Labour ‘moderates’ tar Corbyn’s closest advisers with blame for loss – even though those same advisers warned against consequences of push for new referendum
Labour’s so-called ‘moderates’ have attacked Jeremy Corbyn’s closest advisers in a way that involves an outright inversion of reality.
Labour’s 2017 manifesto contained an unequivocal commitment to enact the 2016 referendum result – taking the UK out of the EU, but on the terms of a Labour deal. That commitment formed a core part of Labour’s promise that saw Labour win its biggest gain in vote share since 1945 – and smash Theresa May’s parliamentary majority.
In the period between that election and the 2019 ballot, Corbyn’s advisers – Karie Murphy and Seumas Milne and others – spent at least a year warning him that any departure from that 2017 position would be catastrophic for Labour in the towns of its northern heartlands, which overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU.
Corbyn abandoned the 2017 commitment under pressure from the right and centre, to move to a promise to hold a new referendum – and the predicted catastrophe took place in those ‘Labour leave’ towns last week.
Since that result last week, those who pushed Corbyn into that rash move have been attacking the very people who warned against it – and blaming them for the consequences.
SKWAWKBOX view:
As the so-called ‘moderates’ try to destroy not only Corbyn but the entire politics of the left, the entire Labour movement is being gaslighted.
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For the benefit of RH, before he gets on his hobby horse again:
Try doing some basic research by asking those who were knocking on doors in the majority of lost seats what the majority of voters in those seats were bringing up.
Whether you like it or not (and,I certainly don’t) the stark reality is that of the non-delivery of Brexit and the change in the Party stance on the issue since 2017 was THE killer in those seats.
If you want to stick your head in the sand that’s your problem but please, sunshine, stop insulting everyone’s intelligence with this pish that Brexit and the Party stance – deliberately pushed by the extreme center in the Party to achieve this just to get back control of he Party – was not the key reason for the loss of those key seats to rhecTories promising to deliver the 2016 result to those seats which voted that way.
RH?
Jan Brooker ..He’s just very moderate RH.but confused 😕
Joseph
RH is not the son of Blair he is just a very naughty boy,
The absolute travesty is Leave would have won the referendum 80/20,
I dont have anytime for Labour leavers who voted cheap and nasty party, for simple reason all polling indicates they want No Deal
So fuck em, i voted leave but have nothing in common with these Little Ingerlanders
I see that Clive Lewis has joined the Leadership race
I’d hate to disappoint in the race of hobby horses, one of which is based on anecdote, the other on wider evidence.
Certainly, some Tory-voting respondents cited ‘Brexit’ – after all, they responded to the Tory propaganda line – and probably did in the referendum, given the SunMail propaganda that was overwhelming from that time..
However, the evidence is there to see – that it was the loss of Remain votes to LibDems and Greens across the country that was numerically most significant. Despite a chunk returning to Labour after the backing of a second referendum, it was this that left the gap. This area – against the odds – kept a Labour MP. And what you previously heard when votes were leaking was not ‘We should have gone for Brexit’ but ‘I’m not voting for a Brexit Party’
‘Extreme centre’ : what a contradiction in terms. No. The problem was Labour initially – and particularly the confused Lexitories – riding a hobby horse bred in the stables of the extreme right. The solid real left in the Party were always majority Remain. The use of terms like ‘Centrists’ and ‘Right’ here have lost any ,meaning beyond playground bawling.
Beyond that, the reasons for defeat were not ‘Brexit’.Above all, it was the same, continuing biased propaganda campaign – particularly against Corbyn; it was being forced into a Tory timing for the election; it was gullibility to Tory sloganising; it was failure to counter the anti-semitism slurs ….. etc. etc.
Sqwawkbox never supported the Labour Party on this issue – it would be naive to expect a change from supporting this Tory policy now. It’s known as ‘self-justification’. In the end, such sloganising is Blair’s best friend.
If it was the ‘same’ propaganda in 2019 that caused the collapse how do you explain the very different result from that in 2017?
‘Extreme centre’ : what a contradiction in terms.
RH you should read Tariq Ali’s excellent book The Extreme Centre…
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extreme-Centre-Warning-Tariq-Ali/dp/1784782629
Paul – Your question is a valid one. To which the simple answer is ‘2017 wasn’t 2019’. That seems a bit flip – but it isn’t : the circumstances and perceptions became very different in those two years. One thing that happened was a cumulative piling on of anti-Labour rhetoric that became more and more pronounced.
During much of the period, the rend of declining support for Labour and for the Tories echoed each other’s track.
The real divergence occurred with the ‘Boris bounce’ and the transfer of votes from the Brexit Party – votes that would always have gone mainly to the Tories. And did. Labour didn’t recapture the same percentage of Remain votes. The polling tracks are fascinating in the mirror images they present.
The nail in the coffin was the trap of an early election called on Tory timing. Many of us saw this as a fatal event – it needed longer to undermine the image of Johnson that appealed to the older, less informed Brexit voters. I was convinced privately that Labour had lost at that point.
In the end, the only real surprise was that it wasn’t the 20-30 overall majority that I reckoned at the beginning of November as a rough estimate. The rest is history.
As you say the election was called on Tory timing before Brexit was resolved which meant they could argue they’d fix it. By this time the soft centre in Labour began to campaign for Remain at whatever cost. In the event the cost was heavy defeat. It was two fingers up to people like me who’d voted Leave, don’t you understand that? It was made worse because it was contrary to Party policy and therefore the whole structure became wobbly with nobody (voters!) sure what the policy was – except it wasn’t Corbyn’s.
It’s near impossible to argue that media bias in 2019 was SO qualitatively different from that in 2017 it was powerful enough to have made SUCH a difference to the vote. Why then was it the Labour vote in London held up but plummeted in the Midlands and North? Simply because London was happy with what appeared to be a ‘Remain or Bust’ policy while other places were frankly furious. That fury was ignored at the time and even now the fiction of “sudden increase of bias from MSM” is being peddled to spare the blushes of Swinson like stupidity. Legs and bells come to mind.
Another couple of good questions, Paul :
“t’s near impossible to argue that media bias in 2019 was SO qualitatively different from that in 2017”
It wasn’t so much the qualitiative difference : it was the sustained *quantitative* effect. Apart from the sheer effect of repetition, the intensity did increase, with the combined Right/Israel lobby becoming more emboldened. Remember that in the last year, they managed to line up the Chief Rabbi, the Archbishop of Canterbury and two previous heads of MI6 – just for starters. And – the MSM managed virtually a *total* blackout on contrary narratives.
“Why then was it the Labour vote in London held up but plummeted in the Midlands and North?”
Demographics as much as history. It was a massive misunderstanding to think of the old industrial areas with a larger, older, less educated, SunMail reading population was the ‘Labour heartlands’. Things have been shifting for some time, as those of us who live there know. Remember – there was still a *genuine* and younger Labour vote and also older voters with real conviction, but the balance of habit has shifted.
The metropolitan areas, on the other hand were balanced the other way demographically – they are now the real ‘Labour heartlands’ that we would have alienated on a ‘Leave’ agenda.
There is a grieving process going on – but this shift started in the early Thatcher era, when neoliberal policies were first sold as the infrastructure of the old industrial areas was destroyed. Faulty history won’t do the job, and, as I’ve said – real Labour ‘heartland’ voters don’t vote Tory on the basis of a whim. It’s as simple as that. Proof of the pudding etc.
A ‘sustained quantitative’ increase of media pressure between 17 and 19 wasn’t enough to turn the vote even if it existed at all. It raises the unlikely situation where the Mail, SIS, the Church and the Tories decided to ‘go a bit easy on Corbyn in 2017 anticipating they’d need the extra push when there was another election very soon. Breathtaking insight. If they’d lost in 17 they would have felt very foolish! One gets the impression that those fashioning the smears go all out, every time. Look at events in 1924 for example. The forged letter said to be from the Chairman of Comintern, Grigory Zinoviev, was given to the Mail by MI6 for publication 4 days before the election that consequently saw a Tory landslide and the Liberals completely busted, never to gain power again until 2010. The suggestion Labour would pursue a Bolshevik Revolution if they won was quite enough to do the trick.
And so obvious, Dave Hansell. Ignore the RH troll. But their are humans who genuinely still can’t see it. You can hear them on LBC & Talkradio and in real life as i heard before and after an EXCELLENT Redpepper event. Well educated people with all the theory. Lovely people but with no down to earth grasp of the basics. Amongst the packed audience and one practically radiant be MP there was MUCH that is needed. Ie ACUTE OBSERVATION and as far as the MP – ACTION on the ground. She was neither defeatist, unclear nor once spouted theory. Each contribution from the floor, which overflowed with URGENT INSIGHT, … each was hurried on to return to the “top” who had ample opportunity to have their say and did. In fact, Brian Eno and Hillary Wainwright in particular, said that they were repeating what they said before. The chairperson failed to see the IRONY that he was emblematic of a TOP DOWN approach.
Its seems to me what the Blairites and centrists are doing is more sinister than apportioning blame ,it was easy to see early on this would happen but I did not expect them to attempt to rewrite history .If they succeed Blair will attempt to do the same
And they are pushing an election down our throats with glee.Most of the candidates either folowers of the Mickey mouse moderates or plotters.And the rest ..leaders?not for me !
Does yourcarertakesugar?. The establishment have been rewriting history since the reformation with the replacment of one set of gentry with another and a foreign all powerful Monarch.,Replaced a corrupt religion with a compliant one,destroyed a thousand years of history and Art .and called it the age of enlightenment,and made sure that the loyalists of the old religion were outcasts and papist plotters.The same people still call the shots now.and do not want socialist thinking or anyone who does not tow the line.Look around you and open your eyes Look at the heaps of rubble that were seats of learning and teaching of the Arts,burnt and torn down,consigned to their version of history. We are up against the most successful religion in the history of the planet GREED,also known as Capitalism.
I see Tony leader of the “moderates” is very much to the forefront of the attacks on Jeremy today. He always has been of course but his morning he hasn’t hidden behind others – he’s come out into the open.
Well Tony you might think Jeremy is just about the worst leader we could possibly have but you are wrong. YOU were a disaster for Labour the country and indeed the whole world and your decision to illegally invade Iraq was the worst decision any PM has made in living memory. Indeed I would say it was the worst decision of any PM ever.
That decision was made based on untrue intelligence reports for which Richard Dearlove another Corbyn critic was responsible.
You had promised Bush a year earlier that you would ” be with him whatever” so you had to get parliament to agree to the illegal invasion of Iraq and you used the “sexed up” “dodgy dossier”containing Dearlove’s faulty intelligence to convince “moderate”MPs and others that the invasion was essential to protect us against Iraq’s non- existent “weapons of mass destruction”. You claimed these could be launched against us in 45 minutes.
That was the point at which I realised you were exaggerating the threat which in turn led me and millions like me to question the whole WMD story- unfortunately this reasoning process was beyond the capabilities many of the”moderate”Labour MPs now baying for Jeremy Corbyn’s blood.
A number of decent MPs good brave people were determined to do the right thing and vote against the invasion when you were determined to do the wrong thing – Tory Kenneth Clarke , the late Robin Cook who resigned from the Cabinet over the issue, the late Michael Meacher a member of the Socialist campaign group , Diane Abbott and John McDonnell also members of the group and others including JEREMY CORBYN then a scarcely known backbencher who led the resistance to the invasion and was a founder of the Stop the War campaign (which unbelievably was later used as to support the antisemitism slur against him).
Today 16 years later it is estimated that as a result of your illegal invasion Tony 500,000 plus lives have been lost including 172 soldiers who you sent to Iraq ill equipped for ordinary warfare let alone chemical warfare . Also ISIS took over where Sadam left off and has terrorised the Region and the world ever since.
The only thing about this appalling and shaming episode we have no information about is where the profits from Iraq’s oil industry went during and after the invasion.I don’t suppose you’ll ever feel the need to
enlighten us Tony.
Anyway the bottom line is you have an absolute nerve to criticise any Labour leader ( and I have not even mentioned your policy on welfare, student fees or PFI) given the disasterous results of your warmongering and so too have your former cabinet members who have been queuing up to criticise and undermine Jeremy Corbyn – Peter Hain Jack Straw David Blunkett Peter Mandleson etc.
Jeremy is worth 10 of the lot of you put together. You are all totally shameless and are a national disgrace.
“BY DECEPTION WE DO WAR”
Mossad’s motto.
The hands of the Israeli government are all over the anti-Semitism smears against Labour and after doing their dirty work they slunk away like thieves in the night. With the help of their agents in Labour, many of whom are still there in the JLM and elsewhere, Israel set out to usurp our democracy and destroy Jeremy Corbyn’s chance to become our PM. We have to recognise who they are and have our own witch hunt, otherwise there will never be true democracy in the Labour Party. To do that, we need to start with the NEC who are worse than useless.
It wasn’t just Corbyn who committed the error of appeasing the Zionists, it was Angela Rayner, John McDonnell and particularly Rebecca Long Baily who is still under the influence of the JLM and must in no circumstances become Leader of the Labour Party.
We know that the BBC also took part in this assasination of Labour, the evidence is overwhelming and it is particularly evident now that they are falling over themselves to give Blair, the arch Zionist and accomplice to the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis plus British troops, as much TV time as possible to attack Corbyn.
The only person I have seen mention any of this is Chris Williamson. Is it any wonder the Zionists and Zionist supporters such as Rebecca Long Baily wanted to get rid of him when he should now be the major contender for Leadership of the Labour Party!
https://twitter.com/derbychrisw/status/1206831392258232320?s=11
Jack T,
Its awfully nice for you to move the subject matter on from Brexit and underscore a few other key issues that ensured many voters were put off putting a X next to Labour – however, as many of us warned and warned against when it became apparent the LP was joining the LibDems in sticking two fingers up to a democratic outcome, which, as far as the PLP goes is something they seem to do on a regular basis, the fact must also be acknowledged that the move away from the 2017 position was electoral suicide, as, it also transpires, was not allowing the Tories to own Brexit, lock, stock and barrel – the dithering over whether to even go for an Election after the Conference vote did not help, but the machinations of the Centrists to forestall Brexit at any cost, cost us dear, and has positioned many more seats to swing Tory once the Brexit Party implodes – it is those voters who went Brexit Party that are the ones Labour needs to win over again, which its hardly going to do if it continues down its identity politics pathway, which many in working class areas don’t understand, or support for that matter, given they have many other pressing issues, which our Centrist chums don’t really give a toss about, had they done so, this reckless Brexit policy would never have seen the light of day.
So, its one hell of a spectacle for the same Remainacs and malcontents within the PLP, and the PLP’s rancid former leadership to heap all the blame for Labour’s losses on Corbyn’s shoulders and his small team of advisers, whom, we now learn were utterly opposed to this about face on Brexit.
The maths was always quite simple, namely their was more to be lost in moving to a Remain position, than sticking to the 2017 position as last Thursday’s results demonstrate, and, its the Remainiac extremists and coalition of London-centric supposed Leftist that dug a grave for us, a grave that JC and his advisers where forced to jump into at gunpoint. The sad fact is this, had JC not capitulated to Watson’s threat of splitting the Party in March, and allowed all the Centrists to peel off, which was always necessary to cleanse the Blairite stain from the Movement, we’d at least have had some genuine persons of the Left within the PLP today, rather than a rabble intent on returning the Party back to its Centrist path, essentially the Conservative Party circa 2010.
Our nation requires a genuine Left-of-Centre alternative, which, given the lack of genuine Left-of-Centre representatives within Parliament is sorely missing – still, finally people are now looking at organising locally if they are to combat neoliberalism and a resurgent extremist Right – communities matter, and Labour needs to start engaging with communities again, rather than just acting as managers.
Christopher Rogers, as I’ve said before, Labour’s greatest mistake was in the run-up to the referendum by letting Farage’s and UKIP’s message of ‘EU bad’ bed in to the minds of many working people before Labour had properly got its act together.
When those in the NE and elsewhere were told that their plight was not because of the EU it was because of successive right wing governments, they simply dug their heels in. They are soon going to learn that by voting for Brexit they have voted against their own best interests, under no circumstances will it or a Tory governmemt benefit them or the UK in general.
The damage was further compounded by an overwhelming attack by the Zionist lobby on the character and judgement of Jeremy Corbyn – defame the man = defame his message.
The LexiTories have got their wish – Brexit. To be kind, perhaps they genuinely were naive enough not to realise that this Tory policy would always be achieved under a Tory government. It was part of a Tory package.
Jack T…..you’re definitely on the correct track of sniffing out the collaboration with a foreign country which is treason.Watch your back jack T they are still around inside the Labour party and collecting their forty pieces of silver..
The sad fact is Joseph, most commentators on this Blog are deemed enemies of the PLP, which means once a ‘New’ leaders in place, the same buggers who have had us in their gunsights since July 2015 – LabourFirst and the Israeli Brigade, will ensure anyone who posts under their real identity and is an actual amber of the Party will be hounded out of said Party – indeed, and I’ve seen the paperwork via Subject Access requests, that the Compliance Unit deem anyone who issued support to Christopher Williamson as an Antisemite and not a fit and proper person to engage in internal Labour politics – so, if you open your gob, or, rock the boat in any manner, if on the Left you are fair game for Expulsion – this being the legacy of scum like Luke Akehurst and his merry band of Haters – you can never appease these buggers, and that was JC’s biggest mistake.
Christopher Rogers.. You are correct and I think that members like me will be tossed out,but like I have said we’ve half a million educated members in the Labour party who are loyal and nobodys fools .We’ve been insulted by the Labour governance and dismissed by the NEC.Let them start a witch hunt and they just might find out what a Labour party of 20 thousand members and no union backing does for the chance of elected PLP members.They need a good dose of reality and realisation of who and what the socialist Labour party represents and its not the Mickey mouse moderates or the plotters…. Bring it on!
I remember the witch hunt against ‘Militant’ which Labour nabobs deemed too Left so hounded it out of the party. Neil Kinnock roared at Conference and delegates were virtually chased from the hall. It was a nasty grubby exercise. The trouble for the big-wigs is that this time the ‘militants’ form the backbone of the Party membership and Blair and his pals have to ponder the risk of splitting the party once and for all. They have no vision beyond curbing left wing ideas and therefore appeal to very few. They should resign en masse and see how much support they get.
I totally agree that the right wing of the party are responsible for the massive losses we suffered and it is not a coincidence that many of those who attacked Jeremy at every turn, who publicly stated they would not campaign for Labour despite standing as Labour candidates, who demanded a “peoples vote” etc etc lost their seats. They failed to recognise that people generally do not like sanctimonious, disloyal hypocrites.
In relation to them trying to oust Karie and Seumas, they are employees with contracts of employment and employment rights.Let them try!
But when isn’t there tension in a social democratic society between right and left? It would be sinister if that wasn’t the case! Social democracy as a whole is having a torrid time of it across Europe, whole movements collapsing. Labour was the exception – until the 12th.
Paul don’t you mean socialist.. We are a socialist party it says on the card.Social democracy is declining across the western world because of its attachment to capitalism.Now whether the British public lean towards social democracy thats another argument.But understand that the Labour party are a socialist party and registered with various Socialist institutions across Europe and beyond.and many of us are socialist and proud of that.
Gaslighting is all the rage. Jon Lansman indulged in it to make out that the Labour Left was always social-democratic not socialist.
https://www.thefullbrexit.com/post/inside-momentum-misrepresenting-history-perpetuating-neoliberalism
Didn’t the Labour Party cease to be officially ‘socialist’ when it voted to abandon Clause 4? Is it likely there will be an attempt to reinstate it at Conference? Would such an attempt succeed?
A media commentator today said Blair hinted there may be a split and a new party formed . Dreams were made of this .
It wasn’t just the Blairites. A LOT of Corbynistas (not all but a lot) peddled the ruinous “People’s Vote” scam for all it was worth.
Danny, it wasn’t a ‘scam’ it was an attempt to give people who had changed their mind in the previous three years a chance to express it. It’s called democracy but because of overwhelming pressure from the extreme right and some Lexiters such as yourself, it was derided and deemed undemocratic. In the short term, the screaming right have won and you helped them.
……..did you have your fingers crossed when you voted in 2016?
This could be a very useful forum. But only if we stop picking over the past, stop attacking each other, start communicating, and build a strategy for going forward.
Since we are accused of being a cult, let’s think like one. Before you post think, “if Jeremy read that, what would he think?”
Ceridig…Okay whats the answer to protecting the socialist revival?and how do we enforce democracy now.?
Heard a lot about how we must listen to our heartlands. Sadly much of what I hear worries me. The other day we had a taxi driver from Rotherham saying,admittedly through the filter of the BBC,”immigrants are everywhere,they are in our NHS,in our schools” then said if Labour got a “proper leader” he would go back to voting Labour. Then yesterday we had Yvette Cooper saying Labour had to be less internationalist and more patriotic. I think it likely that many younger voters will be put off voting Labour if we go back to adopting this kind of thinking.
It’s worth saying until it sinks in : they aren’t our ‘heartlands’. By definition. It’s another lazy MSM trope.
In reply to your comment where you slur the labour lexiteers with the Tories . That is not fair most are democratic socialists and expect their voices and vote to be heard. Labour choose remain and Mandelson’s peoples vote and effectively marginalised over 17 million people . It was a message which will have severe consequences for the country and the party but never the less it was a message which needed to be sent
Trope. Another new word from the MSM lexicon, but only applicable to anti-Semitism.
Jim spot on.. Next to come out of hiding Bomber Benn and the plotters. Now they are the real power behind the Mickey mouse moderates and we are waiting for the rush for power and a leadership election foisted upon us whilst we are still in shock.IT won’t work not with the members anymore,We are not mindless sheep and they just might feel the anger for the betrayal of Democracy now.?
Left wing democatic socialists shoud vote for a left wing democratic socialist leader, deputy and policy.
Also with unions get Labour to offer political and practical support to those who will be hammered by this most extreme Neo–Liberal Tory Govt ever.
The Tories as The Kings of Con will pretend to be one nation to the gullible.
We almost need to act like Syrizia but not sell out.
Solidarity!
This shows yet another reason why JC is correct to not copy Milliband and Brown by doing a Cameron and fleeing on defeat: Corbyn MUST stop the machivelian players frrom lining-up all the aspects of the CorbynProject that they dislike and conflating them all into ONE SINGLE target for their mock-hate filled ‘anger’.
Most members – wherever they sit on the broad-church continuum, and whatever their attitude to brexit and the confirmatory vote/2nd ref. question – know that the centrist and RW opponents of JC are ttrying to conflate
i – the corbyn project within Labour, and
ii – the left(er) policies of the manifesto, and
iii – the party’s need to honour the referendum decision with a desire to mitigate the Tories’ (really, Theresa May’s) wreckless and harmful Withdrawal Agreement.
YES, Murphy and Milne are proxies for 3 things – Corbyn, the corbynproject and the wonderful (but over-filled?) manifesto. As individuals we must remember this and defend our achievements against the regresssive forces that are motivating RW and centrist parts of our movement and party.
Quertboi correct!. But we need to democratize the Labour party before any election and stop the election Now.The only people I want to come out and declare are the treacherous vermin that wish to destroy the socialist Labour .so they can be isolated and removed ..I left the Labour party because of Blairites and I cannot tolerate the return. Jeremy Corbyn must Stay and use the power of his position and backing he has in the membership to stop this election now.Its his duty to a loyal membership.
Yes Joseph, we need to protect THREE things,
i – the VALUES of Coryn and therefore the possibility tha the next manifest we issue for a GE is radically transformative (which means it opposes austerity, challenges the market-centred non-politics of neoliberalism and breaks the neoliberal/centrist fear of fiscal measures to augment public or centralised spending;
ii – the democratisation of Labour and the party’s membership-led policy control (this is what I think of as the internal ‘CorbynProject’); and
iii – conmcerted determination to represent the working classes and ‘repolliticise’ them, thro i) expressed as strong policies.
BUT – I love that you are rejecting the very neceessity of the leadership change, it shows your commitment to Corbyn, but it’s not what we should bbe focussing on. We need to use this entire set-back to consolidate and build. JC’s integrity and Jeremy as a person need this.
Quertboi…. But if we have an election we will a almost certainly hand the socialist Labour party back to the neo liberal democrats.of the bomber Benn type or even the rat himself?The cards are stacked against us the same as Corbyn.The powers that be are not socialist and never will be so those most high are in direct conflict with the majority of the membership… and socialism fades away without a wimper.!
“The cards are stacked against us the same as Corbyn…”
It might feel like that Joseph, but it’s not true. Corbyn’s decision not to instantly resign is having his intended effect: Most members are staying true to his principles and seeing our dertractors’ exageration and hyperbolae for what it is: hopeless, vacuous desperation.
Laboiur is not as manipulatable as that,
I have just watched the most treacherous poison against corbyn and the Labour party on BBC Asia World news.But no it wasn’t the BBC interveiwer.kiddy Kinnock came on without any prompting and launched the worst attack on TV broadcast around the world at the Labour party leader Jeremy Corbyn.I have ever seen… The expats with me were astounded and many were in no way Labour or socialist.but wondered why we the membership put up with it.I have drafted a quick email to the Labour party and counter signed by non Labour party members shocked at the behaviour of that alleged Labour mp.Please bury HQ and governance in complaints against kiddy Kinnock.. Do we have to have that clown and his parasite family in the Labour party.?
He attacked Labour for promising too much.
I agree: The promise to replace Trident and spend 2% of national income on the military were two stupid ideas and should not have been promised.
Somehow, I do not think that he was referring to these though.
Gaslightied was exact word for the Corbyn loss. I feel so sad. Why those retainers over insisted and never explained enough for JC’s intention for Leave and Referendum. It is mystery for me.
Reading the majority of comments here makes me think that Einstein is behind this site, conducting an experiment about continuing to do the same thing. 🙂
One thing’s for sure – there ain’t much radical thinking going on!
……….& who does most of the posting?
Boris Johnson pledged to increase the national living wage to £10.50, but the Queen’s Speech guidance released this morning says this will only happen “provided economic conditions allow”
I am sick up to the back teeth of having to point out that Labour is DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PARTY not a Social Democratic Party two very,very different things the SDP were as the name suggests and look what happened to them , they were a bunch of right wing splitters…..shame they didn’t take a few more with them.
I’m glad you pointed out that overwhelmingly important terminological confusion. I’m sure it was at the root of our defeat. Tory voters would have flocked to a banner with ‘Not a social democratic party’ on it. 🙂
Paul Syson
This feels like 1979 and people forget without SDP and General Galtieri the fucking milk snatcher would have been out in 3 years
So are we really going to let the cheap and nasty red Tories take us down again,
How do we get rid of them, no one can argue Party discipline is non existent,
For the simple reason there is no Moral Hazard
Your a fucking anti semite and a racist
I’m sorry you feel that way
Pantomime Dame Hodge , why is she still in the party
“How do we get rid of them (?)”
Well – it certainly won’t be by virtue of the senile Tory-voting, Mail-Sun duggies in the so-called’Labour heartlands’, any more than salvation lies with the comfortable grousers in the south-east.
No simple answers – but it’s time to get real and shed illusions.