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Here’s the next Labour leader’s first speech

What the next Labour leader needs to say if s/he’s to have any credibility and any hope of uniting the party

With many expecting that Keir Starmer’s leadership may not last the week after the defeat even the party predicts in tomorrow’s Batley and Spen by-election, left activist @damian_from has written the next Labour leader’s ‘maiden speech’ for her/him – a speech that he feels would need to be delivered for there to be any hope of uniting and energising party activists and making Labour a serious electoral force again:

The Labour Party has broken trust with the British people twice this century. We broke trust over Iraq and we broke trust over Brexit.

The former Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has apologised on behalf of the Labour party for Tony Blair leading the country into an illegal war of aggression against Iraq and I am here today to apologise for Labour trying to stop Brexit.

The attempts by Labour to overturn the democratic decision to leave the EU were undemocratic and wrong. We promised to deliver Brexit and we broke our word.

Labour is a democratic socialist party. Democracy and socialism are our two core principles. There was no excuse for Labour failing to accept the largest democratic mandate in the history of British democracy.

Although Labour members were well intentioned, wishing to avert an outcome they believed would cost jobs and harm the economy, there is no excuse for ignoring democratic results. That is the antithesis of Labour’s values.

Bad faith actors were also involved. The people involved in the coup to topple Jeremy Corbyn were in many cases leaders of the second referendum campaign. They used the second referendum as a weapon to carry out their treacherous mission.

My first task as Labour leader is to apologise to leave voters. Labour shamefully dishonoured your vote. I am deeply sorry and unreservedly apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for that breach of trust. I guarantee that under my leadership Labour will never disrespect voters’ wishes. I also wish to apologise to remain voters. You were led up the garden path by the Labour MPs who supported the People’s Vote campaign.  There was never a majority in the country or parliament for a second referendum, it was just being used to topple a Labour leader. You were used by Labour MPs who pushed the second referendum and for that I sincerely apologise.

I hope it will be possible to rebuild trust with the public. It is up to me to prove to you that my word is my bond. It is my job to rebuild trust and to give people a reason to vote Labour again.

Regarding internal party matters, the Forde Report will be published immediately. Anyone who is found to have been involved in sabotaging the election of a Labour government will face disciplinary action. As leader I will have no involvement in that process.

My highest priority is increasing the number of people who vote Labour. I will do that by setting out the programme of government I will implement if I become Prime Minister.

Judge me by my actions. All I ask for is the opportunity to serve my country.

Do you agree or disagree with this proposed speech? Have your say in the comments. Read more of Damian’s writings here.

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  1. btw – donald rumsfeld gone back to hell. may his millions of victims rest in peace.

    btw – do you remember john mcdonnell chose to spill on arsetair campbellend in gq magazine that jeremy should stand down after ge2019. mcdonnell then chose to tour msm studios day after day wielding that sharp treacherous knife to jeremy.

    now mucky sir dipstick smegma starmar, gelled potato eyed starmar headed phallus, clogged drain starmar has leaked. despite being dull, disastrous, swamp of defeats, nowhere ness, an ethical vacuum, fungal “bad bad bad news”, starmer a derelict damp coup plotter saboteur tool who undermined a true labour win, won’t drip aside after yet another “predictable and predicted” abysmal wipe out in batley & spen this week.

    mcdonnell🐍 must have noticed starmar lost hartlepool … first time in labour history (jeremy won hartlepool twice despite starmar & mcdonnell’s remain scam), erased in amersham & chesham dumped to 4th place č 622 votes … 1.6% vote share (jeremy in deep blue toryland won over eleven thousand votes and 2nd place).

    sir dip stick starmar has erased hundreds of labour councils with his offer to outdo blue tories evils. 98.4% of the electorate said next… a no from us… starmar u r the weakest link good by… go dump yourself keith… we’re out rodney… don’t call us and we won’t call you captain hindsight…

    questions – 1- what does 🐍john mcdonnell🐍have to say now❔
    2 – john mcdonnell r u planning another interview with you spin merchant of choice arsetair campbellend❔
    3 – did u plot with starmar to unseat jeremy and have u plotted č starmer to continue supporting him❔
    4 – did u and do u still think that jeremy is gullible, would do anything you tell him and does not want to lead a party anyway❔

  2. It is very difficult to read (decipher) this post. Whatever happened to language skills as a means of communication?

    1. I agree, I am struggling with this one from windchimes. Is he so woke that ordinary conventions to communicate in English don’t apply? Like in Maths if you are woke you don’t have to add up or do ordinary equations etc? Or just nuts or on the finest medications brewers and distillers in the UK can provide? I think we should be told.

    1. Since stepping down Jeremy has said to camera on at least 2 occasions that the vast majority of Labour’s members and voters supported a CV and staying in the EU

      1. But the voters where Labour held most of their seats, and where the vast majority of Labour losses were in 2019, are overwhelmingly and unchangeably Leave. Once Starmer forced his anti-working class second ref position on Corbyn, then twisted the knife even further by refusing to be satisfied with that, insisted on pushing further towards the unachievable objective of a second referendum BEFORE the next election- something Starmer knew could never be made to happen- massive Labour losses in what had been the Red Wall- an area Corbyn had won solidly in 2017- were a certainty no matter how much time went by between that moment and the next election, no matter what policies Labour offered, and no matter who the leader was when it was held. It goes without saying there’d have been just as many losses if Keir had fought the subsequent election- and it is likely that Keir knows it. Labour was doomed to lose at least 45 seats in the Red Wall standing as a Remain party, and there was no chance of making any significant number of gains from the Tories anywhere outside the Red Wall by standing as a Remain party,

        So it doesn’t matter if most Labour supporters wanted a second ref. Labour could never have won the next GE, no matter when it was held, as a Remain party, and could never have brought in genuinely socialist policies- socialism can’t be created without the ability to nationalise or run deficits- and in any case, there was never a socialist or even mildly progressive case for staying in the EU, since member countries are essentially mandated to privatise and run perpetual austerity budgets.

        Why destroy Labour’s chances of winning by fighting to stay in a permanently Thatcherite economic union whose policies and rules make it impossible for a Labour government to BE a Labour government?

  3. Damian sounds like the leader we desperately need. He needs to promise:
    1 – No more appeasement.
    2 – When voters vote, they vote having heard the arguments. They do not vote for their choices to be diluted and then dilution spun as “bringing people together” or other such failed fog of tosh.
    3 – He must promise to never return to failed attitudes, cultures and tired excuses of blaming external forces.
    4 – Those who failed to honour and respect mass support, should have no place in the shadow or government cabinet. They have proven conclusively that they never learn and are more content with the status quo than the assumptions of their words. judge by results. what has been implemented over decades? “crowds” are not achievement. Crowds indicate support for what is promised. No one held a gun to anyone’s head to fail. It was a choice to hide the Forde report.
    5 – john mcdonnell said a few weeks ago that if the whip were restored, he would be back in a flash. That craven desperation is evidence of an unspoken content with carrying on as before.
    6 – A future leader must distinguish between people without bad intentions and those who priorities achieving good. We need the latter. There is no need in politics for the former.
    7 – As insurgents re the status quo, a future leader must not be risk averse and obsessed with what the media or x or y will say.
    8 – All votes are welcome but, from top to bottom, all defeatist, victim mongers and whiners, atomisers ie fragmenting people into every smaller groups, that type must have no role at any level in the party.
    9 – The leader must grasp the basics. Normalise our offerings. Prioritise, sequence, be present outside familiar circles.
    10 – Any person or creature lying in public or private eg like hodge “you are an f***ing a-S”, should be suspended immediately and expelled.
    11 – Never again be delinquent in our responsibility to turn up for votes to arrest, charge, prosecute, fine, and imprison war criminal here blair.
    12 – No leader should be fixated on derelict yet so called “big names”. Develop the new. There are very few yes. But better to invest in substance than quantity.
    13 – Courage of convictions.
    14 – Pledge to free Julian Assange and other prisoners of conscience HERE.

    1. should have read – ‘… those who prioritise’ 💐💐💐

  4. “Here’s the next Labour leader’s first speech” You’re joking!

    Here’s a better one: “We are democratic socialists and we respect voter’s rights to change their mind if they wish”

    1. I seem to remember the electorate had the right to change their mind in December 2019.

      …And how did THAT go, wise guy?

      Have another try. And then another, and another…The people said ‘No’ and they meant it. What part of that basic concept has escaped your extremely limited power of comprehension?

      1. Toffee – You’re right and the post election polls back you up. The voters made their opinion of Jeremy very clear. They didn’t trust him.

      2. Also, your reticence on the matter of there being no majority either in parliament or amongst the electorate for a second ref renders any mention of social democracy by you as sheer hypocrisy..

        As does any wishing that Corbyn was still leader; complaints about stammer’s ‘leadership’ , or your complaints about this toerag govt.

        YOU enabled all three.

      3. 2017. Pre 2nd referendum shithousery – And the rags have to bribe the DUP in order to cling to power. Corbyn comes within @2300 votes of becoming PM.

        The rags are imploding over their age-old bete-noir of the EU. The labour right are bewilderedly shitting themselves, as demonstrated by kincock jr.

        2019 – Post second referendum shithousery, and the rags win a landslide election.

        Case fucking closed.

      4. They don’t trust Starmer and the 2010/15 results prove they would never have trusted Burnham, Cooper, Kendall, or Smith. And in any case, there’s not going to be a Corbyn Restoration, so you can stop acting like he’s something you have to beat back with a stick.

        All we’re saying is there’s nothing to gain from moving the party to the right OR making a fetish out of the flag and the military.

      5. kenburch – ….and the 19GE proved that too many had lost any trust they once had in Corbyn.

      6. It no longer matters what voters may have thought of Corbyn- the point is that he was the only leader since the Eighties who supported socialism or anything remotely like that- and the voters neither hated his policies nor want Labour to move sharply to the right as Starmer is moving them- it goes without saying that a party that presents itself as “patriotic” and “law and order” cannot be radically or even significantly different than the Tories on any major issue.

        You don’t need to keep acting as if Corbyn needs to be stopped.

        Corbyn’s never going to seek the leadership again- and quite frankly, nothing about Corbyn vindicates anything Starmer has done as leader- and especially not Starmer’s abandonment of his pledges to never move the party to the right of the 2017 manifesto-we all know anything to the right of that is Thatcherism- and to never launch a purge of Corbyn supporters.

        The only thing that would vindicate your position, Steve, is if Labour HAD the “twenty point lead” we were all promised it would have with “any other leader”. The polls prove that that is not the case- the polls prove that moving hard to the right can never gain Labour votes- and they prove that the voters AREN’T insisting that Corbyn and his supporters be anathemised. The polls also prove that it can never work for Starmer to anathemise Corbyn supporters and then turn around and demand their votes AFTER anathemising them.

        And the polls prove that the “ANY Labour government would be better than a Tory government” arguement will never succeed.

        Whoever leads the party next- and that will neither be Starmer NOR Corbyn- needs to reach out to the activists Starmer has driven away and needs to let go of the idea that Labour can get Tory votes by purging socialists. 6th May, Hartlepool and whatever happens at Batley & Old Spen tonight show decisively that Labour can’t win with a leader who treats his own party’s core supporters with utter contempt, who wishes to run the party solely from above with no say allowed to the grassroots, and whose advisors are all cynical socialist-hating electoral failures.

        What is it going to take to get you to accept reality, Steve?

    2. ……….but only if you had your fingers crossed when you voted. True to your word? Please don’t sign any contracts, not worth the paper they’re written on.

  5. First paragraph ensures no Labour leader will utter the above speech. Pity, as it’s quite good and accurate too.

    Rumsfeld can rot like McCain before him. Warmongering bastards!

    1. In the previous thread (in relation to Julian Assange) you said: ‘Why did it take Jeremy Corbyn SOOOOOOOOOOOOO long to come to the aid of Julian………??????’.

      Jeremy and other MPs have been speaking up for Julian Assange on many occasions before now, so what you say is in effect a falsehood. Anyway, here’s a link to the response I just posted in reply, which includes the following from an RT article:

      A group of British members of parliament have come to the walls of Belmarsh maximum-security prison in south-east London on Tuesday to protest the lack of transparency in Assange’s case.

      The MPs said their requests to meet with the founder of the WikiLeaks whistleblower website….. have been denied repeatedly.

      1. The following article was posted on The Daily Wire website on June 12th:

        ‘Julian Assange And A ‘Clarion Call For Freedom’: U.K. Politicians Call On Biden To Drop Charges Against WikiLeaks Founder’

        A bipartisan collection of 24 British politicians have requested that President Joe Biden drop all charges against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and that the U.S. rescind its demand for Assange’s extradition [including Jeremy Corbyn of course!].

        And it includes a link to the letter, and here it is:

      2. The following is from about sixteen months ago:

        ‘Jeremy Corbyn opposes Julian Assange’s extradition at PMQs’

      3. Allan – Jeremy Corbyn has only mentioned Julian Assange twice in parliament in the last 11 years.

        Jeremy Corbyn
        “I apologise, Ms Ghani. I was not aware that there was a time limit. I will briefly say this. In our complacency, let us not forget brave people who have blown the whistle on the truth around the world. I think of Julian Assange and the work he has done in exposing what has happened around the world in preparation for war and other things. In some countries, he would be called a hero for being a whistleblower; here, he is called something very different. We should think of what news values and freedom of speech values are actually all about. Thank you for the opportunity to speak, Ms Ghani.

        Jeremy Corbyn
        It has everything to do with the relationship with the USA that Anne Sacoolas has not been extradited back to Britain, because the US refuses to do it because of this lopsided treaty. I am glad the Prime Minister at least acknowledges that point about the treaty. This deep disparity with the US is about to be laid bare, when the courts decide whether the WikiLeaks publisher Julian Assange will be extradited to the US on charges of espionage and for exposing war crimes, including the murder of civilians and large-scale corruption. Does the Prime Minister agree with the parliamentary report that is going to the Council of Europe that this extradition should be opposed and the rights of journalists and whistleblowers upheld for the good of us all?

        Is that really the best he could manage?

      4. And what ‘cameras’ were those Wirral? As with the revelations about Thordarson being completely blanked by the MSM, they have also blanked Jeremy and Co visiting Belmarsh – ie not covered the fact that Jeremy and Co have tried repeatedly to gain access to Julian.

        The joke of it is that SURELY any supporter of Julian would WANT for their visit – and the reason for it – to be covered by the MSM. But YOU turn reality on it’s head and paint it as something negative – ie wanting to get publicity regarding Julian and their support for him and their call for him to be freed!

      5. Jeremy chose to remain silent when he had a huge and influential leader’s platform he could have wielded at the time to help Julian, himself as leader and the party electorally. But he only spoke up after he’d lost the position and all that influence. Not good enough. In fact, it was a horrendous, tactical failure. I’m not saying he deserved what the bastards did to him btw. This is one of my rare criticisms of the man. Was it an oversight, or a deliberate choice? I would suggest the latter, Allan.

    2. “For almost seven years the embassy was famously home to the Australian activist and journalist Julian Assange, who initially entered on 19 June 2012 claiming diplomatic asylum, which was granted by the Ecuadorian government on 16 August 2012.”

      Corbyn as leader publicly said zilch throughout the 7-year media onslaught, bogus rape charges, etc al. and as the campaign to protect Assange gained publicity.

      So I repeat…

      “Not false at all, Allan.
      Strike while the iron’s hot 🔥… not years after the event and for the assembled cameras 🎥”

      Thanks for your patience as I repeat and persevere…

      1. You are obviously getting confused Wirral, as well as being totally disingenuous. In your initial post you implied that Jeremy’s visit to Belmarsh was the very first time that he has ‘come to the aid of Julian’, and THAT was a falsehood. Oh, but now I’ve exposed your falsehood you suddenly change tack!

        As for you confusion, Jeremy of course was NOT leader of the LP until September 2015, so yet AGAIN you’ve posted a falsehood – ie that Jeremy was leader for the seven years Julian was in the embassy. But your biggest lie is that Jeremy – whether as leader or not – could have had any influence whatsoever on getting Julian out of the fix he was in. Of course he couldn’t! And there is absolutely nothing he could have said or done to that end. And THAT is still the case. So much for ‘striking while the irons hot’!

        I have little doubt that Jeremy realised at the time that Julian had been set up – ie the invitation to Sweden and the honey trap etc – but when allegations of rape are being thrown around, he would have been pilloried and hammered for saying such a thing. But here’s the rub – and is precisely what exposes you for the phony you are – that Jeremy has always supported Julian and all he’s done in exposing the crimes of the ruling elite(s) – of course he HAS – and to suggest otherwise is a gynormous falsehood!

        The following article by Jonathan Cook explains the difficulty – the dilemma – faced by the left in giving their support to Julian whilst the rape allegations were being leveled at him:

        ‘How the left is being manipulated into colluding in its own character assassination’

      2. Allan – “Jeremy has always supported Julian and all he’s done in exposing the crimes of the ruling elite(s) – of course he HAS – and to suggest otherwise is a gynormous falsehood!”

        IProve it, he only ever mentioned Julian twice in Parliament and neither of those contributions was anything to write home about.

  6. I agree with Skwawkbox and if the next labour leader gave this speech, word for word, then it would be a party I could vote for, but would also add the following, ‘ and Tony ‘the liar’ Blair is to be expelled from the party for his part in preventing Jeremy Corbyn being prime minister and for the murder of a million+ Iraqis!”

    1. totally agree. blair should have been expelled. alex salmond brought a motion to parliament to ‘impeach’ the war criminal and liar blair. certain people from the shadow cabinet “must have had other important things to do” , i was told when i asked why that disreputable absence for the vote.

      question – what could be more important than bringing to justice a creature responsible for the deaths of over one million in iraq alone? even leaving out the injured, the monumental grief, the orphans … think of it? what sort of priorities does such a dereliction of duty or curious “zen” does that reveal? who pays the price? how does it effect change to protect and thereby DIRECTLY enable a war criminal like blair? blair since has not stopped pushing for ever more bombings. how does failing to assist alex salmond’s motion help us, our country or rumsfeld, bush and blair’s victims???

      that must NEVER happen again.

      We have been conned. PLUS the idea that occasional words with zero follow through, apparently hoping that the status quo guards will do as we hope is for the birds. it does not take four years to learn that, let alone forty.

      1. Unfortunately a lot the Shadow Cabinet, including Jeremy, missed that vote because they had an important meeting with Len McCluskey 😕

      2. thanks 4 that info. interesting. a certain ‘biggish wig’ from another union was adamant yet polite and concise that i should be assured that the shadow cabinet all needed to be absent “because they had something more important to do”. hmmm what could have been soooooo “important”? … and č mccluskey ? ? ?
        the mind boggles. i’m a bit stunned at your corroborating that. u may of course be up to your usual tricks, but i should not assume that.
        in any event, we should judge results. the war criminal blair roams free cavorting with ever kleptomaniac despot … until they realised he had nothing to offer… just a self-serving money worshiping untrustworthy but in every other respect more unsavoury compared to other insatiably blood thirsty maniacs. the creature’s over trumped promises but zero substance, meant even despots rated him lower than decent people even on … wanna be mosquito net supplier blair creature is a dangerous one to be on the loose. therefore the meeting with mccluskey, was ill timed, ill conceived, caused ill consequences, and there was no reasonable excuse for the entire shadow cabinet to attend. look at the results.

        if what u say is true, then it would be as i’ve suspected and stated. the “left’s” malignancy is a collective tumour.

        jeremy respected and trusted those who deserved neither. he thought them intellectually superior. he is wrong about that. he was right on almost every aspect of policy including ‘leave’. those he thought were friends and ‘comrades’ were no match for his insight re how society should be. he was correct. they conversely are not but to avoid confrontation, he sacrificed his insight for their mess. they imposed their emptiness on him. they thought him gullible. in reality he was only trying to “avoid confrontation”. i hear he has been like that all his life… “has never changed”.

        that is not a complement. we should all change as we grow. don’t repeat errors. somehow he acquired unimpeachable insight re policy, yet none re implementation and assessing ‘friends’ and ‘advice’. a tragedy if ever there was one.

      3. How could he do any other on the EU. He stood twice on a platform of a members led party and as Jeremy himself has said since ‘70% of Labour’s membership (and voters) wanted a CV and to stay in the EU.

      4. SteveH, instead of saying that Jeremy Corbyn said “‘70% of Labour’s membership (and voters) wanted a CV and to stay in the EU.” Please provide a link to back this up.

        I will put my cards on the table, I voted to remain in 2016 but in any “people’s vote” I would have voted leave because that was the democratic result. At the time I was a member of the party!

      5. Richard – I’ve posted the links to these 2 videos on several occasions
        Would that be the same referendum that the High Court received a totally unprecedented number of petitions (over 200) applying to have the result set aside because of various wrongdoings by Brexit. The Supreme Court Justices ruled in Dec16 that they were unable to make a ruling because the referendum result had ‘No standing in Law and whether to implement the result or not was a purely political decision’

  7. It’s never going to happen. We need to heal the divisions among those who identify as left caused by the people’s vote. Supporters of the EU need to acknowledge that the people’s vote campaign was Mandleson’s idea and a means to split the party and take back control. It was never going to force a second referendum. No future leader from the centrist right will call for another referendum for at least 20-30 years. What is needed now is above all else, a campaign to save the NHS because if Labour doesn’t win the next election I believe American healthcare corporates will move in en masse as soon as we’re locked into a trade deal. Starmer won’t resign, he needs a push

    1. I agree it will never happen, Labour is dead, but there can never be a healing of ‘The Division”. It’s not a division problem, it is a Polar Opposite Faction problem Neoliberalism is not Liberal/Left/Centre (Centrist) it is Thatcherite and it is Tory, it can never align with the Ideologies of Democratic Socialism/Socialism. The only healing we can do is to somehow remove Neoliberalism from the Party, that would require a person that walks on water and turns water to wine, alas that only happens in Fairy Tails. We just have to face it Labour is Dead.

    2. lundiel – “if Labour doesn’t win the next election”.

      tragically lundiel, as “predictable and predicted” right here on starmer being ALLOWED to deceive the members and take charge (by proxy) of the ‘party’, we do NOT at present have a “Labour Party”. What was the “Labour Party” has been captured. It is being eviscerated this very moment. Therefore a true “Labour Party” is not contesting any elections. Until we all grasp this fact, there will be more of the same old same old.

      Old habits die hard, but they must. As up to GE19 election day, i’m begging again. PLEASE we must recognise that.

      The party under seige by starmer and cohorts is NOT the party u want in charge of the NHS or anything other important precious thing.

    3. “Mandleson’s idea and a means to split the party” Exactly! All those people wild about a second vote and Jeremy accepted and wrote Confirmatory Vote into the Party Brexit Policy since Feb 2018, they got themselves into a frenzy over something they already had! Blair, Campbell, Mandelson played a very clever game because it was the mass Remain hysteria that kicked off the Brexit Bandwagon resulting in no one hearing the very important message Corbyn was trying to deliver! Geeezas Humans are so Fucking Stupid!

      1. John Thatcher “I am talking about those folk, and you are one of them, who were taken in by the blandishments of the second vote gang, ”

        And I am talking about people like you who were convinced by right wing extremists and Brexit fanatics that a confirmatory vote would be anti-democratic, what an irony!

      2. It is sad to see how many Leave/Remain fanatics still can’t see how ‘they’ cost us GE19! JC rightfully saw a confirmatory vote as the only Democratic Way to prevent a Damaging Tory Deal, I am sure he mentioned something in those lines at PMQs even before Conference 2018. While those two bandwagons broke off from the Main consequential/circumstantial Group of UK Labour Party Activists and Jeremy Corbyn to go and get hysterical about Brexit, they stopped hearing the message of the issues REALLY Mattered! The NHS, Our Human Rights, Hungry Children, Homelessness, End to 0 Hour Contract, Workers Rights ie Paid Holidays, Sick Pay, Ma/Paternity Leave, Elderly Care, Decent Education, Free Uni, Free FUCKING Super Fast Coast to Coast Broadband, Regeneration of Ghosted Towns and Town Centres, Green Revolution, Ending Greed Wars, Recognising The Palestinian State, Oh and just, about 180 other extremely important issues.
        With their votes and continued Activism we would have lived an entirely different life by today! The saddest thing is that they are all still in denial wanting to blame Jeremy, blame remain/leave, here is the thing about GE2019 though. If you voted anything other than UK Labour Party GE2019, If you Campaigned Against The UK Labour Party or Alienated Jeremy any further than the obvious, well then you own your share in this nightmare of today! We had a Once in a lifetime opportunity (for the second time!) to End 42 Years of Tory HELL and have a UK Labour Party led Government which would have changed the 80/20% PLP landscape dramatically, it would have given Jeremy a whole lot more clout! EVERYTHING that niggled before GE2019 could have been sorted out MUCH EASIER than they are with this Inbred Buffoon and his LOTO bitch on a leash!
        Now we have what we have, we have to deal with that and decide what’s next, we need an opposition Party, The UK Labour Party is Dead and The Neolabour Party are Neoliberal Tories and quite a bit more nasty than The Conservative Party Tories! Where do we go from here!? The Farmers Field at dusk to scrap for reject/left behind Potatoes, in the near future!?
        C’est La Vie!

    4. Lundiel, you talk about healing divisions but you never stop criticising Remainers. As for a ‘peoples vote’ being Mandy’s idea, what nonsense! You are trying to create more divisions by trying to tie in a ‘Labour’ hate figure to a perfectly reasonable and democratic suggestion that it might just be sensible to ask voters if they still think the same, THREE YEARS after the referendum.

      1. The whole people’s vote campaign was rotten to the core and full of factions angling for power. The main protagonists were ‘Petie’ Mandleson’s faction and Roland Rudd’s gang of LibDems. They were all in it for personal power and mugs like you were conned all along
        You can’t accept reality. No one will call for a second referendum in 3 years, that you could think such a thing shows how detached from reality you are.

      2. Do you think its sensible to ask someone if they voted correctly in the last GE? Maybe have a rerun? Why not ask a parent if they regret having their child after a few years?

        And what are people like yourself going to do if the vote goes leave again? Don’t even think of trying to say that you (or other guardian readers) would accept it this time.

        You’ve had plenty of opportunities to move to your beloved EU, yet you haven’t. Why not?

      3. Lundiel, in your tetchy reply to me you’ve demostrated a fanatisism for Brexit which allows absolutely no room for alternative voices. The difference between us is, as a democratic socialist I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask people after they have seen the goods if they still want to buy them. Whereas if the goods are perceived to be faulty you do not want anyone to have a right of return. You do not display the characteristics of a democratic socialist. It won’t take three years for a majority to realise that Brexit was bad for Britain, it’s happening now.

      4. Here’s another insight into the campaign
        It should give you some measure of what they thought of Corbyn, they saw him as the enemy.
        “It was businesspeople with an interest in politics against New Labour veterans looking for one last victory”
        “In talks between the Tories and Labour to find a compromise Brexit deal, Labour’s Brexit spokesman Keir Starmer also insisted that the government sign up to a referendum. ”
        “With the appropriate leadership of the Labour party, we could have done it,” says Wilson.”

      5. NVLA “Do you think its sensible to ask someone if they voted correctly in the last GE? ”

        Yes, why do you think we even have General Elections?

      6. You, and people like you refuse to recognise the truth of what went on, and you will have to accept part of the responsibility for destroying the Labour Party. Now we are in a position where the sooner the LP is gone, the better for the Left, because “soft left” folk will not be able to fantasise about “winning back the LP” and the real job of winning people over to decent policies that the country desperately needs and will never get from the LP.

      7. You’ve lost touch with reality
        You can’t even find a credible leader to coalesce behind.

      8. John Thatcher ‘You, and people like you refuse to recognise the truth of what went on,”

        John because you cannot argue against the logic of my position, except by ignoring it and going off on a tangent, you try to maintain that I don’t understand. The problem for you and the other Brexit fanatics on here is I understand only too well.

        What Lexiters won’t accept is that they were only a small rump on the left supporting Brexit and by doing so they went against Corbyn and thereby undermined him.

      9. There is no socialist case for returning to membership in an unchangeably antisocialist organisation. The EU’s restrictions on taxation, deficit spending and nationalisation are carved in stone- it is impossible to alter any of them. Why even pretend otherwise? And why keep this dead issue alive when all keeping it alive can do is keep making the defeat of the Tories impossible? The EU has never permitted humane, egalitarian economic or social welfare policies in any of its member states and it would have been impossiblt to carry out Corbyn’s economic policies and stay in the EU.

      10. Ken Burch, if everything you said was true I would agree with you but in fact hardly any of it is true, you are just re-stating the UKIP/right wing position which was pushed to an inordinate degree by the right wing media.

        Policies in the EU are made by agreement and we had a large part in formulating them but they can also be changed by agreement. At one of the Labour Conferences, a group of left trade unionists and MPs brought out a booklet called ‘The Left Case For Remain’, it answered your points.

        As for forgetting about the past and moving on. In 1975 I had the same view as you and didn’t want to join the Common Market but since then I’ve moved on. However, Brexit fanatics on here live in the past and never will move on therefore when they are challenged they don’t like it and become abusive.

      11. I am not a “Brexit fanatic” as I have pointed out to you before. Neither am I an idiot that thinks the EU is anything other than an organisation, increasingly organised along neoliberal lines, though more reformable than the whole world. I am not actually talking about the EU at all, that is done and dusted. I am talking about those folk, and you are one of them, who were taken in by the blandishments of the second vote gang, even though it was pointed out again and again what the real purpose of the call for a second vote was. You personally were warned through these pages by various folk, what the outcome would be. You ignored those warnings, and now you refuse to accept responsibility for the resultant dislocation from large swathes of the traditional Labour vote. Bloody grow up.

      12. You are trying to create more divisions by trying to tie in a ‘Labour’ hate figure to a perfectly reasonable and democratic suggestion…

        And of course, you NEVER spouted the mandelslime-esque bullshit that to want to leave was promoting the toerag grand plan, did you?

        No, YOU went to the extreme and called anyone and EVERYONE ‘xenophobic fascists’ – amongst other baseless slurs.

        So before you even think of replying, just remember your own part in creating the division.

      13. John Thatcher “You, and people like you refuse to recognise the truth of what went on, and you will have to accept part of the responsibility for destroying the Labour Party.”

        John, you make no sense but I can see why you try to make this point. You and the avid Brexiters are the ones who undermined Labour and Corbyn by arguing against him. I on the other hand agreed with Corbyn and supported him.

        The truth is, you cared more about supporting the Brexit vote than you did about supporting Corbyn!

      14. @Jack

        GE tomorrow then…

        I think not. There is no buyers remorse or long distance selling clause. Did you go out and try to convince people to vote remain?

        All I needed to vote leave was the library.

      15. JackT
        Was the CV a winner takes all or best of three
        What were the thresholds 51/49 60/40

      16. Doug – In the event of a Labour win I believe the proposal was to have 2 options. A Labour negotiated Brexit or Remain.

      17. Labour Brexit would have made it 2 – 0 to Leave
        Remain would have made it 1 – 1
        You people really really do not get democracy do you

  8. If they do not Condemn Israel as an Apartheid Regime and Zionism as a Terrorist Ideology and Expel all Zionists Jews and Non-Jews, replace JLM/LFI/etc with Non/Anti Zionist Jewish Groups JLV etc and a thorough Police assisted investigation into severe Black, Muslim, Other Minorities, including Black/Non-Zionist Jews 2015 to 2020 as a First Priority, I will not be interested! The Party has been held Hostage and Racially Abused by Racist Zionist Jewish/Non-Jewish Terrorists for more than long enough!
    Then we can address Saudi A, West Papua, etc, etc, etc, etc, This Government’s alignment and normalisation of Tyrants and Fascists, Julian Assange, The NHS The Planet etc, etc, etc, etc, Brexit Deal Renegotiations with The EU, for a non buffoon version!

  9. IT certainly appears that a good number of members of the Labour party fail to see the damage done to the Labour party by ignoring the democratic mandate of a vote to leave.ITs not rocket science and to keep ignoring the “bleeding obvious” has contributed to the onward demise of the Labour party.Unbelievable.and not difficult to see why so many people including those that have been sacrificed by the Labour party don’t trust Labour in government…IT should be renamed the Democratic alliance of neo liberal lemmings party…very sad 😢 wasted years!

    1. Joseph, for some reason you appear to have convinced yourself that by asking voters if they are still of the same opinion, it is ignoring their previous decision. Particularly when they made their original decision more than three years earlier!

      You are not alone in thinking like this, it is a common theme among those who under no circumstances wanted to give voters the choice to be able to reconsider their first decision.

      1. I voted labour in 97.

        ….Ditto ’01 (With a fair amount of trepidation)

        And after a battle to suppress the urge to vomit , I did so again in ’05 Well, now I wanna change my mind…All those results (and all since) were undemocratic.

        Jesus wept.

      2. Toffee – So you are now agreeing with Jack, voters should be allowed to change their mind.

      3. Toffee – So you are now agreeing with Jack, voters should be allowed to change their mind.

        Oh, DO button it, retard.

      4. Steve, the point is that the antisocialist, antiworker, antidemocratic goal of stopping Brexit wasn’t worth dooming Labour to defeat. The result in ’19 proves, once and for all, that Labour can never win a GE as a Remain/Rejoin party. It proves Starmer’s goal in pushing for Labour to go Remain was to guarantee a Tory landslide, that he could never have believed it could be beneficial to Labour’s chances to go Remain.

        Since Remain/Rejoin has to mean electoral defeat, what’s the point?

      5. “The result in ’19 proves, once and for all, that Labour can never win a GE as a Remain/Rejoin party. ”
        Exactly. And it’s the reason you hear no talk of the EU or new referendum from New Labour …and nor will you for a couple of decades, by which time the EU, if it exists, will be a different much diminished club.

      6. lundiel – The only thing the 19GE proved is that ‘constructive ambiguity’ isn’t the way forward. Month after bloody month of prevarication pissed all over any credibility and trust that Corbyn may have once have had.

      7. Steve, face reality…if he’d done what you wanted and taken the right-wing allout Remain position, Labour would have lost EVERY seat north of Birmingham for at least the next twenty years. If it had gone all out Leave, it could have lost another twenty seats in the South. There was NO position that Labour could have taken on Brexit that would have produced a Labour victory, which is precisely WHY Starmer had no business dredging that already-settled issue back up from the depths.

      8. kenburch – It is more than a little ironic that you refer to the Remain campaign as a RW policy when the whole Brexit mess was something that was initiated and supported by RW Tories The vast majority of Labour supported Remain.

  10. as a democratic socialist I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask people after they have seen the goods if they still want to buy them. Whereas if the goods are perceived to be faulty you do not want anyone to have a right of return

    And, pray, what all this utter bollocks about??

    We had forty-three bleedin’ years of the EU, you complete dolt.

    Democratic socialist my arse AND yours. Honest to Christ, it’s no bastard wonder that party’s hearing its death knell if you’re still fanatically supporting the very thing that poisoned it.

    1. Toffee the Tory pretending he doesn’t understand, a typical reaction of a fanatic.

      1. Pretending I don’t understand?

        Yeah alright lad, carry on putting the anal into your banal analogies, Mr. I know more about the labour heartlands than you think 😏

  11. Going back to the article:
    So, people want their vote to be “respected” even though their decisions to leave the EU were based on lies and disinformation and Brexit is causing untold damage and havoc to jobs, the economy and the Union!? Some are already realising this but it hasn’t yet hit may others.
    They should have listened to Jeremy Corbyn and not believed all the propaganda against him either.
    So no grovelling apology is due to them.

    1. The trouble is , the remain argument was equally full of holes with lies aplenty. The EU was never as bad as some Brexiteers clamed, and equally, it wasn’t the fount of all virtue either, as some of the more air headed pro EU folk claimed. In the end, I am heartily sick of hearing both sides claiming the high ground when there isn’t any, but I am especially sick of Remainers who refuse to accept their part in the defeat of Corbyn and the Left.

      1. To Lundie. I think you’ll find that Nissan were heavily bribed by our government

  12. Yes, why do you think we even have General Elections?

    Ok brains. Tell us, in your infinite wisdom, the two main reasons the rags were elected in 2015?

    CLUE: One of them being the two ed’s were utterly clueless…So, what did the rags offer that the others didn’t, hmmm?

  13. Wanda Lozinska01/07/2021 AT 8:13 AM

    So, people want their vote to be “respected” even though their decisions to leave the EU were based on lies and disinformation

    I see. You’re telling people they’re too thick to decide for themselves what they want and what they don’t? That they cant differerntiate?

    Newsflash: Politicians tell lies. ALL OF THEM…Including EU politicians.

    1. Toffee the Tory “I see. You’re telling people they’re too thick to decide for themselves what they want and what they don’t? ”

      Says someone who didn’t want voters to have the choice to decide if they wanted to change their mind.

      But enough of them were like you, thick enough to vote for Johnson and the Tories.

  14. I think the next Labour leaders speech should be more up to date and address the racist elements infesting our party at every level, particularly those directed at our German Brothers and Sisters, I K Starmer as I am sure I will continue to be your leader has been informed that racist jokes and anti German tropes have been doing the rounds in Merseyside, here are some examples
    1/ Do you know in WW2, the Germans bombed our chippies.
    2/During the battle of Britain three German Focke-Wulf fighters went into cloud cover, and only one of the fockers came out.
    3/ During a European cup game against Borussia Mönchengladbach thousands of possible Labour members were seen humming the ‘Dam Busters March’ after a Liverpool win, these repulsive and racist tunes have no place in the Labour party and I have instructed our resident spy Assaf Kaplan fresh from his duties in IDF special forces to identify the culprits ASAP and expel them or do to them whatever his special skills provide, finally this is not my latest version of wokeism or from one of my focus groups since I am very clever I am a knight you know and went to the very best school in the area, it was ‘approved’.

    1. N.B. For those not familiar with approved schools or those born after 1970
      An approved school was a type of residential institution in the United Kingdom to which young people could be sent by a court, usually for committing offences. When Assange vacates his cell in Belmarsh prison, Starmer should be sent there.

  15. MSM will never allow a Socialist to become PM. Michael Foot found this out as did Jeremy. Too close for comfort in 2017 MSM organised itself to ensure this could never happen again (Brexit was also a shock) & the Labour Party Blairites did the same using accusations of anti-Semitism to cull un-wanted Socialists. New Reactionary News Channels & the sell off of Channel 4 to a preferred buyer will guarantee the end of a Socialist Labour Party.

    1. The MSM and 70% of the party itself, it would appear.

      And yet the two main supporters/protagonists of stammer’s shithousery on this site claim to be ‘democratic socialists’ and also claimed to have supported Corbyn’s socialism.

      AFAIC stammer’s shithousery was (And still IS) non-compatible with Corbyn’s socialism.

      One now claims to have only voted stammer as ‘best of a bad bunch’. While continuing to dismiss corbyn’s record and extol stammer’s

      The other starts crying like edwina currie with a losing lottery ticket, and blames everything & everyone else when the consequences of his support for stammer (That he was continually warned about) are laid squarely at his feet.

  16. But enough of them were like you, thick enough to vote for Johnson and the Tories.

    Oh aye? When was this, soft shite? C’mon – let’s see the proof? We know you’re incapable, so I’ll even invite your centrist stammerist mate to answer on your behalf, if he chooses to? It was too easy last time – this time’ll be no different.

    Or are you now gonna claim you mean it’s becuse I voted to leave the EU it was a vote for the ‘rags?

    In which case, I’ll refer you to an earlier post I made, that you’re still to answer – because you can’t answer without demostrating QED, your own hypocrisy.

    What next, jackass? Gonna deny calling ever me a troll for pointing out your idiocy? Your ‘xenophobic racist knuckledragging fascist’ slurs were ‘just banter’ were they?

    Inapable, incompetent cretin. You make me almost glad stammer never got near negotiatiing brexit.

      1. Nope.

        Guess again. Pitifully anticipated change of tactic by the way. Wee stevie’s taught you well.

        Now, provide proof and answer the charge of you casuing the divisions you cry that the people you disagreed with (And slurred) caused.


  17. Everything will be ok. I’ve read that Angela Rayner is a dead cert for next leader. Can’t wait.

  18. I am with Wanda on this one. I am in my 70’s and one of those ‘citizens of nowhere’ who with a very modest pension was able to exercise their FOM. I was not able to vote in the referendum.

    I am supposed to ‘respect’ the vote of those of the 17.4m who have removed my rights, based on ignorance and the lies and disinformation peddled by the Leave campaign (and not least the media) during a referendum which was originally deemed as ‘advisory’, and the continuing carnage over the past 5 years? (And we haven’t seen the half of it yet….) Being told to ‘suck it up’ ‘get over it’ etc. etc.

    I do respect anyone who supports exit from the EU, but who have considered arguments for that position and as much as the whole thing has caused me so much anxiety and worry, it would have been easier to accept had the process been done in a sensible and orderly manner.

    However, how can I respect the vote of those that through ignorance and apathy – albeit because of an education system being continually trashed and being bombarded with the likes of Murdoch’s media – blamed the EU for the ills of a country being raped and pillaged by it’s own government. Much like the recent quote “well we have more food banks than we did with Labour” at a recent bye election……

    For the record, I was a member of the LP since the late 60’s, but allowed my membership to lapse on the very day of the pay off to the so called ‘whistle blowers’. I am utterly disgusted with Keir Starmer and his namesake must be turning in his grave.

    1. The rights and wrongs of the Brexit vote are neither here nor there that argument is dead for a generation. What is still live because of those who will not own to it, is the way Corbyn was undermined by many who claimed to support him who insisted on going for a second vote, and simply refused, or did not understand the political damage that was being done by that insistence, and still bloody don’t.

      1. John – I don’t remember Corbyn having the courage of his own convictions and arguing his case. All we got from Jeremy was month after bloody month of him hiding behind ‘constructive ambiguity’ which destroyed any trust the electorate once had in him.
        Unfortunately for Labour Corbyn pissed all over his own USP.

      2. Steve, face reality- going all-out Remain could only have cost Labour even MORE seats. There was never any chance of Labour winning in ’19 or whenever the next GE was held fighting to the bitter end in support of returning to an organisation that had left the Labour heartlands totally out in the cold and had brought economic benefits nowhere in the UK but London, the South and Scotland.

  19. I am supposed to ‘respect’ the vote of those of the 17.4m who have removed my rights, based on ignorance and the lies and disinformation peddled by the Leave campaign (and not least the media) during a referendum which was originally deemed as ‘advisory’, and the continuing carnage over the past 5 years? (And we haven’t seen the half of it yet….) Being told to ‘suck it up’ ‘get over it’ etc. etc.

    In that case, are you supposed to respect the election results of each and every election that went against the way you voted?

    Perhaps not.

    But you had to live with them – Same as me, and everyone else who’s vote went against any election result. The electorate knew full well that if the rags got in in ’15 they’d set the ball rolling. Nobody else was gonna offer people their say.

    …And got in they did. Labour offered no alternative to toerag austerity, so the referendum promise was probably THE major factor in a returned toerag government.

    …And when it came to the referendum, the majority subsequently voted out. And labour PROMISED to RESPECT that result.

    ‘Advisor’y my arse. The ’75 referendum was ‘Advisory’ too… stammer and the 70% committed political seppuku by reneging on their promise – desite the constant warnings.

    And still they’re going further down the pan.


    Because just like in 2015 – they offer NO alternative to an even worse economically illiterate, self-serving and detached-from-reality, toerag party.

    And so, when stammer shat on democracy, the people doubled down on their resolve by re-electing the rags because they’d had their say and wanted somethibg done about it. The signs were always there that the British people were hacked off with the EU.

  20. Toffee the Tory Troll, going off on one again, not as sweet as his name suggests. Better change to Humbug.

    1. jackass the stammerite tory enabler, chatting his usual shite and unable to back himself up – as per.

      Tell us, Mr I know more than you think about the labour heartlands…

      howocome labour lost all those seats last time out, if brexit was NOT what they wanted?

      You’re the man in the know, after all. You gonna answer, or is there anything else you want to call me for calling out your cryarsing hypocrisy? 🙂

  21. Toffee the Tory Troll “is there anything else you want to call me for calling out your cryarsing hypocrisy?”

    Actually there is thanks, Toffee the Tory Troll, the gift who keeps on giving. A hypocrite lecturing about hypocrisy.

    1. Again, calling ME a ‘troll’ and general name calling, without any substance, l;aughably thinking your shit will stick.

      It won’t, lad. Unless you first show us all where I supposedly ‘confessed’ to actually voting to tory??

      Then you can show us all where you DIDN’t label leave-voting labour voters on here as ‘xenophobes, fascists and knuckledraggers’

      Or maybe you’d like to expand on your claim to knowing about the labour heartlands by explaining WHY they lost those seats last time out – you caim you know, so tell us?


      Ok, maybe you can tell us why you complain about stammerism these days when you supported the second ref, knowing full well it lose the election?

      But we know that already. He shat on you. You wanted the EU; and was quite happy to forego a socialist labour governemnt in order to remain. Now stammer’s sold you down the river and it’s all everyone else’s fault.

      But carry on just throwing out alliterative slurs like ‘toffee tory troll’ with all the originality you’d expect from a six year old spoilt bastard. Water off a duck’s to me, lad. My conscience is absolutely clear, and that’s why I’m able to articulate myself and back up my accusations.

      Now run along….again.

      1. Toffee- “Water off a duck’s to me, lad. My conscience is absolutely clear, and that’s why I’m able to articulate myself and back up my accusations. “

        So you keep telling us, over and over again, have you managed to convince yourself yet?

      2. You told of any differences between stammerism & conservatism, yet?

  22. No answer agains, wee fella?

    Not prepared to tell us of any differences between the stammerism YOU enabled (Even more so than your part-time ally) and the unchallenged conservatism the country suffers as a result?

    Can’t possibly think why you WOULDN’T want to do so… After all, stammer was merely the best of a bad bunch, wasn’t he?

    Like I’ve repeatedly stated on the record, my conscience remains clear. Your reticence reflects your guilty conscience.

    1. Toffee the Tory, you’ve not once backed up your allegation that I supported Starmer, so leave out all your nonsense about you being accused of this or that without proof. You are a gold plated hypocrite and a Tory Troll.

      1. Starmer is the reason we have Spaffers Brexit. Sure Mays wasn’t ideal from your perspective Jack, but you had that option or Johnson.

        Starmer helped ensure we had the shittest of brexits. Regardless of your support or lack thereof, the guy take a massive portion of blame for being a dick.

      2. Haven’t I jackass?

        Still denying you called people racist xenophobic knuckledraggers when they warned you about stammers game?

        Still going on about the second referendum you thought was a good idea…and still do?

        Well that was stammers position, weren’t it?

        Until he abandoned it… You’re still harping on about it like it’s the only viable option when the fucking things defunct.

        What a gawp.

      3. Toffee – Is there a reason why you’re reluctant to post links to your evidence

      4. And so the same pattern continues.

        Toffee owns one of the duo, the other pathetically attempts to rescue the ‘victim’.

        Remember when I posted evidence about you and your denial you reckoned remainer types gave us the NHS & welfare state?

        Or the one where you denied you’d ever mentioned the 37% that didn’t vote in the referendum?

        I don’t need ‘proof’ in jackasses case. He continues as he goes on.

        From being knuckle-dragging xenophobes to becoming rabid Zionists the second Keith sold him out, there are several people had the jackass treatment… And laughed their tits off at him, as they do you.

        …When you’re not annoying them, which is every other post you make.

      5. Toffee – You’ve never published any credible evidence to support either of your accusations above. Dissembling what people write removed from any context isn’t evidence it is desperately clutching at straws.
        I guess you must have your own reasons for not providing the links requested. We can only guess why.

  23. Oh .. and you’re STILL to tell ANYONE the difference between stammerism and conservatism aren’t you, wee fella?

    Another diffident, stammerite tory enabler afraid he might give himself away if he answers.

    Too late. We KNOW why you won’t. We don’t require proof – it’s in your refusal to answer.

    So until you do, don’t expect to be listened to with any consideration.

    Own your shortcomings. Accept you never wanted a socialist labour government if it meant leaving the EU.

    Accept that the EU is not – and NEVER will be, socialist.

    Accept Corbynist socialism and stammerism are non- compatible.

    And finally accept you’ve lumbered the nation with your gobshitery.

    1. Toffee – But you are the one making all the accusations, I’m simply asking you to substantiate them. Bluster and rhetoric are not a substitute.
      Any bees you have in your bonnet about my political opinions are your problem not mine.

      1. The accusations I’ve repeatedly substantiated against you are on the record for all to see.

        We wouldn’t have a NHS or a Welfare System if our predecessors had all been as timid as you

        Explain that in the context it was written. It’s tantamount to stating that remainer types gave us the NHS & welfare system. You brave remainers… Not us ‘timid leavers’…

        (For anyone interested, I suggest you read both the initial post I linked to and the subsequent posts from the gobshite. All will become clear about who said what and the context it was written in.)

        So there it is. For the last time, because I’ve no inclination to keep evidencing what I’ve already proved time after time, merely because you continue to deny your own bullshit.

        Now fuck off and die.

      2. Toffee – You can’t be serious, “tantamount” ???
        Come back when you can present some actual evidence rather than your twisted imaginatings of what I might have meant. You’re making yourself into f’ ing sad joke.

  24. Still hiding down here instead of answering simple questions on more recent threads.

    Another of your weasel tactics.

    Still denying you never mentioned anything about the 37% what didn’t vote in the referendum, too, no doubt.


    1. Toffee – Don’t be silly I was responding to something you had posted 16 minutes earlier.
      You’re a joke.

      1. Excuses, excuses, excuses. 😏

        Everyone, but EVERYONE has got your number, soft ollies

      2. And I posted the question on the other, most recent thread at 4:17 and youve STILL refused to answer at time of writing.

        But I guess you hadn’t looked, eh? You, who travels each and every thread for my posts, and gets alerts for them.

        Yes YOU – who has confessed to going out of your way to get a ride out of me and described it as ‘exhilarating’ when I do BUT. whinges like a bitch when I give you what for.

        Bearing those things in mind, you’re in NO position to label ANYBODY a ‘joke’ , knob-head. 😏

  25. Twisted imaginings?

    Like your one that I’m a self confessed Tory voter? 😏

    Nowt twisted about you not giving the difference between stammerism & conservatism though, eh?

    1. Toffee – You’re floundering and I shouldn’t laugh but you are looking progressively sadder with each response.

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