Labour MP Dawn Butler reports emails to police after putting pundit Iain Dale in his place
Labour’s Dawn Butler faced down pundit and former Tory candidate Iain Dale on live television, after Dale called her a disgrace for daring to point out that Boris Johnson had told her constituents they had to go back to work on Monday during his televised broadcast on Sunday night.
Butler was right and Dale was wrong – Johnson had said that anyone who can’t work from home needed to go to work. But that didn’t stop Dale from haranguing Ms Butler for not using Keir Starmer’s ‘now is not the time to be too critical’ approach to Johnson’s reckless endangerment of her constituents.
Butler held firm and put Dale firmly in his place. But the exchange was the second time in less than ten days that a white male Tory has told a BAME woman MP to be more like her white male boss after she called out the effects of the government’s actions and negligence in language he didn’t like:
MP and emergency doctor Rosena Allin-Khan faced similar arrogance and condescension from Health Secretary Matt Hancock for daring to suggest that the government’s persistent failure to provide personal protective equipment (PPE) had cost NHS lives and brought grief to bereaved families.
Dale was still moaning after the broadcast finished – but Butler pointed out that he was still wrong:
She appears to have received considerable abuse – almost certainly from other right-wing males – for calling out Johnson and standing up to Dale. She tweeted later on Wednesday that she had been forced to report threatening and racist emails and online comments to the police:
The spectacle of right-wing men telling women of colour to mind their language or tone is a distasteful one at the best of times. But when those women are speaking up for those whose lives have been lost because of Tory arrogance and recklessness, it is uglier still. Solidarity with both of them.
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Iain Dale is a smug and arrogant TV pundit, who plays the ‘ I’m offended ‘ card during TV
debates. But whose credibility was lost recently, when,on the losing end of an argument, dramatically walked off set.
Slap-headed gammon-faced self-important little eunuch.
Hancock’ll be just like him when he grows up.
One word to describe dale
Ponce.
This is not a race issue! My family are of mixed race heritage & I find terms such as gammon or choc ice equally offensive. Iain Dale is an arrogant Murdoch puppet & Dawn Butler is absolutely right, but it’s a bit rich to complain that his criticism of her is racist because he is male; stale & pale.. There appears to be a competition to find who can shine their ‘Liberal Badge’ the brightest as their ‘liberal’ beliefs fall out of the Guardian centre pages.
‘See me; see my colour”, is equally offensive to someone from mixed race heritage. Why isn’t female; stale & pale Jess Phillips ever criticised for her offensive ‘tone’, but accusations of using dangerous & inflammatory language is often used by the bourgeoisie to silence criticism.
I have had reservations about Dawn Butler because she is inclined to play the gender/race card, but now she has been rejected by Starmer & a tarnished ‘Corbynista’, we just might get her to “Get up! Stand Up!” on her own two feet.
“Gammon” (as I understand the term) is nothing to do with racism – it describes red-faced old right wingers ranting about how the country’s going down the drain – generally because of immigration, the EU, the Marxist Corbynistas, homosexuals, the young and everyone else who isn’t just like them.
Ready to be corrected though – if I’m wrong and there’s an agreed definition you can point to you’ll have my sincere apology.
Them maybe somebody could define some other newly-coined terms accurately for me.
“Snowflake” is one I’m unsure about.
Then, not Them. Text is a bit small for my gammony old eyes.
So ‘chocolate drop’ merely describes brown faced people, right?
Can’t pick and choose on racist descriptions. Politically correct rules, if you accept one you have to accept all.
Yes, I understand it to mean similar – right wing males who get so worked up their face turns a gammonish shade. It’s nothing to do with race at all.
You could try asking Google.
I believe that any term is insulting if it was meant as an insult. Any comparison to a ‘pig’ (a dirty animal) is insulting in many cultures & the referencing of ‘gammon’ has similar connotations as pork or pig meat. Now it appears that ‘Guardian’ readers have a problem with anyone over the age of 30, who is white, male & voted Brexit; especially @ the BBC. & Channel 4 The term is not only racist, but ageist & demeaning to the white lower classes, aka the plebs or the deplorables.
Hatred of the white lower/working class is nothing new, as the bourgeois MSM happily ridicule white van man or anybody who didn’t attend university are assumed to be stupid, poorly educated, without culture & unable to vote the right way. Issues of representation are seldom addressed in terms of social class, only race & gender issues are acceptable in schools & universities. Now, if you voted Brexit you are a racist by bourgeois definition………this happens constantly, especially in so-called left wing political meetings, where smug, privileged ‘snowflakes’ shine their ‘liberal’ badges & point the accusing finger of shame @ anyone who dared vote Brexit or dares criticise immigration. Keir Starmer is a classic example of a smug bourgeois privileged male with nothing but contempt for the downtrodden who didn’t vote the way he wanted. I am not surprised that he won the leadership election by a landslide, but I wonder if the working class will ever forgive New New Labour?
Steve, you damage your case somewhat by suggesting that in anyway shape or form, the right wing BBC were against Brexit. Farage was wall to wall on the BBC as were any outspoken supporters of Brexit. Even the right wing QT audience producer was criticised for encouraging the right wing ‘Britain First’ types to take up places in the audience. I know you were a passionate Brexit supporter but don’t overdo it by crediting the BBC with being even fractionally to the left.
Steve, I would say that it is more than a race issue, it is fundamentally a class issue: manual workers been forced to go to work because they cannot work from home, while the middle classes are able to work from home and so able to remain in self-isolation and better protect themselves and their families.
However, their is an intersectionality of a race element here, we see it in the disproportioned number of BAMEs that have died from Covid-19 among the NHS staff and carers for example. Their was nothing wrong with but RAK and DB said but a white male Tory decided to pull them down on their tone, rather than to engage with them politically, I call it an example of racism.
That isn’t to say that it is right to call people a gammon either, that their isn’t an element of disdain, of class superiority as often the term is used to describe white working class men and it is used by the middle classes to put them down.
Maria, I suppose this thread proves that internet slang words can mean different things to different people.
Being an old retired manual worker myself, I see gammons as old, red-faced, angry, stupid, right wing-to-far right, loud-mouthed, Corbyn-hating Tory-lovers.
Whether they’re working class like me or middle class, gammons have right wing attitudes and I’ll be as offensive to them as I please, online or in person.
Hola Maria,
you call Iain Dale’s comment racist because he is a white male or because he was wrong? I sometimes listen to Iain Dale on LBC when I need to wind myself up off the couch! He is many things & he is racist, but not on this occasion.We don’t know why more BAME people are susceptible to Covid 19, nor why, if you are an obese male, you are also more vulnerable. There is a lot we don’t know about Corona Virus, but accusations of race hate without evidence will muddy the water.
Hi Steve
I find Iain Dale’s comment racist because instead of engaging with Dawn Butler on political terms, he decided that since he couldn’t engage with her politically he decided to use his white male superiority and instead engaged with her tone in an attempt to show her “her place”.
We have all heard of Dawn being told on her first days in Westminster that the lifts couldn’t be used by the cleaners, as if the only jobs black women could have in Parliament are cleaning jobs. I am afraid racism exist and we also see reverse racism from black middle classes towards the white working classes, in my opinion race and gender intersect with class, but class is the main issue when it comes to inequality.
Both race and gender are used to divide and rule by the establishment and they make sure that the white working class is a little bit better off than working class blacks. But the middle class blacks are better off that the white working class, but this is presented by the establishment as blacks abusing the system. The black working class feels disconnected from the white working class as a result.
The same thing with gender is the middle class women that have benefited from the gender equality agenda at the expense of working class men and women.
There’s far too much online about defining a social media terms for people we don’t like or agree with. Why don’t we just say Ian Dale is a far-right fascist and have done with it!
It is alright with me as far-right fascist are racist. They subscribe to a racial supremacy ideology never mind if they are blacks or whites or any other racial complexion.
Steve Bannon is a white supremacist in the same way that Idi Amin was a black supremacist. Idi Amin had not problems in ordering the expulsion of Asian workers from Uganda because they weren’t black.
Narendra Modi has not problems in attacking Muslims that incidentally almost always darker in complexion that high caste Hindus, the Hindu cast system been based primarily in the colour of your skin.
Franco took delight in demonising Jews and Gipsies, so the racial element is part an parcel of a fascism.
I am so sorry Dawn has had to contend with abuse but am very glad that she has has reported the abuse to the police.
I have long advocated that everyone who receives this type of abuse should do so. Instead we have had people making complaints of abusive behaviour – most of which concerned sexually inappropriate and racist behaviour including antisemetic behaviour – to the party when many of the actions complained of relate to criminal behaviour and fall within the remit of the police.
I believe our complaints process should be reviewed and we should require complainants to refer criminal matters to the police in the first instance and only after the criminal investigation of the allegations has concluded should we look at them under our procedures.
This would protect the rights of both the accuser and the accused and would probably deter people from being abusive or making malicious complaints of abuse given that they could leave themselves open to criminal charges either way.
Our party leader’s background is in law so surely he must see the deficiencies in our current procedures and will take steps to ensure that accusations of criminal behaviour are dealt with appropriately by the police.
Smartboy – You are living up to your name today, an excellent post.
Thanks Steve H
And Smart boy, the reason that the LP will never do that is because it will inhibit their intention to get rid of anti-Zionists, because as we know it is perfectly acceptable within the law to be against Zionism, which in effect is racism.
Jack – Whilst I understand you making this point there would actually be no need to refer these non criminal cases to the police. It is also well established principle that even if an accused person is found not guilty in the criminal courts it doesn’t stop them being pursued in either the civil courts or by bodies such as the police disciplinary procedures. I see no reason why these same principles shouldn’t also apply to the Labour Party’s disciplinary procedures. We all sign up to being subject to these procedures every time we renew our memberships.
SteveH you may recall, some members have been accused of anti-Semitism simply because they have been critical of Zionism. It is these cases to which I referred.
Jack – Fair enough, it is also worth noting that the majority of these individuals have been expelled with contravening the Labour Party’s catch all equivalent of the military law of acting ‘Contrary to Good Order and Military Discipline. They haven’t been found guilty of anti-Semitism.
This sad state of affairs appears to have continued regardless of who was in post as General Secretary.
Smartboy, many of us have long argued for more rational and morally justifiable procedures – I’d only question one word of your comment.
I’d replace “will” with “is duty bound to.”
I don’t see him ever doing the right thing just because it’s the right thing, frankly.
Once he’s convinced that there’s profit in holding the high ground though, I’m sure he’ll be able to fake moral commitment as well as any Tory.
I cannot understand why anyone would want to insult anyone using racist terms…….perhaps David McNiven could shed some light?
Steve Richards, I’ll happily shed light on anything I’VE written – EVER, ANYWHERE – that you allege to be racist, if I was indeed the intended target of your timid little attempt at libel.
I can’t shed any further light on anyone else’s motivations beyond the obvious – that racists speak like racists because they’re imbeciles.
Little hint for you on the use of allusion – to be effective there has to be at least some teensy little reference to whatever the fuck it is you’re too timid to write down.
I take your point David McNiven
Whatever happened to liz Kendall’s assistant Bex Bailey?
I guess her handlers realised that you can only get so much mileage out of someone’s accusations when they refuse to make an official complaint.
Steve Richards – ps: Also what happened to the young woman who bizarrely appeared on TV dressed as a schoolgirl to accuse an elderly Labour MP of inappropriate sexual conduct.
I would include allegations of subverting the result of a General Election, as it the alleged operation cupcake if enacted appears to have done. Why Starmer hasn’t refer this matter to the Electoral Commission for investigation? We are talking potential criminal matters here.
Maria – I would have thought that was now logically the responsibility of the investigatory panel that has been appointed by the NEC. The leadership of the party is not responsible for discipline and HR issues regarding either members or employees, that’s the responsibility of the NEC and/or the Unions who appointed the NEC members who were named in the leaked dossier.
Nadine Dorries and two other cheap and nasties already caught spreading fake news about Keir and grooming gangs
When you have the MSM and toilet papers in your pocket and shed loads of money for propaganda on social media what do you really expect
Your a fucking anti semite and a racist
I’m sorry you feel that way
Is all you need to know about why we are not in the game
Change the language, frame the story on our terms and attack attack attack
Are you another Tory racist, why are you telling me to shut up,
Your defence is Uncle Festa isnt Dr Evil you think he’s more Dr Bob, a complete muppet
Sorry Ian old chap but his history of lying through his back teeth makes him a complete charlatan which means your in no position to defend him
Unless your a complete Cockwomble as well, are you part of this cheap and nasty Tory party Eton mess
Or give us a break you pompous posh pratt
Get into them and fuck them up
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-delete-tweets-sharing-22026488
A Tory health minister has deleted a tweet in which she shared a doctored video a far-right conspiracy theory about Labour leader Keir Starmer.
Nadine Dorries shared a clip from an anonymous Twitter account which featured a heavily edited video of Mr Starmer during his time as the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP).
It was also shared, and deleted, by two other Conservative MPs, Lucy Allan and Maria Caufield.
The question remains……when an old white male makes critical comment to a black woman, it is racist. ‘Classic ‘Snowflake’.
fao David McNiven,
“Slap-headed gammon faced”……….you must be so proud wordsmith. The Guardian now uses this terminology as an insult to the elderly white working classes. Tell me why would anybody use such language; what relevance does the pigmentation of a person’s face make to any debate unless you are a racist?
I didn’t coin those words – The Telegraph attributes first use of ‘gammon’ to Matt Zarb-Cousin.
The colour of their faces is from an excess of beer and beef, not from birth.
The Urban Dictionary describes them as:
“A particular type of Brexit-voting, middle-aged white male, whose meat-faced complexion suggests they are perilously close to a stroke. The unhealthy pink skin tone of such stout yeomen is probably because of high blood pressure caused by decades of ‘PC gone mad’, being defeated in arguments about the non-existent merits of Brexit and women getting the vote.”
Much sought after by the BBC for the Question Time audience they’ll believe anything bad about Jeremy Corbyn and anything good about BloJob dePiffle and recite it en chanson to order.
Incapable of answering the simplest question on their belief system, garble unintelligibly off-script.
Have you never seen Nigel Farage?
fao David McNiven,
You quote the Daily Telegraph & I’ll quote Bob Marley, “until the colour of a man’s skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes…….”
Thinking & judging people in crass generalisations says a lot about you. When you judge people by the colour of their skin, regardless of whether that is black; white or pink…………that only demonstrates hypocrisy. The gammon insult has been around for many more years than that, but the London centric petty bourgeoisie now use it to describe anyone who voted Brexit? Keep shining the badge……..you may think you are special, morally superior & a class above people, but I suggest you look in the mirror & then adjust the colour balance on your television.
One last time – COMPLEXION is DIFFERENT to COLOUR.
M’kay?
The knight led Labour party is hobbled by the keir virus…How can anyone take the Labour party seriously when its led by a establishment knight of the realm.whos record for sculldugery is only surpassed by his PM and fellow public schoolboy Piffel Johnson.ITs embarrassing every time he stands up in parliament Sir keir strimmer……God save the Queen??
Joseph – Why do you continue to turn out this nonsense.
You could more legitimately claim that Jeremy was a ‘public school boy’, he attended a fee paying prep school. Keir as you well know was already attending his Grant Maintained (state funded) Grammar School when it went private because of government diktat. The then government put transitional procedures in place to ensure that all current pupils (incl. Keir) had their school fees paid by the state whilst they continued their education at the school.
I find your continuing repetition of the above rather perverse because you already know full well that you are distorting the truth. I have already provided you with proof of the above via links and direct quotes from Hansard. Why you continue to devalue your arguments by distorting the truth is a mystery.
You might be ok in your far eastern bolthole but there are many here in the UK who aren’t as fortunate as yourself and are desperate for a relief from Tory rule. Why would someone like yourself a member of the Labour party spend so much time and effort undermining the electoral chances of his own party with nonsense. Why do you seek to deny those who are less fortunate than yourself the opportunity of a Labour government You really should re-examine your priorities in life and stop being so bloody selfish.
Embarrassingly, it took me a while to see that Blair was a Thatcherite – I never could stand the grinning vagina but it was only when I noticed the media feeling him up that I understood he was the fall-back position for neoliberalism. In my defence I was busy with other stuff at the time.
Blair was also a golden opportunity for a lot of overprivileged toffs, trendies, journalists and Hoorays to disown the now-hated Tories with “I think a Labour government might ectually be quayte a good idea, OK? Yah?” as they gargled Bolly in Annabel’s or wherever.
The easy ride Snotty’s getting from the MSM looks like the same pattern.
I’d call it déjà vu but it probably doesn’t count when you expected it.