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Bolton NE Labour members condemn Starmer’s assault on anti-war movement

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222 Comments on Bolton NE Labour members condemn Starmer’s assault on anti-war movement

CLP condemns Russian invasion, right’s exploitation and calls for UK to end status as ‘investment destination’ for ‘corrupt elites’ in Russia and worldwide

Bolton North East Labour members have ‘comfortably’ passed a motion condemning both Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine and Keir Starmer’s assault on the anti-war movement. Starmer has accused the Stop the War movement of promoting Putin’s agenda, despite StW’s statements against the invasion, and threatened a number of left Labour MPs with expulsion from the party if they didn’t pull out of a rally organised by the group.

Bolton NE members also condemned right-wing attempts to exploit the crisis for their own racist aims and the UK’s willingness to act as an ‘investment destination’ for ‘corrupt elites’ and its selectivity in the international crimes it condemns.

The full resolution reads:

Ukraine

  1. This CLP condemns Vladimir Putin’s decision to order Russian military forces to invade Ukraine and demands an immediate ceasefire. For one country to make first use of military force against another and to invade and occupy it, are always illegal acts of aggression. The Russian invasion has already led to thousands of people losing their lives, the senseless destruction of buildings and infrastructure, environmental harms, and to millions fleeing their homes as refugees.
  2. We stand in solidarity with the ordinary people of Ukraine and affirm their right to national self-determination, to reform their own political system, and to protest and resist the Russian invasion and occupation.
  3. We welcome the anti-war movement in Russia and support Russian troops refusing to participate in the war. We condemn the crackdown by the Russian government on anti-\var protesters and on independent media in Russia. We oppose Russophobia and discrimination against ordinary Russian people or culture because of the actions of Russia’s rulers.
  4. We condemn any far right or fascist group, on either side of the conflict, seeking to take advantage of this war to exploit ethnic tensions and build their own organisation.
  5. Russia’s war against Ukraine is in part also a conflict between the United States and Russia over Ukraine’s possible future membership of the NATO nuclear alliance, and Russia’s reckless invasion risks escalation to a global nuclear war.
  6. We believe Western governments have a duty to the people of Ukraine and the world to support diplomatic efforts for a negotiated peace and Russian withdrawal. They should not make NATO expansion an obstacle to these aims. We are totally opposed to NATO military forces joining a war in Ukraine and believe the statements of the US President ruling out a NATO ‘no fly zone’ over Ukraine should be kept to.
  7. In dangerous times, it is important to listen to anti-war voices and longstanding critics of our own foreign policy, rather than silence or smear them. We express our dismay at reports that some Labour MPs were forced by the leadership to withdraw their signatures from a Stop the War statement and that the labour Party has suspended Young Labour’s access to twitter, apparently because of criticisms of Boris Johnson and NATO.
  8. We call on the Labour Party leadership to support the demand of Ukraine’s social movement to cancel Ukraine’s international debts, as part of an expanded programme of humanitarian relief and economic reconstruction. We also call on Labour to support visa free access for all refugees from Ukraine and other international conflicts.
  9. Labour should promote measures to end the UK being used as an investment destination by corrupt elites in Russia and around the world, and to cease shoring up autocratic fossil fuel producers by rapid development of renewable energy. It should champion a foreign policy based on peace and consistent, not selective, opposition to international crimes.
  10. 10, A copy of this motion should be sent to the Shadow Foreign Secretary, David Lammy.

Members of the CLP and the CLP itself have stood up against the anti-democratic bullying of the Labour leadership but now face likely censure. Keir Starmer has said that anyone who criticises NATO has no place in ‘his’ party.

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222 comments

  1. What a load of wishy washy nonsense, the Ukrainians need weapons not fine words.

    Reply

    1. The whole of Starmer’s Guardian article of 10.2.22 is at my Instagram brian.precious.7. It includes Starmer’s infamous accusation that “the likes of Stop the War ” are “naive at best” or actively “give succour ” to invaders. So well done Bolton NE.

      Reply

      2. Brian, what is an Instagram? I’m not on Twitter or Facebook or anything. Does one have to join? My knowledge is shallow and my tame teenage neighbour is on holiday. I have a phone does it work on that. Have I been missing out on a resource platform for bloody years? Thanks.

    2. Starmer has quickly shown himself to be the biggest albatross ever to fasten itself around Labour’s neck. He & Evans have bankrupted a party left £13m in black by Corbyn , expelled members on trumped up charges, and he got his leadership position by deliberately throwing his own party to the wolves at GE19. . Starmer will do so again as Tories will crush Labour as long as he remains leader- and Starmer doesn’t care.

      Reply

      1. Brian – You are of course entitled to your opinions even if they are at odds with the poll results

      1. qwertboi – Good, they need all the help they can get to defeat the invasion from Putin’s corrupt dictatorship. I also hear that NATO are gong to supply them with a missile defence system which is more good news.

      2. I knew you were exceptionally stupid but it’s rare to come across somebody looking forward to a nuclear exchange. There will never be peace or even a cease fire with the Ukrainian extremists armed to the teeth.

      3. I am a Socialist! How dare you support Ukrainian Nazi’s Just because you are too simple minded to realise the lies the Tories tell you FFS !!!

      4. SteveH
        Russia has been piss farming about to keep carnage and slaughter to a minimum, all you are doing is inviting the Russian equivalent of ‘shock and awe’
        When it comes to obliterating entire populations West is best
        What WWIII looks like
        Vesuvius x 1 trillion
        You get to wear your underpants internally

    5. Captured Ukrainian soldiers are admitting to simply carrying anti tank weapons due to fact they have zero training on the weapons.

      The big ones cost £80k a pop. It’s another £100k if you want the launcher. We’ve sent between £250 and £500 million in useless weapons. What would that buy the NHS or do for homelessness? Could save a penny or three on fuel, no?

      Meanwhile in Germany, sunflower oil has gone from €2 a litre to €11. On Monday, the German retailers association announced rises between 20-50%

      The international community which in reality consists five eyes and their loyal cling-ons are collectively suiciding. Well, not all of them. America seems to still be buying from Russia. We would be too if we were not led by complete morons.

      It’s sickening to see very little left wing commenting on what’s happened in Ukraine since 2014. It’s even more sickening to call for more weaponry. Criminal even.

      Ukraine has lost, and so has the west.

      Now that we’re shifting back to gold backing, where is everyone’s gold that the BoE has. Germany still hasn’t got theirs back and it became quite undiplomatic. But you would when someone has your money.

      Some serious chickens coming home to roost, so you’d better double down and then some Luke. It’s shit or bust time

      Reply

      1. NVLA – Is that what the Russians are telling their tank crews. All the pictures of Russian armour with missing gun turrets would seem to indicate that they are quite effective.

      2. I’ve seen one or two. Saw a very successful ambush against two russian tanks from a drone camera. Amazing footage.

        But most have been Ukrainian. You can tell by the fact the Ukrainians have that stupid digital camouflage, Russia does not. Also, the DIY metal grid solution for reactive armour is different. One is horizontal, the other vertical.

        Ukrainians are getting pasted. Large amount of Ukrainian marines surrendered today after their boss died.

        Also, seems a certain General Coultier got captured today. Of AFRICOM. There’s another who’s name escapes me. Possibly still US and UK operatives in Mariupol.

        Disavowed?

      3. NVLA – Really? 🙄, Why are you cheerleading for Putin?

      4. I very much agree. What sane and rational country would choose to fund a civil war in a large country of considerable economic and strategic power? Unless of course you intend at the end of the day to throw your hand in with one side?

      2. Does that mean the Ukrainian Nazi’s should freely Attack and Kill Donbass Ethnic Russian Ukrainian Civilians!? Donbass and Crimea were never supposed to be divided as part of Ukraine, and could have been dealt with years ago in peaceful UN negotiation, but the lack of UN input at the start of this war, the fact that UN stands by and watches the Impartial Warmonger EU go to do a War Crime investigation on a Nazi Film set, instead of the “Impartial” UN itself, indicates their Impartiality, No wonder Donbass, Crimea, Palestine and Yemen have been going on for years, The UN is rotten to the core, along with their Masters entire Western Elite!

      3. Dunno if it was an actual film-set, but according to Joe Lauria (Consortium News), the Azov (or similar) had a day or two between Russia’s withdrawal and the “discovery” of the atrocities to decorate a street/basement or two with the incriminating evidence…

      4. timfrom – Haven’t you seen the well publicised satellite and drone images that prove the bodies were there whilst the Russians were still in control of the area. Surely you aren’t knowingly making up excuses for the brutal invading force of a corrupt imperialist dictator like Putin.

      5. No I haven’t seen them and regarding Putin, not knowingly, no.

        In fact I have yet to see or hear anyone claim to have any hard evidence of any kind, just conjecture. That would just be too passé. These days, you’re Guilty Because Accused.

      7. It is frightening when the truth comes out, a lot of those people had armbands indicating non confrontation with Russian Soldier, for me, it was obvious when I saw how they carted those bodies around and stacked them in a White Van like fresh meat and then dumped them in the hole like a scene from the dark ages! That made it clear to me that those were not Ukrainians or Azov! Even the least sophisticated nations on earth would have knocked up some pine coffins and stacked them respectfully, They had no excuses 19 Funeral homes, just on Google Maps in Kiev, all open for business https://www.google.com/maps/search/%D0%91%D1%83%D1%87%D0%B0%2FKyiv+Ukraine+Funeral+Home/@50.4363856,30.0423812,10z many of those part buried bodies stuck out well above ground level how do you think they will spread those dumped bodies out to the middle, by hand or by digger when the MSM have left. Horrific and who does the War Crime, The Instigator EU! It’s sickening and totally insane! Ah, no, I didn’t mean an actual Film set, I meant if you look at all the photos, in the distance it is all clear and Normal lives resumes, one little dwelling for all the Russian Soldier, if you look at Russian Soldiers always immaculate look at the Ukrainians, mismatching boots, trainers, designed top or bottom, if anyone fowled on the bed they slept it was the Disordered Nazi Ukrainians, yet Western MSM can see it is a total setup and continue to misinform the World!

      9. Ethnic Russian Ukrainians, Anti-Nazi Ukrainians, etc those will not be seen by them as fellow Ukrainians, they will be the Russians, Russian Spies or Russian Empathists and handled with the utmost disrespect. There is a video going about, I think it is on RT where a Nazi General tells the soldiers they can shoot civilians without a blue armband, if I am correct the Yellow bands are Azov Permanent Forces and the Blue Bands are Civilian Forces. They probably ‘made’ and gathered bodies in Kiev over a period if many were decomposing and then staged them for the MSM! Doesn’t bear thinking about! Anyway, it is a setup, and they had to get bodies and ‘decomposing’ of overnight Rust Tanks from somewhere! I wonder if anyone in those posh houses or flats recorded their shenanigans but are too scared to share it, if they do, they will need a pro editor, otherwise like a bullet the Azov Nazis will work out exactly which window it was shot/videoed from.

      10. Ah, got you, yes. This is from Global Research today:

        “Many of those killed wore white armbands, like those apparently worn by the Russian soldiers who occupied the site as a distinguishing mark.

        It is speculated that many of those killed were people who had put on a white armband in solidarity with these Russian soldiers. Some of the people may also have been specifically branded as “traitors“ with an armband during the massacre, which was apparently perpetrated by Ukrainian units.

        The murdered people were then abused on April 3 as part of a false flag operation by attributing their deaths to the Russians who had previously occupied this place. That the massacre was carried out only after the Russians had left, by Kiev-Ukrainian units, is shown by the already mentioned video with the mayor, who was in a good mood one day after the Russian withdrawal and had no dead to mourn in his place”.

        https://www.globalresearch.ca/massacre-bucha/5776423

      11. timfrom – If you are gullible enough to believe anything published on the GlobalResearch site then it explains a lot about your comments.

      12. Not Global Research on its own, no, but if it’s corroborated elsewhere then quite possibly…

      17. timfrom – What is there to debunk? 🤔
        It hasn’t been hidden away as your link implies, it has been on published on the EU’s website since the beginning of Feb22 for consultation.

        Here it is translated into English
        About this initiative
        Summary
        Regulation (EU) 2021/953 on the EU Digital COVID Certificate introduced EU-wide rules for issuing and accepting proof of a person’s COVID-19 vaccination, test result or recovery.
        The EU Digital COVID Certificate helps people travel freely within the EU during the COVID-19 pandemic. How the certificate is used for other purposes (access to events, etc.) is up to each EU country to decide.
        The Regulation currently applies until 30 June 2022. This initiative proposes to extend it by 12 months.
        Topic
        Consumers, Employment and social affairs, Justice and fundamental rights
        Type of act
        Proposal for a regulation

        Would you like a link to the full document in English (32 pages)

      18. No, you’re ok, just tell me what it says about what you do if, for example, you don’t have or want a smartphone. Does this ruling mean we can’t travel to an EU country without a Covid certificate? Doesn’t sound very progressive to me. More like a sinister form of safetyism.

        And what about the (programmable) digital currency thing, abolishing cash? Once again, as with imposing Lockdowns, we’re aping Chinese authoritarianism. Do you really want to go that way permanently? Cos once it’s installed, there’ll be no going back…

      19. timfrom – There is nothing to stop you printing out the Q-Code.

      20. Provided they’ll accept printouts, which is by no means certain. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they nixed that option.

      21. You’ll also find that most feature phone are capable of displaying Q-Codes. What are you worrying about, you have a chip in your passport.

      22. But my concern is I’ve not had the jab and not sure I ever will.

      23. timfrom – There’s a simple solution to that, get your Covid jabs. It is no different to you being compelled to have various other jabs like yellow fever to travel to some destinations.
        Perhaps you would have less of a problem if we were still in the EU.

      24. Those jabs are a justified and proportionate to the threat, with a proper trial period.. The Covid jabs are none of those things. But your fewer choices = fewer problems argument is quite popular with our masters, I believe.

      25. Thank you for that, thank you for REAL Journalism, it is a shame that the likes of BlueKeef & Co will make them all disappear!
        Interesting how the Russians found the badly mutilated, sexually assaulted body of a woman, with a Swastika carved into her abdomen and from the bleeding it was done before her death. Now the Nazi Ukrainians claim, several of the bodies had Swastika Carved into their bodies, low and behold “by the Russian Soldiers” no less!

      27. timfrom – Yet more rubbish from another conspiracy theory site.😏

      28. Thank You! For that! What I find extremely fascinating is that the American Far Right Bloggers/Journalists are calling the West’s Hypocrisy and the Ukrainian Nazis out! That is coming to something when the Far Right is farther Left than the supposed Left! It is a very weird thing, the USA Far Right, perhaps that is just Americans all over!

      29. Well they do say the far-left and far-right meet round the back!

      30. Wah hah hah, yeah, sometimes I wish the Far Left would stir up, just to shut those who call Corbyn et al Far Left! They will soon shut up and realise how far Right The MSM dragged them and their TORY Politicians!

      31. I thought you might like: https://waronfakes.com/bucha/ check out the links at the end of the Articles, if the Western MSM and the EU War Crime investigation Ignore all this, we’re in big, big trouble, I bet you the EU does not exhume any of the bodies for autopsy as they should all have had and The Nazi Ukrainians can’t say they couldn’t with 20 undertakers near Bucha shown yesterday and 11 Morgues Bucha side of the River, not to mention probably several Universities! Then again, would those Nuckledragger Ukrainian Azov Nazis know anything about International Law, probably not! And would the EU Investigation Team remember International Law while investigating, Probably not!
        We will most certainly see Munch’s Scream of the 21st Century very soon! That is all we have a scream, what a hopeless situation!

      32. nellyskelly – The Russian’s are currently destroying the evidence of their war crimes in mobile crematoriums

      33. Oh right, the War crimes they committed in Bucha? Surely that will be the investigators’ first call, as it is the latest and the evidence the freshest. At least those poor Ukrainian Russians and Anti-Nazi Ukrainians killed by Azov Battalion will get a Postmortem and a proper and appropriately respectful burial rather than being dumped from the back of a White Van like Rubbish at the Fucking Tip! You are quite something!
        And you have credible evidence of this Russian Activity? Do you think that the truth against anything against Russia in this Western Concocted war will Escape The Pro-Nazi EU investigators, even if reams and reams of FACTS prove The Nazi loving EU wrong!? Gullible-R-Us!

      34. Whereas the Ukrainians just dump the bodies of Russian prisoners they have shot where they drop. Their grinning faces of the killers are particularly chilling. Would you agree?

      35. PS “Mobile Crematoriums” that picture which appeared in the UK MSM recently, is a medium size Farm Animal Carcass Incinerator, and that accusation has been doing the Nazi Ukraine rounds since 2015! That particular model can incinerate a Sheep maximum! The bigger ones that would/could possibly be used to cremate a human body is too big, six wheeler trailer too big for war situations, and they would need rows by the hundred to cremate as many bodies, as the Nazi Propaganda suggests! It takes over 5 hours to cremate one human body, some crematoriums have super-duper hi tech incinerators, that can do it in 1 to 3 hours, but I doubt you’d get a truck/trailer big enough for those! When something seems so extreme/shocking, you really need to do a bit more research, unless you are knowingly peddling Nazi Ukraine Propaganda for the West and MSM!
        BlueSteveH I want you look at these pictures for a moment and tell me what you see, you know the Bucha Propaganda, but tell me what in these pictures casts doubts in your mind, based on your common knowledge of ie, metal rusting, treatment of human bodies, treatment of human bodies or your fellow countrymen murdered by the enemy, knowledge of filling a hole level to a height of no more than 2 foot with heavy, bulky, irregular objects and how you could apply dignity and respect if those were human bodies, as per the last image after much outrage of dumping bodies like trash, look at the soil it is sandy, look at the depth of the visible bodies, now combine dead bodies, shallow mass grave, sandy soil and wild animals, not sure but Ukraine probably have Wolves, Bears, Foxes, Vultures, etc? https://listurls.com/B8DJPwg

      38. That is going to piss the EU War Crimes Investigators off big time! They can’t very well call Russia Guilty when the proof is out of Ukraine’s Black Flag Guilt, this puts ALL the MSM under a spotlight and Coke Head $elensky, well the satisfactory look, as he stood looking over that gaping mass grave of Non-Fascist, Non-Nazi Ukrainians can’t be hidden by the worlds leading Photoshopper!

    7. SteveH
      The UN are investigating war crimes accusations against Russia and the Nazis
      What Ukraine needs is JC a man of peace and integrity
      What Ukraine does not need is another bent politician doing the dirty work for corporate interests

      Reply

    8. A typical comment from someone who watches Hollywood and the press. Have you taken the shilling? Ukraine cannot win and must seek peace or many more innocents will continue to perish. And for what? The Bidens, the MIC, the media. The cowboys are sending them rubbish. Old tanks, Soviet-era tanks and pigs, what are they supposed to accomplish. Germany is regarding amid its worst crisis since the war. Corporal Shulz is taking your advice. Let’s see how that goes with the unions and the bosses. This war should never have happened, people do not understand the depth of ill feeling held by ordinary Russian, and others, to Nazis. People have limits when it comes to seeing their countrymen murdered. Eight years is the limit. Do the Russian 🇷🇺 people not deserve secure borders?

      Reply

    9. ‘the Ukrainians need weapons’

      i read that thousands of them had been killing other russian speaking ukrainians for years. where were you mr ignorant?

      Reply

    10. The supposed “peace talks” between Russia and Ukraine are mere spectacle: Illusion, smoke and mirrors, deception and delusion. Your British Establishment knows this and uses the pretence of peace negotiations to give cover to NATOwhich is regrouping troops for a new offensive

      Be careful SteveH. Your personal pro-WEF and pro-Starmer compliance is making you a warmonger.

      Reply

  2. Stop the War is a protest group. There will never be room in a (God forbid!) Starmer government for protest, he has ALWAYS been against people protesting, (as well as having the temerity to disagree with HIM!). He would be a worse PM than even Johnson, and that’s no exaggeration.

    Reply

      3. The Ukrainians need a quickly negotiated peace. The more weapons, the more people die.

      4. goldbach – Putin could solve this tomorrow by taking his invading troops back home, they are obviously not welcome.

      6. Obviously not welcome? By some but not by any means by everyone.

      7. goldbach – Another selection from Putin’s propaganda jukebox. 🙄

      8. 99% of what we are fed is Zelensky’s propaganda. It’s useful to see an alternate view as well rather than dismiss it out of hand. The video just popped up when I went on YouTube yesterday. The reporter sounds like he is American, and possibly an ex-serviceman. Should be able to find out with a bit of digging

      9. goldbach – If you do in fact read and watch a wide range of material I struggle to see how you have reached the conclusions that you have.

      10. So far, I have found out that the reporter is called Patrick Lancaster.
        He started working in Europe as a photojournalist, originally reporting on things not associated with conflict – e.g. archaeological excavations. he was in Athens when there were riots in 2013, so made a documentary about it.
        He went to Crimea in 2014 for the independence referendum and then to Donbas for the referendums/referenda there. Then he went to Mariupol to cover elections there in 2015
        He has had reports in/on a variety of news media including Associated Press, ITN, Sky News, Reuters, and Spiegel TV. If I find out more i’ll report back. Looks kosher so far.

      11. goldbach – …..and the point you are trying to prove is? Have fun.

      12. ………. and another indication that he’s kosher – Bellingcat has been busy trying to rubbish him – and we all know where Bellingcat’s funding comes from, don’t we?

      13. goldbach – Did you really mean to say that Bellingcat have proved that his reports are less than accurate?

      14. Oh, sorry I didn’t answer your question. The point I’m trying to prove is that you have David Gower Syndrome.

      15. ‘Trying to” being the appropriate words. – Bellingcat is notorious as a source of disinformation and it’s funded, against our will, by us all.

  4. What’s not to like about the motion?
    Well, for Starmer, I guess it’s these bits.
    1. “For one country to make first use of military force against another and to invade and occupy it are illegal acts of aggression.” – Is it illegal for Russia to do so but not foe the US, UK etc., Mr Starmer?
    2. “We stand in solidarity with the ordinary people of Ukraine…” – Should we stand with the whole of Ukraine, including the Azov Battalion and the openly Nazi political parties, Mr Starmer?
    3. “.. war in Ukraine is, in part, also a conflict between the United States and Russia ….” – Should we deny the 25 years of US meddling that brought us to the point where Russia invaded, Mr Starmer?
    4. “…. Western governments have a duty to the people of Ukraine and the world to support diplomatic efforts for a negotiated peace ….” – Should we ignore efforts to negotiate and just feed masses of military supplies into Ukraine, Mr Starmer?
    5. “… it is important to listen to anti-war voices and longstanding critics of our own foreign policy …” – Should we avoid any examination of our own conduct, Mr Starmer?
    Starmer’s pressure on the Stop the War signatories to withdraw would seem to indicate that his answer to every one of my questions is “yes”.
    Cue the suspension of Bolton NE CLP?

    Reply

      1. Zelensky’s seeking volunteers as well as weapons.
        Put your “money” where your mouth is?

      2. goldbach – Besides being too old to be a soldier I was invalided out of the army (P7L7) many moons ago so as I would probably be more of hindrance than a help on the battlefield I have already literally put my money where my mouth is and will continue to do so.

      3. Steve H 05/04/2022 at 2:24 pm :

        You could make the tea and coffee for the HQ Staff, while they get on with the more important stuff.

        Make yourself useful.

        #StopTheWar

      4. Feel strongly about that do you. The old trigger finger twitching. Relax, sit back and watch a Hollywood film about how the Cowboys won WW2.

      5. Wobbly – You’re the one behaving like a child. Back in the real world many of us are doing what we can to support the people of Ukraine.and alleviate the suffering inflicted on them by Putin the corrupt imperialist dictator.

      6. SteveH
        What kind of a democrat are you, do you believe in a ‘Free press’

  6. Theres no longer any reason for NATO and especially expanding onto the doorstep of Russia.There would not have been a invasion if the Russians had not felt threatened by a bunch of Nazis backed by the USA had not felt threatened by Nato and the continual onward march into the East including were I am in Asia.Bolton N.East are correct in opposing war and invasions but somtimes turning the other cheek to Nazis only encourages them…just look at the warmongers like Steve H and wonder why people can be trusted when they control the media,finance and all avenues of one world order in the western world…..Sorry I don’t buy into the anti Russian anti Asian rhetoric set by the Yanks .Regards comrades.

    Reply

      1. goldbach – The NATO training of Ukraine’s armed forces has obviously been very effective.

    2. Joseph, all these gung-ho NATO Warmongers like like Starmer, Lammy and the Chief Turd Polisher are full of big boy rhetoric but would never have the balls to go and help their comrades in Ukraine. They want to create war from their armchairs…..

      Get to fuck the lot of you. You bunch of cowards and armchair commentators, otherwise go and fight.

      Reply

      1. baz2001 – When can we expect to see Putin on the front line?

  7. Do we stand in solidarity with the people of Yemen or do we just send arms to Saudi Arabia for oil? There appears to be double standards.

    Reply

    1. Labour can’t change that unless we are in power. Endlessly bleating from the sidelines won’t change anything.

      Reply

      1. ….for the Labour Party to become electable it must be acceptable to MSM & the bourgeoisie, we have to become more like the Tories. I think Tony Blair said that (or one of his acolytes)…….perhaps a rough translation but accurate in substance. You can see how Stasi Starmer is joining up the dots.

  8. It’s that huge dollop of Neoconservatism of Reagan/Thatcher’s flavour of Neoliberalism! The nasty bastards just love war! Bush, Blair, Obama, Macron, BlueKeef and on and on! Imagine wanting to take away their Money Spinner Game, but also remember how quickly wars happen, it might be our turn next or the US, or France, etc!

    Reply

    1. nellyskelly – Why no mention of Putin, he started this? I’m thankful that we are a NATO member as are the vast majority of people in the UK.

      Reply

      1. Putin, backed by the overwhelming number of Russians, was forced to intervene to prevent the genocide of Russian speakers and socialist supporters in the Donbas. To fail to gave done so would have been criminal.
        As to NATO it is an instrument of US imperialism, always was. Which is why, for years the membership of the Labour Party lined up at conference after conference against it.

      2. bevin – If you are naive and gullible enough to believe Putin’s propaganda then that’s your problem. What is it that you so admire about Putin. I would have thought Putin and his corrupt regime represented everything that a good democratic socialist like yourself would abhor.

      3. Russia has an elected head of state. When did you vote for yours?

      4. Arwyn – Are you really that naive?
        Russia has a corrupted political system headed by Putin an ‘elected’ dictator who enriches himself and his cronies by stealing from the Russian people and maintains himself in power by either imprisoning or murdering anyone that he thinks is a political threat to him.

      5. “I’m thankful that we are a NATO member as are the vast majority of people in the UK”

        Yes, I’m sure we’ll all be thinking that as we see the shock wave approaching us from the mushroom cloud on the horizon…

      6. “Why no mention of Putin, he started this?” Did he? I seem to remember 8 years of conflict, where Ukraine Nazis were killing, attacking and violating Ukrainian Russians, Ukrainian Roma Gypsies and their Properties! I also seem to remember threats and an onslaught at the Russian Border by the West, despicable NATO and Western MSM who are still peddling their shite from Ukrainian Nazi Film Sets!
        You won’t be so thankful about NATO when the Cluster Bombs start raining down on your neighbourhood! There is not a place on earth that is out of reach, and our “leaders and opposition” acting like bigger Macho Man bone brains than Putin, however, in this war Putin is not our enemy! Even Far Right Blogs and Personalities are speaking out against Nazi Ukraine, What is it about Nazism that you are so Passionate about!?

      7. nellyskelly – It isn’t my fault that you are just another useful idiot.

      8. I rest my case, innuendo on innuendo, Childlike insults and playground bully screeches and absolutely ZILCH substance!
        If anyone here ever was the useful idiot, that would be YOU, BlueSteveH, nobody else! Pure TORY Trolling! What does Boris Butt taste like, BlueSteveH!?

      9. We live in a one Party State (just like USA), where each political party has broadly the same political ideologies of Neo-Liberalism endorsed & enforced by a billionaire owned Main-Stream Media. Diversity of opinion & dissent will not be tolerated which is why Channel 4 is being sold off & equality candidate, Stasi Starmer reneged on yet another promise & ran into the welcoming arms of Rupert Murdoch. We have government by MSM as its function becomes ever more to control & manipulate public opinion. Lest we forget, the Chairman of the BBC donated over £400K to the Tory Party just prior to his appointment. The 4th Estate is as corrupt as everything else in this brave new world.

      10. Steve,

        There IS no dissent on Channel 4 news anymore, it sold out just like the Guardian at roughly the same time – around 2015 as a result of Russia’s entry into the Syrian proxy war (at Syria/Assad’s request), I suspect. That, together with the GODAWFUL programming, even on Film 4 for the most part, is why I’m quite happy to see it go! The odd good drama every few years (The Handmaid’s Tale, Homeland, etc) always seem to be imported anyway. Someone remind me of the last good C4-financed UK drama. I’m not saying there hasn’t been one, I just can’t think of it at the moment…

  9. We seem to be sliding towards a much larger war. Biden says he wants to see Putin arrested and charged with war crimes. Leaving aside the rank hypocrisy it surely means forces will need to enter Russia to capture him? Putin opened the door but the eagerness with which America and the UK have leapt into the breach tells us what is really going on. No doubt both Biden and Johnson see it as a great advantage for them personally – Biden in the November elections and Johnson anytime he’s challenged. Never has the Labour Party acted so obscenely in the face of war.

    Reply

    1. Yes, Paul, but I’d add to one sentence so that it reads – “Putin opened the door because he’d seen NATO standing just outside with a big stick, but ……..”

      Reply

      1. Stop listening to the Mainstream Filthy right wing media!!! Get onto rumble and listen to RT.

      2. Andrew – Why are you pretend lefties always so anxious to censor what people watch?

      3. Who are the real lefties? You!? BlueKeith the Tyrant? You are insane!
        You are so fucking TORY, BlueSteveH, you OUT-TORY the worst of them!

      4. It is when they go and report from a blatantly obvious film set, one street and only one side of a block, One messed up dwelling, but so badly set up it looks less believable than an IDF incident video, Bodies staked in a White Van like fresh meat, unidentified bodies dumped in a sand grave like something out of the dark ages, no friends and family looking for their missing loved ones, and the Posh Houses overlooking all that untouched, unmarked, with white linen on the line, and nobody queries why do these Ukrainians not have more empathy for their own dead The SS and Khmer Rouge had more fucking empathy! That is when we have to realise just how deep in the shit we are, especially when the Orchestrator EU are going in to do the War Crimes Investigation, probably based on those MSM reports “I wonder what that outcome will be”!

      5. It’s remarkable that few in Europe have much to say about a newly aggressive and rearming of Germany. It’s a powerful and rich country – which was always the problem in the first half of the 20thC.

      6. Paul – Not all of us live in the past, Germany and its people are very different today.

      7. Especially as this “Leftist” and “Socialist” majority German government are acting so very NOT “Leftist” or “Socialist”!
        Also imagine WW2 with a UK opposition equally fascist, guaranteed to become government, because the Old New-World-Order have decided, smack bang at the height of Hitler’s success! WW3 is a war of the La-Di-Das, this time they will be funding it to the bitter end, no pulling funding at 27 Million more Russians or Every Socialist/Communist/Trade Unionists/Gypsy on earth! There will only be Master and Serf left standing, peasants in the field and Masters in their Castles! But Hey! ‘Let’s all believe The Multi-Billionaire MSM Of Course they have our best interests at heart’!

      8. “pretend lefties”. That’s rich coming from you SteveH.

        Selective viewing is always sensible – especially where the synchronised-MSM is concerned, but it is our dialectic method that you’re scared by, not RT on the web. and the fact that some people hunt it down

        Thing is, stevieh, Putin and the Russian Federation are not antogonists to the neoioberala and their corrupt hegemony. No “pretend” lefty is daft enough to believe that.

        1) Putin has attended more WEF Sessions at Davos than any other single polician (even more than Ed Balls) and probably talks to Klaus Schwab more often than Sir Kier even..
        2) The Covid scam has been implemented more completely and more effectively in RF than anwhere else on the planet, possibly excluding PRC. (Covid digital passports are mandatory in Russia and ‘vaccination’ is enforced by the state).

      10. “dialectic”, do you know what it means?

        Yes, I became a chemist because of it. (My first degree is in Philosophy, where study of Hegel and Kant pushed me to appreciate ‘dialectic reasoning’ and caused cellular chemistry to become the main focus of my life (the ‘scientific socialism’ it engendered in Marx, and his writings’ effect on me (as far as I could understand them) was just a bonus for me). It fascinates me and I respect its method. It’s well-worth any time you give it SteveH.

      11. qwertboi – I’m sure that we are all suitably impressed.

      12. suitably impressed.

        Nonsense! Giving time or money to a foodbank, or having the mental acuity to resist Establishment lies and deceat is impressive, the above is just some formative influences on my little life.

    2. Never has The Labour Party acted so obscenely on every single thing that an opposition party “for the people” should have and could have acted on, the entire mess we are in at present was 100% Supported and encouraged by the Supposed Opposition! They are Fucking TORY SCAB SCUM, every single one of them! Including the Careerist AOC types who took their signatures off the condemnation of NATO, AOC types who say nothing in the face of the Fascist PM to be Sir Lawdy Lawd BlueKeith of Pile of Shiteshire!

      Reply

      1. nellyskelly – The Labour party’s positions on Ukraine and NATO are supported by the vast majority of the British people.

  10. Its 1933 in Ukraine, comrades. Men with swastika tattoos are torturing socialists. They are burning Trade Unionists to death in the Trade Union building in Odessa. All opposition patties are banned. Their leaders are in jail or disappeared.
    Its another Jakarta. Another Chile. Another Haiti. Another US engineered coup. And the BBC are lying about it. Who’d have thought it? The media telling lies. And Steve H backing fascists and blaming Russia.

    Reply

    1. bevin – But you’re the one supporting Putin, FFS how naive and gullible can one get.

      Reply

      1. Unfinished business from WW2 as Germany re-arms yet again. This time it started by deliberately destroying the economy of Greece; then providing arms to their ‘Ustase’ chums in Croatia to break up the sovereign country of Yugoslavia & then engineering a ‘putsch’ in Ukraine, another of their old chums from WW2. From which direction will Germany seek to invade Russia this time?

      1. Thanks for the link. It was much the same back in 2013-4 and the Maiden revolt. The extreme right wing Ukrainians were skilful at deception and mis- information. They worked closely with Western media and still do. They are perfectly capable of producing bodies and tying their hands to fabricate an atrocity.

      2. Paul – Or maybe it looks so believable because it is simply the truth. In Putin’s Russia descent gets you 15yrs behind bars.

      4. Good link, thanks. We sorely need to hear the other side of the story. It’s almost amusing to hear Rosenberg of the BBC tell us that Russian TV is wholly propaganda which Russians believe. What a coincidence!

      5. Paul – The satellite images taken whist the Russians still occupied the area prove otherwise.

      6. Paul, I think that he means dissent.
        You know, like Julian Assange here, and he didn’t get ………………… er?

      8. More handy links from you today. Cheers Goldbach!

        The Bucha piece echoes my own suspicions about the massacre. Azov had everything to gain (and Russia, nothing) from an outrage tailor-made for western media consumption which will seriously increase the danger of NATO being drawn (reluctantly, of course) into the conflict. Let us pray…

    4. Well said Bevin. Straight to the point. The armchair fascists on here are gutless cowards.

      Reply

    5. Bevin, Hitler also used the Ukrainian Nazis to commit atrocities in France, notably the massacre in Oradour-sur-Glane, where they burned alive a church full of women and children. Zelensky is run by these same Nazis. and we currently have one supposedly in the Caribbean winding everybody up, when in reality he’s just a spineless coward.

      Reply

  11. The overwhelming majority of visitors to this website appear to be against war.
    Just one seems to be advocating fighting to the death ………………….. of thousands more Ukrainians.
    How principled and noble.

    Reply

    1. goldbach – The overwhelming majority of people in the UK support Ukraine and our membership of NATO. Unlike you they are not advocating capitulation to Putin’s corrupt dictatorship.

      Reply

      1. I haven’t seen the polling, but I’m sure your first sentence is correct.
        It’s amazing how bullish and determined people can be when it’s other people who are in the firing line.

      2. goldbach – It is amazing how ready you are to sell the freedom of the Ukrainian people down the river.

      3. Who is selling who down the river?

        You say you’re ex military. So you know the answer to this question.

        How far will you get with 10 rounds and a molatov against an armoured personnel carrier? Said APC has a cannon on it’s roof and you’re using a park tree for cover, not a forest. None of you has military training.

        I’ve seen the results. Two weeks ago. 8 of them torn to shreds. Arming everyday folks is unbelievably wrong!

        Do you support Azov?

      4. NVLA – What’s your solution, capitulation to Putin’s imperialist aggression. The Ukrainian people are fighting for their survival against a vile dictatorship.

      5. Is that why they resort to knee capping prisoners during interrogations?

      6. Worth asking oneself how many tens of thousands of dead Ukrainians someone sitting happily in the Caribbean is prepared to put up with to ensure that Ukrainians are free ………….. and dead.

      7. goldbach – I’m struggling to see why where I live is relevant. Are you saying that the Ukrainians should surrender to Putin’s oppressive and corrupt dictatorship.

      8. SteveH is more than happy to defend democracy down to the last Ukrainian
        God save us from War mongers, tin pot generals and sabre rattlers and for what, the Yankee dollar

      9. SteveH
        The peace agreement that will end this war was signed 8 years ago, it takes a truly sick fuck to support this war

      10. Doug – There is nothing to stop Putin from withdrawing his invasion force. He’s the aggressor..

      12. Wobbly – Ukraine abolished the death penalty in 2000. Are you a gullible idiot?

    2. Thanks again for the Consortium/Grayzone links, goldbach. The Bucha piece echoes my own suspicions on who was responsible for the massacre. Azov had everything to gain (and Russia, nothing) from an outrage tailor-made for western media consumption to make the case for an escalation involving NATO forces. If they happen, it will be depicted as agonised-over but unavoidable.

      Reply

    3. goldbach….The person you refer to doesn’t have the courage of his convictions, otherwise he would put his camo on and head out to Donbass. He’s an armchair Tory voting coward.

      Reply

      1. baz2001 – When can we expect to see you fighting in the Dombass alongside Putin’s militia. 😏

      2. It’s interesting looking back from today, 6th Jan. I had forgotten about the war advocacy of our very own Jason Statham. I’d also forgotten that as well as myself he took, stupidly, the shilling. As he informed us lots of shelling involved. I’m an advocate of a different type of peace, not catering corps peas. No offence to the chefs they are all trained soldiers. It just that Arnie seems hesitant to name his mob. I was a crappy gunner fwiw. I hate the war and I don’t believe that mortals know how 60 odd million people think.

  12. ShitShow Labour MPs took how bloody long to complain??? This party is a fucking Sham and I am so glad I will live long enough to be a part of it’s downfall A fitting quote I just read.

    “They play with your Trust and Lie in your Face like a Labour MP”

    Reply

  13. Starmer’s proscriptions and his aggressive foreign policy positions. He’s here to finish the job that Blair started.

    I’m glad I left Labour. Question is, can those in Labour who remained to fight in Labour, actually make a difference?

    I doubt it.

    Reply

      1. So why do you insist people VOTE labour you’re glad they left?

        Go on, give us a reason, o! genial thing.

      2. Don’t be so ridiculous, Toffee, remember you are talking to a troll who more than likely spent 4y3m on one or the other Get-Corbyn Bandwagon and then Apparently went out to vote Labour the same Labour he helped destroy for 4y3m. If you think that genius will give you any sensible reasons, keep thinking, he will probably go and vote Conservative after spending every day as a BlueKeef Troll on SB Wah hah hah hah! I suppose we all have to play with his delusional insanity, to entertain ourselves every so often.

      3. ]You vile, gamer, front room Nazi.
        You brought up the point that the majority supported the war. I merely said that the majority here also support the death penalty and for that, you called me a cretin. You expose your true self with each post

    2. No! Those remaining just create a fucking proactive shield around the filthy fucking right wing Filth. Labour will never win again but only on the moronic sheep who continue to believe their shit.

      Reply

      1. Andrew – What is it about Putin’s corrupt regime that you admire.

  14. Some of the Tories (and Labour too) are more
    war-like than Zelensky and would prefer the war
    to go on until Russia is “defeated”. Zelensky
    wants the war to stop but not if it leads to Russian
    soldiers still occupying Ukraine. How could he
    when he and we see what the atrocities – and
    no-one believes the Russian denial given satellite
    imagery of the bodies during the Russian occupation.
    It is difficult to see how a negotiated solution
    could be achieved but piling in more weapons
    is not really a solution.

    More sanctions on Russia is a – possible – solution
    – it is a great pity that the West made themselves
    dependent on two vicious dictators for their oil, viz
    Saudi and Russia. It is also great pity when they didn’t listen to Corbyn when he condemned Putin over
    Russia’s actions over Chechnya when it was a smoking ruin and Blair etc were fawning over him and trying to persuade him to visit the UK.

    As for the Donbas – there is a deal of propaganda
    about that and “fake news” after Russian military
    infiltrated it in 2014 and helped fan the flames of
    war – resulting in many casualties. One item of fake
    news was that the Russian language was forbidden
    when we saw a writer interviewed – a Russian speaker-
    whose books were only written in Russian ..

    Yes there are fascists in Ukraine but also fascists in
    and from Russia for what else can you call people
    who torture and rape and murder in cold blood in order
    to “cleanse” the Ukraine of people who want it to be a separate country from Russia? At best it is Colonialism
    of the worst kind. It is true the Russian Govt made the large fascist organisation there illegal – whereupon they broke up into smaller groups many of who went to Donbas to fight – and are apparently not allowed back into Russia
    after they have crossed the border.

    The motion from NE Bolton is a good one however Starmer does not do nuance or what war means
    or is like. Both myself and my partner remember
    WW2 and in addition my partner served for a time
    and both know what it was like – as do many
    of the military who have served since then. My partner
    joined CND after de-mob as did many of the military.

    Starmer has not got a clue – about anything ..

    There is a discussion about Ukraine at the UN
    with evidence from Human Rights groups and the
    only hope is that there is some solution found.

    Reply

    1. Make sure you remind zelensky his homeland*** is ukraine not Palestine where he vited in the UN against Paleatinian rights. With his dual “israeli” passport.

      Reply

  15. When Gorbachev agreed to end the partition of Germany they were promised NATO would not expand one inch East, but since NATO has gone 1,000 miles East (Ali, 2022) so it is Right Wing Western political and diplomatic failure that has led to this.
    Putin will withdraw most of his troops when a land coastal corridor is fully secured from Crimea via Mariupol to the Donbass region which becomes independent from Ukraine or of course Putin could be brought down at home but perhaps the former is more likely.
    Thanks Goldbach and others for the counter narratives when more and more it seems almost a crime to dare to actually think critically and not fall like some for the dominant Right Wing Western /NATO narrative – hook, line and sinker.
    And anyone who actually dares to think is labelled Pro-Putin but it was only the Left who were raising the issue of Chechnya years ago when Putin was raising cities there, but Putin was the West’s friend them and no-one including the media gave a damn and in fact shortly after this war Blair rushed to Moscow to be the first to congratulate Putin on becoming President!
    And again no-one gave a damn about the Civil War in the Donbass region from 2014 where the Ukrainian Nazi battalion have been very active and 14,000 ethnic Russians have died (Ali, New Left Review, Blog, March 22).
    John Lennon wrote ‘Just Give Me The Truth’ in response to the media lies at the time on Vietnam with his digs at the BBC and the CIA etc.
    But perhaps little has changed and in fact with the internet it’s got worse.
    Let’s hope for peace soon, too many lives have already been wasted.

    Reply

      1. Another well-worn – to the point of abused – phrase to add to the wee stevie bingo card.

  16. ‘the Ukrainians need weapons’

    i read that thousands of them had been killing other russian speaking ukrainians for years. where were you mr ignorant?

    Reply

  17. Crikey, I was about to call you people useful idiots but thinking about it, idiots will suffice.

    Reply

  18. What really is behind NATO led by the US in its support for Ukraine has been in the makings for many years, please look at this Pentagon funded report from the Rand organisation from 2019, this is a must read report and details the many provocations being prepared against Russia.
    Full Report here….
    https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html

    Reply

  19. ‘This branch believes that NATO which has 30 member countries and 40 partner countries out of 187 countries in the world has outlived its purpose of protecting Western capitalism on behalf of the oligarchs in its zone of influence. And we further suggest that it is time for humanity to turn a new page. We therefore call for NATO to be replaced via the United Nations by an inclusive ALL Country Peace Organisation (ACPO).’

    Reply

    1. Bazza – What a brill idea we could call it The Security Council and then emasculate it by allowing key members a veto.

      Reply

      1. The UN and the Security Council are, indeed, of minimal use; and the veto is frequently used.
        Does anyone know which country has used the veto most?

      2. America protecting Israel? (NB Israel would currently love to attack the Gaza again because some Israeli’s have been shot and they want to retaliate but they know it’s not the time to commit war crimes as is their usual MO. But can they resist?).

  20. One final brief comment before I head for my bed – I see that Zelensky has said that he expects to find more atrocities in the coming days. If I was in the greater Kiev area, particularly if I was a Russian-speaker, I’d be finding a good hiding place for a few days.

    Reply

      1. steve h. .Zelenskys first language is American English and his direction is pure Holywood.I expect hes enjoying the sunshine over Miami beach down collins avenue now.and smiling….Hes fast running out of time and has even pissed off the Israeli government who now veiw him as a bad comedian that believes his own publicity.The camera rolls but the wheels and lighting equipment are overworked.and lack a good director.He certainly will not win any nominations at the academy awards.

  21. One member one vote.
    And Cos the USA funds two thirds of NATO it thinks it should call the shots.
    Time for the big 5 to stop bullying the world.
    As Terry Pratchett once said: “Those with imagination are often criticised by those with none.”

    Reply

    1. Like a bully, the USA uses its strength or influence to harm or intimidate those who are weaker. The ‘peace talks’ between Russia and Ukraine have a third party at the table, NATO, which is regrouping for a new offensive .

      You’re in great form today Bazza, many incisive points in your posts today/yesterday. Glad I find them

      Reply

  22. Joseph, sorry no reply button on your comment above.
    Not only did Zelensky not win an Oscar, they would not even let him speak.
    Sean Penn calls for billionaire to step up and buy aircraft for Ukraine
    Actor urges someone to spend $300m on ‘12 aircraft with better tech than Russian MiGs or SU’s’
    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/apr/01/sean-penn-calls-for-billionaire-to-step-up-and-buy-aircraft-for-ukraine
    The man is stark raving bonkers. $300 million dollars would pay for just over two F35’s [providing they did not crash on their way to delivery to Ukraine] without the maintenance and spare parts and the months of pilot training involved. He also threatened to smelt down the Oscars he won if Zenelsky did not get a speaking slot at the Oscars, he didn’t, Still waiting for the smelt down Sean. The man is a joke and a phoney.

    Reply

    1. Harry law….Zelensky is currently suggesting a Big Israel for the Ukraine but I don’t know how that will go down with his Nazis especially the Asov mob.This currently is playing well in Holywood but nobody mentioned what the part of the Dombass plays in the theatre of war…..Palestine?…The other comedian currently appearing in the Whitehouse Washington dc is not happy☺with the comedian “motor mouth” operating from his mansion in Miami beach and dictating to the new world order and so the show goes on with Britain relegated to “a bit player” and Zelensky looking to being shown what the CIA call sanctioned “if he cannot control comedy routine coming from his mouth 👄.

      Reply

      1. He certainly appears to be somewhat schizophrenic. After a couple of weeks of how the Russian are losing and repulsed we now have get out of eastern Ukraine to avoid death and destruction.

  23. my favourite oscar worthy news report was the sight of rifles being handed out to individuals in the street passing by at random. perhaps they are meant to return to their flats and dutifully shoot at passing vehicles which invoke heavy duty retaliation and generate new footage of wrecked blocks of flats? the neighbours must have appreciated such bravery.

    Reply

    1. charming64 – The Ukrainian people are fighting to repel Putin’s invasion of their sovereign territory. They are fighting for their freedom from Putin’s oppressive and corrupt dictatorship. They are fighting for their way of life and their county’s existence

      Reply

      3. SteveH: please answer my earlier question asking for your opinion on the shooting of prisoners of war by Ukrainians as evidenced in two videos now, the latter one verified as genuine by the American media? Is that a war crime?

      5. Forget about videos for a moment: Is shooting bound prisoners of war in batches likely to be a War Crime?

      6. And do you think ‘the World should be Outraged’? Should sanctions be applied?

      7. Paul – I’ll think about commenting once I’ve seen the video.

  24. I found myself listening to Today in Parliament on R4 yesterday where they were passing opinion about supplying more armaments to Ukraine. Only one Lord stood out in opposition; I missed his name except to say he was an ex-General Lord T (I think). He was very short and sweet and said sending more arms arms at this stage was a disastrous policy that would have two serious consequences; prolongation of the conflict and an increased risk of escalation. It’s hard to argue against that isn’t it?

    Reply

    1. Paul – That all depends on whether you think the Ukrainian people should capitulate to the corrupt imperialist dictatorship that is invading their country. Do you think that Britain should have thrown in the towel after Dunkirk?

      Reply

      1. Germany didn’t have nuclear weapons nor was it threatening to use them. BTW I thought you were against ‘living in the past?’.

      2. Has Ukraine been widely accused of gross corruption over the past 20 years? Is Ukraine still a democracy after all political parties not part of the government were banned a few weeks ago? Is summary execution of POW’s a war crime?

      3. Paul – Ukraine has a relatively new government in place now and they seemed to be doing a pretty good job before Putin (the sad bastard) decided that he would pump up his flagging ego by murdering thousands of Ukrainians so that the saddo can die an ‘imperialist hero’,
        It may have escaped your notice but Ukraine is at war and is currently under martial law.
        Of course the execution of a prisoner is wrong but you really do need to get a sense of perspective.

      4. BUT is it a war crime? Should the UN investigate? There is more evidence about the summary executions (videos of it happening) than there is for ‘Russian Atrocities’ which rely so much on an ‘ Ukrainian Offical’ said etc.

      5. Paul – I’m surprised that it has escaped your notice that the Uranian authorities are already investigating the incident.

      7. Paul – Well as Ukraine has already invited international investigators in to help then then hopefully ‘the truth will out’ If not the UN and/or the ICC have the option to step in where states are either unwilling or unable to carry out proper investigations into war crimes and hold the guilty to account.

      8. Seeing as how they’ll have 1.6 billion miles to travel, those Uranians might take a while to get there! 😀

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