Analysis comment

Right-wing Wilson attacks Lavery over Hartlepool article: ‘you nearly lost your seat’ – after losing his own in 2019

Phil Wilson admitted in 2019 that his anti-Brexit fervour was Sedgefield driving votes away, yet attacks one of the few Labour MPs who warned against it for writing about Labour’s disconnection from working-class people in nearby Hartlepool

Former Sedgefield MP Phil Wilson on the night he lost his seat in 2019

Former Blairite MP Phil Wilson has been ‘owned’ on social media after launched a ‘snark attack’ on working-class MP Ian Lavery, after Lavery dared to write about Labour’s disconnection from working-class voters and the problems the party faces in the Hartlepool by-election.

Lavery’s Tribune article warned that “Hartlepool wants real change, not empty words” – and that Labour’s ‘lost touch with its working-class roots’ under Starmer means that the party is in danger of losing the working-class north-east town to the Tories.

Wilson – in an echo of last week’s ‘coordinated’ attacks on working-class MP Jon Trickett and union leader Dave Ward for speaking out about Hartlepool and working people – posted a snide tweet criticising Lavery and rounding off with a comment on Lavery’s narrow majority in 2019.

But Wilson did lose his seat in 2019, as was quickly pointed out in tweets like these that ‘owned’ the Blairite Wilson:

Phil Wilson’s biggest vote share in his entire career as an MP came in the ‘Corbyn surge’ of 2017 when Labour promised to enact Brexit properly

And Wilson – who co-authored the infamous ‘Kyle-Wilson agreement’ pushing a new referendum – knew full well why he was losing Sedgefield voters even before the result, telling the Guardian:

Lavery, by contrast, was one of a small group of Labour MPs who had warned consistently of the damage that Labour’s Starmer-driven Brexit u-turn was going to do to the party’s number of parliamentary seats. He didn’t have responsibility to ‘take’ for that damage – that was entirely down to the mostly right-wing MPs like Wilson and Starmer, who pushed for the u-turn despite the warnings of Lavery, along with Jon Trickett and others.

Phil Wilson’s biggest vote-share in his entire parliamentary career came, not under Tony Blair, but in the ‘Corbyn surge’ of 2017 when Labour promised to enact Brexit properly.

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    1. You the same steveh complained the referendum was ‘undemocratic’ because ‘only ‘37% voted to leave?

      If not, then perhaps you’d care to expand on why was it “Good” that I acknowledged that the said percentage voted out?

      Let’s hear it.

      1. Still no reply here, or on the previous thread…

        …Please God he’s finally done the Frank Bough after his latest exposure as a serial liar & obfuscator.

      2. Toffee – That’s easy. I was simply taking the piss out of you and your ongoing dispute at the time with RH. Nowhere have I mentioned that these abstentions invalidated the referendum. You are more than welcome to try and prove me wrong.

      3. Toffee – Patience is a virtues, We’ve been enjoying dinner and a few glasses of wine.

      4. Nope. Not having it liar. You’ve had an hour or more and that’s all you can do. Pitiful.

        The last time I exposed this particular lie if yours you offered a different, equally piss poor excuse (can’t remember exactly what it was but totally different to today’s effort).

        So, why was it ‘good to see I acknowledged’ that only 37% voted leave?

      5. Toffee – Did I really, maybe you can manage to come up with some ‘proof’ this time. I await your reply.

      6. Toffee – obviously, had to check his notes, on that one.

      7. *sighs*

        Still resorting to your worn-out method of outright denial in the face of the evidence.

        If it wasn’t ‘good to see I acknowledged’ 37% voted leave’ , WHY would you say so if you hadn’t whinged about it before, or even if you didn’t agree with it?

        At least you managed to change your excuse this time.

      8. Toffee – So you keep claiming Yosserian, what other reason have I given?

      9. “We’ve been enjoying dinner and a few glasses of wine”.

        Don’t lie. Everybody knows you’re teminally single!

      10. Thats’s not quite true, timfrom.

        He had dinner with at least one of his multiple personalites. 🤪

  1. Strange how the Centrist scum want everyone to forget about the Corbyn Surge of the June 2017 General Election, but seem happy to keep pointing to the dire 2019 Result, despite the fact it was the LP’s Brexit position that trashed its chances, a position driven by the Centrist scum.

    Can’t make this shit up I’m afraid, and still its all Corbyn’s fault, despite him now sitting as an Independent MP courtesy of the main driver of the shit Brexit position, namely, one Sir Keith Stalin.

    i people wonder why I detest Centist and Rightist scum!

    Liar the lot of em.

    1. It was exactly That 2017 Surge that kicked the Monstrous International Machine into Action, Corbyn and supporters became fresh meat and target to The Rabid Strays from Hell! That was when the Blair/Campbell/Mandelson Spin Factory REALLY kicked in.
      I will only believe the Results if Every 650 Polling Stations’ 22:00 to 23:00 traffic routes to the Counting Centre has been Tracked and Verified! I still believe we were Robbed blind!
      This is why!

      1. It is not unreasonable to suspect that those who have the run of things are as dishonest with the voting system as they are with everything else. However, suspicion is just suspicion, we need to make sure the voting and vote counting are transparent, and that is certainly not the case at the moment. Conclusion, the Left need to look closely at these processes and demand transparency.

      2. That can very easily be remedied John, a campaign to insist (as most cars takes 3 Passengers) The leading 3 MPs/Candidates of each Polling Station accompanies the Returning Officer and Ballot Box to the Counting Station. That would at the very least prevent suspicions. I have spoken to several “Labour” GE officers who were all totally ignorant to the risk involved in ~650 Ballot Boxes being driven A to B by 1 Person responsible and absolutely no Security/Supervision/Escort they only insist that everyone is “Independent” and “very trustworthy” and “have been doing their jobs for years”, well that still does not fill me with one bit of confidence, but yeah, escorts of competing Parties, is the only easy fix I can think of.

  2. To be honest I am so finished with this Sham of a labour party I actually refuse to share any of there bullshit! What is the point NOW?

      1. Toffee – I’m still waiting to see the evidence that supports your assertions.

      2. You’re the one claiming people are flocking to join the party.

        Not even the friendly MSM are doing so; and how many people on here have said they’ve joined because if slimy bastard, hmmm?

        Still denying the evidence like some sort of idiot savant.

        The difference is, an idiot savant excels in at least one area. You can’t even tell lies with any degree of skill, and constant denial is something even a toddler is capable of.

        That’s why I label you the wee fella.

    1. I accept that but still think we socialists have to stick together, those in and those outside the party

    2. I think the vast majority of us are Democratic Socialist Ex-UK Labour Party Members, if we put our energies together, we can vote Thatcher’s Neolabour Party Tories out, the seat might go to the Conservative Tory, for the short term, but that Tory is out of our Democratic Socialist Party and not causing no end of damage.
      We’ will have a smaller but far more Powerful Democratic Socialist UK Labour Party and Socialist Candidates ready to take all those seats back at the following GE for as long as we have breath we have hope! Dreamy or radical/whatever it may seem but it’s a starting point. We don’t have to be Members of The Neolabour Party to destroy them just as they destroyed UK Labour Party.

      1. Now that is the attitude we need to bring to the fight, the right wing scum do. Look at their main representative here little stevie, his trolling and outright lying should tell you all you need to know about the Right. But the thousands who have been removed from the party on the back of lies are there to tell you that our enemy within is in for the kill and we had better get ruthless about fighting back.

      2. john – First of all I wouldn’t consider myself to be on the RW (I voted for Corbyn and his policies, I didn’t support the coup) and secondly I have yet to see any credible evidence from anyone on this site that I have lied. As I’ve said to others you are more than welcome to try and prove otherwise but until then please desist from making unfounded accusations.

      3. Absolutely, we’re down to 10/15 UK Labour Party MP while Thatcher’s Parasite Neolabour Tory Party Occupies 90/95%.
        Either we vote everyone of them out regardless or we watch Democratic Socialism walk out the HoP for good!

  3. So many middle class luvvies refused to accept the referendum and the failure of our system in its alienation of the poorest. And the private school lads are the ones that are in the vanguard of tory community assassination

    1. Do you mean the referendum that would more than likely have been ‘set aside’ by the Justices of the Supreme Court in Dec16 if it had been anything but advisory.
      The High Court had a totally unprecedented 200+ petitions to have the result ‘set aside’ but ruled that they couldn’t pass judgement because the referendum had no standing in law it was therefore purely political decision whether to enact its result or not. It was not a matter of law.

      1. Temporary traffic lights are ‘advisory’ , little fella.

        But if you get collared going through them on red, you’re still subject to a charge of dangerous driving..

  4. The nutty EU fanatics just refuse to accept reality, just look at centrist dad, Walsh and Co on here. You can post any evidence you like, it doesn’t make the slightest difference. Walsh was even babbling about rejoining the other day. I’m fine with this as they’re just going to fuck up even more, let’s see them blame it on Corbyn and antisemitism.

  5. It wasn’t be ‘babbling’ It was a survey of LP members – you know, the people that make up our party.

      1. 99% of the members didn’t get a vote on the second referendum shithousery.

        Those few delegates that did were mainly beneficiaries of right wing rigged selection processes.

        But no howls of that particular vote being undemocratic, despite the same middle class remain hypocrites demanding OMOV.

    1. That’s difficult these days. How do you know who’s a Member, and who isn’t?

      I’m not, even, sure if I’m, still, a Member or not.

  6. We have to get our heads straight, The Referendum was a Scam after Scam after Scam! The whole thing has been designed to cause Division and Chaos! From the Campaigning to handing it to Boris Fucking Johnson, anyone who thinks The Ogre has done a better Job than Corbyn would’ve is nuts! There would have been a whole new team appointed for the deal, I’m sure, Corbyn saw through Starmer & Co as much as we did! A Decent Deal vs Art 40 with a well informed Public re both Leave/Remain the Benefits/Consequences. That deal I am pretty sure would have won again, many like me voted Remain, but since seeing The Neoliberal EU under a Microscope for a few years, I would have changed my vote to accept Labour’s Deal. Obviously no one expected the deal to land in the hands of Mr “We pulled it off, didn’t we, we pulled it off”!
    If we look at the Blair/Mandelson/Campbell Remain Division Scam, they literally had Remainers frothing at the mouth, about 2nd Ref and all that even though they all knew Corbyn was dedicated to the overwhelming votes at Conference for a Confirmatory Vote [Wonder how many screechers now wish they had that damned thing], Corbyn already committed to the Democratic Votes which won overwhelmingly again at Conference 2019 for a Confirmatory vote. Now the Question is what was the Hysteria about 2nd Ref All About!?
    Nothing short of Hysteria, Fearmongering and Anger all Frothed Up ready to lash out, their Frustrations at the Leavers/Brexiteers everyone in a Wild Frenzy to the point that they did not hear a single word Corbyn said! So Frenzied that they did not see Blair/Mandelson/Campbell and the rest of the Tories Smirking and Sniggering at the chaos that they caused over something that these People already had! Utter, Utter Madness!
    And here we go again, every time fucking Remain/Brexit is mentioned People froth up and point fingers, LET IT GO! FFS! JUST LET IT GO!
    We can’t Change it, it is done! We Lost GE2019, it’s Done! Our Party is Occupied by Thatcherite Tories no better than The Buffoon Churchill Wannabe who is taking us into all sorts of wars and don’t think for a moment the Occupying Tories would be any different, just look at their voting record! They ALL work for The Machine/Elites/Establishment NOT for The People, The People are their Pawns to be slaughtered “for Queen and Country”, in Greedmongers Wars!
    The People ARE BROKEN! We need to let the shit that is done go, we need to rise above divides they hold between us! We need to Unite, with a Plan to Destroy the Parasite Party within our UK Labour Party! Let’s not Allow The Machine/Elites/Establishment and their lackeys get between us!

    1. skellyknelly. Correct, the referendum was a scam, a right wing scam but since this is a ‘Leave’ site because of Skwawky’s obsession with Leave, Leave fanatics on here would have you believe that Leave was the view of the left. In fact the majority of the left supported Remain. A few Labour MPs on the left such as Lavery, when they realised Farage had caught them napping and got at their constituents with his racist propaganda before they could get their act together, switched from Remain to Leave in an attempt to save their skins.

      Covid, apart from the violence in Ulster, is masking that Brexit is probably the greatest example of self-harm the UK has inflicted in many decades.

      1. I think we just need to let it go, currently there are bigger fish to fry and to keep harping on about what we can do nothing about, is just dividing us further and wasting time.
        Just as Many “Left” Democratic Socialists wanted to get out of The Neoliberal EU as those who wanted to stay. This is what Blair/Mandelson/Campbell are good at because they have all the TV Luvvies on tap ready to create another split “The Posh Left” vs” The Scum Left” The People of ‘The Sun’ and The People of ‘The Sun’ in Lamb’s Clothing [aka The Guardian], we can’t change it, we have work to get back together, as far as I am concerned anyone in England and Wales who did not vote UK Labour Party in 2019 for whatever reason brought The Inbred Ogre on themselves, we got exactly what people voted for, unless I am right that we were Robbed Blind, if not we got what we voted for. We can come together and fix it or bicker about bygones and fix nothing at all.

      2. No, comrades here are not in the main “leave fanatics” they are mostly like me, originally reluctant remainers, who saw the writing on the wall, it was the remain fanatics who pushed the second referendum political suicide policy dangled in front of them by their political enemies inside and outside the party.

      3. Jack we are not all “Leave fanatics” and I just expected nievly that the Labour party who supposedly under a socialist leader would honour a majority vote to leave.The Labour party forgot its roots and showed not one fig of respect for my vote and the millions of working class people that voted to end the neo liberal alliance of capital in the EU…..The rest of the argument is History and over with…Finito…!

  7. A confirmatory vote would’ve been only slightly less damaging as a 2nd ref vote.

    Remember the owld girl: “Oh god! Not another one!?” ? she summed up exactly how pissed off the nation was with not being listened to.

    And Ill NEVER let the stammerite betrayal go.


      1. Steve H jeremys “betrayels”as you say was the signs of a leader who never understood that the right wing Labour party that he had worked diligently for over half a century were no better than the Torys and were equally just as ruthless and cruel.And thats why the Broad church brigade along with the fake left committed political suicide…Carry on sipping your wine watch the sun 🌞 go down in your Caribbean bolt hole.

      2. And what about….Keith’s betrayal?

        The one YOU supported WITHOUT having YOUR say, DESPITE your ‘demands’ for OMOV?


    1. I totally get that, but are you happy with The Fruits of GE2019’s results, even purely Brexit speaking, Surely not? A Brexit Deal that is destroying NI, Farmers, Fisheries and Businesses screwed Over and in turmoil, The City crying that Brexit is hitting them worse than they thought, who will end up fixing THAT bill? US The People, Trade relationships with EU in a Mess, literally put us in a bad light with all EU nations, under these circumstances would you say no to an opportunity to Vote Against BoJo’s Deal?
      As a Brexiteer, who did not jump on the Galloway/Farage Bandwagon, did not fight about anything other than getting UK Labour Party into Nr10 and Corbyn as PM, I am 100% Convinced with a Corbyn and Team Leave’s Deal, we would have left the EU, because Lavery, Trickett, McDonald, Pidcock, Smith, etc, etc would have been the new front bench and Deal Negotiators. The Starmerists would have been back on the benches where they belonged, well out the bloody back door is where they belong, but Corbyn saw them just as we did, he trusted humanity, but now he knows Tories no matter which Party, has no humanity!

      1. We shouldn’t forget that Labour also did it’s best to ignore the existence of the 2019 MEP elections.

        What we could have had
        European Election Voting Intention IF Labour ‘Became Pro Remain and Promised an in/out 2nd Referendum’:
        LAB: 36% (+12)
        BXP: 30% (-2)
        CON: 11% (=)
        LDM: 9% (-6)
        NAT: 4% (=)
        CHUK: 3% (-1)
        UKIP: 3% (+1)
        GRN: 2% (-4)
        Via @ComRes, 17 May. Changes w/ Regular poll.
        11:19 AM – 21 May 2019

        If this had been the result we would have had a left wing President of the European Commission (check out the Party of European Socialists (PES) manifesto a substantial part of which was written by Corbyn). Besides a PES president making the negotiations easier regardless of the Brexit outcome what happened to Labour’s solidarity with EU socialist and perhaps more important Labour would have been seen as winners rather than dithering losers. It could have had a substantial impact on the outcome of the 19GE.

      2. As far as I remember there were 2 Bandwagons Both making an equal amount of undesirable Noise:
        Blair/Campbell/Mandelson’s Remain Bandwagon
        Galloway/Farage Brexit Bandwagon
        I blame these 2 Bandwagons Equally, because their noise was so loud, adding to the already constant onslaught from all Establishment directions, no one could hear what Jeremy was warning them about, basically everything that happened thus far.
        Do you think that the uncharacteristically assault on Jeremy by Galloway, at that crucial time and his alliance with Farage might have had some sway in the fact that almost every seat had a Farage Brexit MEP in it, oh and also I seem to remember that all the UK Labour Candidates were hardcore Blairite Remainers!
        Excuses? No! Just reminding you of conveniently forgotten Facts!

      3. skellyknelly – Well one side had the support of over 70% of Labour voters (very clearly stated on camera by Corbyn on at least 2 occasions since he stepped down) and the other didn’t.
        As Corbyn has admitted Labour’s eventual stance was inevitable so who thought that the month after bloody month of ‘constructive ambiguity’ (FFS) would be a good idea.
        Does anyone still take Galloway seriously? meowe

      4. Centrist dad, you’ve just proved your lunacy. You won’t accept facts. Europe is a neoliberal technocratic assembly that can’t stay as it is, fact. In order to change the EU you’d have to tear up the Maastricht treaty and all the laws that have been enacted since, fact. In order to dump the treaty you’d need the agreement of every member states parliament, fact. Germany and France will never tear up the Maastricht treaty because their economic dominance would be removed, fact. It’s not about political groupings in the European parliament, it’s about nation state economics, fact.
        The EU will either implode into s small exclusive federation or collapse altogether, I predict the former. Britain would never join a federation. The Euro isn’t feasible in the long term, it requires a different economic model to work for the poor countries who only stay because of investment which is going to be seriously curtailed once Covid budget constraints are applied.

      5. Well said lundiel! For most, like my self The EU consisted of The European Court of Human Rights and the occasional babbling on about it, not ever knowing much about the Political Motivations behind it, especially those of us Completely out of the Mainstream. So most of us were thinking Human Rights rather than the bigger picture, which is actually the destruction of Human Rights, ie Julian Assange happened on the EU’s watch and orchestrated by “Don’t you dare get cold feet!!!” himself! When voting came I for one just wanted to protect our Human Rights and totally ignorantly and foolishly voted Remain!
        After having seen The EU under Microscope for some Time, the warts were showing and then the Announcement came from Conference, I was overjoyed that many like me would have an opportunity to Vote for a Leave Deal, but not just any old deal an open, transparent and well informed deal.
        However then GE2019 voting came a Cacophony of Hysteria, Bandwagons, Lies, Smear, International Government Interference, A Tory Minister who knew, about International interference and did sweet naff all about it because of his hate for the ‘mark’, etc, etc, etc and EITHER We The People Fucked Up OR We were Robbed Blind by The Machine!
        The only Remedy I can think of is for us ‘The People’ not left/right, not working class/whatever class, not Blair & Murdoch’s Sun People or Campbell/Mandelson’s The Sun in Lambskin Luvvies, not Leave/Remain, etc just The People.
        The People who will take up the Crimson Standard from our hand, when we Fall, and carry on Marching Forward until The People Govern!
        Together as one or not at all.

      6. Yes, unfortunately the madness of the EU is there when you look rather than take the media nonsense for granted. Economically it’s wonderful for Germany and to a lesser extent France who can export their unemployment to poorer nations whose citizens also do all the shit work they don’t want to do. For most other countries it’s shine soon wears off, they are constricted to balanced budgets and permanent austerity, their young all leave and global corporations milk them and move on. The EU’s foreign policy is an absolute basket case. They place sanctions on Syria forcing millions of people to leave causing massive migration problems for European countries. The same is true for Libya. If you rely on the Guardian for your world view you’d imagine the EU was a liberal upholder of human rights and champion of the poor. Africans would tell you a different story, Europe has locked them out and kept them poor. The dream of a United States of Europe would be a nightmare.

      7. Exactly Linda! They are The Machine!
        They are so perfectly described, along with the usual suspects, as ‘The War Pigs’ here from 1970 and still fact today, my own “Conspiracy” belief is that The United Nations is “The Temple where the Witches Gather for their Black Masses”!

        War Pigs – Black Sabbath
        Generals gathered in their masses
        Just like witches at black masses
        Evil minds that plot destruction
        Sorcerer of death’s construction
        In the fields, the bodies burning
        As the war machine keeps turning
        Death and hatred to mankind
        Poisoning their brainwashed minds
        Oh lord, yeah!

        Politicians hide themselves away
        They only started the war
        Why should they go out to fight?
        They leave that role to the poor, yeah
        Time will tell on their power minds
        Making war just for fun
        Treating people just like pawns in chess
        Wait till their judgement day comes, yeah!

        Now in darkness, world stops turning
        Ashes where their bodies burning
        No more war pigs have the power
        Hand of God has struck the hour!

        Day of judgement, God is calling
        On their knees, the war pigs crawling
        Begging mercy for their sins
        Satan laughing, spreads his wings
        Oh lord, yeah!


        They try to make us believe that we are small insignificant, smaller in number, than them. We just need drop our shit and get 2017 and No To Trump back, it made them quake and as I believe it made them Steal GE2019 from The People!
        Where else in History has the blatantly unpopular candidate simply given up on doing any more debates/interviews!? The guy was literally chased and booed out of Towns, had to use the stage entrance for the amount of Corbyn Supporters were outside the Front, where were his masses!? EVER!? and he stWe were Robbed that is that so ill “won”!
        Now we can only campaign for secure GE Voting and Remove Every Thatcherite Neoliberal Neolabour Party Tory from their seat in OUR The People’s Party! Unless anyone can come up with a good idea to get them out ASAP and without the pain of a Temporarily smaller Party.
        We either Blew OR Were robbed of the Overnight Option, now we must be prepared to suffer temporality, for long-term change. For as long as those Thatcherite Tory Parasites are in our Party they will be sabotaging, conniving, smearing and preventing us from getting to Nr10!
        We must Unite and Stand as ONE Again! WE CAN DO IT!

  8. When Corbyn became Leader he could do no wrong in the eyes of most Socialists. Our enthusiasm and Corbyn’s humility and good nature rubbed off on vast numbers of the electorate, many of whom were young and had never voted. Therefore his enemies had to go all out to change the perception that Corbyn would make a good PM. Consequently an almighty smear campaign was planned and launched on two fronts which ran hand in hand.

    First, the Israel Lobby in Labour, backed up by the Zionist media smeared the hell out of him and when he capitulated to them by ditching some of his own supporters they though it was Christmas and wanted even more, which Corbyn gave them.

    Second, in the interim between the Brexit vote and us leaving, more information had become available about the damaging consequences and as a result, opinions had started to shift. The far right, led by Farage who had frightened the hell out of the less well informed by telling them their plight was down to the influx of immigrants from Europe, sensing that the Brexit vote could be reversed, went all out, assisted by some on the left it has to be said, to shout that a second or confirmatory vote would be undemocratic and a theft of their original choice. It would have been too much democracy for them to allow voters to change their mind!

    Because we have an overwhelmingly right wing media, these campaigns were so successful that by the time of the 2019 election, Corbyn had been mortally wounded. Therefore coupled with his capitulation over anti-Semitism and his indecision over Brexit, many of the electorate simply wouldn’t listen to him. When I was out canvassing in different parts of the country, voters, mainly the older ones, said if his own MPs want him out why should I vote for him? Had he held his ground against the far right and the Israel Lobby, and been more decisive and not allowed his authority to be trashed, he would have had much more respect when making the case for a second vote in whatever form it took.

    So the contention it was a U turn on the referendum which did the damage is wrong, that’s how the far right and other Brexit fanatics wanted to portray it. It was simply an acknowledgement by Corbyn that in the three and a half years between the referendum and the GE, there had been a gradual change of opinion which needed to be considered, a view which was supported by most LP members.

    Unfortunately because Corbyn was so broken by then and had made too many mistakes, Labour was rightly viewed by the electorate as split. Mainly down to a rotten core of Labour Zionists, and those right wingers in the ‘back room’ plotting against the left, plus people such as John McDonnell and Len McCluskey who wouldn’t stand up to them, the result of the 2019 election became inevitable.

    1. Exactly Jack, it was so blatantly obvious who the Popular Candidate was, The Establishment would do absolutely anything not to have a Socialist in Nr 10. I dread to think of what their plan of action looked like. We have to learn from GE2019!
      1. No Matter how many more Votes a Socialist Gets, they WILL ALWAYS LOSE! Unless we Fix the Flaws!
      2. The GE System needs to be made secure by use of multi-agency and open source.
      3. Not only did they want to send out the Message that Socialists are the Minority for their Pride and Prejudice, but to break what we had in 2017, I am sure we all feel part of the far smaller team, because of that result.
      4. We have to stand up and hold the Crimson Banner high! We still have breath! We are NOT defeated!
      5. It is absolutely crucial we get ALL Thatcher’s Neolabour Party Tories out of our Party! Impossible as it may seem we can vote every ~180 of them out at GE2024 by simply voting for their strongest opposition and wherever there is a UK Labour Party MP/Candidate we vote them into a seat.
      We’ll end up with a smaller, but far more powerful Party, and a few more Conservative Tories, but a Tory is a Tory, we must not be fooled by the Brand ‘Labour’! Underneath that exterior is a Tory no different to the Conservative Tory and the damned thing is out of our party and also ready for us to take their seat back with ONLY Socialist Candidates at the following GE!

      1. I’m not sure anybody who is in any way vulnerable would thank you for subjecting them to another 2 decades of Conservative Party rule.

      2. I reckon as a Pauper and a Disabled Individual, I can differentiate between ‘STATING A POINT OF PROFOUND CONCERN’ and ‘SUBJECT ME TO IT’!!!!!
        SteveH when you run out of PUFF please Shut The Fuck Up, Read Again, Think (not with your arse) instead of trying to misconstrue my words resulting in you being very much disliked and looking like a complete fool!

      3. skellyknelly – I’ve reread what you’ve said and I stand by my original response to your nonsense

      4. Yes, as I said before, you never can, you never could, 2015 to 2020 and still you can’t, convenient ignorance! It might be a condition get to your GP ASAP!

      5. PS. We are standing at 41 Years of Tory Hell thanks The likes of You and Your Thatcherite Neoliberal Neolabour Party Tories! If VULNERABLE PEOPLE are expecting any Glimmer of Hope, they will vote everyone of you Filthy Conniving Tories out of OUR Democratic Socialist UK Labour Party and take the 2 Decades of Tory Hell with a Powerful voice for them in HoC (rather than fellow Tories), TO PREVENT another 41 Years of Tory Hell!

      6. skellyknelly – You and other like minded individuals could set up a new ‘Socialist Party’ and see how it goes 🤣

      7. No, We will take our own Democratic Socialist Party back, let’s see what happens in the elections shall we? It sure is going to get interesting from here on in!
        We’ll be the Pest Control and as non members we are free to connive and communicate publicly and Starmer and The Starmertruppen can do nothing about it! Not ONE SINGLE Thing! 🤣🤣🤣
        PS. “Not ONE SINGLE Thing!”…except for leave with tail between legs out the backdoor with the rest of the Filth! 🤣🤣🤣

      8. “I’m not sure anybody who is in any way vulnerable would thank you for subjecting them to another 2 decades of Conservative Party rule.”

        FFS steveh, is that not the fault of the NON- and ANTI-socialists who pursue a third-way, trilateral accommodation of neoliberal capitalism and who DIRECTLY reduce the relevance of (such a) Labour party to the electorate and thereby lose elections (as we will see on May 6)?

    2. Still refusing to accept reality Jack, your refusal to do so does not reflect well on your credibility with this particular socialist. The Zionists can’t be blamed for this one, or only in as much as they were part of the Siren choir that lured Labour members onto the electoral rocks.

      1. It was gutless dithering and prevarication that did that, in the end neither side trusted Corbyn.

      2. John Thatcher. The reality is as I described it. Lexstremists, Zionists or fence sitters won’t accept it because it either apportions some of the blame to them or it is critical of their indecision.

        If there had been zero attacks or smears on Corbyn and Labour by the Zionists the only people he would have had to argue against in favour of a confirmatory vote on a final deal would have been far right Tories plus a tiny rump on Labour’s left. Labour’s anti-Corbyn right wing, many of whom were/are Zionists anyway, would not have had a bandwagon to climb on to.from which to creat their faux outrage.

        I don’t know if you voted Leave or Remain. If you are a Democratic Socialist, how can it be undemocratic to give voters a final say after more than a three year delay, for them to review their original decision? If you are a Lexstremist then I accept you will never agree with my view. When it comes to Brexit, Lexstremists and democracy part company.

      3. JackT
        Honouring a vote is not extremist
        Labour leave is a perfectly sensible response to the neo Liberal EU, either they change and we rejoin or more countries leave, the next financial crash should sort that one out

    3. What ‘supporters’ did Jeremy ‘ditch’ Jack? And how did he ditch them exactly?

      Needless to say, JackT is just repeating and reiterating his Big Lie – ie that Jeremy capitulated etc. As Jack knows full well, Jeremy had no say in the disciplinary process (when he was leader), but he NEVER tires of trying to convince readers of skwawkbox that Jeremy ‘threw good comrades under the bus’ etc!. And yet again, Jack ALSO reiterates his secondary Big Lie in which he implies that had Jeremy stood up to the smearers they would have all run for the hills never to smear Jeremy and the left membership again.

      Yeah, sure Jack, as if!!

      1. Allan – Maybe he did maybe he didn’t but it would be difficult to claim that the person he appointed GenSec didn’t have direct involvement in throwing the likes of CW under a bus..

      2. That’s funny Steve….. I just happened to be watching a documentary on Al Jazeera about how Big Oil conspired to cast doubt in the public’s mind that climate change was happening, and lo-and-behold, like the good little black propagandist you are, you post a ‘reply’ contrived to contradict what I said about Jeremy having no say in the disciplinary process, and cast doubt in readers minds that he didn’t. He DIDN’T of course – and YOU know it – and you are lying through your nasty rotten teeth, just like Jack does in HIS post.

        So how long have you been monitoring the site for today so far?! Do they never give you a day off?!

        And what took you SO long to ‘respond’,,,,,, TWELVE minutes! Oh, right, you thought you’d better leave it a little while before posting your ‘response’ otherwise readers might get suspicious that yur a paid shill constantly monitoring the site; over thirteen hours at the point you posted your so-called reply!

      3. Allan – I posted my comment precisely because unlike you I’m not claiming to be the fountain of all knowledge. I’ve read many conflicting reports and opinions from a wide variety of sources.
        As for the rest of your childish nonsense. Why would I need to monitor the site when I’ve programmed my PC to do that for me. Don’t be a tiresome little tw*t all your life.

      4. If you look at every single post of SteveH, it is like a Mini “Propaganda Masterclass”, Like we have our own Little Frank Luntz Bot, called Luntzspeak AI 3.0.1., following Skwawkbox, desperately trying to protect the interests of Thatcher’s Neolabour Tory Party!
        What an Utter Bore!
        It’s like having that one pesky Mosquito in your room, the one you can never find!

      5. “Why would I need to monitor the site when I’ve programmed my PC to do that for me”.

        You actually did what? Tragically, this is only too plausible. The fact that you brag about it neatly illustrates your level of self-awareness!

      6. At the point when SteveH ‘replied’ to my comment at 3.23am this morning he’d been posting comments for over thirteen hours, and I now see – having just turned on my laptop and come back to this thread – that he posted a comment (a reply to someone) at 7.30am, and then posted again at 10.41am and 10.57am, and then AGAIN at 3.09pm and 3.11pm this afternoon. Oh, right, but that’s perfectly normal, and he’s not a paid shill constantly monitoring the site.

        When he says he’s programmed his PC, what he means is that he’s got it set up so that any time someone posts a comment on skwawkbox his online alarm clock goes off and wakes him up. Yep, he’s on ‘call’ 24/7!

    4. JackT
      Not a lot I could disagree with there,
      It is a ‘what if’ scenario and we know most of the answer’s from the 2017 GE
      At some stage politics will settle down into the old left- right battles and the quantum leap we took forward under JC will be enough to get us back into power
      In the meantime there is the small matter of reclaiming our party

  9. Soon be bedtime Steve H in your Caribbean bolt hole.BUT..White flag man Allan Howard is stalking the night…Whos to finally put Allan Howard white flag man to bed?…?the meds don’t work..!

  10. I am a racist because I voted ‘Leave’. An accusation continually thrown by the ‘Blairite Guardian Bourgeoisie’ as an insult by the smugs. The first rule of economics is supply & demand; that applies to the labour market as well as goods & services. Enoch Powell; Margaret Thatcher; Tony Blair knew it, as does the globalist European Union. Cheap Labour & manufacturing can be provided by China. We manufactured more (50 years ago) during the 3 day week & the miner’s strike than we do now. Working class wages have stagnated or fallen at the same time. Social mobility & life expectancy is also falling in many parts of Britain; USA & the European Union. The pandemic will be a massive game-changer with reference to importing cheap labour & to quote Enoch Powell “to do the jobs that white people don’t want to do”, like drive buses & trains & work in the NHS or Care Homes. The importation of cheap labour makes it un-necessary to educate or train a workforce & employers can cherry pick from anywhere in the world. The standard of living is higher in Britain than it is in Romania & the universal benefit service, built in Britain over generations, makes GB an attractive destination for economic migrants.
    I started my working life like my father, as a labourer but realised that hard physical work would eventually kill me. I became a lecturer instead & worked in education for the rest of my working life in inner city areas, working predominantly with working class kids who have always been denied opportunity. It is not journalists; barristers; lecturers or banksters who are affected by the mass importation of cheap labour, it is the bourgeoisie, shareholders & employers who gain from cheap labour & at the same time shine their liberal badge. Woke culture; bourgeois elite culture; who benefits?

    1. Steve, isn’t it about time you dropped all this ‘please miss, he called me a racist’ nonsense?

      Of course all those who voted Leave are not racists. I don’t believe for one minute that Socialists who voted Leave are racists. However, there is no doubt whatsoever that Farage played the racist card to boost the Brexit chances. In fact he has stolen the Tories clothes on this, it’s a tactic they have wheeled out before every General Election. It is why they were so terrified of UKIP and why we even had a Brexit campaign in the first place. It was to save the Tories from being decimated by UKIP.

      1. Comrade JackT ‘please Miss he called me a racist’ is the default position of so many Remoaners who, like Trump, refuse to accept a result. I voted ‘out’ in 1973 & accepted the result & now we seem to have voted the wrong way again & we should do it again until we get the right result that Jack agrees with. All white working class people are racist because we lack the elite sensitivities of the bourgeoisie. We even appear to lack enough intellect to make informed choices & depend on our emotive instincts rather than any objective judgement.. Like the ‘Red Top’ newspapers we buy because we depend on simple ‘human interest stories’ about peoplel rather than being able to digest any complicated concept like Brexit. I would find the Daily Telegraph far too intellectual; just leave me alone with ‘the Sun’ & the pretty pictures.


    That’s why Corbyn lost. Whoever thought that gem up should be er forevashamed.

    I’m convinced that the result would have been better if we had committed to either leave or remain rather than the stupid nudge/wink policy that was nowhere near as clever as they thought it was.

    This is the big failing of Corbyn, as a leader he should have picked a position and stuck to it. I think he had the personality and goodwill of the membership to push this through (and I appreciate it wouldn’t have been easy) and we’d be in a much better place now, probably without the MPs we are still moaning about.

    1. Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong ‘Bennite Eurosceptic’ – ie, with a traditional socialist (ok, a ‘traditional socialist’ understanding profoundly tainted with the distortions from the toxic stalinist tradition ) understanding of the big Business-favouring nature of the EU and its neoliberal Four Freedoms – never had a chance in maintaining the the electorally successful 2017 Manifesto promise to “respect the Leave outcome of the EU referendum” – vital in retaining the old English Heartland Labour seats in 2019. Because, he , with a few northern MPs like Lavery and Trickett, only in support, was ever more isolated by 2019 in a Party composed mainly of middle class, privileged, EU lovers.

      And why was that ? because Mandelson, Campbell, and the rest of the Blairite puppetmasters and Guardian newspaper as megaphone, and the wreckers of the Labour Right, correctly recognised the Brexit issue as the key’ policy wedge issue’ to split the majority of the supposed ‘Corbynite Left’ from Corbyn himself . So it wasn’t only the Labour Right who backed the gross , electortally suicidal, betrayal of our 2017 commitment to honour the Referendum result in 2019 – but most of the , entirely middle class ‘woke’, actually Left Liberal, not socialist. Momentum membership too ! Also most of Jeremy’s PLP , supposed ‘Left’ fellow MPs supported Remain AND 2nd Referendum (if thinly disguised in endless slippery verbiage) . And even those old ex Bennites, past stalwart comrades of Jeremy, (who had in the past always spouted the correct socialist line on the neoliberal EU) particularly John McDonnell, and Diane Abbott, stabbed Jeremy in the back by eventually even going on Blair and Mandelson’s ‘Peoples Vote’ mass demos – of the privileged middle classes .

      So there was never any chance the overwhelmingly middle class , Left Liberal ,and right liberal, Labour Party membership and MPs and members holding to the principled 2017 Leave-supporting position – once the backstage fixers around Mandelson and Blair, with aid from the likes of Starmer, and Thornberry,etc, had driven the ‘Peoples Vote’ nonsense deep into the Party . And the fault wasn’t really Jeremy’s (weak and capitulating as Jeremy always was to attacks from the Right throughout his Leadership) , but the blame is shared by most of the Party’s MPs, and most of its arrogant middle class membership, and the pro EU collaborators in the TUC too. It is the utter collapse of Labour into politics little different to the Lib Dems – because most of the members and MPs actually share their middle class background and underlying capitalism-accepting liberal ideology, that has permanently destroyed Labour as a Party with mass appeal to the poorer working class. And that deep ideological rot, ie, vapid Left Liberalism replacing socialist ideology, far predates the victory of Starmer and co – as it was omnipresent within the supposedly ‘Left Wing’ Momentum from its inception (as anyone who read the crap liberal ‘woke’ discussions on its short-lived MV discussion forum can attest).

  12. Terry, good points.

    In many ways a General Election is similar to a trial, There are witnesses for both sides and advocates for each side try to discredit witnesses from the opposite side.

    In the case of GE2019 the major protagonist for the Tories was Johnson, a proven liar and a cheat who was never out of our media with his ‘Get Brexit Done’ mantra. The right wing media here backed him to the hilt.

    On the other side was Jeremy Corbyn, a more decent person would be hard to find. Almost hourly the Zionists in Labour and the media wheeled out smears and lies against him and were given inordinate amounts of time to try and discredit him. What did Jeremy do? Unbelievably he actually conceded by throwing colleagues under the bus and to top it all, he even refused to appear in his own defence!!! Is it any wonder the jury rejected his case – our case.

    Those who forever keep repeating we had to honour the original Brexit vote conveniently forget that in the interim three and a half years, opinions had shifted. Corbyn and large numbers in the Party recognised this and together with many in the country considered that a confirmatory vote on the final deal would be a democratic way to resolve it. As a result, the mad keen Brexstremists were up in arms that voters may be given another democratic vote and possibly reject Brexit so they went all out against it. Needless to say, the right wing media amplified their screams. This was to be expected but what is disappointing is that unbelievably even some Remainers were taken in by the screams of another democratic vote being an attack on democracy.

    1. Jack you might want to tune into centerest Dad Steve H Hall @boxcartrend hes managed to bang on about the Brexit vote and Corbyn for a couple of days now.Hes also blamed Corbyn for all the ills of the Labour party including leaving Europe and not leaving and the weather…I have noticed that bot sentinel is a natural home for the centerst Dad ?

      1. To be honest Joseph, I’m not really interested in whether or not posters here are who they say they are, I will either agree or disagree with whatever they write as I see fit. The maxim I always keep in mind is ‘I am your friend but when I tell you the truth you make me your enemy’, which I can accept.

  13. The serial anti-Semitic fantasist, JackT, yet again airs his denier madness , with a ritual invokation of the usual turgid ‘zionists are behind it all ‘ stuff. Yep, It’s all apparently the fault of ‘the Zionist bogeymen’, and Labour not being treacherous ENOUGH in 2019, in renouncing our solemn 2017 promise to ‘respect the Referendum result’ with enough force ! Of course, in the real world, not the JackT make believe world – the mass of voters , particularly LABOUR VOTERS in our Heartlands were even more determined to secure BREXIT. There had been no real world shift to Remain in the intervening years since the Referendum (only bogus weaponised polling outcomes claiming this was so) , or a wish to re-run the Referendum, A complete fantasy of the losing Remainer side and their Guardianista and Peoples Vote megaphones.

    That is why the opportunists of the Brexit Party had such an astonishing series of gains in the EU MEP elections, from a standing start, and that is why, Labour having reneged on our 2017 promise to respect the Referendum outcome, were totally wiped out in key Labour heartlands in 2019. The fantasy world of the likes of that serial nutter, JackT , is a very strange place indeed !

    1. Theres a lovely caption of Sir Rodney Knight..of Keir looking anxious gazing out to sea on a windswept beach in Hartlepool,a Ice cream cornet in his hand.This is truly the brilliance of the Labour election machine..We owe it to @Tory fibs for capturing this thought provoking “Goodbye from our saviour of all thats right in the Labour party.Sir keir Rodney Starmer of oxted on the green Surrey.There will be no flottila of little ships to rescue poor thing in this “Dunkirk” moment for keir..and non foolish enough to rescue our knight now the tides going out for all things “Right” .

    2. jpenney, please produce one scintilla of evidence to prove I am an anti-Semite as accused. This is the disgraceful accusation which was thrown by Zionists at people such as Jeremy Corbyn in an attempt to discredit criticism of the racist apartheid State of Israel.

      If you cannot substantiate your claim I trust that Skwawbox will suspend you from this site. This is not an attempt to stifle free speech, it is merely making a stand to show that lies should not be tolerated either here or anywhere else.

  14. Yep.

    They were ‘racist knuckledraggers’ when they outlined their desire and reasons to leave the EU. They were the same fascist types when they warned about what stammer’s game was.

    Then they became the same zionists as stammer is in jackanory’s eyes today.

    But stammer only became a zionist in jackanory’s view once the 2nd ref/ brexit pretence was dropped almost immediately as he dropped each & every one of his 10 pledges within a few months of being elected leader.

    But it’s everyone else’s fault.

  15. Joseph, you now have two good examples of what I’ve just said above, from Toffee the Lexstremist and jpenney the Zionist.

    1. Bugger!! I’ve been downgraded to a mere ‘Lexstremist’ now.

      Last week I was the zionist; as well as the knuckledragging, xenophobic, faragist, fascist. 😕

      Tell us, jack, has stammer suffered the same fate? I mean, what’s he this week?

      1. 🙂 Toffee, I would NEVER downgrade you, you are still the foul mouthed cretin you always were. Happy now? 🙂

  16. SteveH18/04/2021 AT 12:15 AM
    I have yet to see any credible evidence from anyone on this site that I have lied.

    It’s cute when kids do it; they don’t know better, god love ’em.

    However, when adults do it, it signifies that adult has a major problem.

  17. These discussions can be very frustrating – full of “Ah, but” and “What about?”.
    Every time I heard someone from the Remain campaign, I thought “What rubbish. I’ll vote to leave.” Then every time I heard someone from the Leave campaign I thought “What rubbish. I’ll vote to remain.” I finally decided to vote to remain after hearing Yanis Varoufakis talk about the attacks on living standards that were coming down the line regardless of whether we were in or out, and that an isolated UK working class had even less leverage. Both Conservative and Labour parties undertook to “respect the result” and the LP, and the Tories under May, were seen as trying to backtrack on this commitment. But it’s all water under the bridge now. What’s in question is how we move forward. So how about some ideas? Some have advocated setting up a new “left” party. Some have advocated trying to change the LP from within. They will, no doubt, maintain those positions.
    We need to identify a way forward rapidly because the climate won’t wait for us. What’s your view of the way forward SteveH?

  18. goldbach, many of us never had any of those doubts. We could see that Brexit was a far right wing enterprise forced upon the Tories by UKIP and it was merely an exercise to prevent the Tories from disintegrating. As such, many of us wanted no part in it but as in many cases Labour went along with it, thus began the splits which were foretold.

    1. Yes, I agree with your rationale regarding the motivation for the referendum. Seems to me that, once it had been called, Labour was on a hiding to nothing. It just showed up the contradictions within the party. Seems like quite a lot of the “public” can still see the contradictions despite (or because of) the leadership telling members they have to unite behind having no opinions about anything.

      1. goldbach “telling members they have to unite behind having no opinions about anything.”

        Apart from: Socialists are not welcome in this now pro-Zionist Labour Party

  19. So here is a practical challenge
    Your the leader of the Labour party, you are standing on the balcony about to address the miners gathering in Durham
    What say you

    1. I assume you mean “if you’re Starmer and you want the miners to cheer you”, in which case you say “I resign.”

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