Bizarre ‘no ifs no buts’ school tweet shows it’s strange weather on planet Starmer
Labour leader Keir Starmer has decided to break with months of his collaborative approach with the Tories and talk tough – by demanding they send children back to school, no matter what.
And he decided to do it in one of the worst right-wing rags.
Just in case anyone had forgotten his slap in the face to the Black Lives Matter movement, or his failure to protect left-wing Jews, Starmer went to the Daily Mail to issue his ‘ultimatum’, a rag that has ceaselessly attacked the left, whipped up anti-immigrant sentiment and was forced to issue an apology for smears against left-wing group Jewish Voice for Labour.
And in case anyone missed it, he tweeted to underline it – a tweet that has so far received more than 4,500 almost uniformly negative responses.
Starmer chose to talk tough on an issue of massive importance to parents and unions – and, not for the first time, to do it against their interests.
And he chose to do it just as the emergence of a second coronavirus wave becomes clear – and yet more studies confirm the ease and speed with which the virus can spread within and from schools and create new waves of infection.
Starmer dressed up his demand as concern for the students who last week were robbed of their A-level grades in a plainly discriminatory move to advantage the children of the wealthy over poor and ethnic minority students. But it is perfectly possible to demand action to reverse the theft without demanding kids who haven’t even taken their exams yet go back to school regardless of safety.
Especially when the kids and families from poor or ethnic minority backgrounds who have been robbed of their grades are the same ones most at risk from a new virus spike.
By next month and with the Tories pressing ahead with lifting lockdown in spite of the clear signs of a new peak in the pandemic, forcing kids and teachers back to school might be insanely dangerous – but ‘no ifs, no buts’, Starmer doesn’t just ‘want’ them back in the classroom. He ‘expects’ it.
Starmer has failed for months to stand up and shout as the Tories have caused the needless loss of tens of thousands of lives through their delays, incompetence, arrogance and sheer intent. And now he decides to speak out just in case the Tories chicken out as their recklessness continues to wreck the country and inevitably take lives.
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“Talks tough” – I agree with you?
Oooohhh! Stammer, you absolute BRUTE!
(And what are you gonna do fi they’re not – stamp yer feet? )
Wow, HE expects them back.
Well, that’s that settled then. Or perhaps not.
Starmer is ignoring the main issues: would it be safe? what measures does he proposed to ensure the safety of pupils, school’s staff and their families?
I
That’ll be because he’s not remotely arsed about the safety aspects.
When asked if teachers should be forced to go to work he said ‘Well we’ll have to look at that’. Well, he’s looked at it and decided that putting out the appearance of a badass is more important that people’s safety.
Pathetic. I remember when liam byrne tried to look like he was the boyo…And that didn’t end well, neither.
‘Talking tough’ isn’t quite how I’d put it. Vacuous collaborative posturing perhaps. Here’s my earlier post on exactly this subject. ( https://lovesexwomenmenpoliticspoetrylifedeath.wordpress.com/ ) Rantings From The Heart.
Posted bynoelstevenson12August 16, 2020
“No ifs, no buts, no equivocation.”
Kier Starmer has suddenly become forceful and outspoken. He’s found his voice and left behind his bland middle of the road ‘say nothing much’ policy. Beware Boris Johnson, for the worm has turned, the leader of the opposition has come out swinging . . .
Oh, but hang on a minute. Starmer was talking about the need for schools to re-open in September, supporting unequivocally and without qualification Boris Johnson’s hard drive to get this done (there’s a handy phrase) no matter what.
Phew! Magnolia Kier threw me for a minute there. His definiteness and almost passion (almost) led me to momentarily believe he may at last have found his opposition mojo, about to round on this failed government whipping up Labour’s long sleeping attack dogs to exploit Johnson’s weakness and begin the long trek to lead us toward a far far better place. It was disconcerting to say the very least. Change can be quite difficult I increasingly find.
No, Mr Starmer is not going to oppose, rock the boat, criticise, do or say anything that smacks of opposition which could in turn make him the focus of attack by the Tories and their tame right-wing media pals. He enjoys his almost incognito unopposing avoidance of controversy, a political narrator rather than participant. Behr in The Guardian commented, the Tories ‘can’t lay a glove on him.’ What Behr failed to say, however, was that this is because Starmer sits in his corner and doesn’t come out and fight. He continues to channel his energy into supporting the Tories and rebuilding the Labour party as Tory Party 2, which will after all be an appropriate launchpad for his frequent sallies forth to agree with them at every turn.
It’s not so long ago that Starmer was asked by an interviewer what would be the Labour Party’s position if the government pressed working people to return to work in potentially unsafe conditions, and he answered: ‘We’ll have to take a look at that.’ I never thought I’d hear a Labour leader say such a thing, effectively a betrayal of the working people his party claims to represent. And now we see the master of equivocation throwing his full weight behind Boris Johnson, no ifs . . . no buts.
Keir Starmer talks sh1t, is more accurate
Meaningless twaddle that his advisers hope will go down well with Tory voters. As long as he doesn’t greatly upset any particular group he can go on making tough talking soundbites to give an impression of competence and leadership. His words will echo the sentiments of many Mail readers but I have serious doubts that anyone will ever look at Keith and think, “there’s the next prime minister”. Even faced with a bumbling idiot like Johnson, Starmer and his advisers are not up to the job.
Even faced with a bumbling idiot like Johnson, Starmer and his advisers are not up to the job.
Exactly! THE worst government that’s EVER blighted these shores and stammer does his level best to make them look every bit like the brains trust. If he’s deciding not to prosecute them he’s giving the toerags his full support.
If you’re looking like a toerag, speaking like a toerag and acting like a toerag, there’s no mistaking the fact it makes you a toerag.
Innumeracy really shouldn’t be a subject for advertising itself. Such depths of ignorance culled from the MSM makes even Starmer look good.
There is no ‘new spike’ It’s a fiction manufactured by your new friend – the Tory government and sidekicks.
There is *no* current epidemic : death rates and ICU occupancy are almost invisible.
There *is* a ‘Casedemic’ resulting from a massive surge in the use of a notably unreliable test that has nothing much to do with infection rates.
For those with the wit to understand a bit of easy maths and science, here is a coherent explanation of the phenomenon :
Any ‘theory’ that relies on 99.999% of the planet’s scientists being too stupid to see the ‘truth’ of it is only ever going to attract a tiny minority of followers.
Surprising that a genius like yourself doesn’t explain to your poor intellectually underdeveloped audience the flaw in THAT line of reasoning. You know, rather than constantly pointing to what you call the “evidence” produced by that 0.001%
Couldn’t be that you have some motive other than magnanimously trying to help us poor fools make sense of all this technical stuff we’re too stupid to understand – could it?
Any evidence, any proof any data, any hope of you producing any to support your claim that “ 99.99% …” disagrees with what RH stated with supporting evidence . Or is your slinging of slime smear and innuendo frequently sprinkled with ad hominem, your par for the course response.
brianbotou – That’s a bit rich coming from someone who quotes from websites that proselytises conspiracy theories, promotes antivax nonsense and pushes Russian propaganda.
Steve H. I am flabbergasted. Can’t you make judgment calls? “Russian propaganda”, who told you so, British/American propagandists? I suggest you read Craig Murray’s latest bog on the subject of propaganda then apologise to Brian. craigmurray.org.uk
lundiel – For goodness sake just take a look at the site. I’ve yet to come across a positive review of globalresearch.ca by any fact checking site. Have you found one?
“Hello” SteveH, anybody in? Global research published material from many sources, some good, some not so good. It’s up to the reader to sort the wheat from the chaff. Fact check sites only exist to tell us not to visit similar non MSM/independent journalist websites. They are the product of security services propaganda and are a stopgap until such time that internet censorship is complete.
lundiel – So do lots of other sites (like this one) but they aren’t lambasted by all the fact checking sites.
“Any ‘theory’ that relies on 99.999% of the planet’s scientists being too stupid to see the ‘truth’ of it is only ever going to attract a tiny minority of followers.”
Not really, David. Science is, by definition, explorative and diagnostic. BBC Sounds still has a R4 series online which although looking at the use of science (i.e. scientific methods) in the smoking and carbon dioxide (global worming/warming) issues (How They Made us Doubt Everything) highlights how people with commercial objectives (‘vested interests’) routinely misdirect and misconstrue said scientific methodologies. Listen to the 10-part series if you are able, or maybe pick up a copy of Ben Goldacre ‘bad science’ and explore/ re-explore this.
You might then realise how much of the SARS-CoV2 is subject to the same machinations and manipulation and how it is scientists who most directly recognise this and that it is some of them who are discovering a political radicalism (which Marx foresaw) in response.
qwertboi 10:29am – “highlights how people with commercial objectives (‘vested interests’) routinely misdirect and misconstrue said scientific methodologies.”
To apply that argument to the 99% (of scientists) one would have to answer the question “What’s in it for them?”
Is it seriously your contention that in this instance 99% of the world’s scientists have been bribed to risk their careers by lying?
The truth about such vested interests (big tobacco, big pharma being prime examples) is that they bribe or blackmail a TINY number of scientists or other ‘experts’ to fake their results and muddy the pool of evidence – the objective is always to contest and deflect existing damning research and give corporate bosses and spokespeople “plausible deniability.”
Its utility is in delaying profit-restricting legislation for years.
The purpose is ALWAYS to cast doubt on the MAJORITY SCIENTIFIC VIEW.
It doesn’t take much thought to realise it’s the only way it can work – corrupting/bribing the majority to cast doubt on the minority is beyond ridiculous.
The simple facts are that if you look for things you will find them, but this whole casedemic argument doesn’t take into consideration the effects of lockdown, people social distancing, and wearing masks. This smacks of Trumpism to me, where he proclaims the more you look the greater the occurrence, so is inferring that if you stop looking it will just go away. Personally I don’t think viruses act like that.
Correct rotzeichen, neither does “casedemic” take into account that there’s no evidence indicating any shortage of vulnerable people in the population to feed another peak of infections and deaths.
When lockdown measures, mask-wearing and testing are dispensed with or even just reduced, the infrastructure is dispersed and foreign travel recommenced, it could be as bad as or worse than before.
People being people, their adherence to rules/good practice will likely be lower in the early phase of each successive peak.
rotzeichen
RH is giving you the opportunity to prove him wrong, do your own research on deaths and ICU occupancy
David McNiven
Not allowed to include people who die in car crashes who have Covid19
FFS
And the answer to Bevin and others on why the rest of the world have made the same mistakes is
The Financial Pandemic
Well David McN the ‘what’s in it for them’ point is not relevant. We’re talking about scientific method rather than
SARS CoV19 here, and scientific method never considers matters of benefit (material or financial). I strongly recommend theR4 ‘How they…’ programme. Non-scientists often fail to appreciate the parameters of scientific method and because I recognise your strongly analytical proclivities (how you argue your points here), I suspect you’d get much more benefit out of the programme’s analysis and objective than most. It could even be life-changing, particularly in the current situation where the limitations and opportunities of science are pivotal to the politics of the current epi/pandemic.
qwertboi, the question is whether the consensus scientific view that CV is serious and requires more not less intensive countermeasures is the correct approach – or whether the minority view is correct – that CV was and is trivial, that it’s over anyway and everybody should just go back to work and stop whinging.
Please don’t attempt to lecture me on scientific method – if I didn’t employ it my repairs to military grade laptops, marine chartplotters, cameras and smartphones wouldn’t be successful – and they still are, even though I’m long retired.
Oh – and in case anyone’s wondering, I’m referring to component level diagnosis and repair, not the pathetically semi-skilled try-it-and-see board replacements that are all you’ll get from the Apple “Genius” Bar.
First, let’s look at the arrogance of it. Then, let’s take into account what he is doing with his own children.
After that, step back and look at the bigger picture. Hand wringing all round. It’s almost like they regret icing Corbyn, but cannot bring themselves to admit it. Arse Campbell for example.
Still, elsewhere the Tories are gifting another part of the NHS to Dildo Harding (that’s the one on watch when talk talk lost your personal information).
I’m sure many of you will rejoice, but I cannot see the point in coming here anymore. Too much hand wringing. Except between one another. Which is ironic…
Stay safe, and good luck in the coming shit storm.
Quote from Reuters today:
‘Johnson’s government has been criticised for its handling of the pandemic, with the country recording the highest death toll in Europe, the most severe economic contraction of any major economy so far and multiple occasions where it has been slow to respond to events.The opposition Labour Party said the incompetence was unacceptable.’
I says it all really. And the best Labour can manage is to say that incompetence is unacceptable. Fuck.
I say! Steady on, old chap! It really isn’t cricket to complain of another’s impotence, dontcha know?
noelstevenson12 – The tweets are only a short extract. I suggest you read Starmer’s full article.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8631381/SIR-KEIR-STARMER-writes-response-Boris-Johnson-said-return-school-moral-duty.html
“I won’t just hand over my phone, wallet and pin numbers, I DEMAND you accept them.”
“Mugged? Me? Certainly not.”
I wonder what, in years to come, history will make of the manner in which Labour Party values appear to have been betrayed by certain figures. Because several of its members have behaved in a manner that seriously questions their behaviour.
John Mann, Margaret Hodge, Ian Austin, Ian Mcnicol, Chuka Umunna, now Kier Starmer?
In the past people might have speculated about various loyalties, those in the lower ranks almost being overlooked, in a ‘time to move on’ manner, but now, much of their dubious behaviour has been recorded- ‘The Lobby- it’s there for those who are willing to see! All those questionable Lords!
What a plonker. Showing his true colours. Looks like his perceived power is gone to his head.
I’m pretty sure that ‘the plonker’ we’re talking about here is probably prouder of being one of only 6 living Britons to be *invited* to join the Trilateral Commission than being the leader of Labour.
There’s a touch of Abigail’s Party about Keir Rodney Starmer – middle class aspiration gone wrong.
Steve H, 3.52 pm “ that a bit rich from someone that prioritises ..” Lets see this is someone who uses a “ fact “ checking site which is funded to the tune of $15,000,000 from a propagandist company for a tyrannical dictatorship which likes to chops peoples hands and heads off whilst stoning women to death for supposedly committing adultery whilst engaging in bombing thousands and thousands of innocent men, women plus children besides trying to create a deliberate famine to starve the people. This is a site which Steve H likes to use as a “ fact” checking site.
In addition to, being run by former spooks whose job description involved, amongst other things, besides organising unprovoked invasions plus coups and arming head choppers in the Middle East, to lie and deceive on an industrial scale as their former boss openly boasted about quite recently.
Yet, the gullible and naive believe this is a “ fact” checking site. Your having a laugh Stevie boy 😀😁😂
Other fact checkers are available, please feel free to take your pick
So you don’t deny you use former spook run “ fact “ checking sites which receive millions of dollars from companies that pump out propaganda for tyrannical regimes, supplied with weapons plus personnel from the U.K. gigantic major Tory donating arms companies. Now, that is a revelation. Your supervisor won’t be pleased.
brianbotou – As I said above other fact checkers are available, Are they all wrong.
The main reason I quoted this site was because SB had recently been showing off that he had again been awarded a 100% score from the self same site whilst your Putin supporting antivax site achieved a whole 17% (apparently for being able to spell their name and address correctly)
Before you use my fact checking site, research who is behind it. You’ll find they all have a political agenda. Or did you think they do it for nothing because they are really lovely people?
Lundiel – All the sites I checked said more or less the same. As I’ve already said, please feel free to take your pick. Steve at Skwawkbox is obviously quite proud of his award, he may be disappointed that you are so contemptuous of his 100% score.
“ Other fact checkers are available, please feel free to take your pick” .
Thank you very much here is the other “ fact “ checker you like to employ in your strategy of slime and smear.
Fictitious narratives
Wikipedia cites reporting of an event by corporate media as an indication that it is important. Similarly, corporate media outlets cite other corporate media outlets, reporting on their reporting, even for ideas which have little or no evidential backing. This simple strategy is used to promote fictitious memes, for example, to the narrative of the so-called “War on terror” and the dangers of Islamic extremism. Corporate media massively over-emphasise the dangerous of “terrorism” as opposed to other dangers[5] and portray its perpetrators as overwhelmingly Muslim, when the reality according to Europol is that <1% of terrorist incidents in Europe are by Islamic terrorists.[6] Rebecca Gordon details how since 9/11 the "war on terror" has been used to keep the US population in a state of fear, and how public acceptance of their government's policy of torture has risen as a result.[7]
Bias
Wikipedia's decision to align itself (by its professionalisation) with the powers that be presents a more fundamental problem of bias. Large organisations and companies with public relations and advertising budgets cannot be expected to refrain from seeking to hire Wikipedia editors to minimize or erase evidence of malfeasance and to show their products and services in the best possible light. Does Wikipedia really need over 4000 words on Playstation 3 Accessories, with less than half that number on the House Select Committee on Assassinations, the US government committee which concluded that there was a "high probability" that John F. Kennedy was killed as a result of a conspiracy.
Censorship
but many page histories show an active policy of censorship
Obfuscation
fails to address the central issue of how wealth and power are used to shape public understanding of reality through the commercially-controlled media. While Wikipedia is a fantastic project in many ways, its policies nevertheless codify blindspots very convenient to the powers that be and therefore are likely to remain unaddressed by the ever more professional management layer.
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikipedia/Problems
Steve H 3.52 pm “ and likes to push Russian propaganda “ .
To paraphrase Walter Scott, how you try to spin web of deceit when first you try to deceive. You stated that “ Putin was caught with his trousers down “ concerning the soon to be released British intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament into allegations of Russian interference in British politics, including alleged Russian interference in the 2016 Brexit report which was published in July 2020.
I asked you prior to the publication if there was no factual evidence, documentation, proof that the Russian government had indeed done the things it was being accused of, would you come back and recognise that your initial statement was wrong.
Here is what Craig Murray former U.K. ambassador said “ It is so flawed it is simply tempting to mock it..” It uses material from the Integrity Initiative, a well documented army propaganda outfit working in conjunction with propagandists like David Aaronovitch and Ben Nimmo, a Senior fellow of the Institute of Statecraft another state propaganda outfit which together with the Integrity Initiative was exposed in the November 2018 leak.
Moreover, it also used the testimony of a former ( or not so former spook ) Christopher Steele he of the of the smears concocted against the US President plus of course the Fraudians resident state stenographer Luke Harding, who concocted so many lies against the political prisoner Julian Assange that if Harding’s nose was like Pinocchio he would need a crutch to support it.
The factual case against Russian government interference involving solid proof which would stand up in a court of law was found to be zilch.
Yet, did our resident establishment supporter, who likes to use former spook run “ fact “ checking sites have some backbone and appear after the report was published to face the music.
Answer, a resounding no.
Another slinger of slime and smear against anyone who is not a toady of the establishment and challenges the its narrative. As Jeremy Corbyn found out when he did.
Strummered “Expects ” ,,, bloody EXPECTS , what like England expects every man to do his duty , FFS
Expects , ha , God I bet bone head Cummings is pissing his pants over that one .
What a grade A ,, toe curling , almost excruciatingly embarrassing , rank amateur plonker .
And he’s using that arse wipe material of a rag to run to , to run his mouth off ,,, MASSIVE FAIL ON ALL FRONTS Sir Spanner , keep it up boy , your hole gets deeper by the day.
Steve H, “ the main reason I quoted this site…” Oh, dear one good fact amongst a sea of disinformation, deceit, dishonesty from a “ fact “ checking site funded to a great extent by a professional propaganda outfit for a tyrannical head and head chopping murderous regime which is run by former spooks who their former boss Mike Pompeo said “ We lied We cheated We stole” doesn’t make this a go to site for “fact” checking unless you are trying to discredit and smear someone or some organisation which you habitually are trying to do.
brianbotou – So in your eyes everything is a conspiracy, I guess that explains your love of a site that is renowned for pushing conspiracy theories. 🙄
Piss off back down your 🐰🕳
“So in your eyes everything is a conspiracy…” Oh, dear back to the slinging of slime and smear relying on establishment funded, former spook run “ fact “ checking sites to camouflage its true purpose to discredit anyone or organisation not controlled by them. And now because you have been found out AGAIN have to rely on hoary old discredited chestnuts plus the occasional smack of ad hominem. I told you before tell your supervisor to get you a transfer, your track record of pushing establishment propaganda is less than up to the mark. 🤥🤥🤥
F’ ing hell you don’t half go on.
brianbotou – I’ve made my position clear and if you want to while away the hours trying to tempt me down your 🐰🕳 then please feel free to knock yourself out.
Steve H, “ I’ve made my position clear…” Your usual stock phrase when your slime and smear strategy fails miserably again. Now, I can’t keep this up as long as necessary to illustrate, yet, again that you are an establishment propagandist whose job is to support the establishment narrative and spin their narrative 🤥🤥🤥
brianbotou – Failed at what?
Steve H, 6.09 pm. “ all the sites I checked..”. Yes, well the ones you cite are either funded by people like George Soros, PR companies for tyrannical regimes or the establishment ( which is one and the same in reality) who employ professional propagandists and former spooks who as Mike Pompeo said “ lied cheated and stole”. Looks like a bad case of myopia or cognitive bias or perhaps an idea from your supervisor.
brianbotou – ………and yet surprise, surprise all you have to offer is conspiracy theories (oh and a love of Putin).
“ all you have to offer is ..” So following that logic, according to you WMD and the dodgy dossier was all a “ conspiracy “ .
“ oh and …” Back to your fall back position I see, after being shown up for your totally inadequacy in establishing your quote “ Putin caught with his trousers down and having the backbone to appear on this site after the report was published, flinging smear and slime like a whirling dervish.
Not at all I’m just bored.
Oh for God’s sake. Anything funded by Soros is done to further neoliberalism. That is not a conspiracy theory, it is stated ambition. Therefore, unless you support neoliberalism you would not take your propaganda from sites funded by Soros any more than you’d accept claims by “citizen journalist” Eliot ‘brown Moses’ Higgins and his security service propaganda outlet Bellingcat as being true. You accuse people of indulging in conspiracy theories by using fake news sources.
🥱 I’m bored
No you are blinkered and stubborn.
Unfortunately we can’t all be as clever as you think you are.
……and unpleasant.
*HE* Hath Spoken
We MUST Obey
Steve H. “ F’ hell…” No coherent reply just more ad hominem. A word in your shell like think about a change in career your job as an establishment propagandist is not proceeding very well. Time to get a career change before you get the 🥾
🥱
Steve H. “ Not at all..” As the sweaty socks would say, if at first you don’t succeed pull your foresxxn over your heed. Looks like you beat them to it.
Steve H, you are 🤡
I’m pleased that I’ve brightened up your day.
….and you have to have the last word.
Steve H. You always make me laugh with your amateurish attempts at pushing the establishments propagandistic narrative.
Unfortunately I can’t say the same. I regard you as a rather
uselessdangerous idiotBubba and Hayseed demand ‘evidence’ of me while disparaging the 99.999% majority evidence as being tainted by ‘big money’ – yet they offer the evidence of CEBM, a site funded by UberTory David Willetts, as if it’s unimpeachable.
They offer evidence from GlobalResearch and its Swiss subsidiary (I invented that connection but it might be true) on the same basis – “All of our 0.001% of the available evidence is good, all of your 99.999% of evidence is rubbish.”
Much in the mainstream truly IS establishment-perpetuating propaganda, but knowing of the overall ‘conspiracy’ doesn’t make conspiracy websites any more reliable or believable.
Better to take nothing at face value and, for those who possess one, filter everything through one’s own personal logic discriminator – those of you who don’t possess one have my sympathies.
And you complain when I laugh at your obsessive attachment to brand new websites set up specifically for the purpose of deceiving the unwary 🤣
No evidence, no data, no documentation, no proof no brain. Plenty of bullshit. Stick with your wee tales of the riverbank book.
David Willets is I think still a member of the Trilateral Commission.
Steve H. 9.26am If you ask the Knight of the Realm, who is the only Parliamentary MP to be a member of the Trilateral Commission, he will know.
Figures published by the UK’s statistics agencies show there have been 56,800 deaths registered in the UK where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate.
Meaningless. Death certificates have been issued stating death with Covid-19 on the strength of 3rd party claims of the deceased having exhibited one or more coronavirus associated symptoms. No post mortem was carried out and no second opinion sought. During lockdown the authorities went into full blown panic expecting morgues to be overwhelmed.
https://skwawkbox.org/2020/08/16/starmer-finally-decides-to-talk-tough-on-the-last-thing-many-parents-teachers-and-unions-want-in-right-wing-rag-as-new-spike-starts/#comment-155364
When all is said and done the only figures you will be able to place any faith in are the excess deaths figures and then you will have to factor in excess deaths caused by withheld treatment and people not reporting illnesses.
There’s been quite a lot of those to take into account over the last few months. Excess deaths may satisfy you but I’m unsure whether your cohort brianbotou would agree with using this measure, he wants all Covid-19 deaths to be ‘pure’ and uncontaminated by any co morbidity.
You really don’t understand do you? I’m not quoting ‘conspiracy theories from minority websites’. I only cite actual facts accessable on gov.uk under Covid-19 guidance and support. Even if I were citing a ‘conspiracy theory’ site I would not accept claims without linked evidence. The fact is, MSM are guilty by omission, they only tell you what they want you to believe. For instance, did you know that on 19th March 2020 the government stated: “COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK.”……then try went into full lockdown panic stations and the media went Covid ballistic. None of that is a conspiracy by me. One could be forgiven for accusing government and media of conspiracy through their own overreactions, pandemic planning and the wish to implement a global economic reset. However, I don’t subscribe to that.
Steve H, ” …I can’t say ..” That’s right you can’t say anything without citing an establishment sponsored, funded and ex spook staffed ” fact ” checking site which only gullible buffoons and establishment employees would cite from . As I said earlier, you are a 🤡
Is this the comment that you were responding to
SteveH 16/08/2020 at 9:12 pm
Unfortunately I can’t say the same. I regard you as a rather
uselessdangerous idiotSteve H, 9.45 pm. “…I can’t say..” Like it says on the tin, you can’t say anything without citing an establishment sponsored, funded and ex spoof staff “ fact “ checking site which only gullible buffoons and establishment employees would cite from. As I said earlier you are a 🤡. I can’t be any clearer than that!!
brianbotou – Well that’s another inaccurate little rant.
Steve H. 9.45 pm . truth hurts eh !!!
brianbotou – Not on this occasion, but hey, thanks for your concern. 😘
Steve H. 9.57pm “ …he wants all deaths to be ‘ pure ‘ and uncontaminated by any co morbidity. “ As Albert Camus said in his novel The Plague “ The only way to fight the plague is with the Truth.” Evidently, the NHS are of the same view.
Over 95% of “COVID Deaths” recorded in England and Wales had potentially serious comorbidities, according to statistics released by NHS England.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/06/COVID-19-total-announced-deaths-3-June-2020-weekly-tables.xlsx
brainbotou – Who gives a f’. The inescapable fact remains that 10s of thousands in this country are now dead who would still have been alive if they hadn’t been infected with SARS CoV-2.
Steve H 10.51 pm “ Who gives a f’.” “ The inescapable fact..” More ad hominem and spin when faced with undeniable facts as the NHS stated unequivocally 95% recorded “ Covid “ deaths in England and Wales had potentially serious comorbidities, according to statistics released by NHS England. “
In plain simple English they died with Covid 19 not because of it.
In other words the primary cause of death WAS NOT COVID 19. Plus of course the median age of death was 80 years old.
brianbotou – Don’t be silly, you’re playing with words. If someone’s death is hastened by Covid-19 then they were a victim of the virus.
Steve H, “ not on this occasion, but hey, thanks for your concern.” Looks like the truth hurts on other occasions as well eh. The last thing I have for an establishment propagandist is “ your concern “
…..and?
Steve H. 11.33 pm “…and ? “ Your supervisor on a break at the moment 😎
I’m ‘impressed’ by the cool guy in sunglasses look. 😏
Steve H, 11.29 pm . Like the Borgias forget nothing and learn nothing. Recently I said to you “ you can play all the games of semantics you want, the indisputable fact is that the PRIMARY CAUSE OF DEATH WAS NOT COVID 19”.
Moreover, the NHS listed the numbers of fatalities WHO DIED SOLELY FROM COVID 19 WHICH WAS 5%. If all the fatalities had all died solely from Covid 19, the NHS statistics would have stated 100%.
But they didn’t.
Did they.!!!
Back to the propaganda school for you me lad your on a D minus at the moment.
brianbotou -I’ve already been quite clear, I think you’re an idiot so it It should come as no surprise that our opinions differ on this,
Steve H, “ I’ ve already been clear,” As clear as mud by trying to spin yarns. I see another pattern developing here the fall back position being ad hominem when confronted with indisputable facts. It’s not just my opinion it’s The NHS as well. You entitled to your opinion just don’t pretend that it’s based on facts.
brianbotou – “I see another pattern developing here the fall back position being ad hominem when confronted with indisputable facts.”
Do you mean the indisputable fact that there are 10s of 1.000s of families grieving over the loss of a loved one who would still have been alive today if they hadn’t contracted Covid-19 and died earlier than expected.
Steve H, 12.03 am. It’s the de rigeur for supervisors in charge of propagandists.
Is it really?
Steve H, 12.16 am latest mode of dress from the establishment school of yarns😀
Oh really, wow, that’s very ‘interesting’.
Steve H. 12.23 “ Oh really, wow that’s very interesting “. Which part the mode of dress or the establishment school of yarns which you are working for.
Oh, I’m sorry. As I’ve no idea what you are blathering on about I naturally presumed you were referring to yourself. I thought you were just showing off how cool you thought you looked.
Don’t worry I’ve seen the humour,,,now.
Steve H, ” …I presumed…” .Yes. that is the exact phrase that the vast majority of your pumped out propaganda is based on PRESUMTIONS . ” Don’t worry I’ve seen the humor..” Unfortunately, you haven’t because you can’t even see that your arguments have more holes than Swiss cheese. The joke all on you dear boy. Ask your supervisor for a new job, as a propagandist you are on the level of Lord Sooty
Steve H. 1.15 am . ” …the loss of grieving families..” . Another propagandistic technique from the school of propaganda. Mix up some truth with fiction and add emotion. The fatalities as recorded by the NHS stated that 95% of the fatalities DID NOT DIE FROM COVID 19 AS THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF DEATH AND THE MEDIAN AGE OF DEATH WAS 80. Are you now saying that old people only die of Covid-19?
Correction:…is based on PRESUMPTIONS.
KS statement that “….. no equivocation” makes many assumptions and will be judged for being an absolute.
I hope he has sought the scientific community for its opinion. History will determine whether this particular cause was the best to stake his credibility on, I fear he may have to eat his words… forensically.
Were the deaths premature or were those people (who were over 80 and had co-morbities) deaths imminent and predicted by their physicians?
Percentage of deaths with Covid-19 by pre-existing condition. (95% have one or more P.E.C.) NHS England data.
Note that the most common pre-existing conditions are diabetes, followed by dementia, chronic pulmonary disease, and chronic kidney disease.
https://hectordrummond.com/hec_wpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-08-11-ONS-Total-deaths-with-COVID-19-by-detailed-age-range.jpg
The life expectancy in the U.K. is about 80.
The overwhelming majority of the fatalities occurred between the ages of 80- 90 about 31, 500
Fatalities from 70-79 was about 10,500
As of 31.07.2020
Total number of deaths from Covid 19 is about 41,000 as of the 17.08.2020 which had been revised down by about 5000 from previous of about 47,000
Graph showing the percentages of different diseases which were listed amongst the 95% of fatalities who died with Covid 19 and not solely by Covid19
https://hectordrummond.com/hec_wpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020-08-11-NHS-England-deaths-with-C19-by-specific-pre-existing-conditions.jpg
Bit late in the day, but I noticed that Susan Press, who used to be big in the LRC etc, has this to say on KS writing for the Daily Mail. I’ll quote her, as I know if I just said it I’d be dismissed as a mindless “centrist”.
“The political illiteracy of anyone actually believing #StarmerOut because he wrote a piece for the DM is astonishing . Preaching to the converted rewarded us with an 80-seat majority .”
Although I wouldn’t attribute all the loses to Labour talking to itself it certainly didn’t help. However I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of the quote.
Well that was a wasted thread, wasn’t it?
Hard not to suspect certain people are being paid by the word.
Well, that aged well …
Labour London boroughs try to shut schools in face of escalating infections, Gavin Williamson issues orders for them to reopen (amusingly, in letter dated 2010).