Analysis comment

SAGE committee now recommends face-masks in public – and govt has not changed public guidance. How many more lives has it cost?

Comment by NI First Minister exposes Tory lie of ‘following the science’ – and guilt of more needless deaths

The Conservative government has not changed its guidance on the wearing of face masks – and has constantly claimed, whenever challenged about any of its decisions or changed decisions, that it always ‘follows the science’ no matter how contrary or strange those decisions have been.

But a throw-away comment today by Northern Ireland First Minister Arlene Foster has revealed that the government’s SAGE committee – the group of scientists advising the government on its response to the pandemic – has already changed its advice and now says that face masks should be worn in public, in settings where social distancing is difficult, such as supermarkets.

Irish broadcaster RTE carried the news:

Arlene Foster and Michelle O’Neill said they are encouraging members of the public to wear face coverings when moving in confined spaces…

Ministers had calls with Northern Ireland Secretary Brandon Lewis and British Prime Minister Boris Johnson today, and will take part in a Cobra emergency response meeting on Sunday.

The First Minister added that specialist advice from the UK’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) had concluded “on balance” to recommend the use of face coverings in circumstances where social distancing is not possible.

Ms Foster did not say how long ago SAGE reached this conclusion, but it’s clear from her statement that the Tories are well aware of the change – and have not passed on new advice to the public, even though SAGE clearly now thinks it will protect the public.

More than a week ago, the BBC reported that:

On 18 April, more than 100 doctors wrote a letter to The Times saying they were “alarmed at official inaction over the need for the public to wear homemade face masks”.

So medical experts have been alarmed for weeks, even months – and went public with their concerns more than a month ago.

The issue of why SAGE and the government ignored the advantages of wearing masks in public for so long – especially when countries such as China and South Korea made it mandatory long ago and have eliminated domestic transmission of the coronavirus – raises the question of how many more people have become infected and how many more lives have been lost because of the delay.

But now that SAGE has finally ‘concluded’ that masks are a good idea, why are Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock still leaving the public unprotected days or even weeks later?

Johnson has already been accused of costing an additional 60,000 lives across the course of this pandemic ‘spike’ by his slowness to act. But now he is heaping guilt upon guilt – and cannot claim that he is ‘following the science’.

The SKWAWKBOX needs your support. This blog is provided free of charge but depends on the generosity of its readers to be viable. If you can afford to, please click here to arrange a one-off or modest monthly donation via PayPal or here for a monthly donation via GoCardless. Thanks for your solidarity so this blog can keep bringing you information the Establishment would prefer you not to know about.

If you wish to reblog this post for non-commercial use, you are welcome to do so – see here for more.


  1. They never followed the science. They never intended to follow positive science. Science is always peer reviewed … open to scrutiny. It is not a fixed or even morphing myth revealed by superior beings🌹🌹🌹

    1. The very day Johnson announced the lockdown, others like me may have seen aircraft flying over central London to land at Heathrow and at City Airport. A Singapore Airlines A380 that very day was heading to Heathrow. It may have been at full capacity 500 +. Not long after came Malaysian Air’s A380. A health care worker and I chatted about the inconsistency of johnson’s words and the lady at the”press briefings.” How odd to have those approx 1000 passengers arrive in just two flights from Asia? There were many other thousands of passengers unchecked, zero quarantine. EIGHTEEN MILLION, One hundred Thousand passengers flying in. 273 checked.

      What is “the science” “followed” allowing that❓ What other government could be so inept❓ Why instead of undermining Jeremy were sabateurs, Starmer, Hodge, Streeting, the Phillips Trevor & knife threatening crude Jess, Faulkner, WMD Bliar … why were they not exposing the negligence of their endorsed Tory clique❓ Why did Jonathan Ashworth not ask his Tory mate “have your chums followed any of the advice re pandemic prep❓

      What virus infects three or four on SB who shamelessly act as giant incontinence pads and urine bags for Starmer❓ Content that Starmer collaborates with Cummings and johnson, laziness, callousness, incompetence and or eugenicist ideology❓ 18.1 million passengers none but 273 tested. Can Starmer explain for johnson❓ Testing at air and sea ports could have been key to keeping loss of life to a minimum. Why is Starmer helping Tories to kill by stealth❓❓❓

      1. FFS give it a rest. Who was the leader of the opposition for the vast majority of this period?

      2. ” Why instead of undermining Jeremy were sabateurs, Starmer, Hodge, Streeting, the Phillips Trevor & knife threatening crude Jess, Faulkner, WMD Bliar … why were they not exposing the negligence of their endorsed Tory clique”

        Now let me think……Ah, could it be because they themselves are Tories.

  2. UK govt obviously picked pliable sub standard scientists. Unlike Germany S. Korea Sweden etc

  3. The government’s EXCUSE was that “people would take more risks” wearing masks and “don’t know how to remove them without infecting themselves.”
    Health workers aren’t instinctively aware of these things either, they’re taught.
    Takes a couple of hours I understand – ordinary people learn far more complicated skills from YouTube videos.
    The government’s REASON was they’d sold off/saved on warehousing all the PPE that used to be stored for just such emergencies as CV19.

    Holding the government to account is about more than just polite questions in the Commons.
    Where their logic is risible our MP’s should call them out on that.
    Preferably forensically, sarcastically and memorably, but above all LOUDLY.
    Please step forward Barry Gardiner and Andy McDonald.

  4. Start with
    The reason we are so unprepared is
    You are not known as the cheap and nasty Tory party for nothing
    You have a visceral hatred of the NHS and have spent 10 years running it into the ground
    Record under investment, never has so little been spent on the few that protect us
    Stocks not replaced or allowed to run out of date despite numerous warnings
    Has Uncle Festa taken the NHS off the table yet
    Methinks not
    Shame on you and everyone who voted for you, people are dying because of you

  5. Ask them to publish the science
    The scientists have no objection
    Ask if ‘burger kings’ report has been peer reviewed and published
    Ask for all minutes of Sage meetings, again none of the scientists object as far as we know
    Run with alternative Sage panel and evidence from Sweden

  6. Prime Minister
    Even by your extremely low standards you have plumbed new depths of hypocrisy in your support for the NHS
    You and the cheap and nasty Tory party you lead gave a visceral hatred of the NHS and you always will
    Have you taken the NHS off the table yet

  7. Sweden
    86% of deaths over 70
    Even they have admitted huge fuck up in care and nursing homes

  8. “How many more lives has it cost?”

    “In all probability – none” – is the answer based on evidence for general mask wearing. See :

    WHO : ‘Overall Result of Evidence on Face Masks ” : ‘Ten RCTs were included in the meta-analysis, and there was no evidence that face masks are effective in reducing transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza. (October 2019)

    Similarly :

    Rancourt :”Masks Don’t Work A review of science relevant to COVID-19 social policy” (April 2020)

    The real rationale is to do with psychology, not evidence.

    1. Interesting relevant paragraph in an essay from the US :

      “All I know is that those in power rely on our acquiescence, and the shortest path to such acquiescence is through fear. Whether it’s sending warplanes over our houses or ordering us to wear surgical masks everywhere we go — a visible message that solidarity kills, that every human being is a threat to every other — I can only say that U.S. officials seem to be going out of their way to scare us all to death.”

  9. SteveH
    A blind man with a shitty stick can see that masks help to prevent transmission
    Are these the same Cockwombles who dont test people flying into the country or returning to care homes
    Delirium definitely settling into this debate

    1. “Delirium definitely settling into this debate”

      It did that a long time ago with the ignoring of evidence.

      “A blind man with a shitty stick can see that masks help to prevent transmission”

      An apt image – the blind claiming to see in contradiction of the evidence to the contrary of imagined reality.

      1. But, but, but, Covid-19 is everywhere, it floats in the air, is on everything and it is gonna get YOU sooner or later. Be very afraid and do as you’re told without question or you will die or cause others to die.

        If you’ve no income or no disposable income and cannot afford the new and improved, ‘guaranteed to save you and others’ Gov mandated mask from Dyson then too bad, you will never be able to leave your home, high rise, flat, one room shoe box again.

        Stay tuned for your next dose of emotional high and fearmongering brought to you from State sponsored PSPs and corporate media who all have your best interests at heart.

        Btw… are there enough ventilators yet? Did Dyson come up trumps?

      2. “Stay tuned for your next dose of emotional high and fearmongering ….”

        And, Maria, we never have to wait long for that next dose.

        I’ve been amazed this past week at a number of things that I’ve heard said coming from sentient human beings who seem to have accepted without question (and then often embellished) the one-sided story and decontextualised numbers pumped out through the government briefings – from a government that is distinguished mainly by being led by a proven notorious liar and manipulator.

        One person expressed dread at going out into her garden. Another hadn’t been out at all.

        Responses that I’ve heard take confirmation bias to unprecedented heights, so that concrete more reassuring evidence is denied – even the very basic fact that Covid-19 is less dangerous than seasonal influenza for the majority of the population aged under 60 and that mortality this year has so far been proportionately lower than all but four of the previous five high epidemic years.

        The degree of indoctrination is amazing – and worrying.

        As to ventilators – a major concern now seems to be about inappropriate over-use of an invasive procedure rather than shortage of the equipment.

      3. RH, adrenaline highs are not just addictive they suppress the immune system and are bad for health generally when delivered at such levels for weeks on end. People already banned from getting vitamin d from sun and general wellbeing from being out doors in good weather… you’d think Gov was engineering an immuno compromised population ready for a ‘second wave’… being indoors for long periods also doesn’t keep our immune systems tuned and functioning to max levels due to lack of exposure to ‘germs’…

        Mechanical ventilators have always had questions of harm v benefit especially in pneumonias and lung conditions. Still most everyone and his (now rusted) bike were screaming for them as a panacea not long ago. Now it’s masks. Gov will be pressured to act whether it wants to or not.
        Now, what happens to those millions of CCTV cameras in the age of mask wearing? They are redundant, ID cards- no good… I know, ID chip implants and cameras converted to chip readers?

        Just for clarity, I do not believe this virus “floats in the air”. I still believe proper hand washing is the most effective way to protect yourself and others.

      4. That comment about immunity is crucial, Maria. Whilst people are consenting to abusive incarceration, their collective immune systems are being compromised by the lack of exposure to everyday infection.

        Meanwhile – despite all predictions courtesy of ICL being spectacularly wrong (and actually innumerate in terms of the known features of infection curves), even the head honcho of the group has fallen over his own feet in demonstrating that even he doesn’t believe in the toss about lockdown.

        Then we have the nonsense about the big business ‘contact tracing app.’ that only the terminally naive (evidently and sadly most of the population) will fall for – whilst Big Pharma rubs its hands in glee.

        Followed by … you’ve got it … the *75th* (what the f. in special about 75?) anniversary of VE day. I remember the consequences of the war and what it meant most days – it was a fact of real life and its consequences – not a tea party) . Seeing it being requisitioned for a propaganda exercise worthy of Goebbels makes me heave. (Remember how the Jews were portrayed as a ‘virus’ to be fought – and the populace assented to their deadly nature?)

        If you can’t smell a propaganda exercise after that, your nose has been requisitioned – and the Tories have you by the short and curlies.

  10. We have been wearing face masks,for months in i.ITs considered a grave insult and a lack of respect for anyone to enter a shop or walk around without one even inviting violence for the offenders Face masks have been part of living here especially if flu or coughing is going around.ITs a bit of a problem somtimes in the blistering heat,but when in Rome?…God save the Queen?..?…Has the knight gone yet?

  11. They’ve bollocksed up just about everything they’ve been tasked with, deliberately and – to paraphrase a favourite excuse of theirs – ‘inadvertently’.

    All without any censure or consequence whatsoever. And STILL people are dying and will continue to die unnecessarily because of their incompetence, indifference and inaction. I’m not expecting any single one of them to face any retribution or offer any atonement for their woeful shiteness.

    And nor is the recumbent, obsequious hugh pym. Spewing government-approved bullshit out on an industrial scale and bending over backwards to convince the elderly – who trust the bbc more than any other age demographic – that the toerags are fucking comicbook superheroes during this crisis.

    We thought kuenssberg and peston were shite enough and you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone worse….But pym?

    There’s your present day lord haw-haw. But instead of being hanged, he’ll be made a knight or peer of the realm.

    1. ”And STILL people are dying and will continue to die unnecessarily because of their incompetence, indifference and inaction. ”

      I forgot to add ‘inaccuracies’ to that list…

    2. The Toffee
      As kids we were forced to say the Lords prayer at end of school day
      So we had the ‘Devils Prayer’ which I can only remember ended ‘Shit Shite Amen’
      Anybody else remember it
      Anyway shit shite amen to all of the above

    3. “But instead of being hanged, he’ll be made a knight or peer of the realm.”
      The one doesn’t necessarily preclude the other – and I’m not talking about a posthumous honour.

  12. The Government has got itself in a double bind. Having taken inadequate action to ger appropriate masks for the staff in the NHS and care home sector it is it a situation whereby any increase in use of masks y the public will exacerbate the shortage of health care and social care works.

    Heartless. Worse than an undisguised Tory. Starmer’s heartlessness exposed last night. He was using his false clapping as a SPIN job‼️ Starmer could be heard rushing the cameraman IMMEDIATELY after one minute‼️ He could not be bothered giving one second more thanking our NHS.

    Many of us on know starmer is bad news. Now the whole world can hear for themselves. Starmer hurries the cameraman with “have you got what you need ???” IMMEDIATELY after 1 minute. 1 second extra, is too much gratitude for the slime ball starmer.
    Don’t expect to hear that on the BBC. Truth is dead there.

    1. Starmer suddenly speaking out about the crisis in care homes. Why has he said nothing on this for the past two months? ‘Closing the gate afrer the horse has bolted’, after thousands have died in care homes, often an awfull death, with staff unable to provide the palative care needed due to lack of access to the required drugs, lack of stafcf, on top of lack of infection control training (as I have observed) . Alarm bells should have been ringing from the start. What a good idea, send covid positive hospital patients to care homes to clear beds! Who came up with that one? We used to have isolation hospitals, but now, the goverment closed so many hospitals that it didn’t stand a chance of keeping some hospitals virus free (in principle) to deal with other health issues.

      1. Carlene, i agree, but it is now in the open that re: “goverment closed so many hospitals that it didn’t stand a chance “. The govt did not want a chance to save lives. “Herd Immunity” was their political choice. They thought the general public would be bamboozled by the Nightingale makeshift hospitals and words “following the science” etc et etc. All along doing tbe very opposite. Many understandably may have assumed post early o’clock on were unbelievable… no govt could be so callous… no opposition “leader” even starmer would collaborate with them. It is unbelievable but sadly true.

  14. KIER STARMER exposed for all to see what he is. Starmer exposed why he is not trusted.
    A live mic caught him at his cheap tricks.

    IMMEDIATELY after his clap on the dot, dull dim dire starmer six faced mould of slimy jell whispered to the cameraman –

    “have you got what you need ?”

    “Have You Got What You Need??”


    FEEL the WORTHLESSNESS of the slime ball.

    IMMEDIATELY after 1 minute of posturing… pretending to care for those on the frontline…1 second extra, is too much gratitude for the slime ball starmer.

    FEEL the dishonesty of the slime. If you wish to spend your time doing something else, and an extra minute is too much, then surely sincerely wish those present well and depart.

    Starmer’s question reveals his concern … his focus … his CONSCIOUS PRIORITY. His priority is to be seen clapping. There is not a milligram of care nor gratitude. Get “what YOU need” to show me clapping and jog on.

    SHOW ME CLAPPING. Deceive the many and jog on. ONE second after his pretence at caring for the NHS. Could anyone imagine the 24 hour intense coverage that would have been devoted to this, if it were Jeremy or Dianne who was caught being 1/1000 as despicable and heartless❓❓❓
    You would have had no need to read it on We must realise the necessity to combat the rightwing narratives lies and myths. It won’t happen by some miracle. WE must do it. We must come down from the theoretical clouds and change the BASICS that need changing. Let people know every day every hour that no good has ever come of the one minute clapper starmer. USE and Display foresight NOW or there are a few even on SB who will revise facts to claim no one predicted the bad news of starmer. They will. That is their instruction and they do it well. We must come down from the clouds and do battle in this REAL WORLD. We have up to 2019 failed dreadfully at that. It is a failure and a shameful inexcusable one to fail to learn, change, try different methods. We know the tired torn tried methods, employed it seem only by those who never win, except by rare MIRACLES … ACCIDENTS out of their control. And even then, so stubborn and stuck and habituated to failure, when the most spectacular miracle of opportunity occurs … when the most precious of favourable accidents occur… so accustomed to being praised for and cocooned by “symbolic” words that the urgent action to seize and run with the miracle is shunned … sat on. So accustomed to useless action, and inexplicable inaction, too many have learnt to believe that there is nothing they can do to change things. Too many sincerely believe, despite observing the remarkable successes of others, that they can’t succeed. OTHERS won’t allow them to succeed. That is why it is important to face facts and say it as we see it. Otherwise the same inactions and bizarre actions to SAVE, PROTECT and STRENGTHEN the saboteurs will happen again. And people will indulge in more pipe dreams of founding by some yet unseen magic, a perfect party of perfect people that could withstand the same MSM, the same Right and the same infiltrators.

    The Right stayed when all seemed lost for them, and regained control because it was given to them. FACT. They hardly fought for it. They had the sense to remain. Maybe they understood us better than we do ourselves. They can definitely see that too many of us refuse to learn. The rest of us just have to get on with it. Wish those who wish to form their perfect party of perfect people in a perfect world. They mean well. The rest of us who face the facts of THIS WORLD, and the facts of how people … WE are, must work to improve ourselves, OUR attitudes, OUR Branches, OUR CLPs, OUR PARTY. 🌹🌹🌹

    1. signpostnotwindchimes – What a load of bollocks, I guess some are so blinded by their personal agenda that they only see what they want to see.

      “The cameraman who Keir was actually speaking to said this

      “I’m that cameraman he was talking to – he asked me as a way to clear the path to bring his daughter over from across the road.”

    2. signpostnotwindchimes – plus you are completely ignoring the front page of today’s Telegraph who’s banner front-page headline is

      Sir Keir Starmer: We owe it to VE Day generation to protect them from coronavirus in care homes
      Labour leader calls for better support for elderly as ministers face backlash over virus infections

    3. signpostnotwindchimes – plus ignoring the article written by Keir Starmer. on the inside pages.

      How is your attack on Keir Starmer any different from the nonsense attacks on Jeremy for not bowing enough etc

      The lesson of VE Day is that despite the scale of the challenge, a better future is possible

      This year’s VE Day celebrations will be very different. The coronavirus means there will be no parades, no street parties, no church services and no memorial at the Cenotaph. Today we cannot be together, but we can still remember together.

      We remember the millions of people from towns, cities and villages across the United Kingdom who fought and died for our country’s shared values. The values of democracy, tolerance and freedom for all.

      And we remember that our victory was not ours alone. It was a victory forged by international cooperation.

      We remember, too, those who rebuilt and renewed our country in the hard years that followed 1945. They built homes for millions, expanded education and founded the National Health Service. Across the world, international alliances were forged and human rights strengthened….

    4. In the space of ONE post signpost says the following:

      “… dull dim dire starmer six faced mould of slimy jell”

      “FEEL the WORTHLESSNESS of the slime ball.”

      “1 second extra, is too much gratitude for the slime ball starmer.”

      “FEEL the dishonesty of the slime”

      And THAT was just in the first part of his post! How old are you signpost, cos you come across as a demented eleven year-old! He then says – and acknowledges as such – that had it been Jeremy or Diane the MSM would have been relentlessly all over it, BUT then goes on to spout his usual diatribe as in “We must realise the necessity to combat the rightwing narratives lies and myths”, and does so knowing full well that there IS no way to ‘combat’ the lies and fabrications and smears of the corporate MSM, because they are hardy going to give space to anyone exposing the very lies and falsehoods that THEY have conspired in disseminating. I mean what further proof does anyone need other than the way the MSM spun the leaked report so as to reflect negatively on Jeremy and Jennie Formby and the staff who put it all together. Oh, and HERE’s a selection from a signpost post a few days ago:

      ‘turd worm of Dire Stoma Starmer’

      ‘jonnie Arseworthless’

      ‘slime ball’

      ‘…. now they have the cream-pied turd worm – Jonathan Arseworthless’

      I mean REALLY signpost, how old are you?!

      PS As for the right staying when all seemed lost to them, what complete and utter testicles, as is your false assertion that it was given to them. You just make it up as you go along, and it obviously comes naturally to you – creating false ‘realities’ just like the corporate MSM et al do!

  15. The only science that HMG follows is the anti-science called capitalist ideology and its transcendent need to lie, spiv, exploit and make a profit.

    1. qwertboi, 08/05/2020 AT 8:44 PM Totally agree with you that “The only science that HMG follows is the anti-science called capitalist ideology and its transcendent need to lie, spiv, exploit and make a profit.” The same “science” Sir Kier Starmer follows. So we must return the support he gave “working night and day” with WMD Bliar and Mandelson to “Stop Corbyn” and make us lose the election. We need to return his support. It is our duty. Dump starmer’s garbage support. And SH its devoted logic repellent, Sh its devoted persistent troll… dump it too.

      1. signpostnotwindchimes – It’s not my fault that your fact checking doesn’t seem to extend beyond Daily Mail headlines, however I am surprised by how little faith you have in either Jeremy’s judgement or his leadership skills.

      2. SteveH08/05/2020 AT 10:08 PM

        ”It’s not my fault that your fact checking doesn’t seem to extend beyond Daily Mail headlines”

        Says you – after posting links to the torygraph, the bbc and the daily excess on this very thread.

        Turn it in, clown.

      3. Toffee = Don’t be ridiculous. I was linking to actual evidence that the accusations were untrue. Evidence by a first hand witness who was actually involved in the conversation. The links to the Telegraph were to evidence that Starmer had spoken out on the subject.

        Are you claiming that the cameraman is lying or that the articles in the Telegraph don’t exist.

      4. ‘Nonsense’ he says.

        While without any trace or notion of hypocrisy, or irony, or shame* he freely quotes from the bbc, the torygraph, and the daily excess without fact checking any of them himself.

        *Chance’d be a fine thing. Claimed to be a supporter of corbynist policies, voted starmer. ’nuff said.

      5. Toffee – Yes I voted for Keir Starmer as did many other members who had also voted for Jeremy on both occasions. Given the candidates on offer who would you have recommended I vote for.

        As for the rest of your nonsense have you any actual evidence (not a repetition of your rants) that any evidence that I have linked to is a lie.

        Have you an issue with people informing themselves by reading from a wide range of sources.

      6. We KNOW you voted starmer. It’s your badge of pride F complete and utter FS.

        WE KNOW. It’s not something people claiming to encompass socialist values would beat their chests about. Yet YOU DO.

        We also know that you were going to vote for starmer come what may, so why you bother with your ‘best of a bad bunch’ weaselly tripe making as though you did so through ”Hobson’s choice” is anyone’s guess.

        You did it knowingly and of your own volition. Oh, sure – You claimed you were a supporter of Corbynism, but starmer’s ‘toerag-lite’ & Corbynism are chalk & cheese, as is universally and undisputedly accepted.

        You are a bigger, much more mouthy advocate for starmer than you EVER were for Corbyn. Your God-damned cowardly, acquiescence over starmer’s shithousery in losing the election and getting Corbyn ousted is on YOUR toes.

        YOU gave us this toerag government. YOU and the rest of the snidey, conniving, careerist, establishment shitbags in that party that nothing will happen to, even though they conspired to LOSE an election.

        Like it or not – YOU are complicit in that, so don’t you fucking DARE preach to anyone about anything.

      7. Toffee – Oh dear, yet another all too predictable rant.
        I asked you elsewhere on this page that given the candidates on offer who would you have recommended that I voted for in the leadership elections.

      8. How about ABSTENTION instead of bemoaning the choices on offer, sadsack?

        You’re kidding NOBODY that you voted starmer as best of a bad bunch. You were ALWAYS going to vote for him and you’re deluded almost to the point of schizophrenia if you think anyone’s convinced otherwise.

        Oh..Hang on, I might’ve forgotten something…let’s see…Oh, I know what it is, now…You were using your DEMOCRATIC right, weren’t you? The same one you weren’t offered about changing the promise to respect the referendum result?

      9. The Toffee (597) at 7:50 pm
        “How about ABSTENTION instead of bemoaning the choices on offer, sadsack? “

        Which just goes to show what a sad irrelevance you really are. We all vote for many reasons, including voting against candidates that you don’t want to succeed. Besides my vote being a positive vote for the best candidate on offer it was also a vote against Nandy and Little Becky.

      10. @signpost.

        I’m addressing the ‘corbynist starmerite’* AKA steve h.

        (*Apparently, there IS such a thing; next thing you know there’ll be fascist commies)

      11. Thanks Toffee, as new readers desperate for incisive analysis, insight, foresight and scrutiny of important goings on, they may be confused. The chats are not always in sequence. We must make it as easy as possible for all, especially those who may not have met such as Sh… it could put them off if they were mistaken that when he is having one of his many turdy Tory turns, we agree with Sh… it could put them off.

  16. Stop the propoganda bollocks as you call it StevieH….Starmer “the knight” colluded with the Johnson regime to murder my brother in the most horrible circumstances and many other brothers and sisters are part of his inaction and wilfully negligence in acting as a conduit for murder of the elderly and vulnerable people Your bolloxed up knight like Johnson,cummings Hancock and all the other dispicable enablers will answer for the planned experiment to move Austerity from murder to genocide.Get back in your hole and cut out the propoganda ,you and imbeciles like you have got the knight you wanted now share the guilt of your right wing cronys. “We will remember them” and will see a day of reckoning.

    1. Joseph – Whilst I empathise with your loss I am struggling to how your brother’s death has anything to do with Starmer. The Tories own this crisis and why you should seek to extend that reproducibility to the Labour party is beyond comprehension. Are you so blinded by your personal hatred for Starmer that you want to let Johnson off the hook.

      1. Are you so blinded by your personal hatred for Starmer that you want to let Johnson off the hook.

        That the best you can do for your beloved knight; The very same knight that’s already let de piffle off the hook just about every day he’s held the leadership position, F total and utter FS??

        I’ll bet he forever thanks his lucky stars that you’ve got his back.

        The enemy of my enemy doesn’t make them my friend. Dogshite is no more preferable to cowshite.

      2. Toffee – “Dogshite is no more preferable to cowshite”

        I would argue the contrary. Given the choice of having to step in either a dog turd or a cow-pat I would choose the vegetarian cow’s waste every time.

  17. I liked the idea of visors or at least face masks but please put key workers first!
    We can make do & cover faces if needed.
    Just reflecting on VE Day, you almost get the feeling that it is depoliticised when it was a victory of Western democracies in partnership with the USSR against facism!
    I am lucky and have access to a university modern history library and from my reading it is argued that the UK was able to call upon millions of Commonwealth citizens which helped tipped the balance to victory but until recent years sadly particularly those from BME backgrounds ffrom the Commonwealth were written out of history.
    And a brilliant analysis of the Gernan economy under the Nazis showed that if it hadn’t been for the ferocious fight back by the Soviet Union the Nazis had in place plans for 10m concentration camp victims.
    The reality was a victory for internationalism which pethaps in current times offers hope!

  18. But HERE’S the winner…It could ONLY have come from the wacky world of steve h

    SteveH08/05/2020 AT 10:19 PM

    ”Are you so blinded by your personal hatred for Starmer that you want to let Johnson off the hook.”

    …Because career starmer’s been a holy fucking terror to de piffle since becoming labour party leader, hasn’t he?


    1. Toffee – you are of course entitled to your opinion not matter how narrow minded and misguided it may be.

      1. The only people I know (bar yourself) that’s anywhere’s near remotely satisfied with starmer’s servile, snivelling, subvirate performances thus far, is the toerags and bliarites.

Leave a Reply

%d bloggers like this: