Establishment figures – all of them white – smear MP after she challenges racism report’s positive treatment of slavery and colonialism, while racists pile onto her for speaking out
Labour MP Claudia Webbe has been the target of attacks by media and Tory MPs for challenging the conclusions of the government’s widely-criticised report that claimed people of colour are not disadvantaged in the UK – and that, astonishingly, said there should be a ‘new story’ about Britain’s colonial and slave-trading past that highlights the ‘cultural transformation’ of those enslaved and colonised.
Webbe tweeted a map showing the carve-up of Africa by colonial powers and observed that it is ‘hidden’ from many people in this country:
This triggered a pile-on by Establishment figures and media.
White Tory MP Ben Bradley’s libel against Jeremy Corbyn resulted in one of the most popular UK Conservative tweets of all time and he has been attacked for promoting ‘eugenics’ after saying that unemployed people should be sterilised. And he was ‘owned’ by Martin Luther King’s daughter after a tweet of his own used King’s speech to minimise racism:
But this did not stop Bradley from leaping feet-first into the attack on Claudia Webbe:
A white Mail Online reporter ran with a headline claiming Webbe had been ‘ridiculed online’ for her tweet:
A white Telegraph hack used the same tack, while a white colleague tweeted sneeringly that she had learned the subject in year 11 at school:
The tweets and articles were mirrored by a foul racist pile-on against Webbe – one of several she has suffered in recent weeks – for speaking out, as writer and comic Marc Burrows observed:
But it seems the facts stack up on Webbe’s side. While the subject of the carve-up is touched on in the curriculum, this is only as an optional module and frequently ignored – and only covers a brief period in the history of slavery and colonialism when it is taught, as Sue Caro pointed out in response to one vile comment:
Webbe, for her part, has taken the high road and ignored the racist smears, tweeting instead to point out on aspect of the horrific legacy of colonialism in Africa:
And she pointed out that a petition to make the proper teaching of black history in UK schools compulsory has been signed by almost 300,000 people:
A spokesperson for the Labour Black Socialists group told Skwawkbox:
Here we go again. Ben Bradley, a Tory MP, and others minimising racism after Claudia Webbe had tweeted that the UK’s colonialism is not taught in UK schools. The racist abuse Claudia is receiving is abhorrent and shows exactly why this should be included in the curriculum so we can learn and understand how colonialism still impacts ethnic minorities to this day.
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A depressingly familiar story, as is the failure of the PLP to offer any resistance to the latest Tory big lie. Never mind defend a colleague against attack from scum like Bradley. Many of them, as we know are more likely to join in the abuse.
“BREAKING NEWS
Claudia Webb found guilty of Harassment.
sentencing on 04/11
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/13/mp-claudia-webbe-found-guilty-of-harassment
Is she saying that no one ‘white’ knew that European powers established colonies in Africa? I think she is wrong, even if that is not taught as a compulsory part of today’s curriculum I think everyone of every colour knows about it. Everyone knows that those colonies exploited the natural resources of those places including (even after slavery was abolished) the people who lived there including migratory populations. There may be occasional and unthinking racism in the UK but a lot has been done, and continues to be done to eradicate it amongst white populations, and none white racism against none white groups (caste discrimination amongst groups whose ancestors came from the S. Asian subcontinent for example). Independence was obtained 60+ years ago and modern starvation is not a vestige of colonial racism but the greed and corruption of today’s African leaders despite trade enriching their countries populations. It is not compulsory for African leaders to be a dictator with a Swiss bank account and poverty in your population, it is a choice.
Her point is that in the light of a Conservative Government report which denies the existence of systemic and institutional racism, people need to consider the nature, scale and scope of capitalist imperialism, as well as its ubiquity for over three hundred years.
It’s appaling that anyone feels the need to do what Claudia has attempted, but if she had not, the hard-right would have taken it as a culture war victory.
I, for one, am dlighted that the usual suspects are fighting back so predicably. They might use their might to swing elections, misrepresent health issues as pandemics and fail to respond to a climate emergency which takes us within minutes of the hour chime, but they still need to fight culture wars which are actually unwinnable.
London has already managed to eke out another 25 years of existence, going by a green poster I was given last century. It showed a mock up of London in 1995. It was a desert. I’ll be long gone by 2035 so I wish the rest of the world well after that; wheezing and climbing over dead polar bears. As a black bloke all this p.c will be over and I will fly as a maskless free spirit never being taken for granted as to who I vote for, what music I must like and what and who to see, read or write. It’s over folks, we all succumbed and the Trots, centrist tories and wierdos have won. Now where did I put my mask, it’s got a clenched fist on it. Got it on Amazon. ☮️
And your point is Steve Richards?
Rubbish. The map of Africa was drawn by colonialists and their leaders today are the ones agreeable to corporate pillagers and American foreign policy. We (colonialists) drew the maps taking no notice of tribal norms or traditional migration. We enclosed them in arbitrary borders, forcing some into areas unable to provide proper sustenance and making tribal enmity in the process. We still interfere in Africa today, left wing governments were all removed, mostly by force, and are impossible now. We are happy for corrupt dictators to rule as they are very amiable to bribary from global corporations. Also we have trading blocks like the EU which deny Africa real opportunity to grow through trade.
Agreed the EU trade policy with Africa is a disgrace, left wing governments are all over the place in Africa still spouting their Marxist claptrap while riding round in their big Mercs going from bank to bank. Africa is the richest continent on earth, producing loads of food. There is no legacy of colonialism producing problems today. Billions of £$ and Euros has been gifted but all founders on the corruption of a few selfish leaders kept propped up by billions in aid.
Maps are drawn by cartologists & Imperialists. An interesting use of personal pronouns. ‘we’ are colonialists; we enclosed people; ‘we’ still interfere in Africa today & ‘we’ are happy with corrupt dictators? Our forays into Africa deny opportunities & ‘we’ are responsible?
Again rubbish. Whatever African countries may call their political system the majority are based on ethnic/religious/sectarian groups and the economic reality they face. After the end of the cold war left/right became a meaningless term for most Africans. As Africa was marginalised, national unity became important with so many ethnic groups and no industry they had to go cap in hand to the IMF and world Bank who forced neoliberalism upon them. Of course there is a huge amount of corruption, resentment and inequality. It was inevitable.
And your point is Steve Richards?
The inner racist must be let out to take the air occasionally eh Plain Citizen, plain racist citizen, as has been seen here previously.
John Thatcher: Please point out the factual inaccuracies in my post. Your lazy condescending arrogance is emblematic of the closed minds of a certain element of the left. Ignorant and self righteous, divorced from reality, smug and complacent with your easy slogans and labels, unwilling to look forward, you typify the rot that holds our party back.
Yes, it was 60-ish years ago that Britain became, supposedly, independent of its former colonies. It has remained dependent on the wealth extracted from these former colonies ever since. The symbiotic relationship between many African leaders and multinational companies still expropriates wealth from these countries every year. Offshore financial institutions, centred of the City of London, enable these companies and leaders to launder their ill gotten gains. If you think that it is not compulsory for African leaders to involve themselves in this just look at what happened to Patrice Lumumba in Congo when he tried to extract Congo from the stranglehold.
Lumumba died in 1961, nearly 60 years ago, executed by his own compatriots. A long time ago. African countries sell goods and minerals at world prices and it has taken millions out of poverty, they choose to trade to make customers pay market prices, no colonial free gifts. The African leaders choose to be corrupt no matter who hides their ill gotten gains. A truer target of your ire should be the Chinese who are the new slave and property owners who never forgive debt bondage unlike the west.
…A truer target of your ire should be the Chinese who are the new slave and property owners who never forgive debt bondage unlike the west…
Utter bollocks.
I guess you’ve never heard of the IMF then? And before you throw up the Uighurs, firstly there’s absolutely no satellite evidence shown so far and secondly, the West has been killing Muslims for decades. Yet suddenly, these Chinese Muslims matter…
In fact, in the last twenty years, the Chinese have forgiven 57% of debts they loaned to foreign countries. A sum of approximately $10 billion. Cuba accounts for most of this.
The reason the West has a hard-on for China is because they won’t let the West in to pillage via private finance. They prefer public finance. It allows them to make achievements such as the eradication of extreme poverty. Something they managed to do in 50 years.
You really don’t belong here Plain…
Plain Citizen is ill informed, unfortunately.
1. Lumumba was murdered as a result of a US/Belgian etc. sponsored coup to install Mobutu (not a nice fellow) in order to “protect our interests” – in other words to make sure the resources didn’t fall into the hands of the Congolese. It wasn’t his people who murdered him. It was our people.
2. African countries sell goods etc. because they must service the debts that they have accrued from taking the advice of the IMF and the World Bank, to produce crops etc. to export to Europe and North America.
3. Unlike the West, China generally gives either interest-free loans or direct aid. They build infrastructure that links within, or between, African countries rather than infrastructure that is designed to get stuff to the ports for export to the West.
If his “Chinese slave owners” comment was directed at the situation in Xinjiang, he needs to do some research. The stuff alleging “genocide” all comes from “research” carried out by a fellow called Adrian Zenz. He is German and a far right nutter. The university he works for is about to have its accreditation removed because of its lack of academic rigour. Zenz’s papers have never been peer reviewed. There IS evidence of people in Xinjiang being in prison camps. Some of them are Jihadists, some are independence campaigners, and some are people who just got caught up in a protest. Most spend a short time in “re-education”. Some are imprisoned for longer. There is certainly a degree of authoritarianism, even repression, in the way dissent is dealt with but it is far from “genocide”. Zenz’s allegations of forced sterilisation and restrictions on the number of children Uighurs are allowed to have are both nonsense. His picture from a”forced sterilisation clinic” shows a doctor talking to a couple who must be at least in their sixties – a bit late for sterilisation. The “restrictions” on permitted numbers of children bring Uighurs into line with the rest of the population – previously they were allowed to have more children that the Han.
I suggest PC watches Aaron Bastani’s interview with Martin Jaques and learn a little.
Other than this, what PC wrote was sensible.
Ever wondered about the Tory Stance that ALL Tories do?
https://www.reddit.com/r/UKpoliticalmemes/comments/mm0nzx/tory_stance/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
This Article goes to show how desperately we need a Democratic Socialist Party, who will stand up for The People. How much more Abuse do Black, Asian, Arab, Ethnic Minority MPs/Members have to face before something gets done by The Neoliberal Neolabour Party Tories!?
NEVER, they will never do anything about it nor support those MPs, Members, Citizens!
Neolabour is a White Nationalist Party End Of!
Vote them out! EVERY ONE of them, even if it is with a Conservative Party MP, just as they demonstrated at GE19, just do it, bite the bullet, for the short term to get them out of our Democratic Socialist Party, once and for all! The Party might be small for one term, but the Membership will become Massive again and the next GE will be ours!
Racism is always wrong but to suggest that racism caused Labour to lose the last GE is stretching it a bit. A democratic socialist party is going to have to more than scream ‘racism’ at every perceived setback if it is going to get elected.
I don’t think that I suggested that “racism caused Labour to lose the last GE”.
Stupidity did, I doubt any Democratic Socialist Leader anywhere have ever made Racism their be all end all ‘scream’?
Screaming “racism” certainly works. Unscrupulous people screamed “racism” at the Labour for 5 years up to the 2019 election and it surely played a part in the outcome.
As evident here, guess when the spikes happened!
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=GB&q=%22Jeremy%20Corbyn%22%20%2B%20%22Antisemitism%22
However they can only take a portion of the outcome, the biggest chunk still stands with Stupidity! To throw away a once in a lifetime opportunity to finally end 41 years of Thatcherite Neoliberal Tory Hell, no matter what their reason, can only be down to Stupidity not much else.
Well Either Stupidity or a Deep Rooted Love for Thatcherite Neoliberal Tory Hell!
Plain Citizen “to suggest that racism caused Labour to lose the last GE is stretching it a bit”
No it’s not, Farage and the rest of the right wing made sure that racism was front and center of their tactics to ensure that Corbyn never became PM. It was the central plank of their Brexit strategy. They were clever in the way they framed it by saying if we limit immigration from the EU we can be fair and allow more citizens from the Commonwealth to come here. It allowed those who had fallen for the UKIP lies to salve their consciences.
With lies smears and subterfuge, particularly from within the Labour Party bureaucracy, they turned Corbyn into the scourge of Jews and the friend of illegal immigrants.
PS if you look at all the seats lost in GE19, bar Laura P, Laura S, Dennis, ‘Trophy MPs’, they were all Corbyn Hater, Anti-Democratic Socialist, Anti-UK Labour Party MPs, guess how they canvassed!?
All the Seats lost to the “Independence Party” was won back to The UK Labour Party!
Fair point, I’ll look at it.
The lasting legacy was the arbitrary borders created by the carve up in Africa and the Middle East, still paying the price today
If we consider the History taught in schools and compare it with reality of new findings it simply stayed stuck, that History taught in schools is the Fluffed Up, Candid versions of “reality” written by the Colonialist Elite Class.
That is why most people think Gandhi was such a Lovely Peaceful Man, He was a Nasty Racist and Supremacist! He did not go to South Africa to burn All the People’s Apartheid Passports only the Indians, he hated the Black People, he called them Wild Savages and a Lower Class of Human to Whites and Indians, he helped the British against the Uprising of the Zulus, among many other unsavoury things!
Why do People with Children tolerate this Half Truth being taught to their Children!? ABSOLUTELY ALL of History needs to be disected and rewritten with the Full Facts and Truth and NOTHING left out!
A successful History Lesson should see students run out in tears to puke in the corridor for fear and disgust! Perhaps then Humanity will return and humans will learn not to make the same evil mistakes over and over again!
Look at us now! Back to the 1930s! The 3 Stooges USA, IL, UK are planning unprovoked war on Russia, Iran, China and the already ravaged ME and in the meantime all of NI, London, Bristol, etc are Burning, that is even before anything Profound happens!
All those ridiculous Statues of Dead Colonialists should be turned into beautiful Public Art or at the VERY LEAST contain a Plaque acknowledging their Evil Deeds Done!
As you say, State Propaganda is pivotal. Most people know that history’s written by the victors, what amazes and frightens the right-wing is how it needs to be constantly re-written. A new kind of caring, civilising imperialism with Queen Victoria as its maternal Empress was one version.
Happily, whether the covid pandemic which is actually a WEF/billionaires – Great Reset of a New Normal, the Glorious Revolution which wasn’t a revolution or glorious, but a foreign invssion and coup. Marxist materialism usually manages to “ollow the money” and find the truth.
Hour to killl? Enjoy this BBC4 documentary on a v pertinent historical “fib” b the ruling class.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08d7y3n/british-historys-biggest-fibs-with-lucy-worsley-series-1-3-the-jewel-in-the-crown
I will see if I can find the Documentary somewhere Decentralised, BBC is pretty hot on the tails of MSM Mind-Control Evaders. :):):)
Sadly Marxism has not done itself any favours with the Negative Events of Historical Communism, China is not doing Socialism much favours but then we have to look at the many positive Democratic Socialist Nations, I guess New Zealand would be the shining star, to reach for.
What we have to remember is that Marxism is a Manifesto a Guide and it can be adopted in full, not advised, or Democratised, but one way or another we need to find a new Economy, New Means of Trade, and complete removal of the possibility of extreme wealth/poverty inequality we face today, worldwide.
Not saying that there should not be wealthy people, I am saying there should not be 3% hold more wealth than 97% and there certainly should be no one living below a Decent Minimum Living Wage.
That is going to take Eradication of the current education system and a completely new look at Education, perhaps Student Led like Steiner Schools. I always say that there should be 2 Compulsory Subjects 1. The Human Body (All it’s physiology, feelings, emotions, especially changes through puberty, etc) So that we know exactly why our body does the things that it does inside and out. 2. Thought (Not what to think, but how to think) Most people on the planet has no idea how to think. How to avoid all the hundreds of Thinking Bias Pitfalls, Thinking in itself is a lifetime study and if we could teach children how to form their thought to make better unbiased decisions, the world can only become a better place.
I just feel sorry for the First Generation of those student’s Parents, their kids will run rings around them like little Tornados! :):):)
PS was it you qwertboi who said about Article IV allowing anyone into the Party, a thought, no pun, came to me earlier that Article IV allowed Oswald and Cynthia Mosley and Nancy Astor, Fucking Nazis, into the Party! Can’t get worse than that!
Sadly from the beginning Keir Hardie knew he needed to soften the rules to allow enough people into the movement. However to end up with a Golden Opportunity GE17/GR19 and literally throw it away was sheer Stupidity. With a Democratic Socialist PM we definitely would have swung the tables and the 80% Neolabour Party PLPs would have switched places with the 20% UK Labour Party PLPs just before they were all marched out of the backdoor of The HoP! Jeremy had no power against their 80%, there was so much wrong about 2015 to 2020 it is frightening.
If only Thinking was part of the Curriculum since 1930s, people might have voted with their Brains instead of their Arses!
Sorry but your suggestion to watch Worsley is not one I am taking up qwertboi, she is just a female version of the awful Starkey, otherwise your point is well made.
David Camerons family were slave traders and therefore paid off handsomely, a debt this country took hundreds of years to pay off
Then mention reparations and see what reaction you get
David Cameron is a slave trader by default. The slimy bastard brought about the modern slave market in Libya.
How about a bit closer to home..?
Namely the ‘workfare programme’?
The British government, when it abolished slavery, behaved very thoughtfully and paid significant compensation.
Trouble was that they didn’t pay it to the people who had been enslaved, brutalised and exploited. They paid it to the exploiters. The government is proud of our legacy.
We have only recently completed our latest foray into Africa. That was the removal and murder of Myanmar Gaddafi. An appalling act of war on the Libyan civil society where, from a distance, we slaughtered the police force and army allowing Islamist terrorists to go door to door executing those who had the finger pointed at them. This resulted in the mass migration of poor sub Saharan Africans and the coming about of a new slave trade. We then had the temerity to condone the transport of Gaddafi’s surplus weapons through Turkey (a NATO member) into Syria to be used by our allies Al Qaida and ISIS against the Syrian people.
There is no hope.
Very sexy Claudia bur not very accurate. How about actually talking to someone like me who spent 40 wonderful years building a country where the blacks had a marvellous health system free at point of delivery and whites who paid all the taxes paid for their medical health insurance. I worked for blacks for years – but when I come back you promptly all call me a white racist. Its so unfair. When your government finished wrecking my country we had over 3 million migrants/refugees. I am one of them.
Wherever it was (Zimbabwe?) It was never ‘your country’.
Oh dear. “Blacks”, “Whites” ? Sounds like the 1950s.
Trying to work out what country this is/was.
It is your Rhetoric that makes you a “White Racist”, there has been years of inequality in all the Colonised Lands just as there are in Colonisation today, especially in the ME.
What is “free medicine”, “The Whites” paying all the Taxes, when “The Blacks” have NO Equality, NO Freedom, NO Right to Vote, NO Human Rights and seen and treated as subhuman by “The Whites”.
Sadly to rectify that will require major funding Efforts, from the Colonisers and ensuring that 100% of that Nation is Equally Educated, Equally Housed, Equally Treated, it is the only way.
Or for the Colonisers to recall all the people and offspring of Colonising “Whites” re-establish them in Europe/wherever they originated from. It caused exactly the same problem as the Wealth/Poverty scale where 1 to 3% have all the wealth and the poor are starving. It will be unfair and bloody whichever way you look at it, Revolutions are necessary but never nice!
That is what needs to be educated to children that it brings great amounts of hardship for both the Coloniser’s future offspring and for Colonised. It is an Ugly thing no matter which side of the coin you look at!
Yuk
We were the poster child for Iraq. Have any of you apologised for all the chaos you have caused in Africa rather than looking at history? How about AFRICOM and the latest insurgence in Mozambique. You government is behind it because you have been supporting terrorist groups for decades – since the 50’s. Forgete history which is woke and lets deal with the oncoming devastation your government is causing in Africa.
I think your issues are for The Government not for Claudia, she is trying to get the reality of Colonisation into the Education system, warts and all, surely even you can only see that as a good thing.
Facts and Truth are not woke it’s Facts and Truth.
Completely agree about AFRICOM. https://blackallianceforpeace.com/usoutofafrica
Anytime you would like a differnt view please feel free to contact me.
Our racism, which only started when the slave trade was coming to an end (we started saying blacks had no soul and put a higher value on horses) knows no bounds. The whole of Europe could be fed by Africa if we wanted. We could have lifted them out of poverty and provided cheap food. Libya in particular, with it’s great man-made underground river could have provided all of Europe with cheap citrus, instead we prefer to buy it from Israel.
One day Africa will become a power house with no help from us.
The Dark Side of British History You Weren’t Taught in School
“They invented a new kind of pliers, whose purpose was at first to crush men’s testicles and then to cut them off”
https://www.doubledown.news/watch/2020/13/june/the-dark-side-of-british-history-you-werent-taught-in-school-george-monbiot
Oh and while you are denigrating whites – not a word of disgust about the current black dictators running Africa. If you want to know the opposite of racism – it is not antiracism. It is that racial diffenences are immaterial. We used to discriminate against people with red hair. That is what I mean. Its ridiculous. But then I lived there for 40 years. I have so many stories to tell.
“Denigrating whites”. It was ‘whites’ from the IMF and world Bank who crippled African countries and allowed the black dictators you speak of to gain power helped by NGOs and the CIA.
I have lived through some of the years of change in Southern Afrika,I have seen the corrosive effect of the Apartheid legacy in Pretoria and Salisbury Rhodesia.Be sure of one fact the British Empire stripped Afrika and left the country many years before UDI in Rhodesia and even in SAfrika when they had taken the loot.Many White refugees from these countrys carried the blame for the Empire and gained no sympathy despite many fleeing witn next to nothing.to the Old country..Be sure that those same people who exploited the world are today beginning again against whatever colour race or religion so long as we are the working-class people….Everyone has a story but sometimes it is better to forgive but not forget.I never forgot the situation of the Irish Catholic in Ireland under the Empire state and saw many familiar situations in Afrika which were so very similiar to the plight of the Irish of NIreland.Dehumanizing the Native and exploit the working-class of whatever colour race or religion.is all in a days work for the Conservative and unionist party now supported by the knight and his misfits.
Veronica – the ‘woke crackpots’ and wine bar socialists don’t want facts or to speak to anyone with knowledge from real experience and an enquiring mind. They want to believe their ‘woke’ mythology and accompanying crackpot theories.
Don’t be silly with your labels. I despise liberals. Just looked up Veronica. On twitter she’s a feminist Corbynite. I guess this article scratched her itch.
I doubt very much she is a Corbynite, perhaps a Corbynite with intent. That “Blacks/Whites” rhetoric does not come from anyone who supports Corbyn’s aspirations.
Woke!? The new word to shut down conversation. Let me give you a little woke “Blacks/Whites” reality. My Brother was hijacked and shot dead in Bloemfontein. Now I can like many, many Veronica’s scream “Whites/Blacks”, and what good will come of that!? Nothing, More Hate, More Death! The many Veronica’s who also lost family in Africa will make clear their hate for “The Blacks”, no good can come of it, and they are never going get over the death of their loved ones.
I have Anger/Frustrations but it is aimed towards Apartheid and the many Veronicas who still want to keep Apartheid/Colonialism alive, not the “Black” with a 9mm handgun!
The consequences of segregation and supremacy over one human being by another is what killed my brother not a man with a 9mm handgun, who wanted his car!
Now I see The “I/She/He” Hates the “Blacks” because their loved one was murdered by a “Black” in South Africa/Zimbabwe/Zambia/Mozambique. My question to all those Veronicas is this ‘what if the man with the 9mm handgun was a White Guy!?’ Am I now supposed to hate all White People!? That is just Ludicrous! You choose to hate who/what you hate, it does not choose you!
When you hear all these horrific tales from all these Victimised “Whites” from Africa try and find a Black Person from the same time period and country and ask them how many of their Loved Ones were killed by “Whites” just out for a kick! Ask them how their lives were as Subhuman in the White Africa! I can assure you that the White People in Africa have no Idea of the suffering of The Black People, then and now, Colonialism destroys Humanity!
All you ever hear are the stories of Privileged ‘Whites’ who now live and spread their filth in the White West!
I hope my reality was not too “‘woke’ mythology and crackpot theory” for you, by the way as far as I can see, woke is the Facts and Theories that the White West have been trying to bury for centuries! Unless you have the fact to refute “woke theories” perhaps just say nothing at all!
Well said skellyknelly
Skellynelly..A city with the population of Brighton was Pretoria in the Transval In the late seventys the average killings was Twenty Native Africans in the black townships sorounding Pretoria such as mamelodi,and Atterigeville and up to seven white native Boers or AFrikaners who were usually killed by each other in road rage or at a brievlass were the castle lager and fortified schnapps was cheap and everyone carried a gun.I have seen gunfire exchanged across car bonnets in Kirk straat Sunyside Pretoria between “Whites” and I have seen the corrosive effect of the townships violence under Apparthied.when the pressure became too much from living in absolute poverty and treated like dogs.My job meant travelling into the townships although I was always armed and on the lookout for obvious reasons .Afrika has always been dangerous and always will be…The modern world Pretoria living next door to a third world environment doesnt sit easily especially in mamelodi were life even today is only a little bit better for the working-class native African I have never been back to SAfrika because although a beautiful country it contains some of the ugliest people in the world…or it was and I doubt forty odd years would have made any difference.Carjackings and violence often lead to killing the driver to avoid witnesses and the same for home invassions.This was a country where at least ten people a week were executed by hanging every week in Pretoria prison.All the above mentioned happened before th liberation the S Afrika. and was normal life for a population were time ran out.Not many whites had ever worked with the native African and very few ever would have entered a Township such was the Apartheid legacy.
Yup, I was born and grew up in an Afrikaner Family as an alien invader, I remember making my family embarrassed, outraged and extremely uncomfortable with too many equality questions. Always making a point of using the “Non-Whites” Toilets, Beaches, Shop Kiosks, Deliberately calling Elderly “Non-Whites Uncle/Aunty or Oom/Tannie depending on the “White Language” they spoke to me in. Even though my parents were considered on the moderate end of the political landscape and never vocally racist, it was their silence, to me, that was an even worse crime than my uncles and aunts and their vocal racism.
Anyway that is just a btw’side, you are right, South Africa is literally a World in one Country a Stunning Place. There are a great many very good/nice South African people, but for the most it is a cesspit of the nastiest racism and hatred of each other imaginable. With 11 Official Languages you can only imagine the caldron of hate all those different cultures creates. Top of the food chain is still the self pitying “Whites”.
People think I am harsh on White South Africans when they complain to me of their suffering in Africa they can’t get this/that, only get so much, and as a recent “heartbreaking” documentary on white shanties what all these people forget is that before 10% of White People got 100% of the Welfare Funding/Child Support/Opportunity/Social Housing etc, and now say they are “The Wrong Colour” to get support. That is not at all the case the difference is now instead of 100% providing for just 10%, the 100% needs to support the 100%, 90% less than they have been used to for many years. Of course “White” Shanties will be on rise, now that 100% of the People needs to be employed equally the 10% white people will naturally have a 90% Employment Disadvantage, not because they are white, but because they are now on their way to being equal to the previously neglected 90%, they are now part of the 100%!
Of course I worry about my Family in SA, of course I feel sorry and saddened for the suffering of those people on the ‘white shanties’, desperate ‘white mothers’ needing child support and getting nothing or 90% less than before etc, etc but I feel more or less worried, sorry and saddened than I do for the 90% of neglected South Africans, still underdog to the 10% self pitying whites who reaped the cream for years. They had the choice, they could have ended Apartheid long before it caused so much damage, but just as The Colonisers of Palestine, Vote after Vote they choose/chose not to.
Colonisation kills empathy, destroys everything it touched and caused hatred to everyone affected,
Reading this thread reminds me that the strategy of the ruling class is, and has always been, to divide and rule. The narrative of white v black, of Catholic v Protestant, of men v women, of those who have a little v those who have nothing’ is music to the ears of the super rich. As long as they can exploit resources and people and continue to grow their wealth at a ridiculous rate it doesn’t matter whether they do so by means of a racist society, a dictatorship or a “democratic” government with a choice between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. The colonial regimes were vicious and repressive. “White” rule in certain African countries was vicious and repressive. There are dictatorships in Africa that are vicious and repressive. We should avoid playing the game of “your dictatorship was worse than mine”.
Exactly how did they split the Democratic Socialists 2019!? Brexit, Leave/Remain Bandwagons, Confirmatory Vote which Ironically lands on both Bandwagons. You have to give it to the Blair, Mandelson, Campbell Spin Factory all due credit! Since the People voted overwhelmingly in Conference 2018 & 2019 everyone knew JC will not budge off the will of the People, he stuck to Confirmatory Vote to the very end, but BMC Spin Factory managed to keep 2nd Ref and Remain Band wagon Screaming about it right to the end, they all knew we would have had a damned good Labour Brexit Deal and an opportunity to Reject it, but still BMC SF frothed up the Remain Bandwagon so much that they did that 6mil/12mil whatever INTERNATIONAL petition Freaking Galloway out so much that he jumps in bed with Farage with vote Brexit at any cost, Leave Bandwagon! So really just the Brexit wedge was mainly down to BMC SF! Again the Irony is that if we had a Decent Brexit Deal/Remain, I feel very convinced that The Brexit deal would have won in which case Brexit would have been in Labour’s hands instead of the Inbred’s hands, and the 2nd Refers would have had their “2nd Ref” since Conf 2018 and again Conf 2019. Regardless of what happened it would have happened in safe hands! OUR HANDS!
I wonder how many Brexiteers, [as myself, just never jumped on no bandwagon], now wish there was a way to vote down the Inbred’s Fuck Up of a Mess of a “Deal”!
Goldbach….very accurate but unfortunately the natural home of the Ulster protestant strange though it may seem is the Conservative and unionist party.Most Ulster protestant people do not align with the left and actively hate socialism as much as what they refer to as Shinners or Papests,taigs..
My long association with Ireland, in particular the North, has convinced me that a great number of people living there don’t even think in terms of left/right. They generally don’t even know what socialism means, and view the Labour Party through the lens of the sectarian divide, as being associates with Republicanism. The world is Northern Ireland and all else is only of interest if it has relevance to the North of Ireland. In short, I think that there is even less understanding of UK politics over there, in the North of Ireland that is, than there is of Northern Irish politics over here.
Good points well made
That will definitely happen, they just need the confidence, look at China, we used them to make our stuff cheap, by making our stuff they learnt our Technology, design, etc, etc and opened their own factories, now one would be hard pushed to call USA the Ultimate Power Nation in comparison. We need China more than what China needs us. Iran is doing the same thing the beaten down child is standing up as a man of steel from the dust of the ME and Iran is fast building diplomatic ties with the rest of the ME and Russia.
The 3 Stooges USA, IL & UK are fools for aggressively pushing buttons for war against China, Russia, Iran and the ME targeting Russian and Turkish controlled territories!
Utter madness! We should be making Peace not drop more fucking bombs! What do we have The City. That is it! The City full of chitties that could be taken out like a bath draining, then we will have interesting Architecture, Big Ben and Tower Bridge!
I only learnt that Belgium Imperialists slaughtered 10m Congelese in the 1900s in a New Left Review article and wondered why we were never taught this in school? As a white working class socialist I support 100% Black History being taught in schools. One of my favourite History lessons was actually on the Peterloo Massacre which E.P. Thompson called “Class hatred” and “What the ruling class really feared was that the working class was getting organise.” So whilst supporting the demands of our Black brothers and sisters perhaps there is much in history we are not taught (deliberately?) for example were the agricultural population compensated for the 3,511,750 acres of common land that was stolen from them in the UK between 1801 to 1831? (Marx, Capital, Volume 1, Ch 27). As someone suggested we were perhaps all refugees once from the land. Was a lovely poem in a brilliant piece by Claire Dubucquois (NLR, Jan/Feb 2021) by Adrienne Rich: ‘What kind of times are these? this is not somewhere else but here, our country moving closer to it’s own truth and dread, it’s own way of making people disappear.’ Keep up the good work Claudia! DIVERSE WORKING PEOPLE OF THE WORLD UNITE!
We’re not even talking about South and North American Colonialism, Asia’s Colonialism, and now Modern Colonialism in The ME!
I will say it again we are nothing but Stupid Apes who can communicate and walk upright! How many times does the same travesty have to happen to us before we drop our shit and unite against the few people who make us hate and kill each other!
A reminder –
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/04/barbara-castles-campaign-against-kenyas-colonial-prison-camps
Interesting. Kenya is a favoured African country today. We have several army bases there and permanently stationed force of SAS troops who train and accompany Kenyan forces. I have read (can’t find it now) that brutality is a byword for these gangs in their hunt for Al-shabaab. In return we sell a few Kenyan products in our supermarkets.
Property is theft (Proudhon). Capitalism means that anything not owned is unloved. So the human race will deservedly be wiped out by the unowned and unloved polluted atmosphere and global water.
The working-class of whatever colour take the blame for colonialism and the violence that follows with it.The exploiters had long gone before it kicked off in Rhodesia and later on SAfrika…We need to learn from that,who the real enemy is with their Apparthied education and even a different way of living and speaking.They are the establishment and the aristocracy in the merry go round of the Colonialist exploiters.We have a government now and a enabler Labour party that will destroy us all if we let them.
@skwawkbox Racism and Colonialism are very contentious subjects but debate is urgent and necessary no matter what side of the argument, it is necessary for people to air their views.
You have not opened discussion on your latest “UK one of 12 nations to vote AGAINST UN resolution” I personally think this is a mistake, even if the UN Resolution Contains the much needed Durban Declaration and Programme of Action. And voted was against by 7/12 of the worst offenders of Colonialism both then and now.
In general wherever you look in the world, whether it be Africa, India, Australia, Israel, Ireland or the USA it was right wing whites who decided that the indigenous people in those areas needed ‘civilising’. In reality it was just an excuse to exploit them but in Israel’s case it was to expell them.
With regard to the British right wing class, they had honed their class system here at home where they ‘enslaved’ the working class and subdued them with the threat of work for a paltry wage or starve. The Royal Scroungers are a continuation of the arrogance of the right wing and it never ceases to amaze me how many of the ‘working class’ have fallen for this con.
Here is a lovely piece about Ghana and Prince Phillip from Craig Murray https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/04/my-day-with-prince-philip/#click=https://t.co/dclsVjxr3R
An interesting read which makes a refreshing change from the crawling onslaught we will now endure.
That is indeed a good read! Thank you for the link.