UK centrists have tried to claim Joe Biden’s snail’s-pace election victory over Donald Trump is a vindication for their politics – in spite of the obvious truths that Biden’s success in previously-Republican states was driven by Bernie Sanders telling his supporters to back Biden to get rid of Trump despite the Democrats repeated manoeuvres to bar Sanders from the candidacy, and probably even more, by the Black Lives Matter movement’s voter registration drive and ‘get out the vote’ efforts.
But Biden himself punctured the UK centrists’ bubble in four words when the BBC tried to get a quick word from him, in a clip shown as part of a ‘supercut’ of moments from his presidential campaign:
For centrists, who love the status quo more than anything, dread real change and pine for things to stay as near as possible to the same with the EU, Biden’s ‘The BBC? I’m Irish’ refusal shows that he is not entirely aligned with their hopes – and is likely to be unhelpful to the UK’s attempts to get a workable trade deal with the EU.
Biden had already made it clear that any impact on the Good Friday Agreement is unacceptable to him, driven at least in part by his pride in his Irish ancestry – and it was clear from his comment to the BBC that those issues were not too far from his mind even on the day he was declared the winner of the election.
Centrists are highly unlikely to admit this, of course. Their propaganda war is too important to them for inconvenient truths to be allowed to intrude.
The SKWAWKBOX needs your help. The site is provided free of charge but depends on the support of its readers to be viable. If you can afford to, please click here to arrange a one-off or modest monthly donation via PayPal or here to set up a monthly donation via GoCardless (SKWAWKBOX will contact you to confirm the GoCardless amount). Thanks for your solidarity so SKWAWKBOX can keep bringing you information the Establishment would prefer you not to know about.
If you wish to republish this post for non-commercial use, you are welcome to do so – see here for more.
WGAF what he considers himself to be? He’s still Wall St’s man.
And If I was Iranian or Venezuelan, I’d be rather concerned right now.
Money, vast amounts of it, is a requirement for American elections, so that the vote can be skewed in your direction. In that way, the rich maintain the power.
The UK is only marginally different. Installing your man or woman requires loads of cash, and therefore the selection of “appropriate” candidates for power. It also helps if the candidate is rich in their own right. I mean who would want someone who promotes the interests of the general population, the poor, the needy, and the sick at both home and abroad, whilst ensuring that tax evaders and avoiders pay their dues?
A surprisingly good , highly critical, analysis of the utter political bankruptcy and personal corruption of the semi senile , classic machine politician insider, Joe Biden, and his totally dominant neoliberal wing of the Democrat Party, in the otherwise predictably euphoric Guardian yesterday .Worth a read : https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/07/trump-defeat-election
The MSM narrative certainly on the Guardianista centrist win, currently is the ludicrous proposition that the current electoral defeat of Trump also represents the defeat of ‘populism ‘ in the US – just as in the UK the defeat of Corbyn supposedly also represents the ‘defeat of populism’ too ! Because the MSM, particularly its pseudo ‘Left Liberal’ wing, likes to de-politicise and crudely merge together the very different radicalisms of both the Left and Right, as being ‘the same ‘, as opposed to their neoliberal centrist ‘commonsense moderation’ . That all the US political system could put up against that unstable narcissist racist con-man, Donald Trump, was a semi-senile 77 year old , often confused, total , corrupt, political insider , Joe Biden – and still Trump and his rag bag of pseudo ‘anti establishment’ poses and toxic divisive politics gained THREE MILLION more votes from the desperate people ‘Trumpism’ appeals to than in 2016 , says quite clearly that the eventual collapse of the entire Us political system still looms ahead . Biden will do NOTHING to better the desperate lives of the huge numbers of desperate people that have been conned into believing the lies and false promises of Trump and his cronies, and unless the US Left builds something soon to offer a Left route out of the continuing fall in the living standards of millions of those poorer Americans who form a major part of the Tump activist , street base of Trumpism – in 2024 an even BIGGER neo-fascist , pseudo-radical, political challenge to the US status quo will re-emerge – maybe even with Trump as its Leader yet again – or given his dotage – somebody even more sinister. .
I really appreciated your post. ☮️
Doing as all “Centrists” have done, do and will ALWAYS do.
And this what “Centrists” enabled here in the UK: A Tory government. Then an INEVITABLE LONG OVERDUE pandemic Covid-19 strikes. BINGO for the One Percent‼️ RESULT❓ Feeding trough‼️
Tory Baroness Dido Harding married to Tory MP and ex minister put in in charge by chums, of Testing & Tracing, at an initial multi million cost. Projected £BILLIONS … 1/3 current of current NHS budget.
Of course a vaccine is needed, SO – Privileged Govt INSIDER data offered to Hedge funders AT a COST of £2000 per ticket to hear KATE BINGHAM married to yet another Tory MP give them a heads upon what Johnson and Dominic Cummings are planning to buy. Its akin to or is aiding and abetting INSIDER TRADERS in my judgement.
As if that is not enough snouts in troughs, KATE BINGHAM insisted on £167,000k per spin doctor expense totalling over half a million£££ to run spin re the impending vaccine!!! That is DESPITE the already VAST government waste of money in spin. How many times have you heard interviewers say “we asked for a response from the government but no one was available.”
A few years ago i tried to find out the total government spin budget. Others have tried FOI with no success. BRICK WALL.
Same re goings on at the BBC re detail in-house production and presentation of current affairs. The BBC is exempt from FOI request in FUNDAMENTAL areas.
BUT, back to point:
GRAVY TRAIN. Troughs. CRONYISM on STEROIDS. ZERO TENDERING. ZERO COMPETITION. Opposite of MYTHICAL bedrock of Capitalism.
That is what the WARMONGER W.M.D Tony BLAIR “worked night and day” with its LORD Peter Mandelson to bring about by “undermining” Jeremy at EVERY step. At every turn they brought this shameless scrounging of the public purse by the 1% for the 1%. You have never heard, and will NEVER hear SIR Keith Starmer mention ANY of the above. You will NEVER hear him raise a SINGLE question about SERCO, G4S, DELOITTE, ATOS now renamed, Kate Bingham, Dido Harding, Nicholas Soame’s brother who is the director of SERCO.
You did not hear him question the CARILLON scandal. You did not hear Sir Keith enquire wether the Grenfel victims nor Windrush victims of May’s “Hostile Environment” have been suitably cared for.
You will NEVER hear SIR Keith Starmer ask ANY SUSTAINED questions which expose the WAYS by which the One Percent plunder the public purse “and get away with it.”
Based on the pre Trump decades of back to back military invasions EVERYWHERE EVERY YEAR, and the constant assault on Jeremy and Trump, if Biden and Starmer are answers, then the questions were wrong.
In fact, so wrong, that they would have been best left unasked.
Unsurprisingly a quick search of Hansard tells a different story about Keir challenging Johnson
Really SH❓❓❓ Then please, would you be so kind as to provide any three instances of Starmer CLEARLY challenging Johnson on the SPECIFIC urgent concerns itemised above.
Thanking you in advance,
🌹🌹🌹
Good post. Regards
Absolutely excellent edited interview with Alexandria Ocasio Cortez re her views on the Biden win , read it and weep as you will see EXACTLY the same issues she is having with the Centrist shite in her party as we have had with the Blairite/Starmerite Shite in ours.
The parallels are telling and smacks of a well organised international dominance of all Parties to ensure lack of any real choice that Corbyn and Bernie Sanders offered the people.There is a real international need for a real proper Socialist Party to represent the working class and the DNC and Starmers Labour will never ever be it .
http://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/07/us/politics/aoc-biden-progressives.html
Hilary proved it could not be done by centrist Cockwombles
My dog would have beaten Trumpton
They wont last unless progressive and younger supporters are fully involved going forward
rob – “The parallels are telling and smacks of a well organised international dominance of all Parties to ensure lack of any real choice that Corbyn and Bernie Sanders offered the people.”
Rob, the parallels are stark indeed. I highlighted some of them before. Bernie pulled out TWICE‼️ Possibly a devoted papist of the old encyclicals.
Jeremy was firm until we rightly selected him as leader. NONE of the other contenders came remotely close in vision. We gave increased affirmation TWICE to Jeremy‼️‼️ Yet alas, the “so smart” AHolery dictum – ie Have Highest Honourableness and signal those virtues worldwide… but don’t upset the MSM, who are attacking you… or they will attack you…
Yes… the parallels are stark. And the attitude / culture is widespread even outside the left and outside party membership. An educated well meaning assertive friend of mine who follows current affairs on the BBC TV and such like, said that Bernie had to pull out or Hillary Clinton would have launched a campaign against him. Think of it. What sort resolve to transform the world, withdraws for fear of upsetting Hillary Clinton❓❓❓ … or for fear of being attacked by the mainstream media attacking you❓❓❓
But that is someone outside the party. My frustration is with “Left” “activist” within it.
What use action only until confrontation❓
What use capitulation to attacking dogs of the status quo when they are already attacking❓ What use surrender preceding suspension❓What use doing the same but expecting a different result❓ What use peerages to McNicol and Twatson❓
Ask Allan Howard. It is the AH’s area of throbbing expertise. The AH might enlighten us with a scholarly tome – “How to get the best from the MSM” by AH Allan Howard AHolery Cum Laude. Or, “Fastest Route to being the First UK Opposition Leader to be Suspended by a Traitorous Starmer He Promoted”.
Come on AH!!! Why the delay??? The world is waiting Howard. You could toss off your tomes in a jiffy. Give the WHOLE world a heads up on your future advice.
Saw his riposte to the BBC. Fell off the chair laughing!
By definition Centrists telling voters don’t worry we are Red Tories, stops people voting
Why should you when the same fuckers get in
Best case scenario in US of A is Biden pegs it quite quickly, Kamala takes over for 8 years before handing over to AOC
Nope, best case is Trunt found at room temperature with a rope around his neck and his dick in his hand.
Holding Cummings glove puppet in his other hand by his old school (Eton) tie
Kamala isn’t 77 and semi-senile, so that’s one up on that corrupt old decades-long insider, Joe Biden, but she is no Left Winger of any sort, whatever the MSM claim. She was selected as Biden’s running mate precisely because the Democrat Party bigwigs know she is a compliant ,safe , status-quo-supporting, pair of hands if Biden falls over or becomes non-functional. The mere fact that she is a woman and of mixed Indian and Black parentage is nice for image purposes for the Democrats – but no more relevant to the actual policies she would pursue than the fact that empty windbag , Barrack Obama, was Black and held out the bogus ‘Yes we can ! ‘ slogan to the US Black community . In fact under Obama the condition of the US Black community actually got far WORSE , as Obama packed out his cabinet with corrupt old Wall street white bankers and just continued ‘business as neoliberally usual’. As Kamala would if Biden cops it.
Too right Wolfie. Harris is dangerous. A black woman will be able to get away with bombing far more innocent people than an old white man.
i seem to recall that after George Bush’s disastrous invasions and bombings of millions in Iraq with Tony Blair as his stimulating suppository, two oil tankers were named after Condolizza Rice.
Rice appeared to be a woman, distinctly black, is very educated… a professor at Stanford i think or some Ivy League. Rice returned to academia after attempting to add intellectual ballast to the bombings…. like Fukuyama’s End of History tosh… he has since recanted on the said tosh.
ANYWAY Rice returned to her scholastic space as articulate and well rounded / “cultured” ie a satisfactory amateur concert pianist as before the slaughter and grief she supported in Iraq.
My point: The sooner the “Left” drops all the atomisation crap about colour / gender / nouveau genderS / every flaming subset, the better. Rice ticked many “woke” boxes.
Here is an eg. Pivotal CAUSES of poverty appear not buzzy enough for some. So they champion an atom. They base a campaign on “PERIOD POVERTY”.
QUESTIONS: Lets say we eradicate “Period Poverty”. Will that make a significant dent on the poverty of justice which the many poor face? That poverty of justice and deliberate criminalisation of the poor, then impacts on every aspect of life; job opportunities, housing, positive social integration, child care etc and the whole vicious cycle multiplies into life crushing infinite cycles.
CONVERSELY – Surely if we eradicate the state subsidising the wages of the “slaves” of tax exiles and other Tories, and INSIST BY LAW that they pay employees a proper supra living wage AND, fine heavily the likes of SERCO, and make all the directors & revolving door “you scratch my back…” auditors PERSONALLY liable for all wrongdoing – malfeasance, AND fine ALL the associated MPs, Lords & Ladies, civil servants, tsars and tsarinas for ANY involvement in any of the above examples of malfeasance, AND prosecute ALL MSM which have collaborated in anyway with the above…
Use the reclaimed loot to dig out the root causes of poverty and BURN THEM‼️‼️‼️ Then, THEN, not only will we eradicate much poverty INCLUDING “period poverty” but the 1% will stop “getting away with it”.
Bad Penny
Obama and Brown saved the world, dont you know
Kamala
Give her a chance, but dont hold your breath
She troubles me, greatly. Regards
And do we think AOC would be allowed to get in?
Love it! Beautiful economy of words conveying a big message. loud and clear (to be sure).
On election night holed up with Trump in the White Hose was Farage. Is it any coincidence that they both used the same tactics – priming their supporters and the public for violence if they didn’t get their way – in both cases to prevent democratic voting. Trump wanted to stop election vote counting and Farage wanted to prevent a confirmatory Brexit vote.
Two far right peas in a pod.
No Jack T ‘REmoaners’ similarity with Trump is refusing to accept the results of an election.
South Ayrshire Golf club owner loses 2020 presidential election
Donald Trump, a South Ayrshire golf club owner has lost the 2020 presidential election to Joe Biden, after running again to be re-elected for a second presidential term.
South Ayrshire Daily News
The title made it look as if the article would be sly funny and ironic – sadly the title was the best part of it.
I hate it when that happens.
Like “Pride and Prejudice and Zombies.”
First sentence, “UK centrists have tried to claim Joe Biden’s snail’s-pace election victory over Donald Trump is a vindication for their politics” ? UK centrists? What is a UK centrist? Who are these people? Please can someone explain what this means,
Here’s another statement I dont understand.
“But Biden himself punctured the UK centrists’ bubble in four words when the BBC tried to get a quick word from him as the president-elect passed”: ‘Punctured the UK centrists bubble’? How does “The BBC. I’m Irish” puncture Bubbles?
I dont know what Skwawkbox is trying to do here, linking Biden to some mystical group called ‘UK centrists, but my take on Biden’s retort to the BBC reporter is not the same as this article. In fact my initial reaction to seeing the clip was surprise at the public show of blatant dislike and disrespect Biden has for the BBC.. May be I am wrong here but I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that when Biden has in mind the ‘BBC’ he means the ‘UK’. “The BBC. I’m Irish”.
I’m no fan of the BBC but I felt insulted when I saw the clip. If this is typical of Joe Biden’s attitude to his country’s so called closest ally, then I don’t hold out much hope for good US/UK relationships over the next few years..
I could see your rationale, even though I disagreed with it until your last para.
1. We are NOT the USA’s closest ally. The closest ally of the USA is whoever it sees as serving its purpose at that moment in time. Admittedly, right wing politicians frequently follow the USA like a puppy dog (see: Afghanistan; see Iraq) whereas SOME from Labour have politely refused (see Wilson, Vietnam). To think of the relationship between the USA and Britain as anything other than an abusive one is naive.
2. Why do you feel “insulted?” The UK politicians play politics with the USA politicians. The BBC plays politics with everyone, including USA politicians. Farage plays USA politics with US politicians as well as with the BBC. Biden’s gripe is with the UK political class, which includes the BBC. He wasn’t insulting you or me, any more than when we refer to the USA we are referring to a Kentucky tractor driver, or an office worker in Chicago.
JoeRobson,
“The BBC. I’m Irish”. I cant explain it better than Biden’s off the cuff snap back.
To me it says, ‘no chance. I have no time for you. Why would I? I am not your friend’.
Israel is America’s only close ally. Biden, like so many daft Americans has a romantic view of the Irish.
We won’t be dealing with Biden, we’ll be dealing with the American security state and corporations.
So many (hopefully merely faux naive) questions from our permanently bemused right wing troll, MacKinnon ! No matter what useful information socialists have generously spoon-fed him for years now, he can never apparently grasp even the basics of what ‘capitalism’ is ! He can also never grasp what ‘neoliberalism’ is either. Now he just can’t understand what political status-quo-supporting cross-Party ‘Centrism’ is either ! The uncharitable , or just anyone here without the huge amounts of the time it would take to educate little ignorant Richard on a tutoring basis – surely just have to reply that, ‘it’s all there potentially at your computer internet fingertips to find out for yourself’.
Ah, yes JP, but at least buttplug understands that the BBC is a UK corporation, not an Irish one.
jpenney388,
You are absolutely right. I don’t know what ‘neoliberalism’ is. And I most certainly do not know what “political status-quo-supporting cross-Party ‘Centrism’ is. (And I dont want to.)
Thats the difference between you and me, I dont like labels. I like to explain myself. Spell it out, even at the risk of sounding boring. You on the other hand are the polar opposite, you have got labels for everything and everyone.
Take your reply (11.46) to my comment about Biden’s snap back to the BBC reporter. You dont mention it. Unlike JoeRobson (11.39) who tries to engage in a discussion of the matter. I would not be surprised if you didn’t even read my comment.
Seeing my name is enough for you to get on the key board. Like one of Povlov’s dogs, you see my name and your involuntary reflexes conjure labels, in your head.
Try this; the next time you see a comment in my name, read it, then read it again. Then if after you have thought about it and then you feel the need to comment on it, please go ahead, But remember, labels are not enough. You need to tell us what is in you are thinking. Its not enough to say . “Now he just can’t understand what political status-quo-supporting cross-Party ‘Centrism’ is either !” That is gobbledygook to mankind.
By the way, I do know what ‘Capitalism’ is. In fact I’m a bit of a expert on that subject.
Come now Richard, you know exactly what neoliberalism is, we’ve been living it for 45 years or so. It’s not a label, it’s a state of political fact that transcends party differences across the western hemisphere. Small government, light-touch regulations (particularly financial), low-taxes for global corporations who hold governments to ransom. State sell-offs and outsourcing, relaxed employment rights, limited legal aid, unions limited to wage negotiations, constant political interference in school syllabus, all higher education privatised, social security gradually replaced by charity, social liberal society except within
the criminal justice system, security services with very little oversight but ever rising budget, a free vote for everyone which has no political power and a free press and media dedicated to continuing the status quo.
Richard MacKinnon, the pompous , but dim, troll who really told us in one of his many stunningly historically ignorant posts on Left Futures that ‘Capitalism even existed in the Stone Age’ , really thinks he’s ‘ a bit of an expert on capitalism ‘ !
Richard, sorry, but The Flintstones cartoon is a satire on 1950’s American life, not a documentary on how things really worked in the Stone Age subsistence societies ! Easy mistake to make though ! Widen your reading , and you wouldn’t constantly be making a prat of yourself.
Richard MacKinnon, you need to know the context. Skwawkie is a Brextremist, therefore anyone, whether they be left or right, who wanted to remain in the EU is referred to abusively as a ‘centrist’.
Don’t take a well deserved sleight to the BBC as being an insult to Britain.
‘Ere jackanory? Howcome you haven’t threw your favourite ‘zionist’ accusation into the mix?
You not feeling too good, or summit?
Thanks for the reminder Toffee Troll, almost forgot.
Nothing will change in relatiom to US policy towards the racist State of Israel, Biden and Harris are both Zionists and will give the racist State anything it wants.
Anyone who refused to honour the result
Its a democracy thing
R U sure Jack T, that Skwawky is a Brexiteer?……….but then U think the BBC is 2 (about as much as Channel4)
Jack T,
Your first point; I accept it. I dont understand it but I will not argue it. I accept you understand the nuances of Sqwawkys politics better than I do. (Please, dont try, I am not interested).
With regards to your last sentence: maybe I’m splitting hairs here, who knows what Biden really meant when he slapped down the BBC reporter with his off the cuff remark.
I believe in witting and unwitting testimony. I believe in reading between the lines. If he had said ‘The BBC, no, I’m an RTE man’, then I can go along with you, that the sleight was directed at the BBC and only the BBC. But he did not say that. He said, we know what he said, I am not going to repeat it. I dont want to be accused of flaming the fire.
“What is a UK centrist?” It’s a shy Tory. It knows Tories are despicable but is too selfish to be a socialist so calls itself “centrist” in hopes of avoiding the steamroller.
If you felt insulted by Biden you really don’t want to hear what actual socialists think of your ilk.
More distance between countries governed by right wingers is good.
It’s funny how the only people who don’t know what a centrist is are centrists!
And as Tariq Ali warned us, they are the extreme centre.
https://www.versobooks.com/books/2641-the-extreme-centre
Old joe Biden’s a well known visitor to Ireland and actually has cousins there whom hes very friendly with.He has a good relationship with Varadeker and the other the other coalition gang.Like many Irish descent people from the US the British are not seen as friends to do a deal with….Uncle joes going to be a difficult person to please unless of course you give him a bung then hes anyones friend even the British…thats if he remembers hes had a bung?
Mckinnon.. Get back to your Orange lodge.
May be I am wrong here but I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that when Biden has in mind the ‘BBC’ he means the ‘UK’.
Another pearl of wisdom. With profound, meticulously considered reasoning of that calibre , you really ought to be leading the labour party…No, honestly!
.
The day BLM accept Obama was a Malteser will be the day it becomes crystal clear its not the colour of your skin, that is the problem, its where you live
Up here the Jordi tribe are predominantly white but equally shat on from a great height
Coppers call them SOS incidents Scum on Scum
There is more that unites us in the common cause to bring socialism and justice to our communities
I remember an interview with Eric Burdon, who said that he liked playing R & B because his dad was black. The interviewer pointed out that his dad was white skinned, but Eric replied that his dad was a miner, & was black most of the time!
Way to go Joe.
Trumps latest tantrum shows just how prescient the giant blimps of Trump in a nappy were.
“It was reported earlier today that Trump has reportedly refused to go to ‘phony President’ Joe Biden’s inauguration.”
what a directory of idiocity – incumbents serve corporations and pay of backers. red, blue, black or white makes no difference. here to serve.
Thank you for your service, all over the world.
Warmonger Biden self identifies himself as Irish, which is strange, because he usually identifies himself as being Israeli.
Given the alternative the best man won.
Not if you live in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Iran, Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua or many other countries who will be denied self determination more so under Biden than Trump.
lundiel, I can’t imagine anyone being worse than Trunt – can that really be what you meant?
“denied self-determination more so under Biden than Trunt.”
I don’t see that – Trunt did just try to replace Maduro with Guaido after all.
Biden’s history as vice president speaks for itself: the invasion and ruin of Libya, arming a proxy army of terrorists who support Al Qaeda to fight in Syria, prolonging the war and causing countless deaths. The propaganda campaign that saw Islamic fanatics labelled “moderate rebels”, the drone assassination campaign.
I completely agree about Venezuela but Trump has largely tried to avoid deaths in the ratio of hundreds of thousands abroad while leaving global organizations, rolling back on NATO and concentrating on economic nationalism. I’m sure this is not good if you are an American but I’m not and I think Biden and Harris are more dangerous than Trump globally.
Trump’s faults are legion, but, credit where it’s due, he did manage to be the first president since Jimmy Carter not to start a war. No wonder the establishment hated him!
If you want to carry on swimming against the tide on Trump then feel free. I can’t be bothered wasting my time arguing with Trumpians trying to justify their support for him.
I am not a “Trumpian”. I said he has many faults. I was just pointing out an inconvenient fact. Don’t worry, once Sleepy Joe is in the hotseat/bathchair it’ll be back to bombing as usual.
Look out Caracas, Tehran & Damascus!
lundiel08/11/2020 AT 3:19 PM,
Thanks for your reply.
I’m not trying to be arsy here, First I looked up ‘liberal’ and the definition is ‘willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one’s own ‘ .
So I can say, without question, ‘ I am a liberal’.
Next step: I knew that ‘neo’ meant ‘new’ but I looked it up anyway. And sure enough neo means new.
So then I looked up ‘neoliberalism’ and the definition is not what I expected. It was not, ‘new, and willing to respect………………..opinions different……’ The internet definition was similar to yours, albeit your definition is a bit more expansive. Here is the internet definition of ‘neoliberalism’.
“a political approach that favours free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.”
So you can see my confusion. It is part of the reason why I am not a fan of ‘labels’. They dont help, they lead to confusion.
But I am an old man and I have learnt to accept change, so I said to myself move on and take the new definition as the accepted truth. And so I looked at the new definition and thought;
‘free market capitalism’ good or bad? I thought what business is it of government to interfere in the market place? Price fixing? quotas? trade deals? Is that the business of government?
Next;
‘Deregulation’ is that a good thing or a bad thing? Do citizens want more regulations or less?
Then the big one.
‘Reduction in government spending’ Good or bad? There was no problem with this one. I instinctively dont like our government borrowing money that future generations will be liable for. I think it is immoral. It makes me feel ashamed. Our children and their children will have to pay back our debt before they feed, educate and provide health provisions for their children. That is wrong. There is no question with this last definition of ‘neoliberalism’. Reduction in government spending has to be the right thing to do, especially when we are already 2000 billion pounds in debt.
The question is; what are we doing, what is this Conservative government doing, when it borrows even more money?.
I can only come to the conclusion that, I am a neoliberal. The second unavoidable conclusion is this; that this Conservative government lead by Boris Johnson cannot call itself ‘neoliberal’.
I fear the worst.
You say you are ‘an old man’, MacKinnon. This is a huge surprise, and quite tragic, if true, because you always come across to everyone who reads your sad little pooterish posts , as an ignorant , but endlessly self-opinionated 5th form young Tory, and as someone who has based his very limited viewpoints entirely on duff information from the warped world view of the Institute of Economic Affairs , The Adam Smith Society, and The Daily Mail.
jlenney,
Im 67.. I’ve never heard of the Institute of Economic Affairs , The Adam Smith Society, and never read The Daily Mail. I’ve never voted Tory. So there you are. Sorry to spoil your day.
The meanings of those previously good words “liberal” and “freedom” were once clear – until the right wing hijacked them to mean “liberal” trade, employment, financial and environmental regulations and “freedom” of the rich to exploit whomever and whatever they please – to which end the 1% demand small government – a main plank of neoliberalism.
By small they mean weak and easy to bully or bribe, often at the same time.
The 1%’s “liberal” approach to taxation only extends as far as taxation of their own incomes is concerned – they love “fair” taxes like VAT that even the poorest pay.
Eventually they’ll demand the “freedom” to pay zero tax, to pay whatever wages they choose and to fire whomever they please whenever they please with no restrictions – and finally that governments disenfranchise “unproductives” – the vast hordes of unemployed created by themselves via AI/robotics “productivity gains” – another favourite word of treacherous dissemblers like you that can be made to seem self-evidently a “good.”
The 1% have always had the most important “freedoms” of all – access to the wealth that lets them hire the smartest lawyers and tax accountants to find loopholes in the law so they can legally hide the money they steal from us – and total ownership of the means of propaganda.
Without those advantages lying cheating cunts like you and your cunty mates are finished. The first job is to put journalists and media barons out of business and in jail.
Mckinnon youre an Orangeman…that makes you a bigot and a fascist.
richboys’dupe mackinnon:
“Reduction in government spending has to be the right thing to do, especially when we are already 2000 billion pounds in debt.”
To whom are “we” in debt, mackinnon? The Martians?
Or – to which nation or nations are all other nations’ National Debts owed? The net exporters?
No, none of the above, obviously – all nations’ creditors are the 1% – and the few percent below them who call themselves “investors” and “market traders” and all the other euphemisms for gamblers, moneylenders and usurers.
“What about the pension funds” you say? They’re no different to any other investor, demanding ever-greater profits whatever the climate and whoever is hurt in the process.
That the great-grandchildren of today’s poor should be born indebted to the great-grandchildren of today’s rich is anathema – it follows that all inheritance is unacceptable in principle.
That today’s rich should project their power from beyond the grave – constrain the decisions of governments yet unborn – can in no way, shape or form be defended.
Unfortunately for you the answer to the debt ‘problem’ is obvious – we learn from the capitalist world and turn problems into opportunities.
We tell the investors to whistle for ‘their’ money.
They’ll fight back of course so my heirs will be obliged, reluctantly of course, to turn yours into dogfood.
Problem solved.
Understand?
My impression is that the vast majority of this ‘debt’ is owed to the Bank of England and as we own the BofE we effectively owe ourselves money.
Winner winner chicken dinner. Apart, of course, from the money squirrelled away in tax havens, most of which are under our jurisdiction. Everything else returns from whence it came, nowhere once it is taxed out of existence. It may take a long time but even if it is turned into assets it is eventually turned back into nothing. Which of course, makes dear Richard’s assertions nonsense.
lundiel – You are of course entitled to your opinion but given your past performance I doubt many will take much notice.
SteveH gone mad again. “My opinion” was in agreement with and expanding on your own.
You’ve got some neck talking about my “past performance” Blair 2.0
lundiel – My apologies if that is the case, I thought you were referring to a different Richard (see my link below at 12:02).
SteveH,
There are three fundamental principles to banking. Security, Liquidity, and Yield.
They have to be placed in that order. Its basic stuff. Security first. No one is going to put money in a bank that is not secure. Liquidity: a bank has to have the funds in its vaults to pay investors on demand. Yield comes last. Yield is another name for profit as in dividends to share holders.
The banks that crashed in 08/09 put Yield before Liquidity. And we saw what happened. Big queues outside. No money inside.
So lets say for argument you are are right and the BofE is printing money and lending to the government, ( Alistair Darling called it ‘quantitative easing’). That seems to be what is happening with furlough, if so, it better have the reserves as in gold or Yen to ensure liquidity, if not, the rules of banking will guarantee, a banking crisis is coming our way.
richard – Thanks for the tutorial on how clever you think you are.
David – https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2020/10/01/when-the-question-who-is-going-to-pay-for-the-coronavirus-crisis-is-asked-the-answer-is-the-government-and-its-already-done-so/
Richard Murphy is always worth reading, unlike some other Dicks we know.
The Dick who imagines banks keep enough in their vaults to settle all possible demands for example.
You don’t need even my limited banking experience to know that no bank keeps that much cash on hand.
Admittedly my direct knowledge of banking was out of date even before October 1986 when everything else changed – but bollocks is still bollocks.
David McNiven09/11/2020 AT 11:23 AM
“Understand?” No. I dont understand. Not the whole comment. Here are the bits where I see what your are getting at..
“To whom are “we” in debt” Its a good question. Its hard to find any accurate sources. The International Monetary Fund? ‘who are they’ ? I dont know. But if I were to take a guess I reckon we are in debt thru the IMF mainly to China, India and the oil rich gulf states.
” We tell the investors to whistle for ‘their’ money.” That is called , in the real world, ‘to renege on debt repayment’. That has happened. There is evidence of what happens to nation states that are unable to service their debt. Argentina in the 80’s. Greece not so long ago. What happens? The government of that country is no longer in control of its own finances. That country lets call it UK2050 is no longer an independent state. Its finances are run by outside entities The reality of this would be, exports, such as pharmaceuticals they become unaffordable.
“Problem solved?” you say. Most definitely not..
richard – I’m sorry but we haven’t borrowed this money the BofE very kindly ‘printed’ it for the government.
Am I missing something? I don’t understand how this bursts Centrists bubble. As I understand it Biden is hinting that he will take the side of the EU over the UK. This is good for centrists – mostly remainers – like Keir. Its more a fuck you to the to the Tories and Brexiteers isnt it?
At least the ERG, in their own imitable style, are trying hard ‘to win friends and influence’.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/joe-biden-brexit-tories-ireland_uk_5fa95cc6c5b6f21920de4040
In an open letter “A backbench Tory MP has told Joe Biden that Brexiteers have a bigger mandate for leaving the EU than he does for his presidency.
Its a good line. For a Tory.
M – I may owe you an apology for doubting you yesterday but I can say with absolute certainty that I am not a Tory supporter. I have been a Labour Party member for many years and I have always voted Labour which is more than many contributors to these pages can claim.