Disastrous night for Labour may exceed even worst expectations. Starmer must go
With Hartlepool already conceded hours before the count concludes and a slew of council seats lost across England, a disastrous night for ‘Keith’ Starmer’s Labour continues to accelerate with the news that Labour is in danger of losing control of Durham – home of the Durham Miners’ Gala, the biggest working-class event in the country.
And that councillors in Redditch fear that they have lost every seat they were contesting tonight, with Lodge Park – one of its safest seats in the area – already confirmed lost to the Tories.
The results were always going to be bad for the shadow that Labour has become after a year of non-opposition and outright collusion by Starmer – but the outcome, against a party of social murderers, looks set to be so bad that Starmer’s position looks in genuine danger despite the stubborn refusal of his bland supporters so far to accept just how appalling he is as ‘leader’.
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To be replaced by who?
My dog
Doug I have a lot of faith in your dog ,and I am sure that even the worst dog 🐕 would have more sense than to piss all over its own kennel..Maybe the knight could learn a bit from your dog..Give him a couple of biscuits and brush his coat regularly to avoid parasites…!
Joseph
My dog does punishment shits when you give him wrong, he’s a horrible little bastard when he wants to be, but to look at him, butter wouldn’t melt
Perfect foil for our spiritual leader JC
So much for ‘lets wait and see’ eh, genius?
The nation is sick to bastard death of the incompetent, impotent, worse-than-useless slime bucket; and we all know you’d vote for the furthest right candidate anyway, so just dry up for fuck’s sake.
We waited…. And you were proved wrong a-fucking-gain.
Your words don’t mean shite. Even that dan hodges shows more perspicacity and foresight than you, and he’s widely regarded as an idiot. You can’t even reach that standard.
Toffee – Well thanks for the entertaining little tantrum, can you suggest a credible candidate to replace Starmer.
Hardly a tantrum, just an accurate evaluation of your utter fucking imbecility.
That the planet has to suffer such utter cretins like yourself. Maybe the eugenicists DO have a point…
Toffee – Is there anything else that you’d like add.
Toffee, you’re missing the vital point. The party’s real opponents were anti Semites. So he’s done his job, or something. Anyway, onwards to real socialism. Regards ☮️
We can now say “Labour would be twenty points ahead with ANY OTHER LEADER but Starmer”. Specifically…Burnham, whose going to be virtually the only Labour figure anywhere in the UK who will win solidly tonight, looks more and more like someone who could be a genuine party unity candidate, as opposed to Starmer, who promised unity but brought nothing but vengeance against Corbyn’s supporters.
Good lad Andy Burnham,actually has a heart ❤,but on becoming a MP he got in with a “bad lot” called the PLP and this is not good for any good mp .Luckily he escaped and I hope he doesn’t mix with such low life parasites again…
Unfortunately, I don’t see Andy Burnham trading Mayor of Manchester for that of leader of the Labour Party. He knows the PLP to well and knows by now the right wingers will conspire against him too.
It is reported that in 2016 during the chicken coup Andy Burham was in tears at the PLP’s betrayal of Corbyn.
Burham deserves to win in Manchester for providing an effective oppositions to the Tories.
Many congrats Andy!!
It’s not a question of being ‘replaced by who’.
Before the Labour Party can move on, Blair, Mandelson, McNicol, Watson et al. need to be expelled from the Party immediately. It is their combined, malign influence that has brought us to this point.
They can take Akehurst, Evans, Kaplan and Smeeth with them.
I, for one, have had, more than, enough of their lies and subterfuge.
I’m not advocating a return of Jeremy Corbyn, as Leader. Not, even, as caretaker Leader, but he should, certainly, have The Whip restored to him, immediately, and his political philosophy listened to and treated with the respect it deserves. Labour’s Elder Statesman, if you like. He’s one of the very few people in the current Party, who has a clue how politics works.
Then we could start reinstating those expelled on spurious grounds, by Starmer and Co. Oh, what am I talking about? It’s obvious, now, he hadn’t a clue what was going on, at South Side. He was, simply, their stooge. Their fall-guy.
A long, slow process, but worth it.
You know and I know who will likely be a new leader if KS steps down. Given the candidate pool in the PLP and the inability of the left to get the percentage needed on to any ballot paper, it will be cheerio Kier, and say hi to Yvette. Be careful what you wish for from your perspective.
George Peel, I couldn’t have put it better myself.
Nick, good post. I think that your final paragraph told the truth. Do you think that any of your wishes will ever be granted. You are a good bloke. A veritable 🦁 lion in a den of Daniels. ☮️
WhoM, dumbass! Again.
Steve H, the only possible candidate able to revive Labour’s fortunes would be Clive Lewis. However, the members of the SCG preferred to back RLB rather than Clive.
Beside, I don’t see Starmer’s resigning his position as leader, if anything to ensure that the SCG cannot file a candidate.. Hence, I don’t see any alternative candidate able to truly revive Labour’s fortunes.
Don’t get me wrong I like Ian Lavery and John Trickett as leaders, but I am not naive enough to believe that the MSM would leave them alone.
In the same way that the MSM is giving an easy right to Starmer they would attack non stop any Labour leader that comes from the ranks of the SCG. I believe only Clive Lewis would be able to deal efficiently with an hostile MSM and PLP and turn the tables, Clive Lewis has a back bone.
Maria, you seriously want arch Remainer, mainstay of the People’s Vote Campasign, avid proponent of doing electoral deals with the entirely pro capitalist SNP and Greens, and quite significant key mobiliser of the entire Remain/2nd Referendum plot that forced Jeremy to accede to a Brexit policy in 2019 that led directly to Labour’s huge defeat, ie, the opportunist Clive Lewis, as new Leader ?? Remarkable choice, Maria ! Because of his Remainer past record Clive Lewis would go down like a bucket of cold sick in our lost Heartland , Leave-supporting, constituencies .
Unfortunately that Remainer fanatic poster, David Walsh is correct on this – if Starmer falls the composition of the PLP will ensure someone even further to the Party’s Right , like Yvette Cooper, will become Leader – not any sort of Leftie. Hoping to reverse the Labour Party’s decline into PASOK or French socialist Party type decline is a fools errand now. The Left muffed it during the Corbyn Leadership, though a combination of the Leadership’s utter cowardice in not taking on the Right’s constant sabotage – combined with the electorally suicidal uncritically pro EU Left Liberal politics of most of the Labour Left – which split Jeremy and Labour from the bulk of our old Labour support base in those vital Heartland areas in 2019. The crap pro EU politics of the Labour , middle class , Left Liberal, ‘Left’ , ruined our once in a lifetime chance to save Labour to be a vehicle for Left advance, That flukey opportunity will never come again – and no Left candidate will ever get to stand again. It’s OVER for Labour, folks . Only a new Left Party can have any chance of buyilding mass resistance to the neoliberal privatising, austerity on steroids, typhoon to come.
Jpenny, the whole purpose of a political party is to win elections. Corbyn could have formed government after the GE on 2017 if it wasn’t for the sabotage of the right wing of the Party. He could have form government in 2019 if it wasn’t for the “constructive ambiguity” over Brexit and the allegations of antisemitism against him.
Clive Lewis supported remain and he stood down from the Cabinet to do so. As someone that supported remain but never the People’s Vote, I wasn’t afraid of a Labour negotiated Brexit under Corbyn but rather the horrors that a Brexit negotiated under the Tories would visit upon us. I believe Clive Lewis so membership of the EU as a form of insurance against Tory excesses.
Nevertheless, Clive has voted against CHIP, against the negotiated Tory brexit and I have seeing Clive joining picket’s lines defending workers rights. Yes he maybe willing to make deals with the SNP and the Greens but without PR we aren’t going to get to power any time soon.
As for the SNP if I was living in Scotland instead of England I would be voting for the SNP: free university tuition fees, a better system of education. I don’t know what you think but right now the pro capitalist SNP is on the left of Starmer’s Labour. Hence, steps in the right direction.
Who would you rather have as a leader of the Party: Clive Lewis or Yvette Cooper. I rather have Clive Lewis. I believe that Politics is the art of the possible but I guess that you believe that Politics is the art of making the impossible, possible. So far it doesn’t appear to be working for you doesn’t it?
Maria – you share that very common misconception about the neoliberal EU , with so many Labour Left Wingers – ie, that the EU ‘protects us from the worst that a Right Wing government might do ” . Compete baloney, Maria ! Where was the EU when the French working class were literally fighting on the streets against Macron’s wide ranging assaults ? Nowhere. Where was the EU when the Tories were watering down every legal safeguard against the ever-greater use of Zero hour precariat employment, and privatising the NHS by stealth ? In fact the EU is fully in favour of such ‘loosened , flexible, labour laws ” . It was the EU rules that imposed Europe-wide Austerity on all states – and crucified the Greek economy to safeguard the German banks and their loans to Greece.
Your typical middle class Lefty wish to see the neoliberal enforcement machine of the EU as a benevolent entity is simply sad, Maria. A result of the decline of Left Wing politics over the last 30 years – and the complete separation of middle class, privileged, Lefties from the reality of the the huge suffering the EU’s ‘Four Freedoms’ have imposed on the poorer working class in places like Hartlepool. . A Tory Government will of course pursue the exact same route as the EU towards ever greater neoliberalism – but then without the sabotage of the Corbyn Leadership opportunity, NOT just by the Labour Right, but with the active collaboration of those Remainer fanatics like Clive Lewis, in getting Labour to adopt Remain in 2019, we just could at least have had a big enough Labour PLP in Parliament to block the worst of the Tory assaults today.
Jpenny, would the Tories have been able to pass the Criminal Human Intelligent Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill? or The Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veteran Bill? What about the proposed Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill? If the UK was still a member of the EU?
The answer is not, as it would have contravened EU legislation.
But ,Jpenny rejoice you have your Westminster Parliamentary supremacy, that the Tories are using their parliamentary majority to pass what I consider akin to fascist legislation that is going to be used against Trade Unions and Community campaigns doesn’t matter to you, since you still criticism the EU.
The EU isn’t perfect, it needs a help of a lot of reforming, but rather the EU that the fascist legislation that is creeping in via the Tories on the back of a Brexit vote.
What people like you that voted for Brexit with a Tory government in power, were expecting? Lexi? Well you aren’t having Lexi have you?
Well as the cult of new Labour 2.0 is still in charge anyone but Jeremy Corbin wasen’t it? As it’s all his fault according to this cult. Nothing to do with no policies, We agree with the Torys or we abstain every day. Oh a leader with no personality.
But he will cling on and take Labour down with them this cult. Maybe from the flames and wreckage a proper Socialist only party will emerge. These centerests can go join the limdims or Torys where they really belong. You can’t be Arthur and Martha in politics and the people voting show this…
Doug – So you can’t come up with a credible alternative either?
SteveH
You have missed the point again, anyone is better than this ersatz War Mongrel
My prediction is he will be challenged from both sides and won’t stand
First from the left and then the Cockwombles will panic and put up a candidate
SteveH
You have missed the point again
It’s what the wee fella does, Dougal. By design, not accidentally or through any perceived lack of awareness. You really ought to know this by now.
Perhaps Mr Potato Head will rejoin and lead us to 🌈 utopia?
C’mon, Steve- after what just happened, there is no way you can STILL seriously argue that Starmer should stay on.
Here are the Hartlepool results in full, from PA Media.
Jill Mortimer (C) 15,529 (51.88%, +22.96%)
Paul Williams (Lab) 8,589 (28.69%, -8.99%)
Sam Lee (Ind) 2,904 (9.70%)
Claire Martin (Heritage) 468 (1.56%)
John Prescott (Reform) 368 (1.23%)
Rachel Featherstone (Green) 358 (1.20%)
Andrew Hagon (LD) 349 (1.17%, -2.97%)
Thelma Walker (Ind) 250 (0.84%)
Chris Killick (ND) 248 (0.83%)
Hilton Dawson (NE Party) 163 (0.54%)
W Ralph Ward-Jackson (Ind) 157 (0.52%)
Gemma Evans (Women) 140 (0.47%)
Adam Gaines (Ind) 126 (0.42%)
The Incredible Flying Brick (Loony) 108 (0.36%)
David Bettney (Soc Dem) 104 (0.35%)
Steve Jack (FA) 72 (0.24%)
C maj 6,940 (23.19%)
15.97% swing Lab to C
Electorate 70,768; Turnout 29,933 (42.30%, -15.62%)
And here are the 2019 general election results.
2019: Lab maj 3,595 (8.76%) – Turnout 41,037 (57.92%)
Hill (Lab) 15,464 (37.68%)
Houghton (C) 11,869 (28.92%)
Tice(Brexit) 10,603 (25.84%)
Hagon (LD) 1,696 (4.13%)
Bousfield (Ind) 911 (2.22%)
Cranney (Soc Lab) 494 (1.20%)
Thanks John👍
Sorry, GEORGE!
I know, I know…’do ye ken John Peel…’ 🙂
Interesting to note the turnout, quite a bit higher than I expected which leads me to believe the result would be replicated across the country.
Likely @lundiel.
Lundiel, lets wait and see, you can be right. It would be interesting to analyse the vote in London and Liverpool. Labour is expected to win both but the questions is: by how much?
Or Paul…or Ringo 🙃
I’ve, just, had another look at those results. My goodness, Sam Lee did well. Didn’t she?
A young local woman. I don’t know that much about her. I’m wondering what sort of support she had.
I do know, one of her supporters went all the way to London, to have some posters made up, for her, over the last Bank Holiday weekend. She’d no sooner put them up, in various places around and about Hartlepool, on the Monday, before Council workers were dispatched to take them down, as ‘someone’ had made a complaint.
Think about that. A Bank Holiday weekend. A Bank Holiday Monday.
Who can get hold of the council officer, over a Bank Holiday? Who can order council workers out, on a Bank Holiday Monday, to take down political posters?
Hmm!?
And I’m sure we will all look at the entrails later, but what of the NIP Whippets at Hartlepool ? 8th place after a near fascist. 250 votes – 2 ahead of a former convicted sex criminal. And that after enough over hyped web traffic activity from the soi-disant anti-Labour left to keep a whole internet server station busy for weeks. Far, far bigger things than that of course, but it did give a little bit of vicarious satisfaction to a dreadful result overall
The one thing you can say about Thelma-she did beat the Monster Raving Looney candidate and the SDP.
Thank you for the analysis George. It appears that Labour lost Hartlepool because former Labour voters couldn’t bother to turn up to vote.
I for once don’t blame them.
Sorry, George I got it wrong the turnout for the bi-election was actually higher than at the last GE. Even worse news for Starmer.
No, you were right the first time, Maria.
42.30% yesterday.
57.92% in GE19.
Surprising that Thelma Walker did so badly. Also, who is Sam Lee and what explanations have been offered for his particular appeal?
The internal report demands the next election is based purely on forcing out Centrists, no room in a Socialist Labour Party for people who prefer a Tory government
Make it clear JC will be brought back as spiritual leader / chair and call out the AS Scam
Expel anyone who weaponises antisemitism, racism, mysogyny.
To abuse Antisemitism like that, is Antisemitism of the most horrific kind, and by it’s own description and yes they should be expelled and ALL the Zionist Organisations disaffiliated I would go so far as to say the BoD, JLM, CAA, LFI, Tory Zionist EHRC etc to be taken to the High Court for their libel, biased and irresponsible part in that!
It is sickening! No wonder the poor dear Holocaust Survivors in Israel and across the world are treated so despicably, even they were targetted as “Antisemites” and they are not receiving the moneys paid to them for therapy and care from Germany, etc! All that money goes to the “Holocaust Industry” instead!
Don’t need any more proof than this alone!
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=GB&q=%22Jeremy%20Corbyn%22%20%2B%20%22Antisemitism%22
Gross Misconduct = Sacked on the spot
Force them to live by the same standards as the rest of us
HEAR! HEAR!
ONLY ONE WAY!
The Hard Way!
Vote them OUT at GE2024 Every last one of the Tory Parasite Filth, Vote them OUT!
If it is Thatcher’s Neoliberal Neolabour Party Tory MP/Candidate VOTE IT OUT!
If they’re a Democratic Socialist UK Labour Party MP/Candidate VOTE THEM IN!
A small but Parasite free Party with a Massive Membership, CLP Councillors/Candidates for every seat and Parasite Free Unions, will be far more effective For The PEOPLE than a 95% Neolabour Tory Occupied, Corrupt, Conniving Party for Themselves and The Establishment NOT The PEOPLE!
From the BEEB – Labour’s shadow local government secretary Steve Reed says the result is “absolutely shattering” to Hartlepool, where he thinks the Brexit Party vote from 2019 election “collapsed towards the Conservatives”.
He says Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer “never made any bones about the fact we had an electoral mountain to climb” after the party’s poor result at that general election.
“It was always going to take more than a year to make this change,” he tells BBC News.
But he adds: “People understand we have a new leader, people do not understand that the party has changed, because it frankly hasn’t changed enough”.
“We need to drive change harder and faster if we’re going to win back the trust that has been broken over many, many years between too many British people and the Labour Party”.
So more has to be done because the party hasn’t changed enough, we need more Stamerism, more suspensions, more expulsions, more support for the Tory government, cuts, opressive policing bills etc…… ‘We need to show we are responsible’……………’Yeah, that’ll make us electable’……
This is what we can expect, for the next few days, Carlene.
‘It’s not my fault. The Democratic Socialists, did it!’
I’ve been over on The Guardian threads, this morning. It’s obvious those people have not a clue what day of the week it is, as regards Labour politics.
It’s not only the Labour Party, that’s fallen.
Whatever happened to the “We learn from our mistakes” .?Seems to be a case of when digging a hole keep digging?Can we have a prize for the most ludicrous excuse from the knight and his misfits from the conservative second team.?
George, the Guardian has been like that since before the to referendum which made them show their true colours. People I had thought were on the same page as me showed themselves to actually be neoliberals when the chips were down, they were just embarrassed to show their true colours after the fall of Blair and now they are like a bunch of compulsive liars clinging to opposing beliefs.
lundiel – I couldn’t agree more. I was a regular, on there, for many years and only stepped back when one idiot called me a ‘Nazi Brownshirt’ and accused me of trying to silence him.
I go back – on a very odd occasion, like today – to annoy them. Good fun, but it quickly becomes boring. I don’t think their opinions have changed since they left school.
Perhaps The Democratic Socialists Forensically Abstained under “orders” from Jeremy Corbyn and those mean and wicked Corbynites at Democratic Socialist HQ!?
One way or another we and Jeremy will get the blame and GREAT if we do! it shows we are still The Many and it show we make Thatcher’s Neolabour Party Tories Shit themselves!
We may have lost GE 2019, but people were under the spell of the internal workings of the 80% Neolabour Party Tories and their internal leaks to The MSM, Brexit and The 24/7 Relentless International Onslaught against Jeremy Corbyn.
Many People have woken up since!
I HOPE that the Many will agree the only way for us to get HOPE back and a Democratic Socialist UK Labour Party, without the internal Sabotage is for us The Electorate to vote them out!
We will end up with a Small Party, but a return of The Voice of THE PEOPLE! We will have the Largest Membership, CLP with Councillors/Candidates for EVERY available seat and 5 years to Campaign and work our butts off for the Communities, The Unions’*, Disinfected of Tory Parasites, Support.
We will stand a DAMN GOOD change of taking Majority after 5 more years of Tory Madness!
No good People keep voting “Labour” for the namesake when we end up with just another of Thatcher’s Neoliberal Tory Parties.
I’m not saying this lightly as I am all too aware of the Tory Suffering brought on us, but keep voting Neolabour Party Tory with a now 95% PLP will not change any of that it will Prolong it.
How can we do this?
ONLY ONE WAY!
The Hard Way!
Vote them OUT at GE2024 Every last one of the Parasite Filth, Vote them OUT!
If it is Thatcher’s Neoliberal Neolabour Party Tory MP/Candidate VOTE IT OUT!
If they’re a Democratic Socialist UK Labour Party MP/Candidate VOTE THEM IN!
A small but Parasite free Party with a Massive Membership, CLP Councillors/Candidates for every seat and Parasite Free Unions, will be far more effective For The PEOPLE than a 95% Neolabour Party Tory Occupied, Corrupt, Conniving Party for Themselves and The Establishment NOT The PEOPLE!
Reed also replied to Nick Robinsons question of why put up a Remain candidate in one of the biggest Brexit voting constituencies in the country. ‘You can’t blame one man,’ Reed also said the party needs to stop looking to the past. Which he was probably insinuating Corbyn’s policies etc were from the past.
The likes of Reed have been blaming one man since 2015 and bringing back Mandelson as an advisor to Starmer. Is that not looking to the past?
@Carlene
They are doing what every western government does nowadays. Doubling down. Expect an even bigger shift away from the left/Corbyn era.
@George
Had a gander myself, to see if any had grasped why. Delusional is an understatement. Some of the comments are priceless. The top comment called voters morons. That’ll win hearts and minds…
Carlene, ” Mountain to climb”? What Starmer has done is equivalent to digging down at the foot of the mountain so that the mountain is even taller. Hence, making impossible to climb it.
Let’s wait and see what solution the PLP is coming with. Because these results are going to worry many Labour MPs with not intention to retire yet. I wouldn’t be surprise if another coup is already brewing among the PLP.
The problem is I don’t see any of the PLP favourites (Yvette Cooper, Stella Creasy come to mind) able to revive Labour’s fortunes in the former Red Wall.
Changing Starmer isn’t going to solve the problem that the PLP made irreparable damage to itself in the process of destroying Jeremy Corbyn.
Yes, they’re quick out of the blocks – Lord Mandelson said: “Actually, the reasons for the defeat… if I really had to boil them down to two things I would say they were two Cs – Covid and Corbyn.
He knows, he says, because he was knocking on doors during the campaign.
That’s probably what did it for Labour, the arrogance, they thought he would be a vote winner so sent him knocking on doors!
MSM will dutifully repeat his lies programming some to believe it’s true and turning yet more away from politics altogether…..they can’t go on like this forever.
Carlene, the lack of insight in display!! Mandelson can blame Corbyn and Covid all he likes, but it doesn’t hold water
However, every single Party has to operate under Covid,so why other Parties are managing to make gains, including the Tories?
As for blaming Corbyn, he can blame Corbyn all he likes the fact remain: Labour under Starmer lost Hartlepool. While under Corbyn’s leadership the results in Hartlepool GE in 2017 were better than at the GE in 2015,2010,2005 and the bi-election in 2004 due to Mandelson’s standing down from the seat.
Perhaps, Mandelson should be reminded of the figures.
Carlene Evans
I wasn’t aware they had despatched Mandelson to canvass in Hartlepool. He says Brexit wasn’t mentioned on the doorstep. What I’m guessing is, more often than not Mandelson opted to bring up COVID and Corbyn instead.
Let’s face it he avoided any discussion on the topic of Brexit because it would be impossible for him to defend the enforcement of a pro Remainer candidate on one of the most Brexit constituencies in the country.
Kieth will now swing fully to the right, in line with those that hold him trapped. This will be the final nail in Labours rotting coffin.
Watch for the forthcoming reshuffle for Cooper et al to be throned
Starmer needs to go the useless TWAT’ now the blame is back on Jeremy Corbyn for the losses these horrible basterds dont realise that the R/W of the labour party who are the deceitful scheming dirty stinking lying parasites who are the problem
Sad to see that a number of you are getting involved in “debate” with SteveH.
Surely, if you want to respond, your response should always be
“Well thanks for your interest in my opinion but I am not going to indulge you by justifying myself to you.”
The discussion about whether or not the LP needs a new leader and, if so, who should be chosen misses the point, I believe. If a new leader comes from the right of the party s/he will continue with current non-policies and spin. The party will not be able to present a radical vision to the electorate (and that is clearly what is needed in the aftermath of Covid) and will remain in opposition (if you could call it that) for the foreseeable future. If a new leader comes from the left then s/he will experience the persistent undermining from within that Corbyn experienced. The only way that the LP could be saved is from the bottom up, through “grassroots” organisation, developing local campaigns and mobilising people in the way that groups in the US Democrat Party have been doing over the past decade. This approach takes a long time, but it certainly looks like the LP will have a long time. If I was half a century younger and much healthier I would be in the LP and doing just that but, unfortunately, I have been fated to become an interested observer – and that looks like becoming the fate of the LP.
For a poster who accused me of being too gloomy just a few Skwwkbox articles ago – you seem mighty pessimistic, goldbach ! And rightly so. Your gloomy conclusion today seems rather similar to my post that you simply dismissed a day or so ago. Labour is truly finished as a potential party of government – or even a party useful as a vehicle for organising Left resistance to the ever-accelerating neoliberal capitalist offensive.
Anyone wanting a snapshot reason to doubt the PLP ‘Left’ will ever take on Starmer and the Right need look no further than this supine drivel from John McDonnell on Sky News online today – and I quote :
“Labour went into Hartlepool poll ‘almost policy-less’ but Starmer has ‘got to be given his chance’ – McDonnell
“On Brexit you have to say ‘Look, people made their judgement on that’, it was different from what we wanted in terms of the Labour Party, and accept that, and accept they made their judgement and now let’s move on and let’s get down to what the future should hold,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.
“Part of the problem in this election campaign was it was almost – well, in any election you need to have an argument, you have to put up an argument and I think the Labour Party went into this election campaign almost policy-less.
“It was like having an argument without putting an argument or a campaign without putting a campaign based upon what you wanted to do or what sort of society you wanted to build or the policies you want to advocate, and they should never ever do that again.”
Asked whether the party needs a new leader, Mr McDonnell said Sir Keir Starmer has “got to be given his chance”.
“I’m not going to be one of those people treating (him) the way they treated Jeremy (Corbyn) – always challenging him, coups and all the rest.”
So faced with utter defeat of the entire strategic Tory-lite basis of Starmerism – John McDonnell is only interested in proving what a loyal ‘team player’ he is !! FFS it is too pathetic for words !
As I said in my final comment to SH, the objective of debate is to persuade or be persuaded. Please don’t criticise me for modifying my views somewhat as situations develop. I still think that the LP could be saved, but it would take a heck of a lot of work by people much younger that I am. Maybe a “new left” party could emerge, but that would also need to be a bottom up creation that would take a lot of work and some considerable time. For a few MPs funded by Trades Unions to start a new party, top down, would be a non-starter
Oh, and can you point me to your post that I dismissed? If I shot off a comment that needs reconsideration I will be happy to reconsider it.
Jpenny, I am not fan of John MacDonell, but perhaps he is onto something. He could be allowing the right wingers within the Party to destroy themselves.
Why fight Starmer? Why give a chance to the right of the Party to withdraw the Labour whip from other members of the SCG?
Come the next GE in 2023/2024 what we must do is to protect every single seat that has an MP that is a member of the SCG. So that in the process we increase the percentage of socialist MPs within the Labour Party when the neoliberal MPs are the ones losing seats.
That the neoliberals that populate the PLP lose seats at the next GE? Why should it be our concern? Starmer in its own way is doing a good enough spring cleaning of neoliberal Labour Cllrs. I wonder how many Labour Cllrs have lost their seats yesterday.
It would be interesting to know too, how many Labour Cllrs openly members of the SCG lost their seats yesterday.
Skwawbox can you in due course provide us with some numbers?
goldbach – try re-reading my post of 4th May at 4.45pm – on the article about Liverpool clubbers singing “oh, Jeremy Corbyn”. Your latest gloomy, but correct, analysis seems remarkably similar to what I said in that post.
Goldbach, I agree with a lot of what you say above. But in his wisdom Evans as GS of the Party has disbanded the
Campaign Unit .
In London the Campaign Unit was credited among Corbynista’s circles for delivering Putney to Labour, they engaged with Housing Association tenants that were having terrible problems with their social landlord and members of the Labour Campaign Unit engaged with them, it paid back when Fleur Anderson was elected as the new MP. Putney was the only gain the Party made in 2019 GE.
However, since all those employed in the Campaign Unite were Corbynistas the unit was disbanded. We also know that the right wing of the Party doesn’t do very well at engaging with impoverish tenants or other community groups in need of help.
So under Starmer’s leadership or similar ideologically leaning engaging with local campaigns from the bottom up, I am afraid isn’t going to happen.
Maria, I wasn’t suggesting that the “leadership” needed to engage with local campaigns. I was suggesting that grassroots socialists needed to build links with others to engage them in wider political activities than just the particular campaign group to produce a strong left voice in the LP. Seems to me that, if the LP is to survive, it must be a bottom up process that will build, and eventually produce better leadership. If the way forward is to be through a new left party, then the same principle would apply.
Even if there was just ONE Democratic Socialist UK Labour Party MP left standing, s/he will be worth more to THE PEOPLE than the entire 220 Thatcherite Neoliberal Neolabour Party Tory Parasite MPs put together!
THEY destroyed our overnight end to 41 years of Tory Hell in 2017 and 2019 with their lies, smear, conniving, sabotage, undermining, backstabbing, internal international leaks, internal MSM leaks, etc, etc, etc!
Now we only have:
ONE WAY!
The Hard Way!
Vote them OUT at GE2024 Every last one of the Tory Parasite Filth, Vote them OUT!
If it is Thatcher’s Neoliberal Neolabour Party Tory MP/Candidate VOTE IT OUT!
If they’re a Democratic Socialist UK Labour Party MP/Candidate VOTE THEM IN!
A small but Parasite free Party with a Massive Membership, CLP Councillors/Candidates for every seat and Parasite Free Unions, will be far more effective For The PEOPLE than a 95% Neolabour Tory Occupied, Corrupt, Conniving Party for Themselves and The Establishment NOT FOR The PEOPLE!
Maria Vazquez07/05/2021 AT 11:46 AM
Jpenny, I am not fan of John MacDonell, but perhaps he is onto something. He could be allowing the right wingers within the Party to destroy themselves.
Why fight Starmer? Why give a chance to the right of the Party to withdraw the Labour whip from other members of the SCG?
People don’t like seeing politicians back losers. Mcdonnell can’t have it both ways. And to me, it looks like he wants it both ways.
It’s become classic: ‘Us and them’ and mdonnell’s on the ‘them’ bus. He’s got his. more toearag seats won’t affect him until his snouts out of the wesntminster trough. Same goes for just about every one of them.
No, the solution starts (And ought to finish) with a withdrawal of funding. If that fails, a mass exodus and the formation of a standalone socialist party (Or a takeover of / switch to the TUSC).
Toffee, you are making very good points. Fully agree with withdrawing funding. As to another alternative socialist party, I believe that in order to make it possible we need PR. Under FPTP it would be a non starter.
This is why I support Clive Lewis Progressive Alliance, to me most important thing is to end Tory rule and under FPTP we know how difficult it is.
Despite all the votes Labour got at the 2019 GE the Tories managed to get a huge majority that doesn’t reflect the number of votes on the ground.
If we’ve learned anything in the last year, it should be obvious that getting rid of Starmer isn’t the solution. We need to be rid of most MPs and more than half the members in order to make a difference and given that’s not going to happen it’s time to start from scratch pushing for a new voting system and local grassroots movements like NIP.
Labour’s candidate Williams who was backed by Likud’s empty suit Starmer and the Board of Deputies rushed out of the election count by the back door and was whisked off in a red Ford Fiesta.
Harry Law
This is what happens when you overrule local democracy and install an unsuitable candidate that seems to have been advocated to by groups outside and inside the party.
Keir will probably give Williams a peerage in the Christmas Honours
Re: jpenney07/05/2021 AT 12:33 PM
“goldbach – try re-reading my post of 4th May at 4.45pm – on the article about Liverpool clubbers singing “oh, Jeremy Corbyn”. Your latest gloomy, but correct, analysis seems remarkably similar to what I said in that post.”
I’ve looked at the discussion and can only find 2 things that I wrote. Both were in response to things that SteveH had posted. Maybe you have interpreted my “Eeyore” comment as relating to you. It didn’t, it was for him.
Or was it in a different discussion that I was overcritical of you?
Nevertheless I am somewhat less hopeful that the LP can be freed from the grasp of the neoliberals that I was ……….. although it would be very pleasing if it were to happen.
My apologies, goldbach – I did indeed think that your ‘Eeyore’ comment referred to myself, not that 24/7 paid troll, Steve H . because I don’t think the troll, Steve H, is in fact an ‘Eeyore’ (pessimist) figure, as he is always immensely ‘tiggerishly’ upbeat about Starmer, and the prospects of a Right Wing , Blairite Labour Party . Just as he expected the EU Referendum to go the way of Remain – and constantly quoted those pre 2019 Guardian commissioned bogus polls ‘proving’ most Labour voters in the Heartland constituencies were ‘Remainers’.
In fact we agree I think that the Right-led Labour Party is in for VERY, VERY, hard times now – with most likely a Leadership reaction to the latest electoral disaster of going even further to the Tory lite Blairite Right . And that will mean a massive defeat in the 2024 General Election ! Labour as a Party has now reached its long-predicted ‘PASOK Moment’ of disaster and electoral oblivion . a fate only postponed by the four year ‘Corbyn Insurgency’ membership and (2017) electoral, boosts.
Well at least we know what the Hartlepool CLP Secretary meant by instructing a clearout of the constituency offices by our “Janet” .Ps…does anyone know what happened to janet after the embarrassment of the secretary’s comments in Guido fawkes gave “our janet” national coverage on how not to launch a campaign with Dr who?
It’s being spun as the ghost of leader past bringing this about despite the fact that the Labour percentage vote is down 9 points in Hartlepool, from when he was leader. Methinks it is the ghost of leader present or the spectre yet to come that is what is feared.
With everything going on in the world and the Labour party not advocating any polices, all that Starmer can come up with is a few rolls of wallpaper, which Johnson will leave at number 10 for the next prime minister, even Corbyn’s backstabber John McDonnell made something of it, effing pathetic.
Aaron Bastani, on the Novara Media show Tyskysour yesterday, provided an excellent analysis of the state of the LP and in particular the “leadership”. Well worth watching if you have an hour and a bit to spare.