If MPs have to spread out for more than a kilometre to stay safe for a vote, how can the Tories claim it’s safe for our kids to be cooped up in classrooms?
Labour’s Barry Gardiner has published a video of his walk along the more than one kilometre route taken by MPs in order to vote, now that the government has abolished the temporary electronic voting system Parliament had adopted because of the coronavirus.
Gardiner gives an idea of the nonsense of the manual voting system, which meant MPs shuffling in line for hours to cast their vote – ironically on the government’s plan to end electronic voting.
But if these ridiculous measures are necessary to protect MPs from infection, then how can the government claim its safe for children to start to return to school?
Especially when the latest study by leading virologists of infections among children shows that they carry the same viral load as adults and are no less likely to either contract or transmit the infection – and the government’s own scientists say sending children back to school will drive up infection rates.
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How about an MP showing and sharing videos of the jam packed public transport that the low waged and vulnerable public have had to use since the start of lock down? Until they do – I have no sympathy for any of them.
I think he is pointing out the futility of the new voting system opposed to on line voting, it is an absolute farce, You are correct though, the whole covid19 response from the government including work, School and public transport has been spectacularly ham fisted and dangerous,
I’m told you in Uk will all have to wear masks when travelling on public transport from 21st June. I suppose this is avoid the never ending waves that have been predicted.
Or is it the 15th June?
“you in UK” – presumably you live in some other Shangri-La.
On your other points about the 1% taking the opportunity to buy everything they can at fire sale prices I’ve made the same points myself.
Doesn’t mean they released the virus or planned anything.
Buying in bad times is page one paragraph one in “How To Get Rich At Everyone Else’s Expense.”
You don’t need a virus to crash economies.
I live in Ireland and have said so before. If you don’t recall or didn’t notice too bad, I have made no secret of it. I am an ex pat but still a British citizen.
“Doesn’t mean they released the virus or planned anything.
Buying in bad times is page one paragraph one in “How To Get Rich At Everyone Else’s Expense.”
You don’t need a virus to crash economies.”
So, are you implying that’s what I said? No you need Gov actions, in this case, to crash economies with the full support of the so called ‘left’.
“how can the Tories claim it’s safe for our kids to be cooped up in classrooms?”
Quite easily – by looking at the real data instead of lying in bed having nightmares.
Why this campaign *against* children on SB? Actually, schools have been open for non-distanced groups of children all through the last tew months, and the dire effects for children and families currently excluded from a normal social life are easy to see if you have contact with them outside the splendid self-isolation of the disproportionately fearful.
See :
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-death-data-in-england-update-3rd-june/
– which graphically shows the number of deaths for those aged 0-19 are *invisible* (in single figures) on the age-related graphs with the same y-scale.
In general, whatever the history, the mental and physical health effects of lock-up are now much more severe than that from any viral infection. As the eminently sane CEBM has commented after consistently following evidence rather than fiction :
“Lockdown must be lifted in short order, simply because there is no alternative.”
Something I realized this morning when twitter showed McCann headline on the side… we have full spectrum distraction going on. Covid, race, bright objects in the sky and asteroids skimming earth, now McCann is thrown into the mix, my sister has noticed this as well and wonders when there will be a sighting of Nessie.
Not a peep about the billionaires, millionaires increasing their wealth by millions and billions, share buy backs inflating stock markets, central banking power grab, monopolists having wet dreams and vulture capitalists drooling at the prospects of all the assets they will soon be able to buy at rock bottom prices as SMEs go to the wall.
Who cares about the millions thrown out of work or losing their businesses and the public debt being increased by a billion+ a day. How do LP think this will be paid off with backing/corporate tools in power and ‘opposition’? Oh the rich will pay with their tax haven structures and tax ‘reducing’ schemes… oh fgs wake up… your children and grandchildren will pay.
This London cabbie knows we are being distracted but doesn’t know why. I posit the (mostly Rentier) powerful forces are consolidating their wealth, income streams and power in their own interests.
https://twitter.com/BreesAnna/status/1267929710656454662
Lol. I’m apparently ‘”insane”, “a eugenicist” a Johnson regime supporter…. Go for it Swarkie commentators, surely there is more you can diagnose, read more about and insult me from your arm chairs. Even the constantly insulted and maligned RH, Steve H et al haven’t garnered such heights of insult, slander, hate and misunderstanding.
I seem to have touched a very raw nerve in a world of leftist cognitive dissonance.
Oh, and I’m apparently “simple”.
Signs of the apocalypse you think? A neoliberal final solution?
Not accusing anyone in particular but there are those here claiming CV-19 is a global conspiracy to crush us into submission – this despite the Tories being excoriated by more and more of their natural base day by day and BloJob’s popularity dropping like a stone.
Anyone would have to be trashed on coke for weeks on end to imagine such a conspiracy could work – and, given that they already had power, why would the world’s neoliberal 1% risk being burned alive in their beds by the rest of us for a bit more money and a bit more power?
When they already have nearly all of both?
Makes no sense.
Whether you were replying to me or RH my reply stands. Oh dear indeed! There are insults I for one refuse to let go and calling someone insane because you don’t agree with their views is one I find despicable.
you are insane ! simple … no other words for it , you are in fact backing the Tory herd immunity discredited ideology prescribed by Cummings eugenicists …. The forthcoming second and third waves ( by winter time ) will have a far more significant effect on numbers than your plea over mental or physical health effects..
I hope I am wrong as that would mean more people live
Oh dear.
Maria if you are referring to my comment it was directed at RH and his continued stance of denial of the facts , this new layout of SB is not clear as to whom is being replied to . Oh Dear indeed isn’t it dear ?
…………& there will be no 2nd Wave, nor any ‘spikes’ in curves & when we wake up in the morning we will realise that it has all been a bad dream.
Lockdown? There has been no Lockdown. Planes spread Covid 19 world-wide & now MSM provides a platform for wealthy entrepeneurs to demand ‘no quarantine’ for travellers by plane because it might harm the travel & holiday industries.
It seems that some believe that only the strong must survive & herd immunity/culling must run its course naturally. Elimination of the old & vulnerable is a price worth paying , because “it’s the economy stupid” & younger generations are immune to the virus. Time to leave new born babies on hillsides to ensure that only the strong survive……..& abolish the NHS because medical care interferes with nature & only protects the weak & vulnerable. Spartan logic in a civilised world?
RH: “the mental and physical health effects of lock-up are now much more severe than that from any viral infection.”
So you prefer death to quarantine.
Whatever you say, RH, I’ll be round tomorrow with the scythe.
Rh, it seems I have assumed the vitriol was directed at me when in robs case it was directed at you. I think you struck a major nerve pointing out this sentence:-
“In general, whatever the history, the mental and physical health effects of lock-up are now much more severe than that from any viral infection.”
I am disgusted at the shit that has been thrown at you on this site on this issue in particular.
Gardner seems a bit confused about Covid lethality and ability to spread. I had no idea viruses had evolved to be able to choose in which situations to jump from human to human.
https://twitter.com/BarryGardiner/status/1268209372074819585
He should be isolating, especially from his family, for 2 weeks shouldn’t he?
I have it on good authority that Keir Starmer got his Knighthood from David Cameron. Signed M
I raise you one Tshala Muana. (starts slow, but just wait. 🙂 )
Maria,
Yes, you are simple. Not least because you voted for the utterly out of his depth Johnson, who leads up the most incompetent government the uk have had in living memory !
Now people claim to know who I voted for and are completely wrong in fact. Anyone read the cards and want a go?
I just e-mailed Ian Lavery with these policy proposals for Angela Rayner: Education – a Baccalaureate with Dr Kelly’s work it is ready to implement.
Cows – we need re-stocking so we can eventually export meat again
Hospices – we need many new ones with designed to include visitor’s accommodation
Universal Basic Income
Cannabis and only cannabis – all sellers need to register with the police
Palestine/Israel – Co-operation and investment
Palestine…….one state solution called Palestine, where Arab & Jew live as equals.
Hospices & Care Homes all part of NHS. Staff receive better conditions of employment & PPE. Good Socialism Starmer.
Maria, when you challenge the people who swallowed the idea that the Covid -19 is the 21st century answer to the black death, despite numerous posters demonstrating factually from a very wide range of sources not beholden to B&MGF, the international pharmaceuticals corporations or indirectly benefiting from it by producing equipment for it that it is a fallacy. It becomes strikingly apparent how powerful propagandists can distort reality .
It’s an almost impossible task to demonstrate that fear, hysteria and panic generated by the MSM, the State Broadcaster and the plethora of skewed data wheeled out by the compromised ” experts” is a distortion . It will not shake that faith in them regardless of their past record ie previous pandemics which never materialized but made billions for the vaccine manufacturers or the lies trotted out over WMD from the very same media outlets by the very same people who pushed the narrative.
They totally wash from their memories any view that they were manipulated. It’s to painful for them to admit they have been deceived hence why they need to lash out at anyone who challenges the dogma.
” It’s to painful for them to admit they have been deceived hence why they need to lash out at anyone who challenges the dogma.”
I don’t think that is the nerve I have touched brianbotou. I don’t believe there is an iota of realization media, social media, state, establishment even military (77th brigade deployment) manipulation is going on. It’s like being in the twilight zone on here so deep is the belief in the ‘new religion’ as Clark puts it. It could be as simple as I am a non believer for seeing things differently and questioning. I am the equivalent of a heretic and must be scorned and driven out.
Unfortunately, they cannot confront the reality much in the same way that many bought into the lie about Jeremy Corbyn being a racist despite over 40 years of evidence to dispute this or the belief that Sun revolved the Earth and Galileo was threatened with death if he continued with confronting the official narrative. Chomsky it put into perspective “ vigorous debate is around narrow confines but not outside of it”. You, I, RH and others are venturing outside the “ narrow confines” hence why you will rarely see a balance of views being offered by the “ organs of truth” or the true believers willing to face factual discourse without descending into ad hominem very rapidly!
I am not sure saying I am insane is an ad hominem, it;s a diagnosis from some random self anointed psychiatrist. Others are claiming to know things I have done and extrapolate fairy stories from their interpretations of my comment.
I think this is a stage on from ad hominem.
Metaphorical stoning is closer.
It was Jeremy Corbyn who contacted Sally Clift a Knighthood if she would fail me and she did.
The Queen was quite happy about it until I started seeing things about Her that made me quite disgusted especially her courtesans like Jane Alexander and her ensigns who love war and Jan Viroslav, Yugoslav War Criminal who ruled the Bath Tory Party and MI5 for years.
Now I am M. And M.K that is S.A.A.
Intelligence.
Sally does not know it but she was offered a poison apple.
Bruce Party Saunders
M
Bioman, is there anyone you trust that you can call and talk it through?
Maria, to say someone is “ insane “ can be compared to the innumerable colloquialisms following the same track eg a screw loose, off the rocker, doo alley, head the ball, numpty and so on. They are all used in the same context to avoid debate just in the same the truth seekers use terms such as “ insane” or “ conspiracy theory “ tin foil “ etc. Better than being burnt at the stake as the dissenters from centuries ago faced when challenging the propaganda ideology of the time !
“Better than being burnt at the stake as the dissenters from centuries ago faced when challenging the propaganda ideology of the time !”
Agreed but we are rapidly moving into a modern version of ‘burn the witch’ mentality and with new imposed restrictions, how long before people who refuse to wear masks are physically attacked? Public are already snitching on neighbours and admonishing or verbally abusing passers by who don’t conform to their ‘rules’. I make the comparison to make a point how far down that road Skwawkie society appears to have gone. Saying it’s better than the real thing is no comfort to me the speed things are moving.
The only light in the tunnel I see is at least there is an acknowledgement protest rights must be maintained and executed.
I am making an analogy of where we are and where it can lead. However, we have been here before over a very very long period of history. Eg during the “ reds under the bed” , the “ Cold War “ and the enemy within . Any attempt to see the “ reds “ point of view in this new “ two minutes of hate” campaign was met with a very similar frenzied hysteria whipped up by the usual suspects as you can see today.There is nothing new under the sun it’s just repacked in a different format. Always the stoking of fear and alienating any dissident voices !
It turns out rob the resident self anointed psych was talking to RH not me when he prescribed insanity from his consulting couch at home.
Everything I have said still applies, though of course it is RH that struck a nerve not me. Stooping to using the term insane is not acceptable especially aimed at someone because you don’t agree with them.
Protest rights, yes – the right to spread disease intentionally or recklessly as a ‘protest’, no.
States have used enforcement to prevent the spread of disease since the 14th. century as everyone knows.
If you plan to refuse to wear a mask if and when wearing them is mandated by law, that would be equivalent to swimming to shore from a quarantined ship.
I hope if you do you’re prosecuted for it.
The sick were the ones quaranteened historically, not the healthy.
Oh and if I was in the UK I would be exempt from wearing a mask.
No, the potential spreaders of disease were quarantined – just like today.
We’re all potential spreaders of CV.
McNiven writes:-
“No, the potential spreaders of disease were quarantined – just like today.
We’re all potential spreaders of CV.”
Ah, at last I see the ‘logic’ of staying locked up forever or until a vaccine. All humans spread human transmittable diseases so humans must stay apart from now on because in 21C humans have no immune systems and need injections developed by other humans to ensure they never get sick again …from that particular viral mutation. Of course you will be forced to take this vaccine and you will be forced to prove you have had it to go to work, receive welfare etc. etc.
Shame there is still no vaccine to the corona virus common colds or other Covid strains… still I’m sure a ‘cure’ will be available soon and freedom from virus terror will be upon you all. Shame many rights and freedoms will have been given away in the meantime and there will be a raft of medical hoops linked to proof of identity you will have to jump to be declared a ‘good and proper’ citizen, apols, subject..
I’ve been consulting my crystal ball and am sure you approve of and are comforted by what I see for your future. No more Covid-19 and everyone wrapped up in Covid-19 free cotton wool dystopia.
“rights and freedoms will have been given away” – except the Coronavirus Act was time limited to two years with 6-monthly reviews.
If they abuse it to oppress us, THAT’S the time to burn their fucking houses down.
As of now they have the consent of the people.
Why would you be exempt, Maria?
Breathing problems and disabled. I understand these are on the list of exemptions.
Don’t let that stop anyone insulting me or hoping I get arrested for not wearing a mask. The disabled label is newly bestowed on mean haven’t learned I’m now supposed to keep quiet while what rights I have are glibly given away by a bunch of healthy people at low risk from Covid.
If you’re exempted you’re not “refusing” – your previous comment clearly supported militant refusenik superspreaders.
Are you now weaselling out of that position?
No I am not ‘weaselling out” of defending individuals right to choose especially when there is no evidence masks are effective and if home made, used again and again for long periods are actually dirty, microbe breeding grounds. Masks have a use in a clinical setting and like gloves have a strict code of use which involves frequent changes.
In this case they are of no use except as a symbol of compliance with the incoming totalitarian system.
Masks are effective if used with intelligence. I have four simple unvalved dust masks from years ago. I’ve added an internal pad of cotton wool held in place with another, finer filter and I’ve improved the fixing arrangements.
The claim often heard is that they’re of no use once they’re moist from breathing, but that’s not my experience.
Breath-moistened fabric holds on to ‘moist’ particles better than dry cloth, which I’ve proved to myself countless times spraying paint – the measure is how much colour is on the inside of the mask and around your mouth and nose when you’re done.
If anyone thinks exhaled droplets containing virus are smaller than thinned solvent based paint, I’d only say that old-fashioned cellulose paint overspray can remain suspended in still air for half an hour.
Because these masks are not washable I fume them heavily in a metal box with 75% isopropyl alcohol after each use, bag them, mark the date on the bag and don’t re-use them for a week. I only go out a couple of times a week anyway.
Everybody is capable of doing that.
Something I’m trying but have less confidence in – when I leave the supermarket or any enclosed space where there are other people I use alcohol sanitiser on my hands but I also inhale the fumes for a couple of deep breaths.
I often experiment on myself – not suggesting anyone should copy me.
I’ve survived lots of industrial hazards including being half-drowned in trichloroethylene before it was banned and I’m still here at almost 70 – so I figure I’m ahead of the game if I die tomorrow 🙂
Maria this is a comment for you , you have a chip the size of mount ZION on your shoulder and you use your purported disability as a weapon ( low and cheap tactic ) . You pick a fight with people , me , when they have not even , ( as you miss read the structure of this new SB comment system ) seem to think have insulted you .Rather than taking the correction in good faith as I have explained to you , have simply compounded your error with a somewhat immature continuation of that verbose attack .
My retort stands regarding RHs comment , and is based upon RHs continued and , as far as I am concerned , dismissal of the facts of 60,000 excess CV 19 deaths as some sort of GOvt cover up hysteria plan to subjugate and remove long standing rights from the UK population . My “beef” as I have pointed out to RH on many occasions is this callous disregard for human life as it appears , in order to attack those of us whom wish to continue to take and agree with the imposition of protective measures against the spread of the disease . This is not imo hysteria !
Now I am sure RH is more than capable of his own response to me and his stance on this issue imo is insane . As a relativity new commentator here you will be unaware that in some cases and issues I have agreed with RH and others , with whom I have had strong previous disagreements over many other topics of discussion .
Should people be attacked for whatever reason then there is the rule of law in this country for assault and I do not understand your fearful crescendo over wearing a mask to protect others. I assume you wouldn’t want to spread the disease further , but from your latest comment re masks I can only assume you do ?
My comment to you re RH stands and comments you call chips also stand. I will concede I lost the plot a bit, frustration at the ‘left’ wanting to be saved by the state, tracked, traced, injected etc. and recieve handouts is really getting me down. As to using my problems as a weapon, I answered a question, if you saw that as a weapon, that’s your interpretation.
It is rather ironic that those of us deemed at high risk from Covid-19 are the ones trying to see and point out a bigger picture of where these Covid control measures may well lead and arguing to resist loss of freedoms and rights. Hey ho such is the world I thought i wouldn’t live to see that is now becoming reality before my eyes.
I would appreciate it if you would desist from your remote quasi psych diagnosing though.
Point taken and a similar request from myself to you Maria .
“Point taken and a similar request from myself to you Maria .”
I will endeavour to keep my frustrations under control and take special care to study the reply system before making it about me. I still object to same tactics being used against others, I do make an effort not to engage in what is termed ad hominem anyway but will try and remain calm.
Maria , and I likewise will endeavour to do the same . I am sure that outside the bounds of this blog debating hot house where passions and beliefs run high , most of us want the same , a decent fair and just society and the real enemy is was and always will be the capitalists / neoliberal/ conservatives that seek to keep us all in our place and their obscene power ( in Johnsons / Cummings cases actual life and death decisions meted out ) , intact
Your final paragraph is a red herring. Oxford vaccine testing has had to move to Brazil due to lack of cases in UK. Just as Covid is declining restrictions are being ramped up.
https://twitter.com/InProportion2/status/1268698573664915458
If you and Mcniven can face it perhaps also have a scroll down main twitter feed of this account that inhabits a different world to yours.
Masks are not safe in the hands of any person not properly trained in their use. I was trained in the NHS I cringe daily watching people constantly touching them, screwing them up and stuffing them in their cars or pockets. You put them on to protect other people from yourself by and large. Taking them off single handedly and disposing of them in a foot operated disposal bin that you expect in a clinical setting. followed by hand washing. I use a builders mask when I. am sanding wood … a completely different situation and also, useful in a sandstorm.
Norma, that argument, while it has merit, you’ll agree has been used by the Tories as an excuse for the shortage of masks.
Tell me the training took longer than half a day and I’ll concede the point – until then I’m going to continue believing that whoever trained you could equally well train millions with a YouTube video.
If that was done would it satisfy your concerns?
The view from the pub landlord didn’t impress.
Neither does the kind of thinking that claims belief = proof – like the BoD asserts that if enough people think Corbyn is an antisemite then he must be an antisemite.
I seriously don’t care how many people share your delusion Maria – a majority believed Boris Johnson would be a better PM than Jeremy Corbyn.
Get my point?
I get very little about you McNiven except your tunnel vision.