Analysis Breaking

Labour plans to abstain on Tory bill to make ‘annoying’ protests punishable by 10 years in prison

Shadow Justice Secretary David Lammy informed MPs of leadership’s intention – but will Starmer cave after Clapham Common policing scandal?

Labour is planning to abstain (again) on the Tories’ bill that will make ‘annoying’ someone by protesting a criminal offence punishable by up to ten years in prison.

The bill is clear that mere ‘serious annoyance’ will become grounds for a prison sentence comparable with those for poisoning with intent to kill or cruelty to a child.

In fact, such annoyance doesn’t need even to be caused – the sentence can apply if a ‘risk‘ of it is created:

But David Lammy, Labour’s Shadow Secretary of State for Justice, has told the party’s MPs that Keir Starmer intends to have them abstain when the bill is voted on in the Commons.

Starmer has already abstained on Tory bills to legalise murder and rape in the UK by undercover ‘intelligence sources’ and to legalise torture and other war crimes by UK forces overseas.

Will he cave in after tonight’s shocking scenes of police manhandling women at a vigil for murdered victim Sarah Everard at Clapham Common – and actually oppose for once? Or will he continue in his determination to avoid opposition at all costs?

Labour back-bencher Jon Trickett has already announced that he will vote against the bill – and other left MPs are expected to follow:

The bill will also criminalise the Gypsy Roma Traveller lifestyle, as Unite’s Howard Beckett has pointed out:

Other union leaders also led where Starmer seemingly will not, while Labour activists pointed out the nonsense of a ‘Labour’ leader siding with the oppressor:

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  1. Big Brother 2021. Official Newsflash! HMP Plague Island is an open prison run by The Chumocracy backed up by Israeli trained jackboots. Long Live Democracy. Democracy Is Dead!

  2. So much for Starmer ever again having the right to claim to support civil liberties. He’s helping the bill pass because- like Blair- he thinks Labour HAS to support the crushing of Left activism in order to win. Blair never had do that- Labour would have won in ’97 on any manifesto and with any leader, the Tories and everything they’d done were hated by the electorate- but he did it anyway, and Keir is convinced he must do the same. Never mind that the voters never demanded that Labour support the destruction of activist culture to get into power.

  3. Absolutely extraordinary! £10000 fines and 10 years in prison. Unsurprising support from the Knighted Policeman.

  4. So lammy will be out on his backside come the next election the bloody hypocrite who supported the London riots that started with the shooting dead of Mark Duggan and started the riots in his constituency that spread across London.What have we got now is a one party state with no Opposition and a national police force to back it up.Draconian laws tested and perfected in NIreland and coming to you the great British public.

  5. If only we were staying in the EU, none of this legislation would be able to be passed in the UK as it would be against EU legislation.
    Wonder how the Lexitiers that were advocating leaving the EU to enshrine the supremacy of Westminster above the European Parliament feel right now?
    This is why the most right wing among the Tories wanted Brexit, the EU was putting to many impediments for them to do as they pleased. Welcome fascist Britain.

    1. Not in the least bit helpful Maria, we are where we are, and your comment can only serve to create division here to no useful purpose. Needless to say, Starmer’s mouthpiece here agrees with you, and that should tell you plenty.

      1. John Thatcher, would it be helpful to keep quiet about the fact that Lexetiers “shut” themselves? I came to Britain in the early 1980’s and what I witnessed was the left of the Labour Party losing to Thatcher, Kinnock never supported the miners and the left within the Party cave in.
        Then, the left lost the Party to Blair and when finally by a mistake of the right wingers we managed to elect Corbyn, the left lost again to the right wingers and now we have Starmer as leader. Does keeping quiet help? No from where I am standing, the British left appears unable to learn lessons and do it better next time.
        So perhaps, just perhaps the British Labour left need to be more aware and learn the first lessons in politics:
        1-That you can only achieve what is possible, pursue the impossible (People’s Vote) and you are going to lose
        2-Aim to get the respect of your opponents but if you cannot earn their respect earn their fear.
        3-Once you elect a leader that you like, stay with the leader, allow him/her to lead you rather than you trying to lead him or her.
        Despite the British left constantly using the reference of “the grass roots” you don’t appear to fully understand your own simile . Grasses are important in a garden, but you need a gardener to keep on top of the grasses; without a good gardener, taking control of the grasses any garden will become engulf by grasses and stop been a pleasant garden.
        Hence, the role of the leader is to be a gardener. The main problem as I see it, is that the British left didn’t allow Corbyn to be a gardener and the grasses took over.
        Those who voted for remain wanted a People’s vote and Corbyn failed to take charge. Corbyn should have suspended Umuna from the Party whip the moment he presented a motion in favour of remaining in the EU if May failed to negotiate Brexit. Corbyn should have made clear to, that any Labour MP voting against triggering article 50 would have the Labour whip removed.
        Whatever, the members of the PLP liked or no, every single one of them have gone to the General Election 2017 on a Labour Manifesto clearly stating that Labour would enact Brexit and that was all it was to it. I doubt Corbyn would have earned the respect of the right wingers but they would have fear him and could have earned Corbyn the respect of the of the wider public.

    2. Maria,I ….Why do you keep picking at a open wound,whats the point far better to concentrate on a small group of mps and a couple of unions to form a new socialist working class party..ITs a long and bumpy ride but dumping the Labour party is the only way and now is the opportune time.We don’t want praise from Stephen Hall we need to leave the parasites to contemplate what they have destroyed for Israeli intelligence.and the Zionist fanatics.

      1. Joseph, the point is that perhaps the British left will reflect of what they do. Lexetiers voted in favour of leaving the EU because they wanted the British Parliament to be independent from the EU and be sovereign.
        No though as to whom wanted Brexit (the hard right) Hence, clearly they weren’t going to get Lexit no if Farage and the Tories have anything to do it with enacting Brexit.
        Hence, the Lexetiers have what they wanted and voted for: the sovereignty of British Parliament above the EU’s Parliament.
        We careful what you wish in case you get it, comes to mind. Because somehow I don’t believe the Lexetiers, envisioned the sort of punitive and to be frank, fascistic legislation that will be used against the trade unions and the left more than against drug dealers.
        Joseph you know it and I know it, these pieces of legislation will be used primarily against us. Don’t you just miss a tiny bit the EU?

    3. It’s over, Maria. There’s no good reason to try and keep up the fight for the right-wing, pro-austerity cause of Remain/Rejoin. If Remain had won, it would have been impossible for any future Labour or other Left government to carry out any socialist policies- you can’t do anything socialist if you can’t nationalise, run occasional deficits or raise tax on the rich- what was done to SYRIZA proves it. And none of the antisocialist, proausterity aspects of the EU can ever be changed, since no EU policies have ever been changed in an egalitarian or proworker direction.

      The tiny number of mildly social-liberal aspects about the EU are too pathetic and insignificant to matter, and none would stop this law- Boris would just find a slightly different way to word it that would have the same effect.

      The fact that the right-wing, antiworker pro-austerity LibDems were the hardline Remain party in ’19 proves that a socialist case for the EU cannot exist and that socialism can never be possible within the EU- as does the fact that every “social democratic” party in Europe is now antiworker, pro-austerity, and dying at the polls. There is simply no way to BE a pro-EU socialist, because the EU exists almost entirely to make socialism impossible. It has no other meaningful functions, no other purpose anymore. Anything progressive or humane in its origins died after 1989, when everything else even “social democratic” died throughout Europe.

      The only possible socialist direction regarding Europe is tro destroy the unchangeable and permanently Thatcherite EU, then replace it with a democratic and anti-austerity Europe-wide body,

      1. Kenburch, I never supported the People’s Vote despite voting to remain, I could see what was coming.
        To fellow members of Momentum that were supporting the People’s Vote I told them straight to stop, that pursuing “the People’s Vote” would mean losing the next General Election..
        That even remaining in the EU was not going to protect us from enforced austerity as we will ruining the chances of getting a Labour government under Corbyn.
        Hence, the choice was:
        1-Pursue the People’s Vote for a chance of remaining in the EU but getting a Tory government that would impose austerity.
        2-Accept to leave the EU with Lexit and have the chance or rebuilding our industrial base and work towards creating high value jobs a publicly own NHS, nationalisation of the railways, support for British steel industry, work towards reducing inequality.
        The reply of many new Momentum’s members post 2017 GE, was: why we cannot have it all? Why we cannot remain in the EU and have a Labour Government with Corbyn on N.10?
        I gave up trying to explain that we have lost the vote and that the first rule is to respect a democratic vote, rather than trying to cheat by having another vote.
        When we lost the GE, they carry on blaming anybody else but themselves. So I have not sympathy from the “remoners” just pointing out that this isn’t what the Lexetiers were bargaining for. Perhaps with the benefit of the hindsight remaining in the EU could have been a more palatable option that getting Brexit with the Tories in government and with a large majority.

      2. Maria, Corbyn AGREED to the People’s Vote if elected. That was as far as he could go towards Remain and everyone knew it. Why the hell wasn’t that enough?

        There was no chance of getting a referendum BEFORE the election and everyone knew it- therefore, there was no point in pushing for a referendum before the election.

        What mattered was getting the Tories out- except to Starmer and Co, who chose to destroy Labour’s chances by pushing for a second referendum- the first referendum was ALREADY a “People’s Vote”, btw- there was no chance of reversing Brexit before the election, little at best of reversing it afterwards- or of deliberately embarassing Corbyn at the ’19 party conference by leading a mass Remain rally when there was no reason to lead one.

        Corbyn’s “soft Brexit” was the best that could be done, Maria- it was pointless to try an fight for the neoliberal austerity LibDem position of staying in the EU and accepting the EU status quo for the rest of eternity. Nobody but rich Anglo-Saxons in London wanted that.

      3. Kenburch, Corbyn should have never agreed to hold a People’s Vote it should have refused and stay with the 2017 Labour Manifesto that stipulated that Labour in power will enact Brexit.
        Corbyn should have kept his word and kept going 52% of the electorate voted to leave the EU. I voted to remain but I accepted that I lost.
        That is democracy you accept the result of the ballot box rather than tried to undue it. It make Corbyn unelectable because clearly:
        1- He could never kept control of a rebellious PLP
        2- It became apparent that the couldn’t even control the membership
        Hence, the 2019 manifesto became wet paper, nobody with a brain trusted anything in that manifesto anymore as it was clear that Labour Conference could undue anything in the manifesto as Corbyn was going to cave in to the meme of “Labour Conference is sovereign” and the PLP were going to carry on sabotaging him.
        Boris want because as opposed to Corbyn he was resolute, he withdrew the Tory whip to every single Tory MP that voted in favour of remaining in the EU. Boris make clear that he was in charge while the public no longer knew who was in charge of the Labour Party, because Corbyn wasn’t in charge.

      4. Maria – But wasn’t Corbyn elected (twice) on a manifesto of creating a members led party and Corbyn has clearly stated on camera (on at least 2 occasions since stepping down) that he had no choice but to go with a CV because that is what the vast majority of the membership wanted.

    4. Maria, much as I may agree with many of your responses, in this instance, you, really, have to differentiate between Brexit and Lexit.

      Brexit is the hard-Right, sh*t-show that’s unravelling, before our very eyes. The one designed to make the 1%ers wealthy beyond their febrile dreams. To give them more money than they could, possibly, ever spend.

      Lexit is the Jeremy Corbyn version of Brexit that would have served democracy, while keeping us closely aligned with the EU’s more liberal aspects, such as Human Rights and Workers’ Rights.

      For clarity, in the 2016 Referendum, I voted to Remain, without hesitation and without reference to anyone else, even Jeremy Corbyn.

      Had there been a second referendum – a, so-called, People’s Vote – between Lexit and Remain, I’m not at all sure how I would have voted. After what’s happened between 2016 and now, I would have been sorely tempted to vote for Lexit.

      Neoliberalism is an appalling system, whether foreign or domestic. Lexit may have been our chance to reset, and there is support for that throughout the EU.

      Internationalist Socialism, is the Left’s answer to neoliberalism.

      1. George Peel, I agree with you, this is why despite voting to remain, I never supported the People’s Vote. I was happy to leave with Lexit and with a Labour government in N.10
        The point that I am trying to make, clumsily perhaps is that with the material conditions at the time of the Referendum in 2016 Lexetiers should have been perhaps more aware and realised that voting in favour of leaving the EU was never going to deliver their desired Lexit, but what it has deliver a nightmare.
        You are right Corbyn was always critical of the EU and even him was saying the EU needs reforming but I am 7.5 out 10 in favour of remaining in the EU.

    5. I wonder if your views had been the same if the UK had joined the euro prior to the global crash 2008 and the EU had emptied our bank accounts .like they did the Greeks & Cypriots?

      The EU is NO defender from fascism. Quite the opposite.

      1. Or if, still a member we had the bill for Covid bailouts of all the poor European states along with a promise to return to a balanced budget at the earliest opportunity, meaning very hard austerity for the foreseeable future. In fact, forever.

      2. Toffee, although I voted to remain, I never supported the People’s Vote and blame the “constructive ambiguity” over the EU for the catastrophic results in the GE of 2019.
        Right now I believe the EU is a protection from fascism, their isn’t a way the Frenchs, the Spaniards, the Italians, the Greeks or the Portuguese are going to allow the EU to pass the sort of legislation the Tory government is passing and enacting it.
        You are right the EU bureaucracy doesn’t care about working closely with regimes that have appalling records on Human Rights, but allowing fascism to take over between the EU, don’t think so.
        You only have to see how the EU is keeping Orban on a short leash. He is only allowed to go so far, even Hungary isn’t passing the type of legislation the Tories are now imposing on us. No because Orban doesn’t want to but rather because he cannot do so.

    6. Spain, Hungary, France, Greece, Germany, would never have allowed this?

      1. I don’t know about Hungary or Germany, but any government that tries to impose legislation along the lines of the Covert Human Inteligence Sources Bill, or restrict protest in Spain, France or Greece will have its work cut out.
        Nothing similar was passed in Francois Spain, or in Greece or Portugal under fascist regimes.
        Franco’s government routinely denied permissions for workers demonstrations and striking in Spain was forbidden for example.
        However, it was never legal that the police or the military could break the law in the way the Covert Human Intelligence Sources Bill or the Overseas Personnel Bill allows it.
        Of course the police and the military were brutal and broke the law and for the most part got away with it, but it was never legal.
        Furthermore, workers engaged in wild cat strikes and for the most part won them unlike the organised and legal British Trade Unions and left groups engaged in arm struggle.
        Why do you think that BA is targeting British workers for redundancies and hire and rehire tactics but leaving the Spanish workers well alone? Think about it.

    7. Britain was fascist long before Brexit.

      The anti fascists are no better either.

      1. It’s funny how someone who’s Never voting labour again – and started posting on here with such a user-name long before Jeremy stood down – spends so much time posting on a left-wing blog. And as for the anti-fascists being no better than the fascists, it is of course complete and total B/S, AND, exactly the sort of thing that a fascist would dissemble.

        Like Trump for example!

  6. This isn’t just about Starner! We are so sick of people trying to say everything will change if the party rids itself of this “Tory bastard” Practically all the labour MPs supports this Troll of a leader. We cannot afford to forget what all those same Labour MPs did to Corbyn, the members and the general public when they worked deliberately to keep “labour” out of government. When will people realise enough is enough!?.

    1. Andrew – Unfortunately many of the self appointed guardians of ‘the left’ who contribute to these pages are also advocating that Labour supporters should work to keep Labour out of government.

      1. I am in full agreement with those wanting to shut this useless party down I am on the left always have been and after 58 years I am ashamed I was a Labour member and activist. You remember please, all we ever wanted was a fairer society.

      2. For future reference please view me as a “self appointed guardian of ‘the left” Not! A human being who is angry because the party he was loyal to for 58 years lied cheated and betrayed him. #NoLongerALabourDoormat

      3. Andrew you are in front of me in membership of the Labour party by eight years.Ditto on your 2comments and of course after I voted for the miserly candidates in the Labour party leader election and anyone but the knight I left the Labour party and joined a union..Our one man band paid Shill Stephan Hall(ginge)is a good example of the right wing destroyers of the Labour party.

      4. Joseph – who is Stephen Hall, I don’t recall seeing his posts on these pages?

      5. We already know, based on his every move during his first year and a half as leader, that Starmer wouldn’t allow anything remotely “Labour” to happen in any government he led, It goes without saying that a Labour leader who treats the Left as the enemy can’t be different than the Tories in power. And there simply can’t be any policies significantly to the right of the ’17 and ’19 manifestos that would be even minutely different than the Tories. Why should the Left trusty any leader who treats them like Starmer and Evans have done? You’d have to concede- if you look at the matter with any decency at all- that the Left haven’t done anything whatsoever to deserve any of this- and if you look at it with any common sense, you’d have to admit that the polls prove Starmer and Evans unprovoked nastiness towards the Labour rank-and-file simply isn’t working.

        Keir needs to end his war against the Left, readmit all those unjustly suspended or expelled. readmit Corbyn- he did nothing wrong in releasing his statement and the EHRC’s rules said he had the right to say what he did- and finally do what he was elected leader to do: fight the Tories, not the socialists.

        Labour can’t win by becoming a Left-free zone. And other than Keir, nobody out their in reality is obsessed with punishing and delegitimising his predecessor.

        And nobody will applaud his decision to whip abstentions on the protest ban bill. People who want protest banned would never vote for any party other than the Tories or UKIP or BNP or whatever party Farage founds next. People who “don’t like peace campaigners ’round here” never hold Labour or even mildly humane values on anything. It’s a waste of time trying to appease them.

      6. What point would there be in Labour supporters voting Labour with Starmer as leader? His insistence on purging massive numbers of socialists can only mean he wants to strip the party of all socialist policies- no party ever stayed radical while purging radicals from the membership- and there’s no set of policies to the right of those from ’17 and ’19 that can still be considered Labour by anyone-Labour wasn’t Labour between ’97 and ’10, after all, and was just barely Labour in ’15.- and the party can’t survive if everyone attracted by the vision of the future Corbyn offered are either suspended, expelled or driven away in despair. In the May elections, and in all others under Starmer’s leadership, no one who isn’t at least 55 and isn’t a cynical, bitter, life-hating careerist or a militaristic reactionary will vote Labour. Nobody wanted Starmer to make the party into a dead zone where dreams are banned and vision derided, and none of the actual voters were demanding that Starmer make Corbyn choose between exile or forever giving up his dignity by apologising for something he has no reason to apologise for while confessing to offences Starmer know neither Corbyn nor his supporters committed.

        No one believes a vote for Labour with Starmer leading it, and with Evans collectively persecuting its rank and file is a vote for change in any recognisable sense. Nobody is applauding Starmer and Evans’ pointless and completely unjustified anti-Left campaign, nobody is celebrating the blurring of differences, and nobody thinks a GE in which a right-wing party and a “centrist”(i.e., just barely less right-wing) opposition party who would be pledged to keep almost everything the same while only being mildly progressive on trivial, meaningless side issues could possibly matter.

        And the polls prove it.

        The lesson is clear- if you are the leader of the Labour Party, you can never get that party elected by treating the people who do most of the work of electing Labour governments- at any election, it’s only left-wingers doing the canvassing and doorbelling, or running the constituency offices and the CLP’s between elections; centrists NEVER do any significant amount of that- and you can’t win by making your party smaller in membership while making the membership powerless.

        There’s no good reason to even try any of that.

        Keir simply has no right to ask anyone to vote Labour, after all the damage he’s done. You can’t demand loyalty from those to whom you’ve SHOWN no loyalty, And you can’t reduce the choice to “it’s enough to elect something that calls itself ‘a Labour government- and what the Tories do is ok when WE do it”.

      7. kenburch – “And the polls prove it.”

        Unfortunately for us all the polls certainly proved it as far as JC’s unpopularity with the electorate was concerned We lost 61 seats.
        Keir’s current nett approval rating of +5% is higher than Jeremy ever managed to achieve throughout his tenure. Keir has some way to go before he descends to Jeremy’s level of unpopularity where two thirds of the electorate were expressing an active dislike for JC.

      8. Mr Ginge Hall @boxcartsend or centristdad.Steve H sh..davidh and many more aliases not found.How do you manage to sleep at night?Are you totally dishonest even to wriggling out of your slithering aliases you use to project your propaganda for the knight.And so mr Steve Hall (also known as Stephen by his mum)when are you going to show contrition for your treacherous behaviour in the Labour party.

      9. Joseph (or is it Carol ) – Oh dear, you’re at it again with the same tiresome drivel. I guess you must have somehow managed to convince yourself that it suites your false narrative in some way to repeatedly accuse me of using multiple aliases As I’ve quite clearly stated on numerous occasions the only user name I have ever used on these page is SteveH and my WordPress account name is stevedavidh just as yours is Carol O’Keefe. Both my username and my account name are clearly visible (just like yours and everyone else’s) on every post I make so your silly childish accusations that I am attempting to deceive are self evidently false.
        As I’ve said to you on many previous occasions you are more than welcome to try and prove otherwise, I am 100% sure that you will fail miserably.

        ps: I do not have and have never had a twitter or a facebook account

      10. Why is this right wing Troll SteveH allowed to drop his Scabs everywhere here?

      11. Steve H – Aren’t you getting a bit confused about who worked to keep Labour out of government?
        Since when has Iain McNichol, Emilie Oldknow and several other ex Southside employees been associated “the left” or for that matter Peter Mandleson, Tony Blair, Peter Hain ( so called Labour “grandees”), John Scarlett ( ex Intelligence services) Ephriam Mirvis (the Chief Rabbi),the past and present members of the PLP, the MSM including the BBC whose journalists and presenters did a hatchet job on us?

      12. Smartboy – As I’d suspected for a while you are obviously not as smart as you like to think you are. I have never expressed any support for any of the individual that you’ve named above. Not on these, or any other, pages. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

      13. Steve, comparisons to Corbyn’s personal popularity are inappropriate and, frankly, irrelevant:

        1) Corbyn is never going to stand for the leadership again;

        2) Corbyn’s unpopularity was largely manufactured by the PLP and the corporate media;

        3) The sources of Corbyn’s unpopularity were largely

        A) The now-totally-discredited AS Smear- even you, SteveH, would now have to admit that Corbyn did nothing whatsoever to deserve that particular torment;

        B) Starmer’s pointless insistence on pushing Corbyn to accept a second referendum- which he pledged to hold IF elected, which everyone knew was the soonest it could happen- and then, refusing to be satisfied that he’d damaged Corbyn enough by doing so, insisted on pushing for the party to try and get a second referendum BEFORE the election and to try and revoke Article 50, neither of which were ever going to be possible in the parliament that existed at that time, and Keir did this KNOWING that all that could come of pledging Labour to that pointless, hopeless, essentially antiworker position could do was cost Labour even more seats in the Red Wall without gaining any anywhere else- there were no seats anywhere in the South of England or Scotland- the only majority Remain areas- where Labour could beat a Tory or LibDem incumbent by running as all-out Remain;

        4) Labour’s poll ratings under Starmer now prove Labour would not have done any better at all in ’19 if Corbyn had stood down and been replaced by Starmer at that time- they prove that it does nothing but damage for a Labour leader to come in and treat his predecessor as a disgrace and a pariah while making that predecessor’s supporters completely unwelcome in the party;

        5) The comparison between Labour support in Corbyn’s last month as leader is invalid- Corbyn was a lame duck on his way out the door, and nobody in his situation would have had any more popularity than he did- and the fact that Starmer, as a leader whom was NOT treated with utter contempt and disrespect by his own MPs and who was NOT subject to a withering, relentless campaign of hate and slander, was inevitably going to be seen as temporarily more popular than one who was subject to those attacks on an unending basis.

        Nothing anyone’s saying here is about replacing Starmer with Corbyn- Corbyn will never seek the leadership again, and you know that perfectly well- it’s about replacing Starmer with someone who doesn’t treat the party membership as the enemy, who doesn’t make perpetuating slander against his predecessor, and who DOES recognise that the point of being Leader of the Opposition is to OPPOSE what the government does and advocate for a clear, radical alternative.

        It’s about keeping the policies of the ’17 and ’19 elections- the first elections in decades where Labour actually stood for anything other than “it’s our turn” and “it’s ok when WE do it”- and getting a leader- again, not Corbyn, so give the “they just want Jeremy back” thing a rest, because it’s a tiresome lie- and but with a leader who is able to project strength and is capable of defending the party and himself when attacked.

        Keir- whose only ideas are to move the party right and treat his predecessor as the antichrist- can never be that leader.

        After being forced, even by some on the right wing of the party- your wing- to climb down from his embarrassing and frankly offensive attempt to find a “centre ground” that doesn’t exist on police brutality- Keir has destroyed his credibility with everyone- not because he climbed down, but because his initial position sent the clear message that he won’t stop until he’s erased all major differences between Labour and the Tories, as Blair did and as Nandy and Phillips would have done had either of them won the leadership. He has dragged the party to a 13 point deficit in the polls- we were all assured that with “any other leader”.

        What more evidence do you need that it simply doesn’t work to have Keir as leader and it simply doesn’t work for the party to focus almost entirely on “not sounding like Corbyn anymore”?

        And when are you finally going to admit there’s no good reason to keep ATTACKING Corbyn. He’s out of the leadership. At the moment, he’s out of the PLP. isn’t that enough for you?

    2. True. The right-wing majority of the PLP-a group who only hold the seats they hold-seats ANY Labour candidate would automatically win at any GE-because Kinnock or Blair imposed them decades ago, invariably against the wishes of their own CLPs- need to stand down and go away- or be MADE to stand down and go away through the adoption of Open Selection or term limits- because they’ve done nothing but damage to Labour. Thanks to them, no one under 40 will turn out to vote Labour at elections and no new voters from any other age group is coming in to replace them. Labour can’t win by appealing strictly to older voters and solely to people who hate socialism and the dream of a different, better world, by saying “Bah, Humbug!” to any vision of life other than the existing ugliness.

      1. An interesting piece by Tom Blackburn in yesterday’s Tribune on the ‘younger generation’ flocking to Labour.

        How Keir Starmer Alienated ‘Generation Left’

        The emerging generation is the most left-wing in decades, driven by a desire for fundamental social change – but while they flocked to Jeremy Corbyn, Keir Starmer’s war against the Left has turned them away.

      2. Its not just the younger generation this clown is alienating. He’s alienating everyone whether socialist or not who has a sense of decency and fair play, who respects democracy and who hates vindictive and spiteful behaviour. He hasn’t a snowballs chance in hell of winning the next election. He knows that but he and his successors are there for the long game – eradicate socialism over the next few years, regroup and rebuild and maybe in 15 years or so we’ll get a toothless pale blue “labour” government that will be acceptable to the powers that be.

      3. Absolutely spot on! Labour is now nothing but a dumping ground for failed Tories, we need to get that new party going now! Or our youth will have nothing absolutely nothing to look forward to.

      4. We will just have to hope that USA, Norway, France bring about a regime change because of the way our civilians are being treated by the forces of law and order.

      5. The SCG had better find some bottle from somewhere or they will be compared to the Democrat party’s, left hunch,who wouldn’t force a health care debate.

    1. Stop it. That is a clear case of being a grotesquist. Shame, beauty, goodness and truth lie within. OK on occasions very, very deep within. ☮️

  7. One other thing I’ve noticed….

    Where’s the call for the death penalty for killer cops??

    Every time a copper dies we get the same, or how the plod simply must be armed…’Bring back the death penalty for cop killers’ the home sec. of the day, chief constables of just about every county and the right wing press shriek.

    How many people have died as a result of an encounter with the old bill since, say, 2000?

    My guess it’s as many -if not more – than have died in terrorist attacks.

    The public need protecting from the police as much as they need protecting from the public.

    And it wouldn’t take much to correctly divine the view of the knight of the realm on this one given his form when DPP.

  8. And another thing on ‘arm the plod’

    The suspect is/was himself an armed copper…

    And had there been an equivalent number of men arrested at that gathering than women then I’m certain the use of the pepper spray and the batons would’ve been liberally applied… That’s not to say there probably was a few close calls on the women present, arrested or not.

    On a personal level I think the gathering shouldn’t have taken place due to covid restrictions, but you’re completely fooked if that reason gives the old bill licence to act the way they did.

    They’ve only further sullied their already piss-poor public view of them; we already knew most of them couldn’t find their own arses with both hands and a map, but still they’re too thick to do anything to improve their image.

    Its not just the ‘rags who are to blame for measures that have given plod licence to act as they do. IIRC blliarite governments passed something like 3000 laws affecting civil liberties by the back door while keeping people distracted with the foxhunting bill.

  9. And these right wing hypocritical journalists calling for the protection of women are probably the same twunts who are shrieking about the ‘infringement of people’s civil liberties’, and the ‘appalling abuse of the right to privacy by dogooders’ when they pilloried de piffle’s nosy lefty busybody neighbour’ when he phoned the plod after hearing the ruckus coming from de piffle”s tart’s pad not that long ago…

  10. Looking at these extracts of the bill I can see how easily such a new law will be used against pickets. The clauses will return the law to the Trade Disputes and Trade Union Act 1927 (passed to punish trade unions after the General Strike, May 1926) and the nineteenth-century common law. For Labour to abstain says so much, indeed too much, about the new management of the Labour Party and its supporters.

    1. At last a veteran of the battles of yore. They tase 10yr old girls now. She had a hammer and shears but there were only two or three police there.

  11. Last night’s events, not so pretty Oatels planned legislation is just proving point that we are losing all our democratic rights and liberties one by one. They are stopping short of shooting people. And Labour again wants to stand by and enable the full and complete creation of a fascist state. For me the similarities are shouting out. We need to act, to show that we are not taking this lieing down. The. Road to fascism is a slippy one, and I am concerned that this country is well on the way towards it. This would have been so avoidable…….

  12. ‘They are stopping short of shooting people.’

    Err…No, they’re not. James Ashley, Harry Stanley, Anthony Grainger, Mark Duggan…to name just a few

    If they get the urge to shoot you, they sure as hell will. And they’ll walk.

    And when they’re not shooting unarmed civilians, they’re tasering the blind…And what happens to them?

    They get ordered to apologise. They don’ty do it of their own free will.

      1. Could’ve sworn I’d included him in that list… My bad, as they say. 😕

      2. Oh, and we both forgot cressida dick’s involvement.

        No ‘Nuremburg defence’ for you and your lot this time, neither, dicky…

    1. You may like to know that the European council are taking the UK to court for the collusion by the RUC and British crown forces in the murder of Pat Finucane a NIrish human rights lawyer.Armed police and security services have been murdering ordinary civilians involved in protests human rights for many many years and are still supporting protestant terror groups in the intimidation,beatings,and crippling of ordinary Catholics in Derry and Strabane and has got worse since the DUP \loyalist terror groups mtgs over the border issue.Do you want this as normal life in the uk as it is in NIreland were police are always armed and operate from barracks behind sandbags.That’s what this bloody knight and the establishment Labour party want for the UK a never ending nightmare for ordinary people to be “lifted” from the streets and disappear.never to be seen again outside of a coffin.

    2. Why didn’t the trans section help. I’ve seen them get stuck in on several occasions. Not against the cops, true enough, but they really went to town on some opponents.

  13. This government needs to remember this from JFK: “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”

    1. Indeed, Paul.

      And when (not IF) there’s more rioting/violent disorder – As there inevitably will be if these bastards continue down their current route – I’ll bet the old bill get the payrise they’ll be after, with zero grumbling from the politicians (ALL denominations).

      And you’ll hear that worn-out load of old bollocks about them ‘putting their lives on the line every day’

  14. Off topic, sorry.

    Filled my online census in & omg the questions are unbelievable & intrusive. Never had to fill a census with all those questions before !!

    On a positive note, I played the census at its own game. Religion = Corbynista 🙂

  15. I have a cunning plan. Once they pass the Bill, you could invite Starmer to make a speech at Speakers’ Corner and lots of people could make complaints that they were seriously annoyed. 10 years in the cooler?

    1. I’m afraid that Max thinks that speaker corner is a closet in the HOC where he can plot with Tories, Libs, Unionists etc.

  16. “Unfortunately many of the self appointed guardians of ‘the left’ who contribute to these pages are also advocating that Labour supporters should work to keep Labour out of government.”
    I refer you to the report “The Work of the Labour Party’s Governance and Legal Unit in relation to antisemitism, 2014-2019”

    1. Here we go! lots Starmer supporters spewing lie turds on us all again conveniently forgetting the 5 years of Lies cheating smearing fake antisemitism bullshit betrayal on behalf of the Tories etc etc etc. You want to know why labour is seen as the party of betrayal? Look to all the filthy right wingers who have bought bribed and cheated their way into influence in our party. Their paid Trolls have even weaselled their way into these threads. Only one reason that is to plant their filthy right wing agenda. We need a new party free from all the pigs.

  17. Surely this will mean Johnson and Starmer will both end up in prison, sharing a cell even like Fletcher and Godber, only without the. cheeky charm . . . well without ANY charm. Sharing their dirty magazines and helping each other with their personal needs. (Feeling distinctly queasy now . . .)

  18. It gets worse by the day. Almost makes you wonder whether Sir Keith is an establishment plant…!

    1. I think he is, just like Blair before him, but that is just my instinct, I can’t prove it.

      1. We already know there’s a good chance Labour will not survive his tenure- his mates are already planning SDP/National Labour 2.0- that’s what TIG/CUK was supposed to be- Keir & Co somehow haven’t noticed that TIG/CUK only won 10,000 votes in the entire UK in ’19.

  19. Govt wants to make disrupting ‘pillars of democracy’ a specific offence! Increasing poverty is disruptive! Increasing homelessness is disruptive! Creating climate emergency is disruptive! If govt truly want to decrease disruption create a fairer, more sustainable economy!!!
    A democracy demands the human right to peaceful protest is an essential ‘exceptional circumstance’ to covid restrictions!!!
    Say it loud, say it clear & say it often; media, politicians, civil service, judiciary, security services etc are overwhelmingly pillars of privilege NOT pillars of democracy!!!

  20. Were Max and The Womaniser ever to be imprisoned it will be the first case in history of a mass breakout by warders.

  21. Stop conflating ‘Freedom of Speech’ with illegal crowd gatherings. that have the potential to spread the Covid virus & kill people.

    1. Yes do as you’re told and fall in line with a mass murder apartheid supporting right wing labour party! Steve Richards our local Troll!

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