Analysis of Starmer’s vague and non-committal lack of policy suggests an underlying goal, says former LOTO worker
Phil Bevin worked in Jeremy Corbyn’s opposition leader’s office. Starmer’s sidekick David Evans tried to sack him and his colleagues in the middle of the Covid crisis, so he has first-hand experience of the outlook and conduct of the ‘NeoLabour’ regime. He believes that Starmer’s claim that he will raise taxes on the wealthy is worthless and meaningless. Here he explains why.
A common view of Keir Starmer is that he shows no real political conviction because he has no real politics. He flip-flops on matters of policy because he holds no strong opinions himself, which is why he appears to stand for nothing.
Starmer’s apparent fumbling of the controversy over the Government’s plan to raise National Insurance to pay for social care seems like it could be yet another example of his political ineptitude. However, it may actually be the latest example of a coherent political strategy from Starmer’s two-faced NeoLabour.
In response to the Government’s unpopular plan to raise National Insurance, Starmer hinted that Labour would consider the idea of a wealth tax – specifically targeting landlords with multiple properties and people who trade large numbers of stocks and shares – alongside a range of options. Notably, when pressed to commit to one of these options, such as a wealth tax, in an excruciating interview with Sky News’ Beth Rigby, he was unable or unwilling to do so.
Starmer and Labour have since “clarified” their position on funding social care, though it remains confusing. According to an article by LabourList, Starmer has “stressed his preference for funds for social care to be raised through income from assets, saying that Labour would raise the cash in a ‘broader way where those with the broadest shoulders pay their fair share’ ”.
However, this vague language does not actually suggest that a wealth tax is Labour’s new policy – which is apparently to provide more care at home and cut hospital treatments to raise money for social care – but is instead an expression of a loosely articulated personal preference from the “leader”.
A quote from Jonathan Ashworth published in the same article adds to the confusion by claiming that “Labour would fund social care via a community-first savings plan.”
To be clear, to talk about funding care through “savings” is to talk of cuts. Additionally, delivering more care in the community can also be understood as another way of announcing less public money to support people in residential care. Many people don’t want to live in residential care but that does not excuse reducing the availability of this service in a country with an ageing population, where more care services will be needed in the future. Angela Rayner has also joined in on Twitter, coining the new slogan “wage rises, not tax rises”, which seems like a pithier version of Peter Mandelson’s “we are intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich”.
If Starmer’s “personal preference” for taxing Landlords and stock market traders seems to contradict Ashworth’s claim that Labour will fund reforms to social care through “savings” and Angela Rayner’s dislike of taxation, in reality it does not. To emphasise: Starmer’s expressed personal preference is not Labour policy and he has never claimed that it is. What Labour has not done, and neither has Starmer, is explicitly commit to any extra investment in social care, via increased taxation or otherwise.
Labour appears to have announced a policy of cuts framed in progressive rhetoric. And it isn’t the first time it has done this.
Back in February, Starmer announced Labour’s policy of establishing a British bond to fund the national recovery from COVID-19. This policy received praise from many on the left, who saw it as a return to the principle of public investment. But this narrative unravelled when it became clear that Starmer intended for the money raised by the bond to be funnelled into private companies.
We saw a similar trend when Starmer announced that Labour would prioritise British companies for government contracts, which many on the left initially perceived as Starmer’s leadership adopting the Corbyn era policy of “Build it in Britain”. Of course, it should have been obvious from the start that announcing a commitment to outsourcing is not the same thing as guaranteeing manufacturing jobs by expanding public ownership of the means of production.
A single incidence of confusing communication may have been a mistake but there is a pattern to NeoLabour’s announcements which, when the dots are joined, reveals a coherent political and policy strategy:
If Corbyn’s Labour aimed to use public money to invest in publicly owned infrastructure, Starmer appears to want to funnel public money into private hands, all the while repackaging asset stripping Thatcherism as “progressive”; perhaps Starmer hopes the progressive framing will allow him to hood-wink elements of the soft left into letting him off the hook until its too late to change the Party’s rightward trajectory.
Whatever the political aims of NeoLabour’s reframing of Thatcherism, the policy implications are frightening. For social care, this does mean that working people won’t suffer hardship from National Insurance Increases to fund investment under Neo Labour – because there probably won’t be any investment.
Ordinary people will keep more of their wages when working but would suffer inadequate provision of social care when they are vulnerable and need it most. When Labour criticises the Tories for no longer being the party of low taxes, they are pushing the Conservatives even further to the right, shifting the whole of political debate in the same direction.
The implications of this rightwards turn, particularly for basic principles of equality and the availability of essential services to ordinary people are spine-chilling to contemplate.
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It’s a wise move to keep the Tories guessing.
The Tories have shown in the past that they are dab hands at putting measures in place to hinder Labour’s policy implementation
SH it is well know 2 u, your claims r stinking RUBBISH
🟡⬜️🟡⬜️🟡⬜️
Windchime – Really – Are you claiming that the Tories don’t do this.
You think the evasiveness is strategic and solely about keeping the ‘Tories guessing’? Most of the public are noticing and asking for clear answers as to what Labour stands for. Have you seen Starmer’s personal poll ratings – and he can’t blame Corbyn for those.
Starmer is a multimillionaire, who’s reputedly personally worth at least £7.5 million(telegraph), and on top of that owns land in Surrey valued at over £10m. He’s without doubt one of the richest MPs in parliament. His wealth isn’t the problem however, the problem is he’s not a socialist. He’s a member of the Trilateral Commission which ‘promotes the interests of big banks and multinational corporations(MNC)s.’
Starmer’s use of language is interesting, “double whammy” to describe the NIC increase and the £20 per week reduction in universal credit payments. It was previously deployed in a Tory election TV campaign ad to attack Labour’s plans. “No longer the party of low tax” and “Clobbered by new taxes” …Who thinks this Labour leadership will propose any wealth tax when using the language of the right like this? Starmer’s choice of language, often betrays his true political views. And he won’t do anything if he can wriggle out of it.
Andy – You are of course entitled to your opinion but I do think you are clutching at straws.
This is what happens when you reveal your hand too early
Come to the light before it’s too late everyone. He’s worse than the Tories.
SteveH – This isn’t about keeping their powder dry. Starmer has moved the party to the right and he’s more preoccupied with fighting the left, than he is with developing policies which could differentiate them from the Tories. Look at his sackings and appointments to date; Shadow Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, and the way leftists have been systematically removed from the shadow cabinet. His political trajectory is clear.
Starmer will try to remain evasive, saying very little about their policy plans. And should he make it to a general election – hopefully he’ll be challenged before then -, in the final weeks of the campaign they’ll drop a centrist manifesto; one that’s been developed by a small coterie around the leader in total secrecy. A manifesto shorn of all 2017’s and 2019’s radicalism – a manifesto in which the 10 pledges don’t get a look in; a manifesto that enthuses nobody. And the end result will be a calamitously low turn out for Labour and a Gordon Brown c.2010 type result, with centrists left scratching their heads and making excuses..
If you cared about democracy and having a viable alternative to the Tories @SteveH, then you’d be calling for Starmer to go.
Andy – I’m not the one trying to oust the democratically elected leader of the party. On the basis of what?
Accusations that despite repeated requests you have been unable to support with any credible evidence.
FFS you haven’t even got a credible alternative and even if you do manage to come up with one from the very limited pool that you have available you just don’t have the numbers to mount a challenge.
SometimesI do wonder if you are a Tory plant.
Steve H……Youve got what you voted for in the knight I hope you and your children and grandchildren “enjoy”
SteveH
Which part of No one wants to choose between two cheap and nasty Tory parties, the last time it was tried, it lost 5 million votes and almost bankrupted the Labour party
Now remind us where we are at under Temporary Embarrassment
Doug – But the party has more members now than we had in Dec19 before the 19GE.
Due to a loss of trust in Jeremy and the people advising him the party lost a very significant number of members in the latter years of JC’s leadership.
Steve H- can you provide details of the drop in membership prior to the GE and the increase since as this is the first I ever heard of such a thing. My understanding is that the opposite is the case and we are now in dire financial straits due to the fall in membership fees/ member donations.
Smartboy – It is easy to get confused about the actual number of members because the figures that Labour usually publish include members who are up to 6mths in arrears,
The following article published in Jul19 provides a rare insight into the breakdown of these figures.
Fortunately the various internal elections provide an accurate count of fully paid up members who are entitled to vote. I have listed these official Labour party figures below. These figures are accurate and tell their own story.
“Labour’s membership has dipped below half a million after tens of thousands quit the party, PoliticsHome can reveal.
Official figures put the total at just under 485,000 – down from a peak of 564,000 at the end of 2017.
That includes around 35,000 supporters whose subscriptions are in arrears, meaning the party now has around 450,000 fully paid-up members.
The 14% drop in membership comes against a backdrop of dissatisfaction by many in the party at Jeremy Corbyn’s approach to Brexit and anti-semitism.
A senior Labour MP said the party’s budget was based on an assumption that the number of paying members would not fall below 500,000……..
…………”It’s the biggest annual fall in our history – admittedly from a huge base – and it will only get worse.”
Glen O’Hara, Professor of Contemporary History at Oxford Brookes University, said: “The decline in official membership is very big – 14% or so in just 18 months……
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/excl-labour-membership-dips-below-half-a-million-as-tens-of-thousands-leave-party
Smartboy – Here are the official number of fully paid up members at the time of various internal elections. You may find it worthwhile reading the full article. There is all sorts of interesting stuff buried in its rather dense pros
NEC elections are very useful for giving us accurate membership numbers, as under the rules only paid up members get to vote. NEC election electorate numbers give us the most clear picture of committed membership at each point they are held. Recent numbers are as follows:
July 2017 – 538,606
November 2017 – 525,779
June 2018 – 506,320
November 2019 – 430,359
January 2020 – 552,835
August 2020 – 495,961
https://labourlist.org/2020/11/everything-we-can-learn-about-the-labour-party-from-2020-nec-results/
Let’s be clear: Tax on wealth (and unearned income) will be the KPI (key performance indicator) of billionaire-supporting Starmer. They’ll judge their RoI (Return on Investment) by how little tax they pay under a Starmer administration (sic).
Follow the Money – or lack of it from wealthy individuals and corporations – in Government coffers.
Labour can’t expect anyone to vote for it if it WON’T be at least somewhat clear about what it would do if elected. No Labour government will ever be elected on an “it’s enough to just beat THEM” campaign, and no Labour government that wasn’t explicitly socialist could be different than the Tories, since market values and empathy-based egalitarian social policies can’t ever co-exist.
Needs repeating until well meaning hard working people get it: EASILY predictable + PREDICTED ( a glossy statement as not only obvious but stated REPEATEDLY & OPENLY by SIR starmer’s COUP collaborators & saboteurs… EVEN on Conference stage when TWatson MOCKED Jeremy in fron of his face, all of us and the WHOLE world.
The question is WHY some r DETERMINED 2 close eyes to these BLATANT facts?
And, what is the benefit of refusing to face facts, change and ditch the self-indulgent back patting & damp dripping pap gulping?
How exactly does that serve the many? And what made experienced adults STILL b willing ro swallow SIR starmer’s DIRT CHEAP ‘promises’?
Those r the questions we need to answer rather than re vomit the same multi vomited lazy excuses???🟦🟨👁🟦🟨👁🟦🟨👁
I’m presenting FACTS in evidence this very Johnson regime. The most right wing MSM tools have admitted; Tories in their OWN nest ALWAYS steal Labour policies. In fact one said last week exactly as i’v noted for years, EVEN b4 getting involved; BLUE Tories do get away with stealing TRUE Labour policies + do things which even parasites abusing the Labour label are scared of announcing.
Tories Red & Blue have no policies except delivering 4 their chums more wealth. But from time to time they do promise policies which they’ve stolen eg from Jeremy’s manifesto; but try their best to not deliver in tangible ways.
FACTS!!! U know it.
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Windchimes – It is not often that we are in agreement. Thanks for confirming the point I made above
This article really explains clearly why Labour under Starmer and co is simply not electable. They are not different from the tories in respect of their ‘policies’.
Conference might be interesting and probably is the most crucial to come.
Next year’s UK local elections may be the last chance to force Starmer out. Calamitous results across London and PLP MPs will have to act.
Andy – It is telling and a very sad state of affairs that your plans are relent on a Labour defeat. It is high time you got a grip of yourself.
Andy I agree with your well thought out comments and applaud you,but you must by now realise that “the partys over” .and the only solution is a new working-class movement of the people not the Labour party.
You’re as daft as each other
Joseph – Thanks for being kind enough add weight to my point.
Steve H “you’re as daft as each other” coming from the guy who cant even supply a consistent name or even a alias that looks legitimate but soldiers on under the gopher logo of rat man?
⬆️
SteveH – It’d be a temporary setback that prevents a much more problematic general election mauling.
Look at the Tories in May 2019 – election year. In May’s European elections they polled just 9%, and as a result Theresa May was forced out. Being ruthless with Starmer, like the Tories were with both IDS and Theresa May, is an approach even non-SCG Labour MPs must consider. Loyalty to a widely disliked leader is idiotic in such circumstances.
Andy – I very much doubt that there will be leadership challenge this side of the next GE and even if it there was it would have to come from the RW because ‘the left’ don’t have the numbers. What would you gain from swapping Keir for Yvette Cooper.
Your just an idiot without a plan.
Starmer has no political ideals – he was voted in on
the basis of 10 pledges and has said he will honour the
2017 and 2019 Manifestos but just as soon as he was in
\office he jettisoned these and put what ? in place.
After the 2017 election the Labour party relied on
their GE17 manifesto as a basis of their policies
with the understanding that a revised version would
be available on the calling of the next GE.
In contrast Starmer has jettisoned everything –
leaving a vacuum with vague hints as to what might follow.
Even Lord Kinnock has criticised this lack of clarity on
policy or principles! Kinnock Sr has suggested a very basic set of
principles based on Starmers original 10 and
John McDonald has followed up with an expanded and
more detailed version.
It seems that Starmer has replaced much needed principles
with a vindictive witch hunt on supposed “toxic elements”
in the Labour Party.
HolbyFanMw – Well so you keep saying but to date you’ve been unable to supply bugger all credible evidence to support your ‘assertions’.
You are little more than a gopher for the regime supplying propoganda sanctioned by the regime and paid for by a foreign country Israel.Thats your version of credible evidence Stevie H Hall centrist Dad and other aliases.The Rat logo is very “telling”
Joseph – Your in danger of becoming a caricature of yourself. All you have is empty rhetoric
I am struggling to see whats new in this article that anyone with even half a brain didnt realise.Still I Suppose it is also obvious to most people other than the majority who voted for him in the elections that someone with a title on his head woild most probably be a establishment pawn.Youve let the dogs out and theres no longer any interest in closing the gate,other than for a few stragglers who havnt worked out the “party is effectively over” ..A new working-class movement now or aceppt that your children and grandchildren can be taken back to the working class conditions of Dickensian British values which means POVERTY and Deprivation on a industrial scale.
Joseph – Jeez!….and you expect to be taken seriously
I think that those voting for Starmer as Labour Leader did NOT do
so for his title – but for his promise to continue the values put
forward by Corbyn in the 2017 and 2019 GEs and these were
summarised via Starmers 10 pledges.
Do not criticise the Labour members but the person they trusted
who reneged on his promises!
A good basis for a new set of policies has been posted on the
JVL web site by groups from Labour Left.
I think that there are many in the Labour PLP who have realised
their mistake in Starmer and are lying low and waiting for the best time
to try for a new leader. Too early would be disastrous ..
Starmer and his Instrument have promised that the Forde Report
will be presented at the next NEC – so we will wait and see. If it does
its job – and I have my doubts – that might be the time for a challenge
to the leadership
HolbyFanMw – I don’t think Starmer has anything at all to fear from the Forde report. As many of those exposed in the leaked report appear to have been Union appointees some in the Unions may have much more to fear.
Steve H Hall centrist Dad and other aliases.You are litterly off the wall with your right wing rhetoric and now weve moved into the same old tebbit ideology of union bashing and defending the indefensible..You do more damage to the knight than anyone supporting corbyn could dream of,so carry on youve got my full support in ridding the country of this infestation.
Joseph – I suggest you have a look at what Ms Oldknow is up to now. Are you not in the least bit concerned that her Union employers appear to have completely disregarded her exposure by the leaked dossier.
I’ve asked you many, many times before – Who’s this ‘Hall’ guy that you keep obsessing about?
Joseph – After being exposed she’s still landed on her feet. Here’s a link for you, how do you explain this?
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/emilie-oldknow-obe-530008126
What were her Union thinking?
Is that the Unison that has just shifted back to the Left
The sky is black with the wings of chickens coming home to roost
Anyone who cares a jot about the Labour party is working to rid us of these toerags
Don’t have the numbers, let’s see what heat conference then let’s see what happens when funding is withdrawn
Steve H davidh sh centrist Dad and other aliases…You using Ashworths other half oldkow! of the right wing duo to reinforce an argument on your union bashing obsession amongst the others China,Cambodia,Russia Venezuela and many more favourites for the neo liberal alliance..?Have another large one Stevie boy 👦maybe hair of the dog might sober you up including your fag habbit(not the US term)
Holby fan mw…..So the title of Sir keir gave not a inkling of were the parasites coming from?….no wonder the Labour party is effectively bust.Even in all of my forty years a member of the Labour party have I ever heard of a socialist in the Labour party supporting titles and privalage for the leadership only those who support the old parasites lobby in the other place.and they are not socialists even if they think they are.Privalage,titles and Royalty are all thats rotten and cancerous in a society that should have dumped centuries ago..!
Joseph – …..and yet Jeremy Corbyn recommended Karie Murphy for a peerage, how ironic is that.
You got it Steve H enjoy.
Joseph – Got what?
And yet JC would have demolished the House of Lords
Doug….what are you doing wandering around in the early hours?I hope Corbyn would have done for the House of lords,but why then promote it by sponsoring the working-class girl Murphy who would have been a fish out of water amongst those parasites.And before you say it you don’t destroy an evil by supporting it even under the excuse of being a wooden horse..Take the Dog 🐕for a walk doug and think about it I certainly have over the last eighteen months since leaving the Labour party.We lead by example and from the front and thats been forgotten in the rush for neo liberal values….regards comrade
Joseph – The ‘working class girl’ on £100k pa. 🤔
Sorry Steve H centrist Dad …..I”A working class girl earning over one hundred thousand “Murphy.?…..Well mr H Hall centrist Dad I know you would like a nice working-class girl and nice working-class boys on peanuts but you may be amazed to know that some nice working-class people have earned hundreds of thousands and paid the taxes without resorting to legging it to a Caribbean bolt hole with another lot of bottom feeders and parasites…Whens the knight legging it comrade….oh forgot he will be jetting off to a place in the sun stolen off the backs of Palestinian familys…bloody pathtic you ladder obsessed ABC one and two and up yours mr Hall. Regards joe the plumber from Bowton.?
Joseph – Rant away, WGAF.
Holby fan mw…you started off really well but in just over a couple of weeks of regular posting youve started to morph just like steve h and look were hes now after at first a supporter of socialist revival under Jeremy Corbyn and socialism and then the lame excuse for voting for a knight of the realm “it was the only option available “….to we must have change and then a quick 1…two and he morphs into Norman tebbit Thatchers (think tank)wiv bover boots” You need to settle down and have a rethinking regarding socialist values and the working-class struggle,thrres plenty of books available as I found out as political education officer at my local constituency even in the heartland of Tory Surrey….its a shame the knights education didn’t stretch beyond the local snobs school he attended in Reigate my area of influence but the little toerag never showed his face in our office or at any of our demos including a big one for the NHS defence campaign at the East Surrey Hospital were his mother supposedly worked so I am told by our knight geniologist expert Steve H Hall It’s very nearly thirty years ago now…..Time flys when you’re knocking on a bit but the essential values and class never disappear if you are honest with yourself dont follow the herd.and don’t forget the warning that titles ,privalage,royalty,private education are a sign of decay and a rift between whats at the heart of the working-class movement and its definitely not titles and privalage which the members are learning the hard way and the country has to suffer that decision of the Labour party.for a very long time before a new party arises from the ashes of the Labour party.
Joseph – Why would anyone take any notice of a self confessed Communist who is still living on ‘past glories’ and has a weird (but very selective) obsession about titles.
Steve I would not have the bravery to be a communist like my grandfather and grandmother but I greatly admire their spirit and. determination after the first world war a royalist war never forget and I also admire my eldest brother kevin who has proved to be consistent and correct about the direction of the Labour party over his eighty years and sixty of them being a member of the communist party.The world is in for a reset and probably another world war with people like you in control in the west…This time our Natives are armed and dangerous and more important ready.and waiting.Dont think you can sail your fleets into the S.China sea and just rattle sabres and it had no effect……it has and history of mankind will know who to blame because this time we write the history of mankind..??
Joseph – Yeah OK, is anyone listening 🥱
Well Im glad I started well!
Actually I didn’t vote for Starmer because I wanted one of the women ..! I voted for Lisa Nandy in fact
because I thought she would stick up for the Palestinians being as she was supposed to be their “Friend”. and to stick up for what she believed in. She also understood the necessity of NOT having a second vote and of respecting the Electorate in their choice of Leave. However it was not long after she was appointed Shadow Foreign Secretary that she disabused me of that … and even more so now.
I was speaking up for those who were fooled by him and so far as I know Starmer is not a peer of the realm but a “Sir” and he rarely used his title .. Another who soon disabused me of his suitability as
Labour Leader.
What is important is surely what people do and what they believe in .. I certainly do not
categorise them as to “Class”. I come from a working class background but would not categorise myself as “:Working Class” now for I do not know what it means any more, I was lucky enough to p[ass the eleven plus and got a good Education end ended up in teaching and in research – maths and techy stuff . My partner was forced to leave school early because of family poverty but managed to catch up later on. As a result we ended up with good salaries and good pensions but I still – I hope – empathise with those who are not so lucky . Our kids went to comprehensives and got an excellent Education – better in some ways than our own.
We all come from a diverse set of back grounds and I hope do not use a tick box to categorise people –
eg there are plenty of “Sirs” who are left wing.. and yes Corbyn did recommend people for the HoL However I don’t want to get away from the subject too much – which is the crushing of those on
low salaries and the vast difference between them and the very rich and the necessity of a fair society
and taxes.
The country was far more equal in the 1970s but Thatcherism helped to change that. The way the Labour Party is going has sickened me and I am trying to work out the best way
of changing it. I appreciate that some have given up from despair but look at how Corbyn
came out of the blue! I was not a member of any party till Corbyn turned up and am not giving up mow.
On that subject I see that “that dress” from the NY Ball is part of the heading of this item. I know that the woman wearing it has been criticised as hypocritical however I disagree for where better to advertise
views on the necessity of Taxation than to people who disagree? No point in advertising to the people who agree/ Apparently she got an invite as she is part of the governance of New York.
Holby fan mw You missed the point I didn’t say the members voted for the knight because of his title surley theyre not that stupid.ITs because of the title that they should have run a mile because anyone with a title should be off limits because it says everything and nothing but they are fully signed up to the establishment system.And on another issue a socialist can never aceppt a title or as you allege theres a few good socialists with titles?then thats utter nonsense and like I said before they have abandoned the working class of which you don’t recognise according to you.You also voted for nandy for the leadership knowing she was big pharmas agent for smiffy owen smith in the Chicken coup faction.? Think despite you being a teacher you should definitely get some political education along with those who voted for the two right wing Labour mps the knight and Nandy ….you started well and I guess you can be forgiven being new to party politics….Must do better in my report and needs to concentrate otherwise next term could be difficult.!
Well blow me?
He’s back – and has gone into wee stevie bingo overdrive.
got any proof?
You’re entitled to your opinions…
Ousting the democratically elected leader…
Nothing to back up your assertions…
Thanks for reinforcing my poont…
Caricature of yourself…
Fail to provide credible evidence…
(Nobody called house yet??)
Idiot without a plan (the irony is strong in this one)
I’m just waiting on: ‘its not my fault you’re too stupid to tell what keef’s policy is…
And: ‘Corbyn didn’t….
For the full house. Fuck me wee fella, just like your idol, not only are you utterly predictable, you’re mindnumbingly monotonous. A fucking telegraph pole has infinitely more appeal, more awareness and FAR better social skills than the pair of you combined.
Toffee – I see you that you have yet again resorted to pumping up your ego with another boring repetitive rant. Rhetoric is all you’ve got. You are becoming a bit of a joke. Don’t worry though I’m sure that somewhere out there must be someone who was impressed.
– I see you that you have yet again resorted to pumping up your ego with another boring repetitive rant
Too late, sonny. I got that one in first. And you reinforced my point (see what I did there?)
Nowt repetitive about this reply, neither…Although it looks like the impressed one wasn’t on my card – this time. Have another go – and lose at that one too, dullard.
Keeping the toerags guessing, is he?
So when can we expect keef to say; “it’s not MY fault you’re too stupid to know what my policies are or words along those lines, hmm?
Doesn’t seem so much of an intelligent answer in that respect, does it, wise guy?
No, the reason keef isn’t telling anyone is because he’s bereft of ideas.
And everyone with a modicum of common sense knows it. So what’s you’re excuse, genius?
Toffee – I don’t need one. Why would anyone with a bit of common sense give a jot what an uncouth idiot like yourself rants about.
And you have the gall to call me ‘repetitive’?
Yet another stock answer from the brainless automaton who can’t tell us a single policy nor a difference between his party and the toerags.
He doesn’t need to
Tell it to the marines, soft shite.
I am always impressed especially when Toffee words are expressed in the local vernacular of Scouse poetry that gets the message across to everyone loud and clear.except you of course an old Tory boy a man with no name and no morality.Mr steve h hall davidh and many other aliases.
Joseph – Still digging I see, for goodness sake grow up.
Toffee…..the Turd Polisher’s a sick individual. Leave him be in his fictitious Caribbean hideaway. He needs a break.
Needs something breaking, more like 😕
He’s now up to 32 posts in an 8 hour period on this thread alone. That’s obsesssive even if he’s paid to do it. Complete over kill. It must be the poor beggars’ entire life.
Albert, He’s getting beside himself with fury over the fact that he’s always wrong. I keep telling him you can never polish a Turd, but he won’t listen.
Doug – …..and yet the party has more members now than we did in Dec19 before the 19GE.
Due to a loss of trust in Jeremy and the people advising him the party lost a very significant number of members in the latter years of JC’s leadership.
Yes steve h davidh people lost “trust” in the Labour party after the insult of ignoring a democratic mandate for whatever reason it was done.Your idol as Toffee calls him should take note.You can behave like a dictator in a junta but I bet you cant give a jot of “evidence” of one that stood the test of time.You have to take the people with you and that was the mistake of Corbyn and the suicide pact you and your leader have made mr H Hall.from small mill town in the Caribbean bolt hole.Must be bedtimr now for little boys and girls?
Stop it, Joseph – wee Stevie’s got emojis for answers left in reserve and he’s neither afraid nor embarrassed to use them.
Maybe they should give keef an emoji chart and when he’s asked a question he can point to one.
It’s as good as we can hope for, I suppose.
Joseph That is more than a bit ironic coming from someone who has chosen to live in a country rated as one of the most corrupt in the world.
A country with an elected dictatorship who’s ex Khmer Rouge leader maintains himself in power by fear, imprisonment, torture and murder whilst lining his own and his families pockets through nepotism all with the aid and support of a neighbouring authoritarian dictatorship.
Steve H Hall centrist Dad and other aliases.Deflection politics is so typical of you when you have lost the arguments.I will not go over old ground other than CIA trained and paid so called Opposition parties.Longest serving leader Hun sen liberator of the people from a insane dictator.A country rising from poverty and war with over thirty years of peace and with the help of comrades China and Vietnam we are moving upwards into a manufacturing country and a technology country and quickly.Can Britain say the same with the only manufacturing going on is bullshit and propoganda from degenerates like you who continue to attack a country like Cambodia still feeling the consequences of a modern day Genocide and a Chemical bombing campaign from the USA that’s still shows today in babies born in the mountains and rice fields of Cambodia with severe body deformity. .including my grandson jo sen .Now f off to bed cretin.
Joseph – The fact remains that if you were as critical of your host country’s leader as you are of the Labour party leadership then you would be behind bars and (if you’re lucky) deported.
This is a serious website. It’s time for those who value it to take a ‘self-denying ordinance’ to abjure the sport in responding to SH and to ignore him. Those who do not are playing his game. For myself, I don’t read his posts or the responses.
I wish this site would adopt similar guidelines to those of Jewish Voice for Labour. Comments published there are always thoughtful.
Paul smith…..whos appointed you as moderator,all you ever do is whinge about posters and whats correct…and etiquette.Get back to bed if you don’t like it.and find another site to stamp your feet and howl.Smiffy get over yourself.
I rest my point.
Paul – You may note that whether ou agree with my initial comment or not it started out that way.
Yay smiffy Steve H has every right to represent starmer and make a bit of extra cash to fund his lifstyle in the Caribbean bolt hole.B52and mojitos cocktails dont come cheap amongst the jet set comrade do they?
Deflection.politics sh….
Koseph – If that is the case then how come you fall for it every time?
Steve H koseph…..I can’t help it you are too easy a target to ignore.
He’s done it again.
Let’s talk about how “savings” means job losses, lower wages and more work for those who are still in work. Not a position that should be supported by any self-respecting member of the LP.
And I cannot believe that theres been no consistent campaign against the conservative government since the secatarian tax increases via NI contributions that have been dumped on the backs of the working class rather than windfall tax and a increased tax on corperation on business.The targeting of the working class levy uniquely positioned to bleed ordinary people of there only legacy their homes is reminiscent of the poll tax being eighty six thousand pounds whether its a studio flat or a mansion.and once again we have a Tory government making the bulk of the lower leagues pay for everything including tory handouts in the virus.IF starmer cant show sympathy for the plight of the people then at the very least show some respect and pretend to be angry with this entitled tory government.
…and, once again, Steve H manages to hijack the conversation.
A reminder – the title of the article was :
“Corbyn staffer: Starmer’s too busy repackaging Thatcherism to increase taxes on the wealthy.”
.But George peel whats the point of repackaging when the Torys are already in place.A real Opposition party would offer something different properly costed and with the novel idea of making life better for the majority of the population by targeted taxes at those that are making fortunes from the public including the untouchable banksters and the property fiefdoms including the untouchable Royals…British people are much more diverse and don’t tolerate fools gladly even public schoolboy buffoons unless they deliver which for all the talk he delivered on the mandate to take Britain out of Europe and thats the only reason the Torys won.I have no doubt that if we had delivered our mandate we would be looking at a PM Corbyn and a entirely different country with possibly y second term no matter what the media said or retired spooks and military. The biggest mistake is to degrade and eject left wing politics and that hopfuly will be shown in a future Britain and a new working-class movement in government from the people and for the people.They will certainly deserve it after a decade of Tory asset stripping and sell offs.
If you want to know what Starmer really stands for then perhaps you could read Oliver Eagleton on Novara Media, 2/3/21.
Of course in my opinion I believe Starmer has to demonstrate to the rich and powerful that his Labour is absolutely NO THREAT to their wealth and power and all he seeks in return is crumbs for diverse working people but of course cushy, well rewarded careers for himself and his Right Wing Labour mates!
Labour in Govt (it won’t win) BUT NOT IN POWER?
And the Radical Socialist Feminist Network pose a good question in The New Left Review: Why do Right Wing Labour MPs consistently vote to bomb our Black and Brown (brothers and) sisters?
(Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria.)
I would be interested in hearing the views of other socialists on this socialist website.
Solidarity to socialists.
Bazza – I don’t want to derail this thread any more than it has been already .. but
in answer to your question there is a very different perspective of what is
going on in Afghanistan in this New Yorker piece.
It is in theory behind a pay wall but can be read nevertheless. It is very long –
but to summarise -life for Afghani women is very different in the Countryside
to life in the towns. Continual air bombardment from US and others plus
internecine murders plus Taliban murders means they have been at war for
many many years ..
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/the-other-afghan-women?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB
It is still my opinion that the Iraq war derailed any possibility of a long lasting peace
settlement there plus there was a compete lack of respect for the Afghani people.
Youre getting back on track holby fan mw and that’s very perceptive of you and I also think that it could apply to the men as well..Afghanistan has been at war for way over a century as a old photo of my grandfather shows as the welsh fusiliars make their way through the khyber pass in the Indian campaign in the late 1800, s with donkeys loaded down with ammunition and supplies.and soldiers staggering under the weight of their packs..I think that in them days the tribesmen were feared even by the empire on which the sun never sets.
That’s what the Turd Polisher does, derails and obfuscates. That’s what he gets paid for.
But of course this thread just shows him/her/them up for what they do. Maybe the Turd polisher is another Phillip Cross of Wikipedia fame. Not just a single person but a collection of paid for Trolls trying to influence debate on the Left Wing media channels.
Either way they can go screw himself/herself/themselves.
Fact: AOC would have the whip removed were she a UK Labour MP in this Starmer-led party.
Anyone doubt that?
Never trust a word that falls out of Starmer’s mouth. He lies constantly. Read this tweet….
https://twitter.com/ronanburtenshaw/status/1438536087190872067?s=20
Labour’s Green New Deal thrown out…..
baz2001 – Not really, you are exaggerating a little.
Many policy motions were submitted by local parties and affiliates to conference on the subject of a green new deal and it is set to be included on the priorities ballot, which means the policy will be debated.
But the CAC has decided that the ‘green jobs revolution’ motion specifically – which addresses unemployment and public health as well as the climate crisis – should not reach conference floor because it “covers more than one subject”.
https://labourlist.org/2021/09/labour-for-a-green-new-deal-conference-motion-ruled-out-of-order/
for god’s sake stop chasing SteveH’s meatless bones
Joseph – I trust you were joking when you said I was “getting back on track”
because I thought the purpose of Skwawkies site was to argue and discuss?
Anyway it is pointless trying to keep me “on track” for I have never in my
whole life kept to a track. From a young child I have understood what
“Labour” and “Tory” were for my parents talked and argued about it and my
aunts and uncles and grandparents too. I am from the North and with both
Irish connections and Northern “recusant” Catholic ancestry. Not only that
but my scientific and tech training has taught me to analyse and criticise ..
we were told by our lecturers that was what was expected of us.
During my childhood with a lot of people of Irish descent in the neighbourhood
the Catholics voted “Labour”(Nationalist) and the protestants Tory (Unionists). AS you
know the Labour Party has many strands and I am from both Christian and Trade
Union strands. My family and friends have had many struggles with poverty
and injustice and I try to empathise with others with the same problems – I have
never got my head round the “class struggle” – I don’t know even
what class is nowadays for most people .
Not sure if I have put a link elsewhere on this site but there is an online
conference : “Labour Left for Socialism” (LL4S) tomorrow – details on JVL. Hopefully
the issues raised on this site can be hammered out and a strategy developed.
I have always voted Labour – apart from a short time when
I voted Lib Dem on account of the Iraq war. Sorry for the long screed but
I thought it might be useful to set out my position.
Jeremy Corbyn epitomises what I have always believed is best in our political
class. I have just read a twitter from one of his constituents who told
of his staying up all night to save her and her family from being made homeless
when they fell on hard times. Of course he could not go on forever – and a while
ago I wrote extolling Barry Gardne r as a possible new Leader -. I see he is
down to talk to LL4S. I now wonder about Dawn Butler who has put down
an Early Day Motion “The Prime Minister is a Liar” so that is a good start!
WE DEFINITELY need a woman now
HolbyFanMw – Maybe Labour Members may wish to reflect on LL4S’s close association with organisations that have been proscribed by the Labour party. I don’t know whether or not support would fall fowl of any rules but it is worth bearing in mind.
We declare our solidarity with members of Socialist Appeal, Labour Against the Witchhunt, and Labour in Exile Network. While we continue to welcome Socialst Appeal in our discussions, we also invite Labour Against the Witchhunt and Labour in Exile Network to participate in our ongoing talks.
https://labourleft.org/statements-and-campaigns/future-of-the-labour-left-update/
Well Ill have to wear a disguise won’t I if there is a danger I
am on screen! But what a disgrace that the Labour Party
spies on its own ..
About the 4 organisations*** – these were judged by a Star Chamber
and then presented orally to the NEC meeting at the end of a 9 hours
session. We have no idea why these organisations were judged “toxic”
and why, if there was abuse by anyone they were dealt with.
No wonder some of the NEC in effect changed their minds and said this was not
what they wanted or thought would happen.
*** One of the Organisations was political – in competition with the Labour Party
– and membership would have automatically meant exclusion.