Welsh left-winger ousted in favour of Blairite after rigged contest
Cynon Valley MP Beth Winter has been deselected in favour of Blairite Gerald Jones in a ‘contest‘ that locals believe was a ‘stitch-up’ from start to finish.
Ms Winters has tweeted her disappointment in the lost – reportedly by just 16 votes despite the party machine’s efforts to stack the selection against her – for the new constituency to be created in the coming boundary changes and has detailed some of the measures used by the party to ensure Jones’s ‘victory’:
However, party insiders told Skwawkbox:
This was a machine stitch-up from start to finish, there was no way they were going to let Beth win even though she’s by far the better MP.
Rigging in other constituencies has seen bullying and intimidation, ineligible voters allowed to cast votes, shady postal votes and alleged impersonations at ballot meetings to oust Left-wing MPs in favour of odious right-wingers as Starmer’s cowardly and morally-bankrupt purge continues, as well as the usual fare of denying left MPs the chance to speak to members – or even simply barring them from standing while smearing them for good measure. Details of the precise manoeuvres used against Beth Winter are expected imminently.
The Starmer regime’s tactics give away the fundamental lack of substance, morals and political ideas of the Labour right, along with the nastiness that seems to be a requirement for membership of that faction.
Ms Winter has said she is considering her options. She should certainly stand as an independent against the rotten corpse of Labour and its toxic regime.
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…..and meanwhile “- The first major seat-level MRP poll under new constituency boundaries suggests Labour are set for a 140+ seat majority with 470 seats. The Conservatives are projected to win 129 seats but while Labour’s lead is significant, it is smaller than our last baseline MRP poll conducted in Autumn 2022. This is after Rishi Sunak wins back some Tory voters disaffected following Liz Truss’ premiership.
You can see the full details and analysis here:
https://www.bestforbritain.org/mrp_polling_new_boundaries_june_2023
Twenty-two comments at the time of posting, and ten of them by the paid full-time fascist shill, including the first comment, yet AGAIN. Needless to say, he doesn’t give a shit about left-wing MPs etc being stitched up, or left-wing Jewish members being persecuted by Starmer and his fascist buddies, or people being expelled retrospectively. Only people of a fascist mindset could possibly support such malevolent, evil psychopathic scum, or do so because they are unaware of the reality because the MSM have got Starmers Stasi Party’s back. Because they TOO are fascist scum!
Allan – Perhaps you’d be better off sticking to what you do best, counting my comments.
There was a high turnout and everyone that wanted to got to vote, why do you have a problem with democracy?
Now 26 out of 69! But just because he posts dozens and dozens of comments every day, and thousands a month, and tens of thousands every year, and has been doing so for seven years that *I* know of, and just because he gave everyone the impression that he was a left-wing Jeremy Corbyn supporter prior to Jeremy standing down and then suddenly started denigrating Jeremy on a regular basis, albeit fraudulently, perish the the thought that he’s an im-poster.
And needless to say he didn’t respond to the points I stated about Starmer.
I wonder why?!!
Allan – I’m surprised that you thought that anyone would bother to dignify that childish drivel with a reply.
As I said above – “Perhaps you’d be better off sticking to what you do best, counting my comments”.
Being selective, as always.
Depending on how things might evolve at the time, it also suggests a hung parliament is a likely outcome. So they are not at all ‘set’ for such a large majority, despite the quote.
Hung parliament ‘likely’ at next general election, Carol Vorderman tells LBC
PW – Who’s being selective, not me❗ 😲
Unlike your highly selective and disingenuous quote without any context whatsoever I provided the link to the source material and encouraged others others to read the full analysis and make up their own minds.
Carol had quite a lot to say in the 15 minutes she was on and unlike you I’m more than happy for people to listen to it in full and reach their own conclusions.
Here’s the link to what she actually said, in full
https://youtu.be/VNVeHTWcayk
Once again, you’ve ascribed something to me that isn’t true because it wasn’t a quote, dickhead.
As for ‘disingenuous’ and ‘context’ — this from your link:
– New analysis assuming that Reform UK will stand aside in Conservative marginals, shows that Labour could drop to 401 seats and the Conservatives would rise to 201 seats.
– Undecided voters remain the third largest voter bloc of the electorate after Labour and the Conservatives. Analysis shows that when you redistribute these voters based on demographic calculations, 370 seats is probably the high end of Labour’s predicted seat haul, while the Conservatives would be on 232 seats.
– When combining both of the above scenarios, Labour could fall as low as 316 seats which would be hung parliament territory. In this scenario, the Conservatives win 286 seats.
That’s a quote, imbecile. It confirms what I posted above. Now fuck off.
PW – I’m more than happy to stand by what I said above and repeat that I encourage other readers to read the analysis that I posted a link to at the head of these comments and to watch the link that I posted to the Carol Vorderman interview on LBC that you so kindly drew my attention to. 😘
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This one gives you a 12% lead, still short of a majority
Completely unreliable, as it has you winning 30 seats in Scotland
Really
Doug – I guess people will just have to decide for themselves whether your analysis is more credible than all the pollsters.
Having said that though your rather naive conclusion above does make me wonder whether you have even the first clue about how the results from MRP polls are arrived at. 🤔
Reply to Steve H
Starmers Labour has demonstrated a contempt for democracy in relation to Beth Winter and others. In addition they have shamelessly abused the disciplinary process to facilitate their anti semitism stitch up and they no longer even bother to try to hide the blatant anti Arab and anti Black racism and the Islamophobia which now pervades the party.
Therefore I am appalled by the prospect of a Starmer landslide at the next election. I think most democrats,anti-racists and those who believe in natural justice will feel the same.
You are of course entitled to your thankfully minority opinion.
…………………./´¯/)
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………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·´
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NVLA – ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bravo, NVLA. Comment of the year!
“Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?”
– Groucho Marx
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.”
– Phillip K Dick:’I Hope I Shall Arrive Soon.
“The medium is the massage.”
– Marshall MacLuhan
“You confuse what’s important with what’s impressive.”
– EM Forster
“Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.”
– Mahatma Ghandi
“Not everything that can counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted.”
– Albert Einstein
“The intelligence of the creature known as a crowd is the square root of the number of people in it.”
– Terry Pratchett
“SteveH, a conclave surrounded on all sides by reality.”
– Dave Hansell
Dave – Whilst I appreciate your sterling efforts to impress everyone with your cut and paste skills do you actually have anything to say about the excellent poll results above?
Yet another poll that reaffirms Labour’s consistent lead.
Here’s a couple of gold stars for your efforts ⭐⭐😘
steveH. Thanks for making my case for me.
Dave – ….and your case is what precisely, do you actually have one or are you still working that one out?
Quite simple to us grown ups steveH.
Which is that you are a clueless empty vessel shilling for a fascist oligarchy.
Right Wing Lab not want winning on IDEAS but Tories self-destructing and perhaps a lot of Tories are sat on their hands.
Will see what happens under the spotlight of a GE but still feel it will be hung with Lab biggest Party.
620 JC Independents should stand.
Left left in Lab won’t learn – stand as JC Independents.
Bazza – Why would any current Labour MP or PPC choose to flush their political career down the toilet. The last time ‘the left’ stood a substantial number of candidates their average number of votes was a measly 284 and all 135 of them lost their deposits.
For the good of the people? Are principles so completely alien to you Steve that you jusr can’t conceive of MPs or candidates risking the chance of a good pension and a cushy job ( All I have to do is tell lies ) to promote socialist policies designed to save millions of lives and make the great majority happier?
Can you not understand why people would risk a great deal to save the NHS from becoming a US style profit centre? Or fight for the right to strike, or protest?
People have died for these noble objectives. Can you not understand why decent people would risk sordid, semi criminal careers, backing Starmer to stand up for democracy and social justice?
bevin – I don’t accept the premise of your rant. Have you not studied Labour’s current policy platform.
Have you never thought to ask yourself why despite his decades of admirable campaigning Corbyn has never achieved any tangible benefits for the Palestinians?
Whether you accept reality or not steveH is irrelevant.
The facts and the evidence are that the policy platform you are pushing will not work because it based entirely on the premise of the continuation of the present failed paradigm.
If you wish to follow an authoritarian cult and its Oligarchy into oblivion that’s your problem. When you seek to continue the imposition of this unworkable nonsense as the only acceptable alternative (TINA on steroids) on the rest of us that becomes our business.
Fortunately, the emergence of a multipolar world offering a more practical, sustainable and workable paradigm will confine what you stand for to the dustbin of history in very short order.
If I were you I’d get yourself registered on the endangered species list.
Dave – Oh dear, yet more waffle, is that all you’ve got?
I see that you still haven’t managed to come up with any specific policies that you object to.
I’d get yourself to Specsavers pronto steveH as I’ve already provided a condensed outline on a previous thread – not only of the what by also the why – of what you are falsely claiming I have not provided.
I await your abject apology.
Dave – Have you, do you have a link?
How many links do you want?
Looks like you need to get checked out for Alzheimer’s after your visit to Specsavers .
Meanwhile:
“The (Labour) party has quietly accepted more than £230,000 worth of free staff from ‘big four’ accounting firms PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) and Ernst & Young (EY) since Keir Starmer took over as leader in 2020.”
He who pays the piper …………
Surely the point is that they are not paying.
You are not a simpleton. There is such a thing as payment in kind, as you know.
No one at that level gives something for nothing.
Though given this story…..
https://skwawkbox.org/2023/06/07/roger-waters-has-money-lets-hope-he-sues-the-arse-out-of-starmers-trousers/
…..they may well be throwing their money away simply because on one key point Skwawkbox got it wrong.
That story speculates that Roger Waters could potentially sue Keir Starmer for defamation. However, the evidence presented in that story – the letter containing the potential defamation – may have Starmers name on it but, by having the Labour Party letterhead on the letter, that letter was not written by Starmer on behalf of Starmer it was instead and in fact written on behalf of the Corporate Organisational entity registered as the Labour Party.
If Waters takes such a step the correct due process procedure under law would be to sue the Labour Party for defamation rather than Keir Starmer the individual.
In such an eventuality, good luck finding and fighting a Parish Council Election let alone a General Election.
Dave – I haven’t seen the letter that Keir was replying to, have you?
Unless we know what these ‘examples’ were then how can we reach an informed decision about their veracity?
From openDemocracy:
Andrew Fisher, Labour’s Corbyn-era policy director, said he understood that free support from consulting firms was tempting but came with risks.
“The opposition have got a limited pool of Short money and it’s difficult to get the sort of capacity that the government has with the entire civil service working for it,” he told openDemocracy. “So the temptation is to take these sorts of people on – but obviously they will lobby for their own interest.
“And sometimes there is a very sharp difference between what is in the interest of accountancy firms, or the banks, or hydrogen lobby groups, and what is in the public interest and what is the best policy in the round.”
Revealed: Labour taking free staff from scandal-hit consulting firms
Bazza – The last time ‘the left’ stood a significant number of candidates they all lost their deposits.
You should try removing your blinkers and take a look at Labour’s current policy platform.
Why would any current Labour MP or PPC flush their political career down the toilet by standing as ‘JC independents’?
Thankfully most of the electorate (apart from you apparently) have had enough of the Tories.
As in 1997, the tories will lose the GE but the PLP won’t win it!
marty – Even if you are right (I don’t believe you are) it would still be a considerable improvement on the 19GE where we lost 60 seats because amongst other things:
▪ We went into the election 11% points behind the Tories
▪ 66% of the electorate didn’t trust our party leader
▪ For the first time ever more of the working class voted Tory than voted Labour (by a substantial margin of 15% (48% to 33%)). Labour were saved from being completely decimated by their middle class vote, Labour actually had more middle class votes than they had working class votes.
▪ The leadership hid behind ‘constructive ambiguity’ for month after bloody month. So much so that nobody trusted a word they said by the time they’d done prevaricating.
▪ …and they topped it all off by running a very poor election campaign.
Have you actually bothered to take a good look at Labour’s current policy platform?
Have you actually bothered to take a good look at Labour’s current policy platform?
“current” being the key word.
Toffee – The electorate have already firmly rejected the last manifesto, have you forgotten that Corbyn lost 6O seats?
Toffee – The electorate have already firmly rejected the last manifesto, have you forgotten that Corbyn lost 6O seats?
So WHY did YOU vote keef – elected on ‘continuity corbyn’?
Helmet.
Toffee – I would have thought that was obvious, I believed that out of all the candidates standing for the leadership Keir would prove to be the most successful at making the Labour party electable again. Given what was on offer the polls are clearly indicating that I made the right choice,
Why do you continue to obsess about a party that you left over a quarter of a century ago. Do you think that there might be a reason why decades later you are still politically homeless
I believed that out of all the candidates standing for the leadership Keir would prove to be the most successful at making the Labour party electable again
.
And what did keef do/say to make himself/the party electable?
Ah yes. Those ten pledges. So not only were you forewarned you’d be shat on by his reneging on those, but alsoshst on by his Brexit shithouse flip-floppery.
And STILL you extol the proven liar, coward and nonce enabler
What a prize gobshite.
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If that was true, why would they vote for Ersatz Red Tories
Every Independent is one more holding the balance of power in a hung parliament
Doug – Here’s why so many Labour voters voted Tory in 2019.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2019-12-23/Why%20did%20people%20not%20vote%20labour.jpg
I see that Sue Gray has been cleared to join Keir Starmer’s team in the autumn.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/06/sue-gray-cleared-to-take-up-labour-job-this-autumn-partygate
I think we need a brain-storming session from the Unions.
Sort out, once and for all which Unions support this authoritarian party, and which Unions don’t.
Then we can take it from there.
That would be a more informative ‘poll’ than one John Curtice isn’t, even, sure about.
What proportion of the NEC are Union appointees?
“I have campaigned for properly funded public services paid for by taxing the rich, an extension of workers’ rights including a £15 per hour living wage, the renationalisation of our public services…”
And those are the exact reasons she is no longer wanted by Starmer.
The PLP – a party within a party!
Surely there’s legal avenues for this kind of repeated stitch up. After all, membership is a two way contractual obligation.
Re Ukraine…..
If what Merkle said about the Minsk Agreements is true, and it was just a ploy to hoodwink Russia to buy time whilst the US and other Nato countries armed Ukraine etc, then the implication is of course that they knew way back then that Russia – Putin – would be provoked into invading Ukraine eventually.
And another aspect of all this are the proposals that Russia made a couple of months or so before the invasion took place, proposals that addressed their security concerns and could easily have been agreed upon by the US/Nato and, as such, avoided all the death and destruction and devastation that has been happening since Feb 24 last year, including of course the hundreds of thousands of mainly young men on both sides who have been killed or permanently maimed or crippled and/or brain-damaged in combat, and the unbearable pain and suffering of their families and close friends at the loss of a son, a brother, or a husband or a father.
But my main point is this: That practically the whole of the Western media deliberately and calculatedly blanked the Russian proposals and omitted to inform their readers and viewers and listeners about them, and for the obvious reason they knew in advance what the propaganda line was gonna be when Russia DID invade Ukraine – ie the Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union etc, etc, etc, If it had been the other way round, you can be 1000% certain that every main-stream news outlet in the West would have covered the proposals prominently, and kept them prominent for days and weeks.
And of course relatively few people know that Russia DID make the proposals (on December 17, 2021). The following is from a couple of weeks before that:
‘Russia to unveil security pact proposals in bid to restrain NATO’
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Thursday that Moscow would soon put forward proposals for a new European security pact which he said he hoped would stop NATO from expanding further eastwards.
Lavrov was speaking at a summit of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) in Stockholm ahead of talks with his U.S. counterpart Antony Blinken expected to focus on tensions around Ukraine…..
In a speech to the OSCE, Lavrov said that Europe was returning to what he called the nightmare of military confrontation and said he hoped that Russia’s proposals on a new European security pact would be carefully considered.
Putin has said he wants guarantees NATO will halt its eastwards expansion and not deploy certain weapons system close to Russia.
“The architecture of strategic stability is rapidly being destroyed, NATO refuses to constructively examine our proposals to de-escalate tensions and avoid dangerous incidents,” Lavrov told the OSCE.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-unveil-proposals-new-european-security-pact-soon-lavrov-2021-12-02/
THAT Putin wants to……(not THE Putin wants to…..!)
The key point missing here – which needs to be made explicit – is that these Security proposals to both the USA and NATO in two separate but related documents were based on a very specific principle which was made explicit at the time.*
That principle was of indivisible, equal and undiminished security for all Parties – both the Eurasian ‘Heartland’ of Makinder AND NATO and its member States – in terms of not undertaking actions nor participating in or supporting activities that affect the security of the other Party.
*But only by one of the Parties. Reading the responses of the Western political class and its captured fifth columnist corporate propaganda media the notion of other people having a right to security when they are sitting on resources the Western Oligarchy wants to steal for themselves – like they steal everything else – is anathema. As the Rand Report details.
Right now if there are any among that Oligarchic elite who do have a working brain cell they will doubtless be wishing they could turn the clock back to grab those proposals. Simply because of every front – military, industrial, economic, trade, and World opinion and alignment outside of Borrell’s ‘Garden’ – they are getting their arses handed to them in a far worse way than that dished out to their counterparts in the equally unworkable Roman Oligarchic hegemony by the “Barbarians” over a millennium and a half ago.
Yes, Allan. Putin had made similar proposal for a European Security Framework at least twice before this, the first time soon after he became president. As I recall, Gorbachev had made a similar suggestion when he was president.
The US and their acolytes knew perfectly well in what direction their policy would lead.
They got what they wanted, and now they find that it hasn’t turned out quite as they had anticipated.
Came across this last night:
‘Nato members may send troops to Ukraine, warns former alliance chief’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/07/nato-members-may-send-troops-to-ukraine-warns-former-alliance-chief
I’d like to know where my last two comments ts have gone but here goes…
Next time wee gobshite thinks he’s being
dead clever by asking about credible alternatives and the left, be sure to point him in the direction of Jamie Driscoll’s record of delivery rather than the bullshit promises keef makes then rigs on from week to week; instead of reverting to out & out toerag policy he’s more or less admitted he’ll stick to (when he’s not agreeing with/supporting them)
It’s looking like I might be proved right
“Jeremy Corbyn ‘could run for London Mayor’ – standing AGAINST Labour!
Grab the popcorn for this one: Jeremy Corbyn is said to be a mulling a bid to become Mayor of London in 2024, as an independent candidate.
It’s looking like I might be proved right.
I
Because it’s all about you, isn’t it?
Tosser.
Toffee – ….and your thoughts on Jeremy standing for Mayor are?
That’s Khan bollocksed then.
246
JC Mayor of London
Driscoll Mayor of North East
What next, a hung Parliament with Independents, SNP, Lib Dums and Greens holding balance of power
Doug – The SNP are currently in meltdown, the LibDems are flat-lining (or worse) and will the Greens still have an MP, Caroline Lucas has announced that she will be stepping down at the next election?
Regarding the next article on this website:
What efforts has Starmer made to verify the claims in the original letter from Zyl?
Perhaps Starmer could clarify this.
Incidentally, the word ‘license’ is incorrect here because it is a verb and not a noun. ‘Licence’ is a noun and should have been used. It could be a typographical error though because the letters ‘s’ and ‘c’ are close together on the keyboard.
Perhaps Starmer could clarify that too.
A clarification which, given that the letter was written on paper with the Labour Party letterhead at the top, would surely be clarification on behalf of the Labour Party rather than Keir Starmer as an individual.
Keir Starmer signed it. That’s his signature.
Unfortunately we are yet to see the letter that prompted this reply.
Unfortunately we are yet to see the letter that prompted this reply.
What’s “unfortunate” about it?
Toffee – Don’t you think that it is unfortunate that we aren’t being given the full facts?
What ‘full facts’ are these?
The letter’s been published. It’s in black & white. Keef’s put his scrawl on it.
Toffee – I thought that would be obvious, even to you. We only have half the story.
HALF the story?
Explain.
Toffee – Do you know what the examples are that Keir refers to at the start of his letter?
… and there lies the answer to your query.
Are you suggesting there are other/further claims other than the ones already known about – and found to be total bullshit?
Or are you hoping there’s some sort of get-out for the muculent one?
“Keir Starmer signed it. That’s his signature.”
On behalf of the Labour Party. When a CEO of a company signs a document or letter with the Company heading on it he is signing it on behalf of the Corporate entity which he is representing not as an individual.
If there is any question mark in regard legality it is the Corporate entity which is the prime defendant not the individual representative of the Company.
How to piss off and alienate 51% of the voting electorate:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-cynical-treatment-of-pauline-mcneill/
The fact that we have to read about this in right wing rags like the Spectator – where the hell is Tribune, Novara et al? – is bad enough. However, the point being that the LP is not just handing out ammunition to be used against it between now and if we ever get another election it is actively increasing production and manufacture of said ammunition.
On the Roger Waters subject, earlier this year, the wife of former (Floyd) bandmate David Gilmore – Polly Samson – accused Waters of anti-Semitism.
Gilmour then re-shared Samson’s tweet, adding that “every word [is] demonstrably true”.
I haven’t seen or been made aware of anything from Samson or Gilmour related to these latest specious accusations.
Why? Because Gilmore was a band member when The wall (both album and film) was released back in the late 70’s. The performance hasn’t changed (much) since, AFAIA.
So accusing the performance of being anti-Semitic would mean Gilmour himself is guilty of antisemitism, having took a prominent part in both it’s creation and performance(s)
Anyway, it can’t be properly judged “antisemitic until hodge, ellman riley and the rest shriek so.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/david-gilmour-attacks-former-pink-floyd-bandmate-roger-waters-social-media-3393588
Thanks for that Toffee.
Everyday a new facet of the racist corrupt Labour Party is revealed. I hope they keep on doing it, with every episode they lose votes, and that’s a good thing in my opinion. Fuck the Labour Party and all those that sail in her…..
FAO@Dougal (And anyone else willing to have a punt) get yer mortgage on Clive Lewis being the next one to be given the boot…
https://twitter.com/labourlewis/status/1666709362583150593?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1666709362583150593%7Ctwgr%5Edf6b365c3916e2ce75409f80509fefa791f6f82e%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvoxpoliticalonline.com%2F
The bastard…how DARE he?! 😒
The SCG strategy seems to be to keep their heads down in the hope of going unnoticed.
Their strategy is a joke tbh, as all it’s achieved is leaving the left with no political voice in the UK and hideous Starmer with no PLP opposition. And it won’t even save their status, as RW arseholes in HQ are working around the clock going through a list to whittle them down anyway.
When ‘big beasts’ like Corbyn and Abbott have already been felled, what chance lesser known left-wing MPs, those without the name recognition and constituency support base.
Better for them to make a stand.
Toffee – I wonder if come the next election the Greens will lose their one and only seat to Labour. In the local elections just gone Labour gained 18 seats and the Greens lost 10
246
In Local Elections you only had a 9% lead, still in no man’s land
Doug – …..and the point you are so desperately trying to make in relation to this particular constituency is❓
Tried twice to comment and no success????????????
Let’s see if this appears.
One final try to comment after another one bit the dust.
Re:“Jeremy Corbyn ‘could run for London Mayor’ – standing AGAINST Labour!”
This can hardly be referred to as news. It first appeared with this exact title in December 2022 in The London Economic, with the sub-headline “Grab the popcorn for this one: Jeremy Corbyn is said to be a mulling a bid to become Mayor of London in 2024, as an independent candidate.”
Seems that news travels slowly to the BVI.
I would post the link to the article but I think that showing the link may be preventing it from being posted. It’s easy to find though.
Now this is very interesting.
The Beeb has this article tucked away low down in its European news section on the website.
It’s about the Kakhovska dam, and what’s interesting is that it doesn’t go full mental accusing Russia of the act. It gets as close to being even handed as it is able and talks about “whoever is responsible”.
Could sections of the powers that be in the UK be starting to display the kind of scepticism of the Ukrainian government that some in the US have been expressing for a couple of weeks?
Here it is
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65821052
Have they reported that seismic stations detected the explosion when the dam was blown up
https://www.npr.org/2023/06/08/1181078981/seismic-stations-detected-explosion-at-ukrainian-dam
Seismology monitoring stations detect an explosion when there was an explosion.
Quelle surprise!
goldbach – Oh for goodness sake get a grip. Some reports have cast doubts about how the breach of the dam occurred. so yes it is good to see it confirmed that it was blown up
Surely you never entertained the idea that there could be any merit in the silly narrative that poor maintenance was behind the breach in the dam.
Despite Turkish/South African calls for an independent investigation, we will never get one – it would be unsafe for a team to be sent.
So we are left with looking at the balance of probabilities, which points to the likelihood of it having been Ukraine. After all, they have been shelling and launching HIMARS missiles at the dam for months, and doing the same to the NPP. They have form.
For those who are interested, a very thorough and pretty long analysis on the destruction of the dam.
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/portmortem-analysis-on-kakhovka-dam?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Or, for a rather more accessible analysis
https://bigserge.substack.com/p/russo-ukrainian-war-dam
Big Serge is generally thought to be a retired US officer.
Simplicius is believed to be Scandinavian.
goldbach – You are either one of Putin’s useless idiots or a gullible simpleton.
I’m sorry. I was wrong about you.
You are, indeed, a simpleton.
Rather than engage with various analyses which have been advanced by a number of people, you resort to name calling.
Advance your reasons for thinking that the analyses put forward by “Big Serge” and “Simplicius” are incorrect, and outline your own analysis, or just go and play with your ….
…. goats.
steveH. When are you going to grow up?
Just because facts and/or evidence you don’t like does not give you the right to defame people in the way you have here (again).
If you think something is unsound have the balls and the wherewithal to argue on the basis of evidence rather then this constant childish approach of assigning anything and everything you clearly cannot answer with this redundant name calling.
It merely demonstrates your insecurities and total absence of any substance. Even nursery school children have a better grasp of how to deal with reality than you regularly and consistently demonstrate.
Dave – and yet here you are again 🙄
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/07/russia-ukraine-war-live-updates-nova-kakhovka-dam-collapse-kherson-oblast-floods-evacuations-flood-flooding-latest-news?
So Sunak, on the basis of stevH’s pre-puerile level rantings is a “Putin stooge.”
Ditto for those in the Washington beltway for similar statements/
The neo-cons are now to the left of steveH……..
Dave – Couldn’t you find anything more current, this is more than 2 days old.
…..meanwhile here’s the rabidly pro-western Radio Free Europe/Radio liberty…..
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-floods-oleshky/32450599.html
Channeling the pro-Putin propaganda – courtesy of steveH’s Nazi mates in Ukraine – that the Russians are suffering ten times the devastation of the Ukraine side from this incident.
The notion of steveH – along with other useless idiots like Greta Thunberg (see the Duran podcast from Cyprus at around 36 minutes and 50 seconds mark from earlier today) – that Russia would deliberately cut off vital water from Crimea affecting both drinking water and agricultural water through the extensive canal system; risk the Nuclear power station under its control; sweep away its own defences; and destroy its own control of the flow to prevent a Ukrainian advance downstream of the dam is off the wall crazy.
Its mad dog foaming at the mouth idiocy which no sane rational person except someone totally sold on a cult narrative would entertain.
Welcome to the idiocracy world of steveH and his handlers.
Dave – What were you hoping to prove with your link?
Re: “Dave – Couldn’t you find anything more current, this is more than 2 days old.”
It isn’t quite as old as “Jeremy Corbyn ‘could run for London Mayor’ – standing AGAINST Labour!”, is it?
“….and yet here you are again.”
There are two options; attempt to educate pork or the traditional route of all pork. If you prefer the latter option steveH just say so. Though the queue to oblige is likely to stretch round the block.
1. In the absence of a contrary statement, along with credible evidence to back it up, from Sunak on behalf of the UK Government to change that official position of lack of evidence to pin this on the Russians and similar from Washington the point made remains current and valid. regardless of how old the link is.
If you have such evidence produce it. But, on the basis of your past record steveH, you either cannot or will not So the odds are you will run/slink away in silence yet again with your tail between your legs. Proving once again what an empty vessel you are.
2. Don’t have to prove anything. the facts speak for themselves. As you have no counter evidence to bring to bear you are left sticking you head in the sand because you are unable to deal with reality as your demented delusions fall apart.
You can run from the reality and the evidence and the fact you have nothing steveH but you can’t hide.
Once again; the two most used words in the English language – steveH zilch.
Dave – “Don’t have to prove anything. the facts speak for themselves.”
That’s a very convenient cop-out. Precisely which facts are you referring to, do you actually have any?🤔
Good grief. What’s happened to the Grauniad?
They’re not supposed to allow any deviation from the official (false) narrative.
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/labour-mcarthyism-jamie-driscolls-treatment-is-wrong-and-dangerous/
Freedland will be spitting feathers.
Dave – ….and yet here you are again 🙄
Is there an echo in here or did a Norwegian Blue just enter the premises?
Who are you trying to impress, yourself?