Analysis comment

‘Forensic’? Starmer said he’d support EU trade bill that rules out any decent future Labour manifesto – when he hadn’t even read it

Starmer will put the cap on right-wing’s use of Brexit to topple Corbyn – by whipping Labour MPs to support Brexit bill that sentences UK people and industries to continued withering

On Christmas Eve, Keir Starmer announced that Labour would support the Tories’ trade deal with the EU – before he could have seen it or know what it contained. He couched his announcement in language of building a better Britain:

Labour accepts this deal and we will vote for it. We must now build a better future for our country and make Britain the best place to grow up in and the best place to grow old in.

If he had read it, he would have known that it contains provisions to lock in the worst of the right’s privatisation obsession – which involves enriching their mate at the cost of the rest of us, even when those mates have no competence to do what they’re receiving the cash for, whether that’s running ferries, providing ‘PPE’ or running other crucial crucial services in a national emergency.

And just as it locks those in, it locks out the possibility of reversing those appalling deals, let alone of a future Labour government restructuring the UK so it works for its people and does so efficiently – reforms that would have been implemented by a Corbyn government after either of the last two general elections:

The new treaty sets in stone the mis-named ‘competition law’ that prevents the UK government giving contracts to the intrinsically most competitive publicly-run services – intrinsically because they don’t take profit out and can pay the best wages that boost national and local economies to the best effect. And it renders illegal attempts to re-nationalise services by giving preference to public providers.

The right used the pipe-dream of another referendum and impossible promises of preventing Brexit to end Corbyn’s leadership – after years of internal sabotage that cost Labour the 2017 election – even though they were warned, by SKWAWKBOX and an array of other working-class voices, that their manoeuvres were going to lead to a hard Tory Brexit.

And now Keir Starmer has promised to support a deal that would make real changes to the system illegal – without even having seen it.

If there was ever any doubt that the Labour right’s push for a so-called ‘people’s vote’ was anything but an ‘end Corbyn’ tactic, that doubt has evaporated – right along with Starmer’s always-illusory claim to be ‘forensic’.

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84 comments

  1. Mr Woodentop is doing all he can to attract the support of about 10 red wall voters who “loaned” their votes to the Tories, and to get the S*n on his side. That is the limit of his “forensic” abilities [sic].

  2. Here is Keir’s detailed statement in full. I think it is well balanced and explains why he has reached the decision that Labour should vote for the deal.

    “As leader of the Labour Party, I have urged the government to get on with negotiating the Brexit deal that it promised. I wanted the talks to succeed. “I did so because a deal is in the national interest.
    Businesses need a deal. Working people need a deal. Families need a deal. The fact that the government was even considering no deal – during a global pandemic – was grossly irresponsible.
    “After months of negotiations, a deal has now been agreed. The choice facing parliament – the choice facing Labour – is now whether to accept that deal or reject it.
    “The deal is a thin agreement. It does not provide adequate protections for British manufacturing. Our financial services. Creative industries. Or workplace rights.
    “It is not the deal the government promised. Far from it. And there are serious questions about the government’s preparedness for the new arrangements.
    “Leaving everything to the last minute has made it even more difficult for businesses to be ready. A better deal could have been negotiated. But I accept that option has now gone. The chance for renegotiation is over.
    “There are just two paths now left for our country. To move forward with a deal. Or without one. No deal is simply not an option. The social, economic and political consequences would be devastating.
    “Jobs would be put at risk. Businesses would collapse. Investment would dry up. Our national security would be threatened.
    “The disruption we have seen at the Port of Dover in recent days would be the tip of the iceberg. And the cumulative effect – on top of the worst recession of any major economy – would be unimaginable.
    “Labour is against no deal. Firmly and absolutely. And the British people would never forgive us if we enabled a no deal outcome.
    “There are some that argue Labour should be neutral on this issue. To abstain. I do not agree.
    “Leadership is about taking the tough decisions in the national interest. It is about being a serious, responsible opposition. A government-in-waiting.
    “This is the deal Labour will inherit in 2024. It is something we will build on compared to the chaos of no deal. The public would expect a labour government to make it work.
    “And the EU would expect us to make it work. And to use it to protect our shared interests. Including the peace process in Northern Ireland.
    “At a moment of such national significance, it is not credible for Labour to be on the side lines. That is why I can say today that when this deal comes before Parliament, Labour will accept it and vote for it.
    “But let me be absolutely clear – and say directly to the government – up against no deal, we accept this deal, but the consequences of it are yours. And yours alone.
    “We will hold you to account for it. Every second you are in power. For the promises you have made. And the promises you break.
    “No longer can you blame somebody else. Responsibility for this deal – lies squarely at the door of Number 10.
    “I want to address the British people directly. I know how tired you are of Brexit. The endless negotiations. And political squabbles.
    “You want to move on. You want politicians in Westminster talking about the things that matter to you and your family.
    “Securing our economy. Protecting our NHS. And rebuilding our country. Those are my priorities. We are a great country. We have done extraordinary things.
    “Our NHS is the envy of the world. British scientists were among the first to discover a coronavirus vaccine.
    “I want to be Prime Minister because I believe a better future is possible for our country. That we can be even greater than we are today. That we can achieve so much more.
    “That we can stand proud on the world stage. And that we can make Britain the best place to grow up in and the best place to grow old in.
    “That is the change I believe in. That is the change I want. And with Labour under new leadership that is the change we offer. Thank you.

    1. To quote Catherine Tate’s ‘nan’: What a load of shit! (Said with great feeling). It sounds like a 1970s speech by John Tyndall spoken by a boring elitist with no morals.

      1. Was he trying to fit every known cliché into the most tediously self-congratulatory, virtue-signalling speech in a bid to win top spot in the Guinness Book of the World’s Worst Speeches?

        In the words of the great philosopher,
        “EARTH TO BORING DUDE…”

    2. Starmer didn’t have clue what he was signing up to, and to top the lot I doubt even Johnson had either. When a country negotiates with another, the democratic process is that parliament debates the content of the agreement then votes on what it thinks is best from their political perspective.

      Starmer though that has no political convictions whatsoever, just votes where he thinks the wind is blowing.

      What should also be obvious to any thinking person, is that we are a net importer of other peoples goods and services, so it’s not a case of competing with other countries on trade, because we have lost that battle when Thatcher dismantled our manufacturing base.

      There are still people in this country that swallow the myths that we can compete in global world where mega corporations dictate market philosophy rigged in their favour, by these trade deals, that mean they can move anywhere to where labour and living standards are cheapest.

      We need these Neo-Liberal trade like we need a hole in the head, but forensic Starmer wants us to accept it because to do otherwise would be to challenge the system that is destroying the world economy and impoverishing us all in the process.

      Starmer and the cronies he has put in place are the problem, and what we need is a transformative government that highlights the Neo-Liberal mythology peddled in the media and informs people how the economy actually works.

      Like Blair and Brown before him Starmer is busy selling us all down the river.

    3. EXreme caution required when reading propoganda from your very own democratic socialist Labour party and tribute act as presented by the troll Steve H,davidh and the original SH.

  3. I haven’t read the agreement obviously but if Skwawkbox is correct about the competition law preventing re- nationalisation then that’s why Starmer is willing to vote for it.
    Remember it was a Labour Government under Tony Blair which introduced privatisation under the Private Finance Initiative and Public Private Partnerships and Starmer a Blairite is simply following on from this. It will suit Starmer and all the other Blairites in the PLP if re-nationalisation is illegal under an International Trade Agreement and we are therefore unable to reverse the harm caused by the privatisation of our public services in the future.

    1. If an outgoing British government may not constrain…
      the actions of an incoming government…
      how far off can an ex-trading partner fuck…
      if it tries to do the same?

    2. Eh? Wot? It was Labour that introduced us to ‘Syd’?

      Blair and Brown can be blamed for many things, but not for the introduction of Privatisations. Their sin was not reversing the Tory Privatisations, when they had the chance.

      PFI’s and PPP’s were introduced by wee Norman Lamont. Brown picked them up and ran with them. He couldn’t control himself.

      Privatisation of the NHS began under ‘Uncle’ Ken Clarke. The same Ken Clarke that everyone seemed to swoon over, shortly before fleeing to his retirement home, in the HoL.

      Credit where it’s due. There’s no need for a history re-write.

  4. Wake up Skwawky, Labour has always agreed with European competition law with the exception of Corbyn, who may have managed to fudge/water it down in negotiations. It’s the backbone of the neoliberal EUs economic policy and beloved of rabid Europhiles who know it provides a revolving door and very lucrative business opportunities for them.

  5. James Kemp
    What do you expect from a sodding sir FFS! He is part of the scummy establishment he may claim to be Labour.

    He is really the same evil cult as the Tory scum all for their cronies and mates. Well, this is what you get when you elect a idiot you get a cult.

    1. “What do you expect from a sodding knight FFS.!Dasabled grandad…Well done I couldn’t have put it better and we both know that it says more about the Labour party and the membership than anything else that they could consider a Titled lawyer from Surrey to lead the Labour party.And that along with throwing Chris Williamson under the bus after the notorious druggy NEC kangaroo court was the final straw.for me and membership of the Labour and tribute act…..I couldn’t take the embarrassment any longer and reluctantly left before no doubt being pushed out.

  6. The current Labour leader is letting himself by controlled by the mainstream media.

    The decent MPs will do their duty and read the full agreement together with all the definitions annexes footnotes before making any decision on whether to support the agreement. The government does not need Labour support to pass the agreement but the opposition should highlight any issues which impact ordinary people or indeed the future of our NHS. Failing to do so will only cause more damage to the Labour Party.

  7. Craig Murray, as he often does has got it precisely. The ‘deal’ is a deal to reduce the UK’s influence in Europe whilst achieving precisely nothing.

    Look at virtually any hard goods you buy and you will see the ‘CE’ mark. This means that goods with the CE mark comply with ‘harmonised standards’ and can be sold in any EU country without having to go through individual standards tests. Britain was at the forefront in helping to establish those standards but from now on, if for whatever those standards in the EU change, we will still have to comply if we wish to sell our goods there but we will have absolutely no influencs on how those standards are drawn up.

    To those Lexiters who objected to us being in the EU because they say it prevented us nationalising our utilities. Now that we are out, we can go right ahead can’t we :-).

    You know quite well that the only government which would nationalise anything would be a Labour government and even in the EU there were ways to make it happen but you short sighted lextremists helped to ensure we didn’t get a Labour Government by refusing to back a confirmatory vote in case Leave was overturned.

    1. You know quite well that the only government which would nationalise anything would be a Labour government

      Really? A stammerist labour government would ntionalise anything?

      and even in the EU there were ways to make it happen but you short sighted lextremists helped to ensure we didn’t get a Labour Government by refusing to back a confirmatory vote in case Leave was overturned.

      Yeah which is why nobody bar thatcher ever got anything concessions-wise off the EU. Everyone else was sent home with their kecks around their ankles, crying for their mam.

      ‘We’ll change from within’

      Except they never…And where are we hearing that pjrase now? Oh yeah – that’s right…

      YOU was banging the then stammerist drum for the second referendum. The reason this has all come about is on YOUR toes, nobody else’s. YOU were warned about what stammer was up to and YOU called us ‘racist faragist knuckledraggers’ , amongst other things.

      …Well looky! There’s stammer, signing off on the toerag deal that he was dead set against – Remember? You should…’twas YOU wanted his second referendum; going against the democratically arrived at decision of the nation.

      You wouldn’t settle for a Corbyn-led socialist brexit – One that stammer himself would’ve had to negotiate…But he wasn’t even up to that.

      No, you wanted YOUR cake.

      Well now the fucking lot of us are choking on it. Well played, plums.

      1. Ok Toffee, smart ticket, apart from our ‘fantastic’ extra 4% of cod, be specific and let us know what else we have achieved by leaving the EU?

    2. Jack we can’t achieve anything under any Tory govnt under any circumstance under any large institution in lockstep with global capital of which the EU is also. The EU is a fucking trade deal nothing more nothing less. Tory brexit is brexit in name only for trade. But real brexit for rights. A corbyn govnt would have kept and improved the rights and left the anti nationalisation trade deal.

  8. The United Kingdom needed to come out of the EU to respect the original vote, then when the ERG and Farage sovereignty bubble can be well and truly burst,then the nation can then start to heal, after which re-negotiate entry back into the European Union with begging hands.
    Starmer has at last realised that the he is equally, culpable along with Swinson,Cameron, the for the current situation by being blinded his own ambition and his lack of understanding of popularist politics, now is the time for damage limitation.

    1. SM, apart from the referendum result only being ‘advisory’, when it came to implementing the result, so much more had become known about the consequences that the least we could have done is asked voters if they still agreed with their first choice, particularly since the result of the referendum was so close.

      1. Parliament voted on that advisory decision.
        The EU election in May and the GE19 gave validation to that decision in our current election system. WE came out of the EU at the end of 31st January 2019.
        The red-wall decided .

      2. particularly since the result of the referendum was so close

        Except it wasn’t so close at all, was it? .

        Almost 1.4 more people voted leave than remain. How many EU countries have populations less than that?

        Cyprus…Estonia…Luxembourg…And Malta.

        All those nations have power of veto over 450 MILLION+ others. That’s alright in your eyes but 1.4 million more people voting against YOU is undemocratic, isn’t it?

    2. There’ll be no going back. We’ll be out for at least 20 years by which time the EU, if it still exists, will most likely be comprised of the six original countries in a federation and all the rest (those with weaker economies and huge debt, thanks to the EU) will be out.

  9. Look hard enough at any “entity” and one will find examples of them attempting to “prevent, restrict or distort” competition – because humans – in competition – cheat.
    In every sphere of human endeavour – people cheat. It’s like a law of nature.
    “Competition” in the real world is nothing to do with providing best value (the lie behind capitalism’s justification of itself) – capitalism is all about maximising returns to principals – the investors. The holy grail of business has no investment, no product, no risk and no employees – just profits.
    Capitalism has fuck all interest in value, competition or efficiency except as they affect profits.

    Capitalists cheat “competition” – competitively – at every opportunity. The ideal of investors is to “beat the Market” – which is every bit as anticompetitive a business practice as cartels colluding, or the “cornering” of markets, or “donating” to politicians to buy advantage.
    PROVE that the capitalist system exploits every kind of unfair competition and unfair advantage and neoliberalism will be on the ropes.

    One can easily prove that free rail travel actually enhances competition elsewhere – let’s see the rail operating cartels compete with free travel.
    The same goes for other services we might wish to nationalise like water, electricity, internet, phones etc.
    The argument that free provision by government of the universal essentials suppresses demands on employers for higher wages – is one that SME employers will easily understand.

    The EU might not yet recognise the error of following Thatcher into neoliberalism – it hasn’t yet seen its tax take and its ability to provide services shrink year on year as corporations “avoid” more and more taxation – but as the less stupid politicians see their power, authority and relevance disappearing with those taxes and services they’ll come around to our way of thinking.
    Neoliberalism is approaching its inevitable end anyway – as the middle classes begin to find themselves unemployed and unemployable through no fault of their own – through new technology – the world will eventually understand and socialism will win by default.

    It’d still be worth trying to save everyone the pain of learning this shit the hard way over the next fifty years – unfortunately I can hardly even be arsed to keep on explaining it.

    1. At least Fifty years is the time frame Moggy stated, when the UK might see any benefit -that was before COVID .

  10. The man is a fraud, a charlatan whose trilateralism marks him as an atlanticist not a nationalist. His contemptuous appeal to red wall voters won’t go unnoticed, his political philosophy, his dogma, is the furtherance of American imperialism, globalism and limiting democracy at home through voter apathy. https://chomsky.info/priorities01/
    He is fulfilling his role.

    1. lundiel – The Carter Administration: Myth and Reality – Noam Chomsky – Excerpted from Radical Priorities, 1981

      It does make one wonder why nobody appears to have written much about this powerful organisation for 40 years

      1. Why? (Don’t answer that you bore me to death). It’s a secretive think tank of politicians and elitists, way above requiring publicity which could only be damaging.

      2. lundiel – But despite the explosion of the internet nobody has written anything of note about it for 40yrs.
        Why didn’t one of his opposing candidates or anyone else for that matter challenge Starmer about this during the leadership election campaign. There was more than ample opportunity.

      3. lundiel – Am I really supposed to take that seriously when it appears that nobody else has apart from a few of the self appointed guardians of ‘the left’ like yourself.
        As I said above nobody appears to written anything of note for 40 years. Why not

      4. Search “Trilateral Commission” or “British-American Project” and the first words out of Google’s arse are:
        “non-governmental, non-partisan, greater cooperation, confront challenges, broad spectrum, leadership, fellowship, not-for-profit, enrich relationships” and so on.

        Described in such bland terms anyone might imagine they had nothing whatever to do with manipulating governments to make the rich richer.

        At least the searches aren’t as far down the page rankings as they used to be – I’ve had to click back three or four full pages some years.

        Grow the fuck up.

      5. David – So can you give me a link to any evidence that shows how they have actually manipulated anything in the last decade. Or are you likewise relying on 40yr old articles (with a few pejorative flourishes thrown in for good luck) to support your assertions.

    2. It would appear that in return for losing all the benefits of being members of the EU we have scored a great victory by increasing our cod quota by 4% by by 2026 and hurling ourselves into the grasping arms of the USA – Thanks Lextreemists, what would we do without you!

      1. The Americans seem OK with chlorinated chicken, but I understand they deep fry it.
        Maybe you can’t taste the shite, pus and dead cockroach parts once it’s been deep fried?

  11. This agreement shows all the reasons why so many of us wanted and fought to see a principled fight against Brexit from the British left – only for that to be sabotaged by wild illusions of a “Socialism in one country” dream from you Lexiteers. Don’t now come crying to me.

    1. You are a bitter and twisted idiot who can’t let go. See my post below, growth is predicted at 4% for the next 4 years, something we haven’t achieved in 12 years.

      1. Predicted 🙂 Why is it that Lexstreemists are often so nasty with their comments?

      2. First growth is nearly always high after a crash, recession, pandemic, bullet-in-foot-brexit or a war.
        4% from a low base isn’t actually all that brilliant.
        From 1945 a bombed-flat Germany grew at 15 to 20% per annum.

        Brexit makes you proud to be British, doesn’t it?

      3. McNiven….you were predicting a “clusterfuck” in another comment, now you are trying to downplay growth. You can’t have it both ways.

      4. lundiel, your reasoning escapes me – in what sense (or Universe) are a stagnant economy and a government clusterfuck mutually exclusive?

        This morning BBC News is playing up a rise in the FTSE as if it heralds a new dawn instead of jjust hopes for the new vaccines and the long-delayed Brexit “deal” – the terms and effects of which are as yet hardly understood even by those who negotiated them.

        Rises in markets based on euphoria, predictions, promises and wishful thinking are defining characteristics of embryonic bubbles – nothing more.

  12. As usual, this deal is a win/win situation for the ruling class and international finance and another punch in the face for the working class, be they French, British or whoever. That should be Labour’s position but it never has been and probably never will be if, as seems likely, the Corbyn era was just an inconvenient blip. This was always going to be the outcome once Starmer and co had sabotaged any alternative (Keith & Bojo are two sides of the same coin). Of course we’ll go on fighting across europe despite the EUphiles and lickspittles of monopoly capitalism who infest the Labour Party, plus much of the european left, and even frequent these pages sometimes.

    https://monthlyreview.org/2020/12/01/the-elephant-in-the-room/

  13. Anyone who commits to something without having read any details of what they are committing to has no business running a whelk stall never mind being Prime Minister running a Government.

    Such people are only topped by the sycophanticly stupid who would vote for such people and argue that such a position represents a “well balanced” one.

    Some BTL comments have provided a link to a truly balanced statement by someone who, unlike Starker and his dumb sycophants, does know their arse from their elbow -Craig Murray.

    However, an equally relevant observation on how dangerous this deal is is made by Tax expert Richard Murphy here:

    https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2020/12/24/there-will-be-dancing-in-the-uks-tax-havens-this-christmas/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+org%2FlWWh+%28Tax+Research+UK+2%29

    Who, along with some equally relevant BTL comments, outlines what this means in terms of a better deal for tax havens and the laundering of dirty money. With the City of London Corporation set to act as the world center for siphoning off money from the Commons. The UK effectively becoming the biggest and most flagrant financial and rogue trading nation right on the doorstep of Europe.

    Make no mistake young stevieH, what you are enthusiasicly supporting in your hero worship sycophancy will pauperise vast numbers of people not just in the UK but also across Europe as standards are systematically undermined and the funding necessary for public funding is siphoned off through the resumption of business as usual for the 0.01% and large bloated, incompetent and uncompetitive Corporations and criminal enterprises through the recreation of new UK Tax havens no longer subject to any regulations or checks on their greed and criminality.

    It would not be so bad if it were only those who ignorantly support those like Starmer et al, who come out with this nonsense at the behest of their paymasters, who suffered the consequences. Unfortunately, the real world does not operate that way and the majority will have to cope with the consequences of the sycophancy and stupidity of those who clearly have no clue whatsoever.

    1. Dave Hansell – Perhaps you could explain how Labour voting against this deal will alter any of the above one iota.

      1. SteveH, because it isn’t the deal promised by Bozo the dangerous clown. Therefore Labour should have more sense and not commit the errors of the past and be held jointly accountable when it goes tits up as it surely will.

      2. Jack – Your post doesn’t really address the point I am making. A vote against Johnson’s deal would be a vote for the only other option available No Deal. As all right minded people know that No Deal would he the worst possible outcome it would be nonsensical for Labour to vote alongside the rabid capitalists of the ERG against the deal.
        Where is the integrity in knowingly voting to make people’s lives worse than they need to be. That leaves us with just 2 options (vote for the deal or abstain). Personally I still currently prefer abstention but I do also recognise that there is an alternative argument that supports Starmer’s position.

        This is how Peter Bradley (ex Labour MP for Wrekin 97-05) puts the argument.
        “Voting for the deal is by no means an endorsement of its woeful contents, nor complicity in their consequences; it does not signify a desertion of former principles. It should not be based on an anxious appeasement of lost Labour voters in the ‘Red Wall’ seats, and certainly not on how the Tories and a hostile press will respond. It ought rather to be a matter of principle.
        “In reality, voting for the deal is simply the best/least worst option available, and Labour should want the best/least worst for the British people. As the opposition, we have a duty to try to make the best of the least worst because that is the only choice we have. Doing so doesn’t prevent Labour from pinning the terms of the deal on Boris Johnson and the Conservatives; it doesn’t prevent us from holding the government to account for the consequences. It doesn’t prevent us from arguing for a better deal – or even for a new relationship with the EU.
        “It does mean that we accept that the reality has changed: those who wanted to remain in the EU have lost. We can be Exiles or Renegotiators or even, eventually, Rejoiners, but we can no longer be Remainers. The decisions we make and the policies and strategies we develop must be based on where we are and where we can get to from here, not on where we might have been had this government been less venal or Labour a more effective opposition over the last four years.

        https://labourlist.org/2020/12/voting-for-boris-johnsons-deal-is-labours-least-worst-option/

    2. SteveH, “A vote against Johnson’s deal would be a vote for the only other option available No Deal”.I don’t accept your self imposed strictures. You know perfectly well that when Brexit proves to be a disaster, if Labour votes for this deal Labour will share the blame and the Tories know it. Starmer should let the Tories and the Brexiteers own it and vote against.

  14. I don’t know who made this photomontage (apologies to its creator) but it sums up instantly and visually almost all the most significant developments in British politics over the past 3 years. Anyone who is prepared to countenance even the tiniest whimper issuing from the mouth of this treacherous, sneering enemy of the working class needs their head testing.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159374838090730

  15. What all the right wing Labour MPs – given that their real loyalties are to their own advancement not to Starmite – should be asking themselves is “Can the wanker Johnson’s half-arsed Brexit deal possibly be good for the majority of UK voters – or for me personally if I vote for it?”
    If Labour supports a shite deal they share the blame for Tory failure – that’s a given. Even if Johnson’s deal turned into a runaway success – and what are the chances of THAT happening – would Labour share any credit just for voting for it in Parliament? Of course not.
    Maybe they’re all stupid or maybe they’re all pussies and wusses terrified of the whips – but they have to know that the smart money will be heavily against Johnson’s desperation-driven last minute deal being a winner.
    It’s sheer stupidity to back EITHER of those two glue factory rejects.
    Tories rebelling, ditching BloJob and everyone agreeing to pretend Brexit never happened is more likely than a Tory making a success of Brexit – and, incidentally, would hardly raise a murmur of complaint from the EU.
    Of course the likelihood of Parliament actually rejecting the deal is vanishingly remote however bad it is, but that’s not the point of voting against it.
    Voting against a stupid, disastrous Tory deal that will later be seen only to have served the Tories and their mates – even at the cost of a Starmite hissy fit and losing the whip – will be what makes Labour MPs’ reputations in the long run.

  16. Interesting figures from Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) which makes an annual growth forecast (economic league table) on 26th December. It believes that Britain’s post Brexit growth will be 4% annually from 2021-25 and 1.8% annually from 2026-30 (after shrinking in 2020). Something we haven’t achieved since 1999. While it benefits from a very low starting point, it certainly isn’t the cliff-edge disaster predicted/desired by rabid Europhiles. Stalin must know this and it is likely a part of the reason he’s decided that Nu, Nu Labour will join the Tories and vote for the deal.

    1. I think somebody might have meant since 2009, not 1999?
      Don’t let a little thing like a global financial crash and a decade of austerity stop you singing the praises of Brexit’s (predicted) mighty 4% growth though…
      CEBR – hailed by an ex-chancellor’s newspaper as “having a tendency to get things right” – just like George always did.

  17. Simple. Starmer whipping the Party MP’s to vote for something he has not even bothered to read has the effect of legitimising the scam which is taking place of the UK effectively becoming an offshore tax haven Freeport. Which makes it not just difficult but next to impossible to reverse as there is no effective opposition, including an opposing narrative necessary to inform and create alternatives to the ensuing pauperisation.

    The job of leader of the opposition is self explanatory. When the only opposing he and his sycophantic fellow travellers are clearly interested in is acting as a sub contractor for the Spivs to oppose any alternative to this – for example by sacking thousands of its own volunteer foot soldiers and destroying any democratic alternative to the interests of those who are pulling his strings – it’s clear to a blind man on a galloping horse that he’s not even interested in fulfilling that LOTO role.

    The pertinent question is not the here and now of an agreement which the present Parliamentary Spivs majority will gleefully push through its the future credibility of anyone attempting to even alleviate the deeply harmful outcomes which will ensue when they themselves have enthusiasticly endorsed the arrangements which produced such outcomes.

    It’s not exactly quantum mechanics is it son? What are they teaching kids these days that the bleedin’ obvious has to be Janet and John’d for them?

  18. Remainers wanted a second referendum – Knowing full well it meant no socialist labour
    government, negotiating brexit terms.

    They gladly accepted stammer as the major part of that package. Despite repeated warnings.

    It was always gonna be one or the other. They wanted to remain in the EU. That was (Probably still is) their priorty; way ahead of any socialist government.

    Being the puerile childish spolt twats they are, they blame those who told them it would see massive losses for socilist labour in marginal seats where leave was the preference.

    They were told that EU was the bane of the toerags’ harmony and had been for 40 odd years, and that letting the leave vote run it’s course would see the ‘rags implode…but they STILL wanted to piss people off further by refusing them their democratically arrived at decision and alienating the floating voters.

    Now they blame those who warned them about stammer…That’s after they laughed, and called their (alleged) ncomrades they were ‘faragist racist knuckledraggers’ for even suggesting such things.

    Well guess what? MY conscience is clear. Wasn’t ME enabled stammer to piss you off by agreeing to a toerag brexit that he more or less promised you would NEVER happen.

    I’m just one of the many poor bastards has to suffer another 10yrs+ (AT LEAST) of toerag rule.

    Thanks, comrades

    1. Because we know that any Brexit deal is worse than the deal we had, the democratic left will have no problem in rejecting the deal which Starmer said he will support. However it leaves the anti-democratic left, i.e the Brextremists with a problem. Do they go with Starmer, a figure they hate, or do they reject the deal because it is not a hard enough Brexit for them?https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2020/12/brexit-no-cause-celebration-moment-national-shame

  19. Flicking thru the usual sites this morning, as one does, I read this, the first line of this article, on The Skwakbox
    “Starmer will put the cap on right-wing’s use of Brexit to topple Corbyn…………………..”; and I thought:, what?
    I wasnt going to, but now I had to read the article, how can Skwawky possibly link Starmer and Brexit to ‘topple’ Corbyn?
    I’m usually good at this, reading the headline of a Skwawkbox article and working out before I read it what the contorted line of argument will be. But this time Skwawky had the better of me.
    How can Corbyn be toppled when he is not even a member of the Labour’s PLP? Starmer has already toppled him.
    For what its worth the link is in this para,
    “And just as it locks those in, it locks out the possibility of reversing those appalling deals, let alone of a future Labour government restructuring the UK so it works for its people and does so efficiently – reforms that would have been implemented by a Corbyn government after either of the last two general elections:”
    And as we can all see that the logic in that argument is spurious and very naughty of The Skwawkbox as it would require a time machine to implement this line of reason. Its nostalgia.
    Look I’ve got to go but for your own mental healthy accept reality and move on. Corbyn is gone, he is like a Ford Anglia on the scrap heap, there is a new Tesla in the drive way now.

      1. baz200127/12/2020 AT 10:47 PM
        I thought that was a good analogy. I prefer cars as a metaphor. They are better than the useless spatial metaphors we are constantly bombarded with on this site. Left, far left, right, far right, and the most annoying of them all, ‘centrist’. I mean? how the fuck does that help explain anything.
        No. cars are much better.
        When I look at politicians I see cars. For example when I look at Boris Johnson I see a P5 Rover from the early 1960s. The P5 was a big 3litre straight 6, but in Johnson’s case the engine is only firing on 5.
        You should try it.

  20. Well at least you can take some comfort in the indisputable fact that, when Brexit turns out to be a complete clusterfuck, it won’t be the fault of you heroes who voted FOR it, it’ll be the fault of those idiot bastard remainers who voted AGAINST it.
    THEY made it a disaster.
    REMAINERS forced the Labour heartlands to vote Tory – obviously the most important thing was to stop the EU stopping Labour nationalisating anything – so obviously the heartlands HAD to vote Tory or Labour couldn’t nationalise anything, see?
    Brexit would have been BRILLIANT with a BRILLIANT Labour deal.
    Obviously Brexit voters based all their calculations on having a Labour government but they HAD to vote Tory to stop the Labour remainiacs stopping Brexit, see?
    At least now with the worst Tory government in history and the shittest Brexit deal imaginable those stupid remainers have got what they deserve. And next time they’ll LISTEN to Farage UKIP us.
    Cos OUR plan made PERFECT sense and REMAINERS RUINED IT.

  21. Yeah.

    Tell it to the marines, mac.

    Wasn’t one fuckwit remainer savvy enough to tumble to the fact that the rags got in in 2015 by being the ONLY party to offer a referendum. If that wasn’t a fucking glaringly obvous clue to what the nation wanted then you’re just a fucktard not worth bothering with.

    You gonna blame the likes of me for that, too?

    Or you gonna blame the two eds; who wanted more austerity? Where was the alternative back in ’15, mac?

    At least with Corbyn you’d have had an end to austerity…And the price of that was always gonna leaving the EU because people said NO not just once – but twice.

    Get it into your fucking dense cranium that people said NO and they fucking well meant it BOTH TIMES.

    But the precious 70% didn’t want brexit OR a socialist government negotiating one, did they?

    No – they knew better. The 350k thought they knew best for the 17.4 MILLION who told the EU and the political classes to get thoroughly bent.

    Thery were repeatedly warned that they would lumber this country with decades more of neo-conservative rule if they reneged on their POLICY to respect the result…But they went ahead anyway.

    Go on – remind us how YOU voted to change that policy….Oh that’s right YOU never.

    Happy to complain about the delegations being rigged on favour of the right, though, eh?

    Worrabourt democracy in THAT instance then, plums? didn’t apply when it went the way you wanted it despite you having ZERO say in the fucking matter. Hypocrite.

    Happy to alienate the already pissed-off floating voters even more…Remeber the arld girl in Bristol? ”What? ANOTHER ONE??”

    Yep. Her and millons of others like her, meself included, being infuriated by a few gobshites pigheadedness spilt bastard behaviour, thinking you all know what’s best for me?

    All because middle class remainers know best. And now they pile the blame for the stammer-endorsed withdrawal on leaver’s toes, despite them being the ones what enabled stammer in the first fucking place.

    Tough fucking shit you didn’t get your way on brexit, buster. But despite that, you lumber us with yet other establishment moron and ridiculously attempt to palm the blame off on us.

    Own YOUR fuck ups.

    1. Excellent points, The Toffee. An excellent editorial here too, from today’s online Morning Star on the Brexit issue. https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/brexit-deal-priorities-socialist-left

      The Morning star puts its journalistic finger very accurately on the tragedy, indeed the farce, of the majority of the UK’s , overwhelmingly middle class, relatively privileged so-called current ‘Left’ , in its total delusion that the entirely neoliberal EU was ever some form of ‘progressive , benevolent, internationalism’ ! A sad reflection of the almost total social and political isolation of what passes for today’s ‘Left’ (even the supposedly ‘Marxist’ grouplets) , from the mass of the working class , their views, and their experiences of day to day suffering under the lash of unlimited labour supply, and ever greater EU-promoted, privatisation and deregulation . The UK now has not only a totally pro-neoliberal capitalist Labour Party (again), but a faux ‘Left’ that in the main is merely ‘Left Liberal’ , with no belief or ambition to move beyond the capitalist status quo.

      The Left Liberal faux ‘Left’ is certainly well represented in the comments on Skwawkbox ! And, as you say, The Toffee, despite all our warnings prior to the 2019 Election of the inevitable disastrous consequence to Labour in adopting 2nd Ref and Remain in 2019, it is apparently OUR FAULT that Labour was, and is, totally fucked , as we predicted.

      1. Without Brexit and with Corbyn Labour would have FUCKING WALKED IT in 2017 and this would be a VERY different country.
        Deny THAT, dickheads, and defend Brexit some more, why don’t you?

      2. Dearie, dearie, me, McNiven. Tragic , amnesiac, stuff ! So you claim, that, ” Without Brexit , and with Corbyn, Labour would have fucking walked it in 2017 and this would be a very different country “. This just about sums up the ignorance and non sequitur ‘what iffery’ of the Left Liberal EU-lovers – who lost us the 2019 election, by joining with the pro EU Right to betray our clear 2017 pledge to ‘respect the Referendum result ‘ – and hence lost our old Labour Heartland vote. This is just so much rubbish on so many counts:

        1. Labour had already lost the 50 old Scottish heartland seats – after decades of Right wing Murphy/Blairism and endemic corruption – to the Left-faking SNP – and so , even if the Brexit vote had never happened , even Corbyn’s huge vote increase in 2017 was never going to win Labour enough SEATS to win a majority in Parliament.

        2. But the Brexit vote , to LEAVE, DID happen, McNiven – and the pro Leave sentiments of so many traditional working class Labour voters were actually mainly down to perfectly reasonable class-based reasons, eg, the massive negative impact of EU-enabled unlimited labour supply on unskilled and semi skilled wages and conditions and opportunities , the quite correct assessment of the EU as being an undemocratic enforcement machine for ever-greater austerity and privatisation and deregulation, not just the ‘knuckle-dragging racism’ the Left Liberal middle class ‘Left’ contemptuously assigned to working class Leave voters.

        3. IF , somehow , Corbyn-led Labour HAD won the 2017 General Election with a majority (actually impossible without the old Scottish seats) , a UK still trapped within the neoliberalism-enforcing competition rules of the EU – particularly those banning comprehensive re-nationalisation of entire sectors, enforcing ‘balanced budget’ Austerity , and banning most state aid support , would have been able to carry out hardly ANY of the key policy pledges of the 2017 , or indeed the 2019, Manifestos ! Denial of this FACT is a key part of the ignorant pro EU Left Liberal fantasy world that McNiven and co inhabit

        It was the pro-EU Labour Party , both its Right and nominally ‘Left’ wings, which arrogantly betrayed its mass working class , Leave-supporting, voter base -( in addition to local Labour councils cravenly implementing Austerity for the Tories for ten years in Labour Heartland areas), which lost the 2019 General Election – smashed the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity of ‘Corbynism’, and smashed the Labour Party electorally forever. Bleating on , as McNiven and co do – – to blame the VOTERS, not Labour’s betrayal – is just so typical of a delusional Left Liberal, ‘Left, which simply cannot bear to face up to its culpability for the epochal 2019 defeat of Corbynism and Labour.

      3. jpenney – “But the Brexit vote , to LEAVE, DID happen”

        Lextremists such as yourself are always careful where they start the story. Yes, the Brexit vote did happen but why did we even have a Brexit campaign in the first place?

        It was because Cameron wanted to save his Party from the far right and Farage who were hiving off his members in droves. Then of course people like you jumped on the Leave band wagon and by failing to counteract the lies Farage preached to the ‘red wall’ constituencies that it was ‘all the fault of the immigrants’ you assisted in this far right Brexit.

        During the interim before it became time to implement the result, it was obvious that many voters had changed their mind when they realised the downside. It was therefore suggested that we have a confirmatory vote on any proposed deal. At the thought of this, the far right and the Lextremists were apoplectic in horror in case the original result was reversed, it was far too much democracy for them. The Lextremists blamed Corbyn for even considering it and sided with the far right to convince many voters in ‘working class’ areas that they were having the right to injure themselves taken away from them. Their plight was not the concern of Lextremists, they just wanted their Brexit at any cost.

        There is no doubt whatsoever it was Lextremists such as yourself and others on the anti-democratic left who grace these columns, who lost us the election and gave us the disaster of Brexit – you now own it!

    2. I’m not middle class, I didn’t vote either way in the stupid lose/lose referendum and the only person I’ve voted for since Blair was elected – WITHOUT my vote – is Corbyn.
      Deny, deny, deny all you want – a child could see through your self-contradictory schtick it’s so thin.

      Unlike you I will NEVER have to justify any position I EVER hold by defending dumb fucks who vote Tory.

      1. Not middle class , McNiven ? I’ll have to take your word for it, Davie boy. You will be an exception on the ‘Corbynite’ faux ‘Left’ in the UK then. Not actually a socialist – but just a confused Left Liberal – definitely though – and, by your regular ignorant posts — demonstrably irrefutable.

      2. I didn’t vote either way in the stupid lose/lose referendum

        Then you’ve forfeited your right to complain about those who voted either way – let alone those who voted leave – with whom you seem to have the crib.

        If it was lose/lose then why kick off about how shit it’d have been under a socialist labour Govt, like you did? According to you it was fait accompli</i<, so if I say stammer wasn't up to the job of negotiating a better deal; or how he deliberately conspired with fatberg and hodge etc, to bollocks the party's chances of government by steamrollering through a second ref that the country wasn't EVER gonna be interested in (And proved as much) then who are you to criticise those points?

        Oh, and before you start on how I should supposedly be forfeit because I refused to vote for angela illeagle…

        I voted illeagle previously. On more than one occasion. The reason I refused to last time was because of Corbyn – NOT despite him.

        The referendum was a one-off and was always intended to be so. The people spoke, and they said no..They didn’t say ‘maybe’. We each of us knew the referendum was coming; for those who didn’t bother to educate themselves even a little, but chose to rely on the politicians to tell them, and those same people who now regret it – hard shit.

        I regret every single time I voted illeagle. I never wanted to even the first time around but did. I’ll never do so again. I’d vote for a socialist candidate under the labour banner, though. Not that we’ll get one here, given the amount of snides within the party as it stands.

      3. Meaningless shite like “demonstrably irrefutable” only impresses the even more clueless.
        I’ve heard of “Dickheads With Dictionaries” but you’re the first member I’ve met.

  22. It was because Cameron wanted to save his Party from the far right and Farage who were hiving off his members in droves. Then of course people like you jumped on the Leave band wagon and by failing to counteract the lies Farage preached to the ‘red wall’ constituencies that it was ‘all the fault of the immigrants’ you assisted in this far right Brexit.

    Of course, jackanory. God, but you’re clever, you.

    Remind us all how many votes the lib dims would steal from labour if we didn’t allow stammer to shithouse his second referendum (that nobody was interested in, and so it was proved undeniably in the election) again?

    Remind us all who warned it’d lead to labour haemorrhaging seats in marginals like nobody’s business?

    Remind us all who dismissed those warnings as ‘faragist knuckledragging claptrap’?

    Remind us all just how long it took stammer to drop brexit like a hot potato and start with the antisemitism he mysteriously was silent on pre-leadership campaign?

    No coincidence at all, is it?

    YOU wanted the EU over a Corbyn led socialist government. You got neither because you dismissed us as cranks. We’ve all got the opposition YOU deserve.

    And in the same way stammer’s gone with the antisemitism palaver since becoming leader; you’ve gone all ‘You’re just a zionist extremist collaborator’ on anyone who gives an analysis on your fuck up.

    You can’t use the ‘faragist ukipper'</i< accusation anymore, because your mate stammer dropped the EU altogether the second the leadership result was announced.

    You'd have done so if stammer hadn't let the mask slip. But he fooked you off didn't he?

    And now you hate him for ratting you out, every bit as much as you hate us for having the decency to warn you about his little game and being right with our predictions.

    When in reality you just hate yourself becasue you know what I've said is correct. You just have to keep denying it and pouring the blame onto everyone but yourself…

    Well, it hasn't worked and it never will. Make peace with yourself, jack. Accept that it was YOUR hubris led to what we're enduring now.

    Be a man.

    1. That’s a long pointless ramble Toffee to hide your guilt and stupidity 🙂

      1. IDGAF how verbose the reply was.

        I didn’t support stammer. You did.

        You knew full well stammer was a Zionist but you complain of it only when he became supposed opposition leader… NO coincidence that it was at that exact time when he dropped any pretence that his power grab was about the EU and since had gone full tilt antisemitism witch-hunt … A bit like you’ve gone full tilt Zionist accuser instead of your former favourite accusation that all leavers were faragist neo Nazi knuckledraggers.

        No coincidence there, neither. Can’t bear the fact stammer’s left you with less than fuck all to scream at people for.

        The oldest shithouse Zionist trick in the book… promised you the earth and YOU fell for it…hahahaha.

        You wanted the EU, NOT a socialist government. You were never gonna get both and your protestations over fatberg doesn’t paper over the fact you openly supported stammer…. And he sold you out like you were repeatedly told he would.

        And you still don’t get it. You never will because you don’t know your arse from stammers elbow; nevermind your own, softarse.

        You’ve allowed yourself to be played like a cheap fiddle. And we all have to suffer the consequences of your puerile, spoilt bastard childishness.

        So keep screaming your zionist accusations, moron. They carry as much weight as a left uppercut off lena zavaroni.

        And remember…YOU supported the idiot who allows the zionists you hate to run your party.

        Dead clever, you.

      2. Toffee, just remember, when you try and build a case on a lie, everything that follows is just like you, a waste of time.

      3. Who’s lying, jackanory?

        The person who openly supported stammer’s shithousery while never failing to mention his hatred of fatberg watson as some sort of foil; and now pretends he never did support stammer?

        OR

        Those Anti-eu, faragist, fascist, racist knuckledraggers’, who suddenly metamorhposised into being zionist collaborators the second stammer dropped all pretence his powergrab was about the eu?

        Or do you deny you ever labelled anyone any of those things?

      4. Toffee, you are running a close second to White Flag Man for obsessive rambling.

  23. Socialism’s biggest mistake was failing to explain that free movement – even the whole EU construct itself – are just A FEW of capitalism’s tools – that even if Farage’s dupes could stop ALL immigration and ALL other EU interference in UK affairs, UK capitalists have A HUNDRED more tools to suppress UK wages and conditions.

    This politics shit isn’t rocket surgery.

    Kowtowing to the fucktard neofascist followers of that populist Kermit-faced cunt hasn’t moved socialism forward one inch – the opposite in fact.

    Fortunately I believe the lurch to the right is temporary and won’t survive the reality of Brexit – even if the EU does snigger a bit behind its hand when the Euro reaches parity with Sterling.
    Another ten percent on your shopping bill. Kerching, dickheads.

    The EU won’t hold Brexit against us forever.
    They’ll probably even drop food parcels to keep your kids from starving.

  24. Not quite Jackanory, but a true story on events since early 2019….

    SocialistLeaver (SL): ‘I think we shoud repsect the referendum result,; it’s the biggest issue the electorate are interesting in; outweighing just about everthing else combined…Maybe except austerity’

    Jackanory (J): ‘ Faragist! Racist! ukip knuckledragging scumbag!! Stammer’s quite correct. The referendum was undemocratic,we need another, then another after that if the result matches the original. Anyway, fatberg watson and hodge and their israeli friends and their exaggerated antiemitism claims is what everyone wants to know about; they’re costing labour millions of votes – NOT the referendum we’ll have until we win.’

    SL: ‘But stammer was actually seen colluding with fatberg; they’re two sides of the same coin. Fatberg’s the antisemitism side – stammer the remainer side (For now). It’s all to undermine socialism within the party. Just take a look at how many LFI are remainers…’

    J: ‘Insolence! stammer’s doing what’s right for the nation…It’s fatberg and them jews harming Corbyn’

    SL: ‘stammer’s out for himself; same as the bespactacled vat of lard…stammer’ll use the antisemitism when it suits him; that’s to say, when he’s got nothing left. The public aren’t anywhere near as interested in AS claims as they are Brexit…And If the centrist, so-called ‘moderates’ get their way, the floating vote will get thoroughly pissed off with having to be told they’ll have to vote again and again until they vote to stay, and will just vote rag to get the matter settled qui…’

    J: ‘…Bollocks; those lib dims will rob squintillions of labour votes if we allow them to be the party of remain, get it into your thick, racist skulls ffs’

    SL: You mean those lib dims who are contradicting themselves every two bleedin’ minutes and have nowt else on labour but imaginary antisemitism allegations? They’re not even close in the top 60 or so marginals where leave is ahead’

    J:‘Marginals, schmarginals, and I don’t care if that’s antisemitic, stammer’s right, fatberg’s a cnut and so are all LFI and leavers.’

    SL:‘Ok,ok, have it your way…Don’t say you weren’t warned. See ya in a few months when stammer’s plan comes to fruition and we go back to the previous 40-odd years of tory-lite labour; when you’re blaming everyone but yerself for it.

    J; ‘Yeah right, racist – we’re gonna see just how wrong you are, racist scum…’

    ONE YEAR ON…

    SL: Doesn’t give me any pleaseure to say I told you so…But ffs EIGHTY fooking seats, and were STILL leaving the EU!! And just look at who’s dropped the EU – In fact, he’s now gone full arse-about-face by actually ENDORSING toerag brexit and resorted to AS as soon as he seized the reins because he’s got nothing left.

    J: ‘ WAAAAGH! YOU ZIONIST COLLABORATING BASTARD; IT’S ALL YOUR FAULT!!’

    THE END.

    1. Toffee, remember when you were in remedial class and the teacher said you would end up in the gutter if you didn’t buck up? – She was right!

      1. You still denying the sequence of events then, clever feller?

        Ho-hum. I suppose. my teacher was called Jenny Formby, too, eh, softlad?

        To paraphrase Oscar Wilde: “We are all in the gutter, but some of us actually believed stammer was a superstar’

        Isn’t that right, jackanory? You certainly did when he was promising you he’d stop Brexit.

        But still, even us remedialstold you what he was about from day one. And yet he roundly dry-bummed you over Brexit AND antisemitism in the end, didn’t he?

        It’d be fucking hilariously amusing… If people weren’t suffering now as a direct result of your imbecility.

        And you talk of others being taught in the ‘remedial class’ Tsk! 🙄

  25. He’s been on a massive diet or he’s had the dripping sucked out of him – either way you can’t call him Fatberg anymore.
    Give him his due, he’s totally reinvented himself.
    He’s something completely new now.
    I think it’s called a “Fatberg Ripple.”

  26. Fatberg Watson might have ‘reversed’ his type 2 diabetes, but he’ll never be able to reverse his weapons-grade shithousery, the rat’s bastard.

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