’t happen under Yeltsin.)
      Its the media and the spooks who are spreading lies about Novichok and Putin the murderer- Corbyn was right: where is the evidence from Salisbury? Come to think of it where are the Skripals? The whole affair is a stitch up of massive proportions, corrupting the NHS, the media, the Coroners Courts, everything it touches.

      1. Skripals probably sleeping off the ever popular liquid lunch in a Caribbean bolt hole or similar after disappearing with a good pension from the spooks in Britain.

      2. Joseph

        Skripals probably sleeping with the fishes, more like!

      3. Or having a dirt bath with the guinea pigs. Could be peeling an orange on a beach somewhere.

      4. The thing I don’t understand is why our politicos cant wait to join the line to be slapped. There again some people pay for that or don’t.

  11. I’d like the UK to regain its sovereignty the from the US, that means quitting NATO. And I think the secret US-UK agreement and the obligations therein could be viewed as treasonous. The US treats the UK and Germany like its colonies.

    Biden told new German Chancellor the other day that they, the US , will stop the Russia – German Nord Stream 2 pipeline. Some US politicians are even talking about the US attacking it and blowing it up!

    The US is happy for the same Russian gas to flow through Ukraine because the govt there in Kyiv gets millions in transit fees each year. The US forced Germany’s govt to agree to reimburse Kyiv to the tune of $2bn for lost transit fees if NS 2 goes on stream. NS2 becoming operational would lower wholesale gas prices considerably, lowering UK bills!

    Basically Europe and UK energy consumers are being held to ransom by the US’s geoplotical games with Russia.

    The ‘special relationship’ tends to be one way. For Europeans propping up US global hegemony while at the same time protecting European security are mutually incompatible aims.

  12. If I ever get to read the Times article, I will comment on what Starmer said.
    However, I have some comments/questions regarding the Salisbury/Novichok incident.
    1. The policeman who was hospitalised with Novichok poisoning had been wearing a protective suit when he attended Mr Skripal’s house and touched the doorknob. The suit proved not to be effective enough to stop him being (relatively seriously) affected. Why, then, were the two Russians able to spray Novichok on Mr Skripal’s doorknob without being affected, when they clearly were not carrying anything that could have contained protective equipment when they were photographed in Salisbury?
    2. Craig Murray was UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan when it became independent. The Soviet Novichok lab was in Uzbekistan. Murray reports that the Uzbeks failed to provide any security for the site for 2 years until the decommissioning teams arrived from the UK and the US. He also reports that the formula for manufacturing Novichok appeared on the internet during that 2 year period.
    3. Murray interviewed a former Mossad agent whom he had previously met and who had retired and become an investigative journalist. He asked his contact who he thought was responsible for the attack. The reply was “Certainly not the FIS.” He said that the Russians were as “good” as the Israelis and that, if they’d wanted to kill Skipal, he would be dead. He gave multiple examples of what he thought was a shambolic operation, if indeed the 2 Russians were part of an attack, and was confident that the FIS wouldn’t have been shambolic.
    4.Murray further indicated that, though Novichok is easy to manufacture, it is extremely difficult to transport. Anyone trying to do so would run a significant risk of poisoning themselves before they could poison anyone else.
    5. The official narrative is that Dawn Sturgess died and Charley Rowley became ill because they had come into contact with a discarded bottle of Novichok that had been used to poison the Skripals. Mr Rowley said, in an interview after he came out of hospital, that he had found the package, removed the cellophane wrapping and given the box containing the bottle to Ms Sturgess. The BBC dramatisation also shows this. How could the 2 Russians have used that bottle to poison the Skripals if the package had not been opened until Mr Rowley opened it?
    6. Mr Skripal’s good friend in Salisbury (who’s name I forget) said that Mr Skripal often went away for periods of time and he never knew where he went. The Spanish government had reported that Mr Skripal visited Spain on 4 occasions in the weeks before the attack because he was helping the Spanish secret services with their investigations into Russian Mafia operations. Was a possible mafia connection ever followed up?
    7. Mr Skripal was recruited, as a British spy, by Pablo Miller (based at the British embassy in Madrid), and his “handler” for the security services was Christopher Steele. At the time of the Salisbury incident these two both lived very close to Mr Skipal. Coincidence? [Steele was also noted for being the author of the dodgy “Russian hacking of the DNC computers” dossier and, unless I am mistaken, a US investigation would “like to speak to him”].
    There are lots of questions but precious few answers, only “assurances” that “we know” it was the Russians wot dun it.
    Mr Corbyn was quite correct in wanting to see evidence.

    1. No one could read Murray’s 10 questions and not think the whole thing was as Trump described it ‘Spy games’.

      Not a single person can tell you when the Skripals are meant to have touched this door. The train with the Russians arrived around 11.45 iirc, and it would take 20 minutes to walk to Skripal’s house i.e. midday. The Skripals car is not pictured anywhere on CCTV returning that day and both Skripals turned their phones completely off that morning to prevent tracking.

      The first person on the scene when the Skripals fell ill was Colonel Alison McCourt, chief nursing officer in the British Army, who just happened to be passing at that exact moment.

    2. Don’t worry though, the case has been handed to the London Met who took it off the Salisbury force.

      You can trust there’ll be no cover-up with Cressida Dick in charge, or Cressie, as Johnson calls his old university friend.

      Ian Cobain tweeted:

      You’ll find this one interesting. The head of Scotland Yard, Cressida Dick, left policing for a couple of years from 2015. She joined MI6. This was at a time when Scotland Yard detectives were investigating MI6 involvement in rendition, including the kidnap of entire families

    3. Thanks Goldbach. I didn’t know that the very credible Mr Steele was involved.

  13. Paul Mason again wrapping Neocon agendas in Leftist arguments. He argues here(link below) for the UK defence budget needs to rise from 2% to 5% of GDP.

    Despise Paul Mason as much as Starmer. Manufacturing more weapons is one thing, but weapons have to be used , bombs have to be dropped, missiles fired, otherwise you have a inventory surplus. Basically the military industrial complex he wants to feed is like reactor it needs more wars , you have to feed it more and more. It’s a terrible mess, one that he US has gotten itself into with its trillion dollar yearly defence budget. While bridges fall down and other infrastructure like schools rot and many don’t even have basic healthcare provision.

    https://futuresofwork.co.uk/2022/02/10/for-a-new-political-economy-of-defence/

  14. So the Blair Wannabe pins his tail to the NATO donkey…..Who would have thought?

    Then along comes the Chief Turd Polisher……Desperately trying to disguise the smell.

    God, so damn predictable.

  15. The attack on Skripal did tremendous damage to Corbyn. My suspicion is that it was a ‘false flag’ operation deliberately staged for this purpose after other attacks on Corbyn had failed and when he was riding high after the strong performance in the 2017 general election.

    It seems unlikely to me that the two Russian agents would spray deadly nerve agent, especially outside, whilst clearly not wearing protective clothing. And nor have any witnesses come forward to put them in Skripal’s Road let alone outside his house. We do not really know why they were in Salisbury.

    If the novichok had deteriorated whilst on Skripal’s door handle, would we not expect assassination planners to be alert to this possibility?

    Why not just shoot him? Why wait almost 8 years to kill him and to try to do so just before Russia was due to host the World Cup finals?

    I think that Skripal may have been attacked with a chemical incapacitant such as B Z. It could then be plausibly claimed that he had been attacked with deadly novichok and that the Russians were behind it.
    I think we are entitled to be deeply sceptical about this episode and to consider alternative possibilities. We do not know how far some people would go to to stop Corbyn.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Quinuclidinyl_benzilate

    “BZ is odorless, has a bitter taste, and is nonirritating with delayed symptoms several hours after contact.”

    1. Tony

      Mark Urban on BBC 2’s Newsnight in his report, explained that UK authorities had known in the months prior of the growing threat to Skripal.

      What he didn’t explain though is, why if that was the case, Skripal lived there under his real name and had no CCTV , nor did the other houses? Strange, no?

      It’s my own view they never went home after goimng out that morning (seen on CCTV) never touched the door and probably ingested some GHB (Gamma-hydroxybutyrate) in a drink in Zizzi’s , GHB, known as the date-rape is a clear liquid that takes about 10 – 20 minutes to kick in and can leave someone unconscious but otherwise ok. Skripal was reportedly getting agitated and wanted to leave.

      1. According to reports online, Colonel Alison McCourt’s team took over the treatment of the Skripals from the medics.

      2. Another interesting piece of the jigsaw relates to Mark Urban. Before he became a “journalist” he was in the army and made a couple of good friends there. They were called Pablo Miller and Christopher Steele.
        Urban had met Skripal a few times during the weeks before the Incident because he was writing a book and Skripal was having some input. After the incident, Urban stopped work on the book and, despite being asked what the book was intended to be about, never revealed the proposed subject matter.

      3. I guess it’ll remain a mystery, because the Skripals have vanished like Keyser Söze.

        With the British press happy to pretend they never existed.

      4. goldbach

        The fact people get very ,very angry if the official narrative questioned, is a bit like the Savile reaction. They doth protest too much.

        If it’s all above board and those commenting are just ‘conspiracy theorists’ why not laugh at them, why get so angry?

        I mean, if someone says the earth is flat or the moon made of cheese, they’d be laughed at, amirite? The fact people like Craig Murray are bitterly attacked by establishment media for seeking answers to basic questions speaks for itself.

      5. Andy & Goldbach

        You’re both on top form today with the Skripal stuff. All very pertinent points that demand answers. Nice one!

  16. Jeremy Corbyn asked to see hard evidence, rather than believe the innuendo, the Tories were relying on.

    A, wholly, reasonable position to take, for any sane person, let alone the Leader of HM’s Opposition.

    Being a ‘Human Rights’ lawyer, I would have expected Starmer to adopt a similar position, rather than use it as a club to bludgeon his predecessor with.

    A cheap piece of theatre. A new low in this non-politician’s career.

    He continues on a downward trajectory, in what’s left of my esteem – which was minimal to begin with. Hopefully, we will see his final demise, very soon.

    He, now, nauseates me!

  17. alexanderscottish, so good, worth saying twice :

    “Oligarchy has no flags or borders”
    🔔🔊🔺🔔🔊🔺🔔🔊🔺

  18. Starmers position on Russia is as bad as Johnson’s, his new Foreign Secretary is embarrassing everybody, this is taken from a comment on the saker blog…

    The British Foreign Secretary told the Russian Foreign Minister about the need to withdraw Russian armed forces from the Ukrainian border. Sergey Lavrov replied that the military is on the territory of their country. Liz Truss repeated that they should be set aside. To this, the Russian minister again objected that the military does not violate anything, since they have the right to conduct any maneuvers on the territory of the Russian Federation.

    After that, he himself addressed a question to his British counterpart: “You do recognize Russia’s sovereignty over the Rostov and Voronezh regions, don’t you?”

    “The UK will never recognize Russia’s sovereignty over these regions,” the Foreign Minister said after a short pause.

    British Ambassador to the Russian Federation Deborah Bonnert had to intervene in the situation, who delicately explained to Ms. Truss that we are really talking about the Russian regions.
    Such are the talents of the UK government officials, it would be understandable if Putin and Lavrov simply ignored the vassals of the US.

    1. Dear God, the Truss cretin outdoes herself again! Not content with (only a few days ago) not knowing that the Baltic States and the Black Sea are hundreds of miles apart, she now comes out with this weapons-grade drivel.

      You really couldn’t find a more inadequate Foreign Secretary if you tried. One has to ask what motivated her appointment…

    2. Brilliant Harry, perhaps this needs putting on BBC comments etc perhaps we could laugh the Tories out of power!
      I did say Russia was carrying out drills in its own country!

  19. “Keir Starmer writes: “the likes of the Stop the War coalition are not benign voices for peace. At best they are naive; at worst they actively give succour to authoritarian leaders who directly threaten democracies”:

    Keith on top form for the Trilateral Commission members today…

    Fuck it yeah, let’s have WW3…..My Raytheon shares are going down.

    1. A thoroughly dishonest speech by Starmer.

      Also, he quotes Denis Healey but fails to mention that Healey opposed NATO expansion and Trident replacement.

  20. Just played the video link from skwawkie in
    the piece.

    A very good summary of Corbyns position –
    and May’s for that matter when she challenged
    Putin. His statement was supported by the
    stemming from Porton Down.

    He also mentions the Convention – something
    never fully implemented by anyone so far as
    we know

  21. Just who is provoking a war, Could it be the US Neo cons and their vassals in Europe expanding NATO to Russia’s border then installing nuclear weapons 5 minutes flying time to Moscow?
    The West use the word ‘containment’ in relation to Russia and China this is a euphemism for stopping the growth of Russia and China, in other words their economies have to be economically sanctioned and physically surrounded by western forces until they cry ‘Uncle’. Any country with any self respect could not agree with such a humiliating defeat.
    If Starmer continues with this policy we will all get bloody noses and would deserve to.

    1. What terrifies Putin is being surrounded by democratic states with successful economies and the Russian people thinking we want that too.

      1. SteveH
        Democratic states with successful economies,
        Really
        Start with how much a Trillion is, multiply by 30 just to get US government debt, never mind corporate or personal
        Then explain the assassination of JFK
        When you are able to fill in whats occurred in 60 years in between then you might like to revisit that statement

      2. Doug – You’re the one desperately trying to prop up a thug, I’m simply pointing out that nobody but other authoritarian dictators want anything to do with Putin.

    1. Yes, Andy. I’d forgotten to recommend Adam Tooze – another one who knows his stuff.
      And as for democratic states with successful economies – Ukraine has a government that includes extreme right-wing elements and the “successful economy” in Romania hasn’t been able to build one new hospital in 30 years.

      1. The only states that want to join an alliance with Putin are those ruled by other authoritarian dictatorship. I wonder why that is?

      2. Ah yes. Like Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Egypt etc.
        I had forgotten.

      3. I hear that the authoritarian regime in Russia has been accused of mounting a blockade of Ukraine, a much smaller country close to Russia. Terrible. Now you’d never get the United States doin…………………….Oh!

    2. “There are those on the left who are so fixated with NATO and American imperialism that they have become blinded and indeed apologists for a ruthless Russian expansionism, for Russian imperialism based on a greater Russian nationalist ideology.
      The belief amongst some sections of the left that what is happening is a result of NATO expansionism does not stand up to scrutiny. It is at best misguided and at worst delusional. It puts the Ukrainian people into the category of mere geopolitical pawns and lends succour to the authoritarian and fascistic politics that now dominate Russia. It denies the Ukrainian people the fundamental right to determine their own future.
      To add to the mythology is the assertion that this is somehow about protecting Russian speaking people. Most of those resisting Russian-backed aggression on a daily basis, on the front line of the occupied territories, are Russian-speaking.

    1. Dicks…resigned not “let go” Stevie!you must learn to understand the details and get over your current state of unemployment.after being sacked from the job centre advisor.

  22. One more comment about Salisbury/Novichok – It is possible to analyse Novichok for chemical markers that indicate where it was manufactured (I’m no chemist but those who know more than I are adamant that this is the case).
    The BBC says “In 2018, he (Mr Corbyn) told the BBC that it was “very clear” the nerve agent was “very similar” to those made in Russia but added that “absolute evidence” was still needed.”
    He was right. He could have added that the Novichok made and held at Porton Down is very similar, as is that made and held in the US.

  23. I’m still trying to get my head around 13 members triggering Nick Forbes
    Now if its that easy what the fuck are we doing piss farting about on here

    1. Apparently the campaign against him was “brutal” according to “a source”. They can’t have been watching from 2015 to 2019 or they would know what brutal really is.

  24. For the last time – Corbyn stated that there was
    Russian involvement – and cited the best evidence
    ie the science. This was BOOED by the Tories and then
    re-stated by Porton Down scientists after Johnson told
    a lie about his phone calls to a scientist ..

    May challenged the Russians with the best evidence
    but they refused to answer – hence the so called
    sanctions. Corbyn backed the sanctions but then
    called for further investigations to track down the
    poison factory and *put it out of action* via the OPCW.
    He also wanted financial restraints put on the money
    launderers – including the arch money launderer Putin.

    PS It was stated above that
    “The policeman who was hospitalised with Novichok
    poisoning had been wearing a protective suit when
    he attended Mr Skripal’s house and touched the doorknob. ..”

    But the policeman was not wearing proper
    protective suiting – only something borrowed
    from the fire department. So he touches the door knob
    and gets it on his glove – then uses same glove to remove
    his goggles. The people who smeared the door knob knew
    what they were dealing with and how to deal with it.

    As for the Skripals – they have now been given new
    identities…

    1. How did they deal with it if they had no protective suits?
      No photos of them carrying anything remotely bulky.
      No discarded protective suits found in Salisbury.

  25. I think they had help – currently unknown though
    the security lot might know who they are ..

    The help did a lot off work behind the scenes
    to enable them to do a quick job to the door knob
    then get away.

    There is also the question as to what
    role – if any – did the bottle of poisoned perfume have –
    whereby Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley were
    poisoned and Dawn died? Again – unknown help
    which might be discovered in the future. Remember
    it took ages for what exactly went on in respect of
    Litvinenko and the polonium .. several Russian agents
    became seriously ill and some died in previous efforts
    to kill him. See
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/19/alexander-litvinenko-the-man-who-solved-his-own-murder
    In this case the Labour Party pushed for an investigation-
    now they are obsessed about dissing Corbyn.

    Really though the main question is – whatever they
    did IT DID NOT WORK .. because the Russian
    opposition guy was poisoned. They still have the poison
    and are still prepared to use it.

    1. For the sake of brevity, in my earlier comment, I left out part of what Craig Murray reported from his conversation with his ex-Mossad contact. The person told him that the FIS would have, indeed, had a sleeper cell operating in the UK long before any attack. However, he was of the firm opinion that:-
      The two Russians in question would not have travelled on Russian passports, but on fake EU passports.
      They would not have arrived directly from Moscow but from an EU country.
      They would not have flown in but would have used the ferry to avoid checks/cameras.
      They would not have gone to a hotel in London but would have been collected from the ferry terminal by hire car and taken to an already rented property in the countryside.
      They would not have travelled to Salisbury by train but would have been dropped from the hire car, and picked up again.
      They would not have been caught on CCTV. The sleeper cell would have meticulously checked out where any cameras were and avoided them.
      Asked by Murray why s/he thought this would have happened, s/he said that that was what Mossad would have done and the FSI were as “good” as Mossad.
      As far as Navalny (the Russian opposition guy) is concerned, and Skripal for that matter, Craig Murray is worth reading.
      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/09/novichok-navalny-nordstream-nonsense/

      1. The question really involves Putin hiding what he has done
        and a theory says he doesn’t care .. Obviously he does
        not want the details known about the sleeper cell(s) but is
        not bothered about the two who were accused.

        The question really is – why did the West put on such a pathetic
        response – ie no response? Chucking out lots of diplomats –
        pathetic! It was established that nothing more was done vis a
        vis sanctions and I think the UK cared more about the money
        markets than about Sturgess and her partner and motherless
        child plus the policeman and not forgetting the diplomat and
        his daughter.

      2. The clear and obvious answer to the question is that the narrative we were given by our leaders was rather divorced from the reality.

  26. Getting back to previous post on Forbes – it seemed that
    Nick Brown (previous Chief Whip) facilitated his deselection
    by organising efforts for his removal.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/09/labour-newcastle-city-council-leader-nick-forbes-deselected-ahead-of-local-elections

    Nick was a mate of Corbyn – who, as a back bencher had sent
    him little notes when he was going to disobey the Whip!
    [Nick Brown – Wiki]

    It seemed that Brown was one of those unusual MPs who would
    support others even though he disagreed with their politics.

  27. alexanserscottish, thanks for your thanks!!! It is evidence of your decency / integrity / basic manners.
    ps. The eLibrary route is new to me. Was v surprised and impressed. I had Pressreader for well over 15 years i think. Not used it in a while but in certain venues with WiFi, it used to offer FREE access to almost every publication incl magazines on every topic in the world in endless languages etc. Worth downloading the App and checking access if in cafes, Pret, hotels etc etc but DEFINITELY in Libraries.
    STUNNED and impressed by my own local librarieS plural
    Anyway wishing u well
    🧿💐🧿💐🧿💐

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