Analysis comment

Sky News presenter breaks down in tears as she reads names of C-19 victims

Kimberley Leonard overwhelmed by human cost of pandemic

Sky News presenter Kimberley Leonard broke down in tears today as she presented some of the personal stories of the victims of the coronavirus pandemic.

The moved anchor managed to make it through the segment, but only just:

Every one of the more than 20,000 UK deaths is a human being with his or her own story. That human cost must not be obscured by the government’s spin, misdirection, blame-dodging and attempts to talk down its guilt.

There must be a reckoning.

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    1. Each name should be read out on every radio and TV station, daily at 08:00 and 20:00hrs. No more Thursday noise. Listen to the names of healthcare professionals who have died because of the government’s political decisions. They had to make choices. They have made, and are making deadly ones.

      1. Were such a thing to happen, the news report would take hours and hours. The FT is stating that as of Saturday, approximately 41,000 souls have lost their lives to covid19.

        We’d need a jim Bowen (“here’s what you could have won”, Bullseye) comment to point out the MUCH smaller number that would have been lost if we’d had a less incompetent Government.

      2. qwertboi, that’s only one excellent reason to ensure “such a thing” happens. The MSM, “news” is nothing of the sort. It is pure myth preserving propaganda. Though the FT is correct ie aporox 40 thousand extra deaths on top of the 20,000. Very tragic times for the many grieving.

    1. Gutless and Chinless signed off Landsman Health Reforms even though neither had a Scooby Doo what they were

  1. True, yet even before that. eg the privatisation by stealth of the NHS. The failure of successive Tory governments, including WMD Blair, to correct deficiencies re dealing with a pandemic. One was overdue.
    Their dismantling of our manufacturing capacity DELIBERATELY, sacrificed at their altar of the The City charlatans left us vulnerable to not being able to manufacture all PPE swiftly. This situation is a direct result of political choices and ideology. The creatures Peter Mandelson & its attached sub creature WMD Blair, feast on this tragedy. Cummings and his johnson are as one with Mandelson and WMD Blair. That’s why the smarmy, slimy repellant snot covered slithering warmongering bit of filth, endorsed Johnson at the General Election. There is indeed a special place in Hell for War Criminal WMD Tony Bliar and the rest of their disgusting Tory cabal. 🌹🌹🌹

  2. One thing is certain: the 41.000 or so victims of COVID19 so far claimed would not be so numerous if the Government mobilised the necessary testing capacity and dropped its commitment to Dominic Cummings reckless “heard immunity” fantasy.

    1. indeed qwertboi, Tories alas may only adjust their plans after public pressure.
      p.s. FT’s 41,000 deaths is, in my opinion, in addition to the 20,000 NHS hospital deaths.

      Do you know that obvious Covid-19 patients have been and are STILL being barred from hospital. Hence make shift morgues in carparks etc, and govt ones on two ice skating rinks, body bags have run out in some hospitals.

      NHS hospital staff are begging undertakers for scarce body bags. Some bodies are just wrapped in sheets which is AGAINST infection control policies for Covid-19, according to ANY “science”… even cummings’ & johnson’s.

      I’v heard of a heartbreaking incident in the community where someone died of this horrific disease. The undertakers were not allowed to handle the infectious body. So sad to relate that the shocked and bereaved family were handed a bodybag and the relatives had to put their loved one in it. Then bring the body downstairs themselves to the undertaker’s vehicle.
      That deceased loved one should have been hospitalised.

      The families grief as you can imagine, is more acute because of the untimely and horrible circumstances. continues as there is a backlog of burials and cremations.

      This is the Tory tragedy which WMD Blair, Arsetair Campbellend, Jack Straw, Charlie Faulkner and the MSM et al, preferred, enabled and endorsed. Therefore, they all deserve to rot forever in the most hellish of hells.

      1. And who is counting those dying at home of this desease? There was a case in the news last week of a father who self isolatedcfrom his family in his bedroom due to symtoms. He joked the day before that they shouldn’t treat him like he was on death’s door. He thought he was recovering but was found dead next morning by his young daughter. Many elderly who have carers attending to them at home may not have made it to hospital before dying of this desease.
        When it comes on to care homes, here we see an example of how and whether deaths from covid 19 are not being

        ‘A nursing home has seen the “catastrophic” death of 15 residents in a month, its manager has said.

        Fourteen of the elderly residents at Tregwilym Lodge in Rogerstone, Newport, had symptoms of Covid-19, but none of them were tested.
        Mrs Healey, who has been a nurse for 40 years, said Covid-19 was cited as a cause of death on two residents’ death certificates, but 14 had coughs and high temperatures’

        Unable to post the link for some reason (is this an Android thing?) The article is on BBC website under Wales, it’s a Newport care home, lost 15 residents in a month.

      So much for ‘Herd Immunity’. The WHO says ‘
      there was “no evidence” that people who had developed antibodies after recovering from the virus were protected against a second infection.’ (As yet). And yet the Tories were prepared to place so much of their stratergy on this, even now.
      What did the WHO say?
      “There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from Covid-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection,” the WHO said in a briefing note.

      Most studies carried out so far showed that people who had recovered from infection had antibodies in their blood – but some of these people had very low levels of antibodies.’

  3. Their has got to be a day of reckoning,and that day of reckoning in the international courts must be done in veiw of the whole world to show that planned murder is still murder in the eyes of the world..A cultural change happened whilst we were congratulating our surge in Socialism in Britain and many of the victims voted for this criminal government and some even voted for a establishment knight led laughably described opposition party.IF Johnson’s government is allowed to get away with this then governments across the world will be given a green light to dispose of the non productive and vunerable part of the population especially if it seems that includes a substantial and compliant section of the population who have lost all sense of morality and decency.and support them in this New Britain.

  4. We shouldn’t forget that many of the NHS staff who have died were first generation immigrants which means that their surviving dependants as well as coping with their grief may also face the additional trauma of deportation on top of not being entitled to the same death in service payments or the same pension provision that their indigenous collogues families would receive.

    Claudia Webb
    “In the current system, if an NHS worker tragically dies due to work related illnesses, the future of their dependent family members living in the UK is not guaranteed. This means vulnerable individuals could face deportation whilst grieving for their loved one.”

    “For many migrant NHS professionals, the stress of potential ill health, and even death, is compounded by the fact that their family members are not guaranteed a future in the UK. This reveals both the heroism of our NHS workers, and the cruelty of the current immigration system.”

    “It does not seem fair or just to expect migrant NHS professionals to risk their lives for a country in which their dependent family does not have a permanent future. I urge the government to take this opportunity to honour the dedication and sacrifice of all NHS workers, no matter their country of birth.”

  5. Twenty forty thousand people die public outcry
    Whot happened to those claiming benefits 97000
    Died so the dwp said after it was clawed out of them
    We now double that figure when it was dragged out of them way back now that figures bigger now add the two together we have far far to many who lost their lives because they give us austerity and more now we pay the price alot with their lives we allowed to be manipulated by these thiefs

  6. Migrant’s hmm look at may she turned it into a art
    Just look at the windrush generation sent back untill
    Someone said about it it’s now sweeped under the carpet do you really think this lot won’t do underhanded trick to see them off

  7. The numbers of people who have died is always tragic for their families and friends as the vast majority of people know. However, how many of the people who died actually died strictly from the Corona 19 virus?, how many had primary underlying health problems such as cancer, heart disease and a myriad of other age or health issues which people have ( unfortunately) with or without the virus and die from every year regardless of this virus or not ? . Moreover, how many death certificates are saying the cause of death was the Corona 19 virus when it was not. Lastly, the draconian lockdown measures to prevent the spread of it, which statistically does not effect the vast majority of the population, being applied in the U.K., yet, it’s not being applied in Sweden but cases per 100,000 are significantly lower than the U.K.?

    1. Every death is personal to those connected. But that apples equally to deaths from other viruses and accidents in any year.

      What is peculiar to this year are the social measures taken and the granting of extraordinary powers to the government, the degree of fear, panic and exaggeration that has been spread.

      A summary

      “Deaths in the UK have risen sharply in recent weeks, but are still in the range of the strongest flu seasons of the last fifty years.. In the UK, too, up to 50% of additional deaths occur in nursing homes, which do not benefit from a general lockdown.”

      The latter sentence hardly confirms that there is a suppression of news about the problems in nursing homes relating to patients’ extreme susceptibility (also in other countries) – since everyone knows about it and even the poodle Beeb is running stories. I can’t work out this need to manufacture wild conspiracy theories when the issues around nursing homes – their funding and staffing etc. – are long-standing problems – as is the supply of equipment. It’s these issues that are relevant in the political sphere, not exaggerated notions about willful ‘culling’ and ‘murder’

      1. – Deaths in the UK have risen sharply in recent weeks, but are still in the range of the strongest flu seasons of the last fifty years. –

        That’s as maybe, which I’m not disputing as a statistic but not in any of those years have we had social distancing measures such as we have currently.

        Nor did we have them during the ‘Hong Kong’ flu epidemic in the late 60s, which I remember only too well having caught that one myself and would most definitely not wish to repeat the experience.

    2. – Lastly, the draconian lockdown measures to prevent the spread of it, which statistically does not effect the vast majority of the population, being applied in the U.K., yet, it’s not being applied in Sweden but cases per 100,000 are significantly lower than the U.K.? –

      Depends where the stats are coming from. According to worldometers Sweden has 1,846 cases/million, while UK has 2,186 cases/million. So not too much difference there.

      UK also has a much higher population density of 710/sq mile (Sweden has only 70/sq mile) along with much higher levels of CO2 air pollution by land area, although per capita is almost identical. It would surely follow that the more noxious N2O is far worse in the UK than Sweden.

      1. I have read it and the Swiss propaganda which examine critically the nonsense been spoon fed by the MSM, State Broadcaster about the Corona 19 to the public.

      2. brianbotou – Are you claiming that Covid-19 doesn’t qualify as a pandemic, if so could you explain why?

  8. …and they mocked Corbyn for talking about individuals suffering and dying under Tory regimes policies at PMQs. No disrespect to those who died or their grieving families but this is blatant propaganda and crocodile tears designed to keep the public in a heightened emotional state and afraid, two states that ensure critical thinking goes out the window and public easy to manipulate.

    A reminder about propaganda also known these days as public relations.

    1. I haven’t seen much questioning comment about the propaganda exercise conducted in plain sight every day and called a ‘Briefing’.

      It is interesting that there are rumours about enhanced psyops using the military’s capacity *just* at the time when the initial panic scenario fostered over Covid-19 is being increasingly questioned as more real-time data emerges, and excessive government powers are increasingly questioned on grounds of both principle and practicality.

    2. One of the reasons that the Swedes have a lower incidence of Corona virus, despite not having draconian lockdown ( enforced incarceration) measures is of a superior health service because of more money spent on it in but also their testing system has been more extensive and thorough than the UKs.

      Furthermore, the incidence of Corona virus is possibly lower than the UK per 100,000 is because the accommodation for the vast majority of people is superior to the UK in terms of affordability, size and not living in Dickensian conditions which many have to endure.

      Moreover, the social security system is superior to the UK or the US which both have some of the highest number of cases. Nevertheless, the true number of people dying solely from the disease is not being differentiated from those who would die from primary conditions ie Cancer, strokes and a myriad of other diseases which effect mainly the old.

      Therefore, the daily fatality figures trotted out daily do not accurately reflect what the true situation is to a pandemic which has called for by the World Health organization whose overwhelming majority funding comes from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation plus the giant international pharmaceutical corporations who are trying to push for a compulsory vaccine which benefits whom the most?

      Lastly, the prognosis for the estimated numbers of the virus in the UK innitially came from Professor Ian Ferguson of Imperial College London, whose modeling of the numbers was recommended by the WHO organisation and he is also funded by the BAMGF.

      Unfortunately, Professor Fergusons record on the modeling of pandemics has been found to be less than accurate. For example, the 2001 foot and mouth epidemic was way out in the numbers who would die from it. He predicted that upto 50,000 people would die from it in the end it was 178. In 2005 he predicted upto 200 000,000 people would die from Bird flu in the world by 2006 78 people died. In 2009 he stated that upto 65,000 people would die in the UK from Swine flu in the end it was 457. Now in 2020, Ferguson and Imperial college have released a report that 500,000 Britons could die from Covid 19.

      To read more on Professor Ferguson and Imperial college woefully inadequate predictions plus its links to giant pharmaceutical corporations and the BAMGF and why the UK government is so quick to accept his and Imperial Colleges recommendations read ” Who controls the British Government response to Covid -19?|UK Column

      1. Thanks for that considered post, brianbotou – particularly on the issue of Feguson’s pretty dubious record in terms of projections, and the funding links of ICL.

        There are a lot of things coming together around the calalyst of this Corona-19 epi/pandemic, and some of the major issues and alternative pieces of evidene don’t get anywhere near the MSM.

        Anyone with a bit of nous should question highly the Official/MSM narrative that is being pumped out – particularly as we *know* the role of fictional narratives during the last election. There is a direct line between tose earlier falsifications and what you will hear in the daily Covid brifings : they are both heavily propagandized.

        Look at the Guardian main stories, for instance – and then think about how the paper became subservient to the security consensus after the Snowden afair – under the editorship of Viner.

        Anyone with a bit of an enquiring nature can then (or at least for now) look at comparative *actual* figures in relation to the projection of doomsday, and ask the question ‘What the f….?”

        And a look at the WHO’s own analytical meta-report on possible measures to mitigate influenza epi/pandemics is really worth a look when asking ‘What the f….?’. It doesn’t provide definitive solutions – but is pretty clear on which measures *aren’t*. See :

      2. – One of the reasons that the Swedes have a lower incidence of Corona virus [to the UK] –

        Except, as I responded to your earlier post, there isn’t that much difference per 100,000 of population – it’s only about 35 according to their own official figures. That in a country whose population density is one tenth that of the UK and with nowhere on the scale and density of major urban areas such as London, Birmingham, Manchester, etc..

        What would perhaps be more relevant is comparing it with the other Scandinavian countries, all of which are in lockdown, where it comes in at a slightly higher proportion of infections per million of population to Denmark (5x pop. density) and Norway (0.6x density), while over twice that of Finland (0.7x density).

        In numbers of deaths recorded, however, it is way higher than all of them at around 150% of their combined total by proportion per million of population, or 2 and a half times the combined total in the actual number of recorded deaths.

      3. brianbotou
        You will never get figures for fatalities with Covid19 as opposed to fatalities from Covid19
        And trying to compare with other countries is equally unrealistic
        You just need to keep asking the questions and follow your instinct
        Will say it again all we have achieved to date is to buy time for an NHS that was already on its knees
        So that’s more to do with face saving for fuckers who have run the NHS into the ground and plan to sell what’s left to Trumpton
        Once we come out of lockdown there will be a second wave unless we encourage herd immunity

      4. brianbotou 26/04/ at 8:29 pm
        …. there is a very important point why it is difficult to get figures which demonstrate how many deaths are caused solely by Corona 19 and those that died regardless of having it because the primary cause was not Corona 19.

        Perhaps the difficulty arises from the the fact that the elderly and frail seldom die from only one cause.

        You can dance around all you like on the head of a pin as to the precise causes of death but it will provide very little comfort to those facing an early death due to their immune systems being overwhelmed. It would be absolutely nonsense to argue that the deaths of many thousands hasn’t been hastened by contracting a viral infection that their immune systems are completely unprepared to combat. Why are you opposed to vaccines?

  9. Another day of deaths in excess of normal levels. FACT these are the highest number of fatalities since the late 60’s. Furthermore, the excess number of deaths, is our reliable guide to direct and indirect Covid-19 deaths. Studying the EXCESS deaths may make it easier re the confusion/challenge some have re: annual flu deaths and other morbidities. Yes, the Tories find ethics challenging…. hmmm … no! Too euphemistic. Tories DON’T do ethics. Tories can’t do ethics. It is not in their DNA. Things are precious to them, not lives.🌹🌹🌹

  10. Ok. A news presenter starts whimpering about a few coronavirus deaths…

    Just wait until our indomitable dear leader finally returns to work tomorrow, following his death-defying, fearless, traumatic, ultimately gloriously triumphant battle with the bug that’s killed thousands, and will kill thousands more that – unlike him – are weak-willed and were at death’s door anyway.

    You’ll see the army of media sycophants getting the fucking flags out for the blag merchant.

    ”There must be a reckoning”

    There already IS one. I reckon that sod-all will happen to those who have been (purposefully) utterly shite during this disaster.

    What do you reckon?

    1. Toffee – It’s not often that I agree with you.

      The Tories are already attempting to rewrite history. They’re denying that they were warned about their failure to act and are now busy framing the narrative that it is all too easy for their critics to be wise with the benefit of hindsight.

  11. Toffee, 20,000 deaths in NHS hospitals alone, is not “a few coronavirus deaths”. These excess deaths are DIRECT results of TORY SICK IDEOLOGY with twinned CRIMINAL Negligence…. speaking of which a Boeing 777 just flew overhead to Heathrow. Where from Lahore. Another will 777 will fly over in two minutes, to Heathrow from Shanghai. And a 787 right behind it from Shanghai‼️‼️‼️ What the hell is going on with this govt⁉️⁉️⁉️ Were any of the passengers screened before boarding? Will they be screened on arrival at Heathrow???

    This incompetent and negligent government was enabled by Keir Starmer. These AVOIDABLE deaths are partly his responsibility. “JOINT ENTERPRISE” with the other wrecking saboteurs with their “Stop Corbyn” plot.

    And the “Stop Corbyn Campaign” WITHIN the Labour Party, led by a few, included “DEATH THREATS”. Better late than never, at last the NEC may have referred these grave allegations to the police.

    Anyone heard during the last FOUR years, Jess Phillips, Keir Starmer, Emily Thornbury, David Lammy, Straw, Blunket, Faulkner… any of them speaking up about “death threats”❓ ❓ ❓ No. me neither. 🌹🌹🌹

  12. PW, you are missing the point entirely. “ ….it’s only about 35…”. Hmm, the Swedes have achieved a lower figure of a multitude of 35 per 100,000 ( every incidence is precious) without the draconian anti democratic incarceration ( lockdown).

    Now, the variables you enter to your reasons why the Swedes have achieved this belies the fact that they have, especially, when you consider the fact that Stockholm is equivalent to the population of Birmingham yet has an infection rate approximately not more than Birmingham.Just to reiterate , without the draconian anti democratic incarceration procedures.

    Furthermore, you have omitted the facts that the Corona fatalities are neither being differentiated with caused solely by the Corona 19 virus or the facts the UK government have based their strategies on estimates from a man plus organisation that has demonstratively proven to have made widely false estimates.

  13. Doug, there is a very important point why it is difficult to get figures which demonstrate how many deaths are caused solely by Corona 19 and those that died regardless of having it because the primary cause was not Corona 19.

    Moreover, there is a direct coordinated edict by a number of countries( including the U.K.) not to show the cause of death was not from the virus. The link between the international pharmaceutical giants, including the Glaxo plus Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, that funds overwhelmingly the WHO organisation ( many of the leading members are supported directly by them) and the proclamation of pandemic has a supply and demand causation. Eg the cost of vaccines.

    In regards to the NHS, the ruling classes fear more than anything the great unwashed. Hence the empty rhetoric by them and their allies in the democratic socialist Labour Party supporting and praising it.

    Always judge by deeds and not words and as we know both of these have found wanting. It will be quite a struggle with the organs of propaganda ( the MSM, State Broadcaster etc) to twist the narrative to turn water into wine.

      1. Tired Steve?

        Were you aware that Gates quit being the boss of Microsoft this year? Three days after getting a wedge of cash from a group including MasterCard…

      2. Just to reiterate for any people who are lacking the ability to distinguish hyperbole from facts, the WHO organisation is mostly funded from international pharmaceutical corporations. It’s leading officials are sponsored by them. Professor Ferguson and Imperial College, who have made numerous false estimates in the past concerning fatalities from diseases, are sponsored by them and the pandemic was based on their “ estimates “ and taken up by a number of countries including the U.K. Cui Bono!

  14. Never voting Labour again, it’s always amusing when people use the term “ conspiracy theories “ without any reference to why, who and for what purpose they became so common in articles. It’s always an indicator of a distinct lack of rational in people who have to use this, to misquote Orwell, Newspeak, term in order to avoid any counter arguments to what they object to in their use of the term “ conspiracy theories “. A paucity of thought is often the reason! The response you received to a valid question is but one example of it.

    1. FFS – Get a grip. What is the size of the world market for vaccines and what percentage of the world pharmaceutical market does this represent.

      1. FFS, get a grip? A grip of what exactly? Reality? The truth?

        You’re aware of Gates parents? Particularly the father? You’re aware of Gate’s history in Africa working with the WHO? You’re aware that the WHO has secretly sterilised people? Or the huge amount of nasty side effects suffered by Africans?

        Gates now has the opportunity to truly go global.

        I’m really beginning to struggle with you being so naive. It’s fake.

      2. Isn’t it bizarre to be branded “Trump-esque” in merely pointing out the obvious? Just as it is to be branded “conspiracy theorist”. Pussies always pull that one when they want to blot a reality out which is just a bit too scary!

      3. timfrom – No amount of attempting to project your own gullibility onto others is going to mitigate either your own stupidity or the real life consequences of the suffering and death caused by your fuckwit anti-vaccine conspiracy theories.

      4. Would you brand anyone who draws breath “Trump-esque”, just because he does that too? Don’t be idiotic. And the only person endangered by my vaccine-skepticism would be myself and I’m fine with that.

      5. imfrom 27/04/2020 at 5:04 pm
        Would you brand anyone who draws breath “Trump-esque”, just because he does that too?
        No, I reserve that particular accolade for those proselytising palpable nonsense

        Don’t be idiotic. And the only person endangered by my vaccine-skepticism would be myself and I’m fine with that.
        That’s all well and good providing you are idiotic enough to ignore that the effectiveness of vaccines is dependant on the vast majority of the population being immunised.

    2. Sometimes it is easier veiwing from the “outside” looking in IT is clear from observation across world news that includes Communists Socialist and neo liberals that their is more going on I than just a virus.We have seen mainly Neo liberals government take advantage of a situation that includes a social experiment on population , “control” .Usually confined to the Communist country and right wing dictatorships..We are in this country seeing crimes against humanity and have been for a long time before the virus.ever emerged,they have just extended the number of victims.The really depressing part is that although “Control” is being extended across the world the UK is unique in having all of the main partys united in neo liberal ideology and leaves us nowhere to go.That is a very dangerous position for any country to be in.and leaves the population boxed in a corner with very few options left open to respond……The answer may well be in the streets if this type of politics carrys on .

    3. Beginning to suspect SteveH is 77th brigade…

      @Brian, 👏👏👏

      1. Either that or swallowing everything the right wing billionaire controlled MSM plus the State Broadcaster pumps out as “ news”.

      2. brianbotou – No amount of attempting to project your own gullibility onto others is going to mitigate either your own stupidity or the real life consequences of the suffering and death caused by your fuckwit anti-vaccine conspiracy theories.

      3. @SteveH

        Either gullible fuckwit (your words)?
        Troll (77th brigade? Labour HQ?)?

        Who are Snopes? Who told you they were to be trusted? You’re aware that Snopes started out on urban legends? The very stuff you’re pouring scorn on? As Craig Murray notes, it is the go to site for CIA propaganda (let me guess, Murray is a crackpot Trump alike too?)

        I Pity you.

      4. NVLA – Last time I looked it was you that was espousing the anti-vaccine conspiracy theories.

  15. Steven H, to paraphrase Margaret Thatcher when all they can offer is ad hominem, they have no arguments. Now, if you have any evidence or proof which contradicts the reports about the reliability of Professor Ferguson and Imperial College’s estimates about the Corona virus or the fact in the U.K. plus many other countries the fatalities from Corona 19 are neither being differentiated from people who had primary diseases such as cancer, heart conditions or a myriad of other diseases which effect mainly the old nor figures showing which people died solely from the Corona virus let’s see it instead of trotting out Daily Flail and Scum regurgitated phrases. However, It appears your only recourse to factual arguments is to be abusive and use cliches which you have no idea. why and by whom were first made so widespread. Poor you living in darkness!

    1. Maybe realisation is, not before time, kicking in that you are on very shaky ground with your nonsense about vaccines and Bill Gates otherwise why the sudden change of emphasis when my posts are reffering to your fuckwit conspiracy theories surrounding vaccines and Bill Gates. Your gullibility would be a source for mild amusement but for the fact that your conspiracy theories perpetuate suffering and death.

      1. SteveH, hmm, now you evidently didn’t read my original post properly perhaps it was because you covered the screen with phlegm from your little diatribe. You would have noticed I state A. Professor Ian Ferguson plus Imperial College have a woefully inaccurate track
        record for making predictions about epidemics.

        B. The World Health Organization accepted his prognosis calling it a “pandemic “ although he has a proven track record of being wildly wrong.

        C. The WHO are by a very wide margin funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation plus the international giant pharmaceutical corporations both of whom donated to Ferguson and Imperial $18,000,000 and $400,000,000 respectively.

        Lastly, that BAMF plus the international pharmaceutical corporations have indeed made sheds loads of money from vaccines.

        Now, if you believe that they are providing these huge cash donations to both the WHO and Professor Ferguson plus Imperial College out of the goodness of their heart then I am sorry to say you swallowed even more of the MSM, State Broadcaster and their propaganda than I would have given you credit for. If you care to read the following article( I have many more sources such as Media Lens or Off Guardian all highly recommended for giving lots of information about these pernicious people and organisations) , you might lift the scales from your eyes instead of being in darkness. “ Who controls the British Government response to Covid-19”

  16. timfrom, I am afraid he has only a few stock cliches to draw on when he can’t defend the indefensible!

    1. brianbotou – I would argue that it is in fact your own addled ant-vaccine conspiracy theories that are both indefensible and dangerous.

  17. Steven H, “ I would argue that it is in fact….”. Unfortunately, you neither argue or use facts. What you do use is ad hominem and regurgitated propaganda as witnessed by your retorts to myself and timfrom!

    1. brianbotou – Are you denying that there is a very wide body of established scientific evidence supporting the use of vaccines? Whilst all your ‘theories’ appear to hang on nothing more than obscure mendacious interpretations of out of context quotes.

      As I’ve said above I’m not the one proselytising oddball anti-vaccine conspiracy theories.

      1. Again you are being selective in order to try and using a polemic in order to evade the facts. Moreover, you have not offered anything to counter ( not vacuous cliches or superficial propagandised sites) the facts .

        Just to reiterate, in case your tangential comments miss the original statement, the WHO, Professor Ferguson plus Imperial College are funded to a great extent by the BGAF, international pharmaceutical corporations. In the case of WHO about 75% of its funding comes from the BAMGF and Professor Ferguson and Imperial have received $18,000,000 and $400,000,000 respectively.

        Furthermore, Professor Ferguson has a proven track record of being wildly out in his prognosis of fatalities of deaths from epidemics ranging from foot&mouth, bird flu, swine flu and now his estimates of Covid 19 have been accepted by both WHO and the Tories to proclaim a pandemic. Lastly, the notion that the BGAMF plus international pharmaceutical corporations such as Glaxo would donate such vast sums to these organisations, plus individuals without a Quid pro Quo does not stand up to scrutiny. Particularly so when they have made shed loads of money from vaccines such as the bird flu or swine flu.

        In addition, I would draw your attention to the and the “ Corona Fact -Check#4” plus the articles from this site which examines in detail about the Covid 19. Highly recommended . Now, I am still awaiting your counter facts to what I have wrote instead of trying to rely on deflection and inane vacuous posts and stereotyping cliches!

      2. brianbotou – Given your extensive ‘research’ you will obviously have no problem whatsoever in providing credible links to support these ‘facts’. I have better things to do than search around looking for the source of your ‘facts’. Please remember that you are only allowed one link per comment so you may have to post a series of comments to cover all the claims you make above.

  18. Never Voting Labour Again, I am afraid that when he can’t argue from a point of view of reasoned discussion he retorts to his default phrase which he is totally ignorant of why and by whom it was first used in common speech in recent history.

    1. That’s a bit like arguing that one can have a reasoned discussion with Donald Trump on Climate Change, only with even less credibility.

      1. “ that’s a bit like…” Hmm, deflection and digression to divert from your use of ad hominem, stereotyping cliches to avoid using factual reasoning ( not regurgitated propaganda) does not add on your part to any form or shape of a reasoned argument or credibility!

      2. brianbotou – On what scientific basis do you claim that anti-vaxxers have any credibility whatsoever.

  19. Your are the one who is disputing the facts I offered with supporting evidence to show that Ferguson and Imperial are totally inaccurate in their prognosis about Foot &mouth, Bird Flu, Swine flu and have been used in the past by the WHO and now with Covid 19 to justify a “ pandemic “ In addition, I have facts with supporting evidence to show that the BAMGF plus international pharmaceutical corporations have donated vast sums to these organisations and individuals and have made vast sums of money from vaccines that were bought on the estimates of figures supplied by Ferguson and Imperial. Now, if you have any factual evidence, proof to counter these facts let’s see it instead of trying to use artificial polemics!

    1. brianbotou – You’re the one making all the fanciful claims, you show me yours first.

      I am presuming you do know the difference between facts and supposition.

      Whilst you’re at it could you confirm whether you think Covid-19 is a pandemic and if you believe it isn’t a pandemic could you explain why you think it fails to qualify as one.

      1. … or on the other hand if you do agree that Covid-19 is a pandemic could you please explain why you think it is in the least bit relevant to be arguing about the precise veracity of one small element that the WHO will have considered as part of their decision making process.

        My problem with your posts is not about the minutia of whether past pandemics have been accurately predicted but rather your ridiculous conspiracy theories surrounding the WHO vaccination programs. In Pakistan the same nonsense conspiracy theories that you assert are being used by malevolent and misguided individuals to impede the eradication of polio.

  20. It seems you are somewhat confused, no surprise there if you are swallowing the propaganda being pumped out by the MSM, the onus is on the accuser that being you to show factual evidence, proof to counter what I and the various other contributors on the offguardian have stated about the reliability of Professor Ferguson plus Imperial Colleges proven track record of wildly inaccurate prognosis about the fatalities ( he claimed 50, 000 would perish from bird flu actual number 178 , he predicted 200,000,000 people would die from swine flu world wide actual number 78. He also said 65,000 would die from foot&mouth in the U.K. actual number 456. Now, he has made an estimated figure of number of possible fatalities from Covid 19 which WHO have accepted without dispute and declared a “ pandemic “.

    Moreover, you have not demonstrated any counter evidence, proof to the fact that the WHO is overwhelmingly financed ( over 75%) by the BAMGF plus international pharmaceutical corporations and Professor Ferguson plus Imperial have received $18,000,000 and $400,000,000 respectively. You can check these facts at and and the BAMGF plus the various international pharmaceutical corporations made a very large sum of money from the vaccines produced on these woefully inaccurate estimates from Professor Ferguson and the Imperial which can be verified at the sites I have previously mentioned. If you cannot produce any evidence or facts, you are merely engaging in empty vacuous rhetoric with artificial polemics to avoid producing any counter evidence. I have wasted enough time with your regurgitated propaganda you are boring me. Goodnight.

    1. My point is that all I have seen from you is assertions and the only links you have provided are to comment and supposition. Let’s see some hard figures on your claims about the WHO budget (who’s proportions have apparently varied considerably throughout your posts on this thread). You have made various claims about the funding sources for the WHO but you’ve yet to link to anything concrete or verifiable. Opinion and supposition don’t count for much. I’ll be more than happy to provide a counter to these famous facts of yours once you actually give me something factual to counter. If on the other hand I can verify the evidence you provide I will be also quite happy to say so.

      Non of the above explains your apparent reluctance to confirm or deny that Covid-19 is pandemic.

  21. “ my problem with with your posts.. ..”. Again an empty vacuous post. Totally void of any counter factual evidence to produce only more tangential artificial polemics to avoid showing any evidence you have which patiently you do not. Just to reiterate, you are becoming tiresome, mundane and monotonous. Adieu

    1. … and the links to any actual evidence are where? If you expended a little more effort on providing some hard facts rather than shooting the messenger we might make a little bit of progress. You claim to have the hard factual nformation so why do you continually refuse to divulge it.

      Why the reluctance on your part to state whether you agree or not that Civid-19 is a pandemic.

      As I have said above my primary interest is your silly anti-vaxxer conspiracy stance that for some reason you seem to be reluctant to defend.

    1. You are more than welcome to accept my invitation to fill the ‘void’ with some links to this evidence that you claim to posses.

      1. @Steve I didn’t mention vaccines. I mentioned how Bill Gates left his cash cow, Microsoft.

        I’m scientifically literate enough to understand the idea behind vaccines is a good thing. I’m vaccinated and so are the kids around me.

        But when I see video of doctors suggesting that killing refusers is the way forward…what happend to do no harm? I’ve already mentioned Gates. He’s quit his job. Why?

        Do you not question anything?

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