‘Car crash’ as SAGE professor struggles to give a coherent answer, let alone a meaningful one, to questions about coronavirus strategy
‘Herd immunity’ is the government’s plan to allow the coronavirus to spread through the population until, in theory, it can’t spread any longer because too many people are immune. It was superficially abandoned after the government was told it would cost hundreds of thousands of UK lives – but in reality it was simply ‘rebranded‘.
Here Professor John Edmunds, one of the government’s key experts on its ‘SAGE’ committee, responds to – as opposed to ‘answers’ – Cathy Newman’s question about the strategy on Channel 4 News:
Be afraid.
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Sage Professor claims he had fingers crossed when explaining ‘Herd Immunity’.
they could not believe how easy it was to control the sheeple to be so obedient > now they know they will continue …1984
Yes Terry, the billionaire-elite is incapable of resisting the opportunities to Command and Control which the coronavirus pandemic and a ompliant populace afford them.
BUT lets remember the two people, two former Home Secretaries, who ensured their centrist Governments made this possible/inevitable.
They are Theresa May and, shamefully, Yvette Cooper, the women who made the British populace the most surveilled and managed on the planet with their Mass (indiscriminate) Surveillance legislation.
This May- and Cooper-enabled Centrism to gift the entire UK infrastructure and people (its Many) to the globalist billionaire Few.
Herd immunity is not a policy it is a bi – product of doing the right things at the right time, in reality because a vaccine is unlikely to be found any time soon if at all, then every other measure needs to be taken to protect the small number of people threatened by Covid19
Longer term herd immunity will kick in and make it less risky for vulnerable to get out of isolation, but nothing in this sad world is 100%
Herd immunity is totally dependent on the human body developing anti-bodies, throughout the population, that are effective for a reasonable time. I’m not aware that this has been proven as yet.
itsmespeakingtoyou
No one has caught it twice, unless evidence to contrary it’s safe to assume you have the golden ticket and can go for a pint or visit vulnerable family and friends
We forget millions of antigen tests have been binned and we are still waiting for a reliable test to confirm immunity
Evidence is clear it mainly affects those with underlying conditions, for vast majority you would not know you have had it, it’s been here since November/ December so any adverse effects would have been picked up by now
Most of our problems with Covid19 are self inflicted
In Feb/early March, there was no scientific evidence that anyone would develope immunity after being infected with this virus, and yet the government was formulating it’s statergy on this and was prepared to take a massive gamble with our lives! Still today, (a recent annoucement) the only immunity announced by the WHO a few weeks back is that there is evidence that you can’t get the virus twice, so they are saying you would develope some immunity if you recovered, HOWEVER, it has been stressed that there is no evidence any one will develope lasting immunity (for more than a year or so). So that leads to the possibility of all of u,s including those who contracted the virus to date will be in danger later on in further outbreaks as we age.
Hopefully, they will find out that this is not the case, but since our government doesnt and didn’t have evidence that herd immunity could be achieved , it was highly reckless to base their stratergy on unfounded ‘science’.
What’s disturbing also is that none of their scientists seems to have pointed this out to the government? Sack the lot on Sage I say. This has echos of the 90s Tory handling of the ‘mad cow desease’ where the government scientific advisors were taking advice from the government and selecting the science they presented. The government continued to assert beef was safe to eat, and encouraged people to eat it.
Having seen Professor John Edmunds in more recent interviews it’s clear (yes, the most overused word in politics) that he has been told to watch what he says, or just lie blatantly as the cabinet do.
In any event he appears to be a changed man. This could equally be because he knows the government will eventually turn on the science advisors & hang them out to dry (or die). He’s been practising in front of a mirror “I was only taking orders”. Head em up, move em out.
Like they did with Dr. David Nutt’s report on the effects of smoking cannabis. He concluded that cannabis was far safer than even alcohol and this wasn’t the result they wanted to hear, so they sacked him.
When he looks to the sky, is he looking and praying for guidance as to how he gets out of the hole the governments has put him in? Science guided by political dogma never works.
The scientists on Sage want the advice published
If you are looking for your John Gummer moment then go with how many Tory ministers are sending there children back on 1st June when its plainly not safe yet
“Watch and be afraid”
… says a PR man for the government … who hasn’t quite caught up with the latest requirement of getting the populace back down Panic Hill..
FFS “‘Herd immunity’” isn’t “the government’s plan” – it’s a phenomenon that does or doesn’t happen to different degrees in the lifetime of a virus. It’s what vaccines aim at. ‘Population immunity’ is a better term.
Given that a vaccine on best estimates is 12-18 months away – if *ever*, what is Dr Skwawkbox’s plan for resuming normal service? Or is ‘socialism’ now devoted to increasing social isolation and impoverishment in perpetuity?
Perhaps you might like to look at this video, because whilst the government is bailing out the likes of Easy Jet, they ignore the plight of ordinary people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB0bkytOdNQ
Surely the ‘left’ has a plan though. Stay locked up with your children until a new messiah comes with a miracle cure in a syringe that Gov (that’s you) has to indemnify against damages.
I have no idea how the ‘left’ thinks it can make political capital out of this situation when Tories will be the face of Gov for the foreseeable.
Has anybody thought of asking the Cabinet and cronies if their kids are going back to school..If they are, which schools?…State schools?..
For anyone not already too infected by the Panic! virus, here’s advanced calming vaccination :
https://youtu.be/uk2YZfnsOPg
It goes without saying, that if you isolate the virus it will eventually die out, but if one person has the virus they can transmit that further. So just as we gain from isolation and before it has been completely eradicated, business interests tell us its ok to go back to normal. I call that playing Russian Roulette with peoples lives.
“I call that playing Russian Roulette”
No. It’s just a fact of life (and death) – you can’t simply isolate from everyday risks, and thinking that you can shut down society until any virus just goes away is La La Land. Which is why we’ve never done it. Such a decreasing of immunity will probably prolong its life.
It’s apparent why you won’t see this type of informative program with recognized independent experts in the applicable medical fields on the State Broadcaster or in the MSM. The key message at the end about the difference between this and the other epidemics is fear and fear will be the killer which the hysteria and hype emanating from the propaganda outlets or the vested interests groups won’t discuss or permit to be part of their control on the narrative.
It is unfortunate that doctors like this chap are being silenced for speaking out. Expect this video to be removed from YouTube for ‘spreading misinformation’, just like they did with the trailer for ‘Plandemic’, which was also interviews with microbiologists and doctors but went against the message of panic which governments are trying to push.
Here’s an Orange County, US practising Doctor speaking out. Many are being censored but many platforms and individuals are downloading, saving and sharing the videos and writings.
I doubt you’ll get any takers except those of us that have already watched this interview with Prof Karol Sikora in which his main point is ‘fear is more deadly than the virus’ with with I concur..
I try to look widely and even listened to this interview with right wing historian Starkey in which is thought provoking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S8Js-tEmlg&feature=emb_logo&fbclid=IwAR0NylptRqhclp8NDX7QKpp5BjDVJB8tUXR2HShNLdjggsIxivqbEwdMGlo
The so called ‘left’ is in an iron clad lockdown and vaccine bubble of its own and is fast becoming irrelevant to millions that aren’t on paid furlough or with guaranteed adequate incomes or considered key workers. The longer teachers unions advise not to go to school the sooner many will be redundant as online/home schooling becomes the norm. Of course the better off are the most motivated to home/online school,many of those scratching a living don’t have the time or energy. It’s clear to me the ‘left’ has become representative of uni educated (aka indoctrinated) better off sector of society. The left calls for handouts not empowerment of local owned self sufficiency, start ups and worker ownership… Socialism in UK seems to be going backwards in the digital age.
Crivvens! And he’s a professor? Just HOW do these ‘academics’ gain their ‘qualifications’? Do they get them in Christmas crackers these days?
A random bloke dragged in off the street – hell, even ‘dicky’ hayward – could’ve done (not much) better than THAT!
Herd immunity’s ‘just a thing’.
More feckin’ onion than SAGE; enough to bring a tear to yer eye at any rate, if he’s [allegedly] (one of) ‘the best’ we’ve got.
But … of course, despite his hesitant answers … he’s right : ‘herd’ immunity *is* just a ‘thing’ – a phenomenon, and prominent in the life of viruses.
He’s uncomfortable – but because he’s being asked questions about the politics (aka ‘the bollocks’) – way outside his comfort zone.
… and, as a further comment, this article shows up the obsessive weakness of so many ‘features’ here – pointless, and illustrating nothing of substance.
”He’s uncomfortable – but because he’s being asked questions about the politics (aka ‘the bollocks’) – way outside his comfort zone.”
Of course he’s ‘uncomfortable’ F complete FS. He’s being asked to explain himself spewing governmental shite previously. He knows people are getting wise to them, and he’s been complicit.
‘Herd immunity’s just a thing’ … Yes, in the exact same way as ‘Austerity’ is ‘just a thing’. In the exact same way as extrajudicial rendition and torture are ‘just things’.
If he had the bollocks in the first place he’d have said ‘NO’ to cumminge and the other rats. Instead he went along with them. Now people have got wise and his arse has gone before any meaningful investigation’s taken place.
Which just shows how morally defunct these people are.
This is why you cannot leave policy to professors. I’m still waiting for any academic or medic to justify the steps we have taken (and not taken like adequate ppe and testing) to get to where we are now. The desperate govt has just given £18.5M to produce a vaccine at Imp College London which is untested and probably will not work! This whole effort is unravelling and crippling the economy which always impacts on the lower paid and producing higher death rates in cancer, heart disease etc for years to come. Starmer should start to campaign to end lockdown and take Bojo apart in PMQs tomorrow.
Actually – that interview illustrates the wider point – the policy decisions *are*, by definition, political – and that’s why the guy looks uncomfortable.There is no such thing as ‘the’ Science to follow – there’s evidence and there’s analysis of it. In this case, the unknown was more prominent than the known Choosing the action that follows is a political act.
I can’t see Starmer sticking his neck out in any way at all – it’s much easier to bollock on about risks and government failure than to face the government with the key issues around lock-up. RLB as education shadow was absolutely hopeless over the way out of school closures. Symptomatic – we really didn’t have much to choose from.
‘This is why you cannot leave policy to professors.’
*Groans*
It WASN’T left to professors. Who else do we know was at those ‘SAGE’ (Fucking hell, if EVER there was a more inept acronym, then I’d like to see it.) meetings?
Someone who even twists the arms of spineless cabinet lickspittles; as well as lickspittles like these ‘academics’ who are also desperate to hold on to their highly paid, distinguished position(s)?
That’s right. Mr ‘hire & fire’ himself. Cummings. He says = You DO. You don’t = You’re out on your arse with NO lump sum, no perks, just your pension…And that’s yer lot.
And not one of them utters a peep. Not one.
There isn’t a single one of them there on merit, judging by their performances.
I dont know about Herd immunity,but my brothers died we have finally got permission for a limited number of family to attend and he was cremated in Bolton Lancashire yesterday.after being herded into a care home recently with a lot of very sick infected residents..This government must answer to the international courts for the murder of the elderly and vulnerable locked away to die a lonely horrible death.We are more than numbers or theorys in a Debate on the virus.Something was planned and executed in a cold and calculated way to destroy the lives of ordinary people and like Squawk box we must have called for a criminal investigation into the care catastrophe,MY brothers and sisters demand justice .Just one more brother to bury now,and waiting for permission.
I’m so sorry for your lose, without a doubt there has been mismanagement of this crisis, WHO have screamed test and trace and isolate, it wouldn’t have stopped people dying but it would have stopped so many, my friends is on his 3rd week in an induced coma on a ventilator, he’s a paramedic the ambulance service was not deemed frontline staff so not given PPE it’s well known that’s because it wasn’t available. The hell families are going through is…I just don’t have the words. I hope you do fight for justice there will be others who will want the same so together hopefully you might get some justice.
Again I’m really sorry 🙁 my love to your family.
I’m sorry for your loss Joseph
So sorry to hear it, Joe
can somebody post a link to the video. I can’t see it!
This any good? Opened in a new window
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1261241541064081408/pu/vid/640×360/wVs-bAS7fStjLM1W.mp4?tag=10
Thanks, that works.
Can’t believe the comments on here. Imagine if the advice for HIV was keep shagging away like Bonobos without condoms because this virus is going to be around for a while. Fuck sake people.
When you say be afraid, you mean be afraid, be VERY afraid. Where did they find this drongo? He sounds like Bojo on a good day!!
there’s an earlier C4 News interview with Prof Edmunds (back in March I guess) where he confidently talks about herd immunity as rather more than ‘a thing’. can anyone link to it?
How does this idiot get to be a Professor let alone on the Sage Committee. I can now see why they want to keep the membership of Sage secret.