Analysis

Corbyn confirms Tories briefed him, during Privy Council meeting, on their ‘herd immunity’ strategy that would have killed half a million people

Labour leader and Shadow Health Secretary received confirmation from government of approach that was openly planned then ridiculously denied

Jeremy Corbyn during his tenure as Labour leader

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has confirmed what we all knew: that the Tories’ initial plan for dealing with the coronavirus pandemic was to allow hundreds of thousands to die in the pursuit of ‘herd immunity’.

Boris Johnson’s Chief Scientific Officer described the plan in several media appearances, while Johnson himself told interviewers about ‘taking it on the chin’ and letting the virus run quickly through the population. The SKWAWKBOX immediately pointed out that, with the mortality rates outlined by the World Health Organisation and seen in the Chinese outbreak, the plan would mean letting half a million people die and potentially many more:

The Tories did more than publicly back-track on the plan when pandemic experts pointed out the huge loss of life involved. They pretended it had never existed – even while they continued to pursue it and just changed the language used to describe it.

But in a podcast with left-winger Grace Blakeley, Corbyn confirmed:

  • that the Tories gave him an official briefing as opposition leader that consisted of a “lecture” about herd immunity
  • that he immediately branded the plan ‘absurd’ and a “eugenic formula” that meant “allowing people to die”
  • that huge numbers of people in fact “lost their lives needlessly because of government policy” and a lack of preparedness stretching back a decade

Corbyn also confirmed that Boris Johnson admitted in a meeting between the pair that he “didn’t want to introduce the furlough scheme” and that only “robust” pressure from John McDonnell and the trade unions secured the scheme – a fact revealed exclusively at the time by the SKWAWKBOX.

Corbyn went on to highlight the way in which the coronavirus has “exposed and writ large… inequalities in our society” and condemned “corporate welfare”, arguing that:

if we’re putting money into big companies… then we should be putting in government appointed directors as well to make sure those companies work in the public interest.

Boris Johnson’s intentional pursuit of herd immunity and his weeks-long delay in lockdown or taking any serious measures to prevent its spread is calculated by scientists to have cost as many as 40,000 lives avoidably lost, including a massacre in care homes – increasing to 60,000 by the end of the first phase of the outbreak.

The former ‘Bullingdon boy’ has refused at least twice even to express regret for the needless deaths his actions and inaction had caused.

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69 comments

  1. If I could give this government and their enablers the lonely deaths that my two brothers suffered in the care homes I would.But to actually identify the real culprits is becoming increasingly difficult with the ducking and diving.I over many long years have expected nothing from the conservative and unionist party only contempt for the working-class and the institutions that struggled to provide a pretence of democracy.for us.Murder of the innocent is a CRIME and we must remove them by any method for the good of humanity.

  2. Ps Being has it was the queens Privy council,I assume that the Royals are once again up to their necks in murder and depravity….just wait for the rush in those quing to defend the indefensible and you have your answer to how the Torys keep stealing elections.

  3. Isn’t it anti-Semitic to point claim that the UK government ever talked about herd immunity? What’s the word from Sir Kier?

  4. Deny lie and blame someone else is the mantra of this shower of sh*t government. The LOTO is missing in action. Four more years of this and God only knows what shape this country will be in. As for Bojo the clown ” Sorry seems to be the hardest word” to quote Elton John.

  5. “It would have let a million or more die”. I’ve never read such malicious nonsense outside of tabloid newspapers.Currently we have 1000 a day + infections and around 10 deaths, the same is true across most of the world. It appears to me the disease is burning itself out. And before anyone says so, there is no evidence it’s seasonal (the only seasonal effects will be through clods and flu that the Covid-19 test can’t distinguish against).
    In the real world I inhabit, people are pretty much ignoring social distancing apart from those who need to take it seriously. That is how it should be. There was never any need for a lockdown but we couldn’t have done any worse than releasing thousands of bed-blockers into nursing homes which gave us the worst rates in Europe. If you want to tackle the Tories record, do it on something that actually counts (like their record on care homes) rather than making baseless, malicious, stupid assumptions.

    1. Well said.

      On 1st of August 1,300 000 Berliners had a demonstration to protest the totalitarian type measures against virus which has been weaponized to cower the population.

      In Madrid, over 3000 demonstrators let it be known that they wouldn’t have the wool pulled over their eyes and a demonstration is planned in London.

      Finally, people are beginning to see they are being maneuvered, manipulated and social engineered to believe the Covid-19 measures are the new norm in preparation for the great reset as the World Economic Forum were discussing.

      1. One thing that has already become apparent is our relationship with our GPs has changed forever. While we were out clapping the NHS, our doctor’s surgeries were locked and they remain locked for all but emergencies. Discussing vague symptoms and a general feeling of unexplained malaise will now be conducted over the phone. Yet another step towards privatised health care that only treats emergencies for most of us.

      1. lundiel – “The original Sars virus disappeared on its own. I’m not saying for certain this one will but there is reason for some optimism.”

        SARS didn’t disappear “on its own.”
        There were a number of reasons it ‘died out’, only one of which was the extensive interventions at the time. Of 8000 cases there were about 700 deaths. 29 confirmed cases in the US and no deaths.
        Compared to CV19 it wasn’t transmitted to any great extent by the asymptomatic infected as CV19 is, and it developed serious symptoms in 2-3 days not 2 weeks – a massive influence on how fast and how far disease spreads. It means that although SARS had a death rate of 10%, it was far harder to catch because we naturally steer clear of obviously sick persons.
        The above numbers are confirmed by various sources.

    2. I just love the deniers here and elsewhere they alwase claim this and that but ignore the simple fact people are dying of this virus every dam day. we have no cure.

      You catch it and after 7 days you live or go downhill fast. It’s not just dying that’s the trouble it’s the dammage done to the lungs that can have long term health issues. How back to the inconvenient deaths these people ignore.
      We now know you can catch it again and again. So it has alwase another chance of getting you next time. I really don’t understand the ceronic smug idiots that love to play russian roulette with all of our lives?

      But the complain it’s only a small chance! So beeding what it’s still there isn’t it? So please stop with the there is nothing to worry about rubbish probably bought and paid for from the Tory shills until there are no deaths then we can relax, then and only then!

      1. The top 10 causes of death

        Of the 56.9 million deaths worldwide in 2016, more than half (54%) were due to the top 10 causes. Ischaemic heart disease and stroke are the world’s biggest killers, accounting for a combined 15.2 million deaths in 2016. These diseases have remained the leading causes of death globally in the last 15 years.

        Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease claimed 3.0 million lives in 2016, while lung cancer (along with trachea and bronchus cancers) caused 1.7 million deaths. Diabetes killed 1.6 million people in 2016, up from less than 1 million in 2000. Deaths due to dementias more than doubled between 2000 and 2016, making it the 5th leading cause of global deaths in 2016 compared to 14th in 2000.

        Lower respiratory infections remained the most deadly communicable disease, causing 3.0 million deaths worldwide in 2016. The death rate from diarrhoeal diseases decreased by almost 1 million between 2000 and 2016, but still caused 1.4 million deaths in 2016. Similarly, the number of tuberculosis deaths decreased during the same period, but is still among the top 10 causes with a death toll of 1.3 million. HIV/AIDS is no longer among the world’s top 10 causes of death, having killed 1.0 million people in 2016 compared with 1.5 million in 2000.

        Road injuries killed 1.4 million people in 2016, about three-quarters (74%) of whom were men and boys.

        https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

        Coronavirus Deaths

        798,013

  6. Joseph Goebbels:

    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

    In my blog I have consistently pointed out that fascist credentials of the Johnson / Cummings Axis. Manipulating information is a cornerstone of fascism and Goebbels was its biggest advocate. Then there was Martin Bormann

    ‘Martin Ludwig Bormann was a German Nazi Party official and head of the Nazi Party Chancellery. He gained immense power by using his position as Adolf Hitler’s private secretary to control the flow of information and access to Hitler.’ (Wikipedia) This could easily be a description of Dominic Cummings.

    Boris Johnson’s Tories lie consistently and systematically. The aim isn’t just to get out of various fixes, but to ultimately so blur what is truth and what is a lie, that it will be impossible to know, and they will operate unchecked in a vacuum where accountability no longer exists.

    https://lovesexwomenmenpoliticspoetrylifedeath.wordpress.com/

    1. Sadly,it isn’t just Johnson’s Tories,I find it is a thread running through “liberal” opinion and groups too.The right of the LP appears to be attempting to rewrite the history of the LP over the last 4/5 years.For instance there appears to be an attempt underway to blame Corbyn for the ’19 defeat because he wanted Brexit so badly he worked to get Johnson into no 10,thus turning reality on its head.I have never known the corporate media including the BBC be so blatant in their lies and partiality as over the last couple of decades.

  7. Begs the question of what took Corbyn so long to come out with it? I’m starting to wonder if Corbyn ever actually had the guts for a fight. He should’ve spilled this a looong time ago.

    @ lundiel: ”It appears to me the disease is burning itself out.” Oh really? Has the flu’ (that people are so eager to compare covid to) ”burnt itself out”??

    <Malicious nonsense Oh aye? Since fucking WHEN has being concerned not just for people’s wellbeing, but for their lives, been considered ‘malicious nonsense”? FFS? Not only does this virus kill, it also disables.

    Who are you to determine how many lives should be lost before you allow the rest of us to be concerned? The government are duty-bound to prevent even a single death and they’ve failed (Suspiciously purposefully) – but it’s MY fault for being concerned that they’ve fucked up monumentally; and continue to do so?

    You and the other nihilists believe I should gamble with the health & wellbeing of me and mine to satisfy YOUR confidence?

    On other matters, lundiel, you’re pretty much on the button, on this matter you and the other nihilists can fucking well get bent,

    I’ll ask you the question I’ve asked the others of your mindset.

    Are you willing to go and gain your own immunity by contracting the virus? Or are you gonna act like one of those soviet commissars for the first few months of Operation Barbarossa; the type that shot their own unarmed soldiers if they refused to charge the enemy lines with nowt but a bastard penknife?

    Like the toerags, you’re placing the blame on the wrong people’s shoulders. But we’re supposedly the toerags for not trusting the fuckers, and not wanting to put ourselves at risk in order to make them fatter while they take ZERO risk and we see NO benefit.

    Weird.

    1. You silly little man with your shouty, sweary, “I’m an old school working class northerner and proud of it” style of writing. We’ve just had a decade of austerity that killed far more people than Covid-19 is ever likely to and economically we are already in a position that’s four times worse than the crash of 2008. Government has to protect against all threats, not throw everything at one.

      1. Well Lundiel, as a sometime shouty and sweary (you do realise you sound like bloody Rees Mogg going down that route) old school – and old herself – working class 5′ tall little northern woman, I totally agree with The Toffee’s response regarding your comments on coronavirus.

        Such a patronising response isn’t going to win you any converts I’m afraid.

      2. Oh dear, someone’s rattled, aren’t they? Resorting to the tired, old RH insult of: ‘Eh up, lad, am a wurkin class northener, wot wimmee flat cap an whippets’ bollocks.

        That all you’ve got? I had you down as some sort of erudite, well-versed commentator, too. But I guess even I can get it (badly) wrong on (extremely) rare occasions.

        Austerity? The idealogically-imposed by the toerags austerity, would that be? Of course the monet (sic) soon came along quick enough, didn’t it?

        And yes, of course world economies are suffering. But NOT the 12 richest men on the planet, strangely enough.

        Not the rich in general, in fact. Or the elite classes – who are now making veiled slurs that the furloughed are scrounging.

        I haven’t seen them having to stay off work to look after their progeny, look after their elderly and/or disabled and vulnerable relatives, have you?

        I haven’t seen rees-smog or gidiot osborne or their type sat at outside my local supermarket or train station, singing: ‘Brother can you spare a dime’ for some spare change, recently – have you?

        Mind you, have you ever seen them actually DO any work? Last time I looked rees-smog was sprawled across the front bench having a kip ffs! Fucking exhausting, filing all them expense claim forms & (subsidised to the hilt) luncheon appointments, eh?

        Oh, they’re alright telling ME to get out and pull the tripes out of meself for minimum fucking wage AND risk my health in the process to make THEM even richer while I get the sum total of fuck-all from it (See nurses’ payrise) AND they think I should tug my fucking forelock in gratitude at carrying out their demand.

        And you back their stance over mine? It’s only a bit of ‘flu? Well you can fuck right off as well. And so can anyone else with that same view, for that matter. Choosing tory mantra over your own class…Filthy sellout rats.

        But you have it your way…I’m surely not the only one to have noticed that since you’ve come back you seem to have gone out of your way to antagonize people that hold a different view, than make valid points.

      3. So enlighten us, lundiel

        What’s the difference between the idealogically-imposed toerag austerity, and the idealogically-imposed ‘herd immunity’?

        And why are you damningly critical of one, but openly supportive of the other?

      4. You’ve obviously hit the target there, lundiel, in the parade of ignorance that frequently manifests itself here in relation to Covid and the fact of ‘herd immunity’ – a bad name for a natural phenomenon that is the only solution to an infective outbreak.

        Of course – this lock-up has been a disaster – and, indeed, it is population immunity that has clearly reduced Covid to its now insignificant levels.

        Meanwhile, the Tooting Left continues to screw the working class by subscribing to all the Scary Fairty nonsense imposed by Mr Toad and his spiv government, whilst their Punch-and-Judy enemy, Starmer, does much the same.

        No wonder the Tories walk away with the glittering prizes.

      5. And here he is, right on cue…

        Orite Dicky lad? Seeing as lundiel refuses to, maybe you can tell me why you’re so keen on Tory idealogy herd immunity that will kill 000’s and HAS killed 41k+ in just seven months, but have criticised Tory idealogical imposed austerity which has killed 120k+ over ten years?

        Let’s hear it, clever dicky.

      6. I have never expected to convert anyone. People are much too partisan to be converted and the media has done it’s usual first class job of frightening everyone half to death.
        Incidentally, I’m a working class woman who lives in a council flat in a tower block, about a million miles away from Rees Mogg. But I’m also a Socialist who’s a million miles away from the LibDems, which is what you lot sound like.

      7. I don’t refuse anything toffee. Of course a Johnson government would look for a solution that didn’t crash the economy before it tried another. But as soon as the WHO had announced a global pandemic they decided to “follow the advice of the experts”……people like the epidemiologist who got every highly infectious disease he ever modeled totally wrong, and cost us billions to boot. Just as these experts were predicting one thing, others were presenting evidence to the contrary. Therefore the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. To get back to your question, I can’t answer it because while the government may have been acting ideologically at first, they changed their tune when facing global opinion in the form of the WHO who aren’t totally independent. Austerity and this disease response aren’t two of a kind unless you’re a libdem snowflake.

      8. RH now has the gall and the self-delusion to claim that herd immunity is “the only solution to an infective outbreak.”
        In other words he claims quarantine and barrier measures (PPE) are useless.
        He wants to throw away 500 years of progress and say “Fuck you” to everyone who’s died and will die of CV19.
        Well fuck you and every other Tory mole on this site trying to convince people that BloJob’s initial ‘plan’ to do nothing was the ‘sensible’ course of inaction.

      9. And lundiel apparently thinks scientists should base their advice to governments on the best-case scenario of a new disease, not the worst – the opposite of the precautionary principle.
        Not preparing for the worst case leaves the response to outbreaks in a continual state of catch-up – the precautionary principle says prepare for the worst, hope for the best and keep the information flowing freely.

        The Tories had run down stocks of essential PPE and lied about it.
        Johnson and Cummings cast ‘the science’ in the most superficial and optimistic light until events overtook them, then they dragged their arses in correcting their early mistakes.
        Then they spent vast fortunes trying to conceal shortages, fudge the numbers and hide their own incompetence.

        Starmer’s cut from the same cloth – do whatever it takes to cover your own arse. If the people complain, do whatever it takes to silence them.

      10. lundiel’s just another brianbotty, or maybe just another of his/her multiple ‘personalities’.
        I’ll take shouty/sweary over deluded trollbot any time, thanks.

    2. Are you willing to go and gain your own immunity by contracting the virus?

      Sure, given that only a tiny proportion of people CAN contract it. Where’s the queue?

      1. ”Sure, given that only a tiny proportion of people CAN contract it.”

        Says who, and based on what?

      2. Based on the statistics. I should’ve said “contract it to a significant degree”. The vast majority shrug it off if indeed they notice anything at all.

    3. I see, lundiel. Just to make crystal clear…

      Disagree veghemently with tory idealogy austerity that has ‘murdered’ 120k over ten years = socialist. champion of the ordinary people, defender of the downtrodden.

      Disagree vehemently with tory idealogy ‘herd immunity’ that has seen<b ‘only’ 41k+** deaths over a mere seven months, is by no means finished, and with a massive proportion of the population still to contract the virus PLUS the risk of the virus mutating before a vaccine is produced = liberal snowflake.

      I’m now a liberal snowflake. Ooops, my bad (as they say)

      (steve h, your crown of ‘colossal weirdo’ is under serious peril, lad, best get on here and make some sort of distraction before lundiel seizes your throne)

      ** And I’m giving the benefit of the doubt with the 41k figure

      1. Now, now you’re at it again. Where did I say “is by no means finished, and with a massive proportion of the population still to contract the virus PLUS the risk of the virus mutating before a vaccine is produced”? I didn’t so don’t go making out as if I did, you sound like a journalist. With regards to SteveH…..you and he are singing from the same hymn book on this.😱

    4. You’re wondering if Corbyn had the courage of his fight? I’m CERTAIN it’s more to do with him knowing the vastness of the lie that we are being subjected to, and him not wanting to frighten the horses or the children.

      This is unprecedented

  8. ”Like the toerags, you’re placing the blame on the wrong people’s shoulders.”

    Sorry, I didn’t mean to say ‘placing the blame on the wrong people’s shoulders’

    Meant ‘criticising the wrong people’

  9. Spilled it to who? The corporate media and the BBC who were totally hostile to him?

    1. The corporate media and the BBC who were totally hostile to him?

      They still ARE, Allan.

      However, there HAS been one constantly critical voice throughout; a certain piers moron. And don’t kid yourself that he’d have dismissed it at the time, because that’d have been another opportunity for his self-promotion and he’d have taken it, no danger, because we all of kinw for certain know he’ll take a self-promotion opportunity over any publicly perceived fickleness, each and every time.

      Although now, because of Corbyn’s delay…

      1. Because of Corbyn’s delay WHAT?

        And I suppose the corporate media and the BBC weren’t able to ascertain for themselves what the ‘herd immunity’ option would lead to.

        Ah, I just did a search to see if this was being covered by the MSM at all, and it is, at least by the Guardian and the BBC and the Mirror. So I checked out the Mirror article, and the following is a clip from it:

        Mr Corbyn attended confidential meetings on ‘privy council’ terms at the start of the pandemic, before he stood down as Labour leader at the start of April.

        https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-says-given-herd-22545308

        But I then also found an Express article from May 21st in which Jeremy said the following:

        “First of all, they denied it was happening, then they started on some completely absurd herd immunity route.

        “I can recall sitting in the cabinet offices being told that herd immunity was something that would develop naturally in society.”

        Mr Corbyn added: “Jon Ashworth and I looked at each other and wondered if we were in a meeting of sanity or not because it was ludicrous.

        “Surely if there is a communicable, highly contagious disease around, you deal with it medically and socially by supporting people who are victims of it.

        “You don’t wait for people to get it in order to die to build up some kind of herd immunity…..”

        Link below

      2. Think about it. Because of Corbyn’s delay, Allan, it will give the lies of moron (and the rest of the msm for that matter) an excuse to criticise Corbyn further – or even dismiss his claim outright. if a government ‘spokesperson’ denies it.

        How many times does delay cast doubt on claims, in all sorts of instances, Allan?

        As for your referral to the daily excess article, ashworth’s failure to press this claim (He’s been on TV enough times to have made it, but I’m yet to see him have done so) should also not go unscrutinized, neither.

        But then again, ashworth’s neither use nor ornament anyway. Another fifth columnist.

      3. Why on earth would Johnson and Co deny it Toffee when it was common knowlege at the time, or very, very shortly AFTER the Privy Council meeting. The following is a clip from a Guardian article from March 13th:

        Sir Patrick Vallance, England’s chief scientific adviser, has defended the government’s approach to tackling the coronavirus, saying it could have the benefit of creating “herd immunity” across the population.

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/coronavirus-science-chief-defends-uk-measures-criticism-herd-immunity

      4. Just came across the following Indy article from June 2nd. Here’s the headline and the sub-headline and a clip from it:

        Boris Johnson ‘told Italy’s prime minister’ he wanted ‘herd immunity’ to defeat coronavirus, TV documentary reveals

        Government denials undermined by revelation of mid-March conversation between the two leaders

        Boris Johnson told Italy’s prime minister he was aiming for “herd immunity” to defeat coronavirus, an explosive TV documentary has revealed, despite No 10 denying that was ever the policy.

        The Italian health minister has undermined the government’s repeated denials by recounting a conversation between the two leaders on 13 March, as the pandemic neared its peak.

        https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-uk-boris-johnson-herd-immunity-dispatches-channel-4-italy-prime-minister-a9544916.html

        PS Yes, things very often get confusing when liars are involved – ie when one tries to unravel and relate it all that is!

  10. ”because we all of kinw for certain”

    You what, mate?

    Meant to read: ‘because we all of us know’ (Me fingers are not having a good day again)

  11. RH21/08/2020 AT 11:31 AM

    Of course – this lock-up has been a disaster – and, indeed, it is population immunity that has clearly reduced Covid to its now insignificant levels.

    The absolute fuck is ^^^^ THIS??? ‘

    ‘Population immunity’? What ARE you babbling on about? If there is ‘population immunity’ and it’s only affecting ‘insignificant levels’ then WHY are there local lockdowns? Why haven’t the government ALREADY lifted each and every imposition – as was their stated intent once their ‘herd immunity’ goal has been reached?

    You deludely claim it’s been reached with your ‘population immunity’. Or are the two somehow different? It certainly doesn’t sound like it to me.

    Oh, and how many people are YET to contract covid? Numbers backed by evidence, please.

    Unless you’re telling us you’re privy to information to corroborate your fanciful claims, then you have NO IDEA, so you’d best desist from harping on about your totally fabricated ‘population immunity’ bollocks.

    The only people who are KNOWN to be ‘immune’ are the dead.

    Stop portraying your GUESSES as FACTS.

    And answer my earlier question as regards to why you are against tory idealogy austerity but agree wholeheartedly with tory idealogy herd immunity…

    1. If one was to accept the premise of your question, which I don’t, there is a simple answer. Because austerity that is 4 times worse than the last will kill many, many times more people than coronavirus.

      1. NHS stated in June 95% all fatalities related to the “ pandemic “ had 1 or more serious illnesses. In plain English 5% died from Covid -19 as the primary cause of death.
        According to the NHS, the median age of death is about 80 years old.

        The average life expectancy in the U.K. is about 80 years of age. The total fatalities to date of Covid 19 is 41, 403, the population of the U.K. is about 66,500,231, the ratio of fatalities to population is 0.0623%.

        The initial estimates which the WHO used in order to justify the “ pandemic “ was about 1% = 665,002 possible fatalities.

        Therefore, the original calculation was out by 0. 9377 or 665002-41,403 = 623,599 potential fatalities.

        Therefore, the premise of the basis of the “ pandemic “ was deeply flawed.

        However, there should be no surprise there since the WHO based the notion of the “ Pandemic “ on Professor Ferguson and Imperial College’s software estimates.

      2. “NHS stated in June 95% all fatalities related to the “ pandemic “ had 1 or more serious illnesses. In plain English 5% died from Covid -19 as the primary cause of death.”
        In plain English that is a deliberate lie- a sleight of hand distortion and a propagandist’s trick.

    2. No lundiel, the reason you refuse to accept the premise of my question is because you cannot justify your stance on wanting to abolish one and encouraging the other one to continue.

      The outcome of both is the same. People are dying as a direct result of their idealogy.

      Your ambiguity is vile.

    3. Contrary to RH’s and others’ assertions, it’s not even proven that a mild, or a symptomless, or even a full-blown case of CV19 confers any immunity at all – much less for long enough to make herd immunity function.
      Immunity may last only a matter of a few weeks for this as it does for other coronaviruses, which makes nonsense of herd immunity as a viable plan before there’s even a vaccine.
      Herd immunity occurs in many diseases but it relies on minimum levels of vaccination and on predictable durations of post-vaccination immunity.

  12. Silly old toffee.

    Status of COVID-19
    As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK.

    The 4 nations public health HCID group made an interim recommendation in January 2020 to classify COVID-19 as an HCID. This was based on consideration of the UK HCID criteria about the virus and the disease with information available during the early stages of the outbreak. Now that more is known about COVID-19, the public health bodies in the UK have reviewed the most up to date information about COVID-19 against the UK HCID criteria. They have determined that several features have now changed; in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall), and there is now greater clinical awareness and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continues to increase.

    The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) is also of the opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.

    The government has never changed its opinion on this but shortly after publishing it on directgov they went into lockdown. The recommendation above made me revise my opinion of the danger facing us and nothing I’ve read since has changed my opinion, indeed it’s strengthened it.
    Stop trying to make me out as a murderer.

    1. lundiel, on 19th March there were 643 new cases and 43 deaths – on April 10th, 3 weeks later, there were 8,681 new cases and 1152 deaths.

      Your comment is a bit vague on the timeline but suggests your opinion was formed on 19th March and you’ve seen nothing since to change it.
      That can’t be what you meant, surely?

  13. There are now three regular contributors to this comment section advancing the peculiar nonsense-born of paranoid US politics of the same kind that gave us “Holocaust denial”, anti- Flouride and antivaxx campaigns against many others.
    The arguments lundiel, RH and Brian Boru use are all -in the final analysis- apologies for the ruling class, justifications of its callous and exterminatory instincts and denials of the foundation of modern socialism, the link between the ruling class and the capitalist system.
    Lundiel , Brian and RH are on the way to believing in imperialist aliens from outer space, vapour trails and the Protocols of the Elders.
    But, ludicrous as their arguments appear this ideological trend represents one of the biggest threat to socialist ideas: the response of the capitalists to Covid (UK,US, Brazil, India, Sweden etc) is a reminder that this system is a squeamish man’s version of cannibalism-the transmutation of elderly pensioners into pennies on the stock market. It is not an alternative to austerity but part of it. And austerity is the central theme of capitalism’s history- the stealing of the commons and their privatisation. The victims in the ‘care’ homes are human sacrifices to the great god of profit, of capital accumulation. What the Tories are doing to the vulnerable today is exactly what the Poor Law of 1834 and the Famines in Bengal and Ireland did -and were intended to do- to our ancestors.
    The conspiracy is in plain sight: it is called class society and capitalist exploitation.

    1. Is ad hominem , slime and smear your only your only form of rebuttal to evidence based factual challenges to the establishment narrative about the ” pandemic “.

    2. “But, ludicrous as their arguments appear this ideological trend represents one of the biggest threat to socialist ideas”
      You wouldn’t know a Socialist idea if it kicked you in the face ‘Blair’. You are giving your full support to an economic reset the likes of which we’ve never seen before. You will be happy with the new order of people working from home, businesses going bust, empty high streets, mass unemployment, negative equity, hundreds of thousands of people with mental health problems who are to scared to go out, public transport decimated. All because of the low overall mortality rates of a disease public bodies don’t consider to be a high consequence infectious disease but which you cling to as a sign of your empathy without giving a thought to the consequences.
      On top of that you try and link anyone who thinks differently, yet argues politely, with crazed American libertarians and Nazis …..shame on you.

      1. It doesn’t matter how much factual evidence, how many times it is pointed out the instances of Covid19 is well well well below the original estimate of 1.0 % ( currently about 0.0623%), it makes not the slightest jot of difference to point out the estimates of well well over 500,000 fatalities or the large number of hospital wards lying empty because the Tsunami of serious ill patients from it never materialised.

        The zealot like faith in the propaganda being pumped out by the establishment will not be shaken. At least not with many in the U.K.

        However, the 1,300,000 Germans in Berlin who made their feelings very clear in a demonstration against the draconian measures being enacted that they are being not taken in by the “ pandemic “.

        In addition, the fact ( not a word that the true believers like to see) that the economy has nose dived by over 20%, in the US it’s over 32% , unemployment will increase dramatically as will homelessness, malnutrition, and poverty plus the hundreds of thousands of cancelled operations which will invariably lead to more deaths, still does not prevent the true believers in the their hypnotic zealot like faith in the messages of the establishment propaganda machine about the “ pandemic “.

        The writing is on the wall in very large letters what the next steps will be !!!

    3. bevin, regards what you said about the anti-fluoride campaigners, I suggest you invest in a copy of The Fluoride Deception, although there’s reams of stuff on the web about the health impacts of fluordating the water supply, and hundeds – probably thousands – of research papers to that effect:

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fluoride-Deception-Christopher-Bryson/dp/1583227008/ref=sr_1_32?dchild=1&keywords=fluoride&qid=1598033505&s=books&sr=1-32

      PS Have you never noticed the Warning on fluoridated toothpaste?!

  14. Bevin, let’s see your evidence which contradicts the figures from the NHS in June that 95 % died with 1 or more fatalities and 5% died of Covid 19 as the PRIMARY CAUSE OF DEATH !!!

  15. Cases in France is now back up to levels last seen in May 4K yesterday. Why are you only looking at the UK?

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