Readmission comes after right-wing ‘coup’ on NEC
Keir Starmer has poured further contempt on his own ‘inquiry’ that he set up to buy time rather than take action himself on the damning internal party report that was leaked to the public after he became Labour leader.
According to the Huffington Post, former party director Emilie Oldknow has been reinstated as a member along with ‘a number of Labour officials’ after being suspended because of the material and allegations in the leaked report – but Starmer instituted the Forde Inquiry to examine the report’s allegations (and, shamefully, the circumstances of its leaking).
And the Forde report has not yet been published – or even provided to Starmer internally – according to an email the SKWAWKBOX received today from the inquiry’s press office.
The report was originally meant to be published last summer, but was then supposedly delayed to December – and then delayed again to ‘early 2021’. The SKWAWKBOX contacted the inquiry press office earlier today to ask whether a firm date had been set for the release of its findings and to ask for comment on recent claims that the report had been delayed again in order to whitewash figures close to Starmer accused in the report.
And the response made explicitly clear that the Forde Inquiry has not yet finished its deliberations or reached its findings:
Thank you for your email. The Forde Inquiry is continuing to carry out its work with scrupulous independence. Any suggestion that there has been any interference, in the form of requests for rewriting or otherwise, is completely false.
As a result of the excellent response to the consultation, the Panel has had a large amount of material to consider. As you would expect, the Panel also wanted to have the benefit of the report by the Equality and Human Rights Commission to inform its work (published 29 October 2020).
The Inquiry Panel has been working consistently ever since it was established and its intention remains to make recommendations in line with the Terms of Reference it was given.
According to Forde, the Labour staffers have not been reinstated because the inquiry has cleared anyone – and its investigation isn’t even finished yet . Instead, Labour insiders have told the SKWAWKBOX that the decision has been pushed through as a consequence of the recent right-wing coup that removed every left-wing sub-committee chair on Labour’s National Executive Committee (NEC). According to insiders, former disciplinary committee chair Yasmin Dar had refused to reinstate the staffers after they ‘apologised’ to the party, on the basis that the leaked report’s allegations – which included the diversion of general election campaign money into a secret right-wing fund – were too serious and the Inquiry’s findings must be seen first.
But after Dar was replaced in the coup by right-wing MP Shabana Mahmood, the reinstatement was rubber-stamped in accordance with the leadership’s wishes.
Keir Starmer has now twice poured contempt on his own inquiry – and on the members horrified by the contents of the leaked report. Last year, he pre-empted Forde’s findings by paying out approximately £600,000 to a group of ‘whistleblowers‘ – in a case Labour’s lawyers said the party would win – who were among those accused by the leaked report Forde was supposed to investigate. And now he has reinstated others, while the investigation is still unfinished.
What little remained of Starmer’s credibility is doubly shredded by his own hand.
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Here’s a link to the HuffPost report.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-party-officials-suspended-reinstated-leaked-report_uk_6017f097c5b6bde2f5c14cff
Surely the Labour Party’s disciplinary procedures and the Forde Report are two separate issues and are and should be independent of each other. I distinctly remember that when the Forde terms of reference were agreed that both Keir and Angela both emphasised that the inquiry shouldn’t impede the progress of normal Labour party disciplinary or HR procedures. At the time this stance was welcomed by many.
Whos the bimbo next to the Knight?.
Joseph – “Whos the bimbo next to the Knight?.
That’s quite a misogynistic comment to come from someone who professes to be a ‘socialist’.
Joseph O’Keefe – that’s Oldnow.
George peel…Was that a real name,surely thats one of those deep cover “type of made up names.?..Whats happened to the old Labour party with names like Wilson,brown and chumley warner.?..Grr Grr not very British whato!..!
Joseph – If you Google ‘Oldknow’ you will see that it is a very ancient English name originating in the Derbyshire area. Most of the Oldknows seem to come from quite modest means.
Well Steve H,I felt a little guilty when I made the “off the cuff judgment” on oldnow by saying “Bimbo” just on looks alone!Well I have researched the wife of Ashworth,her background and even the wedding day hug from saviour of the world Brown.I am now fully aware of her plotting and bullying,including particularly nasty comments about anyone standing in her advancment.Sherwood candidate for the working-class class Labour party?..Now I am fully aware of who that “Bimbo” his and why she is.!
Joseph – You ought to have looked up the meaning of the misogynistic word ‘bimbo’ while you were at it.
Bimbo is a slang term for a conventionally attractive, sexualized, naive, and unintelligent woman. ”
This sexist term doesn’t seem to fit very well with your description of her.
Yes steve H..I am well aware of the term bimbo and think that Ruthless nasty piece of work doesn’t define intelligence just a steak for ambition at any cost by any means necessary.And I am sure the Bimbo used other more natural attributes to feather her nest and in the words of one of our more familiar posters “And you know it” Steve H.
Joseph – You can wriggle and squirm all you like but sexism is an anathema to socialism.
We are all guilty of some type of “ism”thats why I researched this charming young woman and found out that not only was this charming young woman a wife of the charming mr Ashwoth(Honourable).but had been acussed of a untruthful,scheeming bully and a racist.Much to my horror shes always been known as a bleached blond bimbo on the horizontal circuit.Now I know that you are a very broad range type of person but I can honestly say I didn’t expect such thuggish behaviour amongst you Broad church worshipers..I am only glad I left the Labour party with my “honour” intact.Just think of the type of people that lurk behind the conference scene nowadays makes me tremble in fear….still I know you will enjoy your self if the junta allow one….good fishing cheerio stevie boy 👦👦👦.
Agreed, but it’s surprising that apologies have been sufficient give the evidence that the Forde inquiry is assessing. Is this ‘normal’ given the gravity of the issues. Why the rush? It doesn’t feel right.
Paul – I too was surprised by their reinstatement, I thought we’d seen the back of them for good.
I was also surprised that given the nature of the accusations that there cases don’t seem to have got as far as the NCC.
Hopefully the Forde report will explain the whys and wherefores.
I was also intrigued by the following in the HuffPost report A Labour source said: “It seems Labour HQ are trying to place all the blame on one person only as part of some deal with the hard left.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-party-officials-suspended-reinstated-leaked-report_uk_6017f097c5b6bde2f5c14cff
In what convaluted way does that make sense? In any working environment in this country, the content of those emails would invoke immediate suspension and no re-employment under any circumstances. What planet are you on to call out someone for being ‘sexist’ for calling the woman a bimbo but have nothing whatsoever to say about her appalling behaviour and rehiring? You should be disgusted at her, Starmer and yourself. Hipocrite.
lundiel – I have absolutely no problem with anyone being critical of Ms Oldknow, just the sexist manner in which he has done so.
Describing a woman as a bimbo isn’t sexism if she’s a bimbo.
Were someone to describe all women as bimbos that would be sexist.
Bimbos are a tiny minority but they exist.
I don’t watch the kind of programmes bimbos appear in but I’m aware of those programmes’ existence from the advertising of them in ad breaks. There’s one about rich millennials in Chelsea, one about eating slugs in the jungle, one about which couple will have sex on the beach today, one about Essex and fuck knows how many more – they’re everywhere – from the ads I can tell those programmes are full of bimbos of both genders and all varieties of sexual preference.
I reserve the right to call them bimbos – if it was good enough for the Princess of Wales it’s good enough for the fake-lips-tits-teeth-and-arses brigade.
They’re actually only my second-least-favourite kind of woman of either gender, although there are many who manage the double.
The ones I really cannot bear to see, hear or be anywhere near are those who within ten seconds of meeting assure you they’re not offensively loud, vulgar and effusive, they’re “bubbly.”
“BUBBLY” CAN FUCK RIGHT OFF.
Starmer is in power thanks to the many Labour Party members who were tricked into believing that he would fight for the Remain cause and the Second Referendum so dear to their hearts. It ought to have been obvious that Starmer would turn out to be precisely what he has proved to be and what his career as DPP made clear that he was. His membership of the Trilateral Commission was simply the icing on the careerist cake.
The PLP hates the Labour Party and has set out to cut it down to size, reducing its membership to the status of adoring clients, ready to do what they are told by the celebrities chosen by the NEC to sit in Parliament. In this work the likes of Ms Oldknow are invaluable. Like Beria and Kaganovich cynical manipulators and cheats who know how to thwart democracy are too valuable to be allowed to waste away until properly whitewashed.
bevin – But we’d already left the EU before any votes were cast in the leadership election and Keir Starmer made it quite clear during election campaign that Brexit was a war that had been lost.
The demand for a Peoples’ Vote had served its purpose – to weaken Corbyn’s leadership.
Paul – Do you mean the PV that the vast majority of the party’s membership and voters supported.
Yeah- AFTER pushing Corbyn for two years to promise a second referendum, in which the party itselt, in the name of unity, would stay officially neutral-
and in so doing forcing Corbyn to break one of his most important 2017 manifesto pledges- and then, after Corbyn had accepted that, REFUSING TO DO THE DECENT AND BE SATISFIED WITH GETTING THAT, but, instead, pushing on, for no good or decent reason, for Labour to go all out Remain- even to the point of continuing the unwinnable fight to try and revoke Article 50 in the then-current Parliament, even though there was never any chance for getting the votes for that result there- with Corbyn himself expected to speak for Remain in the second referendum- a position that could only have cost the party even more Red Wall seats without gaining any anywhere else from the “Get Brexit Done” Tories or the LibDems.
Starmer KNEW he was destroying whatever chances Labour had in the 2019 election and essentially guaranteeing massive Tory gains. He knew no other result was possible.
It was only after after getting this result and destroying his predecessor that Starmer admitted that the EU issue was settled.
kenburch – Or it could be that when he finally got off the fence following month after bloody month of prevarication neither side believed a word he said. (constructive ambiguity, who the f’ thought that one up)
It was Jeremy that promised us a members led party and it is undeniable that the vast majority of Labour Party members supported a CV.
What difference does it make whether the rank-and-file supported the unnecessary second vote, when everyone knew Labour would be doomed to lose as the party of the unnecessary second vote and that no pro-worker or socialist case for the second vote existed?
Why still act as if Labour would have won as an allout Remain party when you know it never could have won because of the massive losses such a stance had to cause in the heartlands?
kenburch – So what was it that prompted you to sneak in a comment on a thread that is 2 months old. Was it your burning desire to repeat the same old garbage?
Wow, did you research her family tree? Wouldn’t your time be better spent reading Marx? Or collecting coconuts? I ask out of love of course.
The title says it all…A large number of Labour party members are absolute imbeciles ….thats why many real Labour ( socialist)left the establishment Labour party because of these clowns.Shambles all round because nobody t can trust so called comrades in a broad church brigade slap stick farce..Put the dog down and bury it deep..The smell of corruption permeates the establishment Labour party.
Joseph – Currently you have an insurmountable problem. Without PR you are on a hiding to nothing.
I read the HuffPost article earlier with its usual references to the ‘hard left’ whereas the likes of Oldknow are called ‘moderates.’ Yet it didn’t enter my head that the investigation into the leaked report by Forde hasn’t even completed.
The question is if Forde comes out against them involved how will Starmer and Evans expect to get away with reinstating them. Or will they just carry on like they have done recently by sitting out controversial and disgraceful decisions.
Can’t help but wonder is this another one of Starmer and Evans being told by lawyers representing those accused of wrongdoing to readmit them into the party.
What a joke the party has become.
BackofBeyond = My understanding is that after Labour had received an interim copy of EHRC report the Labour Party engaged 2 QCs for an updated opinion and it was on their advice that the payout was made.
Surely the person who is really to blame for the payout is the one who issued an official party statement without first getting it cleared by the party’s lawyers.
What was the brief given tot he QCs? It would not be a blank piece of paper.
Whatever the law decides about ‘private’ email groups, the leaked emails themselves couldn’t be plainer, the group were actively undermining Corbyn and the Labour party.
“2 QCs” clearly looked only at the evidence provided to them by Starmer & Co., then gave the “advice” which was required. Duh.
Starmer clearly didn’t provide evidence of the right’s corrupt activities so the “opinion” was worthless in terms of who would win any case.
Lawyers’ opinions rely on clients telling them everything relevant – more cases are lost by stupid clients than bad lawyers.
Labour is now part of a conspiracy of land-grabbing, murdering gangsters even worse than the Tory establishment – piss on them all.
David – While it’s interesting to see your opinion but unfortunately, for now, it amounts to nothing more than supposition.
Publish legal advice
Don’t hold your breath
You seriously think Temporary Embarrassment passes the smell test
All this does is push more members to the left
When the challenge comes it will be a formality
My dog would win the next leadership contest
Then the fun begins with Thatchers greatest first
Did you mean “Payoff” No wonder the moneys run out and the begging bowl is empty.Start worrying about the wages of sin davidh ,SH.
2..Queens council asked a opinion?….Well chumly do you think theyre good for it?…erm?…you know what those pesky leftys have no money…erm good point chumly..!And theyre run by that fellow trilateral bottom feeder ….Better make it cash then !..erm problem there old boy!Looks like those lefty working-class oiks have run out of money.. Oh well its off to the bar then.Chumly have you ever wondered why that bunch of loosers are always looking for opinions?..Who knows chumly?
Joseph – Are you forgetting that Jeremy also sought legal advise on this at the beginning of 2020. It’s just a shame he didn’t think to do the same thing before he issued the official party statement that created the liability.
SteveH
If Temporary Embarrassment has pulled a fast one because he is just another bent brief then the liability will come back to him and Evans
FACT
A court case? How can messages placed on the LP computer (by error or whatever) be claimed to be private? Nevertheless, Labour may settle out of court to avoid a public airing and examination of the messages.
Will Forde do a Chilcot (a forensic examination of events leading up to the UK’s participation in the attack on Iraq) or a Hutton (a whitewash of the events leading to the death of David Kelly)? We will see.
What was the wording of their apology? And what about Nichol?
And don’t forget about Robin cook,who also had a convenient accident whilst out walking in the Highlands…His wife Gaynor was not allowed in the helicopter that flew him to hospital were he was dead on arrival.I bet Blair and Brown were grief stricken after his resignation over the war and bombing campaign….Funny old game politics innit..!
Joseph – Maybe this was a rather crude attempt to do away with him.
“A man who spat in Jeremy Corbyn’s face while the former Labour leader was out cycling with his wife at the height of the first coronavirus lockdown has been sentenced to 80 hours of community service.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/28/man-sentenced-to-community-service-for-spitting-at-jeremy-corbyn
Joseph he seemed to get off quite lightly for assaulting a senior politician in this way at the height of the first wave.
Offenders jailed for coughing and spitting at North West emergency workers – 11 May 2020
The following is a snapshot of some of the cases which CPS North West has charged and prosecuted in the past few weeks:
Greater Manchester
•Jamie McAdam was jailed for 13 months for spitting at a council security guard and at police officers on 27 March in Fallowfield whilst shouting he had coronavirus and hoped they’d die. In custody he damaged his cell with his own faeces and refused to be interviewed.
•On 3 April three police officers attended an incident in Little Hulton, Manchester, following reports that Shaun Sleigh, 31, had caused criminal damage and was in possession of a knife. When police officers arrived at the house, Sleigh was verbally abusive to them, assaulted one of the officers by grabbing her head and hair and while he was being arrested he coughed over the other two officers and claimed he had coronavirus. CPS North West prosecuted him for three assaults of emergency workers. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to a total of 36 weeks in prison.
• On 10 April Colin Dandridge, 34, was arrested at the Asda store in Dane St, Rochdale. The defendant was asked to leave the store by a member of security staff and then coughed repeatedly in the security guard’s face while claiming to have coronavirus. Outside the store he threatened to spit at the guard while repeating the claim that he had coronavirus. He was arrested by the police shortly afterwards. CPS North West prosecuted him for assault. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 16 weeks in prison.
•Ryan Walker, 24, was arrested on 8 April in Piccadilly Gardens in Manchester City Centre after he had been warned numerous times to leave the city centre by police officers and had coughed in their direction while claiming to have coronavirus. He then later spat at one of the arresting officers and racially abused another officer. CPS North West prosecuted him for assaulting an emergency worker, racially aggravated public order and being drunk and disorderly. He pleaded guilty was sentenced to 24 weeks in prison.
•Dale McNeil, 44, was sentenced to 12 weeks in prison, suspended for 12 months, a 12-week curfew and ordered to pay £100 compensation for spitting at a police officer who was assisting to transport him to hospital after he was found lying on the pavement in Stockport on 1 May. He pleaded guilty to common assault at Stockport Magistrates’ Court on 4 May.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/north-west/news/offenders-jailed-coughing-and-spitting-north-west-emergency-workers
”Labour may settle out of court to avoid a public airing and examination of the messages.”
Any litigant settling out of court can GTF, IMO. That was Corbyn’s Achilles heel. (Cue AH) Lawfully and legally oblige these snakes to publivcly demonstrate their abject shithousery.
Show these rats the courtesy they showed the left and show the nation just what these self-entitled, careerist gobshites are about.
Any litigant should do this without compunction, or lose any shred of credibility and/or respect, and be forever made persona non grata.
Paul – Considering the amount that has been spent on IT forensic auditors one would hope the former.
Forde’s reputation is on the line. Chilcot is remembered as a man of honour; Hutton (now dead) as someone who did what was wanted. (He didn’t have to be told!). As I recall, Hutton was a member of the legal team which represented the British army at the Widgery inquiry; we know how that ended, almost forty years later.
One additional point: did any of those who have been reinstated to the LP make racist or racially abusive comments\(or ‘tropes’) as recorded on the messages? We have a right to know.
Paul – “We have a right to know.”
On that we can agree. I’m trying to keep an open mind until after it has been published and I’ve had the chance to read it.
Interesting: https://novaramedia.com/2020/04/17/labour-official-who-undermined-party-and-mocked-staff-was-in-running-for-general-secretary-under-starmer/
Looking at Oldknow and Ashworth I’d guess one of them got sick of being the man in the relationship.
Hard to believe one could be an honest socialist working for a Labour win while married to a Quisling traitor who was sabotaging the election behind his back – and he noticed nothing.
Ashworth should be triggered and neither of them should ever again be allowed anywhere near Labour – one is a traitor and the other is either a traitor or an imbecile or both.
Looking at Oldknow and Ashworth I’d guess one of them got sick of being the man in the relationship.
Well, one of them sounds like they still have the other’s fist up their arse, operating them like
Clue: It’s the one with as much axle grease on their barnet as their dear leader.
https://youtu.be/bYfBvhoN9SI?t=26
”Not gonna go for a drink with him again….Or am I?”
Godawful Orville duck sounding, whiny voiced, two-hat…And is still to best THE (joint**) worst health secretary in history. I’m just surprised he isn’t still wearing his school uniform of cap blazer, tie & shorts.
And people want me to pay to support THAT?
**hunt being the other.
Back when she was Ashworth’s girlfriend she was parachuted in ahead of a local candidate and stood as an MP. Labour lost the seat.
And this: https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/zelo-street-looks-at-the-labour-leaks-and-the-role-of-emilie-oldknow/
Lundiel thanks for that…maybe the defender of the knight Steve H should take a look at how shocking his broad church brigade especially old know has performed.in certain types of isms.Most shocking to me is why corbyn didnt realise he was in charge officially but not in “control” and put up with this sneering treacherous rabble..And yes I know its tough to be leader sorounded by a media that hated him,but the very least was a clearout.in his own HQ.and that would have been successful in having the support of the largest socialist party membership in Europe.Already the knight has realised that the membership have the natural power of funding and witchunts only make the redundancy of Labour mps draw nearer….and hopfuly the knight.
The whole thing is disgusting. I have been holding on to my membership but if somebody like Emily “pube head smelly cow”” Oldknow is reinstated then Labour is not the place for me. and I’m off.
Starmer and New Labour MK 2 are holding the door open for you to leave. Don’t oblige them!
I know what you mean Paul Smith but I am so sick of Starmer and the others- just look at them – parasites every one . When we did get a good man as leader they undermined him and attacked him at every turn. I am half way out the door already and if a nasty piece of work like Emily Oldknow is in then unfortunately I’ll be away..
I agree with you. You can do nothing, and all that you are doing is throwing your good money at something that is very, very bad.
I left in the time of Blair. When politicians do anything to achieve power, then that is something to worry about. As tonight’s Guardian story tells us, it’s all about power without a single principle. I have said this before, but I’ll repeat it – this man is positively dangerous!
JoeRobson I had a complete turn off politics because of Tony Blair too and the whitewashes that followed his disastrous and illegal invasion of Iraq which has cost an estimated million lives and which was the major cause of the rise of Isis .
I came back because of Jeremy Corbyn. I was a “returner” but like other returners I was called an entryist, scum, dog antisemite, Trot etc by the Blairites in the PLP.
Always remember Tony Blair said he would rather lose an election than win it on a Socialist platform. I truly believe he is pulling the strings now – he is an unhappy multi millionaire and wants to make a come back in politics. This will never happen – he is detested by most people both Tory and Labour and so is trying to controlthings from the shadows. Starmer is bad but Blair is worse and the real threat to democracy in our party.
Smartboy
More folk should be joining to allow them to vote in leadership election
Doug – I would be very surprised if ‘the left’ have the numbers to even mount a challenge against Starmer, besides owt else you have yet to find a leader to coalesce behind. There’s very little likelihood of a leadership election before the next GE. You should perhaps concentrate on something achievable like getting a Labour government into power that promises to implement PR. Once you’ve achieved that at least you’ll have some realistic options for the future. PR is the only way your ever going to start to build a ‘socialist’ party that actually has some MPs. Who knows, by the end of the decade your new ‘socialist’ party may even hold the balance of power.
I know that Doug and that’s one of the reasons why I haven’t resigned but I am getting more disgusted and fed up every day. Oldknow would be the last straw
The number of socialists who joined Labour for Corbyn tells a very different story. One for which there is actual evidence.
The near miss in 2017 despite massive sabotage by you lying “centrists” says your Tory propaganda about support for the left being tiny is complete self-delusion.
The question of whether or not there is support for the left can not be answered until there is actually a socialist party on the ballot paper – Labour is not that party.
Taking May’s majority away from her was achieved despite internal saboteurs, fierce opposition from the Tories, the whole of the MSM, a certain evil foreign power and the whole neoliberal world.
By the end of the decade the 1% will be unstoppable – it’s got to be now.
What’s so stupid is that you Tory-enabling lapdogs think the 0.001% will thank you for handing them the keys to the planet by permitting you some measure of wealth.
The truth is the prettiest and most subservient of your granddaughters MIGHT get to serve them drinks and fellatio on their megayachts.
It really is beyond delusional to imagine such people will reward you in perpetuity because you were once inadvertently useful a decade ago.
I hesitate to say it but there is one other way the question of support for the left might be answered – if enough of us strangle enough of you in your beds that would be an answer of sorts, wouldn’t it?
You do write some rubbish. A quick appraisal of Europe is enough to realise that the only type of PR ever going to be allowed will always return a centre right government.
It’s true that the left were always a minority which explains Corbyn’s failed attempts at appeasement and there is no one to lead the left now. That’s because Westminster is a career move for people with no political fire and unions have long been relegated to wage negotiators.
Personally I will do my damnedest to do to Labour what they did to us.
SteveH
I do admire your efforts
But from where I stand the sky is black with the wings of chickens coming home to roost
Your man is going to get fucked from every direction
He has to win every battle, we only have to win one and he’s gone
It’s NO surprise whatsoever to see wee steven STILL hankering after clegg’s PR.
How is it you have the chutzpah to claim to hold left tendencies, yet all your leaning and musings on here point irrefutably towards lib-dim policies at best, tory lite at worst?
I’m yet to hear a single idea of yours that’s remotely compatible with socialism. Just one.
I digress. Have you forgotten just by how massive a margin PR was (rightfully) binned in 2011?? ….But I guess that too, was ‘undemocratic’ wasn’t it?
Strange, that you don’t harp on as much about that as you do the brexit ref, but the EU’s dead now because keith’s shafted you good n proper on that, hasn’t he? He’s took a whole bunch of those swabs and rammed them right up you remainers because he’s reached his political zenith, and how he’s gone all ‘megalo’…
So you’ve gone back to PR as a distraction. Well you’ve already done that one, and we the electorate have neither forgotten the previous result, nor changed our minds.
Get your imbecilic head round the fact that the electorate is a not a product of your imagination and will not bend to your will. That goes for you and the the few like-minded imbeciles that the rest of the nation has to endure.
Lundiel is totally right. A PR voting system will only ever return a right-of centre government, something you, no doubt, aspire to – Hence your persistent championing of the worse-than-useless, utterly abortive stammer; someone to who whom merely reaching the vertiginous heights of mediocrity would be akin to a world cup win.
Toffee – Nick Clegg betrayed his own party’s policy on PR when he capitulated to the Tories and allowed them to put forward an half arsed system that was not PR. The majority of the electorate recognised this and like me rejected the poor substitute on offer.
Why do you think that PR is incompatible with socialism.?
You should perhaps ponder on the fact the Green’s got 2.7% of the national vote (plenty of support but well spread out) and got one seat whilst under PR they would have got up to 15 seats. If you really do want to set up a successful socialist party that actually has some MPs and influence you are on a hiding to nothing without PR.
Why would I went to emulate the Lexiteers who stupidly continue to obsess about the EU.
I have brought up PR on a number of occasions (on these pages). I support PR because it gives a fairer representation in parliament of the views of all the electorate. Unless you don’t believe in democracy how can you support FPTP which continually gives us Tory majority governments on a minority of the vote. History proves that FPTP is no friend of the Labour party.
You have to bear in mind that SteveH’s major malfunction is the same as Starmorrhoid’s – believing the Blairism that “elections can only be won from the centre.”
However true that may once have been, 2015 and 2017 showed a strong drift to the left.
More of the elderly have died of Covid than any other age group and that must have reduced the traditionally right-leaning bias of the electorate.
There is no natural law proving that new parties can’t succeed in elections – UKIP proved they can if they catch the popular imagination.
Jeremy nearly won when the Tories were doing better than they are today.
SteveH is full of shit.
All that…and still not even a murmur of a single idea/plan/wish that would be regarded as socialist.
Enuff said.
What a nasty piece of work Starmer and the establishment in this party are. Like the tories, the thirst for power overrides any sense of decency.
Slim possibility, I know, but has anyone seen the articles in The Guardian, by Jessica Elgot and Aditya Chakrabortty?
They’re reporting on some Focus Group Report to Starmer and – what passes for – the Labour Party, on where ‘the public’ want the Labour Party to go next.
Bit of a hollow laugh, for anyone that’s interested.
Remember to ‘dress smart’ on Remembrance Sunday – and so on, and so forth. Etc, etc, etc…
“Where the public want Labour to go next” ..?And no foul language please..!
Sing the national anthem and don’t eat a bacon sandwich.
lundiel – Good advice
Starmer will prove to be a disaster if he continues to think that the current rightwingers in charge will bring back lost Labour voters in the so called Red Wall seats by wrapping themselves in the Union flag. Labour lost because Labour voters knew that their party they usually backed had ratted on the Referendum result putting Jeremy Corbyn in an impossible position once he agreed to Starmer’s determined efforts to bring about that fateful decision. The undrerrmíning of Jeremy by Labour HQ just added to the scale of the defeat and the present purging of left wing members must be halted and reversed or the Labour Party will surely split as it did many years ago and it took until 1945 to get back to power to built the Welfare State.
There is no doubt Starmer ,Evans and the rest of the cuckoos in the nest think they have made a very smart move here, bringing back allies and no doubt causing more people on the Left to resign in disgust. It is all very well people saying comrades shouldn’t leave, but that pre-supposes that there is some mechanism for getting rid of the poisonous anti democratic Right, which consists of probably 2/3 of the PLP, many Councillors, and much of the party bureaucracy plus of course Starmer.
john – If only the previous leadership hadn’t abandoned his promises to democratise the party when he went behind the members backs to lumber us with ‘trigger ballots’. Was the vision of a members led party that we were presented with just a sound-bite.
Corbyn never tried to lead as a dictator despite having the popularity that would tempt a lesser man to take advantage of the obvious opportunity.
Starmorrhoid is that lesser man – he’s already acting as a dictator despite there being no hint of public demand.
The fact that the PLP was mostly “centrist” – and had been elected in the same way as himself – I imagine might have given Jeremy democratic qualms about riding a possibly transient wave of popularity to rid himself of opposition.
No such qualms for your choice of leader, clearly.
David – Excuses, excuses, excuses.
Have you ever heard the expression “empty vessels make the most noise”.
He would have been summarily dismissed by his MPs who were shitting themselves at the prospect of losing their comfortable, expenses paid junket.
lundiel – You really do need to brush up on your knowledge of the Labour party rule book (page 21)
They also thought they were above being accountable to the members and the electorate, much preferring to work for lobbyists, foreign governments, corporations and Tony Blair.
lundiel – On this occasion it was Jeremy that avoided any accountability to the membership by going behind their backs.
lundiel – I think you’ll find that it was the NEC, not Starmer, that reinstated Oldknow’s membership.
https://labourlist.org/2021/02/ex-officials-suspended-over-leaked-report-have-been-readmitted-to-labour/
My ranting on when I don’t know all the facts won’t achieve much will it, however if you want to dig back through the archives you’ll find that at the time of the report’s release that I expressed my anger about what had been exposed.
And you really need to shut your stupid gob. If 20% of Labour MPs nominate a willing candidate to stand against the leader, a leadership contest is triggered.
lundiel – I know, and then it would have been for the members to decide, a 3rd easy win for Corbyn.
SH….. Thats a little bit hypocritical isnt it davidh.Although I must say I think you earn your money for having the brass neck to change your tune to support the current regime..What are you going to do when he “leggs” it..?
Joseph – I joined a political party, not a religious cult worshipping a deity.
Over to one of our more familiar posters whos sick “dont you know it shill” and “your reply was 2.Point five minutes on the richter scale you shill.!” and you know it “……Steve maybe a little more worshipping in the mystical sense might “cleanse your soul” instead of the entitlement worship.
Joseph – Maybe you ought to have given your reply a little more thought.
I attribute the perfectly commonplace quality of simple human decency to Corbyn and you, SteveH, call it “a religious cult worshipping a deity.”
Your values are seriously fucked up if you can’t tell the difference between common decency and the lack of it.
Your values are seriously fucked up if you give greater importance to the gaining and retaining of power than to the good works power can accomplish.
Your values are even more seriously fucked up if you value the life of one exploiter above the deaths of a million of the exploited – decisions the 1%, Tories and those who call themselves “pragmatists” and “centrists” make with barely a thought – the sad but inevitable consequences of capitalism – just one of those things, nobody’s fault really.
The really seriously fucked up like you and Starmorrhoid abhor even the concept of personal values, preferring “democracy” – being the means by which others do the dirty work, absolving you of all but peripheral and widely-spread association with the crime.
Democracy to you fuck ups is just a way to shirk any personal responsibility to behave with basic, common human decency.
Good grief, Steve H, you don’t half come out with some rubbish(for want of a better word). Don’t you ever tire of, trying to wind people up.
I assume that’s what you’re doing, as I can’t believe anyone could believe some of the nonsense you post on here.
And just to be accurate on the Bimboesque issues Steve H.I am not the one who chooses hair brushed photos of Old knowa,Rayner,and leaves the knight looking like a long term alcoholic subjected to rough sleeping and dragged through a hedge backwards….but then again?
Joseph – What has that got to do with me?
Your the one branding Joe a misogynist are you not? You also are the one defending traitors like old know and her like.
I am the eye in the sky
Looking at you
I can read your mind
I am the maker of rules
Dealing with fools
I can cheat you blind
And I don’t need to see anymore
To know that
I can read your mind, I can read your mind
spiderrider – Thanks for your contribution but I am none the wiser about how I can be held responsible for the editorial content of this page. Your so called explanation makes no sense whatsoever.
When you’ve managed to get over yourself perhaps you could point out where I have ever supported Oldknow. I am not objecting to Joseph being critical of her, just the sexist manner in which he has done so.
More to the point, you follow your usual course of action by not criticising her appalling behaviour and behind the scenes manipulation. Nor do you criticise Starmer for rehiring her. Nor do you criticise Starmer for using ref2 to terminally damage Corbyn and then throw remain supporters under a bus by then backing leave and not promising another referendum.
Lundiel, the moron’s too infatuated with the oleaginous one to understand when he’s being/been played like a cheap fiddle.
The type that’d walk into a boozer or shop with a massive dogturd in both hands and say: ‘Look! Aren’t I lucky I never trod in that?’
Exactly the type stammer relies upon.
Toffee – What on earth made you do that, did you have your hand sanitiser with you.
SteveH: “I think you’ll find that it was the NEC, not Starmer, that reinstated Oldknow’s membership.”
Now would that have been the newly socialism-free, 100% pure Tory NEC?
Or the earlier version before the last shred of honesty was eradicated forever and neoliberalism declared ‘safe in our hands’?
No, don’t tell me, let me guess…