Analysis Breaking

Desperate apologists claim Starmer ‘treat families as terrorists’ video ‘edited by AI’

Video is misleading, say Pavlovian defenders of hard-right ‘Labour’ leader – does someone need to have a word with Sky News about them putting out fake videos, then…?

Those who want to defend Keir Starmer despite his anti-child, anti-poor, anti-free speech politics have plumbed new depths in their desperation to explain away his own comments betraying his real nature.

After Starmer said on live TV that he wants to treat the families of refugee children arriving in the UK by boat as terrorists, Starmer’s apologists have claimed that the video was edited misleadingly, or even altered by AI (artificial intelligence) and that he was only ever talking about criminal people-smuggling gangs.

Well, here’s Sky News’s own YouTube feed of the interview in question, set to start at the relevant point:

If that’s not Keir Starmer saying, in response to a very clear question, that he wants to treat refugee children’s relatives in the UK as terrorists, someone better have a word with them about their editorial standards, putting out ‘AI-edited interviews’…

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    1. Note the bolding, and the CAPITALS from the resident….

      As the OP says: “Desperate apologists…”

      Unless and until it’s proven beyond doubt that the video excerpt has been tampered with them AFAIC it’s as legit as it was when it went out live

      1. Toffee – I’m not the one claiming that others are claiming it has been amended in some way or other. I’ve simply directed others to a video clip that I believe to be complete and unedited.

      2. In any case, given there are two cameras involved and a spit-screen effect, there can be no such thing as an unedited version of this interview. So it is hardly worth someone making that claim. The best you could say is pretty much ‘as broadcast’. And that is clearly what Skwawkbox is going for here.

      3. Bernie – Perhaps it would have been prudent of you to have watched the video that I linked to before commenting on it. It doesn’t use a split screen.

      4. It doesn’t matter whether you are using split screen or not. If you are cutting between camaras you are editing. Editing involves choices – who you are going to show, how loud or not the sound level for each contributor is going to be, also do you show the actual person speaking or just a voiceover soundlink?
        Editing is an actual job title both in fictional and documentary productions.
        Even before you get to editing there are decisons like camara positions – who’s allowed to be closest and more intimate with camara? Another choice would be is a direct address technique to be used – this amplifies personal authority of the speaker.
        The idea of a simple window on the world is dead along with the Dodo.
        Given Skwawkbox has not faked anything, what he has presented can be regarded at least as equally legitmate journalism.

      5. Btw at approximately the 3min.35sec of the Sky News site version the coverage switches to split-screen in the same manner that Skwawkbox has represented above.
        The levels of desperate lying trolling that slips past moderation on this site beggar’s belief.
        J*sus wept!

      6. Bernie – Oh for goodness sake get a grip, have you listened to yourself.

      7. As mentioned before, it is not just a lying troll here, but a desperate lying troll!
        That is why it is not worth even replying to it or acknowledging its existence.

      8. Interesting that you have not refuted the charge of being a desperate lying troll steveH.

        That response is as good as guilty plea.

      9. Dave – Interesting to who?

        “That response is as good as [a] guilty plea.”

        Don’t be silly
        I am under no obligation to dignify every infantile personal insult or accusation with a response.

    2. Are you claiming, steveH, that Starmer in this interview did not agree that the families would be treated as terrorists?

      IF that is the argument you are putting I suggest you listen again:

      At around 4 minutes 59 seconds Trevor Phillips begins a question based on “another possibility” in which someone “who knows” an act [defined] as “people smuggling” is subject to “Section 38B” “requires that they report that to the police or face five years in goal” (5 minutes 8 seconds to 5 minutes 17 seconds).

      Phillip’s continues – from 5 minutes 18 seconds – with, quote. “which would apply if you what you say is what you mean to, for example, the families of children who come across on those boats, who know they are going to arrive on those boats DO YOU ACTUALLY MEAN TO TREAT THEM AS TERRORISTS OR NOT?” , unquote (that specific segment with the question I have put in block capitals here concludes at 5 minutes 30 seconds.

      The immediate response from the [current] Leader of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition is as follows (commencing at 5 minutes 33 seconds after licking his lips):

      “Well, what I’ve said Trevor is that WE NEED TO PUT THEM IN THE BRACKET OF TERRORISTS, that’s what what happens, that’s why I want it to be used to smash those operations (segment ends at 5 minutes 40 seconds)

      Now that’s clear enough for any sentient being to understand.

      Phillips has asked a straight question. Specifically laying out that he is talking about the families of people coming across on the boats AND NOT THE PEOPLE SMUGGLERS and concluding with the question “do you actually mean to treat them (IE THE FAMILIES) as terrorists or not?”

      And the unequivocal response clearly indicates a firm yes answer to that question that “we need to put them (IE THE FAMILIES THAT PHILLIPS HAS CLEARLY IDENTIFIED) in the bracket of terrorists” as a means towards smashing the operations of people smugglers.

      IF you are questioning the claim made in this and the other latest Skawkbox piece in regards this matter the stark evidence does not support such a position.

      1. I’m asking a simple question steveH as a result of your “Did he really” comment on the previous thread which clearly implies you disagree this was the case.

        Listening to the relevant part of the interview and transcribing it can hardly be described in terms of putting much in the way of effort in. But then I suppose it might seem that way to those who are all mouth and no trousers and who spend their time going off half-cocked and mouthing off with nothing to back their bluster up.

        So I’ll put the question again: Are you saying, against the substantive evidence presented, that the claim being made by Skwawkbox on this point is not the case steveH? Or is that too hard for youse?

      2. Dave – I thought that I had made my position clear above, “I’m quite happy for people to just listen to the whole of this interview and make their own minds up.”
        What are you afraid of?

      3. Whats worse is cube nuts is giving people the idea that the organisers are within easy reach of our protect and servers, give the boat people a bit of a tickle, use the info and reach out and grab the baddies -something which he is good at. Yeah,sometimes he gives the baddies jobbies.

      4. But that is not true is it steveH because the record on the previous thread clearly shows you are casting doubt on the claim with the words “Did he really.”

        The recognised definition of what you are now saying is known as a lie.

        And you know what? People have already made up their minds as to what you are on this and every other issue.

      5. Dave – Couldn’t you find something more sensible to get outraged about? 😞
        How does encouraging others to listen to the full interview instead of relying on a very short 44 second clip and then make their own minds up in any way conflict with my stance.🤔

      6. Oh do stop whining and take it on the chin steveH. Just to make it simple for you:

        What you are claiming – that you are simply providing a link for people to make their minds up on on a specific matter is an outright lie on your part.

        Firstly it is a lie because you have very clearly on the previous thread openly cast doubt on the claim made in the specific Skwawkbox headline and story text as to what Starmer has said in regard treating the families of refugees as terrorists.

        The words are the words steveH. And the words were “Did he really”. That is not leaving it up to people to make up their own minds it is attempting to lead them to a different conclusion to suit a narrative you are desperately trying to push.

        Secondly, it is lie because the only section of the interview relevant to that specific matter is the roughly 45 seconds between 5 minutes and 5 minutes 45 seconds of the link you originally posted. No other section of the interview is relevant to that specific charge in regards what was and was not said on that particular matter – ie families of refugees should be treated as terrorists.

        Muddying the waters by implying that other parts of the interview included further clarification on that specific matter when they clearly do not is therefore misleading on your part. And deliberately so.

        To date no one on this site has jumped to your defence on this. As with every other utterance you make all you have drawn is criticism. People, including myself, have listened to the link you provided and have very clearly made their minds up that you are engaged in what Churchill once referred to in Parliament as a “terminological in-exactitude’.

        This mardy arsed “what me guv” act is neither fooling nor impressing anyone. In fact it is merely reinforcing the general consensus that everything you post is a narrative with no congruence with or to reality.

        That’s your problem, which you have caused. Deal with it.

    3. Herr Flick
      On a point of order
      You keep referring to the Fuhrer as Keir
      When a blind man with a shitty stick can see Red Tories like him are in the wrong party, They are cheap and nasty far right torags

      1. ….and yet the vast majority of both Labour’s membership and voters support Keir and given that all you’ve got to offer is vacuous rhetoric who can blame them.

    4. Dave – Interesting to who?

      “That response is as good as guilty plea.”

      Don’t be silly,
      There is no obligation on myself to dignify personal insults and accusations that I know are complete nonsense with a response.
      Isn’t it more concerning that Bernie hasn’t been able to present any credible evidence to support his assertions. Just because you or anyone else doesn’t like what I say it doesn’t make it a lie.

      1. Bernie does not need to provide any further evidence for his claim as the evidence has already been provided.

        Not one person on this site believes you. If you wish to live in a fantasy bubble where everyone in the world is wrong and you are always right I suggest you check into Bellevue and leave discussion of the real world to the grown ups.

      2. Dave – I’m struggling to find a reason why you would think that I care one way or t’other what you think. 😕

  1. Selective or AI editing aside, it is dispiriting that a party, so lavishly funded, so free of meaningful work to occupy themselves with over the past few years, has no better response to the issue of migration than this. At best it is threading a path least likely to upset an imagined constituency of swing voters but in reality it resolves nothing and is a steaming vent of platitudinous verbiage indistinguishable from that which generated the problem in the first place.

      1. Wanna know what mine is?

        I’ll tell you anyway. It’s that more qunts like you should be encouraged to sod off.

      2. There’s an obvious answer to that. More legal routes.

        Even, the couple of legal routes we do have been shamefully inadequate. Less than one hundred Afghans, in two years, after what we did to their country, and the women and children abused and starved by their own people.

        When the few that do get here are housed in hotels for a few months, then told they have to move to make room for more refugees arriving – that is shameful.

        There has been nothing to be proud of in our treatment of asylum seekers and refugees for – at least – ten years.

        Shameful doesn’t cover it!

      3. As much to indicate that a numbskull like myself with ten minutes to coalesce some starting points is the match of a national organisation with years of hanging around and considerable resources of cash and personnel I’d offer up the following (but with any more time I’d be across the data for previous responses and those implemented elsewhere as well as au fait with modelling and projections – you know the kind of basic research that would be well within the grasp of a large organisation just hanging around waiting for their turn in power):
        1. Rejoin a European body that takes a collective approach to migration – standardising and optimising application, processing and resettlement
        2. Develop a clear channel for applying for asylum with targets for humane treatment, prompt processing and determination of outcome. At the point where this is capable of operating at scale, initiate a return to point of departure policy for hazardous routes (initially sea crossings)
        3. Acknowledge that additional numbers, job vacancies and supporting infrastructure need to be joined up
        4. Acknowledge that we actively pull migrants toward the UK by cutting foreign aid, stoking foreign wars and reneging on climate mitigation funding

      4. “What would your response be to ‘the issue of migration’?”

        The question on this specific type of migration has been answered on a number of occasions on this forum.

        Its not a difficult one. Anyone serious about the issue would tackle the matter at source by cutting off the demand.

        And the way to do that is to stop bombing the shit out of other countries whilst at the same time exploiting them for their resources to the extent that they are not able to develop.

        Why you no listen!

      5. Herr Flick
        Migration is nothing new, weaponising it is nothing new, economic migrants are nothing new, industry wide requirements are nothing new, public service requirements
        are nothing new, quid pro quo in any Trade agreements are nothng new, birth rates and declining life expectancy is something new
        What’s your plan

    1. George – I agree with you on safe legal routes and as I understand it this is also part of the Labour Party’s policy platform.

      1. Herr Flick
        Name someone you know who is not a descendent of a migrant
        Start with the Fuhrer and the War Criminal, the bastard offspring of Thatcher who we all know was of Barbarian ancestry

      2. Doug – “Name someone you know who is not a descendent of a migrant”

        Why, given that the answer to that is self evident what possible purpose would that serve?

    2. Fair points Tim White.
      But vermin troll’s that try to infiltrate this site also smear refugees as mere opportunist ‘migrants’.
      The troll position is to simultaneously deliberately fail to acknowledge that these refugees are turning up on these shores as a direct result of the racist-imperialism initially thrown into high gear by Blair, Brown’s New Labour in Iraq and Afghanistan. And this was subsequently continued by other wannabe US globalists in Libya and proxy wars in Syria.

      1. Bernie, my intention was not be reductive in just referring to migrants as a collective, without reference to the differing circumstances that result in their arrival here. My final point engages with the provocation of war as one of several pull factors, others being reneging on funding for climate mitigation in poorer countries and cutting of foreign aid (though there are others, including the extraction of wealth and human resource)

      2. @Bernie

        French started Libya. The rest followed very shortly afterward

      3. Tim White
        The person using the ‘migrant’ tag I was referring to was not you but a certain Blairite troll I refuse to mention by name or engage with. For example, even here they are so manipulative they have now got posters talking about the edit of the news clip instead of Starmer’s racism.
        In reply to ‘Never voting labour again’ it is also worth mentioning that Libya was the richest country in Africa and also the cork in the bottle of any potential refugee crisis. But once Obama and Cameron had unleashed Hilary Clinton’s imperialist violence on the country it degenerated to a trafficking route and having slave markets for sub-Saharan Africans.

      4. Bernie – For the record I have only referred to migration or migrants twice on this page and on each of these 2 occasions (one each) it was a direct quote from either Tim (the first one to use this terminology here apart from Skwawkbox) or Doug. Please feel free to carry on ➡️🚴🏽as fast as you can. Hopefully Tim will find it in his heart to forgive you.

      5. Toffee – Unfortunately I don’t have the time or the inclination to indulge you at the moment.
        I’m sorry that you feeling so lonely and bored today, but never mind it will soon be your bedtime. 😔

      6. @Bernie

        I was aware of this, as well as Gaddafi’s rather good policies including free education and free farms to anyone who wanted to be a farmer.

        Slightly off topic, I saw a video the other day where he reaches out from the grave, explaining exactly what is happening no globally.

        I suspect the cork release was a deliberate intention

  2. Watched the whole thing.
    Though I have many criticisms of Blair, I have to say that during the first 8-ish years of his leadership of the LP he had the skills to sound really convincing when being interviewed. Starmer just hasn’t got it. It is always clear that he is b***s****ing.

    1. Well the EMS did help a lot of our kids and kept them on the straight for a while. Should have been carved in stone and plonked in the HOP.

  3. Are you saying that Bliar was a more-skilled liar than Starver ???
    or Not ???

    1. Johnsco1, good question. Miranda oozed confidence, charm and assuredness. Kidstarver just oozes.

  4. The Trevor Phillips interview suggests to me that Keir Starmer operates entirely in the domain of Narrative. The real world is alien to it (and him?).

    Those politicians who only operate in the world of Narrative are either, (i) showing themselves to have no meaningful grasp of the real world, or, (ii), understand the real-world well, but are using Narrative as a control- or propaganda-technique to misinform and manipulate others.

    Sadly, it is obvious to me in which category Keir Rodney Starmer belongs.

    1. qwertboi – What on earth is the “world of Narrative”, can you define it for us?

      1. For the attention of qwertboi and SteveH –
        “Political narrative is a term used in the humanities and political sciences to describe the way in which storytelling can shape fact and impact on understandings of reality.”
        I hope that this helps.

      2. goldbach – Unfortunately qwertboi didn’t refer to ‘political narrative’ (which most would have little problem in understanding) but instead referred to a rather nebulous ‘domain of Narrative‘ and ‘the world of Narrative’. Hence the request for a definition.

      3. qwertboi – What on earth is the “world of Narrative”, can you define it for us?

        ‘Narrative’ is a representation of a particular situation in a specific way to conform to (or enable) a particular objective or purpose. For example, the alleged-covid pandemic needed a carefully-constructed and meticulously executed Narrative (and bogus testing, lockdowns, mass hysteria, economic vulnerability, etc.) to facilitate a ‘pandemic’ and also to convince people that it was a widespread occurrence of a killer disease in a year which experienced hardly any ‘excess death’.

        ‘The Great Narrative’ is also a book written by Lord, Professor, Sir Kurt Schwab, founder and Executive Chairman of the World Economic Forum, to explain how the Covid Narrative (and non-existent epidemic) facilitates (that word is threatening in this context) economic, social and political change to affect a Great Reset. where you, me and the rest of the 99.99% will own nothing and be happy. Look it up (even on WEF forums/sites), it’s terrifying.

      4. qwertboi – Oh dear, yet more Covid-19 denier bollocks. You’re a f’ing joke.

      5. The specific example provided by qwertboi re. Covid – and via a third source (perhaps you missed the quotation marks steveH?) – may or may not be to your liking.

        However, the example does not negate the general point being made in regards to the way preferred elite/oligarch narratives rather than substantive reality are used to dominate discourse and impose specific world views onto society as only viable option – TINA – which favours the interests of those Oligarchs and their cheerleader toady’s.

        It is hardly surprising that you choose to ignore the main point, steveH, and go off at a tangent. qwuertboi is clearly getting a little too close to home with this line of argument given your very obvious role as a shill for such Official Narratives.

      1. Easy mistake to make. Schwab advances on the unwilling thrusting his pelvis for and after, Kurt Russell does the same in some gringo film about dancing or special forces shit. Both are vile and deeply entrenched in dystopia gringo affectation.

    2. The same Blairite trolls that claim that the term ‘narrative’ is beyond ordinary comprehenshion never complain when it is used in the same way by Alistair Campbell.
      And how many people of colour are dead due to Campbell’s ‘dodgy dossier’ propaganda?

      1. Judging by the response you received Bernie it seems in this particular case that “the truth shall make you sick.”

  5. When they choose to frame the issue as one of “migrants” instead of one of refugees, that’s when they start to play a dangerous game. “We” are framed as the victims of “migration”, whereas we should be considering refugees as the victims of climate change and, principally, of conflict.

    1. What manner of man could post a picture of yawning face as a response to acomment about massive innocent slaughter? What politics lie beneath such a face. Fascism.

  6. When they won’t let people work while they wait, when 80% are successful in their applications, then you know its all about appealing to your base, Hate Mail bottom feeders
    Or as Red Tories describe them, the Patriotic centre

  7. goldbach – Unfortunately qwertboi didn’t refer to ‘political narrative’ (which most would have little problem in understanding) but instead referred to a rather nebulous ‘domain of Narrative‘ and ‘the world of Narrative’. Hence the request for a definition.

    “unfortunately”?? What’s unfortunate about it?


    Tell us, o genial one….What sort of forum is SKWAWKBOX?

    It’s a political one, as you well know. In what other context do you think qwertboi was referring to? Nobody had changed from a political subject to any other, so WT absolute F do you think you’re playing at?

    Once again it’s all about semantics with you, isn’t it? Everything has to be referred to exactingly, everything that isn’t has to be explained to you, because you demand it. It’s usually several times, and even then you feign ignorance.

    And you continue to try to tell us that you’re right and we’re all wrong?

    Go on – get tae fock. Gobshite.

    1. Toffee – Yet more faux outrage 🥱, all I have done is politely asked qwertboi to define what he has said. I note that to date qwertboi has been unable to define the rather nebulous expressions he’s used.

      1. All’s I’ve done is politely….I’ve simply….yadda yadda.

        Now we’ve a new one…nebulous

        Well,you made it clear in your first post that you don’t believe the video’s been doctored, didn’t you?

        And feigning ignorance of qwertboi’s context is an affront to anyone’s far superior intellect.

        Trying to make out keef’s been taken out of context and that we should subject ourselves to his waffling on before reaching judgement.

        Well no thanks. I know what I heard, and I concur with Dave Hansell.

        But then you ask for clarification to something that didn’t need it.

        Oh! But of course keef was misunderstood. And that’s despite being asked for clarification that he meant the families were to be treated as terrorists.

        Because when keef said “they” he was referring to the smuggling gangs, NOT the families , wasn’t he?

        Well, wasn’t he?

        And then you feign ignorance what qwertboi was referring to. That’s despite qwerty’s post being quite categorical of the political narrative

        But qwerty didn’t say political narrative and you thought it’d be clever to exploit that even though you knew full well what qwerty was referring to.

        Twisting and turning more times than a rattlesnake with a hernia. Always looking for the slightest opportunity to obfuscate and evade. Never failing to come up with an excuse when called out for it.

        Well it’s old hat. And it makes you appear exactly the hypocritical, nonce-enabling gobshite you are.

        Now go away.

      2. Toffee – How would you know anything when by your own admission you are wilfully ignorant?

      3. “I note that to date qwertboi has been unable to define the rather nebulous expressions he’s used.”

        Which bit of “‘Narrative’ is a representation of a particular situation in a specific way to conform to (or enable) a particular objective or purpose” are you having problems with steveH?

        I certainly understand it and it is reasonable to infer that in the absence of anyone else questioning qwertboi on that matter so does everyone else hear.

        You are either stupid or being deliberately obtuse. Which is it?

        Once again, as you are on everything else, you are alone. No one agrees with you on anything. Your dismal record of persuading and influencing anyone and everyone of your fantasy narratives clearly demonstrates you could not give away water to a single living creature dying of thirst in the desert. Such is your total lack of credibility.

        You cannot even lie convincingly.

      4. Dave – Oh dear, yet more faux outrage.
        qwertboi rather unusually qualified the word ‘narrative’ as follows ‘domain of Narrative’ and ‘world of Narrative’ and I was curious what he meant by this.
        Please feel free to write me another essay.🥱

  8. Oh, and qwertboi replied to your specious request…

    Of course, it’s all bollocks though, isn’t it?

    See, you don’t talk a load of horseshite, and absolutely everyone agrees with each and every post you make, don’t they?

    And you call others a f’ing joke?

    What was it you were saying about faux outrage again, nonce case?

    Do pipe down ffs.

    1. Toffee – “Of course, it’s all bollocks though, isn’t it? “

      Well yes it is

      ………and there was I thinking that you were just pretending to be stupid. Surely you haven’t fallen for qwertboi’s ridiculous conspiracy theories.

      1. Whether I have or haven’t is neither here nor there and no concern of yours.

        Smarmer is a tool of the 1%. Of that I’m in NO doubt. Be they be known the global elite, bilderbergers or the illuminati, he’s a vassal.and no mistake.

        They want – he says and does.

        In no particular order:

        *Publicly and repeatedly supporting conservative policy
        *Nonce enabling
        *Flag shagging
        *No scrutiny or criticism of NATO allowed
        *Same for Israel
        *Ditto the monarchy
        *Refusal to tax wealth
        *Ditto corporates
        *Withdrawal of civil liberties & enhancement of state authoritarianism by way of…
        *War crimes
        *On record as preferring Davos to Westminster

        (Not an exhaustive list)

        I suppose they too, are ridiculous conspiracy theories.

        You are akin to a frog down a well. You only see the part of the sky the steep-walled chamber allows you to.

      2. Toffee – “I suppose they too, are ridiculous conspiracy theories.”

        You said it🤔

      3. On another matter
        Andrew Fisher and John Mcdonald have come out as fully paid up members of the Never ending War pigs club
        They want ‘Stop the War’ to disband
        Can JC’s fan boys tell us where he got those two fuckers from

      4. Reply to Doug
        You mention John McDonald – do you mean John McDonnell? If so it seems you are wrong about him. As far as I can see he did not call on Stop the War to disband. Would be grateful if you would please clarify

      5. “Composite 21 was passed overwhelmingly at TUC Congress in Liverpool, with only a handful of delegates opposed.
        The Socialist Campaign Group of Labour MPs – the bulwark of resistance to New Labour’s military adventures – is, like the TUC, overwhelmingly united in solidarity with the Ukrainian people against the Russian invasion. Former shadow chancellor John McDonnell spoke at a Ukraine Solidarity Campaign meeting alongside trade union leaders on Tuesday night in Liverpool.
        Ian Lavery (a former president of the National Union of Mineworkers) and Nadia Whittome, a former trade union rep, both sent video messages expressing their support for the position adopted by the TUC. According to the warped minds of the withered remnants of the now grandiosely-named Stop the War Coalition they are “backing the Tories”.
        Related Article
        20 years since the Iraq war, the devastation has been all but forgotten by its perpetrators
        Across the political spectrum and public opinion, Stop the War finds itself in a tiny minority position.

      6. Smartboy
        See ‘Not the Andrew Marr show’ Sunday 17th September
        The original Andrew Fisher article was in the Independent and was retweeted to his followers by John McDonnell

  9. And what’s the heading of that article, soft shite?

    That’s right.

    “Opinion” …And you’re complaining about narratives

    Go on, sod off. Get to soddery.

    1. Toffee – …………..and ………….. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

      1. Toffee – “I suppose they too, are ridiculous conspiracy theories.”

        You said it🤔

        That’s CORRECT, nonce-case. I said it.

        I said it because they are FACT.

        Name just a single one of those things I mentioned that is a conspiracy.

        Just one.

        Off you go, paedophobe…

      2. And once again….

        Nothing to come back with. You never fail to fail.

      3. What’s up, wee nonce case?

        Got your head in the nebulae, or jammed so far up yer arse that you’re still looking for the light switch?

      4. Toffee – I was very clearly referring to qwertboi’s Covid-19 denial and antiVax conspiracy theories. As I said above you were the one who added your long list.
        Are you like qwertboi, a Covid-19 denier and an antiVaxer.?🤔

      5. Covid-skeptic, YES! Anti-vaxer, NO!
        mRNA ‘vaccines’ are, of course, untested, very dangerous and show themselves to actually INCREASE infectiousness and susceptibility to disease.

        Novak Djokovic is obviously a great hero of mine. FWIW, I am proud to have worked on the development of two groups of highly effective vaccines.

      6. qwertboi – and yet despite your professed expertise the mRNA vaccines have proved to be remarkably effective and the mRNA technology has opened up a whole new medical sphere for treatment.

    2. I know, Toffee. Opinions which question or go against his own (which invariably support strong vested-interests), most hideously Establishment vested-interests, are always ridiculed, demeaned or smeared by him. I’d respect him more if he simply stated that he did not accept the points and, maybe, sometimes, explained why. But no, instead of responding to them rationally and analytically, he demeans and smears the offending opinions or their holders.

      I’d normally see this as nothing more than a sad reflection on the speaker (that they’re not the sharpest pencil in the box). But when they progress from sneering and ridicule to using the ‘Conspiracy’ word, I know they’re as good as CIA-trained practitioners of the Black Arts and that their intent is to close-down the discussion, which, as Dave Hansell said above, is proof of the opinions’ relevance and danger to the power(s) he protects.

      1. Qwertboi……The resident Shill is a paid for Troll.

        Paid to come on here to disrupt the chat and narrative, and I have to say, is very effective. He certainly earns his salary. Just don’t encourage the cretinous paedo protector. Ignore it/him/her/them/they………

      2. baz2001 – Given your self proclaimed expertise, what’s the going rate for a paid shill/troll?😏

      3. Apparently its £23,496 per annum.

        Don’t know what, if any, the OA is these days.

      4. Dave – Really, it doesn’t pay very well does it?
        How on earth do you manage to get by on so little?

    3. Bulwark of resistance. Yeah that gave me a chuckle. Leader of the NUM. He could buy a round for all his members, go t’opera, fish and chips and have change out of a farthing. Quick first one to the barricades gets a Wilco voucher. Oh yeah, Wilco job losses, the whole of the resistance are talking about it.

  10. The problem with Composite 21 is that NATO is an aggressor and the reason why Putin decided to protect Russian speaking areas in the east of Ukraine. I do not agree with his invasion but there is a civil war and NATO’s policy of ever expansion eastwards is the primary cause of the conflict. Biden prevented Ukraine agreeing to declare itself neutral and not apply for membership of the European Union and NATO, a situation that threatens Russia’s very existance.

    1. It makes one wonder why so many of the exUSSR states who having escaped Russia’s imperialist fascism and suppression were/are desperate to join the protective umbrella of NATO.🤔

      1. The power of nationalism is immense and easy to inflame as demonstrated by politicians in the British Isles to promote sectarianisn and division (aka independence). The war in Ukraine and the NATO alliance moves us closer to nuclear armagheddon and the only solution is a completely neutral Ukraine and an independent Federation of Russian speaking areas. Russia never intended to invade the whole of Ukraine and made no attempt to do so.
        Makes one wonder why so many countries in South America want their freedom from control by the United States.

      2. SteveH Is this your version of constructive criticism? I have always tried to avoid personal insults but now I realise that was just about as good as it gets from you! Disinegenuous, an accusation so easily made and totally without substance…..tell me, how many military bases does USA have world-wide and what do you think is their purpose?

      3. Steve Richards – “Is this your version of constructive criticism?”

        No, it is me expressing my opinion.

        As for how many bases the USA has around the world why would I waste my time looking it up and verifying from multiple sources just to tell you a figure that you already know.

      4. It makes one wonder why so many Countries and their people across the world are desperate to escape the imperialism and Neo-colonialism of the West by queuing up to join BRICS, SCO, Belt and Road etc. to join the protective umbrella of system that does not exploit them?

        Perhaps that well known ‘Putin Apologist’ organisation The United States Congressional Research Service can shed some light on the matter steveH:

        To quote ex CIA operative Larry Johnson:

        “Meanwhile, if you have any doubts that the United States is the number one country in the World for military “interventions” just take a look at this report from the U.S. Congressional Research Service, Instances of Use of United States Armed Forces Abroad 1798 – 2023.

        Since 1991, the United States has launched more than 200 military operations in foreign countries. Russia and China combined have been involved in less than 20 such activities. Just think about those numbers the next time you hear some American politician bloviate about the imperial ambitions of Russia and China. To paraphrase comedian Jeff Foxworthy, “If you launch an average of 9 foreign invasions a year you might be an Imperialist.”

        No wonder the worldwide refugee problem is growing exponentially. And the stark facts and reality is that the data and data analysis clearly demonstrates it is being driven by the West and NATO rather than Russia, China, Iran, India, Brazil, South Africa and the rest of the Global South no matter how much you desperately try to fool yourself (because you are fooling no one else steveH).

        And whilst your comment is only two days old steveH it has not aged well. Countries in Eastern and Central Europe are currently blocking Ukrainian grain because its undercutting their own farmers and Poland is going off-piste big style by’ putting the kibosh on sending arms to Ukraine. It is unknown whether this will this also include a ban on other NATO countries using Poland as a logistics transit hub for NATO weapons?’

        Bottom line is that it is not elites across the West, whose bullshit narrative you are pushing steveH, nor the Labour Party or the TUC or the ‘left you need to convince. It is the majority of people on the planet who are voting with their feet.

        Borell’s ‘Jungle’ has had enough of his ‘Garden’ and what it actually represents. And the really funny thing is that no matter how hard you troll or shill you are going backwards. What’s it like to have wasted your entire existence on a nothingburger steveH?

        Day after day trolling away like a good little house slave and getting absolutely nowhere. Sad, sad, pathetic little man.

      5. Dave – WOW❗
        Was that something that you prepared earlier❓

  11. More noncecase obfuscative bullshit.

    Toffee – I was very clearly referring to qwertboi’s Covid-19 denial and antiVax conspiracy theories.

    Toffee – “I suppose they too, are ridiculous conspiracy theories.”

    You said it🤔</I.

    WHAT was it I said?

    “I suppose they too, are ridiculous conspiracy theories”

    Plainly you referred to what I said. You were NOT referring to qwertbois covid post, but my list of FACTS.

    FACTS that you have NO fucking hope of disproving,; indeed you haven’t even attempted to, so you have risibly tried to confuse the issue.

    You’re fucking hopeless. Try AGAIN prick.

      1. So come along nonce, let’s all have another laugh….

        Just ONE example on that list (that you denied you were referring to, but was caught lying through your teeth) that is either A – “A conspiracy theory”,

        OR – B nebulous.

      2. ……bur it was the context to the secondary question about the purpose of the Military Industrial War Machine that Eisenhower warned the world about and you accuse me of being disingenous? Now the tertiary question, dealing with facts rather than opinion; how much has USA spent on its Military budget over the past 2 years and what do you think was the purpose? Answer the question?
        Opinions are like arseholes and full of …………….

    1. Nowt to say to me, having had to wear your arse for a hat AGAIN…So now youve decided to goad qwertboi and pour skepticism and scorn on qwertboi’s line of employment and proficiency in a subject you know comparatively next-to-nothing about (same as me, in fairness, except I dont sneer like you do)

      SteveH19/09/2023 AT 6:15 PM
      qwertboi –….

      I made my previous post at 5:37. You haven’t answered it because you have nothing to say – because once again you’ve painted yourself into a corner for all to see.

      And it’s strange that you whine about me being allegedly obsessed with your place of residence.

      Because this isn’t the first time you’ve questioned qwertboi’s employ and expertise, is it?

      Hypocritical, nonce-enabling rodent.

      1. Toffee – “you’ve painted yourself into a corner”No I haven’t I clearly referred to qwertboi’s Covid-19 nonsense and you were the one that went off on a tangent which I have chosen to ignore.

        and as for qwertboi, given his f’wit beliefs I feel my doubts are justified.

      1. Toffee – This is fun, .

        Oh, I couldn’t agree more. You’re certainly tying yourself up like a rib roast th’neet, soft shite.

        Mrs h got that anti-chew spray on the table legs yet? Hope she’s hid that single welly boot you worry the goats with…

        But as I’ve just mentioned to Baz….And this is further example of your raison d’etre.

        Sad weirdo.

  12. baz200119/09/2023 AT 5:56 PM
    Qwertboi……The resident Shill is a paid for Troll.

    Paid to come on here

    If he was being paid I’d be knocking on his door with a baseball bat, demanding reimbursement WITH interest.

    He’s so shite at what he does that he’s not worth a balloon.

    No, he winds people up for the sheer hell of it. He finds it “entertaining” – his own words.

    He has no life on his (imaginary) Caribbean idyll, so in order to amuse himself he has to be the centre of attention – even if that means he has to act like a complete imfantile qunt.

    …Which he invariably does, because his pitiful lack of social skills and self-awareness is all he has, and they don’t allow for any other persona to show through.

    I’ve suggested he seeks help/guidance on countless occasions, but he thinks I’m joking.

    And when he doesn’t, he thinks it’s me getting angry; making his ‘mission’ somehow accomplished.

    Oddballs who refuse to condemn, but in fact condone AND excuse nonsenseism don’t deserve to have any courtesy shown them, let alone when they show none to anyone else.

    A d there’s NO bigger odd all on this site.

    But PAID???


  13. Wassamarra, wee nonce case?

    No wisecracks? No wingdings?

    No emoji? No bingo card answers?

    No longer in the mood to prolong the fun you’ve supposedly been having, now you’ve been called out again?

    Not much fun, you, are ya? 😏

    1. Toffee – Oops my response ended up in the wrong place. I’d hate you to miss it so here it is again.

      Unfortunately I don’t have the time or the inclination to indulge you at the moment.
      I’m sorry that you feeling so lonely and bored today, but never mind it will soon be your bedtime. 😔

      1. And once again – you haven’t got time**

        ….When in reality, you haven’t got a bastard clue. As I said earlier – f’kin hopeless.

        As well as clueless AND useless.

        **Had time to lie to tell everyone though. and yet here you are again😏. What a knobhead.

  14. And what about it being my bedtime, prick?

    I’ll be awake to attend to my caring responsibilities during the night, just as I am most nights, several times per night – sometimes ALL night.

    So if that was an attempt at a dig it was fucking low.

    But par for the course from a goat-fucking, child-hating, nonce case who’s universally derided and despised.

    1. Toffee – Not a dig, why would you think that?
      On the contrary I’m aware of caring responsibilities and I think that it is admirable that you are caring for a loved one.

      1. Toffee – A quote from the article that you linked to
        “Her [Abbott’s] statement suggests that no such deal was struck.”

      2. I quite clearly said, the shithouses wanted Abbott to spew it at the next election.

        Not Abbott.

        Therefore it’s obvious no such deal was struck, nor would be.

        WT absolute F is your major malfunction?

  15. Thanks Toffee for the link to Sir Keir’s anti-Dianne Abbott lack of leadership. Must say, I’m pleasantly surprised by the BBC report. It at least mentions every significant criticism of Starmer’s authoriatarian party leadership as voiced by Dianne herself, even if it doesn’t ‘join the dots’ and cite the leadership’s hierarchy of racism and the damning suspension of fine socialist CLPs, Labour Black Socialists accusations of candidacy blocking, Apsana Begum, Rothery, Cllr Preston Tabois, etc., etc..

      1. Greatly appreciated goldbach.
        Hope you’re not away too long and that your temporary host resolves or lessens your health issues, restores you to fine fettle and that we see you again here soon.

      2. Seconded.

        Take it sleazy, goldie. Don’t be away too long 👍

      3. I am a barbarian (ie I don’t red the Guardian) and proud of it!

  16. Hitler was a popular leader and voted into power by the German public. The Sage of Baltimore once suggested that no-one went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public and now that we have a similar one party state it seems the same applies to the Great British Public who have voted for a Tory Gov’t for how many years? It seems there is so little difference between the 2 major political parties, as per USA, that few can tell them apart, so the public will vote for anyone other than………. with the blessing of MSM.
    Now I have a problem with the integrity of anyone who supports a political leader who breaks every electoral promise he has ever made; who endorses a State that is, by any definition apart from one, a racist endeavour that practices genocide on the indigenous population of Palestine. An authoritarian leader who is so terrified of any internal political debate within the Labour Party that he expels anyone who disagrees with him and runs for support from Rupert Murdoch and this person calls me disingenuous……….pot, kettle, black SteveH.

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