Wallace said Johnson’s actions are because he has no majority and no coalition
Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has been caught on camera in a candid moment admitting that Boris Johnson has prorogued Parliament, not out of any wish to introduce new legislation – but in an attempt to bypass Johnson’s parliamentary weakness, because the government has no majority in the Commons.
Wallace even confesses that Johnson is playing politics. The SKWAWKBOX has enhanced the audio compared to the original video:
Wallace was rapidly slapped down by Number 10, with a Downing St spokesperson insisting he ‘misspoke’.
But as Charlie Wallace, editor of royal-watching site Royal News, observed, Wallace’s admission means that Boris Johnson misled the Queen in order to achieve his aim of blocking MPs from challenging his no-deal Brexit course:
SKWAWKBOX view:
Tories abusing the constitution and the monarchy to save themselves is nothing new – Theresa May did it several times as she scrabbled to cling to power in the wake of the 2017 general election.
Boris Johnson has proven even more weak, inept and unprincipled than his useless predecessor – and no better at preventing the cat escaping the bag.
But if the UK had anything remotely resembling a functioning democracy and a fit-for-purpose ‘mainstream’ media estate, his lies to the head of state would bring down the government.
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Weak, inept, unprincipled? Sounds like Jeremy changing our Party’s line on Brexit!
https://www.thefullbrexit.com/dear-corbynistas
Danny coming out to bat for the Zionists again whose only aim is to get rid of Corbyn at any cost. Bad penney will be next at the crease.
I don’t care who’s at whose crease but I could have done without that image in my head – thanks a lot, Jack T ‘~’
“Danny” is deliberately unpleasant and provocative and is non stop in his efforts to undermine our policies and our morale. He is probably paid to do so.Same with JPenney. I usually ignore them because they are clearly not genuine contributors.
David McNiven. But then he gets bowled out by a googly from RH. Is that any better? 🙂
Dearie, dearie, me. The all-day posting paid pro EU Trolls and that strange one obsessed with “Zionists”(ie, Jews) as well , Jack T, out in numbers again today to mislead the Liberal Lefties on here. Why is what Danny wrote here in any way, “batting for the Zionists again” you now quite open anti-Semite, Jack T ? Of course no other poster will call out Jack T’s open constant anti-Semitic posts – but his non-sequitur reference to “Zionism” every time the Jewish poster, Danny, posts up a comment is very creepy. Jack T surely should be banned, Skwawkie ?
The always notably dimwitted Smartboy thinks anyone who doesn’t support the endless machinations on Brexit by the out of their depth, Corbyn leadership circle, or indeed recognise the sad metamorphosis of lifelong anti EU “old Bennite” , Jeremy Corbyn, into a catspaw of the EU-loving Labour Right since he became Labour Leader and was ground down by the Right’s three years of sabotage, must be “paid” to post, and “not genuine contributors”. Not Genuine ? – like those all-day, every day, blatant paid Trolls like Steve H , RH, and anti-Semite, Jack T , for instance ?
Grow up, posters like McNiven, and Smartboy, unlike your precious little selves, Danny and myself have between the two of us over NINETY YEARS of radical socialist activism, both within the Labour Party and in other more radical socialist groups, and active trades unionism, to our names – so fuck off you stupid little Left Liberal know-nothings. If you can’t do the necessary research to understand the nature of the EU, or recognise the electoral bear trap the political weakness of the Labour Left is leading us into, hide you little heads in the sand. The coming snap General Election is going to prove our warnings all too accurate. The 2015 “Corbyn Insurgency” needn’t have ended in this dire place – if only the old Labour Left had had more bottle and political nous, and the bulk of Labour Party “Corbynistas” weren’t proved very quickly to be just Left Liberals, not socialists as it sadly turned out. And if Momentum hadn’t been neutered by Lansman with Jeremy’s approval.
https://www.thefullbrexit.com/why-does-the-british-left-love-the-
“The 2015 “Corbyn Insurgency” needn’t have ended in this dire place – if only the old Labour Left had had more bottle and political nous”
More unsupported assertions. If you ever write anything that isn’t I’ll show my arse in Burton’s window.
We’re where we are because the Tories own the MSM and the whole of capitalism is foursquare behind them in their determination to STOP CORBYN – but you’ll blame it all on him and us for not backing brexit, you obsessed fucking zealot.
jpenney, is again predictably calling for anyone who criticises Zionists and Zionism to be silenced using the excuse that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism. Does that go for all those brave Jews who have no time for Zionism? In fact anti-Semitism is rife among Zionists.
My references to Zionism as far as you and Danny are concerned is questioning your motives for the constant criticism of Jeremy Corbyn who supports the Palestinian fight against Zionists. It has nothing to do with anti-Semitism as you well know but Zionists never miss a chance to wheel out the anti-Semitism charge in a despicable attempt to support their racist ideology.
Many of us in the Labour Party are now wise to the actions of the Zionist JLM and their attempt to turn the Party into a pro-Israel organisation but you are going to see a massive reaction against them. Anyone, particularly Socialists, including Jews, who has a natural repulsion to seeing the way the Palestinians are being displaced from their land and homes by Zionists from all over the world is bound to react against it.
This is a VERY interesting debate where those such as jpenney who are trying to conflate anti-Semitism with anti-Zionism were sent packing.
https://www.intelligencesquared.com/events/anti-zionism-is-anti-semitism/
“Danny and myself have between the two of us over NINETY YEARS of radical socialist activism,”
I had a good laugh at that.
*Ninety* years of self-abuse in a darkened room!
Now – that does indeed show real unproductive stamina!
You’re verbally dribbling again Danny boy , get nursey to mop you up ,it’s embarrassing
a. The party line hasn’t changed – it was made to be flexible in the face of changing Tory strategies, but the manner of that flexibility was built in from the start.
b. It’s not Corbyn’s policy. It’s conference policy, decided by the party membership. Corbyn is bound by that.
Danny
Hate to shit in your custard again but
If any of your bullshit was relevant alongside all the vexatious AS crap thrown at JC, Party, Membership and Supporters, shirley it would have wiped us out in the polls by now.
FPTP last man standing takes all,
Guess who that is, see Peterborough and the difference members like Jim make on the ground
Have a great weekend
Anyone wanting a snapshot view of the policy mess Labour has got itself into over Brexit need look no further than today’s Times two page interview with “our man from the Deep State” , Kier Starmer. In amongst all the waffle is this series of exchanges between Times interviewer and Starmer. With slippery hypocrisy like this rife amongst most now of Labour’s Shadow Cabinet (whether nominally from the Labour “Left” or Right) , there is surely no chance of our Leave supporters in our Labour heartlands voting for such a mealie mouthed bunch in an imminent Election in which Brexit will unfortunately be THE key issue, no matter how much Labour quite rightly highlights the NHS, etc !
Below is a key excerpt exchange with Starmer:
“……. Sir Keith goes further. “If it comes to a referendum, I have repeatedly said, I personally would campaign for remain because I don’t think there is a deal that is as good as the deal that we’ve got”.
Even if Prime Minister Corbyn struck a Labour Brexit deal with Brussels ? “Let’s wait and see where we are. I personally would campaign for Remain. I think many people in the Labour Party will campaign for Remain.” Which raises the question; why would the EU bother if it knew Labour’s Brexit spokesman would campaign against its own deal.
This is why many believe the real motivation is not stopping no-deal, but stopping Brexit altogether. If they get an extension, what then ?
“We shouldn’t be trying to answer that question at the moment ….”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/keir-starmer-prorogation-has-forced-everyone-to-ask-themselves-which-side-they-are-on-pgpxhb07k
jpenney 31/08/2019 at 1:24 pm
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/08/28/poll-95-of-readers-believe-swinsons-libdems-would-prop-up-johnsons-tories/#comment-118034
HRH should not be let off the hook. Her advisors and I’m sure she herself know the protocols and conventions involved and were not “misled”.
Craig Murray’s take.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/08/the-queens-active-role-in-the-right-wing-coup/comment-page-1/#comments
Little paulo likes this link.
…as well as the cricket references.
… and Rob’s football reference
lol, little paulo.
Maria…..you are on good form again.Yes of course she knew whats she’s doing…Basically supporting the elite and her Royal family.Its Quite sickning to see some on here excusing her like the msm Subservience even by the nominal left wing .No wonde they despise the feeble minds of her subjects……Its not easy choosing socialism when I see comrades groviling like surfs…..I feel embarrassed for them!
HRH is 93 and clearly showing her age physically but there is no evidence in the public domain, to my knowledge, that her mental faculties are deteriorating, if they are then that should not be covered up and major questions regarding her position and role become urgent. At least her husband ‘retired’ eventually.
Her successive Tory Govs have shown only increasing contempt for the elderly and vulnerable in society at large, someone in a position of such overall personal security and power should not be immune to criticism for their role and actions that affect every one of her subjects lives.
Your lack of proportion seem to be spiralling out of control, Joseph.
It is what it was always going to be in terms of how things work within the constitutional framework such as it is. As said, the remedy isn’t Brenda. Would you want her to be the arbiter of a Labour government’s actions?
It’s the current court action that is the way forward.
There’s nothing ‘socialist’ in barking at passing traffic.
People need to understand that she and her family are not on their side. Why would they be when they are among the elitest of the elite.
Their power is stolen, not given.
One wealthy, over-privileged, completely unaccountable family has no place having unequal power in a democracy.
We need to completely separate them from any influence over government. We need to remove their power, their money and their privilege and put them up in a council estate in Hackney. If there are any council houses left there.
Rarley do I criticise squawky but what constitution….?and did it ever cross the minds of the writter that the perfectly obvious that the number 1 suspect and head of the Establishment the bleeding obvious Queen sat down….or stood up with her privy council and plotted to bring down parliament with her unelected like herself priminister Johnson.Very disappointed to see pushing of fake news and Royal propoganda to excuse the main plotter the Royals in this coup.Will Squawky go along with this if Corbyn has an accident,because thats the next move if the coup does not work……again very disappointed!
Before getting excited over this as an ‘*establishment* coup’, to fit a pre-conceived framework, it is worth having a look at the actual situation.
… which is that the nexus of capital and rent is as split over Brexit as is the country as a whole, with a flabby, lying chancer calling the shots from the side that he quite cynically chose.
It’s amusing that those who have championed Brexit as a disruptive challenge to the establishment or ‘elite’ have now labelled their love affair as an creature of that establishment.
Make up your mind.
… or simply get real about the way things actually work in this sphere.
That much isn’t about the politics of ‘socialist analysis’ – it’s about the real world of money and power..
Yes, it’s reminiscent of just blaming Blair for the WMD Big Lie, so as to lead the ‘proles’ to think/believe it was all down to just him, when it fact it was concocted and contrived by the Establishment (so as to get the majority of the general public on-side).
Allan Howard presenting a false premise to dilute Blair’s guilt. Blairites, yes, there are still plenty of them around!
Is that really the best you can come up with Jack! It’s beyond pathetic!!!
It’s short and to the point Allan, unlike your verbose nonsense.
Craig Murray’s got carried away on this one.
What he writes is not untrue. Just the least likely.
If Brenda can be accused of a fault, then it’s playing for safety as far as the monarchy is concerned, and not rocking the boat.
RH…your lack of proportion,seems to be spiralling out of control,and barking at passing traffic is not socialism?.oops?Well I assume then after deciphering your riddles that I have been driven insane.Maybe I should get up earlier to bark at more traffic….Ps HRH has decided that after discussions with god…she’s not sure she signed the document using the Royal prerogative granted by god…..maybe she talks in riddles and blames God?…….A trip to the funny farm for both of us then!
‘god’? – the original idealisation of monarchy. Mmmm …
No – stop trying to fit all your political luggage into the same old small cabin bag, and check in to actuality. This really isn’t about the monarchy, and it’s quite likely that Brenda actually despises the lying turd who claims to be PM as much as most of us.
I know SteveH posted a link to the petition yesterday, but just in case anyone missed it, here it is again (there are currently about 250 people a minute signing it):
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157
And exactly what will be done about it?
Absolutely flaming nothing!
The Clown and his Clownlings slap each other on the back, bellowing with laughter, celebrating the jolly jape of outfoxing everyone. The puerile arrogance of these “men” is frankly insulting and shows how morally bankrupt they are. “Conning” “an elderly woman” into shouldering the “blame” for doing their bidding goes beyond the pale.
No…..working with an elderly woman and her privy council to prop up a failing establishment that shes the leader of.And loony tune stop grovling to Royals .remember this is the 21st century
Oh yes the privvy council… another archaic entity select members of which (Mogg is entitled I assume as he was appointed Lord President in July 2019) attended HRH with Johnson to prorogue parliament.
Being honest I have no idea what its role is supposed to be but it can obviously be used as a political tool.
A visit to its web site doesn’t enlighten me much and was thoroughly boring. I just went back to look and the prorogation of parliament has popped up. Two new members of privvy council also appointed.
https://privycouncil.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/2019-08-28-List-of-Business-2.pdf
Maria…..excellent link…..Privy council are a dangerous unelected parliament for the Queen and the establishment to rule from…..remember Jeremy Corbyn who knows the system better than me,and was forced to attend the queens court about the same time of the first chicken coup?…..You will find nothing about the privey council….but it represents a parliament outside of our scrutiny…..The old ian paisley chaired the council for some time,after ranting to the European council that they represented the Anti Christ,and it was all a popish plot by the Anti Christ the pope to take over the UK for the devil…..I know it all sounds impossible,but thats the standard the privy council represent…..and thats the reward paisley was given for ethnic cleansing of Belfast and Derry….Privey council!….and now we have the so called Catholic mogg chairing for the lunatics in charge of the asylum!…you couldn’t make it up but thats the right wing establishment ruling from the 1600S…?
I think that the whole issue of a no deal Brexit including the suspension of parliament to facilitate a no deal Brexit,all the constitutional issues that arise and finally the chaos that will result from a no deal Brexit will put the Tories out of power for the foreseeable future.
Boris Johnson is fully aware of this yet is hell bent of exiting the Eu without a deal. Why? Because as an exPM he stands to make millions from “advisory” roles across the world, directorships at home and abroad etc Tony Blair made millions once he left Downing St and so will Boris Johnson. That I think has always been Johnson’s motivation ( and Blair’s too)
Boris is playing with fire🔥ie the biggest firm on the planet.
Off with his head! 💀
Will we ever learn to stop grovilling to the establishment and the head of state the Queen and all her treacherous family.Why give her a get out of jail for proping up the establishment and everything she represents.Do you realy think she cares for the Working class whom she despises and fears like all of the disgusting establishment she represents.We are democratic socialist,not subjects and this is the 21st century,…not the 1600s.Lets get real and get rid of all these parasites sucking the lifeblood of our country…..You do not need to be subservient! or act like cap doffing peasents anymore!
Just WHO exactly is ‘grovelling’ and ‘doffing their caps’ Joseph. No-one, of course, but don’t let that stop you from doing your OTT hyperbollocks rant!
Joseph, this is the spirit and determination we need to stand by Corbyn:
Jack T….Thanks for that…its very uplifting to see how the french dealt with the Royalty and the establishment and thats why I spend most of my time there in a small farmhouse working the land…back to my roots….shame about macron but he will not defeat the republic because the french will not bow down to royalty or church….they have learned the lessons of history….the brits havnt…This farm I live in has been in my familys possession since the OKEEFE clan fled Ireland after the battle of the boyne and all the land and dromagh castle in West cork was stripped from them……..so in many respects the fight with the establishment is an onward fight that stretches over centurys……and corbyn is the light at the end of the tunnel
Yes, quite right too, Jack, instead of criticising him every chance you both get (along with one or two comrades) for not ‘fighting back’ against the anti-semitism smears/smearers, when you know full well that to do so is – and has been when attempted – counter-productive.
Oh, well, at least you seem to have given it a break of recent!
PS And I must say I’m impressed by the manipulation of the ‘Likes’ by the im-posters! Clever stuff, albeit rather blatantly obvious!
Allan Howard’s version of support:-
https://giphy.com/gifs/e1Lv6Gvd8bFFC/html5
The following Telegraph article (which ISN’T behind a paywall) is very interesting. I mean why would you have to keep it all so top secret and hush-hush if it was just so his government can lay out their agenda for the parliamentary session:
It was supposed to be the most secret of Government missions as Jacob Rees-Mogg boarded a British Airways flight to Aberdeen at 8.45am on Wednesday.
Together with Baroness Evans, the Leader of the Lords, and Mark Spencer, the Chief Whip, he was leading a Privy Council delegation to Balmoral, with instructions to ask the Queen to prorogue Parliament.
Downing Street was so determined to keep their errand under wraps that Mr Rees-Mogg, the most recognisable of the trio, travelled separately in order to minimise the chances of fellow passengers working out what was going on.
(Ends)
And as if they’d all jump on a plane to go and see the Queen at Balmoral without her knowing in advance what it was all about! It’s too absurd for words! And yet in the article it says that Boris Johnson had to……… Well, it’s just simpler if you read the article!
https://premium.telegraph.co.uk/newsletter/article1/how-jacob-rees-mogg-had-cover-blown-during-secret-trip-to-ask-queen-to-prorogue-parliament/
Allan……you seem to be confirming what I have said,not just Johnson but the Queen and the establishment with the privy council deciding to use the Royal prerogative to dismiss parliament……You really do need to get the evidence correct or shut up,and just do what you are good at researching?Its becoming increasingly sinister just how far the establishment and the head of the state will go to prove who runs this country and ignoring evidence in your face seems to be a trait of the pretend Socialists….Corbyn must be very frightened when he realises even those around him can’t be trusted to push through a Socialist agenda when they automatically bow to the Royals and their establishment…..becoming increasingly depressed with the some of the collaborators!
Oh, it’s Joseph again doing his patronising number yet again, and conjured up out of thin air like the good little propagandist shill that he is. But, pray, do tell, what ‘evidence’ was that (that I got wrong) – ie who exactly, around Jeremy, is ‘automatically’ bowing to the royals and their establishment?
We are facing Neo-Liberal Tory Barbarians but the danger is Pro-Remainers may fall for the Tory Trap and push their cause to be thus labelled sore Remain losers, but the priority is to fight for democracy – Leavers and Remainers should for now unite on this to get power back to MPs and Parliament and not Barbarian Johnson’s majority of one, his own vote!
In the end one argument will prevail but as long as there has been debate and democracy we will all have to accept the outcome, perhaps this is what makes us great UK citizens but there is so much bitterness out there on this issue, just see the vitriol for example on the BBC News comments website.
I know I may be a minority socialist In Labour (who reluctantly voted Remain to try to break Neo-Liberalism in the EC) but I accept the result and after further socialist analysis now support Leave.
But the priority is to defend democracy, be wary of the Tory Trap!
Exactly Bazza and solidarity in the fight for democracy in Britain!
Agreed. Time for another referendum 🙂
It does seem a remarkable coincidence that Wallace just happened to be standing directly in front of a camera that just happened to have the mic left on! And of COURSE the Queen knew in advance what was planned and was complicit in it, but they obviously all agreed that it wouldn’t reflect very well on her and the royal family if that was seen to be the case, so they decided to spin the story in such a way as she had no choice but to agree to it and/or that she was misled…….
Allan puts the evidence together on Wallace and I agree with him….perfecly obvious that this coup against democracy is not down to one individual Johnson,but a planned concerted effort to establish who runs the country ….At the moment its looking like the Queen,privey council Johnson and the Tory establishment verses jerremy Corbyn and the people of Britain……Who will win this first salvo….?We work better united together in socialism and I sincerely mean Solidarity..comrades
He’s the defence secretary….And he ‘spills the beans’ to the first woman to bat her eyelids at him?
Dear God, those commies don’t need computer hackers…
Occam’s fucking razor.
Use it. This speculation needs a shave.
To reverse the dictum : Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to really get you. Which doesn’t contradict the general known situation about the workings of ownership and privilege. But you don’t need it in this case.
We’ll have ‘Queen seen drinking in Wetherspoons with Tim Martin and Dominic Cummings’ soon at this rate.
As a more relevant focus, the Groan actually has a useful article detailing ‘before’ and ‘after’ statements by cabinet ministers. If it wasn’t so serious, it would be quite funny in the light of all the general bullshit about wanting politicians who are ‘authentic’.
This lot are certainly that. Authentic liars that the Great British Public voted for. :
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/29/then-and-now-what-senior-tories-say-about-proroguing-parliament
“This lot are certainly that. Authentic liars that the Great British Public voted for. :”
This is true but the system as a whole, especially the party systems, ensure that such people get elected.
You continually denigrate the public for voting the ‘wrong way’ as if they are the root of the problem… what are you advocating?
As I have tried to make clear I believe the problem is systemic with a tightly managed facade of ‘democracy’ in the form of a vote. The public deeply and aggressively propagandised, mislead, lied to, promised falsehoods for votes, fed exceptionalist and other narratives to shepherd them into certain opinions, views and beliefs for months, years, decades, even centuries etc. etc. etc.
“You continually denigrate the public for voting the ‘wrong way’ ”
No,Maria. I denigrate the large minority that got led by the nose over Brexit. As you say “The public deeply and aggressively propagandised,” And falling for it is no virtue. As I’ve constantly said – there’s no wisdom in crowds.
… and there’s nothing left wing about acceding to gullible ignorance. If you notice, the majority of the public support the monarchy, too – and my guess is that there’s a strong overlap between the groups that (a) voted for Brexit (b) like the monarchy and (c) reckon that Boris is the right man for the job.(Just for starters) and (d) reckon that ‘benefit scroungers’ deserve all they get and (e) read the propaganda.
Sheep get shorn.
If you worship what passes for ‘public opinion’ without qualification, you let yourself in for all sorts of inconsistencies.
“If you worship what passes for ‘public opinion’ without qualification, you let yourself in for all sorts of inconsistencies.”
I “worship” nothing especially nothing or anyone in the political and increasingly politicalized spheres.
So the public who voted in a Referendum a way you don’t agree with are sheep and other derogatory adjectives that have been thrown at them for years, are just a small section “led by the nose” and the system would work fine if everyone had been ‘informed’ like you and voted your way?
I really do not see how dismissing !.7 million people many of which I expect voted based on their decades long falling living standards, decline in local public facilities and infrastructure and increasingly humiliating and punitive and state security ‘safety’ net systems, health care etc etc. as defacto mindless sheep is helpful to your cause that appears to be an obsession with you.
Oh well each to their own hobby horse but I’m long done with discussing EURef result. To me as long as we have the current political, economic and financial systems nothing will change the ‘commodification of everything for profit’ march in or out of a club with an unelected council under intense lobbying and unelected Central bank calling the shots.
I take the view that a major problem is more easily addressed in smaller chunks but I do not expect you to agree with me.
Maria, doesn’t the fact that a majority regularly vote Tory give you pause?
To me that’s conclusive.
People need education to make intelligent choices. Those with least make poor choices in life as well as in politics.
The worst choices are made by the young, the uneducated and the drunk.
“I really do not see how dismissing 1.7 million people many of which I expect voted based on their decades long falling living standards, decline in local public facilities”
Maria – that’s the Brexit fallacy. The two things are unrelated, except by a sense of discontent, funneled and misdirected by the propagandised media. Bluntly – you have to be a bit of a sucker to believe it.
I’m also not ‘dismissing’ 1.7m people. I’m dismissing the brainwashing that they suffered and an incredibly dim idea – now coming home to roost. That’s the real victimhood (being sold snake-oil) – not the phony version promulgated by the Bullshit Bankers of Brexit like Rees-Mogg.
And make no mistake – the conservative voting of the victims of Tory policies (foot-shooting) is a well-known phenomenon – to such an extent that there are now about as many working class Tory voters as Labour supporters.
Test question : Are Tory voters right. and not to be challenged, when there’s more of them?
As an addendum, David – whilst I’m mostly in agreement a political analysis doesn’t substantiate that “The worst choices are made by the young” ! It’s the old farts who crowd the Brexit Titanic, drilling holes to let the water out.
David I have already made the point about the importance of education to you along with the left being largely unsuccessful in its efforts to get its fundamental messages across and I do believe it has an education role.
You are now conflating GEs with EURef that RH took pains to separate without commenting on GE results.
For me the same mechanisms are at work in every UK election and Referendum so my arguments about the corrupted system and propaganda etc. apply to all not just ones where I don’t like or agree with the result
I have no real idea of how big a scale manipulation of the election process itself factors into all results.
An educated, engaged and informed public is vital for democracy and I don’t believe the UK has one, just a few politically ‘educated’ with their own, often unclear agenda, so we are where we are… I don’t agree about Remain but I have never insulted or demeaned Remain voters, you see things differently to me and I accept that, I object to some of the Remainers tactics though.
In the end less and less people see any point in voting as nothing is improving for decades now, I thinks there is a big ‘what’s the point they’re all the same’ attitude which is completely understandable because since Thatcher we have had two sides of the same political and ideological coin. People are exhausted mentally and physically from day to day struggles and worries and of course distractions come into play which leads to escape from worry and increased disengagement.
I expect most LP members were ecstatic when Blair was elected… all sectors of the public and politically ‘educated’ are open to political deception and tunnel vision especially when they feel strongly about something.
“Maria – that’s the Brexit fallacy. The two things are unrelated, except by a sense of discontent, funneled and misdirected by the propagandised media. Bluntly – you have to be a bit of a sucker to believe it.”
You have lost me on that point RH but then as you point out from your perspective I must be a bit of a sucker based on one paragraph on a comment section so you wont be surprised I don’t get your point.
I don’t have the interest or inclination to get dragged into the Brexit/Remain divisive morass. I haven’t changed my view on EU in three years of reading arguments, evidence and oceans of insults directed at my choice of how to vote. That’s my final word in this exchange.
Maria, what you don’t appear to be willing to recognise is that PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO CHANGE THEIR MIND when they reconsider the basis upon which they made a decision, particularly if they think information which they were given was dishonest.
Oh for heavens sake, the same members of this Remain obsession are just a pain in the behind at times when working in packs.
Jack T,
“Maria, what you don’t appear to be willing to recognise is that PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO CHANGE THEIR MIND”
“don’t appear” is the bais of your assumption… that is all it is an assumption through your biassed lens. you are completely wrong.
That really is my last word on this discussion no matter who comments next and what they assume about me.
Maria, I was trying to be kind in case I’d missed it but just in case, before you disappear, do you agree that people who voted either way in the referendum have a right to change their mind? If indeed they have done in sufficient numbers, wouldn’t it be right to take that into account before we jump ship?
“Remain obsession”
I do admit to a predilection for rationality, sanity and contact with the living.
Call it an ‘obsession’ – I’m not offended.
Maria, I’ve never conflated GE’s with the brexit referendum.
I’ve never deviated from my view that the results are unrelated.
I’ve also consistently rejected the common view that EU, local or by-elections foretell GE results.
to say they have suddenly found them selves with no majority and a coalition is a be more of their lies they have been in coalition for the best part of 9 years .
Who would have thought it?
Someone even more useless than Gavin Williamson!
No Deal and No Brexit are side shows, neither has a snowball’s
The big question is what does Cummings and his glove puppet do about the Brexit party,
I think we need to accept they hate each other, they have previous,
Therefore we can discount a deal but equally only No Deal gets rid of Brexit party
My money is going on us falling out 1st November followed by a GE
If I was JC I would give centrists more than enough rope to hang themselves, including allowing Ken Clark to front a caretaker government
Least we will get is a plastic version of Labour brexit followed by GE
Option one is better for us as we would go to the polls amid the mother of all economic meltdowns
Common thread throughout all of this cheap and nasty Tory party shitfest is it makes JC look like a genius,
Cockwombles have played a binary game, only JC has consistently done what was in the best interests of the country
Doug I see your lodgic,but their is no guarantee that the economy will tank,or if it does the Torys will almost certainly massage the figures and do what they do best….blame Labour…remember how successful they were with making Labour own the world financial crash….I would not want to risk an election on publication of a downturn in the economy.Why would you expect them to play by unwritten rules,surely the last few days must warn you of how ruthless this Tory regime is?but your comments are thought provoking and we will find out soon what’s the future of Britain?
Joseph
Twas Ken Clark who described those in power this week as no more than a bunch of far right English Nationalists,
This particular psychodrama has lasted 40 years or more and will lead to a quantum change in political landscape,
What I would like to see is Brexit party complete reverse takeover of cheap and nasties
Followed by centrist piss pot the Lib Dems taking ours and Tories Cockwombles
We are by far the stronger and clear cut choice for majority of people who just want Brexit over with and progress in the economy and improvements in our public services
Sounds good to me
Regards
Doug…I think we broadly agree,just hope that the public can grasp the chance to save the country from the carpetbagers…solidarity
” their is no guarantee that the economy will tank”
… or that the sun will rise tomorrow. But it did today, and the economy also descended a notch.
RH….The 🌞sun rises every day….even in the rainy season,but can be depressing day after day night and day..,non stop rain..I have been ranting regarding the Royals and the establishment,but trying to fight dengue fever at the same time as watching Johnson and co ride roughshod over democracy would be enough to trip my switch and cause ranting…..The debate remain civilized,and I do like to have an occasional laugh even in these troubled times….,The economy will descend even more unless we begin rebuilding industry..finance alone will not provide the infrastructure required to rebuild a decaying country .brexit or not any fool can see that the country produce nothing but Arms and financial services…….And life goes on beyond this brexit mess..!but rebuilding industry must be a priority for Labour!
Why I’m ready to occupy parliament to stop the coup
Clive Lewis
Things are happening in Britain. An unelected Prime Minister has asked an unelected head of state to shut down parliament so that no one prevents him from delivering his agenda. The Queen said ‘yes’ and normal legislative processes are about to be suspended.
If this happened anywhere else (Turkey perhaps? Or Hungary?) our government would most likely be quick to condemn it as an assault on parliamentary sovereignty. When it’s happening in the UK, the Prime Minister has the cheek to pretend he’s acting in the name of democracy.
We simply cannot let Boris Johnson get away with this. When basic democratic norms are undermined, it gives a green light to anti-democratic extremists to not play by the rules either. It then becomes a race to the bottom. This is how democracy is undermined and the rot sets in.
On Wednesday, I tweeted that if Boris Johnson suspends parliament, they’ll will have to drag me out of the chamber. This wasn’t an empty threat posted in the heat of the moment – I meant it. Multiple colleagues have told me they are prepared to do the same.
We will not be stopped from doing our job, which is to represent the people who elected us. We will not stand by and watch as the Prime Minister singlehandedly drives our country off a no deal cliff, in full knowledge that it would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs and risk food and medicine shortages. We will not let this cabinet sign off our rights, our planet and our NHS to a trade deal with Trump.
https://labourlist.org/2019/08/why-im-ready-to-occupy-parliament-to-stop-the-coup/
The Queen has been advised by the privy council via mogg that the Peasants are Revolting……The Queen advises that after studying the royal prerogative granted by god…..HRH decides they are Revolting
Do you think we have a plan for referendum on the future of the Monarchy once Betty goes,
Can we play it by the rules next time, unless there is 65% plus in favour of Prince Charles taking over we should then ask William if he prefers privacy and family to the Pantomime that is royal duties, make sure all their palms are covered in gold,
Then what
Doug 30/08/2019 at 4:54 pm · ·
Can we play it by the rules next time, unless there is 65% plus in favour of Prince Charles taking over
If we are playing by the rules (as you put it) then it would require a ‘super majority’ to deviate from the status-quo of Charles becoming the monarch.
Steve…do we believe him…I think it’s time to test their metal…..I need to see them being forcibly ejected from parliament ….solidarity Clive?
Joseph OKEEFE 30/08/2019 at 4:47 pm
Steve…do we believe him
I don’t see any reason not to, the opinions he has expressed on Brexit have been quite consistent.
Then hats off to clive Lewes,lets get behind him and phone ☎ e mail mps to see how many mps will join up….I will phone Russell moyle and R H can deal with the lib dems….Who’s providing the superglue,marbles Chains and padlocks,bottles oiley rags….?sandbags supplied by Allan?I I will get there early and do the barking !…….it actually could work with strategic support and a big turnout!
I see that the un-elected Cummings is consolidating his power base.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/30/sajid-javid-was-not-told-in-advance-of-advisers-sacking-by-cummings
Sonia Khan, Javid’s media adviser, was escorted from No 10 by a police officer after being accused of misleading Cummings over her contact with individuals close to the former chancellor Philip Hammond, who has been trying to block a no-deal Brexit.
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Khan was the second adviser working for Javid to be sacked by No 10, leading to suggestions that Javid is becoming increasingly isolated from the core of the Johnson regime.
You’d think they’d leave a decent interval between Javid snitching on them over Islamophobia and his punishment – so it wouldn’t be quite so obvious he was being deliberately undermined with this hatchet job.
It’s getting like the Night of the Long Knives.
David…..they are enforcing rigid discipline going into an election… Whilst our deputy leadership runs round with Swansong funding court cases running into hundreds of thousands and more ,…. suddenly flush with money andsupporting joint ventures sidlining the Labour party.!Would Johnson allow himself to be undermined by a bought deputy leader…I doubt it and neither should we.I suppose going into an election we have to work with the hand we are dealt,but again extremely frustrating whilst one of our most stalwart politicians Chris Williamson cannot use the Labour party brand and is still suspended for the election!
Joseph OKEEFE 30/08/2019 at 11:53 pm
The situations that you describe are not really comparable because Boris gets to choose and appoint his own deputy but Corbyn is stuck with Tom Watson because he was elected to office by the membership. Like it or not Watson has his own mandate until he’s challenged for his job.
Please follow the link and read the article in full.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/this-is-an-anti-parliamentary-coup-and-an-internationally-organised-one/
This is an anti-parliamentary coup – and an internationally-organised one. For Trump, No Deal is imperative; a key step towards a vassal Britain, subject to his rules on everything from health to cars to food.
Diane Abbott 30 August 2019
Around the world, coups are normally international events. Short of war they have been a preferred mechanism to achieve what has become known as ‘regime change’. And the last time there was a successful coup in this country in 1688 that too was an international affair, with Mary and William of Orange being installed as a monarchy. That was a coup by parliament against an over-bearing monarchy.
The current situation is quite different. We are living through a coup against parliament by a minority of parliamentarians, who have seized control of the Tory party from the right. They intend to impose their will against the majority of elected representatives and against the will of the public.
They are able to attempt this because this too is an international affair. Boris Johnson hopes to prolong his premiership but crashing this country out of the EU with a No Deal Brexit. But the key beneficiary of this project is Donald Trump and the interests he represents, and the project has his full backing.
Any significant agreement with the EU would necessarily include some degree of alignment with European rules and tariffs. They are not going to formulate an entirely new set of rules and tariffs simply to accommodate us – any more than the US will. For Trump, No Deal is imperative.
The effect of those US rules and tariffs are truly frightening………………………
A funny thought occurred to me a couple of years ago but I forgot… I think Trump might try to blackmail the UK into driving on the right.
Yeah, I know – ridiculous.
I see it being spun that in return for the huge, generous new US ‘investment’ in our failing infrastructure (NHS, steel, fracking, coal etc.) and in our failing car industry we must open all our markets to all US manufacturers including cars – then we can also benefit from exporting cars to the US.
Just like Mexico does.
For the sake of profit, productivity and reducing MMGW-causing waste we must obviously rationalise production into left hand drive only.
They can easily make whatever trade deals we’re most desperate for conditional upon us switching – they can argue that other nations have done it virtually overnight so what’s the big deal?
We’ll also be forced into the other stuff we already know about like chlorinated chicken, GM foods and shale gas shipped in tankers from the US – which will isolate Russia even further.
Win win for the US.
Outside the EU we’ll be an easy mark.
On Cummungs – I note how little attention has been given to the fact that he’s got a pass to parliament and No. 10.
I would have thought that someone who has been held in contempt of parliament would automatically be excluded from clearance for such privileges.
But there seems to have been no taking off of gloves on this score.
Momentum have a new film out
IS THIS HOW FASCISM STARTS
https://www.facebook.com/PeoplesMomentum/videos/546502619425744/
Steve….thanks for the links…very educational apart from Abbots veiw on parliamentary coup on overburdening monarchy.,by a foreign army.My understanding and most historians would be that the king was defeated by a foreign protestant army by a collaboration of a protestant parliament with the Dutch……german house of orange.Basically a religious coup!I am surprised Diane Abbott should need an history lesson with all her Oxbridge education?,she seeks to give parliament an higher moral compass than mere religious fanaticism?
Abbot’s summary – if brief – is quite accurate. It might not have been the ‘Glorious Revolution’ that is touted, but it was a move in the right direction to get shot of a monarch in the return to the line of the cult of the Stuarts linked to the Vatican.
What I could never work out is why Scotland makes such a romantic fuss over the dead rising again in the form of an effite Italian called Charlie. You need to pick your champions.
The most shocking link by Steve..above was the Government told this man he needs to work….A dying emaciated old man who was little more than a skeleton……The sheer evil of the Tory government…breathtaking in its cruelty using our social security system to murder the working classes….thanks again to Steve.This shows clearly why we have to get a Labour government and one led by Jeremy Corbyn!.. After viewing that inocent sick old man we can’t take a risk on any other leader.Jeremy Corbyn will get the job done
Boris continues to trash democracy
It’s another step into dictatorship – and it makes the Labour de-selection row look pale in comparison.
Boris Johnson has said any Conservative MP who votes against his plan for a “no deal” Brexit on October 31 will be barred from standing as a Tory candidate in the next general election.
He’s saying he will end their careers if they do what they think is right for the country.
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2019/08/31/coercion-now-dictator-johnson-is-saying-tory-rebels-will-be-barred-from-being-election-candidates/
Craig Murray expresses a very forthright opinion on this.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/08/the-queens-active-role-in-the-right-wing-coup/
The Queen’s Active Role in the Right Wing Coup 641
29 Aug, 2019
Our obsequious media is actively perpetuating the myth that the monarch can do no wrong, and is apolitical. In fact the monarchy has been active and absolutely central to the seizure of power from the Westminster parliament in a right wing coup. Yesterday’s collaboration at Balmoral between the Queen and Jacob Rees Mogg is only the latest phase.