Tories stay unchanged while other parties fall. Starmer switching off voters even as country implodes under Johnson
Despite the desperate spin of his place-people and media allies last night and this morning, Labour’s polling has fallen after Keir Starmer’s policy- and vision-free conference speech yesterday – despite bussing in supporters and intimidating dissenters with armed police to create an illusion of popularity – down a point and now eight points behind the Tories. A far cry from the ‘twenty points ahead’ we were guaranteed with ‘anyone but Corbyn’:
The Tories have stood still, despite a disastrous and entirely avoidable fuel crisis, the ongoing pandemic slaughter, the NHS crisis, rising taxes and a host of the usual Johnson-driven fiascos, but the only party to gain – just one point – is the former UKIP, Reform UK.
Keir Starmer’s speech, supposedly his make-or-break moment, is driving voters away to, well, to not voting at all. Such is the visionless and focus-grouped dreariness he delivered – and just as importantly the lack of political substance of the man himself.
Just as in Hartlepool and Batley and Spen, the more voters see of Starmer the less likely they are to vote Labour – and as a video of voters shot yesterday in swing constituency Bassetlaw showed, when they are aware of him at all they are switched off – and many pine for his predecessor:
Rightly, no amount of spin can hide the sheer vacuum of neo-Labour’s ‘leader’.
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There are two parts to a ‘bounce’. The ‘ups’ and the ‘downs’.
Starmer defies physics. He can only manage the ‘downs’.
No one can work out how he manages to do that.
The man’s a genius.
I’m not able to use the like button, (don’t know why) so I’ll say it. Like.
Me neither!! Been searching for the ‘like’ button for ten minutes!
Click on where it says Like or Liked by 3 people etc…
George, it’s fairly easy to explain.
Whenever you see an animal having a cack, it’s turds don’t bounce back up, do they?
Lynn, it makes no sense. I am logged in and can comment, but when I try ot “like” a comment it tells me to log in.
I thought pootas were run on logic?
his complete lack of charisma and dishonesty/slipperyness might have something to do with that, he really is a beige blur
Corbyn is the only man who can save this Labour shitshow and they bloody well know it.
No amount of Rayners polishing a Keith Turd is going to make any difference
Andrew, at the moment, even though I have criticised Jeremy Corbyn’s capitulation to our enemies, I agree with you, with the proviso that he has learnt some valuable lessons.
At the moment, we have leading our two major Parties two con men, one who hides his true intentions behind a visage of decency and another who hides his intentions behind bluff and bluster.
We need someone such as Jeremy Corbyn, decent beyond reproach, to lead us.
JackT
JC President for Life
Next leader needs to be a good youngun, a history maker, then we wrap them both in cotton wool, roll them out for the crowds
Meanwhile our A team handle MSM and toilet papers by framing the story to our advantage, starting with no such thing as a Free Press in this country, we are going to change that
You dont get to spread your propaganda no more
Only talk about our manifesto and the stench from the cheap and nasty Tory party
If you want two good examples, watch last night’s Newsnight and anything with Laura Pidcock, I knew her father
Grace Blakeley
Jack, is that the same Jeremy Corbyn you have accused on numerous occasions of throwing ‘good comrades’ under the bus? Oh right, and despite you believing that JC capitulated to ‘our enemies’ – as you have ALSO said in literally scores of posts – you regard him as ‘decent beyond reproach’, and assert that we need someone like him to lead us.
Needless to say, if anyone REALLY believed such things about JC, they would despise him, and there is no way on this planet that they would be describing him as ‘decent beyond reproach’, and that we need someone like him to lead us.
Yeah, so Jeremy’s ‘decent beyond reproach’ says JackT, who has ‘reproached’ him (albeit fraudulently) on literally hundreds of occasions during the course of the past three years or so. What a joke! What a joker! But THAT’s shills for you!!
PS I don’t suppose many people saw it, but here’s Jack in another thread earlier today dissembling his B/S falsehoods again:
https://skwawkbox.org/2021/09/29/labour-ships-in-day-visitors-for-starmers-speech-and-still-cant-fill-conference-hall/#comment-200699
Yeah, JackT is such good buddies with Chris Williamson that Chris confides in him! TOTAL B/S Jack!!
White Flag Man I, like many members and ex members, unlike you who appears to be rather childish, can recognise Corbyn’s faults and qualities.
Trying to unite the left, let alone the left and the right is even worse than herding cats. Corbyn came close to doing it until he was sabotaged by the enemy within i.e. the Zionists.
You don’t seem to be able to recognise that a decent person can also have faults. It’s inconceivable that he could take over as leader again but he could be a unifying influence if back in the PLP when Starmer is ditched and someone such as Mark Drakeford took over.
Doug, I don’t think you should place too much faith in Laura Pidcock, this is from Tony Greenstein’s blog:
It is to the discredit of John McDonnell, Richard Burgon, Laura Pidcock, Dianne Abbot and the other members of the Socialist Campaign Group that not only did they fail to offer any solidarity with Chris (Williamson) but Pidcock told him not to come to SCG meetings anymore. Richard Burgon’s excuse was ‘What can 10 MPs do against 100?’ It was an attitude of utter defeatism.
We can’t really ask Corbyn to jump back into this- he’s been put through enough abuse and slander- but someone who combined his principles and values with an ability to fight back on her own behalf, like Zara Sultana or Dawn Butler, could be the answer.
I don’t know much about Zara Sultana, so I just did a search, and one of the results that came up was the following ‘article’ in the Mail (published on November 6, 2019) with the headline:
‘Labour candidate Zarah Sultana, who said she would ‘celebrate’ deaths of Tony Blair and Benjamin Netanyahu, is accused of anti-white slur’
But in a sub-headline immediately following the headline, the Mail straight away sets out to mislead and deceive its readers by saying the following:
‘Labour MP criticised for saying that she would ‘celebrate’ Tony Blair’s death’
When I read that I naturally assumed that Zara was elected as an MP in 2017, but what with it being the Daily Mail I checked it out, and she had never been an MP prior to standing as a LP candidate in the 2019 election. And needless to say, what with her being a Jeremy Corbyn supporter, the fascists trawled through her twitter account etc going back years so as to find ‘mud’ to sling at her, and for the obvious reasons.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7653965/Labour-candidates-anti-whites-slur-Zarah-Sultana-centre-race-row.html
PS And THAT story is followed by another in which the fascists trawled back even FURTHER to find some dirt on another LP candidate.
Between 60% and 70% of voters agree with the key policies from the 2017/19 manifestos (when presented on their own). So I guess they don’t appreciate being chatte on by both pundits and the leadership, being told that what looks like the obvious things to do are “far left drivel” and being patronised…
George – It’s all down to the coefficient of restitution. A high CR provides a great rise. A low Cr and it’s only a small rise.
Clearly, Starmer’s CR is zero. Many substances with zero CR will shatter when they hit the ground. Others will simply spread into a splodge. Which one is Starmer/ Take your pick.
🙂 Applause!
Given that the responses to this poll were collected on the Tuesday and Wednesday and the results were published at 5pm on Wed 29th it is difficult to see how Starmer’s lunchtime speech could have had much impact (if any) on these results.
These people were quite sure of their opinions, even, if they didn’t have instant recall of names :
https://twitter.com/i/status/1443365621803241479
My goodness. So this is how they felt even before the vacuous twaddle.
“Given that the responses to this poll were collected on the Tuesday and Wednesday and the results were published at 5pm on Wed 29th it is difficult to see how Starmer’s lunchtime speech could have had much impact (if any) on these results.”
True. The reality is probably much worse. Sunday papers will have a hey-day.
qwertboi – We’ll see whether or not you are proved right.
We’ll see whether or not you are proved right.
Else we’ll see how conducive the rags are to keef then, eh?
Sorry Qwertboi I hadn’t read your post when I posted similarly to you
I can understand why you are a bit down Steve H Hall….We all are after the fiasco in Brighton and a speach even that sounded more like a application for sure start than a rallying of the Labour party.by the alleged leader I know as a “professional” person advising at the job centre you would not have been impressed with that shitshow with armed police around e every corner.intimidating members and delegates.Very sad and even you wouldn’t give that thing a job…..would you?
Joseph – On the contrary I’m quite pleased with the overall outcomes from Conference,
I’ve pointed out to you, on a number of occasions, that I have never been employed in any capacity by the DWP so why do you persist with this silly distraction. Perhaps silly distractions is all you’ve really got to offer.
That Lunchtime Speech seemed to have a remarkable – immediate – effect on the MSM. Content and delivery.
There was such a concerted attempt to create the narrative.
I thought there may be a looming shortage of Smelling Salts, with so much swooning going on.
If only they could control themselves more.
Thankfully, as we saw, the public are wise to them now – Starmer and the MSM.
See my comment @ 12:45, below.
Hey – Starmer and the MS… No, that would be silly.
I, like most of the electorate never listened to his speech. However, I know it was light on policy and heavy on personal interest. Politicians have to be very careful with personal interest or it becomes like them kissing/cooing over babies. And given we’ve all heard his spiel about being a toymakers son etc before, several times, it was a long speech, he’s got a monotonous voice and a wooden face it is pretty reasonable to assume it made no impact either way and untill, just before the election, people know what he stands for at that moment in time, his polling results are likely to be affected only by Johnson’s popularity or otherwise.
You could be right Steve H because I was very surprised Starmer’s polling didn’t fall even more after his lack lustre performance
Early days.
SteveH- Even if Labour get a small bump from that insipid, substance-free speech. What’s to stop Johnson getting a similar bump in the polls?
The optics of forced rapturous applause for bland guff, may give a temporary boost, who knows? But the vacuousness at the core of Starmer led Labour is still there.
The only (slightly)memorable stuff was the references to tool making, and the sweat of one’s brow, fetishising of hard work, and family. That’s really going to get voters dashing to the polls. /s
I thought that his old man was a cabbie. Sorry, that was Endeavour.
All I have done in my 12:33pm post above is draw attention to the blindingly obvious so I am a more than a little surprised by the number of rather desperate rants that my comment has attracted.
Judging by last night’s cruising on TV of MSM all political journalists appeared to believe that Starmer’s speech was acceptable & positive; even Murdoch News Channels were ‘encouraging’, nothing negative. Damned by faint praise & grateful that the Labour Party has abandoned Socialism.
The establishment needs a Labour Party in “safe hands”, so that it can be “allowed” to win once in a while without any risk to the interests of the rich and powerful.
1. This maintains the fiction of democratic choice.
2. It also allows the leading traitors in the Labour Party to have their occasional turn at “snouts in the trough”
You know – Safe seats – Safe perks – Safe ministerial salaries – Safe pensions – – – What is there not to like ?? !!
3. Meanwhile – the contrived debate about gender politics continues to occupy the chattering classes
– and –
the self-serving process of capital accumulation continues without interruption.
No surprise that the MSM are giving Starmer’s shit-show such an easy ride.
People in Bassetlaw …Bring Jeremy back.
Bassetlaw – john mann’s former seat. ~They want Jeremy back and don’t like stammer, but they elected that arrogant stammerite twat, mann?!!
Still, God loves a sinner come to repent, I guess.
I see Sarkozy has been nailed and banged up for a year….viv la France…! Wonder what the knight would get for his dodgy funding and the missing millions of members money that was jeremys legacy for the members…Certainly France knows the correct way to deal with bent politicians that grab the money 💰.and stash it.
Not gonna do any budgie though, is he? Just a tag around his ankle.
Whereas I’d make him wear a tag around his neck that reads: ‘I am a fraud’ for the rest of his days
Toffee, he already knows that. Time for the Torquemada boys.
He is a hateful automaton, surrounded by unbelievably hopeless sdp type cretins
Won’t be voting Labour under this vile man
Labour’s Blairite right keep repeating their claim that,”winning is more important than sticking to [socialist] principles” – the obvious implication being not having principles and an empty policy cupboard is the key to victory. But where is the evidence for that assumption? Both party polling and Starmer’s personal polling, to date, have been consistently dire. And the last standing Blairites to test this theory in the UK, in Scotland, under then leaders’ Jim Murphy and Kezia Dugdale, were despised and the party completely smashed electorally. The idea “voters have nowhere else to go” doesn’t hold these days.
Labour MPs face a choice between two options, imho : they either dump Starmer and the millions who consider themselves left will consider supporting the party, after assessing the Shadow Cabinet and revised policy platform. Or alternatively, the party will suffer an electoral hammer blow, so heavy, the party will be reduced to a Lib Dem c.2015 – type rump and face an existential crisis. Hope they choose wisely.
—
Also this. Firsthand accounts today from women, who were protesting in the main conference hall, that they were physically manhandled and threatened by Starmer Troopers. It appears the ZANU Labour enforcers, who brutally ejected the then 82 year old Walter Wolfgang from conference, are back in business.
Andy – Well at least they are undeniably an improvement on Jeremy’s even more dire polling.
SteveH – The key difference being Corbyn had a strong underlying support base, people who loved him. An army, who would do anything for him, including campaigning activities.
Starmer only generates apathy, and insomuch as he’s got a support base(?), it consists of flip-flopping centrist guardian-reading floating voters – the #FBPE people who may just as easily vote Lib Dem, or even Tory, dependent on how they feel when they get out of bed on election day.
So, similar party ratings, yep, but a far weaker commitment to actually voting Labour.
Andy – As clearly illustrated in the 19GE when for the first time ever more of the working class voted Tory than voted Labour. Labour’s arse was saved by middle class voters whist the working class ran away from Corbyn and put Boris in power with an unassailable 80 seat majority.
Unfortunately the religious chanting of ‘Oh Jeremy Corbyn’ by a few dedicated disciples didn’t translate into votes from the many.
You’re a bit of a joke Andy.
SteveH – 2019 was viewed as another proxy Brexit referendum and you know it. We’d had three years of parliamentary deadlock and Johnson’s pitch was ‘Get Brexit Done’ .
If you voted Brexit in 2016 you were hardly highly unlikely to be voting Labour in 2019. I think Starmer and Watson knew a People’s Vote it’d be a vote destroyer. “We’ve already had a vote.” was the Brexit supporters response.
Why do you Blairites have to make 2019 all about Corbyn, as if Brexit wasn’t on voters’ minds? You lot even to claim credit for 2017’s GE ,when most in the PLP were predicting disaster and Corbyn was left to tour the country making Labour’s pitch alone.
Is there ever a word of protest from Shadow Cabinet members at the ongoing killing of Palestinians in Greater Israel?
See: https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/tamara-nassar/israel-kills-six-palestinians-48-hours
This will explain in part the fall in support for Labour among UK Muslim voters – Arab, Kashmiri, Bengali and Bangladeshi, and Gujuati Indians – to name only the major groups.
Starmer was crowing yesterday about how patriotic he is. How patriotic is it to support Israel, an apartheid State which has its foot soldiers here intent upon underming our democracy?
Whoop! Whoop! — that’s the Sound of the Police!
Whoop! Whoop! — that’s the Sound of the Keith
BRINGJEREMYBACK: 50% (+25)
What really matters to me when it comes to discussing the Party and class is this; what do Jones, that Northern soulboy think.
Interesting reading Starmer supporters on twitter. They are delighted that the party ‘is electable once again’. What they really mean is the middle classes wishes will be forefront. The attempted rehabilitation of Blair and Brown has emboldened them and they see Ellman as a returning hero, her ex constituents might differ but who cares what they think.
I don’t think I’ll be voting again in my lifetime. The only way to be rid of managed democracy is after the next crash and when the housing market implodes. I reckon we might have 20 years of growth on the back of the pretend green new deal so it matters not whether Starmer becomes PM or someone else does.
lundiel – It was the middle class that saved Labour from a complete wipe-out in the 19GE. More of them voted for Labour than did the working class.
It doesn’t matter who voted for Corbyn, stop your silly obsession. You’ve just underlined my point that the middle class decide which party rules.
lundiel – Only if you turn reality on its head. It was the 48% of the working class that voted Tory (as opposed to the 33% that voted Labour) that gave Boris his massive majority. What has it come to when lifelong Labour voters would rather vote for Boris than Corbyn.
You know very well “what it came to”…..Brexit and the party busting people’s vote pushed by Starmer.
Lundiel, Brexit had it’s detrimental affect on Labour for three reasons:
Labour didn’t fight its Remain argument strongly enough in working class areas and allowed Farage, the Sun and the rest of the right wing media to get in there with their racist/jingoistic arguments first. Convincing them they were being ignored and exploited.
A rump on the left typified by Skwawkbox, helped to undermine Corbyn because of their outdated, blinkered view of the EU.
Finally the Israel Lobby exploited the split in Labour whilst at the same time pushing their antiSemitism nonsense against Labour and Corbyn.
Jack – The central point is that Corbyn’s prevarication hiding behind ‘constructive ambiguity for month after bloody month lost us both remain and leave votes. by the time he’d finished pissing all over his own USP then neither side trusted him. The party was overwhelmingly in favour of Remain so Corbyn’s fence sitting was very badly judged and served no useful purpose.
Take a look at this chart, maybe we could have won in 2019 if Jeremy hadn’t pissed about for so long.
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/28340/How%20Britain%20voted%202019%202017%20vote%20sankey%20v2-01.png
SteveH, I’ve already said as much on many occasions, including when I said. he triangulated because he was torn between the left and the anti EU left.
Jack – I’m not disputing that. It is not the first time we have agreed about something. It is bound to happen every now and then. 😃
Starmer has no political nous, saying Blair was a winner and trying to emulate him shows he is a fool, Most people think of Blair as the most hated man in British political history, and a war criminal, taking the UK to illegal war against Iraq, resulting in the deaths of up to 1 million Iraqis and hundreds of UK servicemen, most people revile Tony Blair and quite rightly call him a war criminal, it beggars belief that Starmer praises him and follow in his footsteps.
Harry – I don’t recall Keir Starmer mentioning Tony Blair in his speech. He was rightly celebrating the achievements of a previous Labour government and highlighting the real differences that Labour bing in power can make to peoples lives
correction – the real differences that Labour being in power can make to peoples lives
SteveH
Your thoughts on Temporary Embarrassment calling Baby Trump a Tool in his speech
Doug – It is not something I’ve given much thought to. Why are you so concerned about it?
Starmer heaps praise on ‘winner’ Tony Blair’ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10044905/Starmer-heaps-praise-winner-Tony-Blair-defies-Corbynites.html
Harry – Surely that is their editorial interpretation not what he actually said. Please feel free to check for yourself
https://labourlist.org/2021/09/we-can-win-the-next-election-keir-starmers-labour-conference-speech/
Mini me calling Baby Trump a Tool is like watching two bald blokes fighting over a comb
One is a Liar and Charlatan
The other is a Charlatan and a Liar
Now who moves against him first the RW or the LW
Doug – Neither, the RW because they are not stupid and the LW because they don’t have either the numbers or a credible candidate.
SteveH
RW not stupid
Hands up who voted for Temporary Embarrassment
What’s important is, he’s trying to sell the public a return to New Labour policies and economics. Time has moved on and I don’t see an appetite to return to either.
lundiel – Thanks for sharing your own interpretation and confirming that my 4:13pm post was accurate.
I am not a fan of SteveHs posts but he has an important point. Who is the voice of the Socialist left. I remember the MStar being effusive in it’s praise of Lennard and how that will lead to a Labour revival in Scotland. Slapped by the abusers in the SNP. If we can’t smash that appalling, authoritarian bunch of pervs then times are dire. Who does lead the left? Doesn’t this question merit some thought?
Big ruling today on Mark Kennedy, an undercover officer who infiltrated leftwing groups for seven years. Of Kate Wilson, an environmental activist deceived into a nearly two-year relationship:
The judges said she had uncovered a “formidable list” of human rights violations, adding that supervision of the covert operation was “fatally flawed”, could not be justified as necessary in a democratic society, and was characterised by “disturbing and lamentable failings at the most fundamental levels”.
Hear! hear!
Time to step down Keith, and take all those dodgy impostor, right-wing PLP MPs with you. We want our democracy back.
Andy – I’m guessing this is why Keir thought that undercover operations needed to be regulated in law rather than relying on the ad-hoc and unaccountable systems that have so obviously failed us.
If Keith’s the plant many suspect, it probably goes a bit higher than the Met police.
Read investigative journalist Matt Kennard’s well-researched piece and his five questions for Starmer.
Andy – A neat attempt at distraction but do you agree or not that undercover operations should be governed and regulated in law or should we just leave it to police officers to make up the rules on the hoof to fit the circumstances as they see fit.
If he’s serious, yes. But is he?
Look at his record : whipping his party to support the controversial Covert Human Intelligence Sources (CHIS) Bill, aka “Spy Cops” . His support for The Overseas Operations Bill (which some believe risks giving war crimes immunity). His support for greater surveillance powers including bulk collection and datasets on every citizen, when at the CPS and beyond.
His strange decisions at the CPS including over Assange(the CPS said it lost the email exchanges with Sweden) ; failure to prosecute Sir Jimmy Savile, his close relationship with MI5 and his dropping of the torture case against MI6. The Ian Tomlinson justice campaign.
Starmer is great, … if you’re a member of the establishment wanting to clear your name.
Does anyone else think Steve H has lost the plot this afternoon?
No, no, I mean, more than usual.
George Peel – Tbf, defending the Starmer shitshow must be pretty exhausting.
There you are thinking Starmer’s ‘focus of a toolmaker’ speech will have wowed the sheeple back into New labour penn, and along come a bunch of Skawky comments, united in their belief that his Dear leader’s speech was complete bollocks.
Andy – All I’ve done is succinctly point out what should have been obvious to everyone. If you have a problem with that and feel compelled to write essays then that is your problem not mine.
I think that you are probably correct.
We seem to have a resurfacing of the divide and rule nonsense that wants to define white collar workers as being middle class. Identity politics rubbish designed to set sister against brother in the interests of the ruling class.
Exactly. I remember” hand and brain”, being a party’s phrase on it’s membership card.
I’m afraid well see more of it now he lives in the Carribbean, he’s got nothing else to do but read right wing news and troll us.
Is pointing out the obvious trolling?
Yep. He sure has!!
Greg – Thanks for your ‘valuable’ contribution. 🙄
The truth about Starmer, who is clearly a nasty piece of work, is that his personality is of little importance. His problem is that he is a Blairite with policies and strategies that are outdated and irrelevant. Blairism offers no answers to the problems of our day. It has nothing to say to working people who are beginning to understand why their ancestors built Trade Unions and developed socialist policies.
Two current crises underline the cloth eared stupidity of the Blairites, the Rip van Winkles of politics who have been asleep for the past twenty years. The first is the collapse of privatisation into the scam that it always was- and this is nowhere clearer than in the areas of housing, where rents have become unbearable (see recent Berlin’s referendum for evidence of that) and the utilities. The NHS is collapsing too, just as the neoliberals wanted it to, at the worst possible time. The cost of power is out of control.
After decades of bad mouthing ‘nationalisation’ the public is finally seeing why it was needed in the first place.
In terms of domestic policies Blairism has nothing to offer.
And that is equally true of its Foreign Policy- the idiocy of imperialism without an empire, automatic support for the incompetent sadists who run the USA and Israel, expressed in 100% support for every atrocity they perpetrate and enormous expenditures on weapons whose main purpose is to provide profits for capitalists.
Idd.
Starmer represents a return to Labour supporting neoliberal economic policies and neocon foreign policy.
He’s more ‘establishment’ than Johnson in many ways. Probably why the centre-right columnists have been so quiet about him breaking all his promises.
Bevin – This is what Keir had to say about the Iraq war at the time
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/mar/17/foreignpolicy.iraq1
Doesn’t matter what he said then, now that he’s come out for NATO and the “humanitarian intervention” myth, now that he’s made the antiwar movement totally unwelcome and brought Mandelson and Campbell back, now that Nandy is Shadow Perpetual War spokesperson.
The US Neo-Cons are good at getting their Right Wing puppets in around the World, and with the Neo -Liberal capitalist promoting Trilateral Commission perhaps they have just landed one in Labour?
Just read Oliver Eagleton re Starmer on Novara Media (2/3/21) and it is claimed as DPP Mr S went to another country where a suspect was being tortured, so did the human rights lawyer try to stop this?
No it is claimed all he was concerned about was getting the information he wanted?
That’s one life he didn’t change.
Read it and weep.
Not fit to clean Corbyn’s boots!
Starmer is stonger!
Cheers for the pic Skwawkie, always makes me chuckle