‘Exclusion criteria’ mean existing hospitals’ resources are drained into new facilities
The government’s new Nightingale hospitals are being protected by the Tories from caring for the sickest coronavirus patients – and the government’s rules for patients hospitals are allowed to transfer are sucking resources away from front-line existing NHS care.
A leaked list of the ‘exclusion criteria’ for hospitals looking to send a patient needing care to a Nightingale facility mean that the most ill patients are barred and must remain in pre-existing hospitals:
While some of these are similar to the admission rules given to other hospitals by the Department of Health, the more extensive list means that the new facilities are likely to have lower death rates and can be painted by Matt Hancock and Boris Johnson as a success.
More worrying still is the fact that any hospital that is allowed to send a patient also has to send the staff and equipment that each patient needs to the Nightingale facility.
This means that each transfer to a Nightingale is sucking away front-line resources from other hospitals, rather than adding genuine capacity.
With the Tories, the devil is always in the detail – and these details make the new facilities look like a PR sham to con the British public.
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The concentration of the Govt is turning more and more to manipulating the figures to make a political point. It’s becoming like a continuous GE when only one side gets a 45 minute party political broadcast every day with only the most Establishment media being allowed to ask a question that often simply invites the speaker to reiterate what we’ve heard time after time. The Guardian isn’t allowed a question because, presumably, they are believed to be Lefties!! LBC and Skynews are very welcome. The Govt will want to say ‘didn’t we do well’, citing lower deaths than say Luxembourg. Germany they will want to say cheated (somehow, not sure how) and as for China they need an old fashioned Shock and Awe attack, fancy not alerting the World for 6 days!! Or so the US says. Never mind when they did make the alert the UK took 2 months to think about it before doing anything! That’s 60 days.
2️⃣ Deliberate scam to BLOCK very sick patients accessing Hospital Care.
Many have died and are dying not only in nursing homes but in their own homes UNTESTED. Thus though they had OBVIOUS Covid-19 absolutely dreadful symptoms… the most obvious being HORRIFIC GASPING for BREATH and then unable to breathe, because the lungs are clogged with possibly thick mucus / slime … BUT despite dying in that horrible way, someone gave instructions to keep them OUT of the Nightingale MAKESHIFT hospital, OUT of the NHS hospitals, and NOT put Covid-19 on the death certificate. WHO gave those orders directly or directly, written or unwritten, WHEN, to WHOM and by WHOM???🌹🌹🌹
🔔 Some r more on top of my past posts than i. They will know the prediction that “hindsight” is what the Tories will say we are using to condemn their wilful negligence.
As predicted, these very last 50 minutes on BBC Radio 5 Live, Duncan-Smith & Edwina Currie now are claiming they did not know that we were not prepared for the pandemic. Currie is claiming that despite Operation Sickness in 2016 resulted in advice that we lacked PPE etc. All the detailed advice was ignored. Both Duncan Smith and Currie are claiming that WE ARE CLAIMING the BENEFIT of HINDSIGHT.
Something to note, despite having not a leg on which to stand, Edwina Currie at her most odious and shameless, is out putting her threadbare Tory excuses for CALLOUS NEGLIGENCE, boldly.
The Tories red, who infest our party, do the same. They have NOTHING to offer, yet they too, like their creature cesspit dwellers Currie & Duncan-Smith, are out fighting hard to defend their cesspit ideology.
How strange then, that so many who have the only policies to save this country, disappear for weeks on end. Month after month, not a sound, despite vile slanders and injustice to members. When we are eventually graced with an appearance, not a tiny fraction of the up front presentation rebuttal of obvious lies as Currie uses for her laughable arguments.
Yet we with right on outside have the peculiar idea that the “system” should sit nicely and give us an audience. Our policies are so sensible, and they are, but we believe that one or two mentions and the electorate will say as one, thats brilliant!!! Then we retreat behind a thick fog and are surprised that the right wing could crush us so easily or AS lies have fooled some. This situation almost defies explanation. My hypothesis is that its a culture embedded over hundreds of years. That will change. 🔔🔔🔔
signpostwindchimes….Odious…Curry and smity being wheeled out The denials are coming in early for what must eventually go to the international courts.Currys husband ex cop and another bover boy from Tory stronghold Reigate was well known for mouthy filth at council mtgs.The old witch used to groan when I got up to put a question.,but nobody took them seriously just like we didnt with the enemy within.Another famouse right wing stalwart from Reigate Tory stronghold in Surrey is now running the Labour party and O am told by old lawyer friends from my former home in Reigate that the knight was even more suprised than us that his luck held and the dummys voted for him..I wonder if they will be featuring the chingford bover boy Tebbit as johsons finding it difficult hiding out and Dominic has our knight is calling Rabid will soon be coming down with a virus?Could we soon see a re run of Hancocks half hour or is it just aCovid coverup….regards comrades whilst we are still allowed in NULabor
“The old witch used to groan when I got up to put a question.,but nobody took them seriously just like we didnt with the enemy within”
Joseph, the old witch was at her worst last night. Just when u think her broom could not drip with more filth, the witch manages it. Even the BBC host Nolan, for once had to pull her up. Smithy Duncan man was also extraordinary. They were all claiming that critics are using hindsight and “this is not the time to criticise”. Oh, and put your tea down…”they are following the science”. The shameless vulgar jokers‼️‼️‼️‼️
The Nightingale hospital was a.simple Public Relations scam. Who ever was going to staff it. Florence Nightingale was a brilliant administrator and stickler for detail. See Scutari. She would have been furious to have known that her Name and reputation had been used in this way to delude the public and undermine the care of sick people.
We are in operation damage Control. This government fucked up from not acting. Everything what’s happened now is just to deflect blame, taps on and off expression is all there for everyone to see. They realised they had fucked up and our hospital’s wouldn’t be able to cope, if they hadn’t isolated they would have created riots, when people would have been turned away or even told to isolate at home. “happening now”. All these makeshift hospitals are a sham to say they have provided capacity for the pandemic. It was pretty obvious they hadn’t got the staff for it, knowing the underfunding to the NHS and their current Staffing levels.
There’s are lies at all levels trying to keep Covid-19 deaths from the stats.
The country is half open with Herd immunity still running, the science hasn’t changed just their language and makeshift actions in damage control. Not enough frontline experienced Staff, PPE, Testing, the three main things to fight a Pandemic.This is Tory ideology survival of the fittest.
Spot on Masmit🌹🌹🌹
Horse has already bolted my friend. My that they have kicked the can down the road.
Seems that the longer we are locked down, the more chances of peoples jobs evaporating. Restaurants and their staff are good example of what’s coming. They are already announcing that some will not reopen. This will be far and wide. Offices won’t be needed, nor will the furniture and everything else to go with it…
The problem isn’t now, it’s the future. Combine this economic uncertainty with a very likely second outbreak in autumn (think of the time of year when kids start getting snotty…)
This is why they have already implemented legislation to keep us in our place.
ITs all becoming even more bazzar by the day.vimto type badges for a reward ,hospitals that dont want sick people?Why not cardboard cut out nurses and hospitals and plastic “dummy” policeman..We could build filmset entrances for new hospitals and marvel at the ingenuity that Britain at its best…just like wartime Britain that fooled the Germans into thinking that cut out models were aircraft,tanks and battalions ready to take on the might of a genocidal nazi regime.The only problem now is the homicidal regime is the Torys backed up by a compliant knight and his gutless mps…!
OFF toipc again and so sorry but this has to be seen and stopped .
“How did Starmer conceal controversial donors until after the leadership vote?
1/ He created an artificial gap between ‘receiving’ and ‘accepting’ donations.
2/ Once accepted, he then had 28 days to report.
3/ Thus Taylor, Coates & Chinn weren’t on the Register until April 14. ”
NOW to all Starmer fans go and google these individuals .
Starmer is NOT FIT TO BE OUR LEADER .
He has devised and implemented a deceitful mechanism to defeat and frustrate the intention of the rules on donor monies.
STARMER OUT NOW ! No confidence what so ever !¬
Starmer is shameless. Maybe mass resignations will dull his glitter? Mind you he/they must have anticipated that and probably they rely on it to begin the LW purge – let members purge themselves. Not that I think it’s a reason not to resign because the Party IS over.
Just wondering……from the time of the acceptance of any donation, to the time of actually reporting the acceptance of any donation, what are the rules, if any, on actual access to & use of any financial donations until they are properly registered?
Has anyone broken any rules here, because these ‘cheques/bank transfers/bribes’ seemed to have been floating around somewhere for a good few weeks before they were actually registered and made public. ?
I know a letter reporting a deselection of an MP takes 13 weeks to get a reply. Some Labour Party rules are based on 19thC conditions but it’s very convenient at times. In December 2019 the 13 week response time saved at least one RW ‘Labour’ MP.
Guardian is too busy working with spooks to have time for government questioning
It’ll be obvious to the NHS that with those restrictions the Nightingales are a non-solution and they’ll send hardly any patients there.
Later the Tories will blame the NHS for not making full use of the resources provided – making the need for a radical reconsideration of how the NHS operates and is funded – even more urgent.
“And we just happen to have a plan all ready to go.”
On Friday night Public Health England announced that disposable PPE should now be re-used.
If the NHS as a whole had had an intelligent, healthy distrust of the imbecilic Hancock they’d have washed and saved all their used PPE for later emergency use as I suggested in another thread.
I’ve just read that some doctors have been doing exactly that on their own initiative.
I’m bemused that the NHS didn’t prepare for the entirely predictable scenario of Hancock and every other Tory failing to make good on their too-easily-made promises of largesse to come.
Seriously – did ANYONE see Hancock as the type to rise to a challenge?
Throughout history there’ve been many who have – who’ve responded to the call with unselfish heroism while others have cowered under their desks looking for ways to escape blame for the carnage of their piss-poor planning.
No prizes for pinning the tail – or the face – on this fucking donkey.
Having watched another daily dose of panic virus, courtesy of the BBC and government (there is a certain fascination in watching a shite-pumping operation) – aided by sundry others, I recommend a bit of balanced sanity in a lengthy exploration of current Covid-19 issues from David Katz, a reputable public health academic :
https://youtu.be/VK0Wtjh3HVA
It’s an hour long, and won’t suit a mentality open just to confirmation bias and getting their rocks off on a bit of panic adrenalin – but, hey-ho – such aren’t going to listen to rational analysis, anyway.
But for anyone interested, the examination of the much abused concept of ‘herd immunity’ is very clear – from 29:00 minutes onwards.
Amazing that governments of every shade over the whole planet have all made the same schoolboy error though, isn’t it?
Have they all been conned or do they all have the same evil plan to kill off the elderly and bankrupt the planet do you think?
And what do they hope to gain? Are they being blackmailed by aliens?
Oh, and what about the WHO, the CDC, the NHS etc not saying anything – that is one big fuckoff conspiracy, isn’t it?
How come the whistleblowers haven’t been ‘accidented’ or ‘Skripal’d’ by black ops – or even arrested on fake charges like Assange?
Sort of reminds me of the famous or infamous BBC weather presenter Michael Fish @1987,, storm what storm , there will be no storm.
David
If you want a clever answer to scumbags sudden retreat from Herd Immunity its ‘Neil Ferguson’
Ferguson is often given the ‘credit’ for the U turn but at the time and for about 2 hours in the UK the media seemed to accept what the French media were saying which was that in a phone call to Piffle on the Friday morning he warned France would consider banning any contact with the UK if measures weren’t taken. Both the President’s office and Downing St agreed a call had been made, the French agreeing Macron spoke about measures to tackle the virus while Downing St agreed a call but coyly declined to say what it was about. If France had closed her borders with the UK the rest of the EU would have followed suit, especially the Netherlands meaning trade into and out of Dover would have stopped. There were reports the threat had indeed changed Johnson’s mind (Cummings) but the last thing they wanted was to accept that as the reason for the sudden policy change. It would have made nonsense of the ‘take back control’ bollocks. So Ferguson became the reason to save the Govt from acute embarrassment.
Or Burger King as we know him
RH, here’s what he’s advocating in minutes.
I don’t believe he is far of WHO on this pandemic, advocating tests to isolate before breaking isolation.
https://davidkatzmd.com/coronavirus-information-and-resources/
Yes – that’s a good link, Masmit – but it’s only part of what is in the interview, which is also a bit later, I think.
I don’t think it’s the precise measures that he advocates that make the interview worth watching – more the lengthier exploration of the key issues.
Yes, RH, it’s a very good interview and well worth the time to watch.
The problem, as I’ve tried to get across to you before, is your too often disparaging of others before they’ve even had a chance to see what it is you’re pointing to – it just comes across as arrogant, I’m afraid. It tends to put people off before they’ve even begun.
Why not just point people in the direction you suggest, leave it there and then wait until they might disagree, then you can defend/argue the points in question as they may arise?
Regarding herd immunity, Katz is not suggesting we all get together and infect one another, thereby gaining immunity, as he admits there is much uncertainty about such a conclusion and it would undoubtedly cause too many to die unnecessarily.
What he does suggest, however, is a controlled approach of infection based on low viral load while keeping the most vulnerable isolated during the process. The problem, as he rightly attests, is the lack of a planned system to achieve it.
I’m not ‘disparaging of others’, PW. The disparagement is aimed at the simplistic media narrative that is foisted on us daily – and the belief in it that I see around. (Just like the narrative that dished Corbyn).
As I said – it isn’t simplistic and treats uncertainty with the respect that the situation deserves, rather than being aimed at exaggeration.
I pointed up the ‘herd immunity’ section precisely because it is, indeed, a balanced account of the phenomenon, rather than treating it as a weird panic-inducing strategy.
I have often posted links with little if any comment – only to be accused of the same sins by some actually committing them!
……can we have as many unchecked flights as possible from New York, to airports all over GB; that’s what we need for a successful lockdown? Keep the cattle being infected & quickly open up the schools & the economy. Stay ahead of the curve & never question why GB has more deaths than any other European country.
What happens if there is no resistance to Covid 19 & proof of antibodies is no defence? We don’t know.
There is a growing group of Virus Deniers who, like Deniers of other sorts are quite fanatical in their belief that the virus isn’t as dangerous as flu and it’s a giant media hoax to allow Govt crack downs on freedom of speech. They often simply say things like the death rate in NW London are lies made up by, strangely, NHS staff moving, hiding and producing bodies here, there and everywhere. They can’t explain why other staff don’t complain except by suggesting they are intimidated. The Deniers main concern seems to be the threat to Corporate profit, if that goes the global companies like Amazon are in trouble. Deniers want the workers to get back to their work stations to keep the profit going and avoid their ‘nightmare’ of mass Nationalisation and the loss of their wealth at a stroke. No wonder they fight hard you might think. Leader of the Deniers is Trump of course but Bolsanaro is quite a hero as he doesn’t mince his words as Trump does. The British Deniers hate being connected with Jair so they say nothing. But they are still insisting Covid is no more indeed less dangerous than the ordinary flu – which must mean those pesky Dr’s ARE moving the bodies and double counting. The Brit Deniers are strangely claiming to be ‘of the Left’ despite their support from the most RW politicians in the World. One particular site, once assumed to be Left orientated has been leading the Denial narrative with extraordinary levels of abuse and interference from the Moderators (from who the abuse largely comes!). Fortunately they adopt pretentious semi academic arguments that can only be of interest to themselves so they don’t have any real influence. The cringing pretension to intellectualism is occasionally seen on this site as we know. If the cap fits…
Someone is seriously confused as to who it is actually suffering from a case of terminal confirmation bias.
The observation Medici cura ti ipsum seems appropriate as the facts and reality on the ground do not support any kind of nothing to worry about, over hyped self selecting theory in which specific experts are blatantly cherry picked to support a particular narrative someone has bought into and now cannot let go of. Because we have clearly now got to the saving face at at any cost stage.
As the new Official Opposition have detailed here, and in the provided links:
https://archive.is/20200418182037/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh#selection-1533.0-1533.236
The virus deniers ought to get out on the streets in a mass meeting and hug and kiss each other so we at least know they are serious about their belief. At the moment it’s more like isolation madness on the keyboard.
Despite the weekly applause, even NHS staff have been REFUSED hospital admissions and Nightingale makeshift field hospital admissions.
Ambulances have REFUSED to take even those who have given decades of selfless NHS service. Gratitude for saving lives? Clapping on Thursdays + horrific deaths of staff at home, and loved ones left in shock and grief🌹🌹🌹
I haven’t heard of ambulances refusing to transport people and it seems Google hasn’t heard of it either.
Cherry picking common theme for BJ.
off topic but important
https://www.thecanary.co/exclusive/2020/04/17/keir-starmer-received-50000-donation-from-pro-israel-lobbyist-in-leadership-bid/
Very important!
rob
Makes no difference to what we have to do at every level of the movement
Harold Wilson
When you have them by the balls then surely their hearts and minds will follow
Only question about Keir is will we have to squeeze
Interested in who our candidates are, not least next leader
Your a fucking anti semite and a racist
I’m sorry you feel that way
Fist of steel inside a velvet glove, whose that ?
The way things are we need to have that person ‘Oven Ready’
We need a unified umbrella organisation on a National level for ALL Labour left wingers , enough of these disparate groups , LLA , Stand Up for Labour , Momentum , Forward Momentum , Left Unity , , the list goes on and on .
Perhaps Laura Piddock could head this organisation and bring us ALL together as one formidable united fighting force within Labour .
No more bloody mega egos Lansman et al , get out of the way , this is serious and as you said Doug needs addressing esp in the light of the report .
Chris Williamson —- oven ready !
rob
Chris Williamson
Fist of steel inside a velvet glove
Integrity and street smarts
I’m good with that
Govt from day 1 have been managing the hospital admissions (you only go if you have been tested and if you are in a care home you dont get in)) because hospital covid deaths are the data they use in their graphs…this means thery can exclude deaths in community and present a graph with lower figures that looks like it is plateauing… of course the actual deaths arent plateuing yet as there is up to four weeks between showing symptoms and dying..what else would you expect from these hypocritical sycophants masquerading as leaders…??
And still they’re paying themselves…sorry, their mates who own private healthcare, £2.4m per day.
One word.
Fraud.
Sad state of affairs when the nation’s health service is being funded by stunts performed by 99 year old war veterans.
Still, it wouldn’t stop these private companies accepting that money in exchanges for about 9 days of loaning beds out that the government criteria means they’ll be unlikely to be used.
Also BBC breakfast making a correction about a call they received from someone they thought was an NHS exec asking for the numbers of Burberry and Barbour – both making gowns for the NHS – because of a supply shortage.
Turns out it wasn’t an NHS exec – just someone who’s part of a network involved in the supply chain, helping to source ppe for the NHS.
Which makes the shortage far less serious because it wasn’t an NHS exec asking in desperation.
Christ on a stick. This bullshit HAS to stop.
It is Toffee but do not take away from his superb efforts , the rate of donations is at present about 1/2 million per hour ,now at 22.5 mil
Yes this should shame the Govt but it won’t , they are happy cos they can chop another 22.5 mil off the NHS as tax give away for the rich , and nobody will miss it .
Agree re Prof Ashton I rate him and his views/advice and unlike some other USA crack pot “experts” he advocates contained Lockdown.
When I see politicians & military personnel out on the streets with begging tins or charity walks for Trident, I will believe that as a society, we have some of our priorities correct.
Prof John Ashton had it right. Those pop up hospitals should be used exclusively for convalescence for those brought out of ICU and meant to be put on wards, and the ‘proper’ wards used for more serious and ‘fresh’ cases of infection.
It feels like the government is rearranging the deckchairs every day at the moment.
I expect when there is a glimmer of hope that the outbreak is under control that Boris will resurface and claim that he is making good on his promise of 50,000 more nurses. We do know that many included in his figures will be the returning retired nurses and the first of the 12,000 year 2 and year 3 student nurses now starting to be sent to the front line. Lord help them – with the lack of PPE continuing not sure if they are heading for Nightingale hospitals or the main hospitals/care homes or a mix.
And I suppose our knight of the Realm is still waiting for a reply from Dominic as he calls him,after inquiring on the recovery and best wishes to his beloved PM Piffel johnson.Still the knight published his letter for all to see how busy he’s been as leader of the opposition?.?I think he forgot to ask how Samanthas health was and his abandoned brood of Children.
The government does have a plan but will not allow scrutiny in real-time. We will have a wishy washy review which will have the outcome of ‘Lessons learnt’ and the death toll will be an ‘unforeseen consequence’ because…….
UK’s coronavirus science advice won’t be published until pandemic ends published in New Scientist
HEALTH 17 April 2020 by David Adam
No deviation from behavioural experiment.
Keep the subjects unaware, so they cannot contaminate the result or ask pertinent questions.
We are not laboratory subjects we are sentient beings!!
SAGE group should be transparent and be open to scrutiny.
The 2011 Code of Practice for Scientific Advisory Committees says meeting minutes should be published “as soon as possible” and written in an “unattributable form” – meaning there is no need to identify members. Advisory committees “should operate from a presumption of openness” the code says, and also publish meeting agendas and final advice.
New Scientist 17/4/2020
Lies! Damned Lies……& Tory Statistics. Change the criteria & cook da books. Even the elderly & the most vulnerable should have the same NHS care that BoJo received. Let’s not forget, come the next election, to remind the Tories of their failures & incompetence.
FAKE NEWS in the POST TRUTH ERA. ATTENTION!
Due to the current economic disaster & closure of the economy, our beloved PM has decided that we can no longer afford Trident, neither can we afford to fund expensive ‘foreign wars’. All British military involved in such operations will be returning home, but luckily we can still sell arms to Saudi Arabia to continue the slaughter in Yemen.
Love,
Boris.
xxx
……….any questions? Yes, Laura Kuenssberg, BBC
It’s possible such will be the size of the debt but before Trident goes – which may well be vetoed by Trump – pensions will be reorganised to stop drawdowns as well as the triple lock. The assets of those now most in the firing line of the virus are the last capital asset the country has! Minimum wages won’t be raised nor will benefits, in work or not. The lad who is Chancellor has already warned of a new austerity on its way. If the current system is to remain unreformed than he has little choice.
Except for the 1%.
They are going to suck up all the losses made by others. The cheap properties, the bankrupt businesses. The wealth is going to concentrate even more, leading to yet more inequality.
Yep. 21st century carpetbaggers.
Surely not Paul……..I can’t believe this Tory gov’t will make the poor pay again with more austerity. Surely Tony Blair was right, the class war is over & we’re all middle-class now; poverty, like boom & bust cycles have been eliminated. I’m also sure that those with the broadest financial shoulders will be demanding that they pay their fair share & markets & finance will quickly solve these financial problems, as they did in 2008; we must trust the banksters. Soon our economy will grow again with full employment & banks investing in people.
Small businesses, sole traders & the self employed will receive the same support as large businesses & unemployment levels will drop as terms & conditions of employment improve. Most importantly, the nation now understands how necessary our low paid ‘key’ workers are, such as our cleaners; our delivery drivers; our hospital porters; our care workers & our nurses who can now expect to receive relevant increases in pay as well as a round of applause. We now know how important they are & how much the country depends on them. Cheap labour will be a thing of the past, except if you’re from Romania or Bulgaria & picking fruit; doing the back breaking work that sensible people know is massively underpaid.
Is there a cure for deluded optimism?
What happened to the earlier post “what happens if you vote Lib-Dem” ?
Yep, was wondering about that meself.
Finally watched the last of James Graham’s ‘Quiz’ (the first two episodes are a bit of damp squib).
… which is a marvellous examination of the sort of confirmation bias that we are seeing day-by-day in the edited version of Covid-19 reality
Just putting this in here to lighten the mood a bit…
https://youtu.be/TriaOVgwc1Y
I seem to need moderating…..help…!
Only slightly off the thread I wonder if others were impressed by the research of Yaron Ogen of Martin Luther Uni Halle-Wittenberg who finds as much as 70-80% of deaths and infections have occurred in densely populated urban places, Chinese mega cities, Lombardy, Madrid, London (and West Midlands) and New York (and now Boston). Contrary to expectation it hasn’t spread country wide or into many rural areas despite poverty and a poor or none existent health system. Greece is an example in Europe. Africa may yet be spared mass deaths. The Guardian story on Monday had an interesting chart marking areas of high death rates and it doesn’t take much imagination to superimpose similar charts that would match; population density; standard of living; air pollution – and in particular nitrogen dioxide caused largely by Diesel engines. The argument is that long term exposure to NO2 weakens the lungs (as is accepted) and makes death from Covid-19 more likely. It might also help explain why BAME citizens seem to be worse effected; maybe because they are more likely to work and live in highly polluted mega cities? Death from Covid May turn out to be a problem for the wealthy! It will put a strain on those mega cities to reform – or vanish off the map.