Privatised 111 system’s errors, along with other government decisions, are dangerous – and predominance of fatalities means it is harming BAME people and the poor disproportionately. Labour leader’s failure to call government to account will lead to more deaths
Kier Starmer’s links to private health are putting people in poverty and those from ethnic minorities in disproportionate danger in the coronavirus crisis. The Labour leader has employed a number of aides from a private health background – and he has failed to go in hard on Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock over the negative effects of their eagerness to push NHS services and provision out to private providers and on the Tories’ incompetence and ideologically-driven decisions.
The privatised NHS 111 service, for example, has been widely criticised its use of untrained operatives following scripts and for its lack of capacity, which families have complained have caused deaths. And because the virus is more deadly to BAME (black, Asian and minority ethnic) people, they will be at far greater risk of suffering fatal consequences because of the system’s shortcomings.
The Office for National Statistics has confirmed its findings that the coronavirus kills people in poverty well over twice the rate of wealthy sufferers:
And people from from ethnic minorities worst of all: almost double the death-rate for black women and more than four times for black men:
The impact of the Tories’ policies and ideologically-driven decisions on people from ethnic minority backgrounds is not limited to deaths linked to the 111 service, as a glance at any image showing the front-line NHS staff killed by the virus will show:
More than 200 NHS staff have now died of COVID-19.
But Keir Starmer has said ‘now is not the time’ for too much criticism of the government’s performance and decisions – and he has been silent on the vast problems with the 111 service and their consequential effects.
Those who feared the consequences of his appointments of aides from private health will find it hard not to link the two phenomena – including many Labour insiders. One put it in stark terms to the SKWAWKBOX:
Every time Keir or his advisers push the ‘not the time’ line, he enables the government to keep doing what it’s doing and more black or poor – and often both – people are dying.
He needs to put the health of the poor ahead of the egos of his staff and the interests of the private health sector. We are failing the people and it is costing lives.
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The following details are not in the least surprising. They could have been deduced and we know some of the hostility was and remains overt. What is a surprise was the response of Jeremy and his team.
The idea that many like me should not feel intensely sad, puzzled, heartbroken, incredulous, tearful at times, angry at others… sometimes both at once… that idea is for the birds. NOTHING positive is achieved by burying truths. Mistakes are repeated when they are left unsaid. ALL successful people “sit” with reflections / observations / revelations, then change them.
In my extremely short closer political involvement, ie my Branch and CLP, it was clear after three weeks, facing challenging facts was almost nonexistent. Anything challenging was avoided. The most dynamism observed was to preserve failing ways.
There was and is no lack of knowledge, theory, ability, observation nor even recognition that the Right Wing are beneath contempt and wedded to the Same Old Same Old. But the key problem is exemplified by some here too. A certain few express almost word for word that key problem. The peculiar idea that we must ignore crucial failings. Say nice things. Hide challenging ones and despite the catastrophic heartbreaking ones, continue as before. Despite the fact that even tested AVOIDABLE deaths today are around THIRTY THREE THOUSAND. That would not have been the policy of a True Labour government.
A TRUE Labour government would NEVER have pursue herd immunity allowing OVER ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND of the most vulnerable – OLD, DISABLED, POOR, FRONT LINE WORKERS, CLEANERS, NURSES, ARE WORKERS, DOCTORS, the 99% TO DIE.
But the SAY NOTHING CHALLENGING failed wet aporoach… that attitude / culture does not exist in medicine, surgery, engineering, manufacturing, tennis, football, swimming, octopush, curling, bowling, piloting, cricket, 100 M to marathons, baking, knitting, … in no area of life, in which humans strive to succeed… to win in a tangible useful way, is the attitude displayed by a few here allowed to hold sway.
That culture would be ridiculed. If by some error, a person with that attitude were employed, then MANDATORY RE training / human development exercises / coaching, would be prescribe URGENTLY. In fact they would be REMOVED from active duty, and considered a HAZARD to life.
How could it be that perfectly intelligent people, expect successes to occur AND be sustained without a similar logical approach?
SUSTAINED is a KEY. Bearing in mind that if we grasp the REALITY of the human condition… the reality, not some indulgent fantasy, … if we cared to grasp reality, it would be obvious that hopes crushed are more sharp, more painful than no hope at all. Crushed hopes often lead to people giving up forever.
That is serious. I do not believe Jeremy’s team intended that. Far from it. With I am sure perfectly decent / good / ideal / RARE NOBLE intentions, I suspect, that human behaviour was never ever considered… not for one minute during any of the last FOUR years but neither during ANY of the last FOURTY FOUR by Jeremy nor ANY of his team. From my observation, it is a culture an attitude on the left which had already spread deeper and further, long before I was even born.
Perhaps, it is because of “political” inexperience, fresh eyes, fresh vision can observe ACCURATELY BEFORE being BLINDED by group culture. “Out of the mouths of babes” and all that.
NOW is yet another chance to address CLEAR deficiencies honestly. NOW is ANOTHER chance to discover and develop NEW attitudes URGENTLY. There are hundreds of thousands hoping for change. We can deliver that change by changing. Change the wet culture. Change the defeatist culture. Change the head in the sand habit, as if problems will just disappear. Change the aversion to challenge. PRACTISE defending your ideas and if found wanting IMPROVE THEM.
Dump PATHETIC myths that you bring people together by staying silent, absent, then fudge. We are the challengers to Forty years of rampant Right wing governments and MSM. They can afford to be silent and absent because THEIR message is the status quo entrenched by the MSM. We cannot counter it with passive aggressive silence. And extraordinary absences then intermittent rousing tremendous speeches to those with whom we already agree then disappear for months out of sight. Out of sight, out of mind.
Politics is an exercise of REPEATED engagement and connection and PERSUASION. None of us have a right to be agreed with. New ideas have to compete with old ones and REPLACE them. That cannot be achieved by bewildering absences, long periods of silence, petulant, passive aggressive body language, inexplicable lack of graciousness and gratitude to those who step up to defend us and dispel lies.
Persuasion is rarely achieved by telepathy or chance. Challengers to the status quo HAVE to challenge. THROUGHOUT HISTORY challengers have done that. Up front. UNAMBIGUOUS. Caring for the mood of your troops. Not taking troops for granted. Not treating troops as fools. Dealing with basic needs and immediate concerns OF TROOPS HERE.
If we cannot win power here and change things here, then what worth the endless pathetic symbolic mumbles, proven largely ineffective over 44 years??? CND, WMD BLAIR Iraq invasion n a pack of lies, then front bench finding other things to do instead of turning up to support Alex Salmond’s motion to “impeach” the war criminal⁉️⁉️⁉️
A few will read the above as too straight forward…. needs softening or silencing. NO‼️ NEVER‼️ There is no time for that. The welfare of 65 million people of this country and billions worldwide are at stake.‼️
We are guaranteed failure if we continue to minimise the need to challenge ourselves. The wellbeing of the many is more important than the misguided spoilt indulgence of a few. A few who prove they have learnt little in decades. A few who prattle on about grass root communities, yet when the same communities express their democratic choice, they are called stupid, racist, lacking in “political education”, ignorant of class consciousness, misled by Farage and other tosh. The blind deaf exponents of “grass root” political involvement feel that they can resist Farage but the grassroots are too stupid.
Meanwhile for 44 years the grassroots basic immediate concerns have been ignored. Boarded up shops, decimated industry, unemployment, under nourished, under investment, yet the virtuous left wish the grassroots to ignore their LIVED experience to preserve a vile capitalist institution which failed to change their plight over 44 years. WHERE is the COMMON-SENSE in that⁉️⁉️⁉️ Where is the virtue in that???
What sort of “political educators” and virtue signallers are content and DETERMINED for the MANY to be as content as they are, with running the race halfway❓❓❓ After all, we are for the many. No??? 🌹🌹🌹
In your para 4 you mention herd immunity as not a policy to consider. If we don’t have a vaccine what is the alternative? Lockdown forever? Sweden seems to have it right and their govt says people in care homes are there because they are old and weak and unable to care for themselves at home with often multiple pre existing life threatening conditions so its unsurprising mortality levels there should be high.
Why have we have been denied access to the reasons why the Tories rejected the extremely successful South Korean model.
Coronavirus officials ‘withholding evidence’ on decision not to copy South Korea
Health officials are withholding the evidence used by the government when it decided not to follow South Korea’s plan to tackle coronavirus with mass testing.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/coronavirus-officials-withholding-evidence-decision-21991206
P c, thank you for your reply. We await a vaccine. Tried and tested science to save lives since before I was born.
Wisely there is an international race to win the kudos AND worthwhile pride of producing one ASAP to save precious lives all. That is definitely a POSITIVE ethos, worthwhile virtue, ingrained decency of Jeremy Corbyn, the “Left” and a collective TRUE LABOUR outlook of ALL decent people. THAT worthwhile virtue deserves praise. 🌹🌹🌹
You get people to wear masks, PPE and mass repeat testing, you make strict rules for care homes, workplaces, monitor people at airports, you get the R value below one and you stop large gatherings. Anyone not mixing in contact areas commit to not seeing older relatives. Germany and S.Korea have handled it. And if we are civilised we don’t allow older, BAME and vulnerable people to die for the sake of the obscene capitalist bubble.
Mainly to SteveH, 12:35pm
Your mention of South Korea, and the shock of learning the other day on TV about the median age in Africa being 19.7, (just checked – remembered it as being about 10) got me wondering about the average age in S Korea.
Got to assume it could be relevant in a number of ways. Guessing SK might be like China with most old people in ancient villages far from the conurbations where the young work and live.
Doesn’t excuse the Tories, but might partly explain the ridiculously tiny number of deaths in SK if villages are all old people with little contact with the outside world – and towns are all mobile, connected young people..
David – I don’t know, I’ll have a dig around for some data if I get the chance. However I do recall that one of the primary groups casualties were members of a religious sect who from the evidence of news footage appeared to be from older generations
Signpost, “Persuasion is rarely achieved by telepathy or chance.” Excellent!
PS The only thing I HAVE read is that Keir Starmer was given a copy of the report shortly after he became leader, but it was only after the report was leaked about a week later that he spoke about it AND announced an investigation into it, and if THAT is what you are referring to, I don’t think he was ‘sitting’ on the report – which implies that at some point he was going to make an announcement about the report – but had no intention of mentioning it and announcing an investigation, but was forced to do so after it was leaked.
My PS above ended up in the wrong place, and was meant to appear underneath my comment below.
The allegations were sat on. The appalling allegations began when the 45 minute WMD tony Blair war criminal cabal realised Jeremy would win. Jeremy and team then pursued four years of sitting on the allegations. Only as you say “compiling the dossier in the last month or so of Jeremy’s leadership.”
That INACTION was wrong on many levels. 1 – It effectively IGNORED the allegations. 2 – By so doing it created an environment in which the wrongdoers felt emboldened to continue. The facts prove that is exactly what happened. 3- The wrong doers were likely to consider Jeremy a fool and us foolish to support someone who allowed them to abuse him AND US with impunity.
4 – We may have little concern for ourselves BUT as a leaders, we have a DUTY OF CARE for others. We have a responsibility for the well being of those we lead. The membership has a right to expect that their leaders are putting their best efforts to serve them. The leadership team failed.
That must not happen again. People who can ill afford get emails begging for extra donations on top of subs. The least a leader who is decent and “comradely” could do is basic. Don’t take a single members support for granted. Do not underestimate the lasting damage that CRUSHED hope can inflict. The unforced errors need not have happened. The culture can change. It must change. We have to change it. We have to start with the individual. Oneself. We cannot change the world if after decades we have to be forced to consider doing things diffrently🌹🌹🌹
So you’re saying that Starmers aides from private health (who are they, what companies did they come from and what policies are they promoting now?) Are causing black men to be over 4× more likely to die from cv as white men and causing KS not to mention it!? Dont think so. This article is looking like an evidence free zone. Not a patch on usual standard. Guest contributor moonlighting from GCSE studies?
Did Starmer force himself into the shadow cabinet? Did Starmer force himself back in after the coup? Did Starmer insist he not be dismissed after he contradicted Jeremy re Brexit. Did Starmer force the 860 page dossier of hate, bullying and sabotage to be sat on, membership kept in the dark until he was elected?
Did the MSM force any of the above?
Do we gain anything by hiding these UNFORCED errors? Is it sensible, professional, effective, grown up to blame the big bad person over there for beating up our troops when we had the means and numbers and endorsement, to neutralise them???
I wasn’t aware that the leaked report was “sat on” signpost. You’ve said this on a number of occasions since it was first leaked, so can you elaborate – ie who “sat” on it, and for how long. I haven’t heard or read a single article (and there’s probably been about ten on JVLs website alone) covering the report that has mentioned it was sat on, and you appear to be the ONLY person claiming it was as far as I’m aware, and all I’ve read/heard from the outset is that the report was compiled in the last month or so of Jeremy’s leadership.
AH, you say “the report was compiled IN THE LAST MONTH or so of Jeremy’s leadership”,
Tell us AH, in how many MONTHS did the appalling allegations take place? Did the 860 page dossier cover 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11, or 12 months? Or additionally each month of the preceding THREE years? Plus, as per link I posted this morning? ie Appalling allegation AS SOON AS the WMD 45 minute cabal realised that Jeremy was going to win the leadership? They wanted to suspend the election. They wanted to freeze the membership.
What part of appeasement, unforced errors, indulgent zen, strengthening enemies while kicking supporters under a bus, carrying the nasty Remain bomb of Starmer into our heartlands do you not get❓
Unlike SH it appears you may not be pretending. You may genuinely be the type who knew Harold Shipman was murdering patients, but thought it to “harsh” to speak up …”not comradely” DRIVEL‼️
Or what about Jimmy Saville or Epstein or Rolf Harris??? People knew what was occurring, but for some misplaced perverted sense of loyalty or not rocking the boat, they allow themselves to be complicit with repeated failures over DECADES, thousands BETRAYED, and repetition of betrayal, failures, murders and abuse. Why???
Because intelligent people like you, plough on obsessed with protecting what should be stopped. Protecting what should be exposed. Protecting errors. Protecting failure. Take a quiet walk AH and reflect. To give you the benefit of doubt, you may mean well but you are tragically, catastrophically misguided.
It is worth repeating. THE ALLEGATIONS WHICH TOOK PLACE O V E R FOUR YEARS, from Jeremy being on the ballot were SAT ON. According to your own words, ONLY compiled in the last “month or so of Jeremy’s leadership.” In my book AH, that is inexcusable. Incompetent. Amateur. Damp. Limp. Unrealistic untethered unfocused ineffective dreamy pathetic drift. That has helped along with the TOXIC REMAINIAC jellied weaknesses, cost us this election.
Victory was GIFTED to johnson on a silver platter. He did not win. The win was GIFTED to him thereby allowing Starmer to seize the coveted opportunity to serve his masters Blair and the other TORY parasites. We must ACKNOWLEDGE those INCREDIBLE failings. It is extraordinary that STILL… after FIVE MONTHS even intelligent people like yourself still deceive yourself that successes can spring from ignoring facts, burying your head in the sand, preserve the same misjudgements and get a different outdone. Starmer and his Tory chums must be laughing. Or you may be laughing with them.
NOTHING was gifted to anyone signpost. The MSM along with the so-called ‘moderates’ and the BoD and the JLM and CAA and LAA et al stole the election from us with their lies and smears, and there was absolutely nothing Jeremy or his allies could have done about it. And what does it matter WHEN the things contained in the report happened. You can argue that such a report/investigation should have been ‘commissioned’ long before it was, but THAT is entirely different to there being a report that was sat on. All I know is that a LP spokesperson said (just after the report was leaked) that they found more than they ever imagined they would once staff started looking through emails etc.
Just about EVERYTHING you say in relation to Jeremy in your posts is negative and critical of him AND blames HIM for everything, and you repeat it over and over and over again whenever the opportunity arises, and even INVENT ‘situations’ so as to be able to repeat it all over again, as with your fiction yesterday about having gone out to watch the Red Arrows fly over and how you just HAPPENED to get into a conversation with a ‘stranger and his son’, and how – ‘Amazingly’ – the topic of ‘Jeremy’ came up AND, needless to say, both the stranger and his son just happened to have lots of negative stuff to say about him as well! Your objective is to trash Jeremy, and THAT is all you do whenever you speak about him in your posts, which you do on a regular basis.
We don’t know what prompted Jennie Formby to get a number of staff to look through all the emails etc and compile a report, but in the final analysis it doesn’t really matter whether it had been done a year ago or two years ago or whatever, because just as they HAVE, the MSM in general framed it in such a way so as to reflect badly on Jeremy.
But the point is that there WASN’T a report that anyone was sitting on, and to claim that THAT was the case is a falsehood, just like your claim that ‘hostile presenters’ said they couldn’t understand why Jeremy Corbyn hadn’t started legal action against any of the people who had called him an anti-semite, and of course you never provided the names of these ‘hostile presenters’ despite me asking you several times in the following couple of weeks, and for the OBVIOUS reason:
Because it was complete fabrication on your part! And ONLY shills fabricate and invent stuff!!
Alllan – An interesting little bit of info for you that appears to have been largely overlooked.
Within days of becoming leader, Starmer has had to deal with a fresh bout of factional infighting following the leaking of an internal report into anti-Semitism and the conduct of former staff critical of Corbyn.
The report revealed Milne had exported a 65,000-word WhatsApp chat group with former general secretary Iain McNicol and other senior officials “so that staff could investigate its contents”.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/corbyn-aide-seumas-milne-still-on-labour-party-payrolll_uk_5eaad2ffc5b6efb0d33cff80
Steve (I’m hoping this post will appear under yours), I haven’t read the report from start to finish, and the prospect of doing so – even in a number of sittings, so to speak – is daunting, although I DID spend about twenty minutes skimming through it when it was first leaked, checking out a bit here and a bit there. BUT, I just spent ten minutes quickly racing through it stopping to check what it said any time I spotted McNicol’s name, to see if THAT was the bit that the Huffpost referred to, and then came across it. There may be more about it further on the report, but I’m pretty sure that it’s the bit that Paul Waugh was referring to, and here’s what it says:
‘The contents of these WhatsApp chats were made available to the Labour Party by one of the groups’ members. They run to over 400,000 words.
Finally, the Party examined a WhatsApp group chat between Iain McNicol, Emilie Oldknow, Karie Murphy (Chief of Staff, LOTO) and Seumas Milne (Executive Director – Strategy and Communication). This was established by McNicol and Oldknow as a work tool to aid communication on 26 January 2017, and the final message was sent on 7 April 2018. It ran to 65,000 words in total. Seumas Milne exported the entire chat so that staff could investigate its contents.’
The manner in which Paul Waugh describes it – and I obviously assume that this is the point you were making – is that Seamus Milne ALONG with Iain McNicol exported the entire Whatsapp group chat so that staff could investigate its contents, and given that McNicol stood down a couple of years ago, then THAT must have happened at some point BEFORE he stood down, but it doesn’t say any such thing, as you can see, and I have no doubt whatsoever that Paul Waugh phrased it that way deliberately so as to make it look as if such information had been known about for several years, and yet nothing was done about it until recently (it actually says in the report that it took staff THREE months to investigate all the emails etc and put the report together).
And I should add that on seeing the bit you quoted from the Huffpost article, it REALLY didn’t make sense to me that Seamus Milne would have done such a thing with Iain McNicol OR McNicol with Milne, and THAT is why I started skimming through the report to ascertain EXACTLY what it said.
Allan – I didn’t read the HuffPost article in quite the same way as you, I didn’t see any collusion between Milne and McNicol over the WhatsApp transfer. However you have prompted me to look at it further (tomorrow) I will get back to you if I have anything further to add.
My apologies to the folks who have posted below, but I just came across the following bit in the report, unrelated to the false impression that Paul Waugh dissembled, but very interesting never-the-less:
‘Chapter 3 also examines the role of LOTO in disciplinary processes up to 2018, finding that consultation with LOTO on a range of cases was normal conduct under Ed Miliband, but largely stopped when Jeremy Corbyn became leader, apart from some cases involving high profile individuals. Examining ongoing communications on such matters, and prominent cases such as Ken Livingstone and Jackie Walker, shows how LOTO staff increasingly chased action on antisemitism from GLU and Labour HQ, but were often met with a hostile or obstructive response.’
And can I urge anyone who hasn’t read the report to at least read up to page 26. Here’s a link to it:
https://www.guerillainvesting.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/200329-Labour-Report-Final.pdf.pdf
Oh, so WHY did you say “Allan – An interesting little bit of info for you that appears to have been largely overlooked.”
What was interesting about it Steve? And WHAT exactly has been “largely overlooked”?
Given that you brought THAT to my attention whilst I was disputing with signpost his claim that the report had been sat on, I can see no other reason for you to have brought it to my attention other than you regarded what Paul Waugh said as evidence/proof that at least some of the contents of the report had been known about for a couple of years or so, and did so so as to in effect back up what signpost was saying.
Allan – I am perplexed why you are looking to pick a fight. Quite what you are picking a fight over has escaped me for the moment. I am tired so I am going to bed as soon as I’ve finished tidying up comments that were addressing me that I missed earlier. As I said above I will look into it further when I can apply a refreshed mind to it. As you’ve acknowledged yourself there is a lot of documentation to plough through.
Apologies yet again, but regarding the paragraph from the report that I posted above, I can only conclude that what they are saying is that LOTO kept chasing up staff at GLU and Labour HQ to deal with the high profile cases such as Ken and Jackie one way or another, BUT the staff in question kept prevaricating so as to drag the cases out as long as possible so as to get as much negative and critical media coverage out of the cases as they possibly could, and at the same time have their media ‘mouth-pieces such as Hodge blame Jeremy every few months for the cases taking so long to resolve.
And I have a strong feeling that a certain Mr Blair – probably along with Mandelson and Alan Johnson and a few others – were in there at the center of it all orchestrating it all.
Steve, I am NOT picking a fight, merely explaining why I thought you posted that particular bit from the Paul Waugh article and, as a consequence of you THEN saying that ISN’T why you posted it (and that you read it differently to me), I merely asked you what was interesting about it AND why you said it has been largely overlooked AND why you brought it to my attention, as such. So how is THAT picking a fight?
And forgive me for saying so, but what is there to look in to?.
I had such a terrible experience, in the past, on the only occasion on which I called NHS 111, that I will never call it again. The person who answers the phone is completely inhuman and no matter how you may be feeling (I was in terrible pain) forces you to answer a series of very stupid questions. There is no care, no human feeling. NHS 111 should be discontinued.
You spoke to someone? Was that recently? I get text messages saying I am ‘extremely vulnerable’ and should call the virus help line. You deal with a computer that wants to know the reference number on the letter I was sent but I haven’t had any letter which the text message warned might be the case. Without the reference I was asked to log off. After more texts I did manage to raise a 16 digit reference but when I inputted it I was informed the number was already being used by another patient. Later I tried to Register with the Coronavirus Service but it consistently ‘failed to submit’. So in three attempts to get help I failed altogether. Piss poor private companies grabbing cash contracts without actually being able to do it alongside a Govt that uses the virus as an excuse to centralise and cut out local initiative seems to be the main problem. My GP’s surgery seem totally in the dark and although they apparently said I should be on the vulnerable list all I get is requests for the magical reference number that doesn’t exist or is already ‘in use by somebody else’. Much of it seems to be an excuse not to want to register let alone test which also helps the Govt keep figures low.
What was the subject again?
Oh, yeh – disproportionate deaths of BAME and poor people.
The Tories will be content to ‘suspect’ some genetic component in the case of BAME victims until the cows come home – but that can’t logically be the case with the poor.
It could be true that there’s a genetic factor – it could also be true that curry is protecting the Indian subcontinent.
It seems to me that one likely actor here is the shared ability of the educated middle classes to extract maximum benefit from all public services.
We know it happens in education and politics too, even in policing, not just in healthcare – the middle class always make sure they know how to play whatever system they wish to cheat.
Just knowing who and how to ask is a massive advantage.
It was no accident that Blair was a scion of the middle class.
Keir’s so called links to private health that are ‘outlined’ above are extremely tenuous at best.
Keir Starmer was elected leader approximately 1 month ago. So even if one accepts the false premise above it begs the question – Who was responsible for not holding the government to account for the previous 3 months before Keir was elected?
Steve, you should be able to get a job making excuses for Mr. Greasy Head in the national press. They like employing pro establishment arselickers so I believe. You could boost up your retirement fund substantially for when you leave the UK and settle down elsewhere.
Cardinal Sin – Unfortunately you got so wrapped up in making false attacks on me that you clean forgot to answer my question.
Nothing false about what he said.
You’re an arse kisser. A toady. A scab.
You’re a great example of the flith inside Labour.
Have a better day.
NVLA – FFS grow up.
@SteveH
I am being grown up.
If this was the pub (which it isn’t), I’d have told you to fuck off long ago.
As would several other drinkers here.
I stand behind my previous comments. You are the text book scab
NVLA
Are you sure you’d be so polite as to ‘only’ tell steve to fuck off? God bless your temperament, if so.
@Toffee
A man has to try to tolerate others, as frustrating as it often is. Being a carer has taught me lots of tolerance.
Several other patrons would get either “Go away” or “I’m not listening” ala Eddie Murphy Beverly Hills Cop
SteveH, unfounded accusations and innuendo are unwelcome but Starmer’s own actions have PROVEN that he complies with many right wing establishment views. I am all for defending the underdog but not when they aspire by deception to be the top dog.
Jack – I guess given your post that you will be able to provide some credible links to this evidence you speak of.
However there is plenty of evidence that Keir has been holding both Johnson and his sidekick Raab to account at both PMQs and in the press. If you want an example I suggest you read through my series of 3 posts yesterday in response to some f…wit falsely accusing Keir of the equivalent of Jeremy not bowing enough and making similar accusations to yours.
https://skwawkbox.org/2020/05/07/sage-committee-now-recommends-face-masks-in-public-and-govt-has-not-changed-public-guidance-how-many-more-lives-has-it-cost/#comment-145185
Says the beaut that voted for starmer despite pleading his alleged corbynistic credentials.
Who was responsible for corbyn being ousted, due to their acquiescence when starmer plus watson plotted against him?
…Well?
“Who was responsible for corbyn being ousted, due to their acquiescence when starmer plus watson plotted against him?”
Toffee, I find StevH’s defence of Snotty inexplicable, but those responsible for Corbyn being ousted were the media, the plotters in the PLP and in Southside and everyone who voted for the Tories, surely?
What actual, real life effect does defending him in these pages have?
You’ll find that a report’s recently been leaked which shows there was a large-scale connivance to LOSE the election and get Corbyn ousted.
Of course, steve h hasn’t much to say about that. Guilty conscience getting the better of him, is it?
I never once seen steve h put starmer under any scrutiny over the shithousery about steamrollering through a policy decision WITHOUT a vote being taken at conference. (You’ll remember he moaned a lot about democracy and 37% not voting in the EU referendum, though. Strange, that.)
And THAT betrayal was the reason voters deserted the party in droves and LOST labour the election. The papers conspired against Corbyn every bit as much in 2017 as they did in 2019 but Corbyn was just 2,700 votes or so from becoming PM in 2017, wasn’t he?.
That’s because the shithouses in the party hadn’t done enough to get rid of him. So you can blame the papers all you like. I know who the REAL culprits are.
And steve h is as complicit as the likes of starmer, oldknow, hodge and the fucking rest of them.
Toffee, my point is that despite the large readership of Skwawkbox’s own posts, our bletherings in these comments have no effect on votes or opinions in the real world, and certainly don’t influence the machinations within the PLP or Southside.
Judging by the small number of commenters’ names I don’t recognise, I’d guess no more than a few dozen or a few score of the thousands who read Skwawkbox actually read the comments. I don’t even think Steve Walker spends more time here than he absolutely has to to moderate us.
If you have knowledge of SteveH being an active participant in Corbyn losing the election you haven’t said so, and you should – by “active” I mean being a party to any of the various conspiracies – or even voting for the fucking Tories?
I don’t believe our comments here count for a damn thing – I think they just rattle around in this vitriolic little cockpit of our own making.
Toffee – My delight at your rather flattering assessment about the amount of influence that little old me can exerts by commenting on an obscure LW blog is somewhat tempered by the knowledge it comes from someone like you.
steve h – ME ‘flatter’ YOU?
Oh-ho, that’s a pearl, right there. Abso-fucking-lutely NOT, sonny. You flatter yourself, but then again that’s what your lot do, because nobody else outside your clique does.
I’m NOT the labour party member, and my voice counts for nothing, remember?
SteveH, “Jack – I guess given your post that you will be able to provide some credible links to this evidence you speak of.”
Steve, I try to be as fair minded as possible when making comments, so please do not be disingenuous. There has been more than enough verifiable information published in these pages to show that Starmer is not the person he makes out to be. Do you think the first thought that comes into his head when having to make a decision is: ‘What would a Socialist do?’
I very much doubt it. It is more likely to be ‘What would look good to the establishment’
He appears to be following Mossad’s playbook – ‘By deception we wage war’.
“There has been more than enough verifiable information published in these pages”
For instance?
SteveH you asked for verifiable information. I assume you mean to support my assertion that Starmer is more establishment than Socialist?
Is it true that he said he didn’t class himself as a Zionist? and is it true that many of his actions since then have shown the opposite? Is it true that he said he supported Corbyn and then took part in the coup against him? Is it true that he has supported expulsions of anti-Zionists, none of whom have had any accusations against them proven? Is it true that he decided to dismiss at least three cases of murder accusations against the police rather than let a jury make the decision? Is it true that he withheld information about his funding from a member of the Israel Lobby until after he was elected?
Here is a copy of a resignation letter to him from Bronagh Wilson, someone else who sees through his duplicity:
Dear Sir Keir (don’t fret, I’m genuflecting as I type) and Angela,
you have absolutely no need to thank me for “putting my trust in you” as nothing could be further from the truth and, in fact, I cancelled my DD within 10 minutes of learning the result.
I must say that it has been an extraordinary and enlightening few years. I have now learnt that the two things you are not allowed to be in a “democratic socialist party” are democratic or socialist. War criminal or friend to Russian oligarchs and paedophile pimps, no problem.
Furthermore, I have learnt that anti-racism is not something to be lauded or promoted but something to be cynically employed by racists to destroy anti racists.
Equally, I have learnt that the bulk of the PLP are vile, self-serving, self-entitled vacuous nonentities who would shame a convention of professional fraudsters. At last, and to my great relief, I don’t have to sacrifice my own integrity by having any connection whatsoever with the likes of Tom Watson, Wes Streeting, Ian Austin (God help us all), Margaret Hodge, John Mann, Louise Ellman, Joan Ryan, Jess Phillips (giving Hazel Blears a run for her money in the most objectionable female ever to sully the Party in the unspeakable futility and vacuity stakes).
I could go on at great length but I’m sure you get the picture. The Labour Party had one chance and one chance only to save itself from the terminal death spiral it was determined to pursue. And for nothing other than the very narrow self interest of the utterly useless but pernicious degenerates who mainly populate the Labour benches, you have eschewed that chance and destroyed the hopes of the majority who you pretend to represent. The Labour Party is now an embodiment of ignominy and a rancid, noisome, rotting, corpse that needs burying, for the sake of human decency, as soon as possible.
Believe me when I state that I would far rather not be in a position to say “told you so” but your collective lack of imagination and integrity and inability to learn anything from experience means that that is an inevitability. We are now expected to return to the merry go round of blue Tory, red Tory and be content with that?
The year 1997 is long gone and is not coming back. The world is careering towards a dystopian nightmare, the like of which has rarely if ever been seen, and what do the likes of you and your colleagues have to offer as a solution? Do you really believe that cretins of the calibre of those mentioned above (and many others beside) have the slightest idea how the coming storms can be negotiated or ameliorated? Do you really?
One of my earliest politically informative experiences, one that motivated me to be a socialist, was learning about the Holocaust. The most crucial lesson I took from that awareness was that the completely irrational nature of that horrific stain on humanity’s history meant that any of us, in the right circumstances, could similarly be victimised. And, equally importantly, any of us could be the victimisers.
The fact, for example, that in the instance of the Holocaust, Jews were the primary (but not only) victims does not for one moment mean that Jewish communities could not themselves harbour racists in their midst. And your “friends” in the BoD, the JLM and the LFoI, in their unswerving promotion and support for the definitive racism that is Zionism, seem to be determined to prove the second point.
The Holocaust wasn’t deplorable because it was Jews who were victims it was deplorable because they were human beings. It may have been the greatest crime in history but it has some stiff competition for that accolade. Or perhaps you have never troubled yourselves to look into the reality of black African slavery in the Americas. An obscenity, beyond adequate description, that lasted for hundreds of years. Try visiting the Slavery Museum in Liverpool and see how long you can last without retching with disgust. All racism is equally repugnant and wrong, both morally and factually. But to promote a hierarchy of racism is nothing more than an act of racism in itself.
For the record: Jews, scattered around the world as they are, do not have the right to self determination in Palestine, or any other country in which they are not already residing. The only people who have the right to self-determination in Palestine are the Palestinians, whether they be Jewish, Christian or Muslim. Jews from Europe, North Africa or elsewhere arriving in Palestine, and ethnically cleansing the existing population because they covet their land, are not exercising their self-determination they are exercising colonialism. It may have been unfortunate for the ethno-nationalists of the Zionist movement that they only succeeded at the same time as colonialism had become anathema, but that is tough luck.
Colonialism always was, and still is, an abhorrence, which is quite rightly now spurned as completely unacceptable. Using the argument that Jews are uniquely singled out to be denied the same right to exercise their self-determination as other people is an offensive absurdity when their “self-determination” depends upon the ethnic cleansing of the long existing population. To pretend that objections to the Zionist takeover of Palestine must solely be motivated by antisemitism is offensive in the extreme. Or, to further the analogy, which black or brown people would you deem to be acceptable targets for ethnic cleansing in order to provide for the self-determination of Gypsies, Roma or Jehovah’s Witnesses? All of whom were also targeted by the Nazis and still endure widespread discrimination and persecution.
I don’t really believe that you Sir Keir (genuflecting while typing), with your “forensic” mind, need to have explained to you why two wrongs don’t make a right. So I can only conclude that your shameful grovelling to the racist Board of Deputies is an acute demonstration of your utter bad faith. But why talk of shame where there is no conscience?
I have to admit that the apparatchiks and core of the PLP are certainly on trend with their adoption and promotion of the black is white, up is down, war is peace narratives that are so de rigueur these days. The two of you may not have been the most prominent culprits in the obsessive and deranged campaign to destroy the most decent man in political life, for a generation at least, to endlessly accuse a lifelong campaigner against racism of embodying the most egregious racism, to attack good, Jewish, socialists for being antisemites (risible if it weren’t so serious) but I think it safe to say that your low profile on the issues was motivated more by an eye on the main chance rather than a matter of any principle.
Principle, in this context? Don’t be ridiculous. The world is in an extremely precarious state, the future will not be pretty if we continue with this current trajectory. What we definitely do not need is the likes of you two, David Miliband, Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson and all their cronies who infest the Party (in particular its machine and the bulk of the PLP) with their arrogant, self-entitled, mendacious inversion of the truth, to assume control of the political discourse at the expense of truth and social justice.
I really am perplexed as to where you think you’ll be going with this. You will never win back Scotland, “northern heartlands” – forget it. You’re obviously banking on once again being allowed to be the Tory B team while the real article regroups and refreshes for its next assault on society. In this triumphally Goebbelian era, it is actually you who are the racists, you who are utterly indifferent to the truth. Faux outrage about racism is just a tool that can be used to smear socialists into silence and oblivion.
I think you Sir, knight of the realm, forensically minded Keir (genuflecting etc) must be delighted with the hearty endorsement of George Osborne; what an accolade. He certainly believes that the preservation of the status quo is firmly secured. And who could argue with that? The Labour Party is now dead, it has ceased to be, it is bereft of life. You and your fellow travellers disgust me and it is time you PASOKed right off!. “Put my trust in you”? You certainly have a warped sense of humour, I’ll grant you that much!
Bronagh Wilson
former Labour Party Member, Armagh
Jack – I guess the length of the above diatribe was intended to beat me into submission. I can’t speak to its content yet but full marks for effort. I will get round to reading it full and formulating my reply but given the exceptional length of your post it may be tomorrow.
what a insightful letter Jack T…and what a tragedy that we will bleed thousands from the party .Bronagh Wilson expresses my feelings and my heartbreak at what the Labour party has become.Sir keir Starmer,,,,,The name and title say it all of what happened in the Friday 13th disaster We didnt just loose the election,… WE Lost Our Soul..The ryme “They marched us up to the top of the hill. And they marched us back again” Thats why I feel cheated we are back were we started in 1997Blair and the nightmare starts again only worse in a embedded establishment knight of the realm.The sheer hypocrisy and vile title represents everything I HATE about the British establishment and the disgusting archaic system.I will not be marched to the bottom of the hill again.Hopfully some will succeed in a Socialists dream of a Labour party of the people but not in my liftime.
SteveH, ignore the letter if you wish, it was someone else’s reinforcing view of Starmer. My substantive response to your games was in the first few lines which you can easily refute … if it’s possible!
https://novaramedia.com/2020/05/07/senior-labour-figures-hoped-to-suspend-the-2015-leadership-election-says-leaked-report/
”One put it in stark terms to the SKWAWKBOX”
No disrespect, Steve…But they need to get it out in stark terms to MSM if they’re THAT concerned.starmer’s lot would’ve had no compunctions and wouldn’t have hesitated had Corbyn has/had the most tenuous links to private healthcare*
The ‘honeymoon period’ was over as soon as it started for the worse-than-useless establishment stooge. Time to bring the gates crashing down on him & his ‘gated community socialism’
*I don’t know if Corbyn has had any link to private healthcare,it’s highly doubtful – but a large proportion of MPs in the house seem to have their finger in that particular pie; just like a load of them are into property letting (landlords)
Toffee – Given the complete lack of evidence in the above article it is very difficult to make any judgement whatsoever about its veracity or relevance.
Christ on a crutch…You’ll put up a case for starmer over anything, and in the same breath you feebly attempt to pontificate about judgements based on ‘veracity’ and ‘relevance’.
But he was the best of a bad bunch…
You’re a liar AND a hypocrite, who has NO place suggesting ANYTHING to ANYONE.
Here’s more evidence of your hypocritical fuckwittery here https://skwawkbox.org/2020/05/07/sage-committee-now-recommends-face-masks-in-public-and-govt-has-not-changed-public-guidance-how-many-more-lives-has-it-cost/#comment-145263
Toffee – I’ve replied to your nonsense here
https://skwawkbox.org/2020/05/07/sage-committee-now-recommends-face-masks-in-public-and-govt-has-not-changed-public-guidance-how-many-more-lives-has-it-cost/#comment-145269
Toffee – Just for clarity my comment above refers to this SB article not the one referenced to in Novaramedia.
I would be AMAZED if Jeremy had even a tenuous link to private “health” NO CARE BANDITS. If he did, Stoma, Twatson, WMD war criminal Bliar, Hodge, the Faulkner that was WMD flatmate… who gave a few lines of his “legal advice” justifying WMD Blair’s deep delve up George Bush… those Tories would have been all over such an impossibility like the rabid pus filled rashes they are.
Ummuna, Berger, Streeting, Soubrey, Blunkett Straw all that type, would have joined in. Jeremy failed to keep them busy defending themselves from expulsion, yes. But Jeremy would sooner pay for every single person in every remote part of the world to have the best healthcare than seek personal gain or defend himself from the most contemptible parasites and creatures who “worked night and day” to “stop” him.🌹🌹🌹
signpostnotwindchimes – Please feel free to continue ranting ineffectually to your hearts content.
I’ve yet to see any actual evidence, credibly or otherwise, that Starmer is linked to private health providers.
SH it is clear you are determined to pretend not to see. If the evidence was spat in your one eye, then u would still pretend to fail to see, and with admirable determination, try to fool as many people as possible.
SH it is plain you and your team never give up. I would give much for all who believe a World Transformed for the better is possible, to have you and your team’s collective hard work.
To quote one of the creatures you worship – Peter Mandelson – I wish our team would… “Work night and day to stop” those like you. Even better, Sh it would be that you had a clean heart & mind transplant. Then you may develop the vision, insight and foresight to realise that the prevailing SAME OLD SAME OLD causes unnecessary pain, suffering, grief and death to millions every day all over the world.
SH it is that which distresses me greatly. And SH it is a puzzle how you treat heartbreaking loss of life and grief, so lightly.
windchimes – Well thanks for your contribution but you won’t be surprised if given your loss of credibility yesterday I treat anything you have to say with a pinch of salt. The fact remains that to date nobody has provided any evidence, do you know of any?
Have you noticed Toffee, that his recent words about rent problems due to lockdown sound more like The Landlord Party? Especially when compared to Corbyns tweet back in March asking for rent holidays and no evictions.
As for Kia Stoma and the 1.3 litres, they are going to shaft themselves better than we ever could.
My Dad has been dead (MND for those who care) a long time now (thirty years this December). He taught me as well as he could given the circumstances. Self sufficiency was the biggest lesson. Often with the words “They’ll need you before you need them” I keep hearing them a lot lately.
“They’ll need you before you need them”
Wise words indeed, NVLA.
steve h thought that his 70% of members was more than enough to piss the general election.
My voice ‘counts for nothing’, he told me; or words to that effect.
And because of cretinous mindsets like steve h’s, we all of us have to suffer another decade plus of toerag rule, because that party’s going fucking NOWHERE under the slimy Easter Island-headed one, who’s lickspittles and toadies will keep him in the post whatever because they have the party all boxed off between themselves.
.
We’re yet to see any actual evidence of usefulness, moral fibre, and opposition to toerag government from starmer – credibly or otherwise.
But the ‘Best of a bad bunch’ still got your vote. Still gets your unabashed approval (FWIW) Not hard to figure just why that is.
Toffee – None are so blind as those that choose not to see.
You said it…
Toffee – Yet another rant. Is that really the best response you could manage.
Is that all I can manage, you’re asking? Hmmm…let’s see…
Claimed to have supported corbynistic policies, refused point-blank to question, scrutinise or condemn starmer’s motives for conniving against Corbyn, then voted for starmer – and is invariably his biggest advocate across the interweb.
He’s disliked and distrusted (And rightfully so) almost universally by the left, as are you.
But like him, you have no scruples, or sense of shame. Even after being caught out lying ‘in flagrante’ you still pop up to spout your pro-starmer bollocks that nobody’s buying.
…That’s when you’re not making outlandish statements like how pro-eu politicians gave us the NHS & welfare state.
You’re weirder than ed balls, and he’s a proper fucking oddball, him.
So in essence, yeah – that’s all I’ve got. Thank Christ it’s not what YOU’VE got.
Toffee – Just because you keep repeating lies it doesn’t make them true. You haven’t proved (outside your own addled mind) that I have ever lied about anything. The fact that you are desperately recycling your already disproved accusations just shows you up for who you are.
Toffee – Well to be little more precise I typed (wrote) it to you.
Let’s see you PROVE I’m a liar – y’know? Like I PROVED YOU to be a LIAR last week?
Go on, I’ve got ALL day…
Toffee – Did you, I must have missed that.
Oh you missed it, did you?
.
Would you like me to show it to everyone and prove yet again you’re a liar?
I think I’ve got the page bookmarked for future reference, seeing as you didn’t fuck off from the site because like starmer you have no scruples and no shame.
Remember when you challenged me to find evidence you’d NEVER used the: ‘37% never voted in the EU referendum’ excuse?
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/05/26/audio-mccluskey-dismantles-poor-imitation-machiavelli-watson-and-dismisses-centrist-referendum-spin/#comment-107097
There it is in black & white. Liar.
Now find proof of me lying, like you claim I’ve done. If you can’t then I suggest you apologise profusely, and refrain from further spouting your tedious shite on this site, before you libel anyone else.
Here’s a helpful wee tip for ya. The best way to stop your pants from being on fire is to piss in them, soft lad.
Toffee – Don’t make me laugh, if you regard those few words as proof of anything then you should be medically excused from jury service. The simple fact that is the best you could come up with from the entirety of what must be several hundred of my posts says it all. (far too many of them responding to either your unprovoked childish attacks or baseless accusations).
Having a foul mouthed rant will never be a substitute for evidence
Y’know, steve h, that just about everything you were forewarned about from people on here has come to pass.
You enabled and manufactured the state of the party as it now stands, because of your shithousery. You only need look at the comments on any left leaning website (here included) to see the arse has fallen out of the support the party once had before reneging on the EU policy.
You do know that you’ve shown yourself up to be a hypocrite and a liar on several occasions, on a daily basis, and STILL you come on here to attempt to give us the ‘benefit of your pearls of wisdom’?
Don’t you realise people are all too wise to you, and have been for years now?
Surely you must be aware by now that people see you as no more than the failed wannabe careerist politician you aspired to be, given the way you carry on?
You’re a bad joke that even the perpetually unfunny ‘thief of bad gags’ tarbuck’d be ashamed to crack.
Give it up, lad.
Toffee – Have you any evidence of a significant drop in the party’s membership.
ps: You make an awful lot of silly assumptions about others, I have never had any desire to be a politician careerist or otherwise.
Are the party numbers now higher than when Corbyn was the honcho?
No.
Does starmer get the approval from left wing websites that Corbyn got?
No.
Did starmer get 300,000 or so, or 61.8% of the membership voting him to be leader?
No.
Did starmer get 59.5% of the vote against THREE candidates rather than two?
No.
Have (plenty of) people expressed their intent to leave the party due to starmer?
Yes.
Will people be flocking to the party under starmer’s stewardship?
If they do they can fuck right off, so that’ll be a ‘No’ , then.
And finally, are you a gobshite?
Most definitely.
The Toffee (597) 09/05/2020 at 5:27 pm
“Are the party numbers now higher than when Corbyn was the honcho? No.
As there were numerous reports of people joining the Labour party immediately after the GE I would have thought there is a good chance of there being more members now than immediately prior to the GE defeat. The most up to date verifiable figures I know of is that there were 552,835 members who qualified to vote in the leadership elections
Does starmer get the approval from left wing websites that Corbyn got? No.
Frequenting left-wing websites is quite a niche activity so it is difficult to see how their support is relevant to Labour’s future election success.
Starmer got 275,780 (56.2%) of the membership vote. Did starmer get 300,000 or so, or 61.8% of the membership voting him to be leader? No
Did starmer get 59.5% of the vote against THREE candidates rather than two? No.
I can’t see what you are getting at here. they were 2 different elections and therefore had different dynamics. However I do wish they would publish the option votes to give a fuller picture of the overall mandate.
Have (plenty of) people expressed their intent to leave the party due to starmer? Yes.
Anecdotes from largely anonymous individuals having a rant on LW websites isn’t evidence. Verifiable membership figures are.
Will people be flocking to the party under starmer’s stewardship? If they do they can fuck right off, so that’ll be a ‘No’ , then.
I don’t have the gift of prophecy so I guess we’ll have to wait and see what the next set of published membership figures reveal. You are welcome to get back to me when they are published.
And finally, are you a gobshite? Most definitely.
FFS – The playground insults say far more about you than they do about me.
”Frequenting left-wing websites is quite a niche activity so it is difficult to see how their support is relevant to Labour’s future election success.”
Well, YOU frequent them. Does it not give you a clue how to gauge the opinions of labour VOTERS who determine the party’s success?
Oh silly me, I forgot. Not only do non-members’ voices NOT count, they’re not even reasonable; I mean, nobody could’ve possibly forseen the humiliation that was the 2019 election result once starmer had undemocratically steamrollered through a policy without a vote being taken on it, could they?
Well, could they?
Then again, when I showed you that page on the official labour website that showed the labour EU referendum stance which went something like: ‘Britain IS leaving the EU…’ YOU said nobody visits ‘obscure’ sites like that.
That’s what you think of the official labour site, you complete imbecile.
You have NO IDEA of how people think, just like starmer you think you know it all, but in reality you know NOTHING and NEVER listen to sound advice..
The Toffee (597) 09/05/2020 at 7:20 pm
“starmer had undemocratically steamrollered through a policy without a vote being taken on it, could they? Well, could they?
What on earth are you wittering on about, it is a verifiable fact that conference voted through this policy. (FFS even the Brexit Central Website reported it)
Then again, when I showed you that page on the official labour website that showed the labour EU referendum stance which went something like: ‘Britain IS leaving the EU…’ YOU said nobody visits ‘obscure’ sites like that.
I recall that exchange being about you claiming that your above ‘quote’ was current Labour party policy at the time of our discussion. I was simply pointing out that neither policy or the manifesto are set in aspic and that it had been changed at conference.
You have NO IDEA of how people think, just like starmer you think you know it all, but in reality you know NOTHING and NEVER listen to sound advice..
I voted for what Ii/i> thought was the best candidate as is my democratic right, not how others tried dictating to me. Incidentaly it is undeniable that more people voted like me for Starmer than didn’t.
SteveH 09/05/2020 AT 8:05 PM
”I voted for what Ii/i> thought was the best candidate as is my democratic right, not how others tried dictating to me. ”
…And you call ME ‘predictable’?
Here’s what I wrote @7:50 this evening, on another thread.
https://skwawkbox.org/2020/05/07/sage-committee-now-recommends-face-masks-in-public-and-govt-has-not-changed-public-guidance-how-many-more-lives-has-it-cost/#comment-145315
The Toffee (597)09/05/2020 AT 7:50 PM
…Oh..Hang on, I might’ve forgotten something…let’s see…Oh, I know what it is, now…You were using your DEMOCRATIC right, weren’t you? The same one you weren’t offered about changing the promise to respect the referendum result?
Once again you’ve proved you’re ALL TOO EASY. You’re not even a challenge and you’re beginning to grate, now.
And as for your plea that other former Corbyn voters voted for starmer; well don’t you worry your little self, I hold them in the same contempt I do you.
Toffee – Could you try again but this time could you at least make an attempt to put a coherent argument together.
I have never had any desire to be a politician careerist or otherwise.
Just WHO are you tryin’ to kid, numbnuts? That’s as piss-poor as your ‘best of a bad bunch’ tripe.
The ONLY way you’ll prove it is to stop acting like one, and give straight answers to simple questions instead of squirming like a heavily-salted slug when fronted with even the most innocuous of questions.
Toffee – I don’t have to prove anything you’re the one making the accusations and f…wit claims, not me. But I do know that I have never expressed any desire to enter politics on any forum. You are welcome to take up the challenge and search the web if you don’t believe me. Have fun!
So just give us the names of these mysterious Starmer staffers and their links then. Simples
David Walsh – I wouldn’t recommend holding your breath whilst you wait for them.
Then are we to accept that you’re categorically denying starmer doesn’t employ aide(s) from private healthcare backgrounds?
Mind you, you were quite happy for starmer to withhold the details and identities of his financial backers, weren’t you?
The slimy twunt can’t do any wrong in your eyes. Does he make you swallow?
The Toffee (597) at 7:25 pm
Then are we to accept that you’re categorically denying starmer doesn’t employ aide(s) from private healthcare backgrounds?
NO
I’m not denying or claiming anything, I’m simply asking for some evidence. So far none has been provided by SB (or anyone else) so I can’t access for myself either its veracity or its significance. Why you should find my concern at the distinct lack of evidence a problem is perplexing.
Not gonna answer those simple questions AGAIN, steve? Not even attempting to wriggle out of this one?
But you DO swallow, without starmer ordering you to?
You didn’t deny it. Therefore, it’s got to be true.
Toffee – I have answered your statement putting words in my mouth. As for Starmer’s funding I would much rather that the rules that were set by the NEC and agreed by all candidates had been that there was immediate disclosure but those weren’t the rules agreed.
However what I’ve stated previously on these pages I would prefer that any candidate for the leadership posts that passes the PLC stage should be given a grant and no further funding or outside donations should be allowed. Outside finance should have no part in influencing our internal elections. I also find it difficult to see how the NEC can justify making the situation worse by charging both sets of leadership candidate £5000 + VAT each for access to membership databases.
Off topic, sorry.
Been to the supermarket – keeping my distance, only touching the cart handle and the individual items I’m buying – wearing a mask, alcohol hand sanitiser in my pocket.
Only about three other people wearing masks in the whole store, many of them not troubling in the least to keep 2 metres apart.
A woman in front of me squeezed eight loaves before she found the one she wanted. Luckily the supermarket started wrapping all the bread a while back because of CV.
I explained, very politely, that someone with CV could have touched any one of the eight so she’d just increased her chances of being infected eight times over if other people were squeezing loaves – and, if she was infectious herself, of infecting eight other people.
The woman explained that she had to feel them because she couldn’t pick the best of the eight identical loaves by looking through the clear wrapper.
Johnson’s trying to cull us and there are some people as good as volunteering to be culled.
Humans cannot be culled,only cattle Johnson’s Tory party are murdering us “The elderly and vulnerable” …And I am wondering 😔 who will stop them?
Dear Skwawkbox
Labour is dead and should cease.
Majority membership joined only to vote Jeremy Corbyn as leader.
We should demand all of our membership fees immediately refunded from May 2015 til March 2020 inclusive.
And any donations you made to the Labour party.
Trade unions should cease funding Labour through their political fund, and you should demand your trade union does so.
The around 35 socialist MPs around Jeremy Corbyn should become Independents until a new socialist party forms for them to join, so cannot be purged as bound to happen, out of their MP jobs in parliament.
Momentum should cease having Labour party members as their executive.
An online rally had trade unions talking of public enquiry after the plague ends. Meaning not one life saved now.
Neither does it put food on the table or a roof over your head, when both ever more threatened today.
The vulnerable, the poor, BAME, NHS staff, private care home carers and people dying at home, are all being killed by Tory Boris’ policies on Covid19 and around it.
Labour is betraying each and every excess Covid19 death and should not be getting taxpayers money to pay for MPs who do nothing.
Jeremy Corbyn goes to foodbanks, delivers food parcels, wears the proper full face shield, all should be wearing when out and about.
As an Independent Jeremy Corbyn could take the government to account, as the head of his group of MPs.
Now could be the time to sack the rest of around 166 Labour MPs to pay for PPE for NHS staff and carers in care homes.
Contrary to the findings of ‘expert’ Social Scientists (aka Sociology on steroids), Tony Blair was & again is wrong; the class struggle is not over & that is a self evident truth, even in the Covid 19 pandemic. The poor will always pay, usually with their lives.
Empiricism can be interpreted in as many ways as there are Sociologists in the ‘Science of Society, predicting ; elderly;overweight; Bame; males with an underlying illness are the most vulnerable in this pandemic………but the most powerful observation, often totally ignored by the bourgeoisie is social injustice is a class issue.
See Dr John Campbell. We have a Vitamin D deficiency pandemic.
82% of African Americans are Vitamin D deficient, 42% of Americans overall. See videos for Vitamin D/Immune System/Coronavirus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXNGc7pfs