Analysis Uncategorized

Video: NATO admits missile that killed Polish citizens fired by Ukraine

‘Air defence missile’ was responsible for deaths and damage, not Russia – despite a day’s reporting otherwise by Western media

Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg has confirmed that a missile that landed in Poland, killing two people, was fired by Ukraine. Stoltenberg, remarkably, said that the incident was ‘not Ukraine’s fault’ and that Russia still bore ‘ultimately responsibility’:

The admission comes after a day of reporting by Western media that a ‘Russian missile’ had caused the deaths – and concerted attacks and smears against anyone who suggested that the missile might have been fired by Ukraine or even that judgment should be suspended until the source of the rocket was known.

Ukrainian president Zelenskyy, unsurprisingly, continues to deny that the missile was fired by his military.

With a propaganda war underway from all sides in the Ukraine conflict Western media – particularly in the UK – have continued to report inaccurately, including a bucket of ‘gold teeth’ supposedly extracted in order to torture Ukrainians that German media discovered were simply decades’ worth of teeth pulled by a Ukrainian village dentist, who tried to claim them back. Those same media are now busy trying to spin away their readiness to jump to conclusions in this incident.

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97 comments

  1. No same person is going to argue that Ukraine doesn’t have a right to defend itself from Russian’s attacks.
    However, Ukraine must have known that it was its missile that caused the two deaths across the border in Poland. How debris of a Ukraine drone end up in Polish territory, when the Russians aren’t targeting any infrastructure less than 35Km from the Polish border?
    Why didn’t Ukraine confirm that it was their missile straight away? Why point the finger at Russia? Was Zelensyi hoping to drive NATO into a war with Russia?

    1. I’m sane . And what Russia is doing in Ukraine is defending Ukrainian minority population members from fascist government attacks.
      This war was deliberately provoked by NATO to weaken Russia. They employed a fascist government in Kiev, which, like its Nazi forebears, regards Russian speakers as sub humans.
      You are on the wrong side: the same side as Starmer, the US, the media (Guardian Telegraph Mail etc and the BBC) NATO and the imperialist in general.

      1. bevin – Who’s side are you on, the corrupt wannabe imperialist dictator Putin’s?

      2. Absolutely right!
        Everything we are told by Western MSM is completely out of kilter with what is actually happening.
        It’s interesting to note that the “corrupt wannabe dictator” of Russia has been consistent in his speeches and observations.
        Since 2014, Ukraine has been an American satrap.
        For real, serious corruption, just look at the Tories and COVID. That has more bearing on us than a country far away .
        Money wasted on Ukraine – the Russians will win in the end – should be spent levelling up here.

      3. The answer to your question to bevin steveH is quite simple.

        He, and those of us who continue to bring attention to fact based evidence are on the side of the much trumpeted Western values which our elites, aided by ignorant and arrogant shills such as yourself, are consistently trashing.

        As a side note: when such elites and their paid and unpaid shills wax lyrical about values and principles (making it implicit they consider them to be superior to those of every other being and society on the planet) it behoves them to do what it says on the tin rather than conveniently and inconsistently apply them when and where to suit their deluded official narratives on the basis of do as we say not as we do.

        Any simpleton can stand up and scream “Putin” (or whoever) like they were at a football match self righteously insisting that this trumps and supersedes all facts and evidence. Such a stance is nothing more than empty virtue signalling devoid of meaning, purpose, morals and ethics. Particularity when, in your case, it is made as a deliberate choice despite having the facts already explained to you umpteen times.

        Rejecting objective facts, evidence and reality because they don’t fit what you subjectively think should be is simply the gesture politics of the nursery school.

        Those facts are, and you can check the OSCE links given to you previously, that for eight years the Regime installed in Ukraine in 2014 by the US elite establishment and their bought and paid for Western comprador class across the 15% of the people on this planet which claims to be ‘THE Free World’ using right wing neo-nazis and other fascists:

        – Murdered some 14,000 Russian speaking civilians in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of the Ukraine (known as the Donbass) because those Russian speaking citizens of the Ukraine would not vacate that land or accept the illegal coup brought on by blatant interference in the affairs of another State (the Ukraine) by the elites in the US.

        ‘Putin’ – in YOUR terms, steveH – spent eight years rejecting calls from Russian speaking citizens of the Donbass – with ties to Russia going back generations – for assistance against these genocidal attacks which involved deliberately shelling and mining of civilian areas, along with constant sniper fire. Insisting on supporting the rules based Minsk agreements despite the Ukraine Junta consistently breaking and rejecting them alongside its Western sponsors undermining them.

        Hardly the behaviour of a State intent on invading its neighbours.

        These are documented facts regardless of how loudly and consistently the willfully ignorant reject them by sticking their fingers in their ears, shutting their eyes and going ‘la la la la, Putin, la la la.’

        Similarly, whether you like it or not, to make your juvenile levle position tenable and coherent you need to explain the fact that at the beginning of this year, congruent with an OSCE documented massive increase in the shelling of Russian speaking civilians in the Donbass Oblasts of Ukraine, the bulk of the best troops in the NATO equipped and trained fascist armed forces of Ukraine were massed on the Donbass contact line rather than further north on the border with Belarus to deal with the much trumpeted statements of imminent invasion from that direction.

        If those troops were not there to imminently invade the Donbass Republics in February this year – which ‘Putin’ and the Russian Federation via its democratic processes had for eight years refused to recognise – and drive out those the Ukraine Regime spokesmen were consistently referring to as Untermenschen who they wanted to slaughter to the last woman and child what were they doing there?

        Waiting for coaches to take them on a Black Sea vacation?

        If this was the Western elites doing the same thing, as they have done countless times – again facts you been supplied with but rejected because you don’t really believe in those Western values – you would be on here screaming self defence.

        As previously pointed out, you bring nothing to the table. You have nothing to offer other than shouting school playground football terrace style inanities. You pollute this site like a parasite. It really is time you grew up and started to deal with objective reality rather than consistently confirming your own ignorance and arrogance like a dog revisiting its own vomit.

      4. Dave – What facts would they be, do you mean ‘facts’ like “Murdered some 14,000 Russian speaking civilians in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of the Ukraine (known as the Donbass)”

        Is that really what you believe?
        Back in the real world
        The TOTAL number of casualties between 04/14 and 12/21 was a little over 14k of which 3.400 were civilians from both sides. The other 11k were soldiers and militia.

      5. Bevin, I am not arguing the rights or wrongs here.
        It is clear in my mind that has Ukraine fulfil its obligations under the Minks agreements most probably Russia wouldn’t have attack.
        But, Russia has attack and it is reasonable to expect that at this juncture Ukraine is going to defend itself.
        However, it isn’t reasonable for Ukraine to cry wolf and blame Russia straight away when the Ukrainians must have known, it was their missile which caused the two Polish civilians deaths.
        At the end of the day Ukraine a non NATO’s member has attacked Poland a NATO’s member.
        Hence the questions:
        1-is NATO prepared to accept that this was an accident? The cynic in me believes that most likely this was a red flag operation trying to get NATO directly involved in the war.
        2-What NATO would do were such “accidents” persist in the future causing casualties in Poland?

      6. Start counting the number of former advisors to Obama who are to the right of Atilla the Hen, who are the go to talking heads on MSM and toilet papers with Ukraine

      7. Two Cheeks
        Ukraine 2nd most corrupt country on the planet, run by Nazis and bankrolled by your lot
        What’s not to like apart from my Grandad jumping out of his grave and kicking me in the bollocks

      8. Why would anyone care one way or t’other what Global Research publish.

      9. @Dave Hansell

        Good post, nicely written. Accurate too👏👏👏

      10. steveH,

        As any genuine current and former member of the armed forces knows civilians who take up arms to defend themselves as militias do not pass muster in any definition of professional military.

        Your pathetic attempt at using weasel terms by conflating together military and militia is pure unadulterated bullshit. By any international standard these were civilian casualties.

        https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule5

        Given that the Donbass republics are not internationally recognised as separate from the Ukraine the exception of levée en masse does not apply as the civilians taking up arms to defend themselves from attack are not internationally recognised as being invaded by a separate State.

        Indeed, in practical terms, the precedent set by the US/Coalition of the willing in their forever wars against “terrorism” of indefinitely incarcerating civilians who took up arms against them in places like Guantanamo reinforces the reality that in the international terms and definitions of conflict these 14,000 were civilians. Period. End of.

        Not my words boy, but those of the documentary evidence supplied to you in the link above.

        The subjective belief operating here is all yours.

        You’re welcome.

      11. Dave – You can waffle all you want, the figures that I have quoted are from the United Nations.
        “OHCHR estimates the total number of conflict-related casualties in Ukraine from 14 April 2014 to 31 December 2021 to be 51,000–54,0008: 14,200-14,400 killed (at least 3,404 civilians, estimated 4,400 Ukrainian forces, and estimated 6,500 members of armed groups), and 37-39,000 injured (7,000–9,000 civilians, 13,800–14,200 Ukrainian forces and 15,800-16,200 members of armed groups).

      12. “NVLA – Are you really that gullible?2

        Writes someone who picks and chooses his own facts and rejects any evidence which does not fit the fantasy world in his own head.

        Have you got any solid coherent evidence to answer the questions put to you boy? Or are you going to sit there at the back of classroom permanently wearing the class dunce’s hat?

        What a waz end you are stevie boy.

      13. Oh dear. Is that the best you can do boy? Care to test that claim in the International arena steveH?

        Ask any legal practitioner who, unlike yourself, knows their arse from a hole in the ground, which documents take precedence in terms of this definition and they will tell you that those definitions set out in the International conventions of conflict are the ones which apply.

        Arbitrary classifications for bureaucratic data collection do not represent a viable and legally recognised definition of military armed forces in Internationally accepted rules based treaties and conventions.

        You can bullshit all you want but your subjective version of reality will not stand scrutiny in the real world. These people were and are classed as civilians in International law.

        Do your research properly and stop wasting peoples time with this kindergarden level turd polishing.

      14. Dave – You can argue the toss all you like but I’m simply quoting the figures from the UN. Whether you choose to accept them or not is entirely up to you, either way it’s not going to change the facts or effect me one iota. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

    2. Maria….. “.was zelensky hoping to drive Nato into a war” yes! most definitely and more important a nuclear confrontation that will ensure mutual distruction for everyone in Britain and europe.!This comedian \actor is actually worse than the second rate me me me attempting to run europe and Britain..Amateur politicians with few morals will be the death of all of us unless a breath of sanity and fresh air arrives soon.We should also be looking closely at the storytelling of the media especially the British media that seek to inflame a very dangerous situation….as per usual!

    3. Once more the murky fingerprint of the Ukro-Nazis is evident. It seems that Zelensky is really running scared after they threatened to hang him from a tree if he dared to stage peace talks with the Russians. I agree with Maria that he was probably trying to drive NATO into a war with Russia. Zelensky is a war criminal. After being responsible for the deaths of thousands of his countrymen and women with his insistence that “we will fight to the last Ukrainian”, he is now trying to provoke the nuclear holocaust that could end all life on the planet.

      Words fail me. Hopefully Zelensky will face the 21st century equivalent of the Nuremburg Trials one day. It cannot come sooner.

    4. The MSM gave all possibilities from the start – and would not commit themselves.

      I watched from the start and there was huge confusion with commentators bombarding
      presenters with simultaneous messages. However what they tried to make clear was
      that the expected reaction was a NATO meeting whatever the cause of the explosion.

      I wonder if Zelenski knew definitely? I think he was angry and lashed out – which is understandable after the massive attack by Russia.

      As for blaming Russia in spite of this being Ukrainian missile – it was
      Russia who started this – in February (more recently) and further back
      in 2014 by pretending their soldiers were tourists. This came as a shock
      to Russian mothers who later received their “tourist” sons dead remains.
      Terrible things happen in war ..

      THere are no more options now for Russia – their population realises
      they have been told lies .

  2. The question to be asked is: Was this an error by the Ukrainians or was it an attempt at a false flag operation?

    1. Goldbach, taking into account:
      – Zelensky unsavoury past
      – the Russians were not attacking any Ukranian targets within less than 35Km from the Polish border —- Ukraine quickly blaming the Russian when they must have known that it was their missile.
      Nobody is going to be able to offer proof one way or the other, but the cynic in my believes it has a higher probability of this been a false flag operation, the moment the Ukranians started blaming the Russians in earnest.
      Who has the highest interest in NATO entering the world? Wouldn’t it be Ukraine?

      1. Interestingly, I hear that the judge in the Netherlands is preparing his judgement on the MH17 investigation, and it should be ready to be read out soon.

      2. https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2022/11/17/photos-dutch-court-convicts-three-men-over-mh17-downing
        A Dutch court has convicted three men of murder for their role in shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 over Ukraine in 2014 and sentenced them to life in prison. A fourth man was acquitted.
        MH17, a passenger flight, was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, killing all 298 people on board.
        The three men convicted in absentia were former Russian intelligence agents Igor Girkin and Sergey Dubinskiy, and Leonid Kharchenko, a Ukrainian separatist leader.

      3. Yes, indeed, it is as one would expect.
        1. A missile is deemed to have hit an aeroplane in error, in attempting to hit a military aircraft. Result – it is deemed to be murder.
        2, A missile is deemed to have hit a tractor in error, in attempting to hit another missile. Result – an unfortunate accident.
        No surprise there then.

    2. I seem to remember reading somewhere recently that Russia was expecting a false flag attack from Ukraine at some point by mid-November, probably during COP27. (With the wealth of reading online one does nowadays, it’s hard to recall where I read it, but if I find it, I’ll post it here).

      1. Oh, funnee!

        As I’m sure you’re aware, Global Research is just a conduit, they don’t actually produce their own content. In the case of the interviews by Redacted with Retd. Col. MacGregor, the words are clearly his own, spoken on camera.

  3. Several observations occur:

    – The Corporate Media and Political elite across the 15% of humanity which refers to itself as the West have been telling us on a regular basis since at least March this year that the Russian Federation has run out of missiles.

    Consequently, the question arises as to which is the blatant lie being used to gaslight those of us who happen by accident of birth to live in this part of the planet;

    A. That the RF has run out of missiles?
    B. That the RF is still firing missiles?

    – The same Media Elite and Clownfish Politicians also told us that the Russian Federation were, as a result of sanctions, reduced to having to use washing machine chips in the few, if any, missiles they had left.

    Again the question arises as to which is the lie we are being fed here:

    A. That the RF is reduced to having to use spare chip parts out of scrap domestic appliances?
    B. That if the ‘state of the art’ Air Defence Systems supplied by NATO to the Ukraine is so all singing all dancing why is it that it cannot successfully intercept missiles operated by chips from scrap laundry appliances?

    – Again, the same sources insist that every single missile, which the RF no longer have because they have run out, is successfully intercepted by these all singing all dancing superior Western technology Air Defence Systems. whose missiles never ever go astray, honest, cross our hearts and hope to die.

    And again the question occurs as to which is the lie?

    A. That all no missiles get through because the Air Defence Systems intercept them all?
    B. That missiles, which the RF don’t have but which at the same time are all successfully intercepted, are systematically damaging the energy and transport infrastructure across the Ukraine?

    Moving on:

    It would seem reasonable to assume that the much trumpeted by our political and media class Western Values are applied consistently.

    The Official Narrative (TON), having now conceded that the missile which took out a tractor and cost the lives of two civilians in Poland, a NATO Member State, originated from within the Ukraine, seems to be silent on one salient point;

    Which is that a NATO member State (Poland) has been the subject of an unprovoked aggressive attack from a non-NATO Member State (Ukraine) in the form of a missile originating from the Ukraine exploding on Polish territory.

    Unless NATO, our Clownfish politicians and Corporate Media are going to conveniently apply those oft trumpeted Western Values inconsistently there seems little option for NATO to invoke Article 5 of its Charter to deal with this attack on a NATO Member State by the Nazi regime in the Ukraine.

    After all, if that principle is good enough to apply to, say, a Russian (or even a Chinese) missile attack on a NATO member – and who can doubt or argue that this would not be the case – it is surely good enough to apply to this case of, I believe the usual phrase is, ‘Naked Aggression’ by the Nazis in Ukraine against NATO Member Poland.

    Surely NATO, our Clownfish politicians and Corporate media are not going to shit on those Western Values they claim to hold so dear by opting to be hypocrites and apply double standards?

    Say it ain’t so!

    What’s that I hear? It was an accident! The Ukraine missile missed its intercept because the washing machine chips in Russian missiles – which they ran out of six months ago – caused it to fly 70km (42 miles) north over the Polish border rather than falling to earth and demolishing a local tower block in downtown Lviv like the evidence demonstrates they have been doing since the start of this iteration of the War which commenced in 2014!

    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/11/another-ukrainian-missile-stunt.html#more

    Really?

    I’ll get the popcorn in.

    It’s going to be really, really interesting to see how this is going to be spun.

    And it’s going to be even more interesting to see who, and how many, fall for the steaming pile of turd being polished at this juncture.

    1. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-missiles-hit-poland-live-28501715
      “10:09am KEY EVENT
      Western officials believe missile was from Ukraine’s air-defence system
      Western officials believe the missile that landed in Poland was from a Ukrainian air-defence system, the Wall Street Journal reports.
      Russia said it bombarded Ukrainian military and energy targets on Tuesday, although it denied firing any missiles within 22 miles of the Ukrainian-Polish border.
      The Kremlin added that pictures of the remnants of the missile that landed in Poland sugget it was a Ukrainian S-300.

      1. It was, indeed, an S300. Seems to have been way off course. Anything coming in that direction from Russian forces would have been coming from the east or south-east, not from the north.

  4. Meanwhile, the OBR has just published data saying that the hole in the UK’s finances is not £50bn. It is £70bn. Ah well, what’s £20bn between friends?

  5. ‘The Peskey Russians did it.
    Warmonger Stoltenberg first said.
    Then he did a double somersault.
    As the truth it raised it’s head!’
    No to US, UK, EC, Ukraine, Russia Oligarchs, Yes to Peace Now!

    1. Misfiring air defence missiles that have caused damage and casualties in residential areas have routinely been reported as Russian atrocities. The footage used as evidence indiscriminate targeting of civilians.
      When this incident happend those hoping for war escalation, the Ukrainians, Poles, the Baltic States and hawks in the west must be dumbfounded that NATO has held back this time.

      1. The problem is that the Ukrainians have consistently placed artillery and similar military resources, such as tanks, in residential areas. That in itself is a war crime, and can be expected from their record as very right wing.

  6. Russia has been firing missiles at Ukrainian targets.
    The Ukranians attempt to shoot them down using air-defence missiles.
    Many of the air defence missiles miss their targets and have to land somewhere.

    Problem with the lies seems to be that Polish sources released photos of missile debris.
    This has enabled both NATO and Russian sources to identify the rogue missile , with a high degree of probability, as follows:

    The missile(s) that impacted Polish territory near the Ukrainian border very much looks like a 5V55K from the S-300 series … very likely supplied to UKR by Poland.
    The 5V55K is an old Soviet produced missile (1978/82) for the S-300 air defense system that the Ukraine is using against Russian cruise missiles. Its nominal range in air defense mode is 75 kilometer. If it fails to hit its target the debris is likely to fall at somewhat around that range. Przewodow in Poland (50.47099 lat, 23.93432 lon) where the missile landed, is some 70 kilometer northward of Lviv in Ukraine.
    Meanwhile, UK and USA continue to supply UKR with mountains of armaments … as long as there are enough surviving UKR army to use them.

    UKR losses of fighters and weaponry are very high.
    Especially-high are the losses of the NATO-supplied M777 155mm howitzer units.
    These were predicted to turn the balance of artillery superiority in favour of UKR, but have failed to do so.

    Flag-waving in Kherson may look good in the western media but is little use in the face of superior Russian army numbers and artillery.

    1. The Poles should buy a decent air defence system from the Russians, and be ready to grab the chunk of Ukraine that they claim is theirs, when the Russians decide to end this situation.

  7. Off subject, an unfortunate turn of events.

    Rachel Riley has been awarded £50,000 in damages after a political blogger libelled her as “serial abuser” who had bullied a teenager during an anti-Semitism debate.
    The host of the Channel 4 show, Countdown, sued Mike Sivier after he published an article on his website, Vox Political, in January 2019 with the headline: “Serial abuser Rachel Riley to receive ‘extra protection’ – on grounds that she is receiving abuse”.

  8. They knew exactly what was going on as it landed.

    First clue: Russian made.

    But things get really interesting when you look at the surveillance going on.

    NATO E-3A Sentry 31,000ft Bulgaria NATO01
    NATO E-3A Sentry 31,000ft Moldova NATO11
    NATO E-3A Sentry 18,000ft Germany NATO02

    NATO RC135 Rivet Joint 33,000ft JAKE11 This all seeing drone was right above the landing point on the Polish/Ukraine border.

    Was also a NATO RQ-4D Phoenix 55,000ft Romania UAVGH000

    They tried to false flag WW3.

  9. @SteveH

    Away with your allegations. Allegations have told us Putin’s gonna die of cancer more times than is remotely believable. Give us facts.

    As for dead people, maybe you should look into the Clinton body bags? Maybe you should look into folks like Johnny Chung? There’s at least 23 people on that list. And it don’t matter who you are, or were…

    Maybe we should talk about Gary Webb? Suicide by double tap to the back of the head…Dr Udo Ulfkotte? Damned inconvenient book that. Imagine getting rubbed out because of something you wrote…

    Could go on. Here’s the problem. Shouting about someone’s stink when you’re dirty yourself doesn’t work. Highlights hypocrisy. Not a good look.

    There ain’t going to be a winner in this. Back down from the mess your ilk have created.

    Or get factor five million sunblock.

      1. I didn’t mention accusations or even ‘accusations’…

        Must be frustrating knowing your losing the narrative. I can feel it from here.

  10. Concerning Ukraine…

    FTX crashed earlier this week. Seems the cryto exchange was being used to launder money.

    US government money sent to Ukraine for war was being used by the Ukrainian government to buy crypto via FTX that somehow ended up as donations to the US Democrat party.

    There is speculation that the missile was done to get FTX out of the news. Maybe it’s because if the money laundering, or maybe it’s that it goes deeper still…

    FTX funded the fraudulent together trial that tried to kill Ivermectin and HCQ…

    This goes very, very deep. Doubt it? The exchange’s owner, Sam Bankman-Fried has some interesting connections. Mother is a fundraiser for the democratic party, Dad is a Professor at Stanford and goes on from there. Does anyone believe that he’ll be charged with anything?

      1. It’s in the same place your evidence is. The internet. Off you pop.

        Maybe start with looking at the paperwork released by Binance when they mulled over buying FTX? Maybe read Twitter to see posts by Bankman-Fried himself? Why not check out the rest of the FTX team and see where their names lead?

        You’re a big boy, no?

      2. To add, the latest episode in this scandal is that SBF was suing customers money to buy puff pieces from the media. Vox and others are named. This is happening right now, so chop chop lad!

        Corrupted shits…

      3. NVLA – I’m guessing that unintelligible drivel made sense inside your head but unfortunately something got lost in the translation.

  11. ‘Which side are you on?’ …………..when truth is the 1st casualty of war; it is also the 2nd & the 3rd & the 4th etc, I no longer expect anyone to tell THE Truth as everyone always has an axe to grind but the BBC was still stating on ‘Newsnight’, late last night, that the missile that killed 2 civilians in Poland was fired by Russians & therefore a new air-defence system must be employed by ‘Western’ govt’s. Similarly no debate on the sabotage of ;Nordstream 2′ nor reference to any investigation. This has serious consequences that have been ignored.
    I despise war & this is no exception, as both sides have committed war crimes, but the 4th Estate in UK (aka BBC & Channel4) has a legal responsibility to be (what may be described) as truthful & not just a platform for a very disfunctional Tory Party & NATO.
    Which side am I on? It appears that I am on the outside.

    1. Is that really what they actually said on Newsnight, or is that your interpretation of what they said?

      1. Alexannder Danuk (ex Head of Ukranian Security) claimed that Russia was still responsible because the event took place during a Russian attack.

      2. Yes, pretty much everyone on Newsnight; Sky News. GB News et al, in fact everybody involved in MSM in Britain & USA said exactly the same thing at exactly the same time, almost as though the whole thing was carefully scripted. So much for diversity of opinion.

  12. Meanwhile, former CIA operative Larry Johnson here:

    https://sonar21.com/ukraines-epic-fail-at-manufacturing-a-false-flag/

    Makes the following observations:

    – “The missile was a S-300. Originally manufactured in the Soviet Union in the late 1970s.

    – The S-300 only has a maximum range of 160 miles (that assumes it is a S-300VM).

    – The missile landed in the Polish village of Przewodów in the east of the country, about four miles from the Ukrainian border. Przewodów is the red dot on the following map.

    – The closest Russian ground forces, who in theory could have launched this missile, are located east of Kherson. The distance from Przewodow to Kherson is 613 miles. That distance exceeds the capability of the S-300 by a factor of 3.5.

    – The S-300 was fired by Ukrainian forces located somewhere to the west of Kiev. It is highly likely that U.S. and Russian satellites recorded this launch. In other words, both sides know where the S-300 originated.”

    He then applies some basic geography:

    “It is highly unlikely — hell, impossible — that this was an “errant” missile that Ukraine fired in a moment of desperation trying to take down an in bound Russian missile.

    Why?

    The Russian missiles are flying from the south to the north or from the east to the west. That means if Ukraine is firing an anti-missile defense system at those inbound missiles the Ukrainian missile would travel from west to east.

    But that is not what happened here. The S-300 traveled east to west. Unless the Ukrainian operator who launched the S-300 was drunk on his ass, it is impossible to “accidentally” fire this air defense missile in the wrong direction.”

    42 miles/70km in the wrong direction.

    The obvious conclusion being that this was an attempt by the Nazi Regime in Ukraine at a false flag aimed at directly involving NATO formally to force the application of Article 5.

    More on this in a separate post to follow.

  13. This piece details how the propaganda model we are being gaslighted with operates using this claimed Russian missile attack as an example:

    https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/11/16/how-a-lightly-sourced-ap-story-almost-set-of-world-war-iii/

    “at 2 pm, just as it had started to become clear that Russia was an unlikely culprit, AP News published a one-sentence, one-source story that would prove remarkably consequential: “A senior U.S. intelligence official says Russian missiles crossed into NATO member Poland, killing two people.”

    Within minutes, prominent media personalities had already started to call on NATO to invoke Article V, which mandates that member states meet to determine a collective response whenever one of them is attacked. (It is worth noting that, contrary to popular belief, Article V does not prescribe a rapid response, and Congress would likely have to approve such a move.)

    At 2:10 pm, Nika Melkozerova, a Ukrainian journalist with a significant following in the West, tweeted “So.. article 5?” Melkozerova softened her comment 20 minutes later, calling on concerned parties to “wait for official information.”

    But Lesia Vasylenko, a member of Ukraine’s parliament, had no such compunction. The lawmaker simply tweeted out the phrase “Article 5” at 2:29 pm, adding later that Russian President Vladimir Putin was “testing the limits” with the strikes and that “reaction=appeasement.”

    Paul Massaro, a prominent American supporter of Ukraine and member of the U.S. Helsinki Commission, said around the same time that “Russian terrorism” had reached Poland, adding shortly after that it was “[h]ard to believe this was an accident.”

    Some NATO leaders seemed to follow in Massaro and Vasylenko’s footsteps. “Very concerned by Russian missiles dropping in Poland,” tweeted Slovakian Defense Minister Jaroslav Nad at 2:46 pm. “Will be in close contact with [NATO allies] to coordinate [a] response.”

    A “senior European diplomat” echoed Nad in a Politico piece, saying that it was “appalling to see a desperate regime attacking critical infrastructure of Ukraine and hitting allied territory with victims.” (The diplomat did hedge by noting that the author of the attack was not yet confirmed.)

    The Pentagon’s spokesman had the misfortune of having already scheduled a press conference for 2 pm, when little was known about the blast. “I don’t want to speculate when it comes to our security commitments and Article 5,” Patrick Ryder said, noting that he could not confirm AP’s report. “But we have made it crystal clear that we will protect every inch of NATO territory.”

    The boilerplate promise to defend “every inch of NATO territory” earned an outsized response.

    Given Russia’s purported senseless attack on NATO, nothing less than the organization’s very credibility as a collective defense organization was at stake.

    Or at least that is what Anders Aslund of the Atlantic Council argued at around 3:30 pm. In a message aimed directly at President Joe Biden, Aslund said, “You have promised to defend ‘every inch of NATO territory.’ Are you going to bomb Russia now?” He added that Biden’s first move should be to establish a no-fly zone in Ukraine before “clean[ing] out the Russian Black Sea fleet.”

    At the same time, Sergej Sumlenny, a prominent European policy expert, implied in a viral tweet that the attack was an intentional extension of Russia’s assault on Ukrainian infrastructure.

    Shortly after, Mykhailo Podolyak, one of the top advisors to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, declared that the strikes were “not an accident, but a deliberately planned ‘hello’ from [Russia], disguised as a ‘mistake.’”

    Russia denied the claim, saying that “[n]o strikes on targets near the Ukrainian-Polish state border were made by Russian means of destruction.” But, somewhat understandably for many of Ukraine’s supporters, Russia’s word no longer holds much purchase.

    Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba responded at 4:35 pm that Moscow “promotes a conspiracy theory that it was allegedly a missile of Ukrainian air defense” that hit Poland. “No one should buy Russian propaganda or amplify its messages,” Kuleba added. Around the same time, Zelensky tweeted that the “Russian attack on collective security in the Euro-Atlantic is a significant escalation” of the conflict.

    Luckily, the Biden administration didn’t take the bait. Despite the sharp words from Kyiv, U.S. and Polish officials maintained that the origin of the missiles was unclear and insisted that they needed more time to investigate the incident. At 7 pm, Biden, who is currently in Bali for the G20 conference, offered “full support” for Warsaw’s investigation following a call with Polish President Andrzej Duda.

    Speculation and calls for escalation continued to run rampant as officials from across the West held emergency meetings. It took until nearly midnight for AP News to finally report that “[t]hree U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian one amid the crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday.””

    This chain of events is no different in approach to that of silly little schoolboy level shills like steveH. Picking and choosing when and when not to apply stated supposed universal/general principles and values to suit convenience.

    Hannah Ardent recognised such people for what they are in her observation:

    “What makes it so plausible to assume that hypocrisy is the vice of vices is that integrity can indeed exist under the cover of all other vices except this one. Only crime and the criminal, it is true, confront us with the perplexity of radical evil; but only the hypocrite is really rotten to the core.”

    Currently, nothing is more rotten to the core than the institutions of the West and their little shill lap dogs like steveH projecting their incoherent bullshit vomit all over the place.

    No waiting about for evidence or investigation. We say someone is guilty of X therefore by definition this must be and is so in order to justify further carnage to meet their insatiable need to punish anyone and everyone who does not agree with their mardy arsed tantrums.

    And suddenly, very predictably, the calls for invoking NATO Article 5 have disappeared into the memory hole just like in Orwell’s 1984 novel.

    No one today is seeking to invoke Article 5 against Ukraine for a missile which went 42 miles in the 180 degree opposite direction to which it should have been fired IF it had really been attempting to shoot down Russian missiles traveling from East to West or South to North.

    So here’s a challenge steveH to see if you have the gumption to prove you are not a hypocrite applying double standards:

    Unless you can demonstrate with solid physical evidence that a missile 180 degrees and 42 miles off course was not deliberately targeting a NATO State you are expected to commit in writing on this site your support for the argument that NATO Article 5 should be invoked against Ukraine in the same way it was argued that it should be invoked against Russia by those, who like yourself, don’t need evidence to act in such a way.

    No one here is holding their breath though.

    1. Dave – You are right not to hold your breath – the premise of your question is bollocks

      1. Why? What evidence do you cite? What is your argument? Have you got an argument of any kind or are you running away again?

        In fact what you have done here for all to see is prove my point for me.

        steveH, the numpty that keeps on giving. And what makes it even more hilariously and pathetically sad is that he does not even realise this is the case.

        Still, at least we all know that in a far flung corner of the empire upon which the sun never sets there is in the Caribbean a village with a bona fide functioning Village Idiot.

      2. The precise wording of Article 5 of the Washington Treaty is unimportant SteveH. It commits each member state to consider an armed attack against one member state, in this case, Poland, to be an armed attack against them all. The ball is in Poland’s court, so to speak. Do you think it’ll sanction its fascist neighbour, Ukraine?

      3. qwertboi – “The precise wording of Article 5 of the Washington Treaty is unimportant SteveH”

        Don’t be silly. What was it about the text published on NATO’s own website that didn’t fit in with your agenda.

    2. Dave Hansell, why are you trying to convince the Starmer Troll. He gets paid to wind you up.

  14. Well done Dave Hansell Youve just pointed out that the crazy Nazis and Zelensky have attempted to start a War directly with Nato forces and no doubt dragging the West into a possible Nucluer standoff .with Russia and its allies .Even Biden and his masters must be shocked that the comedian has started to believe is own propaganda and gone “off message” ….I wonder what they think now of the plan to overturn Russia and give China a warning?…..No diplomacy and bankrobing sanctions has managed to unite the eastern world into the threat of western imperialism.and the new world order.Maybe some good can come out of the Ukrainian fiasco after a long hard winter for the western world and a return to sane diplomacy without warmongers..

  15. As early as 1961, US President Eisenhower warned against the influence of a US industrial-military complex. Now we hear the Tory Chancellor blaming the Russians for inflation…….a very convenient war

    1. steve101704….Well said. Eisenhower was before his time, because that Complex almost certainly did for JFK, who wanted world peace and a détente with Russia.

  16. A pity that he managed to get everyone engaged with his disinformation campaign.
    1. The official US version of events is that the missile was very likely to have been fired by Ukraine [The US is not prone to exaggerated statements about such things. This is code for they did fire it.]
    2. The US says that there have been over 100k Ukrainian soldiers killed [Not forgetting the civilians – both Ukrainian and Russian speaking, and the Russian soldiers]. What a dreadful situation. Will the US ever tire of their forever wars?
    3. Some members of the US administration are now floating the idea of negotiations.
    4. However, on this site we get the usual “Putin”, “dictator”, “apologist” twaddle – If you can’t make a good argument just sling out insults. It’s one of the disinformation tactics.
    5. What our resident armchair warrior says is irrelevant. What happens on the ground is what counts. Come back in January.

    1. It seems that the Ukrainians are still maintaining that it was the Russians wot done it.
      The Poles are refusing to acknowledge that it was a Ukrainian missile.
      Why?
      It seems that the photos of the missile that showed it to be Ukrainian were taken by someone local to the scene and put on the internet, as opposed to being released by the Polish government. Maybe, if this hadn’t happened, the narrative would still be that it was the Russians
      Could it be that the Poles don’t want to acknowledge that the Ukrainians could have made a mistake?
      Or could it be that it was, indeed, an attempted false flag and that the Poles were in on it?
      We’ll almost certainly never know – the “fog of war”.

  17. NATO admits Ukraine responsible for ‘rogue’ missile attack in Poland………eventually, because they could no longer sustain their ‘default’ position of an instant blame game. Now, suddenly, every MSM organisation is saying exactly the same thing again @ precisely the same time ‘that it was an old rocket manufactured by the Soviets that went astray’ therefore proving that MSM reports can be trusted.

      1. ………….. and sometimes it changes when those promoting a narrative are exposed.

  18. SteveH – even you must admit that a totally compliant MSM in GB & USA is not good for democracy & it is the function of the 4th Estate to hold the gov’t to account. Does it matter who owns & controls MSM? I wonder what Julian Assange would say?

    1. If those in the media who have been reporting the serial lies told by the Ukrainian government as though it was the unvarnished truth, actually believed it to be so, they are incompetent fools who don’t know that REAL journalists will check stories, particularly stories of such gravity, before printing anything and they should be in a different job.
      If they did not believe what they were being told, they are dishonest and should be in a different job.

  19. Re: The other missile
    One wonders how the Dutch court came to its findings when the “clear evidence” of where the missile was fired from is supposedly held by US intelligence and John Kerry refuses to release it. Surely the court didn’t simply take his word for it?

  20. It gets more and more interesting.
    It seems that FTX, the US-based crypto-currency trader that just went bottom up had been involved in some unorthodox money transfers which included millions of dollars to the DNC, and millions of dollars to “Ukraine”.

    1. goldbach – Without further details it is difficult to decipher whether your revelations have any significance. Can you give us a link to your source material.

  21. Be patient, young feller. Everything comes to he who waits.
    I heard the references in an interview with Daniel McAdams.
    I haven’t found the interview again but I have found what I believe must have been the article he was referring to. I attach it below.
    McAdams seems to have referred to the suspicions about the DNC as though they were already confirmed, so we must wait for further information about that. The Ukraine connection is clearly evidenced though, and it would appear that McAdams’ “millions'” was actually at least a billion.
    https://thegrayzone.com/2022/11/15/ftx-ukraine-western-aid/

    1. goldbach – Follow the link below to read the full article.

      Posts spin baseless theory about FTX, Ukraine and Democrats
      “After Russia invaded Ukraine, the ministry [Ukraine Ministry for Digital Transformation] said, a new crypto fundraising foundation called Aid For Ukraine began taking donations to help the Ukrainian war effort. The ministry said it “provided informational support” to the foundation, which was run by the cryptocurrency exchange Kuna and the blockchain company Everstake.
      In early March, Aid For Ukraine began working with FTX to convert cryptocurrency donations into Ukraine’s government-issued currency, a partnership that ended in April 2022, according to the ministry.
      Sergey Vasylchuk, the CEO of Everstake, told the AP that cryptocurrencies were an efficient way to raise funds for Ukraine to defend itself amid Russia’s invasion. He said FTX was only used in the beginning of the war to convert cryptocurrency donations. The donations would then get sent to the National Bank of Ukraine and no crypto was stored on FTX.
      “It was eight months ago and the goal was that Aid for Ukraine was to supply the needs as soon as possible,” Vasylchuk said when asked about the relationship between Aid for Ukraine and FTX. FTX’s bankruptcy filing did not affect the operation of Aid For Ukraine.
      Michael Chobanian, the founder of the Kuna exchange, said they had converted cryptocurrencies to U.S. dollars through FTX and deposited them in the national bank of Ukraine at the beginning of the war.
      “That is it,” Chobanian said in a message over Telegram Wednesday.
      The Ministry of Digital Transformation added that it “has never funded FTX” and “has never worked with any political party of the United States of America.”………..
      ……White House spokesperson Robyn Patterson said any claim that U.S. assistance to Ukraine has “been diverted to aid American political parties is unequivocally false and not grounded in reality.”
      https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-ftx-ukraine-democrats-laundering-996663874380

  22. A minor correction.
    There really do seem to have been large transfers to the DNC. It is whether they were “unorthodox” which is not yet clear.

    1. The details contained in the above fact-check article seems to clarify the issue.

      1. “Fact check”???? Don’t make me laugh.
        Who are the checkers.

      2. goldbach – Have you read the full article. I’m a little surprised that you were gullible enough to be taken in by this barely plausible conspiracy theory. Didn’t you think to do some basic checking before you posted this nonsense.

      3. goldbach – You’re welcome. 😉
        It’s just a shame that you didn’t think to check the veracity of what you’d heard on some random blog before proselytising this nonsense.

      4. Please learn the difference between a “random blog” and a well known news site.
        I don’t know whether you are just a simple unsophisticated consumer of propaganda or are wilfully spreading disinformation.
        Whichever it is have a nice Christmas but just stick to watching the goats.

      5. goldbach – You are the one that can’t remember where you first heard this nonsense.
        I heard the references in an interview with Daniel McAdams.
        I haven’t found the interview again but I have found what I believe must have been the article he was referring to.

        Is this the video that you are putting up as evidence to support your assertions? It took me just a few seconds to find it. http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2022/november/17/was-ftx-a-democrat-money-laundering-scheme/
        Were you for some reason ‘shy’ about revealing your source ?

        ps: What misinformation would that be, you’re the one making all the baseless assertions.

      6. Yes. Ron Paul it was. A strange bumbly old buffer. It “popped up” and led me to quickly move away from it, but to search for something that catalogued it more lucidly, and I came across The Grayzone.
        You still have this strange idea that The Grayzone (award-winning etc.) is “some random blog” but that the Press Association is perfectly independent and neutral. Bizarre.
        Some time ago I read an excellent article called something like “Who checks the fact checkers?”. See if you can find it.
        Oh, and it wasn’t “misinformation” it was “disinformation”.
        Over to you. After all, narcissists have to have the last word.

    1. With a Republican majority in the House we may, just possibly, find out.
      Could it be connected with a back pocket?

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