Analysis comment

Centrist MP Bryant gets ‘publicly owned’ after trying to be snarky about new leftist government in Peru.

Thoroughly and often

Centrist Labour MP Chris Bryant has spent the day getting owned very thoroughly on Twitter – and yet continuing to dig even deeper. When writer Alan MacLeod took Bryant to task over his awful tweet about the new leftist government in Peru, Bryant decided to try to be clever – and it backfired big-time:

‘Do you know anything about Peruvian politics?’ ‘I’ve got a PhD in Latin American Politics, lectured about it in universities, and have produced a book and five peer-reviewed journal articles’

Now most people would probably cut their losses at this point, but Bryant decided to press on:

By this point, others were joining in:

MacLeod simply continued pointing to some of his expertise on South American politics:

When MacLeod pointed out that successive British governments, including Blair’s, had funded the repression of Colombian civilians, Bryant indignantly denied it – but there was no shortage of people queuing up to put him right:

Bryant then resorted to cutting and pasting the same tweet in response to the numerous respondents backing MacLeod, but MacLeod’s supporters were in fine low:

But the tweet of the day must have been MacLeod’s closing comment:

If Chris Bryant hates socialism so much, why is he so committed to constantly getting publicly owned?

Skwawkbox supports public ownership, including of Chris Bryant.

But on a far more serious note, the history of the left in South America is a history of interference, sabotage and downright aggression by a US determined not to see socialism succeed in what it regards as its back yard, whether in Venezuela, Chile, Colombia or any other South American nation, or in Cuba in the Caribbean.

Readers who want to know more could do far worse than to read MacLeod’s writings, or those of John McEvoy who also appears above.

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  1. Bryant is an entryst Tory parasitising the Labour Party for his own careerist aims.

    John Pilger – “First, it was Julian Assange, now another truth-teller, Craig Murray, is a political prisoner. All solidarity with Craig and his family and, remember, you have been warned – again.”

  2. Years ago I experienced Socialism in Colombia first hand. I was in a ship loading bananas in Buenaventura. The locals were running up and down temporary wooden gangplanks carrying boxes of bananas by hand. I asked the local loading boss why overhead gantries weren’t used as in Costa Rica and other central American ports. He said where else would these people get jobs if they didn’t have work such as this?

    The Central American fruit trade is rumoured to be run by the Mafia, hence the automation.

  3. Chris Bryant Mandelson Evans Hodge Reeves and Straw who wrote that Craig Murray fussed too much about Human Rights, when Craig fussed about Blair’s regime obtaining “confessions” by torture, which as scientifically confirmed by York University, included BOILING the victims ALIVE. Jack Straw considered torture a triviality unlike Craig Murray.

    The types we are urged to “UNITE with for a Labour government”. Hmmm

    Can’t understand that ‘logic’ myself. Search out Malcolm Colemann’s team to explain it.

    1. Are you still a member signpost?

      So how many comments do you post on here each month on average? Five hundred? Six hundred? Must be a full-time job, eh?!

      PS And I see that yur ‘milking’ Craig Murray’s plight for all it’s worth.

      1. And what was that Coyle business all about? In case anyone didn’t see it, the following is what signpost said in one of his ‘comments’ two or three days ago:

        SIR Keith Rodney Starmer = bad Bad BAD news…. which reminds me. Len McCluskey, i expect u heard Coyne’s claim too… Anyway u heard Coyne’s unbelievable claim of not having spoken to Starmer. U would know such details.

      2. And then – after saying – ‘U would know such details’ – signpost demands that Len McCluskey:

        ‘POST ON SKWAWKBOX.ORG. Not just Unite members, but general public needs to know Coyne’s nature is unfit to print’.

        Yes, come on Len, we expect u heard Coyne’s claim too, so given that u heard it, why are keeping all of us in the dark. What have u got to hide, eh! Come on now, own up, cos u won’t get away with it! Signpost and me are on yur case, so u’d better spill the beans!!!

      3. Any relation John?!!

        Yep Johnny Thatcher, so often coming to the rescue of poor little signpost! How sweet!!

        PS by the way Johnny, do you happen to know anything about Jackie Walker taking legal action and winning a case? Signpost posted the following yesterday, and having not heard about Jackie Walker having won a case, or even having pursued a case, I asked him about it, but he didn’t respond:


      4. And do you know what the Coyne business was about Johnny – ie why he would have a reason to deny that he’d spoken to Starmer (as he did the other evening yet AGAIN according to signpost)? At 21.43 hrs (on the 29th apparently).

        Sounds very fishy to me!

      5. Allan Howard….calm down you are going off on one again and no doubt into the nocturnal hours again.For your own personal health go to bed and have a good breakfast,it will do you far more good than ranting at comrades through the night and doing the knights job for him.

  4. Great to see a Right Wing Labour careerist political lightweight crushed by arguments.
    The likes of Bryant lie prostrate at the feet of the Masters/Mistresses of capital but so generally poorly read are they that they are blissfully unaware of their political ignorance, such political imbeciles in relation to the progress of humanity may have never existed.
    We can only try and imagine the struggles the genuine indigenous Peruvian President has had to endure and Bryant is not fit to lace his boots.
    Go for it Peruvian Socialists but beware of potential strikes by capital, sabotage by the elite, and the entry of the US trotting out it’s usual script as used in Venezeula etc as US capitslist ‘Liberal’ LATIN AMERICA BULLY BIDEN interferes in another democracies whose politics don’t suit them.

  5. Chris Bryant is a nasty piece of work, with the intelligence of an amoeba. I am so glad to see him publicly owned, especially by someone as knowledgeable as Alan MacLeod.

  6. Where’s Labour’s Head Turd Polisher when Chris Bryant needs him…..?

    The disgusting Bryant was last seen whimpering into his Pimms in the Commons Bar. He’s been found out today as a Grade 1 Liar. Just like his boss Max Headroom. Everyday brings us a new perspective on the nastiness of the Labour Party.

    1. Bryant is a crank and seriously disturbed.Hes comes straight off the production line Conservative party at prayer and stamped with a private education and as conned is way to represent himself in Rhondda of all places..Nasty and a lot more,For some reason I have followed his background and carreer for some years and hes never failed to disappoint me in his twisted endeavours and cruel streak.Tory boy 👦through and through down to ex vicar,(he likes to be called priest)and ex Synod crank.True to his faith of church of England at prayer and espouses the Gospel of st Thatcher the other religious cross dressing fanatic Brother Bliar as well as anything anti working-class.How hes hung on in the Rhondda and Wales is anybodys guess.Yes mr Bryant is everything I despise and I have been fascinated for many years wondering how he belongs in the Labour party.Now I know the answer.ITs me and many others who don’t belong in the social democratic Labour party.and it took me a long time to understand that.No wonder the voters are confused..!,

  7. Meanwhile, strategy chief’s briefing before the recess: “Many senior party figures have told the Observer that the central message from Mattinson’s briefing was that victory will be impossible unless Labour finds a way to lure back millions who defected to the Tories in 2019. This can only be done if Labour adopts clearer, sharper, more uplifting messaging about the party’s values and Starmer’s vision, rather than throwing too many policy commitments at voters
    Some in Starmer’s team believe the party is still suffering damage from the Corbyn era, which ended with the 2019 defeat. Many of those who deserted, in what were previously solid Labour seats, have yet to “get to know” Starmer, say MPs”

    This is classic people telling each other what they want to hear with an eye on their own jobs. I don’t understand why anyone would employ a pollster.

    “Mattinson is understood to have stressed the need to appeal to older, non-university educated people, many of whom voted for Brexit, and for whom that debate stirred strong feelings about identity and patriotism.

    I would be very happy if someone called for the party to support EU reentry talks at conference…. that’s what they pulled on Corbyn. Will any MP give them some of their own medicine? I know the remain supporters within the party are still fanatically pro EU, so I dearly hope the aging red wall voters aren’t fooled by any rousing patriotic mush from Starmer.

    1. @lundiel

      They’ll be lucky to hold on to those 10.2m who stuck with Corbyn.

      Quote from the guardian: This can only be done if Labour adopts clearer, sharper, more uplifting messaging about the party’s values and Starmer’s vision, rather than throwing too many policy commitments at voters.


      Strikes me this is just Deborah Mattinson putting her own New Labour, HQ-pleasing spin on what’s happening and what’s required – telling those in charge what they want to hear and not what they need to hear. It’s very easy to lead impressionable politically naive focus groups, and get them to agree with your mutually contradictory positions. And Mattinson’s view certainly qualifies as being just that. As I ask below ,,, How on earth can a politician define what he or she stands for(values and vision) without clear policy positions and differentiation from their opponents?

    2. “The old none university educated” looking down on the unwashed the tactician fails to understand even the basics of the Labour party who in taking power after the war provided “Free university education” for what are now oldys as he calls us.I think hes looking for the uneducated conservative working-class voters who have slavishly doffed their hats and voted Tory all their lives.Why would they vote for a second rate tory tribute act whos leader hypocritically wears the Banner of Knight of the realm…even the uneducated are not that easily conned into voting Liebor party.

    3. Iundiel
      Nail on head, ask Red Tories when the referendum will be, there will be no other question at next GE, everything else will be drowned out by ‘same old remainiacs’
      Now I don’t think they care because their prime purpose is to make Labour unelectable, came way to close with JC

      1. Doug, it’s quite worrying that you can see Brexit collapsing around your ears and everything that Remainers predicted is coming true yet you still cling to your dinosaur beliefs which helped to bring down Corbyn.

  8. Truly a Shining Example of Thatcher’s Neoliberal Neolabour Parasite Party TORIES!
    Without their Conniving and Sabotaging we will make headway at lightning speed, they are a Massive Anchor on a Short Chain and not inly Holding Socialism Back but, Entirely Killing Socialism!

  9. Labour’s right (incl. Bryant) want to win with no policies i.e., their whole pitch is built around being better at implementing Tory policy than the Tories themselves are. They want to serve the same lobbyists, the same corporate & financial interests; have the same donors, the same media supporters. And the same foreign policy – shadowing that of the US.

    “This can only be done if Labour adopts clearer, sharper, more uplifting messaging about the party’s values and Starmer’s vision, rather than throwing too many policy commitments at voters.” – Guardian yesterday

    How on earth can a politician define what he or she stands for(values and vision) without clear policy positions and differentiation from their opponents?

    Policy-lite ‘broad aims & values’ has been tried; it’s basically centrist Miliband’s 2015 GE formula reheated. He too was scared of making policy and upsetting the party’s RW:

    A strong economic foundation
    Higher living standards for working families
    An NHS with the time to care
    Controls on immigration
    A country where the next generation can do better than the last
    Homes to buy and action on rents

    The above was inscribed in the widely mocked and derided EdStone, justifiably mocked too as it’s voter insulting platitudinous, vacuous political guff, its glibness glaringly obvious to all.

    What’s really infuriating is the fact Labour already has 10 solid foundational Pledges to which Starmer attached his signature… worthless now presumably? He lied, didn’t mean it? Oh, so why should we trust him?

  10. Steve H @boxcartrend proclaiming…the liberal values of Nigel farage.Mr Steve Hall centrist Dad obviously thinks that under the disguise of neo liberal alliance every odd fascist is a Liberal and a democrat.Strange really how the parasites in the knights Labour party espouse liberal values with neo liberal fascism.How mr Steve H as changed his tune in less than eighteen months of the knight of the realm.Sad really…!.Not heard from the lacky for a few days and even quite on Bot sentinel after being upset by Aronn Bastina and somthing he tweeted not fitting into our stevies ideology.Must be a bit windy in the windward islands Caribbean bolt hole.?

  11. The British people are in much the same position as we in the Labour party were when I voted for the dross dished up by the PLP for us to be allowed the privalage of voting for…I voted for Burgon and Bailey despite knowing that they were unsuitable and the best of a bad bunch.And I did not abstain from many did and allowed the “Plant” to control the Labour party via his enforcer evans and the bunch of parasites and misfits to his shadowy cabinet.I am extremely worried that the knight may get in control of the uk by default with an electrote tired of the usual corruption from the conservatives and the obvious mishandling of the exit from Europe.The knight is a clear and present danger to the British people and even the state.and should not have been allowed anywhere near the leadership election after less than five years a mp and even less time in the Labour party CLPS and branches.He has almost completed the mission to destroy the democratic socialist Labour party and now has is trilateral sights on the UK.

    1. Joseph – Unlike you I would be absolutely delighted if Labour won the next GE.

      1. So would I…

        …If that was the New Zealand GE. Here, I’ve every reason to fear and loathe UK labour as much as the conservatives, as there isn’t a fag paper betwixt them.

        Unless you can tell us all about any difference? 🤔

  12. Steve H centrist Dad…..Do you speak English as the first language or is it just pidgen version in the Caribbean island bolt hole?Can’t be bothered wittering or twittering so I will go and carry on with my bread oven outside now its stopped raining ☔…glad I helped you to wake up….!

  13. Mr H ….see my reply 7.16am…so I have managed to keep you up into the early hours…The overtime must be useful thats relying on the money in Labour accounts at the bank arnt filched or divied up between “friends” Any news on the missing millions comrade?

  14. ITs shocking that at your age dementia as raised its ugly head.Mr H..the NHS is still free at the point of delivery despite your efforts.Stephan I explained on numouros occasions that a thirteen and a half million poundscredit in the reserve account has suddenly become invisible without any real answers from your Superiors..The party have only enough money left to pay the wages including your low pay commission.Stephen H centrist Dad Steve H Hall we are all extremely worried as flights to Tel Aviv are still available and your knight as been known to take advantage of rich Israeli businessmen and the freebies…Will he be coming back?The Party must be told?

    1. Joseph – ……..and your proof that there is any money missing from Labour’s accounts that can’t be accounted for is?

  15. .So this is the famous Skwawbox & in today’s blog we swap hate comments masquerading as political debate. No humour; no intelligence; very few facts; just nastiness. A very depressing read first thing in the morning.

      1. I am not interested in the tawdry life of a right wing fascist and I hope many others ignore your! Low life gossip.The mans gone thats enough.Wheres your right wing fascist…on a freebie no doubt along with his shadowy cabinet…Steve H can’t make the political argument and resorts to distraction politics…..And the missing millions any real news on a novel idea of “acountabilty” ?

      2. Joseph – Thanks for taking the time to tell me how much you abhor gossip. Personally I’m quite happy to see the newspapers taking the piss out of failed Tory ministers. However it is more than a little ironic that your accusations of missing millions appear to be based on nothing more than wild speculation and gossip.
        Given your obvious passion I do find it odd that you have chosen to retire to one of the most economically and politically corrupt regimes in the world.
        If there are any questions about Labour’s finances that need answering then there will be ample opportunity to do so when the financial reports are presented at conference. There is also nothing to stop the likes of CLP Rep Laura Pidcock questioning at the regular NEC meetings how money has been spent As it is part of their duties and responsibilities they have more than likely already asked and the reason there has been no outcry from any of the NEC members is that there really is nothing to see or to be concerned about..

      3. So mr H the short answer including the kangaroo NEC is “they couldnt be arsed” to do a forensic audit of a very serious loss of millions that cannot even be explained by the mass bailouts and witchunt of members and the subs they paid.Sorry mr Hall centrist Dad its not good enough and I am sure one day soon I will be proven right that money’s of members have been strategically siphoned off by the cabel who allegedly run the Labour party….Deceit and illegality smells and your lot stink.

      4. Joseph – Be sure to come back and tell me all about it.

  16. One of Thatcher’s greatest achievements(sic) was the introduction of neoliberalism to Chile -the persecution and murder of any opponents. The military dictatorship of Pinochet was shielded by Thatcher-giving him asylum.
    Documentary called Nae Pasaran details Rolls Royce workers refusing to supply arms to the regime .Colonia shows what occurred during this period of dictatorship.

    1. Indeed SM. But the credit’s not Margaret Thatcher’s, nor even Ronald Reagan’s, but the “deep state” US Establishment’s. Chile and UK were both picked in the early 70s by the CIA and neoliberal elite in US politics to become petri dishes for a ‘new’ type of globalism. As a result, the UK ceased being an old-style nation state and became (to quote Iain Davies again): (see below)

      1. Iain Davis: “The UK State is a public-private partnership between government, financial institutions, multinational corporations, global think tanks, and well funded third sector organisations, such as so called non governmental organisations (NGO’s) and large international charities.

        “Through a labyrinthine structure of direct funding, grant making and philanthropy, the UK State is a cohesive globalist organisation that works with selected academics, scientific institutions and mainstream media (MSM) outlets to advance a tightly controlled, predetermined narrative. This designed consensus serves the the interests and global ambitions of a tiny group of disproportionately wealthy people.

        “This group of parasites, often misleadingly referred to as the “elite,” exploit all humanity for their own gain and to consolidate and enhance their power. They control the money supply and the global debt, which is a debt owed to them.

        “Human beings are forced to pay tax which, via government procurement, flows directly to the private corporations they own. War, security, infrastructure projects, education and health care provide profits and are used by the parasite class to socially engineer society.

        “Globally, they fund all political parties, with any realistic chance of gaining power, they own the MSM and spend billions lobbying policy makers.

        “Through think tanks and the actions of “independent” political activists, such as the FPAction Network, they directly fund political campaigns in exchange for the politician’s loyalty to them, not to the electorate.

        “Through their tax exempt grant making foundations, such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF), they control the scientific, medical and academic orthodoxy.

        “This global network of oligarchs is moving towards the final stages of its long held plan to construct a single global system of governance. Often referred to as the New World Order (NWO), it is a collaboration between supranational political organisations, like the United Nations and the European Union, controlled scientific authorities, such as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and the World Health Organisation (WHO), global financial institutions, including the World Bank, IMF, ECB and Bank for International Settlements (BIS), globalist organisations like the World Economic Forum (WEF), NGO’s like the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) and policy making thinks tanks such as the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), Club of Rome and the Trilateral Commission.

        “The UK State is one, prominent tentacle of the emerging global governance system……”

        (As democratic socialists how can we not be alert to this (and recognise the role of the covid narrative in establishing the new world order that is “the end of history” and the ascendancy of a new globo-capitalist fascism?)

      2. qwertboi
        It’s a Ponzi scheme
        Question for us is what happens next, dont mind saying I am truly fucked if I know, I have not a Scooby Doo

      3. Doug, what happens next is that democratic socialists, liberals and indeed everyone who is harmed by this global capitalist bio-security fascism that covid is being used to facilitate, oppose and resist. No more buying their lies. Covid is about as dangerous as seasonal ‘flu (to about the same numbers of people), the testing of it (CPR technology) is being used inappropriately to produce meaningless ‘evidence’, masks are bad for your infectability and general health, social distancing is not a containment measure.

        We simply recognise the deception for what it is and then do what we do best: Resist for the Many, not the Few. We are sure to win (eventually), for we are many and they are few, we have good science theirs is bad science bad, we have hope they have misinformation, fear, unnecessary death and oppression.

      4. qwertboi – Oh dear, have you been on the antivax/covid-denier conspiracy sites again.

  17. qwertboi, I take exception at your assumption that “Covid is as about as dangerous as seasonal flu”. I’m afraid I will not get into any debate about your nonsensical statement but it is not correct. My elderly Mother died from Covid last year, every year of her life she caught seasonal flu and survived it quite easily with no lasting effects. One of my friends, 50yrs, died from it this year. He was a 10km per day fell runner and extremely fit. My sister and brother in law caught it and nearly died if it wasn’t for the wonderful NHS medical staff that tended them. I know fit people who have been laid so low with it they cannot walk a few meters without needing to sit down. It most definitely is a killer, and I truly hope you never catch it and remain healthy for the rest of your life.

    All the best.

    1. bbaz2001, I am very sorry to learn of your mother’s death.

      My statement is, I’m afraid, not “nonsensical”. Clearly covid causes death, but its infection rate and its infection-to-fatality (IFR) ratio are both much lower than that of (say) seasonal ‘flu over the previous 16 years.

      Please understand, I am not saying that the illness caused by SARS-cov2 is not dangerous to people . It is! I’m saying it’s dangerous to an easily identifiable set of people who, for the most part, are not being offered the relevant protection and, if they become ill, the best treatment. (For my sins I work in a field very relevant to virological medicine and research, and (I’m also a qualified medical doctor, but not practicing in mainstream medicine) volunteer to work especially with people who are themselves immuno-compromised, and as such are some of the most susceptible people to covid).

      I am saying that the pandemic management policies pursued in the UK are, in many regards, so wrong (based on bad science), they actually increase the IFR of covid, and that the health threat of covid is being used by politicians (and others) to promote non-medical objective(s) which, if it were seen, would anger us all – and perhaps result in better pandemic management and fewer deaths.

      Once again, I am very sorry that covid has caused so much harm for you and your loved ones. Perhaps if SAGE and the PM were implementing a better, clinically sound, virus-containment programme, covid deaths in UK would not be as high as they are.

      1. qwertboi – “(I’m also a qualified medical doctor, but not practicing in mainstream medicine)”

        Thank f; for that!
        Does that mean you are what is more commonly known as a Quack?

      2. @SteveH – no, I am a Koln- and Edinburgh- universities trained allopathic doctor of medicine, but I am not “mainstream” because I will not prescribe the ubiquitous use of pharmaceutical “medicines”.

        I’m a doctor of biochemistry and have for 6 or seven years been working in nanotechnology on AgNP (silver nano particles) and their use in pharmacological protocols and medicines.

        Also, as you maybe don’t know, the only man ever to receive TWO Nobel prizes (only one in chemistry tho’), took the accusation of quackery (by two pharmaceutical corporations in America) as a compliment and, reportedly, developed the paradigms of orthomolecular and functional medicine in direct response.

        So, from some people, a designation as a ‘quack’ can be a great compliment. Should I take it as that from you?

      3. SteveH
        Congratulations you are now publicly owned, we knew you would come over to the dark/JC side eventually

  18. >>Covid is about as dangerous as seasonal ‘flu (to about the same numbers of people), the testing of it (CPR technology) is being used inappropriately to produce meaningless ‘evidence’, masks are bad for your infectability and general health, social distancing is not a containment measure.

    Oh so them 150,000 people aged down to kids die every year according to YOU so lets look at last year OOPS oh dear where was the mass deaths if it’s the same as seasonal Flu if your going to post your lies about covid at least make sure they are beliverable. People like you are dangerous.

    I have a simple challenge prove you believe these BS go work on a red ward for a week with no masks if that is what you believe. If after a week you are still covid free we might listen to your ravings.

    But as most liers like on UKnews and FOX they keep up the lies about covid all while demanding there staff and every guest iis vaccinated. I bet if we ran your blood magically the markers for a vaccine is found within.

    So I suggest you go put on your nice tin foil hat and leave the keyboard alone.

    1. You’re maybe caricaturing my points, grandad, and reading them as if I’m an anti-vaxxer’, ‘covid-denier’ or rabid conspiracy theorist – just like the MSM tell you to characterise any non-compliance/questioning of the official covid narrative.

      The subject (and covid deception) is very large and mostly about health, medicine, virology and epidemiology – BUT – one smple suggestion for you –

      Find someone who can effectively navigate their way round the ONS website and get the total death figures from Jan 2020. If covid is as virulent as we are told, the total deaths for 2020 – to date will be higher than it was for other recent peiod(s). It isn’t 2020 had the third-lowest total deaths number of any year since 2001 (and the 12th lowest in my 60 year life). How can this be true? Surely, a very virulent virus like the new ‘novel’ SARS-CoV-2 causes a lot of death over and above other causes of death (e.g. ‘flu, bronchitis, cancer, diabetes, heart attacks, old age, etc, etc..)? (and look up deaths from the causes too, thy’ve practically stopped killing people). How can this be? Maybe the covid narrative is not an honest narrative.

      1. I have had two brothers die and they were like sardines in a infected can in the care homes.My neice said at that time all with chronic complaints and chest infections,and flu like symptoms were deemed CV 19 at the care homes if they died.I think I will respect the judgment of a senior medical professional who visited her two my neice and the thousands of other medical professionals who have questioned the wisdom of this lunatic government.Many people risk ostricisation and carreers by simply telling the truth and not being bullied..Any difference of medical opinions gets labelled Anti vaxer and right wing fascist.querboi well done for having the courage to speakout and inform the posters on Squawbox.We must have alternative views thats democracy not fascism.

      2. Thanks Joseph. I appreciate your support.

        FWIW I know of 16 NHS consultants and GPs who have publically spoken out against the Covid Narrative’s scientific errors and mis-information and have been suspended or sacked for so doing. They are threatened with lloss of pension (which apparently, the 2020 Coronavirus Act allows). Their trade unions, BMA, and three of them as individuals are being offered “crowdfunding” support by thousands of UK citizens. (The British Medical Association is not afiliated to the TUC and is, reportedly, quite eager to support their “scurilous” members in their dispute with the Simon Stevens and the NHS and to challenge the government’s near-criminal Covid Narrative).

    2. Grandad
      15 million vulnerable people have now been double jabbed, that was the end of game for me
      90 million jabs delivered which means 60 million doses which could have saved lives in the countries where they are needed have been given to people like me who don’t need it, that’s why I refused it
      What say you to those who took someone else’s jab, condemned them to almost certain death, the likes of you are responsible for 60 million needless deaths and counting

      1. Doug – Have you managed to convince your family yet that your selfish choice not to be vaccinated isn’t putting them at risk

      2. Stevieh, I’m confused. How can Doug’s decision to not be vaccinated put his family at risk? A vaccine by definition provides (only) a vaccinated person with either i) reduced chance of infection, or, if it fails to do that, ii) a reduced level of illness which would be less debilitating or life-threatening?

        In the UK as of 27 July 2021, NHS doctors are recording that 4,023 of their vaccinated patients have died within 28 days of receiving vaccination (the youngest was 34yo, average age 71yo), so perhaps the danger is from an untested, emergency-approved (Coronavirus Act 2020) vaccine rather than the possibility that some people might chose not to take the experiemental mRNA-changing drug therapy jab being called a vaccine, but which has noy yet undergone the minimum 6 year post-pilot testing required for full approval and for a patient to be able to make an ‘informed choice’.

      3. qwertboi – There is also a reduced viral load if you get it after being vaccinated which means you are far less likely to infect others. Plus as you know no vaccine is 100% effective so if Doug gets Covid-19 then there is always the chance that they could get infected.
        Don’t you think its a bit late to be still claiming that the Pfizer jab is experimental and untested?

      4. @steveH: “There is also a reduced viral load if you get it after being vaccinated which means you are far less likely to infect others”

        That is unknown (of course the pharmaceutical providers will claim it though). The whole point of the phase 1 testing (which for the AZ product doesn’t end until 31 Nov, 2022) is to measure that (they call it “efficacy testing”) and it is only adjudged true if it happens in at least 5,000 people or at least 60% of the phase-1 test population. It is too soon to know atm,

        (Also, is SAGE not claiming that asympomatic people can nevertheless infect others (doesn’t happen with any other virus in any mammal species? I’d say this is an example of the ‘bad science’ that many accuse them of.)

        On your second point, with the annual ‘flu vaccination, we model an estimated reduced infection (that a vaccine provides) and it is estimated to be 12%. Given that Covid’s infection rate is very low (between 0.20 per cent and 0.35 per cent) (it takes many thousands of people to become seriously ill with covid for one of them to die from it), a 12% reduction in infection would be very few people.

        ” Don’t you think its a bit late to be still claiming that the Pfizer jab is experimental and untested?

        No. It is ‘experimental’ (still) for two reasons:

        a) It is the very first use of an mRNA-changing drug on humans. Pfizer and Modena (in collaboration with the Chinese State pharmaceutical lab (based in Wuhan btw)) previously developed a similar mRNA-changing drug that was tested on sheep, white rabbits, rats, guinea pigs (remarkably similar livers to humans) and 200 American death-row prisoners (who each received a six year delay in their execution) and it failed to reduce the infection rates against a synthesised MERS-type coronavirus, it made all of the sheep infertile and caused pancreatic cancer in 10% of the human testers that received the vaccine).

        b) Every ‘untested’ medication is labeled “experimental” until testing is completed.The WHO definition of “tested” requires two phases of ‘efficacy’ and ‘effect’ testing to be completed and this takes between 6 – 12 years and is measured against criteria agreed with the pharmaceutical developer and the CDC/EDA or a specified “third party”. By that reasoning, the soonest I might consider using the AZ, Pfizer or Modena ‘vaccine’ is December 2028. Until then the AZ and the Modena and the Pfizer vaccines are considered “untested”, which is why the UK and USA (and EU, Australia, Korea, and others) passed legislation to allow “emergency” use of the untested pharmaceuticals.

        As a final point, SteveH, I think you and I might be the right age group to have peers whose mothers took thalidomide. It was the horrendous results of that tranquiliser and the fact that its developer the West German pharmaceutical company Chemie Grünenthal GmbH was not required to do any ‘effect’ testing, that caused the UK, USA and Germany to champion the devellopment of a rigorous testing regime for pharmaceutical products. No disease which has a lower IFR than about 5 would encourage me to take an untested vaccine for it – and remember, VOVID’s IFR is between 0.20 and 0.35 per cent. A possibly dangerous untested vaccine for a disease with such a low fatality figure is, for me, just not worth the risk.

      5. qwertboi
        You on Covid19 and JVL on AS Scam have saved my sanity on numerous occasions,
        Do you support a Sanity Clause on here

      6. Doug – The last resort of many an oppressive and authoritarian regime who have lost the argument.
        (and the odd keyboard warrior who has run out of steam)

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