Labour insiders are working to persuade Labour front-benchers Ian Lavery and Dawn Butler to announce as a left ‘dream ticket’ in the coming elections for the party’s leadership/deputy leadership election that will start in the new year.
Ex-miner Lavery’s working-class background, his firmness in standing up for the wishes of his leave-voting constituents and his tough image are seen as the best antidote to Labour’s losses in leave-voting ‘heartland’ towns.
Ms Butler’s no-nonsense approach has made her a favourite among Labour supporters and she will appeal to London and remain voters. Key Labour activists and insiders have identified the pair as the ‘ticket’ most likely to appeal across the country and worry the Establishment.
Lavery was approached to stand in 2015 but declined. One senior insider told the SKWAWKBOX:
Ian didn’t stand in 2015 and he’s very reluctant now, but if he can be persuaded to change his mind there are enough MPs behind him to meet the nomination requirement. There was a lot of pressure in 2015, but now it’s becoming overwhelming.
Neither he nor Dawn take any s*** – and as a team their appeal would be just what the movement needs.
The SKWAWKBOX understands that Dawn Butler’s nominations would also see her easily over the threshold.
If the plan put together behind the scenes by key Labour figures comes to fruition, the party’s left majority would have a clear ‘ticket’ to swing behind – and one that would allow the party to build toward victory in 2024.
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Thanks, but no thanks!
“Ian Lavery and Dawn Butler to announce as a left ‘dream ticket”
Best joke of the day.
Well its better for members & supporters to get leadership that actually represents them fighting the Tories tooth & nail, rather than win and get another Blair and Brown bringing in Tory polices without any resistance.
It’s worth recalling that even leaving aside Iraq Blair/Brown abolished the student grant, brought in tuition fees, cut access to welfare while smearing the poor as “scroungers, part of a culture of dependency”, began forcing up social housing rents to market levels, and casualised employment giving us the gig economy. Not only was there a massive redistribution of resources from lower income groups to the rich but public services were privatised, marketised and public service casualised.
When Cameron came to power he shrugged off criticism of his policies claiming to just be continuing a New Labour agenda. If this is winning at any cost who needs it?
I agree with you wholeheartedly Bernie. There can be no going back. Neither can we reward individuals who undermined Jeremy Corbyn and his socialist agenda by giving them the leadership of the party.
When the time comes I hope Jeremy will indicate who he want to follow him as leader. That is the person I will be voting for.
Definitely Bernie! Maybe we could list definitely NOTS. Eg obviously unsuitable DEPLORABLES like Starmer, Thornberry, the “Knife Jeremy in the front” spittle Phillips, a used Coyle, H Benn, Kinnock …any creature linked with failed rejected “PEOPLES VOTE” “CENTRIST MODERATES” … moderates except for lies about Weapons of Mass Destruction. Those are obviously unsuitable as the COUNTRY rejected ALL of them … too far up their CENTRAL holes UMMUNA, Swinson Smeeth SWINSON the lot‼️‼️‼️
Let them lose their G-D forsaken faces up their “moderate” holes with their folded CRUSHED people’s vote campbellend & blair. Oh!… did Luciana Berger LOSE in Hendon or Finchley??? Have been saying Hendon. Do forgive me.. no fuss, BERGER would have LOST anywhere… like ummuna smeeth swinson soubrey… all of them… Fundamentally, THEY are TOO FAR DOWN or UP their CENTRAL fundaments.
We must get candidates who see & VALUE TOTALLY , the vision of JEREMY CORBYN who retained his seat AGAIN with over THIRTY THOUSAND VOTES🌹🌹🌹
How many did you get Ummuna Central??? Swinson??? LIBDEMS??? Hello… HellO ooo??? Central LibDems …??? What have you won??? Tell Tory Bliar Mandelsonn & Arstair Campbellends… You need to celebrate your victory. You’ve shown what your victories look like. POLLARD JC language needed but we are too polite here😊😊😊
Ps when the IRAQ meddler skids all over the media again… that believes it is greater than Alexander the Great…, Tell it to go meddle with the TIG CUKS & LibDems. Go success Centrist UMMUNA & BERGER ( loser in Finchley or Hendon. Rejected by the honest people there. They were not taken in by her VILE LIES against Jeremy). Tell Bush’s Poodle to have a hiss at Pollard in the Jewish Chronicle this weekend. Nasty base wicked sickening uncouth response to Jeremy’s greeting. Pollard hisses for itself. Pollard is not representative of the decent people who SOUNDLY REJECTED THE REPELLANT BERGER in Finchley or Hendon.
One could use Pollard words, to tell him and his lying lot what to do with themselves and where to OFF to, but unlike him, we are very well brought up, here on Skwawkbox.org. … most of the time … well some of the time anyway
HAPPY EVERYTHING
🕎🕎🕎 🌲🌲🌲 😀😀😀
TRUE LABOUR FOREVER
🌹🌹🌹
I’m warming to your style signpost.
Well you must be the only one Paul, apart from his Mum!
It would be a very appealing ticket. I’d give it my 1st vote.
Worth chasing after for the first two comments alone
I do not want an election,but after the seal of approval from the resident moderate faction the here,.Real diversity of age and gender and the only true socialist mps on offer.I can only say I wish lavery was a bit younger but it looks like all the years of Tory rule have produced mainly 2nd rate Tory moderates amongst our treacherous PLP. Yes it truly could be a dream team Thanks Squawk box for your brave intrventions in showing the survival of the socialist Labour party.
Both would have to examine their backgrounds Lavery has a black cloud hanging over him that would be brought up time & time again he was cleared but that won’t make any difference to any hacks inc the BBC’s.
What about Johnson’s background. Please stop fearing the media.
Tell that to ‘White Flag Man’.
That’s what Emily Thornberry would say.
Media don’t care about Johnson’s background. Only a potential left Lab leader.
But we must not pander to them marty. WE must take on the media and not keep dancing to their tune. Jeremy won the leadership despite them AND two coups. We would have won again had he not caved in to the openly hostile losers. I cannot understand for the life of me, why after that his mission seemed to prioritise getting the little sh s on board. Very odd.
TRUMP also won despite hostile media here and across the pond. We need to learn, that we give them the power, beautifully packaged, gorgeously scented, PLUS bells and whistles on … oh , and a knife for Jess Phillips to “knife Jeremy in the front‼️‼️‼️”
When will we learn? When will we dump the constant fear and trembling? When will we get on the offensive? My heart sinks not at the nastiness of the media but at the enduring complaining about the media. Marty we are better than that. There is much to challenge their narrative of lies. Hiding and complaining is no good. That is how the AS slanders took root. Remember, Jeremy was elected AGAIN. Luciana Berger lost. Stick to straight facts. Don’t be browbeaten by any obnoxious media presenter. Knock them down with facts. We need to be as visible and heard as the crocked peddler of the same old same old.
Yes Marty, signpost and a few others live in the delusion that the left can win if only they didn’t dance to ‘their’ tune. I mean the very fact that signpost keeps repeating this endlessly should tell you all you need to know!
And just to be clear, signpost is referring to the A/S black propaganda op, and some 12,000 articles – ie propaganda lies and falsehoods and smears – during the past four years or so tells you all you need to know…… and it’s called blackmail, not dancing!
I mean how on earth do you ‘take them on’ when they totally control the MSM and the narrative and are of course totally hostile to the left.
How do you think that people arrived at believing, on average, that 34% of LP members had been reported for anti-semitism! Yes, Repetition, Repetition, Repetition, just like signpost and a few other personas do on here all the time!
Just like Jack T keeps repeating his infantile little platitude/label over and over again (the T stands for Troll, in case you hadn’t realised it folks!). THAT’s what propagandists do! Think ‘Red Ken’ and ‘Barmy Benn’ and ‘The Welsh Windbag’ etc!
Allan – I would have thought it was obvious to everyone that the MSN went through a scoping exercise when JC was elected leader to establish a point of weakness. They hit the jackpot when Labour failed to stamp on the anti-Semitism nonsense right from the start.
They betrayed a weakness and from that day onwards it was all downhill on the road to capitulation.
Fibro…Dont you get it?..The media and the establishment do not get to choose the Labour leader.They have won one election already and now we have a good recommendation from squawk box and fear from the moderate faction on here….The choice is obvious if you want the membership and the Labour party as we know it to survive.
Logically the choice won’t be obvious until the PLP have decided who we are allowed to vote for and we have seen, at the very least, a full prospectus from each of the candidates. It would be good if the Labour Party could run some proper debates between the candidates and make the video(s) available on YouTube.
Members should weigh-up the all the options carefully once they have considered all the available information. Jumping onto any passing left-wing bandwagon is not the way forward at this critical juncture in our party’s future.
Seen to many videos,its not star appeal just common sense the only socialists on offer.But then again thats not important to our moderate faction.
Lavery is the sort of Politician who inspires confidence. He doesn’t take shit from anybody. Ditto Butler. They’d get my vote.
RH keep digging your mask is slipping today!
Get real. We’ve just lost an election with a Party led by someone with the notable and radical credentials of Corbyn.
And you think that these two are the way forward?
I admit I have no answer to the leadership question myself, but if they’re the answer, I’m not sure what the question might be – apart from ‘What do you do when you’re desperate?’
Well first you don’t panic. Second you don’t swallow all the bullshit churned out by the media. Examine what really happen in the election.
1. Johnson was able to brand himself as new
2. Johnson’s campaign started 3 months before the GE
3. Nov polls predicted Labour would lose 80-120 seats.
4. Labour improved in the polls, losing 44 in the end – yes bad.
5. Remain vote didn’t turn up Lib Dems lost 45% of MPs
6. Labour won more votes than then Blair did when he won twice.
7. Cons only got 17% of the under 35 vote!!
8. The Northern areas who voted Johnson in 2015 did so again, no surprise there. But they didn’t in 2017 why?
9. Next election Brexit won’t be an issue in terms or IN or OUT
10. The effects of Brexit will.
We march on, the polices are sound but need trimming to make them more focused on what can be done in a 5 year term. For example just nationalise railways & water. Don’t talk about free stuff!! tell people the truth and explain why the state should pay thought taxation.
Dont make me think I’m in a parallel universe we lost 60 seats
✅✅✅🌹🌹🌹
✅✅✅🧿🧿🧿🌹🌹🌹 is to kickoff3pm
Agree with lots of that. LOVE the clarity! Repeat everyday every where.
” Cons only got 17% of the under 35 vote!!”
This is what to focus on – not the Tory- old fart voters who are dropping off the perch.
(The Remain vote did turn up – but actually too many stayed with the LiDems)
RH What do you do when desperate? Vote to survive and have a continuation of socialism. Rome wasn’t built in a day and look forward not backwards comrade.
Joseph OKEEFE 22/12/2019 at 1:30 am · · Reply →
“Rome wasn’t built in a day”
That’s one thing we can agree on, I’ve spent the last 4½ years religiously voting for the recommended ‘left slate’ candidates but I’ve yet to see any tangible difference in the outcomes from the NEC.
“a continuation of socialism”
The reality is that we have a continuation of rabid neoliberalism and domination of a plutocratic elite, not socialism.
I’m not much interested in gesturism. I’m interested in a practical change based on more than a vaguely defined word.
The structures of power have really shown their teeth in this election – and you’ll be hard pressed to find *any* consideration of this fact anywhere in the media that actually influences people. Its a massive problem.
My – admittedly acid – comments were not particularly aimed at this pair, but the notion of picking a leadership team on the same basis as picking favourite flavours of ice-cream.
There is a problem in the Party, going back to the hollowing out under Blair, and, as a consequence, leadership candidates are difficult to pick out. Only fakes with ulterior agendas will want to rush over this decision. I’d be happy for Corbyn and Co. to continue for a period whilst the fakes reveal themselves, and potential emerges.
I take my hat off to Corbyn – the man and his ideas. Few could have sustained the viciousness of the personal, lying attacks on him. As many have said – he is, indeed above all a decent human being. But, truth told, he was an accidental *leader* – not a natural one – or even developed for the role.
We have just proved starkly that the majority of Great British Public (and particularly the flaky, gormless body of swing voters) will complain like fuck about the lack of principle amongst politicians, and then vote for an unprincipled Party led by a politician notable only for his lack of principle and appeal to bar-stool duggies.
Labour has to find a leadership that can counter all that bias, appeal across the spectrum that is the Party,and look to the future. Certainly Lavery is not that.
… and Steve’s comments about ‘left slate’ candidates on the NEC do strike an uncomfortable truth.
How about a secret panel of say 3 selecting the Leader? That would avoid possibility of bolshy members trying to have their say. ’
RH 22/12/2019 at 11:26 am
I do wonder at times if the only thing I have actually achieved by voting for the recommended slate is to inadvertently contribute to the increasing of McCluskey & Lansmans’ power-base.
Well – as sure as eggs are what they are, nothing significant or fundamental has shifted.
Actually, my questioning of the ‘right/left’ knee-jerk description of political alignment is based on the fact that characters like McCluskey have massive likeness to the old right wing.
Who the hell are these labour insiders? Dawn butler showed nothing but contempt for our northern voters and pushing her proves labour have learnt nothing.. Try talking to labour outsiders like the members for a change .
Who are these key labour figures ? Not Starmer or mcdonnall by any chance? Both have lost all credibility and they still dont get it .
Starmer was the traitor in chief, and he did in full view of the public, by changing our brexit policy from one of respecting the referendum result, to one of renegotiating the deal and then saying he would campaign to remain. Starmer has always been after Jeremy’s job – he is a treacherous snake in the grass, who does NOT get my vote, and, in fact, I think he needs to cross the floor to join the Party where he really belongs – the Tories. As for John McDonnell, I wish he had Jeremy Corbyn’s charisma and ability to get people to come along with him, because when you put that together with John’s more ruthless attitudes, then I think we would have walked this election. However, I am still puzzled as to how Johnson could go from having a majority of minus 45, to having a majority of 80 seats, all based on only gaining an extra 380k votes and putting on 1% extra throughout the whole of Britain, since the 2017 election. It does not add up.
Such are the joys of FPTP. For far too long the Labour Party has clung onto the false perception that FPTP gives us an advantage.
It’s high time we put our weight behind PR.
The voting system is part of a wider agenda of much needed constitutional reform.
Again – the Blair governments have a lot to answer for in missing a golden opportunity from 1997 onwards to dish the biases in the system that ultimately always favour the Tories.
The debacle that we have just witnessed can, in fact be seen from many angles as the apotheosis of what happened during those years when Labour lost its direction – contrary to what the acolytes say.
“Starmer was the traitor in chief”
This is the sort of language that turns Labour into a joke from Tooting in the eyes of the wider public.
Like sound of this. Would be happy to stand alongside these two!
” Try talking to labour outsiders”
I do constantly – as distinguished from the conservative swing voters who get so much attention. Real Labour, by definition resent the idea that Labour voters in the north voted ‘Leave’ or can all be categorised in a ‘poor me’ lump.
They stayed voting Labour and are amazed at ageinjg duggies who voted for Tories on the basis of what they read in The SunMail..
“…the notable and radical credentials of Corbyn”.
I/m afraid JC flip-flopped on Brexit. That was his undoing. That and crap marketing by the GE team!
If you think Brexit was the answer, you’ve been asking the wrong question. The hard fact is that initially falling into the Tory trap was the mistake, not the later attempt at retrieval, which pulled back lost votes – even if not enough.
Best two candidates so far, a pair we trust on the left, but still holding out until the 7 Jan see who else from the left are nominated
Yes, best two so far, but as kickoff 3pm says below, let’s have Butler as leader and wait for Johnson to put his racist foot in it during a flustered PMQs! 😀
timfrom Excellent point …Butler as leader!
timfrom
Johnson knows exactly what he is doing every time he puts his racist foot in it and it appeals directly to his base
I voted Brexit but have nothing in common with Little Ingerlanders who want ‘No Deal’
Fuck em
Very interesting, very interesting indeed. 2 left and diverse heavyweights. Could appeal to diverse working people. After initial scratching at surface from the fog something interesting emerges. Wow a Labour working class Leader and Black Deputy. Suddenly feel cheered.
IL4Leader DP4Dep!
Just remember I said it first 🙂 Dawn as leader though please. First she’s Johnson’s worst nightmare across the hall at PMQs, second the media will find it harder to discredit her & 3rd she comes across as much more jolly in interviews. 4th is you need one, a woman!! 5th if you need one Bame for change!
An iron fist inside a velvet glove
My only criticism of JC and JMc was
Your a fucking anti semite and a racist
I’m sorry you feel that way
On any other planet Pantomime Dame Margaret Hodge would have been sacked on the spot
F’kin dead right!
Groundhog day. Roy Hattersley wants the PLP to have a veto power over who becomes party leader.
Well, why doesn’t he campaign to get a constitutional amendment through Conference to that effect? See where that gets him!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/21/we-fought-militant-in-the-1980s-far-left-hold-now-much-worse
Free market neoliberalism and AI/robotics together will soon make the absolute power of the 1% certain – what we’ve seen already would bring any society of thinking people to revolution.
Whatever diverts the electorate from seeing that fact buys the 1% the time to outflank democracy until it’s too late to stop them – so switch off ‘strictly’, fuckers.
A ‘broad church’ Labour party that accommodates ‘centrists’ and ‘moderates’ lets the Tories slither in unchallenged – it’s as ridiculous as prey thinking predator can be compromised with.
The left’s best option now is to leave Labour and let the right wing join the Tories where they clearly belong.
Fighting over the name Labour, however noble that might seem, would be a pointless distraction – let the fucktards keep it now they’ve brought undying shame on it.
By continuing to speak the truth the left will continue to be condemned until events prove us correct, hopefully before the world breathes its last.
Blairing-up to win elections is beneath me but apparently some here now feel differently.
By swallowing UKIP bullshit the ‘Labour heartlands’ have condemned everyone including themselves to possibly five years more suffering.
This might even have been the last chance to spread socialism and save the planet. Enjoy your brexit.
If Corbyn feels like forming a real socialist party I’m in and so is half my pension.
David – Last time this was tried it didn’t seem to work out too well for those on the far left who no longer felt at home in the Labour party. Most of them seem to have abandoned their failed pet project and have now rejoined the Labour party. Some of them pop up in these comment columns on quite a regular basis.
Well said, David!
That advice would seem to be a little bit premature David.Were a Starmer or similar already in place,then I would agree with you,but it seems to me the situation is still very fluid.I obviously have no knowledge of the manoeuvrings going on between the PLP and Union leaders and various factions on the NEC,so I will wait a bit longer before drawing the conclusion you have drawn.
Warning warning smear campaign on the loose The socialist Labour party have nothing to fear now ,lets clean house!
Good post, Skwawkbox! These two would get my vote.
There is immense media pressure on Labour this weekend to commit suicide by rejecting anything ‘Left’ of Centre. They describe it as the only way the Party can survive when in fact the very opposite is the truth.
There is, as usual on Skwawkbox, a frightening dearth of information here.
I know very little of the people being named as potential leaders and those commenting here seem little wiser.
I strongly favoured Angela Rayner, but she withdrew to back Rebecca Long-Bailey. Now the Skwawk insists that Lavery/Butler is the dream ticket. The Guardian meanwhile is blowing clouds of smoke to discredit all left candidates. If we on the left do not settle NOW, the right wing will sneak a candidate in under the radar.
I thought Ed Miliband weak but didn’t criticise him ONCE in public in 3 years!
Should have got over line in 2015 but 100 or so Right Wing Labour MPs slagging JC off in public for over a year probably cost us victory.
Right Wing Led Remainers and the politically niave Left forced the Conference change in 2019 and some of us on the Left warned not to respect the Leave result (with 400 Leave constituencies and 200 Remain) was electoral suicide but the majority would not listen.
At least we tried to make Labour policy at least credible to at least give us a chance but I felt in my heart we had lost the GE a year ago, it seems a significant number WANTED BREXIT, AND WHEN DID THEY WANT IT, NOW!
If we have had a Right Wing centrist Leader with a modest programme (crumbs for working people) I believe we would have ended up like PASOK in Greece with 80 seats.
The Right in Labour have a problem accepting democratic results: Leave, Jeremy’s Leadership result TWICE!
The manifesto was good but overlong, more is less and we needed a simple oft repeated message.
It is correct to support Justice for Waspi women but to suddenly announce a not costed £58b for this perhaps fed the narrative of how will you fund all this?
Perhaps we should have just said the Waspi women deserve justice and we will do what we can for then if we get in power.
So with the above changes, I argue elect a good left wing democratic socialist Leader and Deputy, and have left wing democratic socialist policies.
And perhaps Labour and trade unions in every CLP need to become like another Greek Party, Syrizia, and we offer political and practical support to the left behind including in Leave areas so we rebuild from below alongside the oppressed, and fight back from 2020 against probably this most right wing nationalist Neo-Liberal Tory Govt (who pretend to be one nation though they have kicked out most of the one nation Tory MPs) we have ever known.
Although the Tories have a big majority perhaps economically they are not in the strongest position as some Left economists argue, Neo-Liberalism is in structural decline.
The Tories have also spent £435b on the electronic printing of money (QE) since 2010 which as only kept the economy static as Streekt argues “To buy the rich and powerful time, because they haven’t a clue what to do” but Labour does with state-led public investment.
Solidarity!
Bazza
Spend your money in those areas where every penny is worth a pound,
As you quite rightly say from the bottom up
It was middle class WASPI women who were saying this money could be better spent elsewhere,
Compensate and end the misery of those who have suffered badly from this daylight robbery
You can also guarantee as soon as we announced it being means tested scumbag press and meja would call it the politics of envy
Agree 100% economy is close to the edge and it wont take much to tip it over
Quite agree. We need to know more about the potential candidates. I am aware of a potential issue with Dawn Butler as a candidate. She has adopted a very rigid position on the issue of self id and the not-to-be-challenged idea that “trans women are women”. An article in the MS this morning is worth reading:
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/magical-thinking-should-have-no-place-law
Butler has taken her position on this and will not engage in any debate. This worries me. We need politicians who are brave and will not run away from controversial subjects. I can’t help noticing the parallels with the claim that the Labour Party has become institutionally anti-semitic. It’s become such a toxic subject that nobody dare be seen to present evidence to the contrary let alone disgree. And similarly with the question of ‘is it possible to change sex?’ surely it’s not too much to ask that we have a genuine open and respectful public debate on this subject. The fact that there are well funded lobby groups determined to prevent the debate is a cause for concern. Dawn Butler has chosen her side which ironically – given her remit – may have negative implications for just over half the population. We’ll never know if there might be negative implications of gender self id, or therefore what we as a society might need to put in place to mitigate for them, if we’re not even allowed to talk about it!
Alison
Only met one person going through the change and to be honest we were all rat arsed at the time
What struck with me was the community was very protective and supportive, all I could see was someone who had a dream to be led down the aisle by her dad one day,
Beyond that I really have not got a Scooby
“ Labour insiders” is all I need to know. Fuck ‘em.
The crunch will come when the NEC announce who Members can vote for. The ‘choice’ may well see half the Membership walk away. That suits the Right of course, bugger winning elections, they’ll leave the Tories to run things while they squabble. Like social democrats across Europe Labour might simply disappear. Their Blairite ball room days are over.
We can see the Graun are pushing hard for a soft-left leader.
Articles on how the “youth” members want to move away from Corbynism – evidence is half a dozen people quoted, out of how many?
An article on how the left are demons and hell bent on destroying Labour, this from Rawnsley. Hattersley telling the PLP to do to Long-Bailey what it did to Corbyn. The Graun’s fantasy leader David Milliband wading in with his Blair-worshipping wisdom on why we lost etc., etc.
Apparently the majority shouldn’t have the right to choose anymore, because the PLP don’t like it.
They treat us with the same contempt that the Tory press treats us and expect to be taken seriously?
One thing that is noticeable is the constant use of the trope of a ‘Left/Right’ dimension as defining Labour attitudes.
It’s a simplification that has been long out of date, as has been long recognised when political views are seriously considered and discussed.
It’s long past its sell-by date as a label, and is now more a badge of self-righteousness (or condemnation) used by opposing narrow factional brands in a Party that is much more diverse.
It’s gone in the non-recyling bin for Christmas garbage this year. I’ll look at personal records and policy beliefs.
RH
Go with policies and how we sell them, not least how we get past the MSM and toilet papers and create new channels of communications
Doug – I think your focus on communication is crucial. It’s also – as we know – the most intractable problem, with the major channels firmly in the hands of elites and plutocrats.
Even tho’ they will be undermined, however, an essential quality of any new leader has to be the ability to communicate effectively.
Well I keep saying we should set up a national daily Labour newspaper or negotiate something with the Morning Star where we fund a major increase in print run and circulation.
Should be do-able, though perhaps with a name-change???
I take your point, timfrom. But newspapers tend to be loss makers big time – funded from the bottomless purses of the plutocrat class – often based outside the UK.
The Morning Star would have to shed its specific allegiance and as you say, pragmatically, change its name. I’m not sure that’s feasible, either.
The problem is partly the historical one. The Blair governments failed on so many fronts to seize the opportunity to decisevely change the structures of power, and now all the levers are in the hands of the worst right-wing government in living memory.
Specifically in this context – they are backtracking on Levison and, essentially, giving their media support carte blanche. Why wouldn’t they?
RT
Works for me, some first class content on there
Doug – There is also a substantial amount of questionable content on RT.
And before the nut jobs start,
It’s a strategy to change how the Labour party is framed by the media, starting with BBC what happened to balance and impartiality, why do all your mistakes favour the Tories and Kuenssberg has to give up her sources on Leeds Infirmary and Postal votes or take a long walk off a short plank
Roughly for the rest the starting point is you are scum and we want nothing to do with you
Ties in with
Boris you are a liar and a charlatan and leader of the most corrupt party in western Europe
We set the agenda
The media will be invited to put things right on our terms, not least on Anti Semitism
Doug 22/12/2019 at 2:10 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/21/bbc-could-restrict-journalists-twitter
The BBC is considering restricting its journalists’ use of Twitter. If the plan is approved, top correspondents will be told to move away from using online platforms to break stories or offer instant analysis.
SteveH
There is a shed load of evidence on Vexatious claims of anti semitism which needs to be aired and for that we can use BBC, they are literally swimming in an alligator infested swamp surrounded by sharks,
Only matter of time before they are begging Labour party to come to their rescue
So let them rediscover some principles and stand up against the onslaught from Cummings/ Bannen glove puppet
Setting up a newspaper would cost millions but an effective online daily news service is quite possible as is an internet TV news channel. I have been trying to get people interested for ages. The marketing and PR side of the LP is terrible and strong reactions to slurs and accusations are as rare as effective attacks and exposures towards our dangerous and toxic opponents.
The LP GE campaign was all positive, all hope, but no danger, no fear. Now we all fear a danger that is self evident.
RH getting desperate now are you? No such thing as left and right wing .Tell that to Corbyn and the membership after having our right wing almost destroying the Labour party.Get real and look left.
You really need to take more care with your reading, Joseph. It’s far too sloppy and confused at the moment.
What I said is that the ‘left/right’ single dimension is far too crude to capture on its own the diversity of Labour politics.
But the simple minded do like it 🙂
“One thing that is noticeable is the constant use of the trope of a ‘Left/Right’ dimension as defining Labour attitudes.”
Not a perfect way to view members, but I’ve not heard of a better way, and I’ll bet a pound you haven’t either.
It also makes it easy to recognise who has got into the wrong party by mistake – they’re ones saying ‘centrist’ without the quotes, and not as a term of abuse.
Your statement without even the suggestion of an alternative, is pure hot air. It’s meaningless bullshit. Typical from a right-winger, at an educated guess.
I’ll let you off the pound. Candy off of an innocent. It’s not difficult to find a number of models of political definition that try to capture more complexity. Go look instead of just bullshitting empty garbage.
Your last sentence emphasises your lack of grasp. The guess isn’t even half-educated – it’s a meaningless gabble.
Left/right are no more tropes, labels or badges than Corbynista/Blairite or male/female, gay/straight or any other shorthand terms for anything that we all generally understand but that may be less than universally applicable, precisely defined or acceptable to all parties.
There’s little insight in finding fault with words unless better alternatives are offered.
There are better alternatives – the most common being two-dimensional : left/right and authoritarian/libertarian – that try to better capture the real world of attitudes.
Try distinguishing between different versions of socialism and communism on a simple left/right axis as a demonstration of the inadequacy.
But ‘policy beliefs’ depend on whether you are eg neoliberal and conservative or not.
For me left means for the people and recognition of the socialist revival. Right means uncontrolled capitalism with proping up the establishment. and the war machine.Basically the right in the Labour party do not belong here.
I have thought Ian Lavery a perfect succession candidate since I saw him at conference in a fringe meeting and took a closer look. He has the robust approach we now need to consolidate our gains in the party since 2015. Dawn would indeed make the dream team, again she is direct and intelligent and a great communicator. To those who dont know these people then do some research of your own. Look at older newspaper articles, and look for their conference and other speeches on YouTube. We all have seen much more of other apparent potential candidates because they have also been media darlings. Ian and Dawn have not been MSM approved but it doesnt make their contributions to the party any less significant. Indeed it may make them all the more powerful.
Labours greatest GE tool was the pledge card,
We need 5 policy/position questions for candidates to respond to,
Then we can judge them, there is no obvious candidates,
But your having a giraffe if you think an immaculate conception can happen to turn us all into believers
Compromise
ALL candidates should be quizzed on there belief in our manifesto, any that disagreed with it should be dumped immediately. From there we should decide on the most capable candidates and one member one vote for all sitting MP’s.
Some thoughts for the bigger picture and for debate ,
We are necessarily introverted right now looking solely at leadership but how the party , regardless of leader , gains power in 5yrs time is questionable , so for 2 pennies worth here goes
To stand any chance i.m.o of over coming such a huge Tory majority , there needs to be on all sides of the opposition parties a humbling of the egos and party loyalty . Thus a coalition of the opposition is a way forward. It would be a temporary coalition between Lab,Libdem,SNP and Greens .
There should be 4 simple items on the coalition manifesto .
1.To bring in full PR .
2.To implement Leveson 2 fully and regulate the so called “free” press as outlined by Leveson.
3.To ban all lobbying , making it illegal for MPs or parties to accept any form of monetary or benefits in kind , with the MPs who transgress facing an automatic jail sentence along with the perpetrator .Funding of parties would be by taxation , the details need to be worked out but not impossible .
4.A written Constitution to prevent the abuse of Parliament vis a viz Johnson proroguing
Whats in it for the others , Libdem get PR their holy Grail , SNP get a Govt more sympathetic to Devolution , Greens get better Representation thro PR . All benefit from a less corrupt system and in effect this is about simply re-setting our Democracy away from what it has now become , a guaranteed Tory Hegemony .
Voters would be faced with 2 Parties/options , vote for the Coalition and get exactly those 4 items nothing more or less.As soon at the 4 stages have been fully implemented and rolled out ( no referendums on any of it , you vote for this , this is what you get ) the Coalition Govt dissolves Parliament and calls a GE .
All the parties revert back to their usual tribal factions and the voters can thus vote for whom they like , safe in the knowledge that their vote counts and there is less corruption of the system than now.
Its really about a re-set of our Democracy , to continue as we are now , no matter who the respective leaders maybe for any of the other parties the system will destroy them just as we have seen , and Tory /Elite rule will continue .
Rob
So close,
Yes to democratic reform and devolution max
But no to electoral pacts with either LibDems or SNP, unless they support Labour manifesto
Biggest change needs to be Blairites and their supporters leave Labour party and join LibDems along with one nation Tories,
Hopefully dustbin that is LibDems will go same way as Peoples Vote
They are not nice people and given time will disappear up their own backsides,
REJOICE
Doug , thanks for the input , this pact would not have anything to do with fictionalised Party manifestos , the parameters are solely to re-set Democracy.
It is designed to remove any barriers to the formation of a robust and simple Coalition , no pet “projects” or red lines or anything like pledges etc . This temporary coalition would last I suspect just 3 or 4 months , in order to drive through the necessary changes .Once completed it would dissolve itself , perhaps with some form of legally binding agreement that would then give the electorate the confidence that they need not fear this pact , it would have one purpose only and that is the re-set of our Democracy .
Suffice to say it would be attacked like hell from all of the MSM Barons/Elite etc hence its need to be simple and safe … no long term coalitions or any Party manifestos .
Those who do attack it would expose themselves to the criticism of being anti Democracy antidemocratic etc .
The annual cost for the state to fund political parties in the UK would be the equivalent of <£1.00/voter. Less than 10p per month is all it would cost each voter to take the big money out of UK politics.
Interesting numbers SteveH , can you tell me how you got them , what sources you used please ?
Rob
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15822333
Political parties ‘should get more taxpayer funding’
22 November 2011
The article is from 2011 so I doubled the quoted 50p per year per voter.
Rob – If you Google
uk political party funding 50p per year
You will find multiple alternative sources listed.
cheers SteveH will do
Need a left wing democratic socialist Leader, Dep & policy.
Lavery & Butler interesting.
Re Morning Star, ALL in LP who supported Corbyn should read & support the Morning Star. As Jeremy says in every other issue of the paper: ” the Morning Star is our most precious and only voice in the daily media” . Jeremy supported the MStar all the time as a back bencher as well as his time as LP leader. Above all, many LP-affiliated TUs have seats on the management cttee of the People’s Press Printing Society (PPPS) the coop which owns the Morning Star. I think it is £5 to take out minimum shares in the PPPS for lifetime me.bership. Details cf http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk
We need an amalgamated network of the morning star Squawk box and the canary .Surviving the witchhunt of the Tory establishment will be extremely difficult for the left wing news.The state will move on all avenues of info for socialism .and wipe out the Labour party if our enemy within are not evicted.
Brian – Preaching to the already converted isn’t the issue, though. It’s the severe problem of cutting through the fog of disinformation that is read (even if its only a headline) by the consumers of the mainstream media.
As I get older I become more aware of the hatred directed @ ‘older’ generations. Accusations of “your generation destroyed the planet” or “you all vote Tory & Brexit”…….crass generalisations that betray an intense lack of awareness & ignorance..
A ‘make do & mend’ generation that lived through intense post war austerity, particularly if you are working class; established the NHS & challenged the establishment world to change via its music & culture.
I make no apologies for my generation, warts n’ all, but the abuse (particularly on Channel 4) demonstrates a bourgeois bitterness #MeMe that has finally made them blind. Oranges are not the only fruit; now we have bitter & twisted lemons.
I half agree with you : the generational conflict thing has been used to divert from the effects of austerity.
But we old fart babyboomers are not the “‘make do & mend’ generation” that went through the war. That was the previous generation.
Those brought up post-war experienced the new benefits of the welfare state that came as a result of that previous generation. It was also a more equal society than we have now. It was a period in which the 1945 Labour government set an agenda that stayed in place for two decades.
But the sad fact is that this generation also contains too many who have forgotten the lessons learned from that time, and *do* vote Tory and *did*. vote for Brexit in a complete reversal of what their parents and grandparents did in voting for a better shared world.
The contrast if voting figures is stark.