Attempts to rig Labour systems in favour of unelectable right were even bigger than already clear, according to parry sources
Keir Starmer’s assault on Labour party democracy included an attempt to switch the threshold for a leadership challenge to half or more of Labour MPs backing a challenger, Skwawkbox can reveal.
Current rules require 20% of MPs to nominate a would-be challenger to trigger a contest, but Starmer and his allies tried to raise it to more than half, which on Labour’s current numbers in Parliament would mean more than a hundred.
Even if more than a hundred MPs were unhappy with the party’s leader they would almost never Unite behind a single challenger, so this would have amounted to making the leader unchallenged unchallengeable.
Such is the extent of Starmer’s unpleasant mix of Insecurity and arrogance.
However, his minions backed down during discussions with the Labour-union liaison group TULO after it became clear what kind of reaction it would get, in the hope they might still get enough backing to push through a move to Rob party members of a meaningful say in leadership elections – and for changes to party rules to make Starmer’s sidekick David Evans judge and jury over members’ right to be in the party.
Labour has already been desperately purging party delegates in the hope of getting these rule changes through.
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Does this mean TULU will accept the rest of the rule change?
Probably.
i BELIEVE in FAIRNESS! courage!! & TRUTH!!! Angela Raynor is NAILING PMQ’sā¼ļø Whacking Blue Tories straight over the boundary SMASHING GELL out of SIR starmer’s SH bollard head ā¼ļøā¼ļø
Yes she failed 2 use her ability to DEFEND Jeremy + bring out his BEST self + plug deficienciesā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø
But fair is fair, Ms Rayner! BE DECENT!! U show u have what’s neededā ā ā
There’s more rejoicing in Heaven 4 sinners who repent!!! PLEASE Please please Ms Rayner, STAND up 4 TRUTH! stand UP 4 JUSTICE!! STAND UP 4 TRUE labour!!!
I definitely thought highly of until u joined the treacherous lot. BETRAYAL of TRUE Labour. Your ability was crystal clear 2 me when u first appeared, but created suspicion PRECISELY coinciding with your mackiage makeover.
REPENT u r needed!!! BRILLIANT
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ps i challenge ANY of the MSM to disagree with my INDEPENDENT & HONEST judgement / appraisal … as always, if i may say so myselfāŗļøāŗļøāŗļø
AGHEAD of the CURVE !!!
SteveH
My arse
The following is signposts ‘output’ on here yesterday, followed by his ‘output’ in just one thread the day before. I’m not suggesting anyone read it all, but just scroll through it at normal speed so as to get an idea of the quantity of it. And it’s more-or-less the same every single day:
Thatās the type we r told to āunify withā āwork withā 4 something they call āa LABOUR governmentā
Anyone PLEASE explain that if not LOW expectations, ZERO self worth, ZERO TRUE confidence of beliefs.
I challenge ANYONE to explain the inconsistency / incoherence / confusion, and most of all the āSURPRISEā at the experienced, who have stated up to these last 24hrs that they are now seeing what was OBVIOUS four years ago.
HOW??? And HOW were these people voted in to CLP posts etc.
THEY try STILL to silence FACTS while admitting they did not see it coming ???
WHO then are āF***** cluelessā according to The Toffee???
How can the clueless so effortlessly out smart the clued up???
Not to mention MILLIONS of POSITIVE, NON murderous jobs which need doing.
The jobs mantra is an obscene lieā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø Plus why not fund more clinical jobs rather than keep people OVERWORKED and some GROSSLY underpaid??? BtW we DONT need the bloated GROSSLY OVERPAID NHS vulturesā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø
Further more, many other countries next door to us, Year after year, decade after decade surpass our life satisfaction WITHOUT feeding the Military Industrial Complex as we do.
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No wonder, I sensed another nasty was about to land. McDonnell sounded deflated / embarrassed yesterday.
š£š”āļøš£š”āļøš£š”
Malcolm Coleman aka Allan Howard aka AHsā Smartbut, you all r not satisfied with your stunning success misguiding Jeremy + bringing āthe Leftā to this PREDICTED by me on Skwawkbox.org dreadful stateāļøāļøāļø
U promised 2 āresign immediatelyā
GO NOWā¼ļøā¼ļø
The plan is SPECIFICALLY to ensure a āStarmer Mark2ā when starmer fails. Spun as āto prevent another Jeremy Corbyn who CAME FROM NOWHEREā
āļøšµš”āļøšµš”āļøšµš”
= so Mandelson or Blair can return
EASILY predictable, predicted from the time he was given a shadow cabinet post. More when the opportunity was not taken to ditch him after starmerās first coup.
MORE after AGAIN re invited after starmerās 2nd coup.
ābad Bad BAD newsā i posted right here on Skwawkbox.org. Despite attacks from RH, the boatnan, White Flag Men Malcolm Coleman aka Allan Howard and a few sleepers who suddenly came to Colemanās aid, and a few who popped up and vanished.
But surely if we cant rebut verbal and written āattacksā, then what use r we to MILLIONS who face beatings, bashings, rape as a weapon and DEATHāļøāļøāļø
I never call 4 people 2 be silenced. Silencers should ALWAYS make one alert. Anyone FUMING at others 4 trying something when the FUMING spouters failed over SIXTY YEARS is beyond odd. BASICā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø
Anyone who shrieks at comparatively NEW members to do what the SHRIEKERS failed to do, is rude and odd.
Anyone who patrols round the clock accusing others of patrolling round the clock is obviously trying to silence. And that behaviour is more bizarre since they repeatedly say ALL IS NO POINT, hopeless, nothing worth it etc yet scream and shriek with full energy.
QUESTION what could be their aim if nothing can change & we have no choice, yet the CHOOSE 2 shriek telling us dont try.āāā
I advise. PAUSE. Put down the books with ideas u already agree. Take break from the people with whom u always moan & whine. Do something different. Pause and assess. Quite basic.
Anyone surprised by starmerās doings should ask whyā
How were they so easily hoodwinked by a ācluelessā person, an āidiotā, ādont know what heās doingāā
What type of person craves repeated whiningā
āļøš£āļøāļøš£āļøāļøš£
qwertboi ā CONTRARY to MSM HOGWASH, parroted by many if even āironicallyā, the RIGHT Milliband LOSTā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø
IRONY is OVERRATED
š“āļøš”š“āļøš”š“āļø
Smartbut ā āstupidity of the Right.ā āāā
No way. U & your team Malcolm Coleman aka Allan Howard PRETEND White Flag AH shaggers, are DEFINITELY not stupid. You all stitched up my āLeftā seniors + more experienced by DECADES, like kippers DESPERATE 2 b stitched up, they used everything they had to MAKE the thread then stitch themselves. Donāt use false modesty. U know u Right are GENIUSES and FEARLESSā¦ except of the āFilthy Rich.ā
Uāve won. U fooled ENOUGH people to cause this disaster. U all deserve your champaign & laughter. Hope u choke on both. STILL u work NON STOP + BOLDLY. No hiding.
We the āLeftā have truth on our side, but iām mystified why my sincere lot refuse 2 copy your BOLDNESS & FOCUSED hard work.
I live in hope
š¦šāļøš¦šāļøš¦šāļø
Andy WOW ā āSharon Grahamās Unite election win NOW looks increasingly significantā ā¦ āNOWā???
Honesty is vital especially in the state weāre in. So thanks. SHARON GRAHAM struck within fifteen minutes as EXACTLY what we needed at least since 2015. Iām deeply surprised by PERFECTLY capable people being surprised by SIR starmer + only now REACTING 2 the SUPER SIGNIFICANT victory of Sharon Graham. Andy; VITAL 2 understand why so much genuine surprise + slow realisation of importance of such CRUCIAL matters.
ALSO always spot silencers of views. Ask WHY? Is whining productive? No. We have results to prove that. Have the silencers ever silenced whiners & hopelessness sprayers & POLICERS making sure we remain helpless? No. BASIC OBVIOUS FACTS warning signs? Yet how come unrecognised for fifty sixty years? Also unrecognised by those fixated on EXTERNAL conspiracies but blind to it right under their eyes. Wow & why?
WHY? an EXTREMELY useful question. HOW have successful people like Sharon Graham ACHIEVED success WITHOUT any of forces people r obsessed byāDitto Jeremy ācoming from nowhereā and crushing TWO coups by INCREASED margins?
WHY after EVERY recent success eg by Jo Bird, Banard + Sharon Graham, a few in particular to date have REFUSED to EVER utter a single word of joy? Thats obviously odd. No?
WHY some who acknowledged those successes, IMMEDIATELY followed with a āBUTā a negative, a DOOM comment, without a POSITIVE preemptive strike against our CLEAR enemiesā Thatās not due 2 ill will. Thatās culture / attitude. A defeatist culture. A defeatist attitude. Thatās not odd.
At sports matches, people may scream do this! do that! Go go GO!!!
FULL of URGENCY & suggestions. WILD celebration when your side scores.
QUESTION ā Who wants āsupportersā SHREIKING ā DONT BOTHERā¼ļø No pointā¼ļø Youāll never winā¼ļø X is not concentrating but donāt say; thatās not niceā¼ļø Blast! X missed an open goal. Donāt say; THATS ā¼ļø NOT ā¼ļøNICEā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø Who sees a āsupporterā like that and feels ā YAAAAAY exactly what we need . . .
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Wobbly if we spent less time psychoanalysing Mandelsonās lot like SIR starmer, and had ādeep psychoanalysisā OURSELVES, this would DISASTER would NEVER have happened so easily.
āInsaneā is DOING the SAME throughout thirty, Forty, FIFTY, nearly SIXTY years to date ā¦ SIX ZEROā¦ 60 ā¦ 6ļøā£0ļøā£
6ļøā£āļøš YEARS ā¦ SIX DECADES
of the SAME failed attitudes & culture, by our seniors by age & experience, yet expecting a better result.
Now Wobbly, THATās āseriousā
šš”āļøšš”āļøšš”
Tony Greenstein!!! Thanks 4 that reminder. His name always slips. Was he one of the THOUSANDS kicked under, then abandoned under SIR starmerās coup plottersā bus fleet āāā ā¦ maybe not.
Marc Wadsworth is often in mind as he never got even a phone call after ā¦ a friendship / comradeship / solidarity of DECADESā¦ at least four i think.
Ken Livingstone tooā¦ and George Galloway who defended Jeremy weekly on his Mother of All Talk Showsā¦ doubt i missed an episode even when abroad, nor Ken Livingstoneās prog Ä David Mellor for years. Ken often turned up to defend Jeremy too after his prig ended. He and George were attacked ceaselessly in every wayā¦ death threatsā¦ physical assaults. Theyāre still going strong and look as fit and radiant as Jeremy looks. Of course two thousand approx less known devoted members were also kicked under every bus and tank parasites sent to crush Jeremyās most able and devoted defenders. ā¦ and of course Chris Williamson. None in that catalogue of betrayals were meant to be indecent nor integrity free though. Thatās for sure. And the pushing and abandonment was not done alone. The deeds were done in solidarity, with comradesā¦ to comrades, with to date silent consent / approval of Smartbut aka Smartboy ā Malcolm Colemanās team aka Allan Howard the AH the PRETEND White Flag Shagger. Superb operation. BUT
Kicking under buses + kindness & gentleness to every single TWatson of Hodge was pure indecent cowardice with consequent integrity of betrayal ā¦ as in UNIFIED betrayalā¦ SOUND betrayal ā¦ solid through and throughā¦ opposite interpretations of āDECENCYā and āIntegrityā never occurred to manyā¦ We live and learn.
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tcliverpool ā ā I donāt know WTF they do work for.ā
ANSWER: They neither work for u, me nor any of the manyš£
Read those even on skwawkbox.org. Engagedā¦ involved for DECADES controls the āLeftā. They claim vast experience, smartness, education + āknowing the rule bookā inside out (approx quote: memory) YET to date TOTALLY outwitted, p***** on by the Right Wing. Yet same individuals, dripping sterility cant bring themselves to say even a hint of slightest joy that Barnard or Sharon Graham have in one go SMASHED several of their parroted myths. Think of that. WHY? Because without realising it, i they have rotted from the inside to leave only a woeful self pleasuring self indulgent clique. Their PRIORITY is a desperation to be treated treated as great holes of virtue and mountains of multi recycled news paper with definitions and theories to impress each other with not the slightest interest in implementation / application. They want nothing more than a social club Kim Jung Un style. Animal Farm stuff, a dictatorship to keep their whining moaning fest going for another seventy years or however long theyāve been at it. Imagine caring so little about the people who desperately need reap change rather than a few crumbs and useless speeches to those who already agree for FIFTY NINE YEARS plusā¦ just focus on that.
It MUST END!!! That type must be GONE!!! We need people in every position in the unions and the party who realise the people made it clear. They want WE want BASIC FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES RIGHT HERE TIGHT NOW!!! Not with obvious parasites like Starmer. Speaking of which, heard McDonnell again today and thought, he is one of those who DELIBERATELY discouraged Jeremy from turning up to the general public, yet by comparison he has been on quite frequently trying to promote himself. Many many years ago i heard a prominent person who knows him well describe him as treacherous. I got the impression today that McDonell knows heās been found out. Quite obvious, why has he turned up quite regularly yet NEVER properly defended the Left as Chris Williamson ALWAYS did??? Funny that.
The only way to make such dross that created this mess is to be frank straightforward. The party is not a comfy bucket for damp worn out dish cloths. Believe me, iām mincing my words iām sick and tired of the types who admit theyāve been doing what theyāve been doing for decades, SEE us being made to look like idiots by DIP STICK Starmer & gang of all people, yet their main concern is preserving CULT culture and whining about the inevitable stitch ups. The stitch ups will continue, until they r gone!!! Bet your last pence, the same whiners will remain the BIGGEST OBSTACLES to ending the mess.
šššā ļøšššā ļøšššā ļø
NVLA, They work 4 anyone anywhere no matter what they r called, āFilthy Richā or wannabes.
Apple, Google, Starbucks, WeWork, Uber, Samsung, Amazon ā¦ werenāt always BIG. Some started in a garage with ONE or two people.
Chumocracy plundering Covid-19 include Hancockās pub landlord, sister, a jewellery designer in Miami, but from somewhere elseā¦
Maybe one day āoligarchsā āTrilateralsā āBilderbergsā āIlluminatiā. A bandit by any other name is still as base.
A tax evading vulture is still as vile.
A Tory SIR starmer USING Labour, is still a Tory USING Labour.
A parasite by any other name is still a parasite.
āļøšāļøšāļø
peej1952, in both GE2017 AND GE2019, EVEN with the insulting āConstructive Ambiguityā c**p, if the results only considered under 35ās and under 38ās IN WORK, TRUE Labour with Jeremy in office would have won. That conclusion is shared by Hillary Wainwright. Other statisticians may confirm. But from memory, it is officialā¦ including the āIN WORKā bit.
Contradictory to MSM spin regurgitated by those who CORRECTLY despise it.
BUT if Jeremy had turned up to the GENERAL public, NOT bunker rallies, and DEFENDED his long held position as indicated by ALL his votes, then with the wave of PROFOUND enthusiasm, if he had argued You voted for me, THIS is part of meā¼ļø My beliefs are FRAMED by this. Iām in great company with Clement Atlee, Tony Benn etc etc etc EVERYONE would have trusted his ahead of the curve stance and courage. HE would have set the tune. Cameron provide the equipment to quell the strife in his own party. The sensible HONEST thing was to SEIZE it.
Instead we got the most pathetic response nurtured by the White Flag Shaggers and clever infiltrators of forty fifty years encouraging Jeremy to hide except to deliver the claptrap if his enemies āConstructive Ambiguityā. The irritating thing is that all these years later, STILL some refuse to face the obvious. An opportunity to transform this country was EASILY sabotaged by pretend White Flag Shagging bots. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing. Defeating externalities is easier than operators who have lodged themselves as sleepers for forty fifty years. Something to notice, the silencers. Not disagreers, the silencers who patrol 24 hrs yet complain about others. Note too, they only attack those who suggest positive, constructive, or change or celebrating successes.
Spot the pattern. Whine and moan till the cows come hope? They sit back and open another bottle of champagne and laugh their heads off.
NEVER be intimidated by tossers. Thatās what they are
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Nemtona, Yesā ā ā
ESSENCE of that was posted YEARS ago right here on Skwawkbox.org
Was plainly obvious. Also Theresa May & MANY other Tories incl Mandelson Blair Twatson Adonis Dance etc kept phone lines, WhatsApp (etc), Eurostar FIRST CLASS seats & BA HOT with FREQUENT useā¦ to & fro Brussels plotting with EU fixers movers & shakers UNDERMINING a DEMOCRATIC vote. Despite the same + creature Blair WMD authorising TWO THOUSAND POUND BOMBS to rain down on other countries to bring them ā¦ DEMOCRACYš”
You could not make it up. Yet smart people couldnāt grasp the HUGE hint re the OROVEN nature of the drivers of Remain & āPeopleās Voteā in Labourš”
But stitcher uppers we r told are ācluelessā. Note the ENRAGED silencers of OBVIOUS FACTS. Theyāre mainly admitters āsurpriseā at whatās happening now. Despite shrieking when it was being explained.
Note language: approx ā āit is now being made clear what Starmer is doingāā¦ despite SHRIEKING āshillā and other weird rubbish when exactly that was presented AGEAD of the curveš”
LOGIC: WHO was pin point ACCURATE and who WERE completely āCLUELESSā? We canāt improve with them playing ANY PART. One of the worst promised to resign if things get worst. They wonāt. Theyāve been obviously planted 4 years!!! Iāve met them in my āLEFTā CLP. The plants r NOT the obvious NASTIES ie Tories USING the Labour brand. The PLANTS r only a few. In my LEFT CLP i suspect only FOUR. And thatās in a VERY large CLP. The pattern is easy to spot. U can see their displeasure at our successes. The come ALIVE ONLY to DEMAND we water down motions to be as timid, vague and useless as possible. They try to silence ONLY suggestions. NEVER whining, moaning and useless commentary AFTER eventsā¦
Sounds familiar? Seen the type ?? Met the type ??? read the type ā¦
Note too the SILENCERS and those to date who have NEVER suggested WHAT needs to be done.
Statements after the eventā¦ BEHIND the curve are just that .. TOO LATE. Even then note well NOT a single suggestion of what needs to be done.
But Nemtona, the clincher is this; i leave it to you & others to ask certain individuals: express APPROPRIATELY fulsome congratulations to Jo Bird, Marc Wadsworth, Barnard and especially Sharon Graham. They cannot stand that. Why? Because TANGIBLE positives must be SILENCED. How come ? Odd no ?
Well Nemtona, off the top of my head this very minute 12:53 Tuesday 21 September 2021, This gold standard test / ASSAY / quantitative & qualitative analysis ā appropriate LITMUS TEST:
šµš“šµš“šµš“
1ļøā£ ā Ask the OBVIOUS suspects to rank THREE main reasons why Jo Bird, Marc Wadsworth, Barnard and Sharon Graham achieved victories DESPITE being attacked and at GREATER RISK of attacks now that SIR starmerās coup plotters r FULLY in charge?
2ļøā£ ā Ask the OBVIOUS suspects: Justify the failure to support in TANGIBLE SUSTAINED ways, the above individuals AND Chris Williamson.
I rest my case.
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Malcolm Coleman aka Allan Howard aka AHsā Smartbut, you all r not satisfied with your stunning success misguiding Jeremy + bringing āthe Leftā to this PREDICTED by me on Skwawkbox.org dreadful stateāļøāļøāļø
U promised 2 āresign immediatelyā
GO NOWā¼ļøā¼ļø
By āWEā The Toffee, i was being less āTutonicā + recognising the COLLECTIVE nature of ALL human enterprises especially SOCIALIST ones. The ācluesā r in the words. Two more ācomradeā & āsolidarityā.
ONE individual does not normally express being a ācomradeāof, nor āin solidarityā with themselvesā¦ unless in some farcical comedy.
But the Teutons do well by it, so just 4 u; āF***** cluelessā Keith, outsmarted āSMARTā ācleverā ādeviousā āwell educatedā well read, Thornberry, Gardner, McCluskey, and ālegitimateā ādeviousā and āCRAFTYā McDonnell ā¦ by implication, would u say CLUED UP . . .
ššš”ššš”ššš”
tcliverpool we had ample opportunities to have a say: eg Open Selection, Pausing the Deputy Leader position as the incumbent collaborated with the plotters of TWO coups, the Internal report documenting SERIOUS wrongdoing over FOUR WHOLE years, was DELIBERATELY hidden from us until Starmer was able to deceive enough members (not me), McNicoll was made s Lord and TWatson offered one
WHAT were the consequences of EACH of those choicesāāā
You say ālast strawā and ālunaticā etc Your anger and frustration is TOTALLY justified.
McDonell said approx TWO months ago that āJeremy would be back in a flash if the Whip was restoredāā
Someone posted an update inline with that. i.e. If Jeremy were restored the Whip then we could all āunifyā with that Party.
What exactly is Jeremy hoping to do if allowed to join the company he cravesā
It is a tragedy from every angle, and the most painful part? It could have been easily avoided. It was ALLOWED to happen. Warnings of the obvious were condemned right here on skwawkbox.org. People seemed content to whine as if somehow the OBVIOUS problems would disappear.
At each point, eg even the 2017 result, i detected that ALL highest command + lower levels, (infiltrated by a handful of EFFECTIVE agent provocateurs, helplessness & doom mongers) those who hog control really believed that the near win would āconvertā those who made their hatred plain. I think that partly explains the nonstop comfort readingā¦ displacement, passing time, avoiding challenge EVEN in reading.
The problem is bigger than i thought. The solution might be a new party, not as a means to get rid of the parasites, as they could have been ditched in a straight forward way when we had INFINITELY more than needed. A new party would be to start from scratch TOTALLY WITHOUT those who gave Starmer the controls. That includes ALL the appeasers at the CLP level too. It is illogical to start a party with the causes of the mess. The keep head downers, those who feel strange barely relevant stuff more important than policies; those who feel a thousand excellent policies are better than ten excellent ones to start withā¦
FACT ā with a manifest BURSTING, a big wig from GMB was too ābusyā to attend CRUCIAL meetings, because they were āwriting policiesā. MORE policies. Lovely lovely person, but even as a newbie, that screamed a failure to grasp basics. We have sound policies to last a generation. But that indicated detachment from reality. A Left who r so completely alienated from reality, they prefer to construct a theoretical world of polite discussion.
After a postmortem NOT in my Left CLPā¦ luckily i chose to miss that, a very committed person ALSO from my CLP (unplanned. thought they looked familiar so we started chatting) They never managed to read all of it. āItās still in my bagā they said.
The basics were TOTALLY ignored by the high command. EVERYTHING is internal facing . Want to care about āthe manyā but stopped caring in a TANGIBLE application EFFECTIVE way. Stopped respecting āthe manyā DECADES b4 that. Not through being bad, but being EXTREMELY bad at self assessment. Many of us concluded DECADES ago that they are rightā¦ and they are right that they are rightā¦ and thatās enough 4 them. They have the luxury of life being an interminable lower sixth politics/sociology / economics class. Why do physics or chemistry too, when u can talk about things which needs no results? niceā¦
Make a living getting nothing done ā¦ nice & cosyā¦saving no oneā¦ wellā¦someone else will do thatā¦
Many on the āLeftā want life to be like that ā¦ fizz at clever sterile terms to describe obvious IDEAS with which we already agree ā¦ nothing about how WE MUST implement the ideasā¦ just whine about all the externalities to blameā¦.
Listen you can feel the satisfaction of many whoāve rread what they already knew ā¦ nice, cosy, intellectually lazy
āļøš§š„āļøš§š„āļøš§š„
George Peel, sheās urging them. I doubt they will stand up and speak up. I sensed another nasty was brewing as McDonnell sounded deflated / embarrassed yesterday, quite subtle, in fact i posted promptly yesterday that he realised he was rumbled.
Think not watching a speaker heightens oneās senses even to subtle language & voice clues. (Hence i rejoice resisting TV, because i know iām weak. Can resist 4 two weeks with access to one, then totally captured by cash in the attic, HIGNFY, Anyiques Roadshow, any nature documentary, anything with architecture. Know my weakness so PREVENT capture.
Anyway IF any SCG whispers up, EXPECT the limpest stuff imaginable. They mean well but theyāve been swallowed up by the timid culture. They were afraid when we had MORE than EVERYTHING needed. Theyāre PETRIFIED now. Starmerās gang of coup plotters with MUCH VENOM REPEATEDLY publicised their plans. Thereās no excuse 4 not knowing. Coyle was the nastiest. Frequent but not as often as Ashworth, Streeting Ummuna, Smeeth Hodge, Harman, TWatson, WMDās advisor (from Australia i think) and WMDās ex flatmate; Blunket, Beckett & Straw for example. Curious but initiallyā¦ right up to the point Jeremy danced to the tunes of others, collapsed on the floor and slinked away. Possibly hoping LORD Twatson would intercede with the parasites he wants to āunify and work with 4 a LABOUR government.ā
But NONE by an infinite margin, got as many appearances as Berger. TOTALLY fawning hosts, who did the classic propaganda MEDIA ploy of trailing what the person would say. Trailing it again when they appear, then ask them if they got their views accurately b4 hearing the views in public on THAT occasion. Berger would reiterate what they said ā¦. the host would repeat it. They would repeat that for EACH of three or four aims of the appearance. Berger never spat venom like the ever seething Coyle, but she could persuade some who did not check that long b4 Jeremy, 2010 to 2014 she did get REAL & VICIOUS a-S attacks resulting in convictions. ALL from Right Wing Tory types eg Nazi devotees, dressing up as Nazis 4 every party is the bees knees. OBVIOUS Berger would have PROCLAIMED the need 4 security from 2010 to 2014 and her gang would have been campaigning nonstop about stamping out a-S from the Tory Party ā Historical Nest of Racist in general and Bigots in generalā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø
But they didnāt, and this one of several OBVIOUS rebuttals to the politically motivated a-S claims were NEVER presented. Why? Because those in charge hoped problems will just vanish. And in any case, up mount Zen behind tbe clouds, there are ZERO problems.
STILL 4 clarity NONE of that DIRECTLY delivered the result Mandelson admitted āworking night and dayā for. REMAIN & āPeopleās Voteā did it, SHARPENED by āConstructive Ambiguity.ā
The only part the politically motivated a-S campaign played, was to ensure Jeremy would act according to nature and HIDE. With NONE around him to advise DONT HIDE. Those attacking are already attacking. LOGIC they have their aim. They wont stop.
Thatās why, UNELECTED, wildly misnamed & deliberately UNREPRESENTATIVE / UNDEMOCRATIC BOD, CAA, LFI, and āChronicleā i.e. the DOSSIER concocters for Operation āSTOP CORBYNā repeatedly publicised their demands 4 meetings WITH CONDITIONS. But though Jeremy by APPEASING nature (made infinitely self destructive by the āadviceā of McCluskey, Gardner and McDonnell) REPEATEDLY CLEARED his diaries to accommodate them, At EACH invitation the concocted more unreasonable āconditionsā and refused to meet. NONE of that was ever presented by the APPEASEMENT brigade. Repeated failures never prompted then to act like adults instead of timorous mice.
Not helped by determined cultist shrine erectors distressed by their chronic impotence. The shrines r built on tbe most confused fog, so obviously collapse. Hence the result we see āF***** clulelessā starmer NOW beating able to do EXACTLY as i heard his conspirators PUBLICISE over and over again SINCE 2015. Around 2017 very early one morning, possibly a Sunday; one MSM conspirator said PUBLICLY approximately āWE tried EVERYTHING so far; IRA, Meeting with Terrorist etc NOTHING seems to workā.
Must see if i noted that somewhere.
BtW Alexander of Piffle was questioned and admitted early this morning in New York that he has SIX children.
ALSO ā Harry Dunnās parents have reached a successful CIVIL settlement with his killer.
May he Rest in Peace. Every good wish to his family. EVERY bit of success at justice should be celebrated. And we should STUDY and REPLICATE the KEY elements which brought the success. One is NEVER give up!!!
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AND THEN THERE WAS *THIS* IN JUST ONE THREAD the day before:
Thank GOODNESS Unite broke free of OLD BACK ROOM āBugginās turnā mindset / attitude / culture that EXCLUDES āthe manyā. They r status quo guardians BIG TIME!!! Uāve been taken 4 fools with ānowhere else to goā.
Set in their farcical DECEITFUL ways, they thought nothing of IGNORING āthe manyā.
Sharon Graham ignored habitual ignorers, like McCluskey, Landsman, McDonnell etc. Instead she mixed with āthe manyā, RESPECTED our views and DEFEATED ALL the known names with their omnipotentš¤£ ingredients 4 victoryš BLIND to facts under their noses over & over again, taken in by OBVIOUS infiltrators who cant stand giving even one tiny word of congratulations to those who PROVE their 24hr campaign to keep hopelessness going A BIG LIEš
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Listen! learn!! OUT with CHOOSERS to learn nothing!!!
IN with straightforward BASIC ACTIONS. ZERO deceit! Zero UNNECESSARY deviousness!! ZERO decades of stitch-ups by parasites despite whats laughably called ācraftinessā!!! āCraftinessā by proven deceivers who TOTALLY led Jeremy to squander everything we gained.
Straightforward DITCHing those mesmerised by mould ridden MYTHS held by those who correctly despise the MSM yet regurgitate their vomit eg The Working class donāt want commonness (ridiculously portrayed as āFar Leftā) ā¦ and other such lazy rubbish.
We need THROUGHOUT āthe Leftā,
PURE & SIMPLE straightforward CONFIDENT march FORWARD. Appeasers, defeatist, helplessness doom-mongers and adult indulgent creche habituĆ©s and devotees of complicated rigmarole of ādeviousnessā and honey wasters need NOT apply. These last five years have proven beyond doubt, you mean well but you lack whatās necessary to LEARN new ways. N E W āØāØāØ
Re reading and flocking to tosh with which u already agree is neither ālearningā nor āpolitical educationā. Thatās able people being toe curling DIM WITTEDNESS.
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SPOT the DIFFERENCE: š š§»
THROUGHOUT the obscenely misnamed CAA + BOD + LFI + SIR starmerās coup collaborators including one MP in particular of many who surfed on the PROFOUND enthusiasm 4 our POLICIES, we all heard REPEATED empty demands to meet with Jeremy re their PECULIAR claims.
I know 4 a FACT that Jeremy offered to meet with claimants. I also know 4 a FACT that such meetings were unsurprisingly DECLINED by (possibly others) but ONE complainant in particular. The excuse offered considering the THEATRICS of how afraid that individual claimed 2 be, left their own āFREINDā at a loss for words.
COMPARE & CONTRAST:
Re: Duffield: Duffield and OTHER women have REPEATEDLY begged to meet SIR starmer re anxiety of attending Conference.
SIR has to date been too BUSY to meet them to address their concerns.
P.S. goldbach, re: your earlier request of what was actually said, iām multitasking as ever, so may not have replied earlier. I can confirm Duffield āACTUALLY SAIDā:
š„āpretty unpleasantā THREATS onlineā āin contact with the POLICEā. āWORRY was MAINLY about being TARGETED at the party conferenceā
š„āItās hard to know how serious to take THREATHS by people who post them ONLINE. BUT theyāre pretty AWFUL, and I did not want to subject myself and other people to that kind of ABUSE,ā
š„āIām not imagining theyāre necessarily going to physically harm me, but the kind of levels of VITRIOL is pretty HORRIBLE, and I didnāt feel like I wanted to GO THROUGH THAT, to be honest.ā
š¤To me goldbach, Duffieldsās words above = EVERYTHING about ānot feeling safe.ā
Hope the above extracts address your query.
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dg, i told u b4 over & over NOT YOU!!! Skip past my posts. U claim 2 have been a member 4 decades. U FAILED 2 form a new party despite all uāve seen + your experience, YET u demand others form a new party 4 you??? Quite odd. As odd as Malcolm Coleman aka Smartbut, and his AHs spirting feathers to INSIST ānothing can be doneā. etc
U all have a very impressive operation and have only succeeded so far, because BBC and other TV have successful DIMMED the brains and shortened attention spans to spot even obvious patterns and illogicalities.
DONT read my post, go and at last do what you so far FAILED to doā¦and please take the frauds Smartbut Malcolm Coleman and all White Flag Shaggers with u
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Joseph not Unite. Backroom brigade r sticking to theirācraftinessā as some call it in UNISON. āCraftinessā which & backroom deals which lock u & i and ALL of āthe manyā OUT.
I read someone calling it ālegitimateā.
Some r hooked on subterfuge. They have no respect 4 basic dealings. They mean well but have grown to accept things as given eg ānothing will changeā a ridiculous statement inconsistent with ALL human history right up to this very day. Only a handful (comparatively) of infiltrators have āWORKED Night & Dayā as we can see even here on skwawkbox.org, have BLOCKED any fresh thinking. The culture has NEVER been refreshed. Whatās embarrassing too is the the fact White Flag Shaggers Malcolm Colemans aka Smartbots and AHs have pulled the wool so easy over the eyes of smart people. So smart, yet how many noticed the car crash of WFMās account of leaving an elderly man on a toilet floor at the mercy of BULLIES āto finish drinks with a friendā. So smart they not clocked the fact the WFMs & Smartbot canāt even bring themselves to congratulate the successes of Barnard, Jo Bird, Marc Wadsworth, and of course Sharon Graham. To straightforward for āsmartā āeducatedā people. They prefer complicated convoluted ādeviousā ācraftinessā which has brought repeated easy stitch ups by our opposites.
Things change when we MAKE them change
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Dear Joseph, PLEASE āsettleā your āblood pressure and getā your āhead on straight.ā HEALTH COMES FIRST.
Yes, SIR starmerās deceitful devious gang r extremely *#%*#. DELIBERATE plan to make us leave party assets including infrastructure, name recognition, administrative reach etc and ATTRACTIVE ish packaging increasingly soiled by them, FOR them. Quite OBVIOUS.
To defeat them, wether still a member or not, be the fittest and āwell itsā we can be!!!
Iām positive uāll b able 2 scan their devious shenanigans on skwawkbox.org and Red Pepper.
ENJOY your Island hopping. Iāve not been to that part of the worldā¦ flew over to Australiaš, but my dearest friends & relatives LOVE itā¦ in fact canāt stop raving about diverse uplifting + restorative delights!!! One best friend said theyād write a book + start learning a new profession during a year in Vietnam. Exactly as said (as always), ditched extremely lucrative high powered job, -> Vietnam + achieved MORE than planned. Wonāt name of course, lest sinister infiltrators tooling SUCCESSFULLY 4 toxic parasites do nastiness. (U know who š¤£š¤£š¤£)
P.S. needs repeating: ALL is plundering more + more power + filthy riches. Thus a sinister outfit operating from stolen Palestinian lands, caused last weeksās URGENT iOS security update being rushed outā¼ļø Theyāve been bugging everyone everywhere rich & poor, Zionist & Non Zionist alike.
A KEY weakness of too many of us, is; bizarre fixation on externalities. They r indeed powerful but NOT omnipotent. Their power grows DIRECTLY due to those who do have good brains, draining their bandwidths being mesmerised by subterfuge, academic theory and definitions. At school we had Additional maths and APPLIED maths, Physics and APPLIED physics etc. Over last several months, it has become clear, we āLeftā r repelled by any APPLIED bit of every subject.
When the vultures in & out of Labour announce more public purse ribbing scheme, our lot savour the opportunity to show off their theoretical knowledge to each other, rather than counter the Right Wing tosh by rebutting in the GENERAL public. And EMBARRASSINGLY believe the parasites r making a āmistakeā an āerrorā etc, when it is over obvious they r doing as they planned. AND have ALWAYS done. WHY? I suspect an intellectual constipationā¦ bunged up to eyes and ears!!! We r made a laughing stock!!!
Grace Blakey and another marvellous ladyā¦ name slips, will come to me as weāve met, they ā¦ AH!!! Hillary Wainwright, they almost NEVER speak to an EASILY available WIDEST audience. They have basic data info & knowledge at their finger tips. Sadly they too pump out lazy whining about the media. When Blakey turns up, an EXTREMELY rare event, on appropriate programs, iāve ALWAYS heard her get an EXCELLENT hearing. Ditto Hillary Wainwright, Jeremy, Butler, McCluskey and as Sharon Graham got. Dittoā¦ must mince my wordsā¦ the absolutely DREADFUL Thornberry Gardner & McDonnell.
The only person who is often bullied, is Dianne Abbott. Yet despite being attacked more than ANYONE else, STILL Dianne turns up. How??? After FORTY YEARS plus of attacks she STILL turns up and NEVER whines like some pathetic delicate victimā¦ HOWāļøāļøāļø Yet grown men r meant 2 b treated like helpless precious porcelain Buddhas!!! HOW so embarrassingly ridiculous?!?!?!
I disagree with her āparty is unifiedā worn out mantra, BUT Dianne turns upā¼ļøā¼ļøā¼ļø
Sharon turned up!!! MUST TURN UP MORE SHARON!!! Stay out of the oxygen starved bunkers. People think they r thinking. NO!!! they r as good as suffering sleep paralysis
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PW iām not surprised. No one should be. Weāve been taken 4 a ride. Me 4 a much shorter time as a member. It is not always through ill will. Only a few r like that, eg DuncanSmith, Blair, Widdecomb, Mandelson, Thatcher, Reeves, Coyle, Hodge, Khan etc.
It is due to initially decent people getting into cliques / bunkers with the most integrity decaying habits & culture. The PRIORITY is the clique patting their own backs & being nice & polite to each other while scorning the manyā¦ with consummate DISGUSTING ease.
Result??? Bunker dwellers / clique detached from reality, without realising it remain unrefreshed. Their WORST inclinations become even worse. Their best qualities r NEVER put to TANGIBLE EFFECTIVE use. A good recent example is, imagine surrounded by people who, despite a WIDE range of pressing matters raised on skwawkbox.org despite whatever other concerns someone at the SHARP end of the status quo, may have, they were moved 4 the first time i noticed, to express concern about a mocked up photo. THAT dented what they FELT was an attractive quality.
Call me old fashioned, but MILLIONS not only in this country, were attracted to POLICIES. No wonder Jeremy himself failed to claim the obvious; HE MOVED the āCENTRE.ā Johnson is now HAPILY moving to where Jeremy led. Meanwhile not even the theoreticians realise they need to claim and PUBLICISE that. Jeremy doesnāt, content apparently that despite the UNNECESSARY PROLONGED suffering of the many, it is satisfying enough to be adored 4 being right and granting an occasional decent from the fog up some mountain to inspect the shrines of those who already agree with him. A tragedy worthy of Euripides, Sophocles AND Aeschylus.
BUT where thereās life, thereās hope to extract POSITIVES to IMPROVE.
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If u all r members White Flag Men Smartbuts Malcolm Colemans AHs aka Allan Howard, then resign immediately!!! No constructive productive future needs u all. U caused Jeremy to appease non stop to the same creatures u NOW pretend 2 criticise.
NO TRUE āLeftā person would fail to congratulate Barnard, Jo Bird, Marc Wadsworth + more PLUS now Sharon Graham. U all cannot even bring your fraudulent yourselves 2 celebrate their victories, nor say a ONE good word about Chris Williamson. How so???
But of course u wonāt resign. Your job is to pump out more hopelessness & helplessness āno choiceā, ānothing could have been doneā, ānothing could be doneā except appease or those attacking āwould attackā. How utterly ridiculous. And despite the dreadful PREDICTABLE consequences, SOME āsmartā people fail to see through your obvious role.
U can only fool those who CHOOSE to be hoodwinked.
ā ļøš“š¢ā ļøš“š¢ā ļø
Andy, EASILY predictable. PREDICTED years ago on Skwawkbox.org they would do as REPEATEDLY & OPENLY said planned 2 do. They showed ZERO respect + regard 4 anyone other than serving vested interest of ONE PERCENT of the WORLD. NB not just the UK. The WORLD!!!
Hence Mandelson is OK sunning his mass on RUSSIAN Oleg Deripaskaās YACHT, Epsteinās YACHT +/or planeā¦ YACHTs of any āFilthy Richā creature.
No detached academic economic, political & social theories, so able people will remain BLIND & DEAF 2 KEY obvious FACTS. They WONāT connect, ANALYSE nor DETERMINE effective straightforward ACTIONS.
ššš§æššš§æššš§æ
ā¦ magnifying glasses r unnecessary 2 c ELEPHANT SIZED evidence under āsmartā āeducatedā eyes. GIANT clues hold no allure 4 the āsmartā & āwell educatedā.
Andy it appears it has 4 DECADES. But smart people failed 2 see the obvious SEEABLE at most within THREE MONTHS
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_________________________________
So what is it you do for a living signpost?
Allan – Or you could have just told us that he had posted
nearly 6,500 words.
There are plenty of word counters available online.
Reply To Steve H
Allan Howard could have said Signpost posted 6500 words or he could have said he posted ” a short book” (which he does nearly every day). If Signposts he keeps this up he’ll soon have written more words than are found in the Complete Works of Shakespear
I just did a search to ascertain how many words the average novel consists of. and it’s 100,000 to 120,000. So given that signpost churns out about 5,000 words a day, he is, in effect, writing a novel’s worth about every thee/four weeks – ie about fifteen a year!
It just occurred to me to check out how many words there are in the bible:
‘The King James Authorized Bible has 783,137 words. How many words is that? If you can type at 60 words a minute, it would take you just over 217 and a half hours to retype the entire Bible.’
So at 5,000 words a day it would take about 150 days to type out a bible’s worth and, as such, signpost is churning out around TWO bible’s worth of words a year (allowing for one day off a week).
How many words a minute can you type out on average signpost just out of interest? Or do you have your very own typist?
PS And needless to say, MOST of what he writes is pure fiction!!!
Re the works of Shakespeare Smartboy, he already HAS, and is fast approaching DOUBLE that!
Apparently the complete works amounts to 884,647 words.
Signpost…. Why dost thou?
Signpost: Why dost thou not juste copyeth and pasteth mye collection of your works that I have posted yonder above, and poste it each daye in every thread, which will saveth thou much time?
Correction: Given that signpost averages about 5,000 words a day, then that’s 30,000 words a week (allowing for one day off a week) and 120,000 per four-week month, and if you multiply that by 13, that amounts to 1,560,000 words. And given that it’s now around two years since he first started posting on skwawkbox, then his collected works to date amount to about 3 million wordsworth!
Have you thought of publishing them signpost?
Starmer determined to change WTF to WTAF
He’s detestable, isn’t he.
I honestly don’t think he’s got any real interest in leading the Labour party at all, he seemingly just wants to create an impassable obstacle course for the party’s left. When the time’s right, he’ll probably step aside for someone else. He won the leadeship through pure deception and no doubt will be well rewarded by hidden wealthy patrons after stepping down.
If members had anything about them, his conference speech would be heard in complete silence, with him leaving stage to no applause. That’s how the European left would treat someone like him.
A rousing chorus of “Oh Jeremy Corbyn” would be even more punchy!
Do you think that Stasi Starmer has an agenda…..but so many members voted for him as Party Leader, the Unity candidate?
Steve Richards – It’s a statement of the bleedin’ obvious, I know.
But ordinary members are being walked all over, treated like doormats by Starmer and Evans, and… if reports are true, certain trade unions, who’ve had sweeties dangled by this vile party leadership.
Surely, even centrist Labour MPs can see this package of reforms is all stick and no carrot for the membership; dramatically increasing trigger ballot thresholds and ending OMOV – reducing ordinary party member input and influence with no reciprocal offer, such as ‘open selection’ for CLPs.
Listen 4 NEC “vote” on Mandelson directed vomiting thirty year+ old leader undemocratic selection scam.
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I have always worried that if we started a new party we would go the way of Change UK, Respect, and the many other new parties which really never got off the ground. However if the proposed changes to electing a leader are carried and the absolutely disgusting purge of Jews and Socialist from the party continues we will have nothing to lose and we would have to go for it.
Smarboy, I agree with you that we have nothing to lose and I will add plenty to win, All the previous splits have been either from the right of the Party, Change UK and the Social Democratic Party in the 80’s or appealing to a particular section of the community like Respect. Still, I believe Respect managed to win a couple of seats.
I will argue that Blair was by far more charismatic and capable than Starmer, for once Blair never engaged in open purges against the left in the Party.
Therefore, we never before have a true split from the left, the evidence that we have from a split from the left is:
1-Livingston defying Blair over the selection for London’s Mayor standing as a candidate and winning.
2-George Galloway, expelled from the Labour Party standing for Respect at the next General Election and winning a parliamentary seat.
I honestly cannot see a Labour candidate standing against Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbott, John McDonnell, etc and winning the seat from them to Starmer’s Labour. The worse that can happen is that we will lost some of these seats to the Tories.
However, under the present conditions another Party from the left challenging the Tories on former Labour;s seats on the Red Wall, will mean that Starmer’s Labour can never have a chance to reclaim them.
No political Party in the last 15 years have been more successful than UKIP in getting to their goal and they never won a Parliamentary seat. However, be filing candidates for local elections and winning a good number and depriving the Tories of winning on their marginals during the General Elections of 2010 and 2015, it ensure a change of direction in the Conservative Party, that previously was very much pro EU.
A split new left Party with Trade Unions’s support can ensure that either it substitute the Labour Party as the second Party; it happened to the Liberal Party that was substituted by the Labour Party as the second Party or force the existing Labour Party to turn towards the left.
Thus, you are right, nothing to lose. Let’s hope that the members of the SCG stand with the membership rather than retreat into their cosy bunkers and decide to keep quiet.
I believe it could be appropriate to labour members of CLPs with a member of the SCG as a MP to write a polite email explaining that in the case of Evans been confirmed as GS and a change from OMOV they will leave the Labour Party and will not be voting Labour while Starmer or similar is leader.
Basically, if they don’t jump by their own volition, we should push them. It is a question to make them realised than once their CLPs lose left members Starmer will withdraw the Labour whip from them as soon as Johnson announces the day for the next GE and before purdah sets in and nobody will be available to support them, because in the process they would have lost all credibility with the membership.
Smartboy – I think the only person on the left with the profile / name recognition to pull it off is Corbyn.
FPTP obviously makes the breakthrough % threshold to start winning seats in a GE very high(~25%) the SCG should this stay where they are in the Labour party, so there is a twin-track approach in play. Labour’s unrepresentative right would love nothing more than the entire SCG resigning en masse.
There’d be a virtual MSM blackout to contend with, none of the wall-to-wall media coverager Chuka’s TIG- Change UK gang got. The BBC led its main news (TV & radio) coverage all day, with what it described as a ‘new epoch in British politics,’ talk about bias & hyperbole.
How things would go for a new socialist party would clearly depend upon how many new members they could attract – 100,000 plus and it could potentially snowball and become a serious threat to Labour, especially if it started to regularly out poll the Lib Dems. It’d obviously need to professionally leverage social media, and bring people like Novara et al onboard. And it’d need eye-catching attractive, truly socialist policies and anti-war positions, stuff that puts the empty vessel that is the current Labour party to shame(shouldn’t be hard). And finally, under no circumstances allow Paul Mason to get involved with the party.
Andy, I take on your point but respectfully disagree with you. UK’s General Elections have always been fought under FPTP. However, at the General Election in 1922 many former Liberal voters when to Labour that became the main Party of opposition or government ever since.
The crucial element in my view is as to whatever enough Trade Unions will be willing to financially support a new Party. It looks like the FBU and the Bakers are willing to leave the Labour Party.
As a member of Unite, I will support any move to stop financing the Labour Party and to switch our financial support to a Socialist Party. I am sure I am not the only Unite member been disgusted by David Evans. Our newly elected General Secretary identifies herself as a sindicalist, this is very good news for the left.
As for name recognition the vote is constituency by constituency, thus a good incumbent will always have the advantage.
As to Corbyn leading the new Party? I rather have someone with a bit of a spine. Don’t get me wrong Corbyn is a good man and I admire him, but when it comes to fight his ground I am afraid I see him as a bit of a push over. We wouldn’t we were we are if Corbyn has a spine.
Maria Vazquez, Corbyn need only be like some ceremonial president, i.e., a figurehead to get the ball rolling. You could fully understand him not needing a repeat of the stress and press intrusion viciousness he endured as Labour leader. And it’d unfair to ask for anything beyond a ceremonial role. This heavily hinges on the outcome of his battle to be reinstated to the PLP of course.
As for Unite, they surely should and could be more selective, by only supporting SCG candidates who they can trust to implement pro-union legislation. Starmer’s 10 Pledges contained pledges to the unions let’s not forget, if he’s walking those pledges back, he’s betraying them too. Unite’s left must be horrified by Evans’ and the HQ saboteurs antics.
Andy and honestly do you believe these same left MP’s won’t be removed one by one just like Jeremy? I do and then you have what? A Zombie party hiding it’s Tory nature behind a red rosette for the idiots to vote for as there will be nothing else.
Sorry socialism has a choice start a socialist ONLY Labour movement from grass roots heck if we only start off with 4-5 MP’s and some councillors that’s better than sodding UKip!
It has to be lead from the CLP’s forever inshired and sacresant never to be controlled by either the unions they can help and be welcome but like the PLP they can never be the master. OMOV for the many never the few is a rallying cry the press fuck them they will attack and hate and lie no matter what we do. We have to fight back expose their lies at every tern keep on hammering in messages of hope and care for people and people will flock again JC showed this in 2015 & 2019 just never allow workers paid by the party to be turncoats learn the hard lesions of the past but alwase move forwards. We can’t remain it’s a rotten carcas falling apart and dyeing let’s be honest. Time to leave the right wing with their prize they worked so hard to steal from us all.
Maria
I agree with a lot of what you but but I completely disagree with your lack of spine comment in relation to Jeremy Corbyn. Jeremy is in my opinion a very tough man and did the best anyone could be expected to do in the circumstances. He faced a degree of bullying and vilification completely unheard of – as Andy said in a previous post – the type of demonisation usually reserved for serial killers.
He had to contend with the vile coup led by two faced Hilary Benn, his mentors son and family friend, a personal as well as a political betrayal. His social media, old interviews and writing were trawled in the hope they could turn up something to discredit him but they found nothing so they invented things – remember the Mail and the S*n posting a video of him “dancing” on the way to the Cenotaph thereby showing disrespect for the war dead. They had actually edited other recordings to create this false video which they eventually took down .
When he was questioned about nuclear weapons Jeremy said he would try to resolve matters by talking rather than press the nuclear button . For this he was condemned. Michael Fallon said if he thought Britain was at risk he would launch a nuclear weapon ( ie start WW3 and turn the planet into a nuclear wasteland). Fallon was widely praised in the media for this insanity.
This was the type of negativity Jeremy had to deal with and of course all day every day he faced the sniping by the PLP the undermining by Southside and the venom of the MSM including the national broadcaster the BBC.
Most people would cracked under the strain but Jeremy soldiered on- calm pleasant and decent to the last. He is certainly not spineless Maria. He has more backbone than the rest of them put together.
I am sorry Smarboy, but can you imagine having the same result with for example Chris Williamson as leader? There is a man with a spine, in my opinion. Perhaps, it isn’t lack of spine but rather a need to be liked that led Corbyn to give too much ground?
Of course the MSM was against him, the right of the PLP too. However, why didn’t he stand up and be counted at Labour Conference in 2017 and state unequivocally:
1- that we have gone to the last GE with a manifesto promise of enacting Brexit, that Labour has achieve with this manifesto an excellent result and that Brexit’s Policy wasn’t up for discussion while he was still a leader of the LP. Any want that wanted to change this policy to stand for the leadership against him.
2-Fire Starmer’s from the Shadow Cabinet as soon as he started supporting the People’s Vote and withdraw the Labour whip from him for speaking against a clear manifesto promise. It would same a clear message to the unruly PLP: either get out and form your own Party or shut up. We know how well Change UK managed, do we?
That should have done it. The more the MSM have reported on Corbyn resolve to implement Brexit the less that the secondary narrative of Corbyn the terrorist, the unpatriotic and the antisemite would have worked with the masses and we will have seeing Corbyn in N10.
Johnson had not doubts he withdraw the Tory whip from those Tories MPs that challenged him over Europe and now he is the PM with a large majority thanks to the best efforts of Starmer and Co and thanks to Jeremy either no having enough of a back bone or been too nice and wanting to get on with the right of the Party. Either way the result is the same: we lost big time to the Tories and we once again lost the Party to the right.
I am afraid that I held both Corbyn and McDonnell’s responsible for keeping Starmer’s in the Shadow Cabinet and allowing him to carry on promoting the People’s Vote that led to the disastrous constructive ambiguity, it is what lost up the GE in 2019.
I like Corbyn as a man and understand the circumstances, but it doesn’t make me blind to the fact that he made avoidable mistakes that cost us the GE in 2019.
What cost us the election Maria was the sabotage of the Staffers in Southside and the bile spouted on a daily basis by members of the PLP who were too stupid to see that vilifying the party leader would bring the party into disrepute and as a result people wouldn’t vote for them as party candidates. Many of those concerned lost their seats I am delighted to say.
The newspapers played a major part as did the Establishment particularly the Jewish Establishment with the unprecedented intervention by the Chief Rabbi condemning Jeremy ( it was unprecedented because it was an appalling thing to do and no other religious leader ever sought to influence democratic political decisions by publicly making outrageous claims against a party leader) and the drip drip drip of poison every day on the News and current affairs programmes.
How could anybody overcome all that to win an election. The fact that Jeremy is still standing shows you the determination and sheer guts of the man in my opinion.
Smartboy, I’m sure you’ll agree the atmosphere around the party was horrible in the lead up to December 2019’s GE. The leadership and members had experienced two years of gaslighting hell from the media. draining enthusiasm and energy, having being constantly on the defensive over exaggerated claims of widespread racism in the party. It was unprecedented in British history. It seriously made me lose a lot of respect for this country; its press and question whether we can even call ourselves a democracy.
In 2017 I think the media class and PLP had convinced themselves Labour would get smashed so Corbyn was left alone by the PLP to campaign, while they looked on and sneered as he toured the country. Labour surged in the campaign and result shocked the hell out of the establishment, including security establishment and the US.
A more aggressive Galloway-esque leader may have been able to fight back better than Corbyn did. But ultimately the real reason Corbyn had it so bad was because, unlike Blair 13 years as leader (1994-2007) he didn’t have time to shape a party in his image. There really is strength in parliamentary numbers and the RW PLP always had the numbers advantage as we saw in the ‘cr@p coup’ of 2016.
Reply to Andy
Thanks for that Andy but I am not sure anyone could have fought back better. If Jeremy (or George Galloway if he had been leader) has responded nastily or in kind to the vile accusations made in the MSM he would have been pilloried as a bully. If he had taken legal action, which was what the PLP were hoping for, it would have turned into a 3 ring circus with Jeremy being slated by the MSM even more than usual whether he won or lost.
I genuinely mean this Andy I admire Jeremy Corbyn for his guts , his refusal to lie down or descend into the gutter with his detractors.
Yes, that’s why you need unity of purpose and message discipline. To shield a leader and share the heavy lifting.
Look at how the Tories have boycotted BBC’s Newsnight at Ministerial level since 2019 iirc. That’s how Labour could’ve handled the atrociously biased press and certain aggressive TV reporters. But had Seumas Milne recommended that approach,the Blairite PLP would have been far harsher critics than the tabloid press.
There’s little doubt Labour is currently comprised of two distinct groups, who quietly despise each other. The Blairites without Blair have become the bitterites. The Tories had similar issues between so-called ‘one nation’ Tories and the right-wing Eurosceptics, the latter prevailed. Some side probably needs to prevail in Labour. But if is the right, a new party is not just needed it’s essential.
Reply to Andy
I think your comment about Blairites without Blair is incorrect. He is still there in the background using his immense wealth to control things. His fingerprints are all over the recent fiascos.
It’s about time all unions disaffiliated from the labour party so as to establish a new democratic socialist party!
The left have been talking about this for a long time now.
I agree about Angela Rayner but think she needs educating ..
She needs to disabuse herself of the notion that there is a single
voice of the Jewish Community ..
It has to be said though that Dominic Raab is no Boris Johnson –
he does not have the massive dishonesty and deeply embedded
sense of entitlement of the PM. ..
First rule of management
Do something, make the decision then have the wisdom to change it if it doesn’t work
Never do nothing
Or
If your a socialist in the Labour party just give in, go for JC’s management style, the rabbit caught in the headlights in the middle of the road praying the nice car won’t run him over
Andy, forgot to say that I agree with you on your line on Paul Mason.
Please stop
What do you all think the RW have that allows them to treat the unions, members and supporters with utter contempt
What is it that stops them being turfed out
You are dealing with gutless and spineless glove puppets, what they know is they will be looked after, rewarded for their dirty work
Any decent journalist just has to do a ‘where are they now’ exercise, follow the money
The Left wing should clean up under these conditions
Relentless campaigning and coordination at every level yields results, see Unison, coupled with individuals like Becket, stepping down for the greater good, just need a handful of honest brokers to resolve any disputes, sort it and move on, the dream is a Socialist Labour party winning the next GE
Leverage funding, how long can they last without unions and members contributions, how can we speed up their demise
Please stop talking of a new party, not a snowballs chance in hell
Whatever the question the answer is more democracy, so never again can we be hamstrung, kneecapped and betrayed by these fuckers
Yup the same BS stay and fight LIE. I will use small words here they control the party, they can kick out every socialist tomorrow and what can you do NOTHING you have no power no control. Every so called socialist MP is on notice that they can and will be kicked to the kerb and they will be one by one until there are none. Then what will you do send it a few motions you have no power any more in this rotten Labour party. That’s your way and the future the keep on paying them dues so Starmer and Evens can laugh at you waste your money and keep you at bay.
Or the other way with a party controlled by members as it should have been. A PLP told to STFU and do the work they are paid to do or get out. Workers who want to help the party win elections not plotting for our downfall….
Or your way 20-30 years of fighting to possibly maybe get back to where we was in 2015 still right controlled. Still more right wing than left MP’s that’s your answer? Nope the same old trap stay and fight for what I ask? Answer more of the same…
Only shills and fools want that Sir!
Doug, the Labour Party would be lost to the left for the next 20 years at least if David Evans is confirmed GS at this Conference and Labour renounce of electing its leader under OMOV.
Let’s us be clear from my point of view the choice in England and Wales without a left Party in the offering would be between the Conservative and a Fascist Parties, because this is what Labour would have become.
Under these circumstances I wouldn’t vote Labour and will vote Green instead, never mind who would be the Labour candidate. I cannot see myself voting for Labour while still under the leadership of people that behave like fascists.
In the case of my present Labour MP that is far from left, I will seriously consider advising other Labour voters to vote Tory in an effort to get ride of him.
Leverage funding could work, but we will still have the same old same old and the Party machine will remain in their grubby hands. Dough have you forgotten how they sabotaged Corbyn?
Maria – I will seriously consider advising other Labour voters to vote Tory in an effort to get ride of him.
To be replaced by who?
Maria – Me neither, I couldn’t vote Labour in that ‘Evans/OMOV scrapped’ scenario either. We’d be risking voting for another Iraq or worse under New Labour 2.0.
Starmer is dangerous, probably more dangeerous than Johnson imho, anyone this cynical, cold and calculating to deceive members with a ‘working class rooted campaign and left-wing campaign pitch, only to then turn around and say, ” i didn’t mean any of it, gotcha suckers!” is deeply sinister. The reactionarism, intolerance of dissent and violation of members’ rights and the rulebook in the party is also worrying and oppressive.
SteveH, to be replaced by a Tory if necessary. In my book better a right winger than a fascist.
Now you are being silly.
SteveH, it’s not silly.
Suppose Labour somehow conjure a win due to Brexit/covid economic pain, and they’re a dull centrist authoritarian outfit like New Labour c. 2005-2010, they lose against a rejuvenated Tory party, and are out of power for another 20 years. What will you really have achieved for progressives?
It’s transformational change as per 2017,2019 or go home. It has to be. Those New Labour people think it’s permanently the 1980s-1990s.
This crafty move is reminiscent of Mandelson – Starmer talks about requiring a 50% vote to trigger a contest. Everyone goes ballistic. Starmer “backs down’ and goes for a lower figure. People think they have won and let him get “lesser proposals” (which was what he really wanted) through. They think they have won but they have really lost. So has democracy.
Good statement from Sharon Graham on this.