NEC members take leadership to task on anti-democratic manoeuvres to deprive members of chance to select parliamentary by-election candidate
SKWAWKBOX has obtained details of the five key points of a letter sent last week by left members of Labour’s National Executive Committee (NEC) to the party’s leader Keir Starmer, acting general secretary David Evans and deputy leader Angela Rayner about the Hartlepool selection debacle.
NEC members demanded to know ‘with the greatest urgency’ why a risibly short selection process was imposed by the leadership after the sitting MP Mike Hill resigned with immediate effect, depriving working people of the chance to apply. They also challenged the lack of transparency about who else applied before Starmer and co decided to impose a ‘long’ list of just a single (and already tarnished) candidate – and demanded full details of the collusion of Keir Starmer’s office with right-wingers in Hartlepool to block anyone but former MP Paul Williams, despite problems with his lack of knowledge of the area.
And they pointed out the further attack on member democracy, demanding that the process be re-opened and candidates shortlisted by a completely new panel of NEC members:
1. We would like to know with the greatest urgency why there was only a 28-hour selection process window to apply from announcement of the former MP’s resignation to the deadline for application submissions. Moreover, the majority of this time was during working hours and could not have reasonably given a working person the time to hear about the announcement and to write an application. We feel this brings into question any expectation that this process would fairly appraise all applicants and undermines the ability of working class, disabled or simply busy candidates to apply.
2. We would like clarity on how many applicants there were and the diversity of said applicants, as well as knowledge of who sat on the panel and took this decision. We would like to lodge our discomfort that fellow NEC colleagues were happy to agree a single-candidate “long”-list containing only one white man. We feel this has denied local constituency members their ability to have agency over the candidate they select and goes against the party’s democratic principles and the fight for a more representative parliament.”
3. During the process a memo was leaked, written by the chair of the CLP, stating that the party would need confirmation in writing from the CLP’s executive in order to favour a certain candidate. We would like to know who communicated this information to the CLP and upon whose instruction.”
4. Had there been any semblance of a democratic process, the inappropriate nature of this candidate may well have come to light before his selection.”
5. In light of this new information, and in what will be a high-profile campaign with increased scrutiny of the candidate, we ask that the process be reopened and for a new panel to be convened tomorrow (Sunday 21st March) to resolve this issue. We look forward to your immediate action on this matter.”
The party’s behaviour has already been disastrous, even if imposing a centrist EU-ultra in an overwhelmingly leave seat hadn’t already been electoral idiocy. Tragically for Labour and a country desperately in need of real change, there are no signs of the party hierarchy seeing sense, let alone embracing it.
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Reply from Starmer and his reprobates:
Get lost, can’t you see we are trying to rig it? – Idiots!
Signed,
The Starmer Gang.
This morning Mandelson was infesting the MSM. He dripped on Keith – Keith is ‘firmly back in the ring’.
Sounds painful but, to each their own.
“Dr Williams, a vocal opponent of Brexit, who argued for a second referendum despite his Stockton South constituents having voted by more than 60 per cent to Leave, is a classic example, though he signed a post-defeat letter to the Observer blaming Corbyn and attacking the party’s support for nationalisation and public-spending increases.”
The full Pople’s Press MS Editorial here https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labour-and-local-elections-trying-lose
“A right-wing saw of the Jeremy Corbyn years was that the party membership were less representative of the wider population than MPs, whose election by the public conferred on them greater democratic legitimacy. The current insistence on central control of candidate selections suggests a similarly low opinion of Labour members.
“There were always a number of problems with the argument — opinion polls on issues such as public ownership showed it was often MPs and not members who were out of touch. Probably the most dramatic indication of MPs’ insulation from public opinion was Brexit, where two thirds of Labour constituencies voted Leave in the 2016 referendum despite almost universal support for Remain in the Parliamentary party.
“Labour paid the price in the starkest possible manner in 2019 with the loss of the Red Wall…..”
Yup you’re right I find it hysterical that these supposedly socialist people on the NEC have last managed to make a protest. We get silence about howe JC is treated, how the cult of new Labour 2.0 has taken over and shifted the party to Tory-lite and now not a socialist party any more we get silence. How the membership and socialistas are denied again and again in elections… Silence. How the cult is weeding out socialist membership… Silence…
But at long last they find a pen and paper and send in a sodding letter so what… Way to little way to late and they will just ignore you because you have NO power you had some but doing nothing allowed the cult to take over now they will just ignore you! Just like Blaire did did you not learn any of the lessons the last time this cult of new Labour reared it’s right wing head?
I’d be shocked if Hartlepool fell for this. I expect a Tory win.
Hill resigned on Tuesday. That very evening it is alleged that Moss Boddy, Hartlepool CLP held “emergency executive meeting” Bobby wrote to Labour leaders to get NEC to “find a way” for Williams to be imposed as the only candidate, “without delay”. Democracy Starmer Red Tory Style
⚠️🥀⚠️🥀⚠️🥀
Signpost…and not one word about milf wilf the cavalier candidate or the victim and expenses of mr Hill?..Same old NEC different faction.?
Joseph – Surely it would be inappropriate and it may be prejudicial for Labour to comment on Hill’s alleged misconduct before the case is heard by the employment tribunal.
Never stopped them before has it windchimes and clearly the ex mp has worked closely with HQ and obtained info from the inquiry the usual way.Yet in all this time “No comment”.lets get real if it had been a lefty ,it would have been across the front pages.No mention of the poor victim or victims in all this time is not credible or believable.and quite frankly its disgraceful that not even a drop of sympathy from anyone in the Labour party?
Joseph – Sub Judice rules apply to Employment Tribunals once the hearing date has been set. Like you I have no idea whether or not the Labour party has offered the victim support. It should be noted however that the complaint was made when Jeremy and Jennie were in charge.
Ps I don’t know how I managed to address the reply to windchimes when of course it should have been Steve H,SH davidh ..Steve Hall,centrist Dad and many others.I will excuse myself for being confused 😕..apolgys to windchimes for the confusion of various names and aliases with ginger ninger from Bristol Steve Hall.
Bookies make Tories favourites to take Hartlepool as rumours swirl on Mike Hill’s replacement
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/hartlepool-mp-betting-odds-election-20189130
If it can be f*ckedup for Labour, the Billionaires’ buddy is sure to find a way.
Thanks for that qwertboi..I never realised that Hartlepool had such a smart Marina,with Yachts and timber fronted houses..Nothing like my old town of Bolton with the river coloured red or rust(depending on the bleach works)and a few stagnant old mill ponds next to the derelict mills.No I can safely say this town has potential for the Torys for weekenders and cheap beer and wine..I am afraid that indy and janet have wasted their time cleaning up the CLP offices…PS has anyone news of “Janet”
Been informed that Jonathan Ashworth is being lined up to take over from SKS if his current strategy blows up, local parties start to revolt and the Hartlepool bye election is an utter disaster. Apparently Mandy is the new puppetmaster and this is his big idea.
Ashworth and Starmer are very much alike: some vapid, corporate slick, empty nonsense without principles. Nobody would see the difference between these two.
If ever there was a non-entity it is Ashworth. He has whining voice, coupled with the charisma of a soggy lettuce.
Reply to Jack T
He is also a disloyal and used underhand tactics such as his indiscreet conversation with his Tory friend (which was repeated as Ashworth knew it would be) to undermine Jeremy Corbyn prior to the last GE. He is also married to a foul mouthed ambitious schemer Emilie Oldknow now a leading light in Unison and formerly a Labour Staffer who featured in the leaked AS report.
I don’t like Starmer but I would say to comrades – be careful of what you wish for. Ashworth looks and sounds like a nonentity but he is a nasty piece of work married to an even nastier one. If Starmer is succeeded by Ashworth or another right winger we will be in opposition for the foreseeable future -which is probably what the powers that be want anyway.
Ashworth is the slug on the lettuce. By their trail shall ye know them…
“New”??? Mandy’s been pulling the strings since Corbyn became leader!
Yes Hartlepool has a very nice Marina as does Stockton-on-Tees both supplied along with other rather nice bits of infrastructure supplied by the EU (I originated from Stockton-on-Tees but due to lack of jobs there in the 70’s I moved to Surrey) Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth or more like kicking !
Autocracy or some would say dictatorship is running unchecked at the very top so Hartlepool is just the latest episode. The lesson the broad Left has to learn is never again to compete against itself to allow the right wingers to come through the mddle to control the NEC. The Left splits and the right wingers win, so yet again history repeats it self as it has done so many times in the past and my membership started in 1944.
Absolutely right. If the Left in the LP is to have any chance of success they have to work together.
Lost count of the number of times I’ve said it recently, – the left eat their own babies.
Congratulations…and wise words from someone who must be very nearly the oldest member of the Labour party….Bill wells
There is now only one question that needs answering
Have we got enough MP’s to put up a challenge
The rest is a formality after May elections and conference
RaV
Doug – I doubt you’ve got the numbers and why would you want to at the moment, what would you hope to gain?
Steve, don’t you mean “we”, not “you”?
Big giveaway!
timfrom – What give-away. I’ve always been clear that a don’t support a coup..
My point has always been MP’s know which way the wind blows and how the members feel Temporary Embarrassment is the best recruiting sergeant we could ever hope for
RaV
Since 2014 politics has been in turmoil, JC was a breath of fresh air and saved the party
At some stage there will be a realignment, Labour on the left, Cheap and Nasties on the far right and Red/Blue/Yellow tories in the middle
I agree wholeheartedly that this whole process should have been transparent and open. I naively expected that a list of those who had put themselves forward (if any) would be published soon after the 5pm deadline. Unfortunately we’ve seen a similar high handed (we know best approach) by regional officers for some time and now apparently by NEC members.
I know nothing about the situation on the ground in Hartlepool apart from what I’ve read during the last few days and for all I know the single candidate long-list may indeed be the best solution but whatever their intention some members of the NEC and the local CLP officers by arrogantly behaving as if they belong to some secretive politburo.have regardless of the truth made it look like there is something underhand going on.
We know how our MPs vote, why don;t we know how our representatives on the NEC vote, why are they unaccountable?
It is difficult to see how their secretive behaviour has been of benefit to anyone, least of all the party. We are democratic socialists. The party is nothing if it isn’t seen to be transparent and accountable.
SteveH, “We are democratic socialists” apart from the Leader, the Deputy Leader, the General Secretary and countless other Labour MP’s and officials up and down the country. SteveH, take your blinkers off.
ITs nice to see a bit of contrition ginge.Now go away and say three “Our father’s, twelve Hail marys..and a prayer for the return of “Faith” to the Dowry of Mary “.?and a promise not to commit these sins that destroy your “soul” again…oh and one to what you descibe as the “fairy in the sky”
Joseph – Why on earth would I waste my time spouting meaningless bollocks to something that doesn’t exist.
Quite, democratic socialists bollocks.
No argument about the contrition then?..I see that the SWest seems to be standing up for democracy in Bristol your old hunting ground.All round condemning the protesters,but secretly we all know that the riots from the streets do “actually work” .How much better if we blamed the Torys and parliament for pushing the people to far and ignoring of freedom too far and leaving the people no other choice than to reply in the only way the Torys fear and loath “violance”Yes its always a risk but does anyone believe the Catholic population of gerrymandered Ulster would have got the vote without a fight.Those that rely on violence and intimidation with draconian laws are absolutely terrified of the people hitting the streets to protest for democracy and freedom….Well done ✔ true Opposition.
Joseph – Fine words but I have my doubts that you would dare to protest on the streets of Cambodia against the oppressive corrupt regime that has been in power for decades. I noted that you recently advised another ex-pat not to get involved in local politics
It doesn’t MATTER whether anyone else put themselves forward- any candidate Other than Williams The Doomed would automatically have been blocked by Evans and Starmer. There was never any good reason for you to raise the question of who else put themselves forward- in all liklihood, nobody did, because they knew it was futile. Stop deflecting and stop bringing up non-issues. This is all the handiwork of Starmer and Evans and it’s thanks to them that Labour is going to lose badly in the May elections when they’d have been able to count on winning solidly if it hadn’t been for the Starmer/Evans war against the Left.
kenchurch – If nobody from ‘the left’ put themselves forward it is difficult to see how disenfranchising their voters can be seen as a positive. You can;t grumble about it being a one horse race if nobody from ‘the left’ was prepared to enter the fray.
And what has happened in Hartlepool PROVES the problem isn’t “regional offices” acting on their own. The problem is at the top.
kenburch – The only thing it proves is that ‘the left’ were ill prepared and failed to get their act together (again) or ‘the left’ thought that it was by no means a certainty that they would win either the PPC ballot or the byelection and they just didn’t have the bottle to give it ago.
Steve, why do you even bother being an apologist for Starmer & Evans? What, of anything they’ve done so far, could you possibly think is worth continuing? There’s nothing that happened in Hartlepool that could justify you blaming the left- btw why do you put that phrase in “scare quotes”, as if the term means something other than what it actually does mean, as if there is some nefarious “we all know perfectly well what these people actuall ARE” description of Labour leftists?
It couldn’t have served any purpose for the left to even offer an alternate candidate when Starmer & Evans were going to block that candidate from ever having a chance, and the fact that they didn’t doesn’t vindicate the imposition of Williams.
And once again- a “pragmatic” case could, in theory, exist for your insistence on perpetually trying to deflect responsibility away from Starmer & Evans if their antidemocratic, antisocialist approach actually had Labour in a “twenty point lead”- but, since the party has done nothing but lose ground in the polls for the last two months, and there is no reason to think there’s any chance that will change anytime soon, if ever, what possible point is there in continuing to support those two? If what they’ve done doesn’t have Labour ahead now…what’s the point of staying with it?
kenburch – It is remarkably easy to justify blaming ‘the left’ for this being a one horse race, the left failed to provide an alternative.
The explanation for putting the ‘the left’ in single quotation marks is quite simply to differentiate the self appointed guardians of ‘the left’ who represent only a small percentage of the membership from the vast majority of members and Labour supporters who do not support your brand of socialism but quite legitimately consider themselves to be on the left.
It couldn’t have served any purpose for the left to even offer an alternate candidate when Starmer & Evans were going to block that candidate from ever having a chance, and the fact that they didn’t doesn’t vindicate the imposition of Williams.
Conveniently for you we’ll never know, will we, because ‘the left’ disenfranchised their supporters by not putting up a single challenger. The party would have had to justify barring a candidate and if they couldn’t then ‘the left’ would have a legitimate case but as it stands you have been left looking a bit silly and irrelevant. Doing bugger all to help yourselves or your like minded supporters on ‘the left’ whilst bleating (like you) that life is unfair isn’t going to help anyone, is it.
Yes the polls are disappointing but I don’t remember you being in the least bit concerned about Jeremy’s consistently abysmal polling against Boris. I wonder why that is.There is a long way to go before Starmer’s poll ratings get anywhere near as bad as Jeremy’s were throughout his tenure. For goodness sake we went into the 19GE with ⅔ of the electorate actively expressing a dislike for Corbyn, the net result being we lost 61 seats because for the first time ever more of the working class voted Tory than voted for Labour (by a massive 15% margin). Incidentally roughly equal percentages (33%) of the working and middle classes voted Labour.
SteveH…people who actually personally identify as being on “the left” don’t WANT socialists to be driven out of the party.
Also, my “brand” of socialism is left-wing libertarian socialism- what did you think it was? I’m not a “Trot” and essentially nobody who backed Corbyn ever was, and what YOU probably think Trotskyism meant- nationionalising every aspect of life and running it all under bureaucratic state control- is not what actual Trostkyists backed in the Eighties- they backed workers’ control of production, which is utterly different than old-style state bureaucratic control- and today, the overwhelming majority of left-wing people back putting the economy under the direct democratic control of working people, OUTSIDE of state bureaucracy entirely.
They also back an end of militarism in UK foreign policy- with the legitimate and honourable exception of defending UK territory from attack by conventional means, which is more than sufficient.
They don’t back anything remotely like the repressive nightmare YOU think of as what “Trots”- a term you probably agree should be applied to everyone to the left of Gordon Brown- and they are not allied with China or Russia or any other imagined villain state.
Knowing that, as you now do, will you retire your antiquated and discredited notion of what you thought my politics were and what you think the politics of most of the anti-Starmer left is?
And will you finally face reality that Starmer’s intent is to turn Labour back into a “centre ground” party- i.e., a party that is effectively Tory, as the party that called itself “Labour was from 1994 until Gordon’s retirement was?
There is no way you can seriously argue that what Starmer is doing to the party now has anything to do with creating a socialist future of any sort, or that people who see themselves as part of any notion of the left should support his antidemocratic and anti-activist notion of how the party should be run.
Also- though for some reason you continually refuse to accept this- I am not CALLING for a Corbyn restoration…I simply stand with those who don’t want the abandonment of the Corbyn-era policies to happen, or the continuation of the phenomenon of massive numbers of socialists either being suspended, expelled, or simply driven to quit the party in despair. It isn’t doing the party any good to drive leftists out, and it isn’t doing the party any good to send a clear message to the young that they and their dreams of a truly better world are no longer welcome.
And the reason I post in defence of Corbyn personally is simply that he was the most decent person to lead the party since the days of Keir Hardie, and the establishment and most of the PLP ganged up to destroy him for no reason. He never deserved the accusation of supporting terrorism- we all know he never did- and he utterly never deserved the AS Smear- on his watch, the actual antisemites were all forced out- that was all that could be done- and there was no justification for the first antiracist activist ever to lead the Labour Party ever being subjected to the right wing of the PLP-none of whose members ever cared about fighting bigotry, bigotry being only an issue actual socialists work to stop on a serious basis- screaming “RACIST!” at him in the House of Commons.
Corbyn will never be leader again. But the voters weren’t against his policies- the polls showed and continue to show that all of them were and are popular- so there is no good reason for Keir to have abandoned his Ten Pledges, or to have crushed internal party democracy rather than keep his leadership campaign promise to strengthen it, or for the purge of the Left that he STILL refuses to end-a purge even you haven’t offered any justification for.
So what I speak for when I mention Corbyn is simply to join the many who don’t want Labour to erase what his supporters- and Keir would not be leader if half of Corbyn’s 2015/16 supporters hadn’t voted for him, so at least he owes THOSE people something- stood for and continue to stand for.
There are no votes to be gained in erasing those policies- and the proof of the futility of ever running another “centre ground” campaign is what happened to the two “centre ground” parties, TIG/CUK and the LibDems- in 2019.
The LibDems had a one seat loss, a pathetic 11.6% share in the popular vote- an increase from 2017 ONLY because their showing that year was abysmal- and their own leader was beaten solidly in her constituency by a party well to her left, with every Labour “moderate” who crossed over to stand as a LibDem candidate- including Smeeth and Berger, the ones who pretended they were victims of bigory because a few people got into harmless, purely politics-based shouting matches with them- all lost badly in the constuencies they fought.
TIG/CUK- the party that was meant to be SDP 2.0, the one all the so called “Labour moderates” originally defected to, before they defected from there to the LibDems- never even elected a local councillor- or came remotely close to doing so- and never contested a single parliamentary by-election- you’d have at least thought Smeeth or Berger would have stood down and been able to hold their seats simply by running spite-based campaigns- and in 2019, TIG-CUK took slightly over 10,000 votes- not in one constituency, OVERALL.
The LibDems are now running not only behind their 2019 showing but behind their pathetic 2017 showing as well. TIG-CUK has been wound up.
This is why Starmer’s obsession with the flag and with being a vindictive, redbaiting bastard towards his own party’s activists, while supporting the Tories more than he opposes them, is so utterly futile- there are no voters out there who would can possibly be won over by it.
And the reason I join those who call for the end of Corbyn’s suspension is that, since there is no chance Corbyn will ever stand for the leadership again, Starmer’s treatment of the man is now nothing more than senseless, gratuituous bullying- Whatever Corbyn’s flaws as a leader- and neither I nor anyone else ever claimed he was flawlwss- he’s done nothing to deserve to be made into a pariah, and there was no reason for Starmer to be this obsessed with punishing the man for his respons to the EHRC report- Why is it so bloody unforgivable to Starmer that Corbyn said what he said in that response?
The EHRC itself said he had every right to say what he said- it was allowed under their rules- and his comments which weren’t invalid- what else could it be called but exxaggerration for political gain when right-wing propagandists made the outlandish claim that the UK Jewish community faced an existential crisis if Corbyn became PM- not that some in that community might take issue with some of Corbyn’s view, but that Jewish people in the UK would literally be in physical danger if Corbyn got into power. How could anybody possibly justify that Corbyn was an actually a physical risk to that community? Knowing the longstanding historical fears that still haunt Jewish communities worldwide, how could anybody seriously argue that there was reason for that community to actually FEAR the idea of Jeremy Corbyn, one of the most passionate campaigners against AS in the history of UK politics- somehow deserved to be likened to an actual threat to people who’d been on the losing end of that bigotry? Based on what? Based on who he’d been on speaking platforms with? Seriously? Based on his simply not being a Zionist(even though he fully accepted existing Labour policy on the I/P issue which, by itself, committed the party supporting Israel’s continued existence?)
Not only was there nothing about Corbyn or his supporters that could possibly have justified that assertion, or the even more despicable assertion that Simon Heffer made- even you, Steve, would have to admit that what Heffer wrote was a vile lie- and it was totally valid for Corbyn to point out that those who wrote said things like that were responsible for traumatising the UK Jewish community, filling it with fear about a figure it had never felt any fear towards before he became leader, increasing the tensions that community felt about living in the UK for no justifiable reason.
Corbyn had fought alongside the UK Jewish community, in absolute solidarity with in its fight against AS for decades before he became leader; even Margaret Hodge- who should have been deselected and expelled from the party for what she screamed at Corbyn while standing in the House of Commons itself- wrote a passage in a book she published before Corbyn became leader thanking him for always being available to stand up to far-right neo-Nazi types;
Why should those decades of commitment to the fight against AS- a fight Corbyn was part of when nobody on the Labour Right cared about the issue- be treated as though it counted for nothing, simply because Corbyn, drawing on the success he had in persuading Sinn Fein to switch from violence to electoral politics, tried to persuade some Islamists to try peace and dialog, to abandon the hate in their message- and because he showed solidarity to the people of Palestine?
Why should he ever have been pressured to abandon his solidarity with ordinary Palestinians, and why should he ever have been pressured to not only adopt the IHRA definition of AS- which, by itself, was more than enough to put Labour on the side of morality and common humanity- but also to adopt the “guidelines and examples” which went on, for no valid reason, to equate virtually any public criticism of what the Israeli government does to Palestinians with hatred of Jews-something such criticism never is?
And what is the point of Keir continuing to demand that Corbyn, in exchange for readmission to the PLP, apologise for his statement and give up his dignity and his good name by recanting it as if he were a heretic facing the Inquisition- why should he have to renounce a statement which did absolutely no harm to anyone or anything, and to couple that renunciation with essentially agreeing that he and his supporters DESERVED the AS Smear?
Starmer has no decent motives in this- he doesn’t want Corbyn to work for party unity and victory- he wants to BREAK Corbyn- and there’s no possible justification for Starmer either wanting Corbyn broken OR wanting to forbid Labour members from any expressions of solidarity with the people of Palestine.
Corbyn’s out of the leadership. Corbyn will never seek the leadership again. Why isn’t that ENOUGH? Whyl can’t Keir do the decent thing and leave it at that? Why is he so bound and determined to force Corbyn to abandon his dignity, abandon his humanity, and to effectively become a Likudnik on the I/P issue(which is the only position anyone CAN take on the I/P issue and stay within the IHRA guidelines).
Can you really justify Keir’s attitude on that? Or for the continued from your mates on the right wing of the party that Corbyn stand down as MP entirely? How can you defend bullying on this scale?
And whatever you think of Corbyn- a figure who, again, Keir has no reason to see as a threat- how can you justify sending the message to an entire generation that, if anyone they support and trust ever becomes party leader, the establishment- even the Labour wing of the establishment- will unite to destroy that person?
Those who respond to you as I do simply want to avoid the nightmare of another brutal, senseless 1987-1997 saga of the party stripping itself of core values and of good people who fought heroically for good things. It is now clear to all- and it was obvious to a lot of us then- that Labour did not have to inflict that misery on itself in order to “win”- the polls throughout the Nineties showed the voters turning against everything the Tories were doing, which mean that Labour would have won in 1997 without choosing an avenging antisocialist bastard to “lead” it.
The end result was 500,000 to 2million dead in Iraq- all of them dead for nothing- and no means of stopping the killing even when the vast majority of the Labour rank-and-file were demanding that Blair stop it.
None of that needed to happen then.
Nothing remotely like that needs to happen now.
Labour didn’t need to do that then
kenburch – Did you get carried away. Well having very quickly scanned through your long diatribe it appears to be yet another case of you attempting to project your own agenda onto others and making stuff up again.. If you think I am going to waste my time ploughing through all your copy and paste drivel then you’ve got another think coming/
@Ken B
1) You’re wasting your time with centrist dad.
2) …most of the PLP ganged up to destroy him for no reason…
The reason was obvious. Corbyn was a threat. On a more localised level, he was a threat to their seat at the trough. Had Corbyn succeeded, more like him would have replaced the scum currently occupying the PLP.
On a national level, Corbyn was a direct threat to the establishment. Had he won, we would have seen a coup. The military was openly discussing this (not to mention using him as a literal target for training).
We’re on the wrong side of the fence. Change will never happen. The UK will go to war (with it’s own citizens and citizens if other countries) before change is contemplated, let alone actioned.
kenburch
Red Tories like there cheap and nasty idols do not believe in anything other than the status quo
A friend of mine ex WW2 veteran called them the beautiful people, no matter what happens in the world you can bet your bottom dollar they won’t suffer
‘Socialism for the few, capatalism for the many’
I never do cut and paste, Steve.
How could the single-candidate long list possibly be the best solution? There’s no good reason to essentially forbid the CLP from having a free choice of candidates, and there was never any reason for Evans to simply grab for himself the right to reject any candidate he personally doesn’t like- a right which means that no one but antisocialists will be allowed to be Labour candidates for anything as long as Evans & Starmer retain control of the party. It goes without saying that only allowing “moderate” candidates means that, even if Labour somehow managed to win an election with only “moderate”(i.e., quasi-Tory) candidates in every constituency, nothing distinguishable from Tory policies could ever be implemented by the supposedly “Labour” government that might produce- for example, that there’s nothing a “Labour” government that didn’t nationalise water, electric, and the rails could do that could possibly be considered Labour policy in any recognisable sense.
kenburch – How could the single-candidate long list possibly be the best solution? There’s no good reason to essentially forbid the CLP from having a free choice of candidates,
The elected officials of the CLP were the ones wanting a single candidate list.
The decision to grant the GenSec the power to veto unsuitable candidates must have been voted on by the NEC and as I understand it the GenSec can’t just disallow a candidate on a whim he needs to be able to justify his decisions. Wasn’t this put in place to provide a final check because much to the party’s embarrassment a number of candidates had been inadequately vetted. Your interpretation is palpably disingenuous.
I must have missed that policy announcement, has Labour’s policy on nationalisation changed. Do you have a link?
I’m impressed SteveH. Your post rightly mentions all three factors that are supposedly definitional to Labour and its politics, but which AWOL in both Hartlepool and Liverpool:
* Transparency
* Openness
* Accountability (to members and NEC/ Rulebook).
A lack of the first two is easy to confirm in both Hartlepool and Liverpool, and this, I’d argue, necessarily becomes a serious accountability FAILURE which, for me and many others here, is unacceptable and lays party management, both at a local, regional and national level, culpable – or worse (I don’t want to spell it out).
Those of us who distrust Sir Keir and David Evans see the above as intentional and deliberate.
I can understand that your loyalty to the leader, or maybe simply an enthusiasm for his third-way economics, values and style of (top-down) management, causes you to not want to admit Sir Keir’s culpability (or worse), but the more it occurs, the less you can defend him to yourself, surely, and the less acceptable he is as leader.
No?
And yet SteveH you felt no need to harness your CONSTANT and persistent retorts regarding this throughout last week?
“Why haven’t the left put anyone forward” you kept chiming in incessantly like the broken record you are. This was obviously the only script they supplied you with?
And here you are again flouting your lack of shame and any semblance of self respect.
You are faeces on the soles of our boots. Back off while you still can you vile despicable excuse of a human being.
spiderider – It isn’t my fault that everyone is as mystified as myself as to why they were either unable or unwilling to put forward a candidate, aren’t you also just a little bit curious why they didn’t
Never IS your fault is it, victim?
Not your fault the left were given zero time to put forward a candidate… But you’ll use that as something to blame them for… Just like the rags blame the poor for their plight.
Not your fault you won’t tell anyone what the difference between stammerism and conservatism is.
Oh, we all know there isn’t any, but you seem to think it clever to blame us for asking under your delusion that we’re unaware, when we’re all far too familiar with your shithousery and pathetic trickery for the real reason you won’t tell us….
You’re not only a running joke; you’re a fucking running sore as well
*Awaits the typically shit reply that you think will exonerate you and denigrate me. Cretin.
And the victim of this now resigned mp?Not a word from the MSM or anyone in the Labour party.This whole fiasco has been managed from day 1when it became clear that the former mp was up to his neck in sexual assaults and probably “victims” not just one.IN truth the good doctor didn’t stand a chance of being accepted by any of the members because sleeze and corruption are at the ❤of the Labour party and have been for a long time.The campaign has already been lost and if our Doctor had any sense of self preservation he should stick with the NHS and dump the Neo Labour party and the party that couldn’t care less about the victims of our former Labour mp whos has also worked well with the inner sanctum to sanitize his exit.
Joseph – It can’t be ignored or glossed over who was in charge when Hill was reinstated?
Correct…Steve H….but now youve woken up the white flag man Allan Howard and you know it….?Black opps…shill ….t…roll..r..gt..wing shill…Help…..h..lp…grr grr
You can’t hold Corbyn responsible for Hill’s reinstatement then, and then turn around now and say that Starmer isn’t responsible for anything being done to crush the left at the grassroots level now, Steve.
The pro-privatisation doctor. He epitomises the corruption at the heart of the Labour Party. It’s what he lives and breathes.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/15444835.revealed-north-east-mp-dr-paul-williams-director-company-block-referral-hospital/
Jack – The Leader and Deputy Leader were both elected into office and only 12 to 15% of Labour voters currently think he is doing a bad job. The GenSec’s appointment was ratified by the NEC. As for the MPs well we shouldn’t forget who lumbered us with ‘trigger ballots’. The various paid officials appear to be the appointees of the Unions, jobs for the boys and girls?
I’ve got a ‘brilliant idea’ – Why don’t we canvas the opinions of the membership and other interested parties and then appoint a committee to ‘moderate’ the findings to ensure that they reach the ‘correct’ conclusions. 🤔
SteveH “The Leader and Deputy Leader were both elected into office and only 12 to 15% of Labour voters currently think he is doing a bad job”
Cast your mind back to the things Tom Watson said to get elected as Deputy Leader, some would say he told a pack of lies. Being elected as you very well know, is no guarantee that once in position, the winner will keep to their promises, nor is it any guarantee that they will not try and impose an agenda which they did not disclose prior to election.
Starmer and Rayner are both guilty of the above, therefore the situation Party members are faced with is not one they chose, it is the one they are now faced with since the true intentions of those who were elected have become apparent. Should they accept the Labour Party being turned into a Social Democrat Party at best or should they make their feelings of disgust known whilst waiting for a genuine Socialist leader to emerge, even though it will be a long wait?
After seeing the true colours of Starmer and Rayner, one thing is absolutely certain, it’s that no Socialist could ever support them, even if it was just for expediency.
Steve H…..And we all know whos pulling the strings of the self confessed Zionists don’t you…Embassy…Apartheid government?.Our knight and Rayner are more dangerous to the survival of the Labour party than the clowns that voted for them.IF the Labour party don’t stop them,then Boris Johnson and the security services will.I hope you can influence the right wing of the Labour party to abandon them ASAP because time is running out with a fascist government watching the antics in the Labour party.Lets just return to the tried and tested snouts in the trough of old Labour and carrerist mps straight from Oxbridge. Ah the good old days?
Joseph – I have on a number of occasions quite clearly posted on these pages that I believe that all religious organisations should be dis-affiliated from the Labour party and that we should have a secular code of conduct that applies to all members. I do not support any religion having any more influence in the party than anyone else. We should be a secular organisation.
I have never expressed any support for the Israeli state’s abhorrent behaviour towards the Palestinians I also believe that Benjamin Netanyahu is a odious individual who is a stain on international peace. The Israeli government complete disregard for several UN resolutions and their inhumane, unjust behaviour in the region are completely and utterly despicable’.
Is that clear enough for you
Agreed ,so first job get rid of religious nutter and Zionist Starmer.Well done Mr Hall ,aka Steve H from Bristol,were freedoms are sacrosanct and the bill are on the run 🏃.
Joseph – I have no problem with people of religion being active in the party, have you?
Are you condoning the wanton violence that took place on the streets of Bristol last-night?
The protests organisers unlike you have unequivocally condemned the violence and have disassociated themselves from and also condemned those that hijacked their peaceful protest.
Patel and the Tories will milk this disturbance for all it is worth and it will have the inevitable effect of discouraging many peaceful law abiding protesters from taking part in future demonstrations. This is not news we should be in any way celebrating.
Then will you admit that there was never any reason for Labour to adopt the IHRA “guidelines and examples”, knowing that those guidelines and examples make it virtually impossible to express any position on the Israel/Palestine issue other than unquestioning support of everything Netanyahu and the IDF do to ordinary Palestinians? Knowing there is no way to condemn anything the Israeli government does under those guidelines? Knowing that those guidelines give anybody who wants to silence dissent from Netanyahu’s policies the ability to instantly do that by making a fatuous accusation that the Israeli government is being held to standards other democratic governments are not held to- even though there hasn’t been a single incident where the Israeli government HAS been held to such a double standard? Knowing that even Stephen Kinnock- perhaps the single most antisocialist member of the PLP- if his dad was still an MP, Stephen would argue that HE was too far to the left- was punished under the guidelines, after making essentially the mildest, least controversial comment anybody could possibly make about IDF brutality?
kenchurch – As I have said on these pages many times before I do not think that any religion should have a disproportionate influence in the party I also don’t support the adoption of the IHRA but unlike you I don’t find that it impedes what I want to say by much if at all.
I have never expressed any support for the Israeli state’s abhorrent behaviour towards the Palestinians. Also I believe that Benjamin Netanyahu is a odious individual who is a stain on international peace. I also think that the Israeli government’s complete disregard for several UN resolutions and their inhumane, unjust behaviour in the region are completely and utterly despicable’.
Is that clear enough for you
Now please give the cut and paste a rest and be more succinct or piss off back down your 🐰🕳.
I’m bored with your nonsense
SteveH
And your thoughts on Temporary Embarrassment’s House Spy
SteveH “The organisers have condemned this wanton violence” …You are like a babe in the woods on organised protest.OF course we condem “wanton violence” and we will continue till the government and the Bill get the message.Thats how it works sunshine and nobody worry about the amount of violence against the public by the class enemy the Bill.and their junta.Get real unless this is challanged by ay means necessary then the working class are back to Surfdom and starvation wages…Thank god someone has the guts to take the government on at their own cruel violent game..How many murdered in care homes??..How many people forced into the streets with mental health issues and die…How many forced to starve and freeze in there own homes because the people that represent us are having a good laugh and a binge on us.How many women battered by cops,how much longer do we see this government wage a class war against us.And finaly how much longer are you going to support the establishment system and the misery caused by your degenerate,perverted Political leaders.
Joseph – and yet despite of all your ‘fine words’ you’re the one who has happily chosen to settle in a country which has an abysmal human rights record as well as being riddled with endemic political and financial corruption. 🤔
SteveH. Given your comments above regarding the Israeli State and Netanyahu, the driving force behind them and their vehement opposition to those such as Corbyn who oppose them, is Zionism. Are you a supporter of Zionism?
I’ve never done a word of cut and past, Steve. While I sometimes reiterate points- as you do incessantly- I never repost the same passages. The reason the IHRA was brought up was that the main reason Corbyn was subjected to the AS Smear was that he didn’t want to adopt the “guidelines and examples”. BTW, the primary author of the IHRA definition, guidelines, and examples has renounced the document- he states that it was written mainly to be of assistance to those keeping statistics on AS, NOT as a bludgeon against legitimate dissent.
SteveH
Riddled with financial and political corruption
Sounds like the Leaders office, throw in Israels glove puppet
Is there no beginning to his talents
Joseph – Don’t be misled by the marina. Hartlepool is just like all those other places consigned to the scrapheap under Thatcher and taken for granted by Labour. It has had the centre tarted up, like a number of similar towns, but the lack of proper jobs paying proper wages blights the place. It is not “traditional” Tory territory. It has been made so by the obsession, of some within the Labour Party, with Remaining at all costs. Sadly, the town is a bit of a case of fur coat and no knickers. It’s also one of those places that Labour Remainers wrapped up, tied a bow on and offered to the Tories. If, as seems likely, the Tories win, no doubt the powers that be will find a convoluted way to blame Corbyn for it. They’re probably looking, right now, at how they can spin England coming next to bottom of the six nations so that it was Corbyn’s fault.
They also elected the monkey twice, which proves a healthy distaste for gutless and spineless politicians
From what I know the monkey did a decent job
The local Labour Party like a lot of CLP’s up here are in a state of civil war which bodes well for the real thing
What would happen if left members voted for and put up a candidate
Doug…the socialist group of mps should leave before they are pushed and fit up with the AS tag which means political oblivion in terms of voters.Far better to lend some credibility and dignity to a new left wing party.and survive with their reputation and job for a few more years.The knight under orders have moved quickly,concentrating on a witchunt rather than parliament and we know his next move is slum clearence of our timid socialist group..Half a dozen and the members that have bailed out and we are back on the road to recovery.
Goldbach..I am not misled just pointing to how the Torys will exploit the Town and also saying that if they had proper investment and development then the people could have a half decent town with a nice backdrop.But of course they have been swimming against the tide for many years with people like Lord Mandelson and up the road Bliar.and all the rest of those people totaly unsuitable for a Constituency like hartlepool…Still the advantage over Bolton is that you are not Bolton.,even though you dont have a proper football team.somthing could and should be done for these abandoned northern towns.
I agree. Something should be done, and should have been done between 1997 and 2010. Mind you, Bolton had Fred Dibnah – give me him any day rather than Mandelson.
P.S. Can we set up a special place where SteveH and his admirers can debate at length.
Yes but without Steve H we wouldnt have any opposition,and we all know how that doesn’t work.We have recently introduced walsher and we get the occasional flotsam drift in..Unfortunately I think the cut ✂ backs in the NHS and the virus a few of our posters have droped away and are no longer with us,despite having proped up the system that saw them into the departure lounge….?
Cutbacks and curfew more than the virus. SARS-CoV-2 results in covid-19 which has a 0.033% fatality rate.
Scientific socialists respect evidence. It might be disguised by ONS for UK and WHO do provide IFR data.
The Peoples Press hits the nail on its head again today with its Editorial: Labour and the coming elections: trying to lose?
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labour-and-local-elections-trying-lose
Well worth a read.
So mr establishment gets it wrong again condemning the Bristol violence … The lack of knowledge of politics is breathtaking in having missed a chance to blame the government and the Bill now paused in parliament and pushes the blame on criminal rioters..Any Opposition leader would have seen the open goal and tore into the government first for pushing the right of free speech and assembly and distorting the Covid laws to drive a coach and horses through the emergency measures to make draconian laws permenent He could have pointed to the employment laws being trampled along with wages ,benefits and conditions of employment..He could have pointed at numerous breaches of human rights and decency.No he didn’t explain that the rioters were a example of society braking down and people backed into a corner with no longer any future and no pensions or welfare to reassure them that its still a society for them..This imbecilic lawyer with just over Six years experience as a mp and none as a human being has just confirmed that the Labour party offers nothing for the working-class people of the fragmented United kingdom….How could you have voted for this monstrosity?.I was stuck in a jungle in Cambodia,but still found time to research this parasite and vote for anyone but this Zionist paid plant of the Apartheid regime in Tel Aviv.
Good post, ta Joseph. Nort only is Sir Keir oncce again showing that he just doesn’t understand the role and nature of Protest in a civilised society, he’s making a loud clamation that he shouldn’t be IN Labour, nevermind its leader. He’s bad news that Keir Rodney Starmer.
Wow. You did well to find some of what’s left of the jungle in Cambodia. Did you get to Battambang, or Kampot or Kep, or the brilliant Russian Market in Phnom Penh?
Kampot….Goldbach is my nearest city,but its a gem 💎.I prefare to live amongst the local population,although I admit that I do enjoy the ocassional drink with ex pats although there are not many left now,basically Aussies,Yanks,french and the Odd ones like me and my wife who have assimilated into the local population and life..We still have plenty of jungle and wildlife,but at my age its difficult to trek the Boker mountains ,LE ANG,but I am also keen on my boat trips from kep to the islands with my grandchildren.IT looks like I will never come back to my abandoned farmhouse in France or see my relatives in the UK and Ireland,.I didnt realise that when I locked up the house and parked my car outside the house 18 months ago it was a goodbye.I have been coming back to the UK and Europe for the last eight years and didn’t realise that travel would not be an option and evacuation from Cambodia was not possible and now looks like a good decision,looking at the deteration in freedoms in the west and the draconian laws.I new the Torys would get me one day,its just Ididnt think they would capture the whole country.as well.
There is an ex-pat in Battambang who runs a cafe where he shows socialist films. Or at least there was a few years ago.
Goldbach..I have never visited Battambang still such a lot to see and little time to do it.I always thought that time would catch up with us one day.I had a friend go there with a catholic Charity cafod,but unfortunately I was battling CV 19that I had brought from my travelsUk in Paris via bejing into Phnom Penh ..and really didn’t feel up to mtg despite it being less disabling than the dengue fever I have had twice in eight years probably in kampot.Not so much a problem “in the sticks” surprisingly.,or to be more accurate jungle..We have carved out a life here both of us ,we married as teenagers and forged an interesting life and like all activists we shared everything even a cell across from each other…My wife lost interest in the Labour party many years ago,she says “that lot lost the plot years ago” and I lost it 9months ago when my International membership ran out..When I think of the times the Police have arrested me I was only ever convicted in Pretoria under the “Pass laws” .Even in Ulster I was arrested with a baton to the head and no criminal charges,,but that was the late sixtys and early seventies.Nowadays it looks like any protest will if it goes through a two thirds life sentance 10years and financial ruin.I only wish I could be on the front line and beat the Bill with my walking stick..but I know some a minority are just ordinary people looking to make a good living out of representing the establishment system.and thats life.Worker against worker and a working class divided is what they thrive on.Lets hope and pray that the Bill is defeated by voting against or a miracle of the Torys abstaining.To think a Labour leader actually thought of voting for this or abstaining beggers belief….but I suppose with people like the working-class kinnock family who ratted on their own people in the valleys,then anything is possible with the Neo Labour party.
Apologies for the spelling dictation commers verbs etc .poor education and a cavalier attitude to life.