Thornberry emerges on side of Watson in BBC appearance – and as potential challenger

Shadow Foreign Secretary went ‘full ultra’, wrongly claimed Labour NEC makes policy – and named by Campbell alongside Watson
Emily Thornberry on BBC News on Sunday night

Emily Thornberry has emerged as a figurehead for the tactics underpinning the latest Labour right coup attempt – and has been tipped as the right’s potential choice to challenge Jeremy Corbyn for the party’s leadership – after ignoring Labour policy and collective responsibility to go ‘full referendum’ on the BBC News channel late on Sunday night.

Ms Thornberry launched straight into a pitch for a full Labour pivot to a pro-referendum stance when she appeared on the channel as a Labour representative:

MP after Labour MP had come out firmly on social media to push Labour’s justified position that the party is trying to do the best for both remainers and leavers, making Thornberry’s abandonment of collective responsibility stand out all the more. And at least one NEC (National Executive Committee) member went public with her disappointment:

Thornberry was also inaccurate in claiming that Labour’s NEC decided the party’s policy. Every Labour MP knows that the party’s conference decided Labour’s Brexit policy, not the NEC.

Perhaps surprisingly, it was left to centrist Stephen Kinnock to talk some sense to the BBC in interpreting the evening’s results when he appeared on the same programme a little later:

Arch-remainer Alastair Campbell named-checked Thornberry in the same breath as Watson during his predictable insistence that the evening’s results proved Labour should go full-remain, in spite of the huge results fot the Brexit party in Labour’s heartlands.

A senior Labour source told the SKWAWKBOX:

After tonight, don’t be shocked if Emily emerges as the coup candidate for a leadership challenge. They hope going full remain will drive a wedge between Jeremy and the members, but it just shows how detached from reality they are.

Ms Thornberry could not be reached for comment.

SKWAWKBOX view:

Emily Thornberry has for some time been part of the pro-referendum narrative that has damaged Labour in the proxy-referendum that the Euro elections have represented – and on Sunday night she cast off any remnants of nuance.

Whether the prediction of a leadership challenge turns out to be correct remains to be seen, but her actions tonight have put her on the wrong side – and not just of the Brexit issue.

Labour must drop all notion of a referendum and refuse to be manoeuvred or threatened into a position that would cause huge losses in the leave-supporting north and Wales.

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121 responses to “Thornberry emerges on side of Watson in BBC appearance – and as potential challenger

  1. Thornberry emerges on side of the the majority of Labour supporters in BBC appearance

    • Just so the reader knows (which they probably already do) SteveH probably isn’t a Labour Party member, he is most probably a Liberal Democrat agitator.

      His party stood on a proEU platform at the general election. They lost more than 300 deposits, recording their lowest vote share since 1959.

      Steve wants us to make that same mistake to damage the Labour vote. He is inciting electorally suicidal members to crash the party into a wall made up of 17.4 million leave votes. No party goes up against the largest mandate in a country’s history and survives.

      Any fool knows that. We would be wiped out, just like the Lib Dems were at the last general election standing on a remain prospectus.

      • Internal Affairs 27/05/2019 at 2:00 am

        “Just so the reader knows ……. SteveH probably isn’t a Labour Party member, he is most probably a Liberal Democrat agitator.”

        What you mean like you are a BREXIT agitator. How f…ing desperate do you look.

      • I voted to remain. The difference between you and I is that I am a democratic socialist so I accept the result, you don’t, therefore you are not a democrat.

        I am not sure what you are politically. You would probably claim to be a social democrat but as you don’t accept ballot results you forfeit the right to call yourself a democrat.

        So technically I suppose the most accurate definition of you politically would be to call you a social crypto fascist.

      • Internal Affairs 27/05/2019 at 3:15 am · ·

        “So technically I suppose the most accurate definition of you politically would be to call you a social crypto fascist.”

        Says the guy who sits on the same side of the fence as Farage. Is that really the best you could come up with.

        The difference between us is that I can recognise what is a far right neoliberal project and I stick to my principles and haven’t capitulated at the first hurdle.

        The whole thing is turning into a dystopian farce. We have the Brexiteers who having won what could at best described as a marginal victory but after 3 years still can’t decide what Brexit means.

        The word won is also a bit of a misnomer when the High Court received literally thousands of petitions (applications) to void the result because of proven illegality but unfortunately the Supreme Court had to declare that it was unable to rule on it because the referendum was only advisory and therefor a political and not a legal decision.

        Yet we have idiots like you trying to insist that we leave the EU on indeterminate terms on the basis of a narrow majority in a referendum that would have been voided by the Supreme Court if it had possessed any legal standing. Your having a laugh,

        There is only one reason the Brexiteers are petrified by the thought of a Confirmatory Vote.

      • Remain parties got 40% of the vote, leave parties got 35%. Face facts the country has changed its mind…

      • Just so, Internal Affairs. All five of the constant pro PV, pro Remain Trolls on here have only one aim, to assist the well-funded Blair Mandelson mission to split the Party’s , often politically naïve, Corbyn-supporting , membership, and get Labour to adopt a suicidal pro Remain position, and lose Labour the next General election, Then the careerist, corrupt, Labour Right and Centre can “get their Party back – for business as usual”, Unfortunately there is no Blair-era “business as usual” for centrist neoliberal parties – just electoral collapse – as the fate of Blairite type neoliberal centrist parties cross Europe shows clearly.

      • Remain parties got 40% of the vote, leave parties got 35%. Face facts the country has changed its mind…

        On HOW BIG a turnout?

      • Holding a ‘Leave’ standpoint is one thing – after all, a third of the country decided to do that some years ago before we were better informed.

        But the sheer barminess of some of the views here attached to that position really is something to behold – calling the majority of the Party and voters ‘Liberal Democrats’ or ‘crypto-fascists’ or ‘Remain ultras’ or ‘trolls’ or … or … or … whatever is fashionable in the little shady fringe of the playground.

        Doh!

        The 14% support shown in the EU elections will be the future if that barmy image gets wider publicity than in this small corner of the world.

      • Internal Affairs, I don’t know why you bother arguing with steveH. When i see he has commented I just skip straight past it. Never see what he is posting.

      • IA, Steve, I’ve realised what these constant unevidenced and ridiculous assertions remind me of. The antisemitism smears. The logic is the same; ‘I don’t like the strength of your argument so I’ll question your motives and accuse you of something unacceptable’.
        Now, this sort of accusation is clearly on a different planet to the antisemitism smearers; I don’t want to make too much of it. However, IA if everyone you disagree with is a LibDem then how do you recognise a real opponent?

    • Let’s all take a few moments of reflection, and think of poor “Lord”Adonis !😂😂😂😂

  2. Just wake up and have a sniff, Skwawkbox. It’s the stupid f.ing policy that is undermining Corbyn, not Thornberry, Watson – or whoever is the latest diversion from that hard reality. Policy needs to align with the *real* ‘Remain’ support base rather than the mythical one.

    … and the wittering about ‘compromise’ has to be ditched. It’s illiterate and innumerate to think that you can compromise on a binary choice. You’re either on the Tory/Brexit/ERG/UKIP side; or you’re not.

    Make up the mind time.

    • ‘Binary’ thinking is what has led to the impasse over Brexit. What is over-ridingly important is what is in the interests of the majority of people, those who have no share in ownership of the means of production and are obliged to sell their labour, be it by hand, brain or a combination of both, to an employer.

      Membership of the neo-liberal EU, with its dictatorial Commission is not in their interests, but neither is a ‘no deal’ Brexit that threatens jobs and security.

      It is therefore imperative to find a way forward that does not embrace these two equally untenable options, whatever you care to call it. Labour have managed to negotiate the outline of a plan for Brexit that will retain a full customs union. This plan is by no means perfect and negotiators on the UK side will have to ensure that the electorate’s sovereignty over matters of domestic policy is not compromised, but it is a start. It can progress only after a General Election resulting in a Labour or Labour-majority government.

      Stuff a second referendum – it will only widen divisions. A GE is an absolute must. We have a government nominally in office that has no legitimacy or power. Its leader has resigned and a feral battle has commenced between diverse Tory vultures vying for her job. What hope have they of attending to any of the many burning issues of the day (assuming they have the will to do so) whilst this is going on. General Election now!

      • Sorry Redveg – but your comments actually confirm the binary nature of the issue. In or Out. Fence up arse is the ‘compromise’.

      • Redveg. Binary thinking is exactly what was needed, i.e. is the UK better off in or out of the EU? I have always described the half in half out policy as the one wrist policy – compromise and only cut one wrist.

    • Yes, Tories hit because no clear plan on how to achieve their aim, we’ve been hit because, unless you’ve read the conference motion, you don’t know our position.

    • When the referendum result was split nearly 50/50, when 17.4 million people wanted to leave in 2016 and tonight’s results indicate that a large number still want to leave, while a similarly large number of others want to remain,how can you reconcile the two without compromise.
      We promised to to honour the result of the referendum – that was a manifesto pledge and was the position determined at conference .The compromise was a soft Brexit which all but the hardliners on both sides could live with, failing which we would seek a General Election, failing which we would seek a 2nd referendum.
      My view is that if parliament can’t agree a compromise deal the only way out of the Brexit mess is a General Election. A second referendum would probably give us an almost 50/50 split again and so we would be no further on.

      • smartboy 27/05/2019 at 2:37 am

        “We promised to to honour the result of the referendum – that was a manifesto pledge and was the position determined at conference

        Well smartboy, in that case you’ll have absolutely no problem giving me a direct quote from the 2017 manifesto and the 2018 conference motion to back up your claim.

        I look forward to reading your reply. 😏

      • smartboy 27/05/2019 at 12:26 pm

        “Look it up yourself – its there in black and white”

        No it isn’t
        It’s a little disappointing that you don’t have the moral courage to fess-up to your mistakes.

      • It’s a little disappointing that you don’t have the moral courage to fess-up to your mistakes.

        SAYS THE TOTAL SHITBAG THAT REFUSES TO ANSWER ANYONE’S QUESTIONS

    • I’d urge you to have a butchers at this blogpost, which has some useful things to say about the self-defeating basis of this sort of black/white thinking over Brexit (and anyone else interested, of course): http://averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com/2019/05/on-melt-meltdown.html

      I have no idea what you motivations are but having read plenty of people’s demands for Labour to go full-fat Remain I’ve yet to read a single bit that addresses in a satisfactory fashion how doing so will in any way manage the fact that significant numbers of Labour’s support covering many of its historic heartlands supported leaving the European Union or how this can be squared with the fact that there was actually a referendum which Leave won. And I say this as someone who thinks leaving the EU is a bad idea.

      At the same time, though, what I have most definitely seen is the perfect alignment between those who wish to completely destroy Corbyn’s leadership of Labour and everything that flows from it, and those who are making silly demands on the party taking up a fundamentalist, inflexible Remain position. These are people who have decades in politics during which they constantly talked up the need for compromise and pandered endlessly to the right wing. That they should have suddenly decided that membership of the EU is their political raison d’etre is beyond believable.

      Politics is a strategic and a tactical game. There are short-term perspectives and long-term ones. Battles and wars. Labour, as an opposition party, still have only limited options when it comes to influencing the course of Brexit and, as such, there’s little point alienating significant support by adopting a position which is little better than catharsis for angst-ridden bourgeois urbanites told on daily basis by the liberal press that Brexit is the most important thing that eva was or eva will be. On the other hand, there are very good reasons of both principle and strategy to a) respect the referendum result and b) be seen to have exhausted all options gradually, explored each avenue, before making a definitive judgement on questions like whether or not to back a 2nd one. Also, and despite the wish fulfilment fantasies of elite politicians like Chuka or his chums still in the PLP, Labour is a mass membership democratic party. it has a Brexit policy and that policy was decided at its conference. Unless you secretly wish to subvert the entire basis of the Corbyn project, I’m not sure why you would want to act as if policy was better dictated from the top down.

    • Wow, and a full house of the usual suspects come flying out of the traps. Almost as if Mandy co-ordinated it.

      Now get some sleep you sad fucks!

      • timfrom 27/05/2019 at 1:26 am

        Don’t be ridiculous, that is about as sensible as me asking you – Who’s pulling your strings, Farage❓

      • Well tell me how you managed to get your opening comment in a full 2 minutes before the article was posted. My email bulletin is timed at 1.03!!!

      • timfrom 27/05/2019 at 1:47 am · ·

        “My email bulletin is timed at 1.03!!!”

        Tough luck, mine arrived at 00:57

      • Tim, The ‘usual suspects’ is a quote from Casablanca. They didn’t actually exist.

      • “The ‘usual suspects’ is a quote from Casablanca”. Among other things. It’s also a film from 1995. What’s your point?

        “They didn’t actually exist”. Well done, you know the meaning of fiction, too! If only it applied to the, erm, usual suspects…

  3. I don’t trust Thornberry, and I dont trust Starmer. They are the Trojan horses in the shadow cabinet, working against Labour values at every turn.

  4. Thornberry has turned out to be a big disappointment.

    She must be shuffled out of the cabinet first thing in the morning, along with Watson & Starmer.

    • timfrom 27/05/2019 at 1:20 am · · Reply →

      On what grounds, projecting the views of the membership, waking up to reality The very same membership that Corbyn promised to listen to.

      Prevaricating has been an absolute f…ing disaster and to argue otherwise is simply perverse.

      • SteveH “projecting the views of the membership” , NO it’s some of the membership and a great number IMO are of the opposite view hence the results of last night , you do your argument no good at all by making these outlandish assumptions and it typifies just how divided we are and the tightrope Corbyn is walking, trying his damnedest to keep one and all together not just in Labour but in the country too.
        Then you get total twats like Watson Starmer and now Thornbury showing their true colours and coming out with ridiculous statements that Corbyn makes policy he doesn’t WE DO and Corbyn is doing what the membership has decided at Conference . We are not stupid and neither are they , they have their goal and that is to steal back Labour ( sorry for emotive phrasing ) for the Centrists and to prevent a Corbyn lead DS GOvt .
        My reply here can equally apply to RH and Jack T in response to some of their comments , I’ve no wish to pick a fight with you guys but TBH it’s really disappointing to see how you are now demanding a simple Binary choice , that was exactly what that spiv Camamoron set up in the first place and so utterly smashed apart the little cohesion there was in this country , unleashed the Fascists and brought us to this point in time.
        I could go on but it will serve little purpose suffice to say I recon REDVEG comment above sums it up very well indeed in a thoughtful , logical , reasoned way .

      • rob 27/05/2019 at 8:50 am

        I agree, we are a divided party. We have on the one hand the vast majority of the party who want a CV and to remain in the EU, then we have a small minority who want to leave the EU and then we have a miniscule minority who want to leave with no deal.

        My above statement is confirmed by all the available evidence. Unless you can provide some credible evidence to the contrary please don’t waste my time.

      • It’s the Watson/Starmer disinformation campaign that has been the disaster. Amplified by the MSM, it succeeded in confusing the public as to what Labour policy was and helped project a confused and divided front.

        Now McDonnell is bottling it, too:

        “Can’t hide from hit we took last night.Bringing people together when there’s such a divide was never going to be easy. Now we face prospect of Brexiteer extremist as Tory leader & threat of no deal, we must unite our party & country by taking issue back to people in a public vote”.

      • timfrom 27/05/2019 at 9:04 am

        “we must unite our party & country by taking issue back to people in a public vote”

        All the available evidence indicates that this is what the Labour Party’s members and voters want.

      • All the available evidence indicates that this is what the Labour Party’s members and voters want.

        Provide proof it’s what labour VOTERS want.

        YOU said ‘all available evidence indicates’ – We DEMAND YOU supply it.

        NO IF’S – NO BUT’S. WE WANT TO PERUSE THIS ‘EVIDENCE’

    • Her misplaced “White van man” comment a while back revealed that she has very little understanding of ordinary working people and is quite dismissive of them. It’s the sort of attitude that Blair had. He never once attended the Durham Miners Gala as Labour Party leader because he quite literally did not want to be photographed sharing a platform with what he no doubt considered to be the riff raff of the Labour movement.
      Like Blair Thornberry wants these people’s votes but she is not prepared to listen to any of them.

  5. Emily Thornberry’s stance on TV tonight does not surprise me at all. She is a Labour Friend of Israel and therefore aligned with Zionism against the Palestinians and an ally in US imperialism’s aggression in the Middle East and elsewhere. By so blatantly aligning herself with ‘remain’ and the second-referendum option, she demonstrates her contempt for the democratic will of the majority of British voters who voted to leave the neo-liberal EU.

    I despite her previous posturing, I have never found her convincing as a Corbyn ally. He would do well to watch his back around her. Let’s hope that he ignores her call for a second vote (Farage has as good as boasted that if Britain does not leave the EU soon, he, rather than Corbyn could be our next Prime Minister after a GE). Labour must commit itself fully to leaving the EU, rather than the fudge-and-mudge line it has been pushing – just look at how badly it has performed in the Euro elections (admittedly the Tories have done far, far worse, but that is beside the point).

    Labour has a good message – seeking to bring together working people both sides of the Brexit divide, but it cannot do this by sitting on the fence. Thornberry has shown herself to be a closet rightist, closer to Watson than Corbyn. What a pity concessions to people of her ilk were made at at the Labour Party conference last year with the inclusion of the second referendum option. The waters have been truly mudded with dire consequences..

    • Redveg, I completely agree with you on Thornberry. But we have to make a decision based upon what we believe is best for the country. We cannot continue sitting on the fence in the hope that we can bring both sides together, we can’t.

      SKY has just added up the Leave and Remain votes and put Labour on the Remain side. In that scenario, Remain 53% Leave 46%

    • Thornberry backing the theft of Venezuelan gold via the bank of England confirmed for me that she was not here for us.

      Nothing will happen to Campbell either.

      • She’s getting fat, too. Those hamster cheeks have gone from cute to chubby.

        Like a reverse Tom Watson!

      • She’s getting fat, too

        Whaddaya mean, ‘getting’??

  6. Seen A Campbell on BBC admit he voted LD against Labour , surely that’s him out of the party now? Is it automatic expulsion in the rules? Get the mass murdering bastard out now!

  7. Ian Lavery trying like a Trojan to rationalise Labour’s position.

    Poor bugger – trying to plait fog.

  8. Lavery is one of those Labour MPs who didn’t understand the situation right from the very start and has helped to produce this mess.

    Skwawkbox is in the same camp and never stopped telling us that Jeremy was playing a blinder by hedging, when in fact we were looking for leadership.

  9. I follow Labour Party policy, so you have just insulted the whole Labour Party.

    • Internal Affairs 27/05/2019 at 6:03 am

      Have you got those direct quotes from the 2017 manifesto and 2018 motion yet.

      • Have you done me those lines yet? Wait outside my office after school.

        SteveH, you and your deluded demands. You’re hilarious!

  10. I would be interested to hear from one of the many remain advocates on this site explain how they would address the problem,made apparent in these elections,of a European Parliament that is becoming increasingly right wing(with the honourable exception of Spain). Populist and openly racist parties seem to have done rather well and the Socialist vote has suffered,additionally were we to remain we would have the awkwardness of 28 Farage supporting goons representing the UK in Brussels. What could possibly go wrong?

    • One of the many problems facing the EU that I’ve tried on many occasions to get them to debate, without success Jim. It destroys the whole “remain and reform” buzz phrase.

      • It is essential that the Left (the non fake Left, that is) crushes the nonsense of “remain and reform”. The notion that the EU can be changed to become something democratic and socialist is a completely deceptive position. It relies on ignorance of the content of the EU Treaties and in particular of the systems they lay down for their own amendment.

        Too many Labour people connive in peddling this fraud.

        Lee Jones very effectively destroys “remain and reform” in this article:
        https://braveneweurope.com/lee-jones-the-folly-of-remain-and-reform-why-the-eu-is-impervious-to-change

      • Danny 27/05/2019 at 8:55 am

        “It is essential that the Left (the non fake Left, that is) crushes the nonsense of “remain and reform”. The notion that the EU can be changed to become something democratic and socialist is a completely deceptive position.”

        Jeremy will be disappointed to hear you have such a low opinion of him.

      • Exactly Danny. That’s why they won’t debate it…..You can’t reform the EU without the agreement of 27 countries, at the same time, to dump the Euro and tear up the Maastricht treaty and all laws/treaties that affected thereafter.
        Remain and reform is a massive lie.

    • The European Union is not the Socialist United States of Europe which socialists
      put on our banner more than a century ago. It is not something built by the working-class movement. Like Britain and all the other member states taken separately, the EU is bourgeois.

      Despite that, it is an immense step forward from the Europe that preceded it — a place of fierce national conflicts, wars, forced population movements, ethnic cleansing, and mass murder — a continent that engendered two world wars in the first half of the 20th century. The borders within Europe are now more open than since the collapse of the Roman Empire in the 5th century, and over a much larger area than that covered by Rome.

      Often in our history the labour movement has had to come to terms with seeing the bourgeoisie do things we wanted done, and, in the nature of things, doing them in their way and not ours, and for their own reasons, which are not ours.

      Our movement has two clear-cut choices on such things. It can reject them out of hand and look to a reversion to the previous conditions.

      As long ago as the Communist Manifesto (1847-8), Marxists defined some of those who took that choice — the well-meaning ones, who among other things objected to the degradation of the working class — as “reactionary socialists”. All of them were historically regressive and reactionary.

      The other approach has been and is to own that what the bourgeoisie has done in the case has been progressive, try to reform and reshape it, and build on it.

      That second choice, fundamentally, is our approach to capitalism itself. The entire Marxist tradition, that of Marx and Engels Lenin, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemburg, points us to the second approach — to build on what the EU has developed, to fight to transform it, to strive to realise adequate bourgeois democracy within it, to cut down the smothering tendrils of its bureaucracy, to build working class unity within the frame of the EU (and beyond it, of ourse), and finally to put the working class in control and create the Socialist United States of Europe.

    • “a European Parliament that is becoming increasingly right wing”

      That explicitly was not John Curtice’s analysis.

      In answer to the theoretical question, one might pose the question of how to address the problem of the England having become increasingly right wing – to the extent that current Labour policy on Europe effectively shadows the Tory one?

  11. I’ve warned about thornberry time & again. It’s all coming home to roost.

    Would sell her own grandparents/parents/offspring to be top dog. thornberry’s demeanour has been one of her being pissed off that she isn’t from the moment Corbyn made her shadow foreign sec….A post she feels is beneath her.

    But according to the usual knobheads that’ll just be me on a rant, and thornberry’s ”done the right thing.”

    Fucking idiots.

    • Indeed, The Toffee. Anyone who has taken the trouble to watch Emily Thornberry’s (AKA Lady Nugee) body language and facial expressions every time she has been sitting behind him during PMQ’s will have immediately concluded “she really hates and despises Jeremy and everything he stands for”. Despite being forced by family break-up to spend a part of her life on a rough housing estate in some hardship, Thornberry is an upper class woman to her marrow, married back into the upper, not just the middle, classes, as Lady Nugee. She is political poison and though an able speaker and media performer, hasn’t got a socialist bone in her body. Ideal as a faux Left , Owen Smith-style, Leadership candidate for the neoliberal Labour Right.

  12. ‘ere steve h….

    Where’s yer socialist EU government today, plums? Doesn’t look like it’s happening, does it? You gonna give it up now – because that was your big selling point.

    And it hasn’t happened. You got it wrong again

    WRONG. AGAIN.

    Compared to you, even that fuck-up dan hodges looks clairvoyant.

  13. For those who keep droning on about/distorting party policy, here is the relevant passage from the 2017 Manifesto: This doesn’t look like fence-sitting to me; the fence-sitting narrative has been peddled by the MSM and even shadowier forces, ably supported by anti-democratic turncoats inside the party, directed by Alistair Campbell.

    “Negotiating Brexit

    Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.

    We will prioritise jobs and living standards, build a close new relationship with the EU, protect workers’ rights and environmental standards, provide certainty to EU nationals and give a meaningful role to Parliament throughout negotiations.

    We will end Theresa May’s reckless approach to Brexit, and seek to unite the country around a Brexit deal that works for every community in Britain.

    “Labour will always put jobs and the economy first”
    We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.

    A Labour government will immediately guarantee existing rights for all EU nationals living in Britain and secure reciprocal rights for UK citizens who have chosen to make their lives in EU countries. EU nationals do not just contribute to our society: they are part of our society. And they should not be used as bargaining chips.

    It is shameful that the Prime Minister rejected repeated attempts by Labour to resolve this issue before Article 50 was triggered. As a result three million EU nationals have suffered unnecessary uncertainty, as have the 1.2 million UK citizens living in the EU.

    A Conservative Brexit will weaken workers’ rights, deregulate the economy, slash corporate taxes, sideline Parliament and democratic accountability, and cut Britain off from our closest allies and most important trading partners.

    Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy.

    The issues that affect our continent now will continue to do so in the future – and Labour will continue to work constructively with the EU and other European nations on issues such as climate change, refugee crises and counter-terrorism.

    We will build a close co-operative future relationship with the EU, not as members but as partners.”

    • labrebisgalloise 27/05/2019 at 9:15 am

      Surely I don’t have to point it out to someone as knowledgeable as yourself that the policy outlined in the 2017 Manifesto is no longer party policy because it was superseded by the Composite Motion agreed at the 2018 conference

  14. They just don’t learn.

    gordon (is a moron) broon rightfully copped the backlash when he called that arld girl ‘bigoted’

    thornberry had no choice but to quit over ‘that’ tweet – it appears she hasn’t changed her tune.

    Anyone agreeing with thornberry then and/or now should not be welcome in the party as their views are every bit as damaging as far-right extremist views.

  15. Stop trying to paint any dissent as betrayal.

    Thornberry is just making her views known, that does not make her, Starmer or any of the other shadow cabinet members who back a second referendum rightwing plotters.

    Corbyn is sticking to what was the agreed strategy at conference; try for a deal if that fails, try for a General election, when that looks impossible back a second vote. He has repeated this over and over.

    Watson, and others, know full well we are likely to come out backing a second vote eventually and want to be able to claim some kind of victory and responsibility for “changing the leaderships direction” when Corbyn does what he said he would do all along.

    Also Sqwarkbox, hate to burst your bubble, but more people voted for remain parties than leave parties in the E.U. elections; 40% remain and 35% leave…

    • Stop trying to paint any dissent as betrayal.

      Oy! Gevalt. Not been here long, have you, eccles?

    • Problem with this is turnout.

      If the country is as pro remain as some claim, why weren’t the numbers higher? After all, love the EU etc. Would have thought every remainer would have voted. Equally, if people were determined to leave, why didn’t they vote for their cause?

      What it looks like is that the long grinding drawn out delayed process has done its job. Millions are now fed up with it. People who voted (for either stance) are now a minority.

      This means the establishment can implement what they desire most, and we can be safely ignored.

      • NVLA 27/05/2019 at 10:02 am

        I think the lowish turnout you refer to may to some extent be explained by the Labour Party having a large core of very loyal voters who stayed at home because they couldn’t stomach voting for anyone else but Labour but also felt they couldn’t vote for Labour because of the fence sitting policy.

      • And the “loyal” Tories who have the hump with their lot? Its not just Labour, the proof is the whipping the Tories have just had.

        And this still doesn’t cover all the “love the EU” that we’ve heard for several years. Why haven’t they voted? You’d have thought that millions would have appeared for such a passionate subject. Equally, the brexiters really turned out either. But, that could have lots to do with reluctance to support Farage

      • Or they were people like me SteveH, who couldn’t stomach voting for the Brexit party and couldn’t stomach voting for freeloaders on the gravy train.

    • The turnout wasn’t much different from the run of EU elections. What a higher turnout might produce is simply unknowable. But it is clear that prospective Labour voters were less likely to support the Party than the Kippers were to support the Brexit Party.

      In GE terms, the situation in Scotland is really worrying. Even though this was an EU election, the loss of Scottish seats shows no sign of reversal, and the SNP has clearly been granted more leverage by Labour’ navel-gazing policy. The situation favours the Tories more than Labour, and our supporters in Scotland are having their legs cut off.

      • Strange isn’t it that ‘northern working class Labour voters,’ so often referred to on this site don’t count if they live on the wrong side of the border.

  16. Also Sqwarkbox, hate to burst your bubble, but more people voted for remain parties than leave parties in the E.U. elections; 40% remain and 35% leave…

    On HOW BIG a turnout?

    (It’s the default whinge of remain with their ‘37%’ squeal)

    Means sod-all anyway – who won the most seats, eccles?

  17. When the view of last night’s results is a chain of denial, plus directing blame for abject failure at everything in sight Watso, Starmer, Thornberry, the majority of members, the BBC – yadda, yadda, yadda – you know that the Farage/ERG allies are out of any ideas.

    • Oh, I agree entirely for once, dicky.

      But then again, I remember the reason they won the most seats, and who’s fault it is…

      • To answer the question – not entirely, but substantially, Labour’s.

      • The Toffee (597) 27/05/2019 at 12:33 pm

        But then again, I remember the reason they won the most seats, and who’s fault it is…

        Yes I agree, it is rather unfortunate that you are part of the problem because you didn’t vote.

      • To answer the question – not entirely, but substantially, Labour’s.

        Absolutely right AGAIN! My, but you’re on form today, lad!

        The ‘substantial’ 83% that keep squealng for a 2nd referendum is who to blame.

        See? Wasnt hard, was it, dicky?

      • Yes I agree, it is rather unfortunate that you are part of the problem because you didn’t vote.

        Unlucky. That’s YOUR problem, bellend. You see, I was NEVER gonna bet on a dead horse.

        Nor was I gonna pathetically attempt to flog it to an uninterested public, and cost the labour party vote by demandng the public buy it.

    • steve richards 27/05/2019 at 10:15 am

      So how’s that going to work out when all the extensive evidence available consistently indicates that the vast majority of the Labour Party’s membership are Remainers.

      Do you have any credible evidence to the contrary.

    • Whilst the berating of ‘Blairites’ continues – one thing strikes me.

      It is the image of a massive march in London where a large swaithe of (amongst others) Labour members were protesting about a disastrous policy imposed by a deaf leadership who ‘knew best’.One of the MPs present – a bloke called Corbyn was accused of being a ‘traitor’ because he supported the demand for democracy and the abandonment of a doomed and damaging policy by the out-of-touch leadership..

      Ring any bells?

      • The ‘Waitrose March’ demonstrates how the bourgeoisie organise & demand representation. The Guardian reading activists now demand more in the same way that bourgeois activists control MSM, especially public service broadcasting. Both the BBC & especially Channel 4 constantly attempt to manufacture & manage consent for a ‘Confirmatory Vote’. Fundamentally dishonest.

        The Guardian has always been a ‘Liberal’ promoting newspaper, which explains why Jeremy Corbyn is constantly under attack, especially when you realise that the newspaper of choice @ BBC is the Guardian.

        The vast majority of MPs are Remainers as well as the PM. How can anyone be surprised as the instruction to leave the EU issued by the public in answer to the question asked by parliament some 3 years ago is forever being kicked down the road. Anything but leave the EU; anything but democracy. We can check out, but we can never leave.

        The Labour Party delegates vote at Conference for whatever coincides with their personal ideologies. They are not mandated nor instructed by their constituencies to vote for or against any motion. The bourgeoisie may dominate activism in all political parties, but I trust the judgement of Jeremy Corbyn much more than Watson; Campbell; Thornberry; Cooper; Creagh or Starmer. Their ‘natural home’ is the Lib.Dems & not a ‘Socialist Labour, along with one or two other MPs.

      • steve richards 27/05/2019 at 5:57 pm

        Why are you so contemptuous of other Labour Party members and voters. They may not share your desire for your own brand of Socialist Navara but if new members broadly support the 2017 Manifesto and Labour’s principles then it is difficult to see why they shouldn’t be welcomed with open arms. We should appreciate the people who vote Labour not treat them contempt.It is very counter productive to alienate then because Labour can’t win without them. Try to be a bit less judgemental and a bit more comradely to those that support our party.

  18. In this media soundbite world everything has to either black or white! Rational common sense is too difficult for a vast majority of voters to apprehend , it seems ! Therefore, Emily’s People’s Vote would definitely secure an explicit decision but would it be an intelligent one !?

    The question is : how do you soundbite a rational argument ? Leave but stay? …or let’s move next door ?…or let’s divorce but stay friends ?

    If demagogue Farage gets his way there’s going to be a lot of people who’ll suffer for believing him but it’ll be too late !

    • You have put your finger on the essential problem that Labour has. This issue is indeed ‘black and white’. Whatever the minor ameliorations that *might* be negotiated, Brexit is, indeed Brexit – and economically damaging whatever its shape – a shape drawn up by the far right.

      The country is divided, and that it why all the talk of ‘compromise’ is empty. The gap between the polarities isn’t amenable to such a notion – by definition. The country is either in or out of the EU

      In any form, that will handicap Labour’s aim of instituting social reform.

  19. Did the 6 million vote for neverenders
    Consensus is extremists on both sides came out and constitute about 10% of the electorate,
    Best you can say is this particular Peoples vote was a clear message that the country remains divided, lose lose
    Back to reality, next move will be cheap and nasties Elect a no dealer and JC calls VONC
    Finally what happens to Alistair Campbell and Pantomime Dame

    • Out the fucking door with borh of them , cuntamble and mad nut zionist “the dame” along with a good many other RWingrs in the rotfested PLP

  20. If there is one thing we can all agree on is that the country is still divided on Brexit? The EU Elections have shown once again that as far as turnout is concerned it wasn’t all that great and if we try to extrapilate a Remain or Leave win from these results, we are doing a disservice to the electorate.

    What we can see is manoeuvring by Labour MP’s who have always been on the Remain side to ‘Strike whilst the iron is hot’ in order for them to build momentum for a coup. This serves no purpose except for their own advancement and does not get Labour back in power. Quite the opposite. I can’t believe that I agreed with Stephen Kinnock last night but he was measured and correct in doing so.

    I believe Emily once again was too quick to say her views and not measured enough to ensure that the narrative the BBC and MSM want to put on these results were Labour fail. Yes, it’s disappointing that we didn’t win those EU seats but the Lib’ Dems’ always seemed to be going to prosper when Labour voters voted for them or the Brexit Party.

    With 158 Labour MP’s in Leave areas and 88 in Remain areas. This was always going to be a fine balancing act. I would still caution the PLP in going all out Remain as we don’t want another ‘Scotland’ when we lost 80% of our MP’s. So the bottom line after this is we need to ensure that Brexit happens with a deal and we also need to ensure that those in the party that are using this to start a coup are foiled.

    • What you mean, Christopher, is ‘I’m a Brexiteer’. Fair enough – but I’mj afraid the evidence is very much against that position as a way to power for Labour.

      You criticize Thornberry – but I listened to John Ashworth and Ian Lavery stoically trying to justify Labour’s position. I felt sorry for them – after the results, it was an impossible task, and it wasn’t going to persuade any of those who had backed the LibDems or Greens – let alone the conservatives and kiippers who backed Farage.

  21. “the country remains divided”

    I agree. And that was inevitable when a 37% vote was taken as sufficient to make a significant constitutional change. Another example of how totally out of kilter and unfit is the pretend UK constitution

    • Well, we are not going to get Proportional Representation anytime soon. But with such voting methods you also get the far-right and other undesirables in parliament. Is it worth it?

      • Yes – it probably is worth it – along with a whole host of other constitutional changes. It’s not a cure-all – but it could be an advance.

        At the moment, the ‘undesirables’ are already in charge!

  22. I’m totally disheartened by both Emily Thornberry & Paul Mason. Just cannot believe what both of them are doing to Labour Party. I won’t be voting for Emily in any leadership election. She needs to resign from front bench.

    • I think Paul Mason is a faux socialist and I no longer trust him either. As far as Emily Thornberry is concerned, she seems to make these outbursts and then retracts them later. For a Shadow Foreign Secretary she needs to be measured and this will be her downfall.

      • The increasingly bizarre faux Leftie, Paul Mason (a music teacher by background NOT an economist – who somehow ended up as Economics Editor on the solidly Tory-supporting Newsnight ) was in a tiny Trotskyist grouplet for 20 years – yet , by his lack of even basic Marxist economic analysis – never seems to have attended a political education course – of which Trot groups were very keen. I well recall this celebrity media journalist singing the praises of the Gig Economy , as “true working freedom ” – without the insight to see that flitting from well paid media gig to gig for himself, was rather different to most people trapped in insecure, zero hour contract jobs, with Deliveroo, Sports Direct, Amazon, etc, etc. Mason nowadays not only seems obsessed (as only the prosperous Guardianista middle classes can be) with staying in the EU, but also seems obsessed with the need to confront Putin’s ramshackle Russian Federation (defence budget nowadays lower than France !) in the Baltic States, etc , and wants the UK to up its defence budget accordingly ! Weird stuff. A screw loose somewhere .

      • Yes I too no longer take Mason seriously, and to think I bought his book ! sucker …

      • I even got him to sign my copy of Postcapitalism at The World Transformed in Liverpool the other year.

        I wonder what I can get for it on eBay.,.

    • xpressanny 27/05/2019 at 11:09 am

      Why is it wrong to project the views of the majority of both Labour’s members and supporters.

    • The Tories couldn’t wish for a better display than this penchant for stripping the Labour Party down to a handful of people talking to each other and nodding agreement with the echoes of the empty room.

      As we’ve seen – it’s not a great winning strategy.

    • “I’m totally disheartened by both Emily Thornberry & Paul Mason.”

      Then I’m sorry to say you have been asleep for the past few years…

    • “I’m totally disheartened by both Emily Thornberry & Paul Mason. Just cannot believe what both of them are doing to Labour Party.”

      Oh dear, oh dear. This denial of the actuaity and the cause of last week’s debacle is an amazing act of projection.

      All they’ve done is state the bleedin’ obvious – that current policy is a shambolic nonsense, and stated their view of an alternative.

      Better than hanging on to the tattered rags that don’t even cover Labour’s modesty.

      We’ve now got to the absurd position where Corbyn’s suporters are being called ‘traitors’ etc. etc. No wonder the Party’s image has become a bit of a sad 14% joke. Time to reset – take it back to the members.

      I note that no-one’s called out Ian Lavery for voting against the whip. Sauce for the goose …??

  23. I’m losing the will here. Can someone please explain why this election is so important when we won’t be in the EU for long? do you think that had a lot to do with why people voted for leave parties knowing in the end it won’t really matter.
    I live in a Leave constituency I live in the North of England, I also voted Leave as did my family and all my friends and acquaintances, now we see the consequences of leaving we have all changed our minds and would vote differently if given the opportunity but falling that I personally think that Labour has got it right to leave with a deal that works for the whole Country not just Leavers or Remainers, it’s what is best for the UK as a whole that matters.
    To be truthful I am sick to death of Brexit and just want it finished one way or another.
    I personally think that when we do get a GE Labour voters will vote Labour and not use a protest vote because they see & hear daily accounts of what Tory Policies are doing to the UK and it’s people, it would be suicide to vote any other way. My family voted Labour in the EU elections just in case you’re wondering.

    • It’s the issue that matters – not this particular election.

      Think Brexit. Think Scunthorpe.

      (And no – I’m not saying that Brexit is *the* cause of the situation – but that is what the threatened steepening of economic decline looks like in a vulnerable economy).

    • Hi Hillary and nice to see you commenting again, and well said , chimes very much with my sentiments. Sick to death of it all , the bitter divisions created in our party , the absolute consuming of good will , solidarity and fraternity, drains away any …ohh I cant be arsed to finish ..just bloody pointless.

      • Hi Rob not been too well so just been doing my bit by reposting to Twitter & Facebook, nice to know someone missed me, so thank you.

    • Indeed. The anglo-centric nature of things tends to ignore the significance of Labour’s decline in Scotland. Those seats have been crucial to previous victories.

    • I can’t see any way of getting into government save as part of a coalition. That’s pretty well certain given our long term wipeout in Scotland.

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