Analysis comment

Video: Starmer says he’s AGAINST a new referendum for Scotland. Seems they’re only a good idea when there’s a Corbyn govt to prevent

Starmer’s speeches in 2018 and 2019 and his interview today suggest referendums are a bad idea if they aren’t a chance to prevent a Corbyn government

Labour leader Keir Starmer wants to deny the people of Scotland a new independence referendum if they give the SNP a majority in the Scottish Parliament – even though it was only January he said they should have a new independence referendum if they give the SNP a majority in the Scottish Parliament.

Apparently referendums are ‘divisive’.

The hypocrisy is even greater when set against Starmer’s insistence a year ago – and two years ago – that there must be a new EU referendum. In 2018, it wasn’t even Labour policy and hadn’t been approved by the Corbyn leadership – but old Sir Keir was so keen he promised not only a referendum on any Brexit deal, but that there had to be a ‘remain option’ as well:

The consequence of Starmer’s now-abandoned referendum enthusiasm was the loss of 52 Labour seats in leave-voting towns, handing Boris Johnson exactly the majority and agenda Starmer claimed to fear – compared to the huge ‘Corbyn surge‘ when Labour promised to honour the original referendum result in 2017.

Perhaps referendums are only a good idea when they represent a chance to prevent a Corbyn-led government – and now that’s no longer needed, they’ve suddenly become a bad thing and sod the wishes of the people of Scotland.

Even though Starmer would need to win them back, as well as the 52 leave-voting ex-Labour strongholds, to have any chance of forming a government.

But apparently it’s the Labour left that is more interested in protest and opposition than governing – although so far as Labour leader Starmer has shown little interest in opposing or protesting, either.

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    1. When the results for the upcoming NEC Elections are published I suspect we’ll see that more have joined than have left since the 2019GE

      1. If that turns out to be the case it’ll only confirm the truth of the old saying “Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the people.”
        It was said about the American people, but it’s a universal law.

      2. Oh, so you ‘suspect’, do you?

        You do quite a lot of that; but your ‘suspicions’ have a success rate closer to Clouseau’s, rather than Poirot’s, as can be confirmed by the vast majority of regulars on this site.

        So, if it’s NOT the case, will you do the off from the site and stop deliberately annoying and antagonising people?

        And if it IS the case that more people have joined – But on on lower scale than they did under Corbyn, will you continue to infest the site to foist upon us even more of your ‘suspicions’?

        I ‘suspect’ it’ll be the latter of the two outcomes.

      3. Toffee – I ‘suspect’ it’ll be the latter of the two outcomes.

        So are you now admitting that besides Starmer being way ahead of his predecessor in the polls he’s also attracted more members to the party.

      4. Way ahead of his predecessor’…Oh, dear Christ on a crystal meth binge; you’ve gone and shot your wad before you’ve even got hard this time, haven’t you?

        (There’s yet another one getting bookmarked to remind the site of your hubris, at my leisure. You’ve been informed)

        Don’t flatter yourself, and don’t ever second guess me. Far from stammer being anywhere near ‘Way ahead of his predecessor’ (Everybody else can stop laughing at the poor, deluded gobshite’s ‘suspicions’) I’m suggesting you’ll continue to haunt the site and deliberately antagonise people while spewing your usual pro-stammer, tory-in-all-but-name, bullshit.

        Got that?

        Good, now, off you pop and clean yourself up and don’t forget to wash your hands before retunng to your keyboard, you filthy animal.


      5. Toffee – What I actually said was “So are you now admitting that besides Starmer being way ahead of his predecessor in the polls he’s also attracted more members to the party.”

        You can manufacture all the faux self righteous indignation you want but it doesn’t alter the fact that Keir is already way, way ahead of Jeremy’s best ever polling results when he was leader.

      6. Once again, your M.O.’s the same tired arld shitty one. When you think you perceive something to be pro-stammer, you’re all over it, DEMANDING we believe you, before anything’s public knowledge.

        Invariably you’re wrong.

        And when it’s something like the antisemitism report, stammer’s funding, or stammer telling teachers he’d have to look at making classrooms safe before they go back to work, you’re the ONLY one begging we hold our piece and waiting to see what gives.

        And we’re invariably correct with our ‘suspicions’ about the easter island-headed slimeball – Who, let’s not forget, only got 56.2% against TWO candidates, while Corbyn got 59.5% against THREE and 61% against ice cream kid in an election with a bigger turnout than what stammer received.

        THERE’S how much more popular Corbyn was than stammer EVER will be, bellend.

        So the challenge is still open. We get skwawky to have a poll to see if stammer’s a genuine real mccoy opposition leader, or merely a toerag enabling slimeball who throughout his career both in law and in politics, has consistently wiped the toerags’ arses for them.

        If people think he’s legit – I go.

        if they think he’s as toerag as the rest of them – You do.

        Put up or fuck off.

      7. Toffee – Whether you go or stay is of little consequence to me. You on the other hand appear to be quite rattled by my presence. As for your ridiculous challenges, I’ll be quite content with being able to say ‘I told you so’ when the membership figures are published. If my mere presence on here disturbs you then it gives me all the reason I need to stay.

        ps: Isn’t it you that is always reminding us that we shouldn’t put too much store in the opinions of party members when it is what the actual voters think that really matters.

      8. Far from being ‘rattled by your presence’ – thereby further proving your own hubris and delusions of self grandeur – I’m fucking irate that a duplicitous slimy fucker like yourself continues to pontificate to the rest of us despite having your hypocrisy and abject shithousery spelled out for you by just about every other poster at one time or another.

        You whine and whinge about everyone’s use of statistics yet you do nothing BUT post links to opinion polls and present the as factual evidence when they’re no such fucking thing.

        You perpetually complain that people are ‘prejudiced’ against stammer but you weasel out of it when their ‘suspicions’ are proved correct – as they have been without exception.

        Oh, and you’ve now confessed that the reason you’re on here is to get a rise out of me – if that ISN’T trolling I don’t know what is.

        Skwawky, is openly admitting to being a troll not a banning offence? It should be.

        Still, at least I’m content in the knowledge that I’m not a little yellow hypocritical shithouse.

        So toerag boy, what’s your excuse for cheerleading the toerag that openly brags about his support for the toerags; and how does it validate you labelling anyone else as a tory boy WITHOUT making yourself look the utter cunt you are?

        Answer that, and prove me wrong…But being the shithouse you are, you won’t even attempt to. Yet you’ll have an amlighty whinge at others and chase them up relentlessly when they fuck your questions off.

      9. Toffee – Why should I waste my time when just a few words replying to your nonsense attacks on me prompts such long and revealing responses from yourself. As for trolling, it was you that responded to my very succinct original comment with a diatribe of meaningless drivel. I’m going to look forward to saying ‘I told you so’.

      10. Amd another matter gobshite…

        In April ’20 there were 552835 party members.

        Between May 2015 and January 2016 the party membership increased by 187,000+ (201,293 – 388,407 respectively)

        If stammer is to be ‘Way ahead of Corbyn’ like you risibly claim, there’ll be something in the region of 700,000 members when your numbers come out.

        Still think he’s THAT popular, dickhead? Yep….Let’s wait and see, eh?


      11. Toffee – What was the membership numbers immediately before the 2019GE?

      12. Make that 730,000+ members…

        ….So please DO keep on crowing, knobhead. I can’t wait to see just how far short the slimy one falls.

        730k members, or you’ll have been hanged by your own shoelaces YET AGAIN you, massive divvy.

      13. Toffee – Don’t be silly. A considerable number of the CLPs who supported Corbyn in previous leadership elections nominated Keir Starmer this time round, including Corbyn’s very own CLP. Similarly a large number of those members who voted for Corbyn in the previous 2 elections (including myself) switched their allegiance to Starmer in 2020.

        It is worth noting that during the 2020 leadership campaign there was an opinion poll of Labour members which asked ‘Who would you vote for if JC was on the ballot paper along with RLB, LN & KS?’ The results were both revealing and startling.
        RLB lost nearly all her support to JC who only managed to attract about 30% of the vote (about the same as RLB managed to scrape in the actual election) and Keir still won with an overall majority in the first voting round.

      14. Nothing ‘silly’ about it knobhead.

        It’s YOU claiming stammer’s more popular than Corbyn.

        The numbers speak for themselves. Unless stammer can shoehorn another 180k+ members in by the end of October/Beginning of november then he’s NOT as popluar as Corbyn.

        What is it with you that you don’t understand that 59.5% against THREE candidates is far better and makes him far more popular than stammer’s 56.2% against just TWO candidates.

        As for the electorate, despite you handing the toerags an 80 seat majority, stammer can have a 95% lead over de piffle and it wouldn’t matter. That’s on YOUR TOES.

        But instead of actually OPPOSING the toerags and getting a lead far bigger than it’ll turn out he actually has – IF he has one at all (Against THE shittest governement the entire planet’s EVER witnessed) stamme has done fuck all but SUPPORT them.

        And YOU support stammer. Ergo YOU are the tory, you horridable cunt.

        730,000+ no ifs, no buts, and no equivocation. Stammer doesn’t achieve that, and you’re (still) a deluded
        tory fuckwit.

      15. Toffee – Your grasp of simple maths is as good as your grasp of politics.

      16. Yeah, alright brainsets test that shall we?

        16million is far more than 17million.

        52% is far less than 48%

        And 59.5% against THREE candidates is LESS than 56.2 against TWO, isn’t it moron?

        Too fucking easy.

      17. Toffee – Is there a reason that you want to distract attention away from your f’wit nonsense about the membership numbers.
        Whilst I agree with your first two point on the narrow point that they are factually correct your point about the leadership election results is nonsense they were 3 entirely different elections and non of the candidates from the first 2 elections were in the 3rd so they are not directly comparable in the way you claim. It is undeniable that Starmer won the election conclusively. (and according to the polling JC would have lost against Starmer if he’d been on the ballot paper).

  1. Starmer is a two faced clampit. There is not a pitchfork in hell sharp enough for him.

  2. Be funny if a English independence party was formed by Corbyn and it did to Labour in England what the SNP did to Labour in Scotland

  3. Don’t forget it was McDonnell who gave STARMER the position as Brexit negotiator and also supported him in the PV and 2nd Referendum.

    1. David – So in your opinion Jeremy had nothing to do with the appointment of a Keir to his shadow cabinet then. Don’t be so ridiculous.

      1. Yeah, let’s all ignore the fact that Jeremy’s choice was limited by there being hardly any genuine Labour MPs in the syphilitic PLP because of the diseased Blair – too few to fill all the shadow positions – shall we?

        Let’s also forget the lying, the cheating, the collaboration with foreign spies, the collaboration with the MSM and even with the Tories – let’s forget the determined undermining of Corbyn by the right wing PLP including Starmer shall we – and now let’s all give the collaborator Quisling-in-Chief the support he criminally denied Corbyn?
        Because it’s the honourable thing to do? Because whatever Starmer is he’s better than a Tory?
        The fuck he is – he’s worse than any Tory because he pretends to be on our side.
        That’s why they hang spies, collaborators and Quislings in wartime but don’t hang soldiers.

  4. I came across the following article in the Independent yesterday by chance, from April 14th last year. Here’s the headline and the first part of the article, which are self explanatory:

    Jeremy Corbyn voiced concern of antisemitism evidence in Labour being ‘mislaid or ignored’

    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has expressed concern that evidence of antisemitism in the party’s ranks may have been “mislaid” or “ignored”.

    The remarks were leaked from a private conversation between Mr Corbyn and the senior Labour MP Dame Margaret Hodge, who has been a vocal critic of the party’s approach to allegations of antisemitism.

    The discussion was held in February, as Mr Corbyn outlined his intention to appoint former cabinet minister Lord Falconer to review the party’s complaints process.


    I remember reading about Hodge secretly recording a conversation she had with Jeremy, but I certainly didn’t come across the bit about A/S evidence being ‘mislaid or ignored’ etc. And I think we can safely assume that it wasn’t just immediately prior to the conversation with Hodge that such concerns had arisen, and as we learnt from the leaked report, the leader’s office had been hassling staff at LP HQ to get a move on with cases of alleged A/S and bring them to a conclusion the year before, although THAT of course is different to ‘evidence’ having been ‘mislaid or ignored’.

    Jeremy says ‘mislaid’, but he was probably referring to the batch of documents that were stolen by one or more staff members just prior to their leaving (as reported by skwawkbox). Anyway, it got me to thinking WHY ‘they’ only started putting what was to be later described as the ‘leaked report’ together AFTER the 2019 GE, and then the obvious occured to me: They – ‘they’ presumably being Jeremy and Jennie and a few other trusted members of his inner circle – realised that the MSM et al would rubbish and spin the contents of any such report against them – and Jeremy in particular of course – and that it was better to wait until AFTER a GE before digging up whatever evidence they could of foul play, so to speak, etc. And the point is that KNOWING that the MSM et al would cover the report in such a way as to reflect badly on Jeremy – as the media DID of course – the reason they went to all that trouble and spent so much time putting the 860 pages worth of material together was SOLEY for the ‘ears’ of the left – ie because they knew that the left would get to hear about the report through outlets such as skwawkbox and The Canary and JVL etc, who would of course cover the report and the contents in an ‘unspun’ format, for want of a better way of describing it.

  5. Better Together and 2nd referendum
    How did that go
    Living in Northumbria we will be joining Scotland if there is No Deal
    Ireland will be reunited and Wales will also leave the union
    What’s not to like

    1. Nationalism is the usual cause of wars & division. We live in the British Isles; all the so-called nations or countries are artificial constructs of the bourgeoisie who want to be big fish in smaller pools. My dad’s family are Irish; my mother’s Welsh & I was born in England. Nationalism is a weapon of the ‘right’; Socialism can & should unite us all in one common goal.

      1. Steve
        It will
        But first small matter of cleaning out the stables

  6. Career ‘What’s in it for me?’ Stammer.

    I notice he’s back doing the rounds in Tv studios, immediately after swerving the brexit debate in the commons…And eager to tell us all how much he ‘supports’ the government at every given opportunity.

    Not so eager to tell us all how much he opposes brexit these days, is he? Can’t think why, like. I mean, it’s not like he’s gonna be able to further wangle his way into a position to have the authority to change anything, is he? (Probably because nothing WOULD change if that gawp was PM anyway)

    Nope, he has to rely on the electorate in order to go any further, and they’ve seen enough of the slimy reptile and his ten promises that took just five months to renege upon. I’m afraid 56.2% of 490k labour party members isn’t anywhere near enough to make him PM, just like the precious 70% wasn’t anywheres near enough to win the last election.

    And no matter HOW shite the toerags will continue to be, no matter WHO their leader is in future and how incompetent THEY will surely be, stammer will continue to support them.

    And members will paradoxically continue to support stammer while wanting him gone.

    ‘Stay and fight’ they ask…‘Join, and change from within’ they plead…It’s like listening a load of stepford wives ffs.

    1. “And members will paradoxically continue to support stammer while wanting him gone.”
      Well, that’s only fair, since he continues to support the Tories while wanting them gone.
      I take it he has said he wants them gone?
      The scary thing is he apparently doesn’t even notice the paradox.

  7. SteveH, you’ve had to change your justification for voting for Starmer from “best of a bad lot” when you voted for him, to “more popular with voters than Corbyn” today to defend your choice.
    Popularity is necessary in politics, but the kind of supporters one attracts also matters.
    Nobody was forced to vote for any of those three obviously deficient candidates – LOUDLY withholding one’s vote was the honourable option.
    Labour’s new leadership now seeks to appeal to the lowest of human instincts and the last refuge of scoundrels – patriotism.
    Any Labour members not utterly ashamed of that are unfit to call themselves anything but Tories.
    Nice company you’re keeping, SteveH.

    1. David – On the contrary, Keir’s popularity with the electorate is just another indicator that I made the right choice. It’s quite a novel situation for the party to have a leader who is polling positive rather than negative approval ratings.

      Whether you like it or not with only 2 major parties and FPTP the only way that Labour can win the power to implement our progressive policies is to appeal to a wider cross-section of the electorate. Who are these undesirable new voters who you claim are being attracted to the party and what evidence do you have to support your assertions.

      What did you and the the small minority who ‘loudly abstained’ actually achieve. Did anyone, apart from yourselves, actually notice your ‘dramatic’ non vote protest?

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