Comment
Peer Andrew Adonis is one of the arrogantly-titled “people’s vote” (PV) campaign’s main figureheads – and he entered the Christmas period by announcing:
4.5 million children are living in poverty, 130,000 of them are homeless, rough sleeping has doubled and huge numbers of vulnerable people are in debt and despair under the government’s disastrous Universal Credit system, so there might be other reasons and other things to stop, but apparently Brexit was the prevailing reason.
Adonis’ Christmas Twitter activity to ‘stop Brexit’ turned out to do more to encapsulate the mentality of the PV tribe, with one tweet in particular provoking bewildered outrage:
The hundreds of comments were overwhelmingly critical:
But Adonis was not limited to one tweet to let everyone know he was on holiday in Austria. As well as describing the alpine weather, he shared a number of photographs of the picturesque surroundings he was enjoying – because, apparently, they typify the benefits of EU membership:
Adonis also made sure nobody would forget what’s important this Christmas by posting a selfie of himself in a ‘Stop Brexit’ hoodie and retweeted a video of himself in the Lords criticising parliamentarians – for going on holiday when Brexit is approaching:
But a tweet about the ‘uneducated white working class’ being bigoted and ‘full of intolerance and prejudice’ was revealing. Adonis said it was ironic and told the SKWAWKBOX it was “a commentary on the person making the stupid comment” – and it certainly seemed to be on point, as one of his fellow stop-Brexit-ers was on it within three minutes of its posting:
There was no discernible irony, however, in Adonis’ comment a few days earlier about civil servants:
The comment was compared by its critics to the attitudes of the worst of the hard Brexiters – but again, it was the agreement of members of the stop-Brexit camp that were the most revealing.
The SKWAWKBOX contacted Mr Adonis for comment. He responded:
My speech in the Lords – as I clearly stated in the tweet – was about Parliament not returning until the 7th Jan and taking a 19 day holiday – not against having a Christmas break at all! My proposal, which the government rejected, was to return on 2nd January so parliament could debate Mrs May’s deal & a people’s vote at the beginning of January rather than mid January, accelerating her timetable by two weeks. I never suggested Parliament sit over Christmas itself.
I constantly campaign on social justice and inequality – and indeed have written a book with Will Hutton on the theme this year, ‘Saving Britain.’ But most people also take family holidays and get a break over Christmas, and I am no exception.
The cartoon is clearly ironic and a commentary on the person making the stupid comment. It is in an excellent new collection of Brexit cartoons, published by Penguin, which I recommend to all anti-Brexit campaigners as a Christmas present. I tweeted a dozen others too and it would be good if you could reproduce some of others too – your readers will like them.
Andrew Adonis
Of course, many people don’t take Austrian skiing holidays – and politicians who do would hopefully have the sensitivity not to tweet them on a day any family who wants to should be enjoying a warm, safe Christmas together and many were facing anything but.
If anyone wishes to read the other cartoons Adonis tweeted, they are in his Twitter feed.
Credit to him for responding to the enquiry – but in spite of his clarifications, it’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that life and issues on ‘Planet PV’ bear little resemblance to those of the millions of people suffering under the Tories and whose most urgent concern is removing them as far from government as humanly possible.
Jeremy Corbyn, meanwhile, kicked off Christmas by making an unannounced visit to a north London centre for homeless people to find out more about the issues they face and how best to help them.
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There is nothing ‘arrogant’ about advocating a people’s vote.
“There is nothing ‘arrogant’ about advocating a people’s vote.”
Precisely. Getting all excited about Adonis is beside the point. We could get more justifiably excited about the extreme right knob-heads who advocate Brexit. There are more important issues to address. It’s the evidence and argument that count.
… particularly the uncomfortable fact that, in every measurable dimension, the Labour Party is a ‘Remain’ party, and that the current non-policy is alienating the clear majority of members.
If you doubt it – have a look at the BES – a survey that will underestimate the current support for ‘Remain’.
Simply screaming reality denial won’t alter that evidence.
There’s already been a people’s vote and it is the height of arrogance not to respect the referendum result. That’s Labour Party policy and Labour Manifesto policy.
The arrogantly-titled people’s vote is an overwhelmingly Blairite project and Adonis et al want to overturn the referendum result so that they can safeguard their beloved neoliberal globalisation and get rid of Corbyn.
“There’s already been a people’s vote”
… and in a democracy, there’s usually one at regular intervals. Wow! Now there’s a revolutionary idea!
“arrogantly-titled people’s vote ”
Chanting meaningless mantras isn’t a mark of progressive politics. More a foot-stamping exercise.
“overwhelmingly Blairite project”
Dream on. It’s more comfortable than reality, and a recognition of the wider majority support within the Labour Party of ‘Remain’ and the corresponding lack of support for Lexit fantasies.
On the subject of reality denial, unless and until the DUP vote to bring down the Government, Corbyn has zero power to control the agenda. What he does or does not say about a People’s Vote is about as much use as what he says he would do with a unicorn if one was found.
““There’s already been a people’s vote”
… and in a democracy, there’s usually one at regular intervals.”
But never before the result of the first one has been implemented, very obviously, otherwise you’d simply be having a vote until you got the result you wanted, which is exactly what you’re calling for.
“current non policy”
Seriously?
Well it’s clear to a blind man on a galloping horse that when one makes the miniscule cognitive effort to apply the criteria (because that’s what you do with criteria) contained in the six tests to the limited number of available options on the spectrum from Hard No Deal Brexit through to Remain only remain passes the criteria.
The policy adopted at Conference, which was the result of a six hour composite meeting which concluded around midnight on the Sunday, is equally clear.
One is left with the conclusion that some people are either being bone idle by just not really making any effort whatsover; or they are going the extra, extra mile to be deliberately obtuse because they really, really don’t want to see what’s crystal clear in front of them.
There’s plenty arrogant about calling it one, with its implication that the first one wasn’t
Quite appropriate that his Lordship went to “Austria European Union…It’s the home of nationalist neoliberalism.
“Let them eat fondue.” (I hope the snow conditions don’t ruin your hols too much but its bot if you have to sleep outside).
I remember the late Philip Gould (Blair’s focus group man) saying how wonderful NHS nurses were, and how some them were only paid 30k/y.
It must be great to be so certain, so unempathetic and so unsuspecting of one’s ignorance.
120,000 kids this Xmas without a place they can call their home and wow Adnois is fretting over too much snow to ski ,where is the twat ,in Austria , with his trotters up !!
Life’s a real bitch eh . In touch with the working class ,,,
Just because Adonis is an arrogant wealthy creep should not be an argument for leaving the EU. What do you want to do? Align yourself with Tommy Robinson and Farage? Leaving the EU will seriously damage the lives of over 5 million people living in the UK and EU and make us all poorer – it is a waste of space! Don’t do it!
Seems like there’s some regular PV trolls popping up here on what used to be a civilised place to exchange ideas rather than prejudices and regurgitations of Alistair “Goebbels” Campbell’s dodgy dossier. Like Campbell, Adonis is a first order jerk, never elected to anything, whose entire existence is thanks to Blairite patronage. I came across an excellent solution for the PV trolls, Adonis, Campbell, Blair and their Guardian/Observer journalist friends (like Harding, Cadwalladr, Freedland, Toynbee, Cohen, Nougayrede etc.) if you really want to make a difference: do what Abderrazk Zorgui did in Tunisia on Monday and set yourselves on fire. It would make a lot of poor, downtrodden people very happy – and there’d be no danger of any of us pissing on you in the process.
There’s politics.
… and then there’s indulgent self-abuse that goes nowhere.
It must be perturbing when you find that your echo chamber is getting weaker and weaker as it shrinks smaller and smaller. A recent academic study found that 75%+ of Labour Party Members support a second referendum
If you really wish to foster an atmosphere where different ideas and opinions can be exchanged freely I would suggest that you lashing out at all and sundry who’s only crime is that they disagree with you is more than a little counter-productive.
You would justifiably be outraged if I attempted to associate you with the policies of the ERG or Putin just because they also happen to oppose another referendum. So I find it difficult to understand why you feel justified in classifying everyone as a Blairite who thinks that in the absence of a GE that a second vote is a reasonable alternative to doing bugger all and just letting the Tories just get on with doing what Tories do.
This comment was intended as a reply to –
labrebisgalloise 26/12/2018 at 8:59 pm
Your reliance on surveys and polls is quite illuminating. 68% of members think antisemitism is a problem in the party, while 77% think it’s being hyped up. You can get any answer you want from polls and surveys, that’s why “Best for Britain” (an oxymoron) is showering money on them….and that avalanche of cash should tell you something about the partly foreign funded remain campaign. Given it won’t, I think it’s highly appropriate to call you a Blairite….you can’t be a Socialist!
lundiel 27/12/2018 at 9:16 am
The reason I can rely on political polls and academic research is because they are so consistent. It’s not my fault that Brexit can’t find a single pole to support their ridiculous assertions. I would be more than happy for the Labour Party to take a poll of all its members, would you?
lundiel 27/12/2018 at 9:16 am
Do you have a link to poll you have quoted from?
“The poll found that 51% believes Labour has a problem with antisemitism to some degree.”
From the Observer, published on 8 April 2018.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/08/labour-antisemitism-opinion-poll
“Nearly eight out of ten Labour members believe that accusations of antisemitism are being exaggerated to damage Jeremy Corbyn and stifle legitimate criticism of Israel, according to a YouGov poll for The Times.”
From the Times, March 31, 2018.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2018-03-31/news/labour-poll-says-antisemitism-row-is-exaggerated-8tdj7wffh
Two separate polls within roughly a week of each other. It isn’t exactly what lundiel referred to, but it makes the same point.
Now I’ve just done this for you. It only took me a few minutes, and you’re welcome, but why can’t you do your own research, instead of asking other people to do it for you? It really isn’t difficult. You’re sitting in front of a computer. Try using it.
@SteveH
“The poll found that 51% believes Labour has a problem with antisemitism to some degree.”
From the Observer, published on 8 April 2018.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/08/labour-antisemitism-opinion-poll
“Nearly eight out of ten Labour members believe that accusations of antisemitism are being exaggerated to damage Jeremy Corbyn and stifle legitimate criticism of Israel, according to a YouGov poll for The Times.”
From the Times, March 31, 2018.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2018-03-31/news/labour-poll-says-antisemitism-row-is-exaggerated-8tdj7wffh
Two separate polls within roughly a week of each other. It isn’t exactly what lundiel referred to, but it makes the same point.
Now I’ve just done this for you. It only took me a few minutes, and you’re welcome, but why can’t you do your own research, instead of asking other people to do it for you? It really isn’t difficult. You’re sitting in front of a computer. Try using it.
Forthestate 27/12/2018 at 12:02 pm
Well ‘thanks’ for all your hard work but I’m a little confused as to how a set of apparently random poll results on AS has helped move the conversation forward. Also I don’t recall asking anyone to do any research on my behalf.
“The poll found that 51% believes Labour has a problem with antisemitism to some degree.”
From the Observer, published on 8 April 2018.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/08/labour-antisemitism-opinion-poll
“Nearly eight out of ten Labour members believe that accusations of antisemitism are being exaggerated to damage Jeremy Corbyn and stifle legitimate criticism of Israel, according to a YouGov poll for The Times.”
From the Times, March 31, 2018.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2018-03-31/news/labour-poll-says-antisemitism-row-is-exaggerated-8tdj7wffh
Two separate polls within roughly a week of each other. It isn’t exactly what lundiel referred to, but it makes the same point.
Certainly, through I can’t be bothered to find it….type “labour members polls” and knock yourself out. A poll of party members is meaningless, it’s the voters that count.
“Certainly, through I can’t be bothered to find it….type “labour members polls” and knock yourself out.
I tried that and all I got was a list of polls confirming that Labour party members are in favour of a second poll and remaining in the EU. The way these things usually work, as you well know, is that the person quoting figures is the one that supplies the link. Even if I’m charitable on this occasion and presume that the figures actually genuine and came from the same poll I don’t see any conflict between the two figures you post.
I can’t for the life of me see why it is not possible or even likely that 68% of members think antisemitism is a problem in the party, whilst at the same time 77% think it’s being hyped up. One can recognise that their is small problem with AS and at the same time think the problem is being exaggerated. So your argument as you have put it yourself simply does not stand up. It should tell you something that you had to resort to a poll on AS to find what you claim are anomalies. Surely as this is a discussion about Brexit it would have been logical to quote anomalies that relate to Brexit.
“A poll of party members is meaningless, it’s the voters that count.”
Whilst I agree that it’s the votes in a second referendum that will count you were the one making the claim that the polls and academic studies about Brexit and LP members were inaccurate, I was simply suggesting that a poll of Labour members by the Labour party would settle that matter.
“Your reliance on surveys and polls is quite illuminating.”
Certainly more illuminating than the hot air spent on wishes as substantial as hot air and letters to Santa.
The hard fact is that the evidence is consistent – even immediately after the election, the British Election Survey (somewhat more reliable than assertions by the Mail; etc) showed that there was *no* dimension of analysis where ‘Leave’ was the preference of Labour voters.
Eighteen months on, and the evidence is that this preference is even stronger. Clearly, people didn’t vote Labour because of the the manifesto commitment to ‘honoring the result of the referendumb’. (Which actually would have meant honoring the fact of the indecisive minority vote in favour of Brexit).
Time to get into line with the membership, and look like an election winning Party.. The ‘subtle strategy’ is looking a bit tattered in terms of the wider electorate.
Please, please, please. Cameron’s Folly has split the major parties pretty much down the middle. With a General Election imminent no party leader can declare a positive stance on brexit without alienating half their party. A people’s vote – or a parliamentary vote – not on how, but on whether we leave the EU is a wise option. And unquestionably democratic..
When will we learn, voting will change nothing, because if it could it would be made illegal or ignored? We will not be leaving the EU, maybe in name only, but we will not be allowed to leave the Hotel California. You may think you live in a representative democracy, but the result of the once in a generation Referendum will be ignored & replaced by another. only this time PSB anti Brexit saturation will guarantee the preferred result whatever the consequences.
Re that Hotel California jibe: it is not that we can’t leave. We can – or at least, we could have done so if the Leave camp had actually worked on the measures needed in order to do so.
It is simply that doing so, however we organise it, will DEFINITELY leave us in a much worse position, politically, economically, socially, than not doing so.
You might just as well complain that it is terrible that people won’t let you jump off a cliff. If you really want to, you can. But you will die.
Adonis’ tweet encapsulates the unthinking disregard that Blairites have for their constituency, which is the least privileged amongst us, the clue lying in the title: ‘Labour’. I was so angry about this I fired off an email to the man which, on reflection, could have been a bit more respectful, but wtf:
“Andrew,
I’m writing to ask a simple question: are you aware that the the thrust of the Brexit vote came from people whose standard of living has been so eroded over the last forty years that significant numbers of them now attend food banks because they can’t afford to feed themselves? If you’re not, I suggest you start to earn the privileged position that you hold as a ‘representative’ of the British people and go and look it up. But giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you are indeed somewhat informed about the people you purport to represent, what induced you to tweet your recommendations for a second referendum from a skiing resort in Austria? And not for the first time. Forgive me, but are you as much of a blithering idiot as you seem determined to present yourself? What exactly gave you the notion that a rich man’s holiday was the ideal context from which to address an issue that concerns, primarily, some of the poorest people in your country? As with Macron, who chose to address the Gilets Jaunes from the most gilded room in one of the most gilded palaces in Europe, some of us have to wonder how long it will be before a large section of society is moved to confront people like you with the consequences of your disdain for it.
Staggered by your insensitivity and downright stupidity,
signed.”
The fact that people purporting to be on the left have no idea why a wealthy man lecturing the lower orders on their inability to decide what is best for them from the ski slopes of Austria destroys any credibility in his left wing credentials merely serves to highlight just how little these people give a fuck about those for whom they professed a concern right up until the referendum result seemed to threaten their own welfare for the first time.
I have no problem with anyone wanting to remain in the EU and putting that case forward in an balance way, I’d vote remain again. Not going to use the remain issue under any circumstances to undermine Jeremy Corbyn to oust him or the Labour Party and it’s chances of winning a GE. For me anyone who thinks the majority of this PV and FBPE crowd aren’t anything but Blairite, Centrist, LiB/DEM SNP front with an agenda are delusional.
“Not going to use the remain issue under any circumstances to undermine Jeremy Corbyn to oust him or the Labour Party and it’s chances of winning a GE.”
The hard electoral facts are (a) that current policy is handing the right a weapon with which to beat Corbyn – because the policy just doesn’t stack up – it’s Tory unconvincing cakeism with a bit of red tinsel.
and
(b) The chances of winning a general election – should there be one – are ‘decreased’ by shadowing the Tory Brexit and alienating the majority of Labour voters.
I had no problem in opposing the Blair nonsense about privatisation etc.(and was right about it ultimately cutting off the legs of the Party), so I have no problem with pointing out this particular folly of the current leadership. I’m not into personality cults, much as I like Corbyn.
“The hard electoral facts are (a) that current policy is handing the right a weapon with which to beat Corbyn – because the policy just doesn’t stack up – it’s Tory unconvincing cakeism with a bit of red tinsel.”
That would the very same policy we fought the last election on — How has it changed. What in the Labour Manifesto is different?
“(b) The chances of winning a general election – should there be one – are ‘decreased’ by shadowing the Tory Brexit and alienating the majority of Labour voters.
I had no problem in opposing the Blair nonsense about privatisation etc.(and was right about it ultimately cutting off the legs of the Party), so I have no problem with pointing out this particular folly of the current leadership. I’m not into personality cults, much as I like Corbyn.”
Not understanding this what planet have you been living on? Labour wants to renegotiate with the EU, they say it’s achievable. It’s backed-up by the EU saying they would welcome that. Labour want a Customs Union, and all the rights that go with that. How is shadowing the Tory Brexit, May’s cluster fuck, threats of a no deal and alienating the majority of Labour voters? Every Labour voter worth their salt should be denouncing it not taking cheap shots at Corbyn.
“what planet have you been living on?”
This one – that occupied by most Labour voters; as opposed to Fuller’s Earth – the one occupied by Brexiteers.
“Labour want a Customs Union, and all the rights that go with that.”
We already have that. It’s known as “EU membership with negotiated benefits” – which has, in fact, more advantages than than a Tory cakeism+. Doh!
As said ‘Majority of Labour voters’ = ‘Remain’. It’s not difficult to work out what this means – that Brexit is consistently a Tory scam, and is seen as such.
If May’s deal is a ‘clusterfuck’ so then is May + more cake.
If there’s any ‘trolling’ here, it would seem to be Kippers pretending to socialism!
“This one – that occupied by most Labour voters; as opposed to Fuller’s Earth – the one occupied by Brexiteers.”
Nearly 13 million voted for Corbyn and his policies in the last election. Answer the question and stop backtracking, what policies have changed? Why are you putting so much emphasis on Brexit? You’re clearly revealing yourself.
“We already have that. It’s known as “EU membership with negotiated benefits” – which has, in fact, more advantages than than a Tory cakeism+. Doh!”
Are you for real? We are leaving the EU it will never be the same!
It’s now about how we leave and what’s best for our people.
Again, answer the question
How’s is May Brexit and her no deal the same as Labours?
Kipper am I? What more evidence does anyone need!
“Answer the question and stop backtracking, what policies have changed?”
I’ve answered the question – the answer being that – clearly – the Labour vote was *despite* the Brexit non-policy. Not because of it. It’s really not rocket science – the major part of the Labour vote came from people who don’t want the Tories *or* their Brexit policy.
They were giving Labour a chance to get real as opposed to tactical.
This idea of a manifesto as tablets of stone from above is nonsense – and we are now way down the line from the election. They are for the MSM – then.
“How’s is May Brexit and her no deal the same as Labours?”
Both stick on the rock of being worse than staying in the EU – and dancing to the tune of the extreme right.
Forget Lexit dreams – the EU competition rules will (a) not be altered by Little England floating in mid-Atlantic, dependent on the EU, the USA, China and the WTO (plus Uncle Tom Cobley) – but with no say and (b) can be managed in order to ameliorate the damage done by self-imposed policies. Not perfect – but rational.