Analysis comment

‘Some in that room tonight disgrace our movement’. Bitterites again try to break Corbyn. None linked to them must get near leadership

Disgrace of right-wing MPs now launching move they’ve planned since GE2017

A previous meeting of the parliamentary Labour party

Right-wing Labour MPs again disgraced themselves this evening by attempting to ‘break Jeremy Corbyn as a man’ – even though he has already announced the end of his tenure as party leader.

Labour members now have the unpleasant opportunity to see what would have been launched against Corbyn – and against them – in 2017, if the Labour right had not been stunned by the party’s surge in support to smash Theresa May’s majority.

The frustration of the entitled ‘bitterite’ MPs at having to wait two years to launch their attack was plain. One left-wing Labour MP told the SKWAWKBOX:

It was just attack after attack after attack from right. An absolute disgrace by people who are determined to wreck Jeremy personally and even the policies that nobody disputes the people of this country approve of.

It was appalling to see so many people who clearly despise the working class in one room – and a ‘Labour’ room, supposedly. Those same people caused last week’s disaster by their contempt for our heartlands and their leave vote – and now they want to put the blame on Jeremy and the whole left.

There were bright spots in the contributions from some of the new intake like Claudia Webbe and Mary Foy, who spoke like real Labour MPs – but some of the people in that room tonight disgrace our movement.

The shameful exhibition by a group of entitled MPs desperate to get ‘their’ party back onto Blairite territory made two things plain.

First, PLP meetings must be streamed live to Labour members from now on, so the cowards and bullies who disgrace our party must either curb their behaviour or be exposed.

And second, nobody remotely of their faction can be allowed by members within a mile of leadership or influence in the Labour Party.

Too many people are depending on Labour to be a real alternative for it to be dragged back to ‘Tory lite’ for the sake of the egos of a handful of vile people.

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  1. I’ve just finished watching John Pilger’s documentary ‘The Dirty War on the NHS’

    It is criminal that it wasn’t shown before the GE. Surely the electorate has a right to the information that enables them to make an informed decision.

    1. It wasn’t shown because it would have scuppered Johnson’s chances of election as it proved Jeremy was absolutely right about the sell off of the NHS. Too late now The electorate were taken in by the anti Corbyn propaganda and we are all going to have to live with that for the next 5 years

      1. We knew of the NHS. We should not have waited for any film to be shown by the MSM. The idea to wait for a campaign to point out the failings of the Tories was lamentable. It takes lots of repetition before whats obvious to us is even recognised. I have not heard a single “Corbyn supporting MP” on the radio putting up a defence, since the election. Maybe they are all planning their leadership bids.

        We don’t seem to learn. Corbyn was an unknown, he won, plus two coups. Trump was never a governor or senator. He defeated Clinton. He is still there. She was defeated by the “less experienced” Obama, The people defeated the well funded self-regarding Blairites’ PEOPLES VOTE. Ummuna defeated, Berger defeated, So called centrist moderates, independents and parties, CUCKS, TINGES LIBERAL DEMOCRATS ALL, A L L defeated. These facts must be repeated until even here, stop fetishising BOG NAMES, statesman like, Experience, GENDER, AGE etc etc STOP.

        I am SUPER KEEN for an “unknown” GENUINE CORBYNITE to RISE out of obscurity.

        STOP mentioning Starmer. It is our persistent obsession with MYTHS of “need to bring people together” etc that has cost us this election. Even in the face of the success of Johnson and Trump AND JEREMY at defeating the expected “winners” like Eagle, Cooper, we STILL wish to ignore the screaming facts eg, with ALL THE SAME “celebrated” creatures, Blair, Mandelson, Campbell, PEOPLE’S VOTE, they lost. LOST . With ALL their MILLIONS SPENT, they LOST. We must NOT have ANYONE associated with those LOSERS seizing our party again. LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE of THEIR FAILURES. We must repeat it every hour until we ALL see the facts. It seems too many don’t. Anyone who mentions Starmer in ANY leadership capacity, deputy or otherwise, has not considered the FACTS.

      2. So many posters on the night-shift tonight!

        Did you not see the ITV leaders debate signpost? Why is it that you’re always finding fault where none exists. You’ve done it dozens and dozens of times in the past few weeks. And you so often waffle on about anything you can think of to make your posts as long as possible, AND you somehow get a couple of Likes from people in the middle of the night who didn’t give a Like to any of the other posts. Very odd that!

        So who were these ‘hostile presenters’ by the way? I mean it sounds totally implausible to me that ANY presenter would say such a thing, let alone ‘hostile presenters’, but I am of course happy to have you prove me wrong.

        PS In case anyone is not aware of it, signpost has claimed in at least a couple of posts in the past week or so that ‘hostile presenters’ couldn’t understand why Jeremy hadn’t sued any of the people who’d said he was an antisemite. AND I have now asked him FIVE times to name a couple of them!

    2. Yes, especially as it would have directly exposed a major lie of the Conservative campaign.

      We have been duped by the media. This election was as fair and valid as one held in China or North Korea.

    3. A completely unrelated, deliberately distracting, post from our resident pro Eurofanatic troll, SteveH, as usual when the disgraceful behaviour of the Labour Right is the topic .

      The pathetic responses of Jeremy to both the disgraceful public verbal assault of the viciously Right Wing saboteur ex Wakefield Labour MP ,Mary Creagh (as she cleared out her former office) in the Commons yesterday in front of a group of schoolchildren , and the outrageous behaviour at the PLP of the very Labour Right MPs who are directly responsible for destroying Jeremy’s public image and foisting the suicidal Remain and second Referendum policy on us , is sadly emblematic of the supine response of the entire PLP Left to the endless sabotage of the Right and ‘centrist’ majority over the last our years. Jeremy and his supposed Left comrades (minus two brave brand new Left MPs) just stood and took it and apologised – apologised to those saboteur scum FFS !

      Surely it was long past time for Jeremy to spell out , not HIS supposed failure, but THEIR deliberate, constant sabotage and political treachery and their own policy vacuum (other than a return to Blairism) ? But no, the Labour Left has never, and will never, take on the treacherous Right – ever, over its entire history. And now there is NO believable, solidly socialist candidate to carry on Jeremy’s legacy. Don’t fool yourselves about Long-Bailey or Raynor – both would be crushed and forced back into the Blairite mould within a month or so. The ‘Labour Party’ is from now on a South East England, plus London, plus most of the big cities in England, and Wales, Party , indistinguishable in overall ideology from the Lib Dems – and might as well change its name to ‘The Democratic Party’ in line with its closest international equivalent Party, ie, the Democratic Party in the USA, which competes only on the detail of policies with the Republican Party within an overall neoliberal consensus.

      1. jpenney 18/12/2019 at 11:14 am

        Thanks for the latest diatribe direct from the Tooting Popular Front but it’s all a bit hypocritical coming from someone like yourself who has posted numerous contemptuous comments about Jeremy Corbyn.

  2. Then you Squawk’ve just shown us why we don’t need a leadership election now.We need a none corrupted candidate ,but for now Corbyn and McDonnell have to stay in place.

  3. At least ITV DID show the documentary, and hopefully millions of people watched it. But it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the Sun and the Mail et al are soon claiming that it’s all lies and that John Pilger is working for the Russians/Putin.

    Anyway, would be good to know what it was specifically that happened at the PLP meeting.

      1. I’m not sure about that. I tried to record it but just kept getting the message that there wasn’t enough space, when there more than ample to record it.

  4. There’s an interesting article by Sabrina Huck on the LabourList website.

    What went wrong on December 12th? Answers from Labour Transformed
    One would not normally expect that just two days after a historic defeat, over 100 people would turn up to discuss what should be next for the Labour left in a comradely and positive way. But this is exactly what happened on Saturday, at the first meeting of ‘Labour Transformed’, a new grouping initiated by activists inspired by The World Transformed and our radical policy platform.

    1. Any organisation that has Lara McNeill (NEC’s answer to Katie Hopkins) as a member has nothing to say to me.

    1. Oh right, and in case you didn’t see it (I only saw it myself a couple of hours ago) at the end of a post – in response to a comment I posted – Richard Mackinnon said:

      And by the way get used to me. I am here until Skwawkbox is gone.

      PS When he next posts on skwawkbox, ask him how he envisages THAT happening (if you should see his post before I do).

      Yep, as I said earlier, he sounds like he would have been well at home in Nazi Germany. Or in some other fascist regime, not so different from the one we’re living in now where the media is totally corrupt and dupes and deceives millions of people on a daily basis.

  5. Look its like my old gran used to say “What do you expect from a pig but a grunt”
    These Mps support a man who launched an illegal war in Iraq on the basis of a false premise which caused between 500,000 and a million deaths and led to the rise of Islamist extremists both inside and outside the region. This man introduced private investment schemes in the health service which we will still be paying for in 30 years time . He also introduced tuition fees for students and hires himself out to billionaire despots in between building up his property portfolio. HIs nett worth is said to be around of £60 million.He has denied this and said its ONLY £20 million
    Naturally his supporters in the PLP are going to do their utmost to destroy a fine upstanding man like Jeremy Corbyn. His decency exposes their and Tony Blair’s lack of it.

  6. This is disgusting. Over 4 years of hatred for Jeremy and his policies from the same people time and time again.Can anyone please remind me how those trigger ballots work ? Can they only be used when there’s a forthcoming G.E or can they be used now when those who should have been scalped in the G.E weren’t

    1. I doubt it, but the question of whether they can be used between elections is largely academic because for the process to even start requires the permission of the NEC. The built in fallibility of the trigger ballot process combined with the complete inability of the left to organise themselves meant that even the likes of Hodge survived the process. This tells you all you need to know about the effectiveness of the trigger ballot process. One could be forgiven for thinking it was purposely designed to be thus.

      1. In our region a decision was made by the Regional Board (apparently strongly guided by the Regional Office) to do the trigger ballots in 3 tranches. It was argued that the ‘non contentious’ ones should be ‘got out of the way first’ as they’d be quicker (though I can’t see why that would be the case). The ‘contentious’ ones would be done in the last tranche. Predictably, time ran out for the contentious ones.

      2. Alison C 18/12/2019 at 8:51 am

        and the delayed selection process for PPCs that surprise, surprise resulted in the NEC and Unions being ‘forced’ to impose candidates for PPC on CLPs. Both Corbyn and Watson were against this process. They were in favour of a truncated local process because they believed that selections should be made at CLP level. Unfortunately they were outvoted at the NEC.

      3. Its wednesday so let’s make it Democracy/Devolution day, the idea is we will have agreed between us the 5 questions we want answers to from any prospective leadership candidate

        In civil engineering where you are all forced to live together in the middle of nowhere with a lot of strangers, you have no time for anyone who is not part of the team,
        We were told in no uncertain terms that you dont have to like each other but you do have to work together,
        We were all in it together,
        If you didn’t like it we were told there are plenty more where you came from,
        Please please finish this thread and clarify what powers are available to sack those who bring the party into disrepute
        Regards to all on here who proved during the campaign that we can disagree but we all wanted JC to win

    2. I was desperately hoping we could have deselected the Remain fanatics, BEFORE the election. Alas too late now. The NEC ignored complaints of the worst offenders. The NEC saved them. Now they r putting all the blame on Jeremy who caved into their pressure. Read my old posts and compare with the ARSH Bots in particular. Check the CONSTITUENCIES we lost and see they ALL voted LEAVE. I argued against the trolls here and in my Jeremy supporting groups. The ridiculous responses were assumed total Remain %s, Even though as i posted here, WE WIN BY CONSTITUENCIES, N O T by total percentages. Check my old posts from months ago. Ps and have won a tiny sum from predicting that LimpDims would lose with a max of 15% of the vote. Need to double check may have been less than 11%. Still waiting for other other stakes to come in. Saw no stake for my prediction that BREXIT will NOT be delivered in ANY meaningful way, and DEFINITELY NOT by Johnson. I may be wrong as it depends on who wins CUMMINGS a true leaver and Johnson an epic EPIC Europhile.

      We should have left the Conservatives with their long running argument EU argument, with our approach of 1️⃣ Free vote. 2️⃣ Jeremy argue for LEAVE thereby 3️⃣ educating the young people… even me, who were not old enough to engage with the 1975 ref our grand parents and parents. I’ve had to search out the history. 4️⃣ Whatever the result, it would have been a TORY PROBLEM. 5️⃣ We should have listened and PRIORITISED of our TRADITIONAL LABOUR HEARTLANDS and selected preferably FIVE ( max seven ) fundamental policies that attended to Day to Day BASIC needs: eg
      B – HOMELESSNESS incl tents in woods in wealthy south
      G – EXPOSE MYTHS of TORY good on ECONOMY.

      THOSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FOCUSED on THROUGHOUT the last fours years, not just at campaign. Ideas take time to take root, even basic obvious straightforward ones.

      Just think, even now after the election, ARS H BOTS STILL HAVE’NT GOT A CLUE. It’s not crass stupidity. No humans are that brainless. Their controllers / handlers are determined well super funded outfits …propagandist. They have the staff to read every post they claim are too long and which they claimed they do not read. They have enough staff to check whose getting likes or not. The rest of us type with one finger on a phone, while as now sitting in my kitchen radio station hopping. Now listening to EDDIE MAIR ON LBC at 18:07. Missed 13:10 – 15:50 as had to concentrate on other things.

      ps maybe i am wrong. maybe the ars h bots r just rabid fevered remainiacs who r too unwell to grasp evidence, look at an election map… or maybe it is the FACT that we ALL have different strengths. ALL of us have talents, abilities … STRENGTHS. BUT – Acute observation • Clear reasoning • Appreciating history ➕ the present ➕ incisive analysis • are mist definitely NOT the abilities of the A R S H Bots. Persistence? YES…in spades!!! Full marks. WE ALL NEED THAT…Especially now✅
      Common-sense? Humility to admit when wrong? Understanding? Insight? Oooooo NO. A R S H bots haven’t got a clue.

      1. Regards the list you listed signpost, these issues WERE focused on during the past four years, and you are dissembling yet ANOTHER falsehood in claiming that they WEREN’T!

        Always conjuring up fake ways to criticise and find fault with Jeremy and Co aren’t you, like the clever, devious AND duplicitous little black propagandist you are!

    1. Repeat, Repeat, Repeat! How many times is that now Joseph?! So where are these ‘real socialist candidates’ gonna suddenly spring from?

  7. Apologies, but as you may have seen, the ‘Salisbury Poisonings’ came up in a thread earlier (yesterday) and:

    Now HERE’s some food for thought re Nick Bailey. I mean why on earth would HE -and the other two police officers – have any reason to think to wear protective suits and masks when going in to Sergei Skripal’s house? And given that he did, and he/they had some reason to think that they should, if you then began to feel “sweaty and hot” shortly afterwards, is it really plausible that you would then wait two days before going to the hospital. And isn’t it odd how HE just happened to be close by just when the Skripals became incapacitated, and SO close by that he could see them AND that he should then that evening go to Sergei Skripal’s house and be the one that opened the front door and then become ill – ie contaminated, and despite wearing protective clothing. The following is from the NY Times:

    On the night of March 4, after the Skripals were found unconscious on a park bench but before it was clear what had sickened them, three officers of the Wiltshire Police went to their home to investigate. Sergeant Bailey said he was the first one into the house, meaning he was the one who grasped the door handle.

    The officers wore protective suits, including gloves and masks, he told the BBC, and later took them off and bagged them for disposal. He said he did not know how, despite his protective gear, he had made contact with the nerve agent.

    Back at the police station, “my pupils were like pinpricks and I was sweaty and hot, and at the time I put that down to being tired and stressed,” Sergeant Bailey said. He went home, and it was not until two days after the Skripals had taken ill that he went to a hospital for treatment.

    “Everything was juddering — I was very, very unsteady on my feet,” he said. “My whole body was dripping with sweat.”


    And of course it doesn’t make any sense – in the Real World that is – that Skripal’s pets wouldn’t have been taken away to be looked after (and checked over) at the time AND his two guinea pigs allegedly found dead some three weeks later, and his cat in such a bad way that it had to be put to sleep.

    None of it adds up of course!

    NB And by early evening of Monday the 5th, the MSM are reporting that Sergei Skripal is a former Russian colonel AND that he spied for the UK AND that he (and a ‘woman’) had been exposed to an ‘unknown substance AND that ‘the case drew immediate comparison to the murder of former FSB officer Alexander Litvinenko’ etc, and yet it apparently didn’t occur to either Nick Bailey, or his wife, or any of his colleagues, that he had been exposed to this ‘unknown substance’ as well, and THAT’s why he was all sweaty and hot. And if he thought it was down to feeling tired and stressed, surely if he was STILL feeling weird after a night’s sleep, surely you would conclude that it wasn’t tiredness and stress that was responsible.

    1. The following Indy article was posted at 19.10, and the video clip of the Wiltshire Police saying that a ‘major incident has been declared today’ had obviously happened at some point prior to the article being posted, and yet no-one suspected that Nick Bailey – including himSELF – stopped to think that he was feeling unwell because he TOO had been contaminated by the ‘unknown substance’?!

      1. Allan
        and yet no-one suspected that Nick Bailey – including himSELF – stopped to think that he was feeling unwell because he TOO had been contaminated by the ‘unknown substance

        Perhaps PC Bailey read one of your comments pointing out it was all a big hoax and believed there was nothing for him to worry about.

      2. Afterthought: I mean is it standard practice to send ordinary police officers to a location that is suspected to possibly be so dangerous that they have to wear protective suits and masks? I very much doubt it somehow.

        Anyway, despite the fact that they did, and despite the fact that one of them – ie Nick Bailey – ended up in hospital a couple of days later etc, the chemical weapons experts didn’t think to check the house until THREE weeks later and only THEN discover the Novichok – allegedly – on the front door handle.

        In the Real World they would have been there the day after the Skripals collapsed, and the front door handle would have been the very first thing they checked prior to entering the house:

      3. Allan Howard 18/12/2019 at 8:34 am

        You’re just showing yourself up for the shill that you are Steve

        Or maybe, I was just taking the —- out of you.

    2. If, as claimed, the Novichok was sprayed on the door of the Skripal house, then we would surely expect the two Russian agents to wear full protective clothing. They did not.

      Nor do I see a motive for killing him when they could have done it years ago and when there is a ‘no harm’ convention for those subject to a spy swap.

      There have been, of course, mysterious deaths of foreigners in this country.

      Here’s one example:

  8. Names?

    We all know why. It’s about controlling the balance of power on the NEC, it’s about terrifying anyone left from standing again.

    But let’s have names shall we? Or is it the usual suspects of fully grown children?

    1. Why don’t we play a game to expose these members of the PLP? We can all take a guess as to those who will not rest until the Labour party is destroyed. Then let them deny it.

  9. Historians will look at this period (2015-2019) in British politics and condemn these individuals and the whole establishment.

  10. If Skwawkbox is going to make a contribution to the revival of a socialist Labour Party then we must focus.
    We must refuse all conspiracy theories.
    We must stop all mutual recriminations, especially between Brexit/Remain.
    We must leave the past in the past.
    We must concentrate on putting forward a viable strategy for combatting the Conservatives in the present, and replacing them in the future.

    1. I am struggling to remain polite here Ceredig.The right are already in full attack mode.They are deluging left sites that I go to with “we need to move to the right”ie “sensible policies” and “we need an electable leader”as though their actions hadn’t played a major part in stopping the current leader being elected.If your message becomes the mantra of the left,then the left will be swept aside.

      1. John Thatcher…If we followe that nonsense we might as well join the torys.I Suspect we have a number of collaberators with the Mickey mouse moderates on this site,but according to Ceredig…everything is a conspiracy theory and real life is just ever so simple.Tell that to the Irish who have felt the wrath of the British establishmen.

    2. Ceredig. ..And we should stop behaving like mindless sheep and keep Corbyn in position till we have a proper leaders to choose from,not just Mickey mouse moderates.

      1. And how would you go about keeping Jeremy in position Joseph? And where do you suppose these ‘proper leaders’ are gonna spring from?

        And sheep are NOT mindless!

  11. Some Labour people (and the Morning Star/CPB) are now blaming us “Remainiacs”. But, of course, these craven Brexiteers make no sense. Do they mean Labour should have supported May’s deal? Or did they have a sparkling “left Brexit” option up their sleeves? If so, why didn’t they propose it? In Parliament? Or at the Labour Party conference in September? Or in a single CLP (that I’m aware of). For all McCluskey’s Brexity bleatings, he never proposed a clear pro-Brexit line within the party. And Unite’s policy continues to be to support EU membership (Lennie conveniently ignores this in his bleatings). Actually the Labour pro-Brexiters hardly ever proposed anything more than evasion.

    A decisive Labour Leave position could not have won over Remainers. It would have seemed shifty, opportunistic and dishonest after Labour’s Remain stance in 2016. Even apart from being unprincipled, it would have lost even more votes for Labour than the evasive line that we put forward in the election.

    As it was, Labour appeared “indecisive”. A manifesto packed with good left-wing policies – and Labour comes across as “indecisive”, weak, dithering! All because we didn’t take a clear, principled and combative Remain stance.

    1. You’re right. I was disappointed enough on Thursday night.

      But the lack of little other than the rehearsal of old myths and fables as a response to the defeat is utterly depressing, and bodes ill for moving on.

      *Of course* the perception of Labour’s stance on Brexit was a factor..Cake and eat it was never a good position for a Party whose membership was overtly solidly for ‘Remain’. In the end, the 2nd Referendum was as good a fall-back as could be achieved, but by then, the mistakes had already been made.

      Then there’s the MSM trope about the ‘Labour Heartlands’, lazily based on a class analysis appropriate to the 19th Century. Things have changed in those areas – and if, after Thursday’s results you can’t work out that they are not areas with an exclusively Labour vote – you can’t read a ballot paper. The core vote is no longer an automatic response defined by industries that neoliberalism wiped out. Have a closer look at the map and the profile of voters before pontificating about what went wrong. It isn’t occupational class that automatically defines allegiance.

      The ‘Brexit’ explanation is a comfort blanket that bears only an incidental relationship to voting patterns – a conservative policy, pushed by the propaganda press and adopted by conservative voters. It had nothing to do with deeply held analysis about deprivation.

      The manifesto contained a lot of excellent policy issues – but, as Corbyn himself has said, the ‘initiative a minute’ approach was too unfocussed.

      And then, of course, the key overarching element – and the most difficult to counter : the lack of anything like a balanced media. That role was in itself easily worth a 10% gap in support.

      1. I notice, Joseph, your way of dealing with the failure of your views to match an alternative take is to concoct a supplementary fiction. It seems to be a sort of protective cocoon.

    2. There is a difference, and its not very subtle, between full Brexiteers and the 2017 policy of “respect the referendum and negotiate a new deal that does as little damage as possible”

    3. A rant from the always emptily politics-less pro EU fanatic, Jim Denham. As with all the supposedly ‘radical socialists’ who backed the neoliberal EU wholeheartedly throughout, Denham is , like them all, desperately scratching around to find a way to blame the few Lexiters who have warned constantly that a Labour betrayal of its 2017 Commitment to ‘respect the 2016 Referendum result’ would lose us our Labour heartlands , probably forever, for the predictable disaster. Sad, but also predictable.

      Denham , and other ‘Left’ pro EU fanatics are now claiming that the Left Brexiters never even tried to put our case within the Labour Party, or EXPLAIN our case. This is simply lying on a brass-necked scale . Have a look, for instance at the copious material, rich in real socialist theory and general factual analysis of every aspect of the Brexit /EU issue, on our Full Brexit site for years now
      Thishighly detailed analysis puts to shame the shallow sloganizing of the entire pro EU supposed ‘Left’ – who have never ventured beyond mimicking Kier Starmer’s nonsense Conference claim that the EU ‘represented working class and socialist internationalism’ , and that the EU ‘protected worker’s rights’ ! (Tell THAT to the French working class currently locked in rolling General Strikes against Macron’s ripping up of their pension rights ! )

      What Is sadly true is that the overwhelming majority of our Labour Party’s mainly middle class , white collar, relatively privileged, activist membership at branch, CLP and Conference levels, remained utterly impervious to the factual and socialist theory and tradition- based arguments put forward in favour of a Lexit position for our Party. Given the massive superiority of our Lexiter fact-based arguments, as against superficial waffle from the Labour Left Remainer side – and the Remainer’s utter lack of empathy or understanding of the damage neoliberalism generally, and the EU’s unlimited labour supply in pasrticular, has done to the abandoned working classes in our old heartlands, the only explanation for the reality of nil traction across the Party for the Lexit argument, and our repeated warnings that a Remain position would cost us our heartland voter seats, is that the now overwhelming privileged middle class composition of our Party has led to the supposed ‘Corbynite Left’ of the Party in reality being just Left Liberals, with no real major underlying ideological beefs with the Labour Right – just policy differences within a neoliberal consensus.

      Sad that even those, like Denham (ex or continuing member of the AWL Trot micro sect) , hailing from even the majority of the supposed Marxist sects, are just as middle class in background and viewpoint and mired in identity politics and scattergun virtue-signalling demands as the reformist Labour ‘Left’, no more in fact than faux ‘revolutionary’ Left Liberals, not Marxists in any way. The was PLENTY of analysis and arguments and warnings from us on the Lexiter side over the last few years – but the middle class Left Liberal pseudo ‘Left’ simply weren’t listening – and are still apparently totally incapable of understanding our historical-scale defeat !

  12. Guaranteed to raise your blood pressure. Tony Blair’s thoughts on where we went wrong. A lot of words but very little in the way of actual solutions. (Sorry about the source but it was the longest version I could find)
    Tony Blair has warned Labour that the party he used to lead will be “replaced” as a serious political entity if it tries to “whitewash” the scale of its defeat at the general election.

    Ex-PM Blair has given a speech after unveiling new research which indicates that the reasons why people didn’t vote for Labour go “far deeper” than the party’s Brexit stance and the unpopularity of Jeremy Corbyn.

    Mr Blair is adamant that unless it changes course, the party faces electoral oblivion.

  13. Jim Denham.. I like to see a different argument but I think yours cost us the election despite my veiw of the heartlands not being stupid enough to cut their own thtoats and commit suicide on a point of principal. I am afraid that delusion and lies are the first signs of insanity.Solidarity Comrade

  14. Just came across the following Sun article re the PLP meeting yesterday evening (here’s the headline and a couple of clips):

    Furious Labour MPs slam Jeremy Corbyn at showdown meeting over leadership and ‘economically illiterate’ policies

    Confronting his defeated party for the first time since the election, Mr Corbyn issued a grovelling apology telling them: “I am very sorry for the result for which I take responsibility.”

    But he infuriated his MPs by blaming Labour’s catastrophic defeat solely on Brexit and “the media”.

    Furious MPs stood up one by one during the marathon meeting in Parliament to blast his “economic illiterate” policies and woeful leadership.

    Labour MP Rachel Reeves said: “I said to Jeremy, you can make all the excuses in the world about Brexit, about the mainstream media, about people not voting.”


    Meanwhile, Tony Blair will today launch a scathing attack on Mr Corbyn’s “failure” as he unveils polling which lays bare Labour’s problem in its northern heartlands.

    Speaking in London, former PM will say: “This election was no ordinary defeat for Labour. It marks a moment in history.”

    He will also launch a new report by Deltapoll which highlights five reasons Labour flopped in the polls – bad leadership, Brexit dithering, and their weakness on extremism, security and economic credibility.

    The report says the hard-left are immediately booted out the party if they want to get back into power.


    Funny how none of the ‘five reasons’ applied in 2017…… well, except for the Blairites forcing Jeremy to offer a second referendum if elected.

    1. PS And I get the distinct impression that in the last picture of Blair at the end of the article, the thought in his head and his expression is saying to all of us on the left: “We got you, you xxxxx, and we ain’t finished with you yet!”.

  15. Has anyone done a count on how many centrist are left in the party? the left has the NEC, I think the centrist lost about 30 PMs. All that is needed now is a strong no nonsense leader who will knock this party into shape & not be so concerned about upsetting people or the media.

    The one benefit Labour have with Johnson’s majority is it doesn’t matter if these PMs leave the party. So come on get done what Corbyn was too weak to do. Force these bastards inline or out the door.

    1. Nothing like ‘more of the same’ to solve a problem.

      Or – hang on – wasn’t that ‘insamity’?

      1. Your comments have become increasingly bizarre,as you continue to deny the obvious RH.You are rapidly reaching the point with,that like with one or two others who post here your comments will pass unread in this house.

      2. OK John. You disagree. Fair enough. But I don’t think it’s me whose denying the obvious fact that ‘this house’ has a few holes in it’s roof – and dodgy foundations when it comes to winning strategies.

  16. Many on the left of the Party voted to Remain yet the leavers especially the Lexiters are trying to smear anyone who voted Remain as being right wingers or ‘Centrists’ and are now trying to pin the blame on Remainers for our election defeat. After a massive right wing Leave campaign of propaganda full of lies and smears, in the referendum, approximately half the voters still voted to Remain. Most of the damage was done prior to the referendum by Labour right wingers such has Gisela Stuart and Kate Hoey who were never out of the media promoting Leave. We never made a strong enough case to Remain, despite it being the only sensible choice,

    1. That’s it Jack T,continue to deny the obvious.Are you people really claiming that Labour’s changed position on Brexit between the 2017 and 2019 elections had no influence on the result.People here tried to warn you long before the election what the results of backing remain would be,but you ploughed ahead regardless.Stop adding insult to injury by denying the truth,and take responsibility.

      1. Oh – it had an effect. People saw the adoption of a Tory policy – which had already damaged credibility in the face of the Party membership, becoming a confused morass!

        Those initial errors (including the Article 50 position) were where the damage was done – with the Party essentially validating the Tory position, and then, too late, attempting to make some sense of it with the referendum promise.

        I write with knowledge of the attitudes of those in the *real* ‘Labour heartlands’ – who didn’t vote Tory.

    2. Sensible choice for whom? You cannot begin to know what goes through your partner’s head, let alone the nation, yet you have decided it’s the only sensible choice.

      Never mind that millions have not gained through the EU (whilst GDP has doubled during EU membership), but instead have been abused by businesses exploiting free movement. Never mind that studies proved that the lowest portion of the UK stuffers “slightly” due to free movement. And on that note, nothing is slight when you’re at the bottom.

      The warning signs have been around for over a decade, yet nobody bothered to even look at them, let alone address them.

      Yes, voters have killed the NHS and enabled a hard Tory Brexit. But if people like yourself hadn’t tried to subvert democracy (because it’s the sensible choice), and instead focused on making the best from what was obviously going to happen makes you (and lots of others including Labour “grandees”) by far the biggest guilty party. Action=reaction.

      On a positive note, the Corbyn experiment has proven once and for all that Labour is _not_ the party of the working class anymore, Galloway is correct. Underclass is more accurate though. Think America. Rich, middle class, everyone else.

  17. Why are those usual suspects not excludedfrom the party. There is ample evidence that all they have ever done is underineandabuse the leadership.

    1. I reckon they are all pretty safe for now. Regardless of what we may think of the process they’ve all been subjected to the possibility of a trigger ballot and they’ve all just been selected by their CLP’s to represent their constituencies.

      1. The problem here is that few can get their heads round the actual complex nature of the Labour Party – let alone what’s going on outside it.

        You could see that in the surprise offered up when the old Labour right didn’t deselect certain characters in constituency ballots in old industrial areas. The same shortsightedness is seen in clinging onto totally outdated notions about ‘Labour heartlands’ and ‘THE working class’ – as if this was an unproblematic description. These seats have been vulnerable to Tory ideas for a long time, going back to the Thatcher years when council house purchases were gladly seized.

        The caravan has moved on – which doesn’t invalidate Labour principles – admirably captured in the manifesto. But easy and outdated assumptions about who are your supporters are is a ball and chain.

  18. Jack T , ,,, ,, Same old….same old and the delusion becomes the truth?. Lets fight brexit again and help the Torys..Can we drop what is not in our power to influence and actually concentrate on stopping the NEC into railroading us the membership into an election of a leader without any left wing candidate on offer.And I mean not mickey mouse moderates and rag tag and bobtail pretend socialist chancers..

    1. Like it or not Joseph I’m afraid you are just going to accept that there’s going to be a leadership election. You are going to have to vote for someone even if in your opinion it’s on basis of picking the least worst alternative.

  19. ‘All that is needed now is a strong no nonsense leader who will knock this party into shape & not be so concerned about upsetting people or the media.’

    In the first place – having sabotaged Jeremy’s leadership and finally toppled him – I don’t think there’s any way on this planet that Blair and the Blairites and the corporate MSM and the Establishment are gonna let the left elect another ‘Corbyn’ as leader, but in the unlikely event that it DID happen and the saboteurs went in to smear campaign mode again AND assuming they – the new leader – fitted your description, I doubt they would last more than a year.

    The implication of what you’re saying is that Jeremy wasn’t tough enough and that’s why we lost the election AND that a tough leader could have, and if THAT’s the case, I’m afraid to say you’re living in Cloud Cuckooland.

    The only possible way forward is to enlighten the electorate as to how they have been duped and deceived and manipulated by the corporate and political elite AND why; and how they ‘transformed’ a thoroughly decent man of great integrity who aspired to changing our reality for the better, into the complete opposite. In other words, shine a light on the darkness and the evil, because the road they are taking us down is fast approaching the cliff edge.

  20. Ed Miliband is a lovely human being but a political lightweight and with his cronies like the arrogant political morons Reeves and Benn wouldn’t listen but I never criticised Ed once in public in 3 years.
    Labour should have got over the line in 2017 but the slagging off of Jeremy by 100 or so Right Wing Labour MPs in public for a year including the verbal and mental domestic abuse of the coup resigners I believe lost us this moment in history and we don’t forget them.
    Now Blair has the gall to lay into decent and too kind Jeremy, and Blair is the man along with Bush and Campbell who were responsible for 200,000 deaths in Iraq based on lies; The Hague awaits but Western Imperialists usually get away with it and is is little consolation knowing they will probably have severe mental health problems in later years when the World wants justice!
    Now all the Right Wing Morons lay into Jeremy but these who leech off working people should dare say the same to us and they would get bloody piece of our minds.
    Right Wing Remainer Political Morons we lost because of YOU and your political stupidity!
    4 million diverse w class kids are in poverty and this will increase, more homeless, more poverty pay, more dire social housing need, less opportunities for the young, bit by bit the NHS continued privatised Right Wing because of YOU!
    Yes for political morons like Phillips, Starmer. Thornberry, Creasey, Cooper et al hell hath no fury like Right Wing political imbeciles trying to deflect the blame from their own political stupidity!
    Labour and unions need to do a Syrizia and support, politicise and stand by those who will be hammered.
    Neo-Liberalism is in structural decline and as Streekt argues with QE “The rich and powerful are just buying time because they haven’t a clue what to do” but Labour does with state-led public investment.
    We face the most Right Wing Neo-Liberal Tory Govt ever WHO PRETEND TO BE ONE NATION (though they have kicked out most such MPs) but they can be intellectually crushed with ease!
    So let’s have RBL and Burgon and keep the left wing democratic socialist flame alive.
    As for the Right WHO ARE TO BLAME perhaps they could make the following resolution following voting for: the Iraq War, Afghanistan, Libya and the bombing in Syria “I promise not to vote in future for bombing our black and brown brothers and sisters and failure to comply means I will leave the Labour stage.”
    Right Wing – Say Not form Whom the Bell May Toll, It Tolls For YOU!
    I finish offering hope with one of my poems.
    (The hawk is a right wing candidate, the canary is Labour members):
    ‘The hawk on the canary landed.
    Playing the chameleon’s part.
    And whispered ” I come to heal you.”
    But failed to remove the heart.
    And then the canary turned back into a lion.”
    Solidarity with left wing democratic socialists!

  21. Emily Thornberry has just announced that she will run for the leadership. BBC R4 The World at One

  22. line the Mickey mouse moderates up and I will not tolerate or go backwards so parade the dross and see what the !membership think.Half a million educated members and down to twenty thousand next year if we aceppt the delusion of the NEC. and aceppt an election foisted upon us…. Corbyn can stay like he planned and see the Labour party safe.. . “You can take a horse to the trough” ?

  23. Right you fuckers can we get back to the day job
    Do we have the powers to remove PLP members who shit on us from a great height Yes or No
    Pointless having a hatchet man if he/she cant wield the axe,
    Would require a leader who can call a truce until we change the rules or we go to war and winner gets to keep the Labour Party

    1. I think, as Labour Party members, an open letter should written in regards to the constant bullying of Jeremy and members of his team and that if they did not cease this volatile behaviour we would seek to initiate trigger ballots.

      The so called ‘moderates’ aren’t scared of the disciplinary procedure but are terrified of trigger ballots

      1. We really do need to be better organised. I’ve already requested that my old MP’s office to be turned into a ‘Labour Hub’ that will have a foodbank/clothesbank, benefits assistance, local issues so as we gain our communities trust back – funding could come from the Unite community that already assists with benefit problems, other trade unions, Labour Party and members.

        Online, Swkawkbox and other independent media websites and leftwing outriders do a good job in calling bullshit when it’s needed, which is most of the flaming time But we need something more.

        We desperately need someone good with facts so as they can learn the Labour Rule book inside and out and I think the person for that is ToryFibs – he does his research really well.

        We are 4 year long battle hardened members/supporters but we’ve gotta get our sh#t together or we will keep going around in circles with that RW shower.

  24. The Tories announced the chair for their racism inquiry and within 24 hours it turns into a full-on car crash as their ‘impartial’ chair exposes his own religious prejudices.

    Tory Islamophobia inquiry chair in row over Kashmir views
    Swaran Singh’s neutrality in question over comments conflict is not Muslim-only tragedy

    The newly appointed chair of the Conservative party’s inquiry into its handling of complaints about discrimination, including Islamophobia, has been plunged into a row over comments he made about the disputed Kashmir region.

    The Tory peer Sayeeda Warsi questioned the views of Prof Swaran Singh, who was announced on Tuesday as the chair of the review, after he wrote a piece for an online publication whose editor has dismissed Islamophobia as a term designed to shut down criticism of Islam.

  25. Although the provided link actually portrays Paul Mason on the news of hearing 12 December’s Exit Poll, that fact that the person who’s added the subtitles was most prescient about Mason’s next move, effectively issuing a list of key demands to the LP and its membership, its funny as it portrays our extreme Remainiacs for what they are, namely deluded. That Mason is even depicted calling for the culling of the working class in the North, Midlands and Wales, in order to protect them from fascism, we can gauge the mindset of those unwilling to heed sage advice in the LP leadership, and on its backbenches, maybe this silly little subtitled snippet should have applied to the majority of the PLP, who, lets face seem incapable of seeing outside the London bubble, and associating with persons who’s lips are stuck to their backsides – usually, if you want, good, honest advice, its best to have ‘No’ men surrounding you, not persons feeding your own delusions.

    In a nutshell, much of the PLP is unfit for purpose. And then they wonder why they lost the Election, which, I actually think they engineered to lose as retribution against JC for preventing their ChickenCoup MKII in June 2017 by giving Labour its best performance since 1945, despite the fact it lost, but not by that much as far as real votes go. Anyhow, do enjoy, as all this Labour crap is now making me feel physically ill:

  26. Democracy/Devo,ution day
    Should the party vote against government on Brexit
    Methinks definitely not, have nothing to do with any Brexit or Scottish independence matters
    On Brexit our position is it is a cheap and nasty Tory party Eton mess
    Scottish independence referendum should not happen until it meets the first rule of minimum 60% demand for it over a 12 month period
    Our policy is for further devolution and investment

  27. Richard Burgon monstered on Politics Live for the simple reason they get to frame the story
    When are we going to learn they dont like us and they are very rude
    My grandbairn was told by his mum he wasn’t allowed to hit anyone unless they hit him first
    Sure enough he was up before the beak/headmistress for fighting
    On the way home his mum asked him what happened,
    He hit me first mam, then I accidentally strangled him
    The Labour party has to learn to get their retaliation in first, for gods sake it’s a no brainer

    1. It was good when he reminded Sun journalist that he had successfully sued his newspaper for libel.

  28. I’m assuming no one knows what powers if any we have to remove those who wake up every morning and plan how they can bring down their own party

    1. We failed to properly democratise the party for members Doug, the trigger ballot was a tokenism. All we have is the trigger ballot and disciplinary route.

      We need to push for open selection this time at conference !

      I’d like to hear what the leader candidates opinion on this is as well.

      1. Don’t forget to ask Len, it was Unite that blocked it last-time. The words Turkey and Christmas come to mind.

      2. Foggy the socialist Labour party will not survive till conference and its usually a stitch up by the Mickey mouse moderates anyway and has been for over forty years.The NEC is not LWing and hasn’t been since it was hijacked by factions.We need democracy now and a boycott of the election and the rush for power .He who pays the piper calls the tune.!Strength is our membership.

  29. Beware of the media telling us who we should vote for as the next leader

    1. So far it seems to be Lisa Nandy and Jess Phillips getting the big push. Both complete non-starters of course, but we can expect this type of interference from the MSM (and Tony Blair’s instructions from beyond the political grave) throughout the leadership campaign.

  30. Blairism………the art of turning a sow’s purse into a pig’s ear………apologies to my Muslim & Jewish friends.

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