Comment
Tom Watson is desperately trolling Labour supporters in an attempt to compensate for the disastrous launch of the quitter group, whose members have only managed to make themselves look empty and incompetent.
His comments on TV today are nonsensical and show an ignorance of Labour processes that can only reasonably be seen as wilful and an attempt to provoke reaction from Labour members and supporters for ammunition and as a scrabble for relevance by an MP who only six or so months ago was telling the BBC it was his job to stop the Tory government from falling.
Watson hates being ignored even more than he hates being disliked. So ignore, ignore, ignore.
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I’m sorry who are you talking about?
lol
I don’t think it shows his ignorance of procedures at all. It’s clear to me he’s setting Corbyn up to fail. Saying that Corbyn should personally review his dossier of anti-Semitism case drives a coach and horses through the party’s disciplinary processes and Watson knows this. However, he also knows that there will now be legions of the wilfully ignorant running around claiming that the fact that Corbyn refuses to intervene on the cases as proof that he is ‘pandering to anti-Semitism’ or somesuch.
It’s extremely manipulative of Watson to have said what he has, and very much in character from what I can see.
Yes, exactly, and Watson and the other saboteurs (who haven’t left yet) should be expelled from the party for maligning it again and again and again.
Enough is enough!
Andy’s comment says it for me. I am also appalled that Watson chose to give life to the portrayal of the LP as not doing enough about AS by supporting his disingenuous proposal with a series of lurid but presumably unverified examples.
Whilst most who read the SB are well aware of where all this comes from, I do think that perhaps the LP leadership are “not doing enough” to counter the smear: It doesn’t help, for example, that the individual responses from John McD., JC, Barry Gardiner, and Chris Williamson (who dealt brilliantly with a Sky News interview BTW) don’t really add up, as they stand, to form a collective position. I do think there may be a case for a joint statement at times like these.
And I would add that Jon Lansman’s interview at 7.35. on the Today programme was woeful, and showed in the questioning how biased the Beeb really are.
John Lansman has previously revealed himself not to be a neutral honest broker.
I saw him on a news show. I used to think that Dick Lamborghini bloke on the radio was a one off. Nah there’s barrel s of em, glued to the chair spouting bile. We need a Captain Ahab. X
My thoughts exactly. Nuclear Warmonger Watson is clearly trying to trap Corbyn.
As I have said before, this is part of a coup. Watson has been speaking to Labour MPs to try to lever concessions from Corbyn. One of which is that he should appoint more anti-Corbyn MPs to the frontbench. Later on, they can then stage a mass resignation and try to force Corbyn out.
My feeling about the whole quitter thing is simply “bored now”.
I lived through the Gang of Four shebang back in the day, and, like it or not, there was genuine excitement about the ‘new way’ they promised.
This time around, I haven’t seen anyone excited except a very few Remainers who see this as a last chance to get a PV (yawn).
As for Watson, frankly, who cares?
This shower lack panache. The photos that I have seen show a reluctant, cowardly bunch. Maybe Bolton might proclaim them as our new leaders. Regards
Jenny Formby, who is doing an exellent job as General Secretary, saw the traitor off refusing to acknowledge any wrong doing in the Wavetree CLP and pointing out to Watson and everyone else that it would now be unconstitutional to suspend a CLP for merely coming up with a democratic decision. It is obvious that a Chicken Coup 2 is being plotted against Corbyn and Weasel Watson is right in the thick of it, as he probably was in the first one. Watson and the remaining Blairites and Centrists want to strip away power from us members and CLPs and concentrate it in to a small elite. Note how rabidly anti Corbyn the Observer newspaper has become, so it is being co-ordinated with the media. The traitor even had the cheek to state he is thinking of creating a party within a party of like minded MPs. Best thing for us members to do is to stay firmly behind Corbyn as we have the numbers and the ever dwindling Blairite faction don’t! Watson clearly sees Jenny Formby as enemy number one and she has blown the lid on the anti semitic “crisis” in the party by revealing just one in a thousand members has a complaint been made against and complaints are being dealt with much more speedily than her useless predecesser Ian McNicholl. Watson is desperately trying to hype the anti semitic “crisis” up of course but it must be countered by Jenny Formby’s figures that tell a completely different story.
“Note how rabidly anti Corbyn the Observer newspaper has become, so it is being co-ordinated with the media.”
Apart from the obvious surface issues, perhaps the most significant feature of the current situation is the poof positive of the client status of the ‘free’ press in this country. Proper – let alone courageous – journalism has now been overtaken by propaganda from a narrow spectrum to a degree that I can’t recall.
Ironically, it was the Observer that stood out against the crowd at the time of Suez. There is no major media outlet that is doing the equivalent now. All are in thrall to the right (forget the misleading ‘Centrist’ label) in a marriage of convenience with the Israel lobby Despite the cover of the odd contrarian article that you can find with some effort, the editorial policies are dependent, not independent.
Like the comment by peterswa62, especially the support for Jenny Formby.
He doesn’t like all attention.
When I suggested to him on Twitter that if he believed the Labour Party was Institutionally Antisemitic and tolerates abuse he should resign because only Antisemites remain members of parties they genuinely believe to be Institutionally Antisemitic and that If he didn’t that would show that he did not believe his own claims.
His reaction was to block me.
Say one thing to Watson he doesn’t like or ask him a question he has no answer for (politely as I did) and he blocks you, I think he must be the only one on Twitter whose block list is greater than his follower list.
Its all they have and after ‘funny tinge’ dropped them all in it they realised the AS problem had joined the IG
Still cannot see why we dont stand up for our proud record
Open with safest country in europe for Jewish Community thanks to JC and Labour movement and finish with proven cases are as rare as hens teeth
This antisemitism scam has no relevance for the wider (and varied) Jewish Community – they are merely being cynically used as propaganda material for particular sectional interests.
Worse – the fictions have a very real possibility of creating real antisemitic blowback.
Good stuff, Doug. Tally ho, on to the GE.
Watson knows the game is up for him and is angling to be Leader of the deserters but trying to do as much damage to Corbyn as possible before he goes. JC could now wrong foot him by coming out strongly for a people’s vote, the only democratic solution to Brexit and then withdrawing the whip from Watson.
Hahaha, why doesn’t Corbyn go full on centrist, join the parachute group and Labour Friends of Israel and declare Watson leader?
The term ‘centrist’ is becoming the second most abused/manipulated and consequently meaningless term after ‘antisemitism’!
Let’s join this new bunch en masse. Take it over and kick the traitors out. Before permission is granted the guilty must spend an hour in a soundproofed kiosk with Madame Sewer Gob of that ilk, swearing and screaming and asking for more of something or other. Just a general question, do all renegades have film and media crews on hand 24/7.
In the final analysis, the MSM and the conspiritors who have been a party to the ‘anti-semitism’ Smear Campaign get away with it precisely because they are not accountable. So when Ken Livingstone, for example, alludes to the Haavara Agreement, in passing, in the radio interview with Vanessa Feltz, the tsunami wave of hysteria and condemnation which followed – which was totally bogus and contrived – was effective precisely for that reason – ie every single person involved in the falsehood KNEW that they wouldn’t ever be put on the spot and, as such, have to account for their fraudulent claims and their faux outrage. The point is of course that they ALL knew that Ken was referring to an historical fact, but they also knew that 99.99% of the general public had never heard of it or knew anything about it.
Try putting it to any of the Smearers that Ken was obviously alluding to the Haavara Agreement – ie email them as such – and you can be 100% certain you won’t hear back from them.
And the same goes for just about ALL of the OTHER high profile cases.
As for the claims of online abuse – or claims of anti-semitic comments – given the situation we find ourselves in – and bearing in mind of course that allegations are dealt with confidentially by the NEC – what is to stop the NEC from publishing ALL the actual comments AND how they dealt with the person that made them in each case, and do so without naming the person concerned of course.
Your argument on transparency is exactly the same as my view. Given that there may be some practical/legal reasons for anonymity in some cases, the detailing of evidence and findings would be interesting.
Some things are for sure :
– Accusations that have real substance and are dealt with by disciplinary action will receive wholescale support from members.
– Fake allegations, such as those we know of where the evidence is in the public sphere will be exposed to the contempt they deserve.
– Messages from fake accounts and from non-member sources will be enumerated.
– The stretching of ‘antisemitism’ to cover anything the BoD and Israel nexus might not like will be exposed for what it is.
– The sort of injustice dealt to Marc Wadsworth would be revealed, if it occurred.
All instances of A/S should be given to the police. No matter how large or small. Hate crime is illegal. The police will then issue a crime number. The problem then shifts to the authorities and we know exacting detection will take place……wouldn’t it. That would show that our search for the antisemitism that is present at every meeting becomes extinct. What will we have to prove then? Regards, oh yes, screaming and swearing and acting as a mob should also be punished. We should use Corner of the Yard much more, could lead to a few leaps of course. Best wishes Comrades.
What did he say?
Watched the League Cup final yesterday.Chelsea goalie refuses to be substituted.Commentators on tv,radio and press as one,goalkeeper must be sacked.Comments like you cannot disrespect your manager in public like that,he has undermined his manager and that is unforgivable,Ifeel so sorry for Sarri(the manager) and do that in any other job and you would be sacked on the spot. Any other job that is except Labour MP where the line is feel sorry and praise the underminers and condemn the manager.
Can’t we replace him?
Who?
Did nobody watch “The Lobby” available on YouTube, where it shows that the anti Semitism in the Labour Party is a scam perpetrated by the Israeli embassy in London ?
You could put a lid on this if a mainstream media group, like Ch4 used to be, did a Dispatches type documentary into antisemitism within Labour from the party’s perspective and included bits from The Lobby for historical accuracy.
Sadly, they’d rather keep on trying to destroy Labour.
I’m afraid the control of the media is such that – as many of us have previously remarked – proper evidence such as ‘The Lobby’ or the previous Ch 4 documentary on the same subject is eliminated from the record.
The omissions and distortions are so crass and comprehensive that they certainly aren’t accidental – or are a massive indictment of the standard of journalism, when anyone can uncover the evidence quite quickly without being Sherlock Holmes.
Serious questions must still be asked about Jennie Formby & the NEC’s adoption of the IHRA definition of Anti-Semitism, which gives credibility to Tom Watson’s accusations simply by definition if you dare criticise Israel.
I agree. I read somewhere that saying “a pound of flesh” (in any context) is deeply antisemitic.
I have to say that the “politically correct” mob precluded all this nonsense.
A pound will be a legal measurement on 29th March. I do get your point and once that starts it will never end. I wonder how our learned men an women of academe will do about that? Discernment, no doubt followed by book burnings. I’ve stopped believing that we are living in a democracy for a while, we live in an idiocracy.
So true Steve. Adopting IHRA became ‘entrapment’ as the goalposts were moved. Still there is some ‘larnin’ to do about the kind of comments that some twits make (i.e. Hatton) about all Jews being responsible for Israel’s Policy towards Palestinians. That would be like saying all Poles are responsible for the right wing Policies of Poland’s Government, or like the naïve untutored pensioner in Wavertree quoted in the Observer yesterday.An easy trap fallen into often by those used to thinking they are not anti Semitic at all, but still say such things and have nevere been on a ‘course’. Certainly the familiar tropes continue in ‘pub talk’. But mostly, anti-Semitism in its perfidious form, emanates from extreme rightwing groups, and they are also violent. I am really worried as anti-Semitism is on the rise in Europe among rightwing extremists groups, and who is fighting that? Us!. Here, the attacks against Labour are contrived to topple Corbyn and his policies, so very little actual evidence commensurate to size of the Party, is provided of widespread anti-Semitism among Labour members, and what is usually about suppression of l;anguage such as the ‘Z’ word. rather than vile blood libels and so on. Ian Austin’s remark about someone saying Berger did not have human blood, was shocking, but no evidence as to who said it and if indeed it was a Labour member. Accusers are adept at obfuscating and implying wrong doing by members where noner exsts. Legally it is impossible for Formby to release details of what was said and by whom when and how it contravenes IHRA without risk to individuals and risk of court proceedings by those individuals. Cleft stick strategy. I do think Falconer, if that was ever a real runner, would play a useful role in overseeing, as he has credibility, and is less associated with Blair these days. If it was a goer, I expect Watson has been on the phone telling him not to bother.
“the kind of comments that some twits make (i.e. Hatton) about all Jews being responsible for Israel’s Policy towards Palestinians.”
What I read only implied that if one performed mental gymnastics. The substance was, as far as I was concerned, that the Jewish community were the key lobby in refuting Israeli claims to righteousness and representativeness in relation to the treatment of Palestinians.
That’s one, valid interpretation RH and I’m sure that is exactly what Hatton intended. Unfortunately, there’s a bit more to it than that though. The fact that Hatton felt the need to say what he said and his use of the all important words ” … Jewish people need to start speaking out…” may be well intentioned ,but can also also strongly convey a quite different message: namely the perception that Jews, as a group, aren’t doing enough to condemn the actions of the Israeli government. This was my immediate and abiding impression of the sub text and one which requires zero mental gymnastics. For me, his comment was glib, insensitive and apparently under informed.
I do find myself having to perform some mental gymnastics to avoid reaching the conclusion that the framing of Hatton’s comment doesn’t carry with it the suggestion of “Jewish” complacency. Had he referenced some of the many courageous Jewish groups and individuals who do criticise Israel, I would have received a very different impression of the quality of his comment and what it suggested about his view.
I take your point, Paulo.
I think that what I would say in general is that it might be open to misinterpretation and could have been better put.
But ‘antisemitic’ it wasn’t by any clear definition of the term – which implies ill-will to a particular group.
… which leads us to the central problem – that the term has become so stretched as to have lost the force of its proper meaning. i.e it has been wilfully trivialised.
That’s true (about Watson hates to be ignored more than anything.) Just make sure less experienced Labour supporters know about him!
Tom Watson has now been given the platform he needs by the BBC. An announcement made that he’s inviting MPs from the Social Democratic ‘tradition’ of the Labour Party to meet & discuss the future of the Labour Party. aka ‘The Blarites’ elbows Jeremy to the sidelines; Watson is our leader? I’m drinking again!
Sad, how some of these former sporting greats turn out, innit?
….Ohhhh, you mean THAT tom watson? The one on the telly sometimes who looks likes David Lynch’s ‘eraserhead’ has collided into the back of Ronnie Barker at tremedous velocity?
Sad, the things these political nobodies will do & say just to get on the telly, innit?
Watson should be suspended immediately as Deputy Leader pending an inquiry into his behaviour and comments. Put Barry G in his place temporary if that’s possible. The Centrists will do what their gonna do anyway, vote how they want, speak out how want, run to the media when want and leave if their that way incline. Of course their blame it all on Corbyn but they do that anyway, nothing new. There’s genuine case to answer from Watson. Brexit will also be the major story over the coming months there isn’t a better time to deal with him and take back some control. Force his hand, he really can’t do anymore than he already has?
Don’t belittle Tom. I reckon that he could be quite a Don Juan, if only he were to add: courtesy, loyalty, honesty and gallantry to women to his arsenal and a funny tinge of self effacement. I look forward to his economic statement on CBC- I heard that Dame Pottymouth and about 49 others will be going along as support. Pip Pip.
Calling on ‘Jewish people with any sense of humanity, to stop the murder of Palestinians’. I wave no flag on behalf of Derek Hatton & believe he should have followed Chukka, but to suspend him over this? A tweet that is 7 years old & contains a plea to stop the slaughter…….in the name of humanity! As long as Labour keep the IHRA definition & the slaughter continues in Palestine, there will be accusations of Anti-Semitism, by definition. This post qualifies.
… which brings us to a key issue in all this. Compare the column inches devoted to *some* things that *some* people choose to find offensive (see Hatton), and the column inches devoted to the daily subjugation of people in their homeland by a colonial occupation. An occupation that was founded in terrorism, has operated ethnic cleansing of a territory, stolen land, instituted an apartheid regime of cultural exclusivity, created a ghettto in Gaza, and routinely murders unarmed citizens of the indigenous people.
Some moral sense in not finding all that ‘offensive’!
The Labour Party leadership is running scared of MSM. Desperately seeking its approval & only wanting to please betrays a lack of conviction. How can you stand up straight & tall without a back bone? Do you dare stop apologising & be rid of IHRA definition. Blair’s anthem Brian Cox’s ‘Things can only get bitter’ should be replaced by Bob Marley’s Get up, stand up’………..until then, everywhere is war.
We should be proud to stand in opposition to the msn.
Y’know what?..I’m just about fed up with all this antisemitic lark….Why won’t anyone name and shame the culprits…Then perhaps we can get on with getting the Tories out…
I think Watson is mid wrecking operation before he defects to the tiggers
generally all of the tig MPs troll corbyn supporters which is why i block them as they defect
Watson won’t quit because he can do more damage to Corbyn in his position as Deputy Leader. Calls for him to resign are pointless – they will be ignored as they have been in past years. My reading of the situation is that there is no appetite within the Shadow Cabinet to stand anyone against him for fear of ratcheting up the internal conflict still further. If there is to be a Deputy Leadership challenge, it may take a lone gun like Chris Williamson.
Hope so , Chris has my vote in a flash
Can one call for an election to the deps post? If so how would one kick start it. Regards
I believe there is sufficient grounds and evidence for suspending Tom Watson for bringing the party and members into disrepute.
Perhaps a mass complaint would do it.
Others have been expelled for less.
Is it possible to sue him for defamation of the party and members?
Sure there would be a a big media furore temporarily but it would be better than this drip drip damage being done at moment.
Is it possible that the ILP are still about? Couldn’t people stand in an election against sitting traitors and take advantage of our brilliant volunteers. Perhaps one could leave one party, join and stand for another, win the seat and then rejoin the original party. When quizzed as to why they left originally they simply have to say that they could no longer serve a party that is full of nobodies and that our AA’s ( artificial aristocrats ) have disgusting manners and potty mouths. The public know about these wretches and we will have a huge majority plus the police will be investigating present and historic AS and racism. I’ve been drinking a lot of catnip, sorry about the post. Here comes Nursey.