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Exclusive: Wrack – ‘you can probably guess’ FBU will vote to reject Evans at Labour conference

Union’s general secretary comments during webinar

FBU general secretary Matt Wrack has said this morning that ‘you can probably guess’ how the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) will vote during the ballot on acting general secretary David Evans at Labour’s annual conference next weekend.

While stressing that the union’s executive has yet to vote on its decision and that it is a democratic matter, Wrack was clear what he expects the result to be.

Wrack has also warned, on Socialist Telly, that the union might even go as far as disaffiliating from the party – a move that the Bakers have already set in progress.

With the Baker’s (BFAWU), Unite and the CWU all set to do the same, Evans’s future with the party hangs in the balance and Labour is desperately trying to expel or suspend as many left-wing local party delegates as possible to save him.

Of course, Starmer and the right might just ignore the party’s rules to keep Evans, but it will be hard for even the so-called ‘mainstream’ media to ignore that – and the legal ramifications of his lack of democratic legitimacy could be considerable in the rash of legal actions the party is almost certain to face in the coming months from members abused by the anti-democratic right-wing war on party democracy and members’ rights.

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      1. Managed being the operative word. In any organisation their are two types of decision maker. Leaders and coper’s (to cope means to manage).

        Organisations across every sector of UK and Western society are overrun with coper’ s who don’t know their arse from a hole in the ground who think copeing is the only legitimate kind of work and that any other task can be carried out simply by using random people picked from the bus stop after a fifteen minute CBT session. Which is why everything is so screwed up beyond redemption.

        Having spent decades removing anyone with leadership gumption from every organisation and institution to the point that everyone who is not lacking in gorm are desperate for escape, retirement, disability release, anything to escape the parasitic and useless managerialist bollocks infecting every aspect of existence, these numpties and their forelock tugging cheerleaders are now busy purging the political system of anyone who does not subscribe to their spiteful, narrow and unworkable philosophy, narrative and policies.

        It won’t be too long before the UK, if not the Western world, is renamed Numptyland.

    1. It was a brilliant webinar. The only downside for me was the need by the hosts to stop the chat because of their concern to protect current Labour party members, whose participation may have rendered them vulnerable to the venom of the Israeli spy. What a condemnation of the state of Labour party.

      Free speech, eh? At what price in Starmer’s democracy.

  1. It only takes ONE true LEADER to spark start the changes we need!!!
    Looooooong overdue!!!
    ALL thanks to
    Sharon Graham

  2. Apologies to the FBU. In an earlier post I forgot to mention their wonderful support last week at the protest against the Liverpool Arms Fair. They gave up their time to provide fire brigade support vehicles which gave raised platforms in two locations for those who spoke.

      1. Still trying to flog a dead horse I see Joseph- worried in case anybody missed your earlier sniping.

    1. Cut it out smartboy I know what this is about and answered you on another thread and just for the record trolls dont use a real name and I am easily tracked.Dont open up a argument that you will not win with me no matter how you get your knickers in a twist over Trans people.and the imagened insult over free speech that I supported when you became angry over the comments of a regular poster on here who I defended. .I took your side in condemning a right wing councillor in the Labour party but boring people like me and the poster do have opinions and free speech for smart boy or girl or whatever you are cut the sniping because I couldn’t back you all the way on a issue I am not interested in when there are many more issues that need adressing on far more important subjects ….end of.and grow up.

      1. Then stick to the important issues Joseph and stop denigrating Jeremy Corbyn and the Left in nearly every one of your posts. You are not going to get away with it anymore and neither is your colleague Signposts.

      2. Smartboy, if you had supported someone through thick and thin and they failed to support you when it mattered most, what would you think of them?

      3. Oh what a joke! So Jokeefe asks a question that he knows the answer to so that the shills can AGAIN bring up the fact that Chris Williamson didn’t speak at the demo! And then SteveH piles in and takes sides with Jokeefe against smartboy, yes!, takes sides with the poster who slags him off every day in practically every single thread! But then that’s shills for you.

        Anyway, I’ll take this opportunity to relate something Jokeefe said in a ‘reply’ to me a few days ago, which I only happened to see for the first time last night. He was defending his fellow shill signpost and finished with the following:

        ‘Now I have met men like you in my early days in Ireland and because of their unbalanced whisperings we quickly dealt with them.’

        Shills – black propagandists – particularly enjot doing TOTT stuff!!

        Is that a fact Joe! So how did you quickly deal with them exactly just out of curiousity (prepare for yet MORE complete and utter B/S from the Bull-Shitter supremo!)!!

      4. Reply to Steve H
        I am sick to death of posters like Joseph and Signposts posing as Socialists while tearing the Left to pieces in practically every post. I am just going to show them up for the trolls that they are at every opportunity . I don’t think that makes me a self appointed moderator but if it does then so be it.

      5. @Smartboy

        That choice makes you no better than Starmers labour…

        Anyone has the right to be butter when it comes to the Labour party. Probably something to do with feeling like they’ve been taken for a ride.

        Having socialist tendencies doesn’t automatically make you a labour supporter or voter, just like being well off doesn’t automatically make you a tory.

    2. Reply to NVLA- You are entitled to your opinion but I disagree with it. I fail to see how exposing posters pretending to be Socialists ( bitter or otherwise) when they are nothing of the sort and post anti Left propaganda here day in day out makes me like Starmer’s labour.

      1. Oh dear, another self appointed guardian of ‘the left’. 😏

      2. Smartboy I served office as a Labour councillors and took the seat in a historic win for the first ever Labour councillor in a rock Tory seat by a landslide margine of over two thouand in a seat that only produced nintey votes and considered a No hope seat.I was a Labour party member for over forty years and served in every position in the Surrey constituency and still held on to core left wing politics.despite intimidation from right wing Labour councillors who are in the majority even then in the ninties.Do you really think your twisted campaign against me for opposing your thought control on trans politics is seriously going to worry me.Comments like right wing troll ,pretend socialist worrys a old man like me living out my last few years in obscurity in Cambodia is really going to worry me.Get over yourself and stop getting your knickers in a twist over trans politics and ordinary people like me and millions of other people’s over a issue of little importance to the very real poverty and deprivation that the people of the UK are in for now. You are on a looser with this one …!

      3. Reply to Joseph
        You say you were a Labour party member for over 40 years and served in every position in Surrey prior to your move to Cambodia. You also lived in Bolton for some time prior to relocating to the Surrey according to some of your earlier posts so can you explain when exactly were you fighting “Crown forces” in Ulster and “dealing with” people accused of “unbalanced whispering” Glad if you would clarify for the maths just don’t seem to add up

    1. Joseph, as I mentioned in another post, even though Chris Williamson was there, he was not invited to speak. Speeches were made at three different locations therefore I was not able to hear all speakers so I don’t know if Andrew Scattergood spoke.

      1. Thanks for that jack shame you missed scattergood joint leader of momentum and somone that has real leadership potential.Chris Williamson is a mystery then?Whats wrong with Chris is he blacklisted or somthing or got a that is highly infectious?

      2. Being a little distance from the front I’m not sure who spoke at Princess Park at the start of the protest.

  3. I have just left the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign stall on Church Street, Liverpool & had quite a discussion about whether or not Chris Williamson was ‘overlooked’ by the organisers of the Liverpool Arms Fair Protest last Saturday.. I was informed by ‘Helen’ (campaign organiser) that a decision was made to exclude Chris Williamson from any platform because of the serious political implications for both Jeremy Corbyn MP & Dan Carden MP had they done so & she felt certain that Chris would have been disappointed, but she was unable to invite him..

    1. Steve Richards, I’m not sure what the ‘serious political implications’ would have been for Jeremy Corbyn and Dan Carden if Chris Williamson had spoken. Chris resigned from the Labour Party, therefore they would not have been associating with an expelled member.

      I believe they did not invite him to avoid the blushes of those speakers who had let him down.

      1. Jack Chris Williamson was not the be all for me but it was the end all for me in the Labour party.because I was brought up in the idea of loyalty to comrades and the obvious lodgic behind it knowing that your back was covered and loyalty was reciprocated in a socialist working-class movement that I started in in Ulster were covering your back could mean a comrade that would jump in and fight with you against the Crown forces waged against us and in some cases literally take a bullet for you..I know this is an entirely different situation in a different country but like anywhere loyalty counts.Along with many other issues especially the PLP mainly and the lack of internal democracy with the rigged leadership elections I Like many of the Labour party members and the international members that I was in just gave up hope of any long term change in the ideology of the Labour party.We are still supporting socialist movements but I want to see a movment of leadership from the front and leadership by example and loyalty to the members and activists that we have not seen for very many years if ever.I hope Chris Williamson can find is way forward and that all of us can forgive the very real snub to a comrade by our former leader of the Labour party and his devotees but like Chris we must learn that they have learnt nothing from the witchunt and we must never forget.that and build a new working-class movement of the people and for the people minus the enemy within.and the appeasers.good luck comrades.!

      2. Reply to Joseph
        Still having a go at Jeremy Corbyn and the Left I see. We all know your opinion so for heavens sake please change the record or don’t you think endless repetition is boring.

      3. Well mr smartboy you can either like it or lump it but like I said before grow up and stop getting your knickers in a twist over trans rights its not worth it..You cannot force your agenda on the people unless they aceppt it and I doubt they will from a twisted little toe rag like you ..

      4. Smartboy
        JC was a spiritual leader, a man with not an AS bone in his body, he gave us clear Red Water, his legacy is secure
        As a party manager he was practically useless

      5. Comrade JackT there seems to be some doubt expressed by at least one Skwawkbox contributor that when I said I had been talking to Chris Williamson at the Arms Fair Demo & reported that Chris was disappointed at not being given a platform, was I in any way ‘lying through my teeth?

      6. It’s funny Smartboy, but the TWO main people who spend much of their time on here bad-mouthing and falsely discrediting Jeremy – ie signpost and Jokeefe – were the two people – in the days after Jeremy announced that he would be standing down once a new leader was elected – who were INSISTING on here that he stay on as leader.

        I won’t bother NOW, but it should be easy enough to find an example or two or three, so maybe a bit later I’ll locate some of them and post them in this thread. And perhaps OTHER forthcoming threads as well, just to show and prove to readers of this site what TOTAL fraudsters they both ARE. But BEWARE Smartboy because Joe has:

        ‘met men like you in my early days in Ireland and because of their unbalanced whisperings we quickly dealt with them.’

      7. Steve Richards, from my own conversations with CW I’d say you were spot on. I missed your original post.

      8. Reply to Allan Howard
        Joseph is just a windbag who is, I believe, paid to undermine the Left . He’s the sort of coward who talks a good fight and tries to scare people but would run a mile if confronted so I’m not shaking in my shoes.

      9. Reply to Joseph
        So now I’m a twisted little toe rag because I have pointed out the anti left rhetoric in almost every one of your posts. Be as rude and as insulting as you like, it won’t bother me one bit because I know you are a paid Troll and therefore your opinion is of no importance – you are bought and paid for as my old gran used to say

      10. Reply to Doug
        Disagree with you Doug that Jeremy was not a good party manager. He never got the chance to show his abilities in this area
        He had the vast majority of the PLP and Southside working against him constantly giving negative briefings to a hostile MSM which reported them with glee. He was portrayed as the devil incarnate by them all – a spy, pacifist, not patriotic, a threat to national security, a Trot/Marxist/ Stalinist, a ditherer, pro terrorist, an antisemite.
        he had said “good morning” and it rained he would have been denounced as a liar in every tabloid in the gutter press every day for a week.
        He took more abuse personal and professional than anybody could reasonably be expected to bear and he came through it all , his integrity intact and always refusing to descend into the gutter with his detractors. He is a wonderful man , a great socialist and the disgusting way he was treated has come back to bite the Labour party and will remain an issue for many people for years to come.

      11. Reply to Steve H
        I’m a wimp Steve but I couldn’t sleep in my bed if I let the likes of Signposts, Joseph or yourself spread your poison without trying to counter it. By the way where is Signposts – on a half day is he?

      12. Smartboy – Unfortunately your crusade comes over as being more than a bit naff.. Will you be singing Jerusalem to give yourself fortitude whilst you are fighting the good fight.

      13. Smartboy
        No one can be brilliant at everything, we all have fatal weaknesses
        JC could not handle conflict or impose discipline, to much Wolfie Smith and not enough President Xi
        The MSM and toilet papers have ever been thus, Kjnnock was denied the 92 election against John Major FFS
        What we agree on is his legacy, but it’s not for our generation, we have proved ill equipped to get it over the line, the younguns know what to do with it, let them have the leadership of this Great British Labour Party

    2. Steve Richards…IT beggers belief and I am staggered at the sheer brutality of rejection in a large public meeting.No excuses and when you first reported yesterday my initial reaction was no way would they do that to Chris.I think he will be far more than disappointed steve and I apologise if I questioned your statment on the ground.and assumed you must be mistaken.I am not nieve after all the years in politics but this has shown me just how much my decision to dump the Labour party has been the only way to make a statment and remove the funding.

      1. Thank you Joseph. I may disagree with you about some things, but RESPECT!

  4. Imagine if someone associated with the left were attracting anything like the controversy Evans is – there’d be moves, ironically led by Evans, to kick out of the party, pronto.

    With the unions being Labour’s major financial sponsors, how can controversial Evans just brazen this out? And how can his boss think digging in for such a battle – with the party’s paymasters, is worth it?

    Evans isn’t going to change his behaviour, because purging socialism from the Labour party has always been his ambition for decades, it’s his modus operandi. Starmer knew this when he hired him, which makes matters even worse.

    1. Andy they might offer him up and throw him under the bus,but theyve actually plenty more were he came from even though he’s a pal of Starmers from the Oxted \Croydon area.ITs a positive if Evans goes but the real villain is Starmer and whoever funds him.Dont forget lawyers never do somthing for nothing and his leaders position is buttons for our multi millionaire Lawyer from Surrey with a fringe on top..! We need to find the money men whether it is Trevor Chinn Israeli snooper or the Israeli government that I suspect were in the thick of it.with the removal of Corbyn . and destruction of the democratic socialist Labour party.

      1. Joseph – If you want to know who is funding Keir Starmer then you’ll find all the information you need in the Register of Members Interests.

      2. Dont insult my intelligence mr hall h davidh members interests and international money transfers via charitys really must think we havnt got a clue how the crooks and parasites ,banksters and multi millionaire lawyers move money from here to tax havens and fill there boots.Oh yes Steve H I will check the members interests and I am sure its all above board and legal especially on the register..!of billy liars weekly.

      3. Joseph – If you have any evidence of this I suggest you report it. Making false decelerations is a criminal offence.

      4. Joseph okeefe-

        They’ll probably try that move in response, yeah. But it’ll be a big symbolic event, pushback, and an expression of frustration – a yellow card for Starmer.

        SteveH – I really don’t understand why you continue to defend the current leadership?

        For starters, they aren’t very democratic, THEY ARE however ridiculously controlling. It may surprise you, but I don’t agree with Corbyn on everything, but he’s the type of leader who you can debate ideas with openly and agree to disagree.

        That type of camaraderie is impossible with the hard faced Starmer leadership. A leadership who think this a battle to close debate, and the left their mortal enemies. Labour’s right will tolerate no genuine policy debate or open flow of ideas. Their only aim is using the ‘Labour brand’ name recognition to further their own careerist ends.

  5. I doubt a lawyer who had the rep for the man to go to for bent coppers is worried about members interests in the register or being chased by his old cronys in the MET.for recycling a few extra bob in a tax haven.or disappearing corbyns millions of his legacy left to the Labour the end of the socialist revival…..Any news on the missing millions Steve H?

    1. Joseph – You don’t half talk some crap, Starmer is quite well off because he was a very successful barrister.
      The reason that the £13m reserve was depleted is that in 2019 Labour’s membership fell way below the 500k threshold that their budgets were based on and they were spending more than they had coming in. It is simple maths.
      You really shouldn’t maliciously accuse others of committing crimes when you have zero evidence to support your accusations.

      1. SteveH. Then he should have stuck to barristering because he is useless at being Labour Leader. Yes, I do know I’m entitled to my own opinion.

      2. SteveH
        One month’s reserves, negative cash flow was not £13 million
        How do you deplete reserves of £13 million in a year or two at most
        You utter utter cabbage, you have the accounting skills of Robert Maxwell

      3. Doug – You are right I am not an accountant and nor do I claim to be but the decline in membership numbers during 2018/19 is undeniable.
        The following figures are the number of fully paid up members and are extracted from the voting returns for various Labour internal elections.
        Jul17 – 538,606
        Nov17 -525,779
        Jun18 – 506,320
        Nov19 – 430,359
        Jan20 – 552,825
        Aug20 – 495,961

        Here are the accounts for 2020
        Why don’t you explain where the money went and how this was in any way dishonest. If you find any areas of concern then you should report it to the Electoral Commission because it is a criminal offence to lodge false information with them.

      4. Doug – I would guess it was around 200k, is there a reason I should care?
        Why is this relevant now?

      5. SteveH
        Reserves drop from £13 million to £11 million, membership at record highs, upto 2020 there is no material difference in the parties finances

      6. Doug – ………and the point you are trying to make is?

      7. SteveH
        NEC Annual report should bring us upto date, due this month

      1. In 2020 accounts the auditors twice mention the danger of internal controls being overridden by management and or others
        Admin and Political activities went from £1 million to £7 million
        I cannot see how you get from £11 million reserves (£13 million 2019) to 1 months running costs, even Maxwell wasn’t that corrupt

      2. Doug – “Nothing and I mean zip is in NEC Annual report 2021

        Have you considered that this is because there really is nothing to see?

  6. Andy a good assessment on the state of play and what could be a monumental week in the life or death of the democratic socialist Labour party.!early hours of the morning for me and way past my bedtime comrades regards!

  7. Right Wing Barbarians once they win the initial vote feel they can then do anything like Trump, Johnson now Starmer.
    See how they ride roughshod over democracy.
    And it’s all down in Starmer’s case to a majority of naive Labour members (often middle class liberals) who legitimised his power when they fell for the Starmer Ten Pledge Con!
    And see how quickly Starmer dropped the pledges especially no. 6 to give migrants the vote (on a possible referendum to re-join the EC? Gerrymandering the electorate and slapping the Red Wall in the face again re Brexit?) After being the key architect of a 2nd PV and Labour’s electoral suicide with two thirds of Labour seats being Pro Leave!
    The Right and Middle Class Liberals have an ideal image of the perfect PM, the Great Man/Woman of History, who will sort all our problems out.
    They accept the public as they may be (fed Crap by the Right Wing Media) but Left Wing Democratic Socialists believe we should try to politicise the masses to empower the masses and to share the power WITH diverse working people.
    I would give migrants a vote as they work and pay taxes but not on the BREXIT issue, that is settled.
    Oh and I did enjoy slaughtering Political Moron Farage, he was boasting about Trump’s victory comparing it to the Brexit victory.
    But BREXIT was on the popular vote and the US has a weird electoral college and if it had been on the popular vote Trump would have lost to Clinton by 5m!
    The Right Wing in Labour belong in the garbage can of history, they want power for themselves but just crumbs for diverse working people.
    In terms of the progression of humanity they may well as never existed!
    We need a genuine Left Wing Democratic Socialist Party or List for the next GE.

    1. Bazza – You are mistaken about the contents of ‘pledge6’
      What it actually says is

      6. Defend migrants’ rights
      Full voting rights for EU nationals. Defend free movement as we leave the EU. An immigration system based on compassion and dignity. End indefinite detention and call for the closure of centres such as Yarl’s Wood.

      Which is not quite what you thought it said.

      1. Full voting rights for EU nationals eg in Right Wing Labour’s long term plan for a referendum on rejoining the EC.
        A slap in the face for the Red Wall.
        Trilateral Commission, Blair, Mandelson – stupid is as stupid does.
        They just will not let it lie.
        By the way Right Wing political creep why do you support Right Wing Labour MPs voting to bomb our Black & Brown brothers and sisters – Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria.
        If you want to know the real Starmer read Oliver Eagleton on Novara Media, 2/3/21.

      2. Bazza – “eg in Right Wing Labour’s long term plan for a referendum on rejoining the EC.

        But it doesn’t say that, you made that up, it is a lie. Why don’t you have the good grace to admit you are wrong.

  8. I recall collecting in support of the firefighters’ strike in 1977. If they return the favour by voting against Evans I will be pleased.

  9. To (mis)quote Chumbawamba* and Credit To The Nation:

    “Enough is enough is enough is enough,
    Give the right-wing (fascist) a gunshot!”

    * in my opinion the best live band that ever existed!

  10. Well another day another doller as the boy says smarting from his foot stamping tantrum on trans rights,that has got his knickers in a twist.Well thankyou for those that supported me overnight whilst I slept and its uplifting to see comrades stand with me against fabricated lies regarding my being a paid troll despite always having posted under the name I was born with and exactly were I have spent my years in politics as a Socialist or what some would describe as a hard left wing supporter and a Communist.That’s okay by me and I really don’t know what I am other than a person who wants a real choice for ordinary people to rise above the very real poverty that still inflicts the world and are held down by not only curible diseases that could be easily cured but for the rigged capatilist system and Big pharma and business leaders who promote greed and corruption across the world.IN Britain and much of the west the neo liberal alliance have passed their high point and have used the virus to sneak in draconian laws against us the working-class movement because they know that the tide as turned and the one percent are in a Battle to continue to control the air that we breath and ground beneath our feet.The knights tenure on the Labour party is looking shaky with funding and membership bleeding away from him and his misfits keep up the pressure and hopfuly this week will see the start of the retreat if we get behind the unions and the real Opposition party at this upcoming Labour conference.Stick together and never forget that the real enemy in Britain is the Conservative and unionist party with their warped ideology and supporters inside almost every organisation for the good of ordinary people and most importantly inside the Labour and in control and to a lesser extent the unions who are leading the charge of the working-class movement for democratic change and a decent society..Some will fall by the wayside and some to corruption or fear of the enemy within but the vast majority of us the working-class democratic socialist movement will carry on and this week is absolutely crucial in sending a message to the movment no surrender and no capitulation to the enemy of the majority.and we will win the battle because as a advocate of the one percent said “because they have no were else to go and my interpritation would be yes onwards and upwards because yes we really have nowhere else to go…!

    1. Nowhere else to go can mean staying at home.

      I see in today’s guardian that Labour is now chasing Tory voters (like you couldn’t already tell…). Silly bastards can court all the Tories they like, many more won’t be voting because of being stabbed in the back.

      They need us more than we need them.

  11. Thanks Baz 2001….you must explain the two thousand and one somtime.and hopfuly we will have a better grasp by the end of the month just how things are shaping up in the Labour party.?

    1. Heard an amazing+++ young woman’s account speaking FROM Afghanistan of her dreadful experience having been abandoned by Johnson’s Tory Dominic Raab & Co. Thought, now THAT’s the type of person with spirit we need✨‼️✨‼️✨‼️
      Clear, excellently AUDIBLE, persuasive+++.
      No idea Gardner would speak, let alone immediately after such an outstanding young woman, who deserves our best wishes.

      When Gardner was asked why Starmer has failed to condemn Johnson’s Tory Raab’s disgraceful cruel disregard 4 many deserted in one of the deadly danger-zones caused by WMD Blair, Gardner DEFENDED SIRstarmer… said Keith’s doing a good job & holding Johnson to account… i kid u not.
      Make of that what u CHOOSE.

      ANOTHER NASTY choice this time made by Tories in their OWN nest; allegedly Johnson has decided: Arise LORD Gavin Williamson. Allegedly part of “the deal” won by peculiar GW b4 departing Cabinet. GW of course knows where many bodies r buried.

      Lesson 4 us❓ Don’t ask; Don’t get! Dont stand & speak up AS we ALWAYS can CHOOSE❓ Get kicked in the teeth if u CHOOSE to keep heads down on the ground. Those lacking BASIC decency & self-respect to stand and defend themselves, r UNLIKELY to EVER defend others in any TANGIBLE way. FACT, they DIDN’T‼️ Fact, they wont‼️ Fact, they CHOOSE not too defend even devoted friends. F A C T S‼️

      Winning is easy, as Independents show over and over. Yet 4 a our POSITIVE future, we must choose friends, allies, comrades WISELY. And use our resources including energy, TIME, bandwidth wisely. Otherwise sustained progress will be IMPOSSIBLE.
      Hard facts? Challenging facts ? Facts which even children CHOOSE to face ? Yes and we r neither children nor obedient timid puppies.

      1. Did you enjoy your day off Signposts? Working 6 days out of 7 must be exhausting but I suppose the pay is good

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