Three left-wing organisations, together with leading figures from the left of the Labour movement, have come together in support of a new joint initiative to call Labour members and supporters together: ‘Don’t Leave, Organise’.
A statement just released by the group explains:
The loss of the General Election, the resignation of Jeremy Corbyn, and the defeat of the left in the NEC elections, together constitute a major setback. But we are not defeated. We are also working in the unprecedented landscape caused by Covid-19 and the government response to this health emergency.
So we urge all socialists to stay in the party, contribute to the efforts to re-unite the left, and be part of a renewed focus for mobilising to demand the society we need for the many.
One great achievement of the Corbyn period was to bring the left together into a force able to influence the terms of debate, to mobilise for and win a left oriented NEC and get radical motions passed at conference. Before Jeremy’s election we worked as many separate groups, but under his leadership we showed that together, we could wield real influence.
Remember how much we’ve achieved in the past 5 years. Even before the Covid-19 pandemic Labour had forced the Conservatives to make reverses on austerity – including the promise of new investment in infrastructure and public services. The £10 an hour Living Wage campaign was and still is a great example of successful campaigning that became Labour Party policy and pushed the Tories into moving on this issue.
We reaffirm our commitment to the Labour Party which remains, through its historic connection with the trade union and labour movement, the most important expression of the organised working class and a voice for the many.
Our tasks are twofold:
· First is to help build a strong opposition to the right-wing Tory government. Sadly, we cannot always rely on support from within the Labour Party for our socialist policies, industrial action and active campaigning.
· Our second task, therefore, is to help strengthen and reconnect the Labour left. There is a major task of reconstruction to be taken up urgently.
United we are rock – divided we are sand
Many existing left groups and trade unions, as well as emerging new grassroots organisations, have complementary strengths and a shared purpose, so we are calling for a national network of the grassroots Labour left. The signatories to this initial statement of intent will be part of the answer but we do not presume to offer a complete solution. This is just the start – one piece of a much bigger jigsaw. Any genuine coalition of the left should include both traditional established organisations and emerging new groupings.
Developing such a movement is the first stage in a process of getting people to think about what kind of society they want to live in. This has to be a grassroots activity bringing together individuals and groups, both within and outside the party together with trade unions, councillors, MPs and others in influential positions who actively support a transformative agenda – and demonstrating the importance of going back to our roots through workplace and community organising. We also need to promote understanding of the socialist potential a post-Covid-19 political landscape will offer.
A new and different landscape
The Covid-19 crisis, along with its tragic consequences, has made campaigners think about new ways of organising and mobilising for radical transformation. It has already highlighted the importance of public services and exposed the damage that decades of austerity have done to workers’ conditions while destroying any opportunities for our youth to thrive.
Across all regions and nations of the United Kingdom, party members are joining mutual aid groups. This kind of co-operative activity could sow the seeds of transformative change, moving away from the cruelty of Tory individualism and its market-led ideology. The crisis around the pandemic has also seen a growth in workplace militancy, in particular resistance to working in unsafe conditions.
And in the unprecedented environment of lock-down we are finding different ways to communicate, organise and express solidarity – through social media, chat groups, virtual meetings and events. These are particularly important while most party structures are all but shut down. We need to demand they are opened up virtually to ensure that all members have a voice in party business.
Our principles and commitment to concrete action
Socialists in the party need to work together, in coalition, now more than ever. Alongside others in the Labour Party, we will help rebuild the left around a new, national network, which will be a place to organise, educate and debate in order to deliver the socialist society we all need.
We commit to democratic and transparent organisation; working to democratise the Labour Party and the trade unions; defending party members against unjust disciplinary processes and supporting the self-organisation of groups contesting particular oppressions.
Some of the key policies that we will be supporting and campaigning for are:
· A commitment to repealing all anti-trade union legislation;
· Struggles against employer attacks and oppression of workers; struggles for unionising unorganised workforces;
· Combating damaging climate change nationally and internationally;
· Public ownership of, and investment in, our public services, in particular our NHS and social care;
· Opposing all forms of racism including antisemitism, and all other forms of discrimination;
· Rolling back the growth of the far right;
· An internationalist policy stance based on justice and peace which by definition includes support for the Palestinians.
Labour belongs to us. Let’s unite to form an opposition and movement we can be proud of, to build the society we believe in.
How to get involved – we want to hear from you
We are already talking to groups we expect to be among the first participants in this network. If you are in a left Labour/Momentum/constituency group, trade union branch, self-organising group representing liberation strands or broad left Labour organisation which you believe would be interested in joining this network we want to hear from you. We will use contact details, with permission, to put people in touch with each other and start to develop the networking potential of the Labour left. We also want to involve community cultural and arts groups to support diversity of political education.
There are many vibrant campaigns going on at grassroots level. Here are a couple of examples supporting people working in low paid jobs and the gig economy that stand out in their organisation and ambition. Please contact them direct for further information and to sign up. We’re proud to support:
· Zero hours justice https://www.zerohoursjustice.org/
· 100% campaign https://www.facebook.com/events/206565310643449/
We look forward to connecting activists involved in many such campaigns, covering issues including our NHS, housing, education and many more through our network as it develops. Please get in touch via: info@dontleaveorganise.org and Facebook page.
We are also building an internet hub of resources and materials for education, communication and organisation – open to everyone in the network. Get in touch if you want to contribute ideas, skills and local campaign details.
We aim to hold a major gathering, virtual if necessary, to connect all groups working towards our shared goals. Please contact us if you would like to be part of an organising group to make it happen.
Signed
Jewish Voice for Labour
Labour Representation Committee
Red Labour
Ian Hodson (TBC)
Socialist Campaign Group of Labour Councillors
Laura Pidcock
Tosh Macdonald – Retired President, ASLEF
Jo Bird – Secretary of the Labour Group, Wirral Council and ex-NEC candidate
Jane Aitchison – President Leeds TUC and Labour PPC for Pudsey 2019
Kate Linnegar – Labour PPC for North Swindon 2019
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Nice notion.
Totally unworkable because starmer and socialism are completely and irreconcilably incompatible.
what do u suggest toffee?
Get shut of the co-operative; who were/are, in the main, nothing but.
Either that, or all non – cooperative leave to form a new party.
Meant *nothing of the sort* , rather than ‘nothing but’.
Or even ANYTHING but …
Sigh, show me some evidence of lasting gains against the right? They are like cancer they spread corrupt and hide until exposed and then it’s to late. This report shows some of there games I bet that’s the tip of the iceberg of scum. We have a tiny amount of true left Labour MP’s left the rump of the party machine and PLP is solid right.
You organise all you want, fight all you want your and I hate to write this a a life long socialist will die sad and bitter as you will get nowhere the way its now. There is only one way stat again and don’t allow the same BS to ever happen again.
So until we see some sign of real change and getting rid of these scum I will not give them my support, I won’t give them my money and my complicity as if you stay they believe you are doing. If there is a election I will vote Labour but I withdraw my money and my labour until I see true change as I have no faith left and these stupid stay and fight messages are annoying me even more as it’s probably being organised by the right while laughing at you again…
Good post disabledgrandad. Completely agree. Yes the ‘stay and fight’ meme is probably RW inspired. You certainly can’t say it’s ‘not possible’ as we were doing a short time ago. Leave and let’s just see how sincere they are.
“So until we see some sign of real change and getting rid of these scum”.
How will that happen? By magic?
“If there is a election I will vote Labour”.
What then is the point of that? Would that not b supporting that which u hate?
“but I withdraw my money and my labour until I see true change”. How will that happen, by magic? Who exactly will create this change without the members who want change?
You say you “have no faith left”. How exactly will you get faith? Where will you find faith? When?
It is WE who must make “faith”, build “faith”, encourage “faith”. Your post suggest exactly what i tried to say on a few occasions since weeks ago. There is a deep attitude / culture that runs right through the “Left”. A peculiar mismatch of wanting great things, great people, great circumstances, yet expecting it all to happen by some yet undiscovered magic and somebody else… except them. They do the work of the right wing. The right wing need not work, when those who say they want change encourage others to give up. You may say what you say sincerely. We have seen the right take control for the same reason. Instead of TRYING to challenge the parasites within the party and speaking up, decisions were taken to act with “JELLIED WEAKNESS” and “WORK AROUND xxxxx “. Say nothing or else the MSM will say this and that. The leadership and NEC and the JC supporting groups in my CLP have the same attitude / culture, say nothing to upset the big bullies. Appease them … give them peerages, take wanton abuse etc
These self defeating attitudes / cultures and behaviours ARE changeable. From my observations, intensely since October 2019, it seems that there is no thought that attitudes need changing. That the destructive trait is defeatism / victim culture. A negative paralysis and most importantly an inability to face clear feedback constructively. We tend to be overly sensitive to negative feedback. Perhaps that is why basic things which needed urgent changing, weren’t. The pernicious buzz word of “comradely” springs to mind. Few take the chance to give advice because eg my response instead of being something to consider, is seen as not nice, harsh etc
So ingrained is that culture that what should be a perspective to consider, is rejected with anger… even to the point of thinking it is a plot of the right.
NB I was the one who urged: Jeremy should reverse his decision to resign as the deficiencies could be corrected. Freeze the membership before the leadership vote. Abandon the inappropriate contest. Support Richard Burgon etc.
Still, best of luck with your alternative options to change this country🌹🌹🌹
Let me know how u get on.
We are attacking a group of people for being complete and utter (*(*(&) yet when they go their replacements will be selected by the very people who put them in situ, we have a problem in the labour party where people in the shadows still have a stranglehold on the movement. really don’t know the answer
Because a large proportion of the NEC are Union appointees the system is permanently rigged against the membership.
As someone who’s a member of the Labour Representative Committee, I, and about 13K other Labourites from the Left are at a bit of a disadvantage, namely, we are Banned from the Party by the fascists from GLU, actually, I now have two bans in four years and even had my Unite Affiliation vote go mysteriously missing – which is why I’m actually organising with Christopher Williamson, who at least had the gaul to take these fascists on in our Party.
Suffice to say, there are other alternatives, be these local Trades Union Councils or Single Issue causes – but a democratic socialist Labour Party is a mirage I’m afraid to say, particularly given the cancer is systemic, with persons afraid to speak out in their CLP’s lest they too get suspended and banned by reactionaries and fascists who should not be allowed anywhere near a progressive, workers Party.
christopher there have always been as you say “other alternatives”. How are they doing?
Some “persons” indeed ARE “afraid to speak out in their CLP’s lest they too get suspended and banned”. Some are afraid true. I am not. I have and do, and have not been suspended or banned. My words are clear and deal with tangible basic FACTS that concern the general public and those which should concern the general public. V much as my posts here. All the responses i have had are extremely positive except funnily enough, a four or five in my Jeremy supporting groups. Figure that one out. One in particular always whines about quitting… yet remains to suffocate the rest with defeatist emptiness. So it is an odd business.
But to each his own. I am always keen to hear of the success of “alternatives”. How do others manage to recruit a perfect set of people, a perfect set up, a perfect environment, and all other signs overflowing dynamic perfection. Seriously, do tell me of their success.
In the meantime my firm view is that those before us, founded our party. If certain creatures have managed to infest the party and there has been decisions not to challenge them, that is our fault. To conclude that we should run away and leave our party to them is part of the psyche of people who mean well. They allow the mythical ideal circumstance to blind them and keep them on the ever quitting run. Run away. Run here. Run there.
That culture must change URGENTLY. Learn from our enemies. They never run away from their mission. Thats why they often win. 🌹🌹🌹
signpostnotwindchimes
It genuinely does help if you can read, but to underscore the point, I’ve been Banned from the LP on two occasions in 4 years, I know who had me Banned in 2016 and know who currently has a file on me – God know’s why though if I’m not actually a member due to being Banned for being a supporter of Corbyn in 2016?
You accuse me of running, well I’ve fought the fuckers all my life and ain’t running anywhere mate, just taking the struggle elsewhere.
But, don’t you think it funny the Party welcomed me in 1983 and was delighted when I actually voted for Blair to become Leader in 1994, alas, move forward, give an hint you are a Leftist and you are out – hardly running and I’ll fight the bastards as I deem fit.
rogers, yes i did read u were banned twice. best of luck.
oh and i only joined to support Jeremy, and am without your long history in the party or any other.
Who knows, maybe i will be banned also along with hundreds in my CLP alone as we are open supporters of Jeremy and it is well known. In my branch alone there is a large number. Yes we have HUGE problems as we are saddled with one of the wreckers. Yes, region has been lamentable and my colleagues reject my hardline approach.
I am certainly not of the “broad church” brigade as that is used by the left due to damp and on the right when it suits them. From the outset i made it plain there and here that Chris Williamson had suffered a grave injustice for eg. Could go on, but better be short. Best of luck with your fight. After all battles, and it is a battle have to be fought on all fronts.
🌹🌹🌹
yes Yes YES ‼️‼️‼️
Tories infested our party. They remained when we defeated them over and over in the last four years. Unforced errors handed them a win at the GE. Our General Election loss was their win. The bastards worked HARD for the Labour Party to lose. That is their DISGRACE.
WE MUST STAY and FIGHT like Ali, Mandela, Tony Benn, Simon Bolivar, Che, Jeremy Corbyn 30+ years… never forget!!!, Dennis Skinner, Ken Livingstone, Nadal, Lewis Hamilton, Andy Murray, Bolt, The Williams Venus and Serena…WINNERS WIN because despite the odds they SYAY and battle for EVERY POINT !!! We CAN do it WHEN we learn and IMPROVE. We must learn. We CAN learn. We MUST win. There is no alternative🌹🌹🌹
What’s happened in the Labour Party over the last 40 years and where will it be in the next 40. It will be In the same place, the party gives us Tory governments and when it gets in, it gives us Tory policies.
Socialists get crumbs, nothing new is coming from Labour. Corbyn brought a message Labour failed again to make it happen. Broad church is not good enough in labours terms. Same values from different walks of life, not different values “how fucked up is that” for a party claiming to be socialist.
UKIP changed the politics in this country, even with far right fascists and Corbyn’s message was heard over it, nobody was listening to the moderates. We need that message from something new, something that’s not tainted by a failing history. Labour is not our answer.
best of luck Masmit.
This is through the looking glass stuff. The PLP and the paid LP staff will NEVER allow a socialist LP to be elected. Tradition is all very well but the Labour Party is holding back the cause of socialism now. It has had its day and is now irrelevant.
Absolutely correct, Marty. The real lesson revealed from the 800 page leaked document on the Party’s bureaucracy and Right MPs constant sabotage of the Corbyn Surge and the chances of a Left Labour government, is to clearly illustrate just how root-and-branch embedded the status quo-supporting Right are, at local, regional, and national levels – and how utterly craven and useless the supposedly ‘radical’ Labour Left are, and always have been throughout the entire history of the Labour Party, in seriously challenging this deeply dug-in deeply corrupt pro capitalist, deeply nationalistic, careerist, cancerous cohort in the Party.
Yet, even after the disastrous four years of ‘Corbynism, which , despite a few minor blocks achieved on Tory policies, the Labour Left simply allowed the Tory Right and their press pals to kick them all over the park, with nothing more than supine retreat and constant apologies,in Left response, and a Party now totally back under the control of the hard-line pro neoliberal Right under the Trilateral Commission’s creature, Starmer, STILL the useless ‘radical Left’ (almost all actually very middle class identity politics obsessed Left Liberals , NOT socialists at all ), want another generation of radicals to squander heir political lives fruitlessly trying to ‘turn Labour Left’, and ‘democratise’ ! This is the bankrupt politics of posture and futility writ large.An invitation to keep on banging ones head against a solid brick wall some more – because – ‘you never know – it might just shatter that wall eventually’ ! It’s what’s called a ‘Sisyphus task’, comrades. ie, keeping on forever winning minor gains , or even, as with the fklukey 2015 Corbyn win, quite large ones, against the institutional pro capitalist bias of the Labour Party – only for it always to be defeated because of the built-in Right wing, pro status quo bias, and deep internal corruption behind this, of the Labour Party, from its very first years as a reserve party of British capitalism and imperialism – created mainly to capture and contain the potential power of the UK working class.
The only route to socialist politics on a mass scale is OUTSIDE of the reformist, pro neoliberal, corrupt, swamp of the Labour Party – no matter how difficult that task is . And it is some task indeed, given the totally middle class Left Liberal politics of what passes for most of the Left today in the UK. The dismal fate of that failed Left initiative, Left Unity, and Respect before that , and before that, etc, etc , shows just what a task such a project is. And anyway, the majority of supposedly Left activists AGREE with Starmer’s nonsense claims about the EU being a ‘progressive organisation’ representing ‘workers internationalism’, and a huge majority of the membership obviously voted for the ill-concealed return to Tory-lite politics under Starmer, and in their middle class uncritical love of the EU they share with Starmer and Progress and Labour First, they happily wrote off the working class voters in our old Labour heartlands , and denounced that working class voter bloc as ‘ignorant , racist, knuckle-draggers’. Oh yes they did, repeatedly. So the majority of the membership deserve Starmer as leader – not the (admittedly milksop, submissive, tactically clueless) , mild socialist, Jeremy Corbyn. The billionaire-funded, neoliberal globalism-promoting, Trilateral Commission’s stooge, Starmer, is a much more representative leader of today’s Labour Party than that old reformist empty posturing socialist, Jeremy Corbyn, and his tiny circle – and that should tell any genuine socialist that they re wasting their lives carrying on a fruitless fight for socialism in such a corrupt and politically bankrupt Party – and one that will now NEVER be a government again now that it has lost the old Labour voters in Scotland, Wales and the Midlands and North for ever.
jpenney, do you agree that you cannot be a Zionist and a Socialist at the same time?
The openly rabid conspiraloon anti-Semite, Jack T, is too bigoted and stupid (and a paid right wing troll) to grasp that what he crudely and ignorantly defines as ‘Zionism’ is in most cases merely the position held to by , amongst many others, Jeremy Corbyn, the PLO, and most Labour Party members, the United Nations, most world governments, and most UK citizens if asked, namely that they simply recognise the right to exist of a mainly Jewish state in the Middle East. This does not necessarily imply that the state of Israel should exist in the boundaries currently controlled by Israel (no it shouldn’t – as umpteen UN rulings have decided) , or imply any support for the illegal occupations carried out by the Israeli state, or to deny the discrimination institutionally carried out by the current Israeli state against both its non-Jewish citizens or its occupation controlled Arab population in the West Bank.
Jack T throws around the multi-faceted/multi meaning, term ‘Zionist’ , with all the many layers of fascist and Nazi dog whistle implied anti-Semitic memes attached, simply because he is both an anti-Semite, and because it serves the disruptive purposes of the paid Right Wing round-the-clock pro Starmer trolls on here that too many Left wingers on here easily get distracted by the issue of Israel and Zionism (in its many, often deeply dodgy, racist meanings).
So , if the term ‘Zionist’ simply means the recognition of the right of a mainly Jewish state to exist in the Middle East – eventually on a two state basis negotiated with the Palestinian people – then it is indeed possible not only to hold that limited, conditional, view , and be not only a socialist but a revolutionary socialist internationalist too, you sad bigoted ignoramus. Denying the right to exist on any basis at all of the state of Israel simply puts you onside with the openly anti-Semitic clerico-fascists of the likes of Hezbollah and Hamas and Daesh. Not good bedfellows for anyone but an anti-Semite. It also puts anyone with this ‘Drive the Jewish population of Israel (and their large minority Druze population supporters) into the sea’, posture right in line for purging by the now rampant Labour Right . Which is exactly why the trolls on here constantly bring the issue up – to get some gullible Lefties on here to make unwise statements that can be used in future expulsions.
Who would want to be in a Party that tricks you into taking a particular stance so they can catch you out and expel you! They trawl social media looking for dissidents, a sort of Stasi type operation. I’m sure they’re working hard this week drawing up the lists. None of them have been named let alone told to tone it down. The snoopers are now the very heart of the Labour Party.
jpenney, the regular contributors here will recognise you as a Zionist troll attempting to gaslight anyone who sees through your failure to admit that Zionism and Socialism are incompatible. Jewish Voice For Labour, Jewish Voice for Peace and many other Jewish organisations know it and you also know it but won’t admit it.
And of course you come out with the usual accusation of ‘anti-Semitism’ to try and deflect the argument away from the truth. Zionism to you is a moving target which you manipulate in an attempt to avoid being held to account.
The worst anti-Semitism is from Zionists who pour scorn on Jews such as Jackie Walker, Jo Bird and others who do not and will not toe the Zionist line. I have Jewish friends in Israel who are persecuted and beaten by the police and the army for rejection Zionism.
I hope ‘signpost’ is reading this, the response from you is typical of that which I described as a typical Zionist outburst.
Zionists and the right wing go hand in hand as we have just witnessed in the destruction of the Corbyn led project. Any flavour of Zionism is Zionism, it begets ethnic cleansing and is therefore totally and completely incompatible with Socialism.
jpenny………I understand that you don’t agree with Jack T that being a Zionist is incompatible with being a Socialist. It seems that Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis does when he brags about preventing Jeremy Corbyn from being PM & instructs AIPAC to stop the ‘Socialist’ Bernie Sanders.
https://youtu.be/GOJGGSaGqtw
Steve Richards, you are obviously incapable of reading my perfectly clear text and understanding what it says , laddie. As is so often the case with politically and historically ignorant supposed Lefties (actually just ignorant Left Liberals) obsessed with Israel. My entire point was that to simply recognise the right to exist of Israel, as does Jeremy Corbyn, the PLO, most Labour Party members, most UK citizens if asked, and most world governments, without necessarily agreeing with Israeli government policies and actions , or the current boundaries of the state, does not in fact make one a ‘Zionist’ at all, just a realist. No one denies the right to exist as territorial states of , for instance, Poland, the USA, Australia , or New Zealand, even though all these states are based on land seizure from long established former occupants and in the case of the USA, Australia, and New Zealand, the mass murder of the native peoples. The attitude of too many on the ‘radical’ Left concerning Israel and the over-casual usage of that multi-layer, deeply dog-whistle anti-Semitic conspiraloon imbued term ‘Zionism’, is deeply saturated with a history of Left anti-Semitism in Europe (with more than a thousand year roots in pre-capitalist society ) . Socialists in the 19th century rightly warned that for too many Europeans ‘anti-Semitism was the socialism of fools’, and rightly so.
So spare me your historically ignorant non-sequitur reference to a few genuinely ‘Zionist’ individuals , ie, people who really do give unconditional allegiance to the right wing Israeli government , the expansionary policies of the Israeli state, and any crimes committed against the Palestinian people. Better if people like you simply stopped throwing the deeply ambiguous and dog-whistle anti-Semitism term ‘Zionism’ around at all, and if you mean ‘unconditional supporters of Israel and all its government’s actions’ , then use that form of words – otherwise you are simply falling into the ideological mire that is European anti-Semitism, an ideology in which the term ‘Zionism’ has become barely concealed code for all that ancient conspiraloon nonsense about ‘world Jewish conspiracies’ and even the ancient ‘blood libel’ poison – which directly fueled the anti-Jewish ideology that powered Nazism and provided the supporting social framework for the WW2 Holocaust. But , given your stupid post, all this will be well beyond you to grasp – given the predilection for too many on the more delusional outer fringes of the ‘Left’ to cling to simplified slogans and broad brush assumptions rather than socialist analysis based on historical knowledge.
Reserve party of British capitalism and imperialism, that’s neat. I will use that and claim that it is my invention. Very good, made me laugh as I rush towards a mass grave outside the town limits. Thanks.
best luck🌹🌹🔴
I would urge all members who regard themselves as on the left to stay within the Labour Party. Now more than ever we see the right on the back foot, the revelations from their own mouths prove the lie that they work tirelessly on behalf of the Labour party and are clearly working to a separate agenda.
We know what that agenda is and should stay in to throw those out as they did spuriously to those on the left. Lets start to treat them like they treat us, after all they are fake socialists within a socialist party.
At a time when the Tories forced by circumstances to spend like drunken sailors prove without doubt the Neo-Liberal lie that governments don’t have their own money, when the facts are the government issues its money and can spend it on anything that is for sale in its own currency.
The Tory lie that our country is just like a household and has to earn or save in order to spend has been completely destroyed as the myth it always was. The right wingers in the party that ridiculed Labour’s last plans for the election have been shown to be in the same camp as the Tories, now is the time to expose their real loyalties along with the disgraceful way they behave.
Seems odd for us to be talking like this in an open forum i.e. how we are going to react to the current issue. I know the whistleblower released WhatsApp dialogue, which is supposed to be private via encryption, but isn’t there a better, more secure location?
itsmespeaking to you. iv thought of that. thought ofvtgat again last night.
That depends mostly on what’s being discussed, no? Nothing of any harm going in here. Many others are discussing Labours irrelevance due to this report.
As for WhatsApp. If any of the devices used were company property (Labour party), then it’s likely their IT policy allows oversight. Also, 2-3 minutes with an unattended device would allow easy copying of the required information. Brute force is also plausible. PC graphics cards are great at smashing passwords if you have the right software.
its a tricky one nvla. the fact is, nothing is secure but we have to organise and communicate somehow. Plus we certainly need to change the narrative eg debunk the A/S LIES. The prob of the last four years has been the failure of jeremy’s team to stand up and stand out. It is a conflict averse culture. That was the source of the “bring people together” crap and “constructive ambiguity” fog. It is a symptom of not taking a stand. So throw water on things… throw a blanket over stuff to pursue the MYTH of broad church etc. NB how many people left the Tory party when johnson gave a clear line. He suspend Soames, Clarke etc the so called party grandees. Which party appears together now???
That is just one example we need to learn from Johnson. We need be forensic, prepared then be assertive. Jeremy hid his Leave beliefs and that is the main reason the wreckers were HANDED what they wanted. I stated that exactly before the election here and elsewhere. It is pointless to me to moan about the right wing and MSM yet not look at our mistakes. There are many and they are fixable.🌹🌹🌹
30 years ago police investigating organised crime used every covert device you’ve ever heard of on a regular basis. Were BlackBerry phones impossible to hack into? No of course not. The Report from GCHQ would include full transcripts. Cameras into cars and houses, listening devices galore. But none of the best the oldest trick in the business – the Infiltrators! Some were embedded for years, even marrying members of ‘terrorist’ organisations. The idea that it isn’t commonplace with nearly every ‘organisation’ you can think of is for the birds. My only point is that you have to be aware of their capabilities and assess how you might circumvent it. The link between police, the intelligence services, media and political parties is continuous and strong. Look at Mr Starmer having lunch with the boss of MI5 when deciding whether or not to prosecute the Agency for kidnap, rendition and torture. No Action Required. It was the same when the case of Assange popped up. To America he must go, what a traitor! And that is of course close to or an actual death sentence. Ruthlessness is very much part of their jobs.
The union unison, created by the merger of three former left wing union s COHSE, NUPE, and NALGO will find it difficult when Reg. Prentice has committed the union to supporting the Labour staff who were involved in destabilising Jeremy Corbin’s leadership and leaking a set of documents to the press before destroying them. Are we to see one of the largest traditional trade unions led by a right wing union leader supporting, no matter how unwillingly a right of centre leader of the LP taking the party to the Right.
Unison could become the replacement in the spectrum of Left and Right of a once much derided union for nurses that was known colloquially as the “Tory Party at the bed side.”
Is it possible that the new Labour women will have the opportunity to surpass Thatcher and May in terms of feminine leadership and encourage more women into politics instead of nursing and other health care professions.
Alternatively many of the competent, articulate, and forceful women in that once derided union might come to realise that that the solution to the problem is a political solution but instead of following some of their misguided sisters into government politics become a force to be reckoned with within the field of union and professional politics, and take a leaf out of the book of the much misunderstood and much misrepresented Florence Nightingale, who was not a “sweetie”, but rather a n effective and ruthless political operator who knew how to use the press , other media, and men in positions of power to achieve her goals.
Another quiet revolution has been going on in the profession of medicine, a profession once dominated by men. The number and proportion of medical practitioners who are women has been rising initially slowly and steadily, and now more quickly and steadily. They have extended the range of areas in which they practise, and they have steadily increased the number of women being recruited into medicine, and the number of medical teachers and specialists to train them. There is scope for collaboration here. The field of curing and caring could be totally transformed combining a workforce which is more politically aware, is informed by the latest science, with the wisdom of a former medical expert who said of the aim of medicine that it was “to cure sometimes, to relieve often, and to comfort always”
.
Labour voters have been told this for many years, 1931 being a notable occasion when the members left in droves. It wasn’t until Labour got its act together that they won the 1945 election but what event will cause Starmer, Mann. Phillips etc etc to get their act together and appeal to the masses? None? They’d rather carry on deliberately losing elections and they can be assured that is going to happen well past the 2030’s.
What event? How about these events? The current massive crisis to which Starmer et al have nothing to say. They are utterly at a loss as capitalism fails spectacularly, because they never believed that it would or could.
absolutely right bevin. Starmer & the parasites have no answers. They never had. But we must never elect a “nice” leader again. “nice” is not enough. We will no the choice is right when they expel Hodge, Starner, Nandy, Blair, Straw … all those implicated in the 800+ page report. 🌹🌹🌹
Not a word about families in high rise flats. There should be organisation of relief breaks in local parks flat by flat. Any organised responsible society should be able to do that. The same with those THOUSANDS of people without an income. Or those knowing eviction notices must soon arrive. A whole class is being sorely pressed. And their children. Nobody says a word, least of all Starmer.
Paul, ‘The same with those THOUSANDS of people without an income. Or those knowing eviction notices must soon arrive. A whole class is being sorely pressed. And their children. Nobody says a word, least of all Starmer’ Exactly, well said, millions locked down with no food, no money, no stock pile. Labour just showered the government with compliments over Sunak’s give away to businesses with the likes of Branson demanding state aid – sickening. Food banks closed, charities, well, they were his last thought. Just shows the priorities.
No arguments for that post from me. Didn’t the members realise the party had changed forever when Clause four was stolen in broad daylight? Best wishes.
Agreed but I think it was too subtle for many members. Even now so many do not have a clue of it’s significance, including a Unison worker I know. Shocking failure of knowledge.
Paul, after the 2019 GE loss Starmer spearheaded for his masters, other tools eg Streeting, were immediately crawling all over MSM blaming Jeremy for the defeat.
But get this, they were already blaming FUTURE defeats on Jeremy having destroyed the party. They see the need to not be reactive or passive but to ACTIVELY FILL THE SPACE with their narrative. You are spot on:
” They’d rather carry on deliberately losing elections and they can be assured that is going to happen well past the 2030’s.”
The open saboteurs… they had no need to hide as in return for their “knifing Jeremy in the front, over and over… over FOUR years, … in return, their wrongdoings were hidden from the membership.
In return for them working OPENLY for Labour’s defeat, they were rescued like Arseworth and Twatson.
In return for their ingratitude, they were offered peerages. In return for their slanders they were not expelled. No instead of expulsion, they were allowed to remain at the heart of the Shadow Cabinet. Instead, expulsions were reserved in the main for anyone who was not a saboteur.
How’s that? Is that the poverty of advice, the spirit draining example we offer to the Palestinians? The Venezuelans? Brazilians? The Philippines? Any victims of horrendous abuse and exploitation and international crimes against them? Is that how the decades of suffering of the Palestinians will be stopped??? No wonder their suffering has not stopped.
Now, after observing the last three years in general and the last six months in particular, the following is clear. The reason that USELESS Trident still exists, WMD Tony Blair oiled its insertion up George Bush then Bush defecated the creature on Iraq, and ALL other evils in the world, is because too many who genuinely wish for a just world, waste all their time and energy wishing, interacting with those already of the same views, appeasing the agents of evil, EVEN rewarding them, AND making symbolic statements of solidarity.
Statements of solidarity are hot air. Useless tiresome hot air. Proof? When there was the opportunity to DEMONSTRATE solidarity with TANGIBLE USEFUL CARE for the many, … computer said no. Offer a peerage to Twatson instead. Allow Keir Starmer to grab the leadership instead. Leave Chris Williamson under a bus. Sit on the most damning evidence of bullying and sabotage. Allow the membership to vote for Starmer.
What is gained by not expressing sharp truths❓❓❓ Nothing… except decades repeating the same damp limp useless hollow inconsistent pathetic virtue signalling and not even having the basic courtesy of a phone call to the many betrayed. There is no need for that to EVER happen again. 🌹🌹🌹
signpostnotwindchimes – “Allow Keir Starmer to grab the leadership instead. Leave Chris Williamson under a bus. Sit on the most damning evidence of bullying and sabotage. Allow the membership to vote for Starmer.
Unfortunately there are far too many people in the party who for some weird reason think they have the right to decide who the membership should be allowed to vote for. Personally I believe that nobody should be dictating who the membership can and can’t vote for.
There is a difference between having an opinion and dictating surely?
Paul – Yes of course there is but it was the use of the word “allow” that prompted my response. Aside from that though you surely must acknowledge that there are many within Labour’s hierarchy who patronise the membership. eg: The rigged candidate selection ‘processes’ for the 2019 GE.
Wow! From the heart. Thanks!
Those stated principles are nothing that the Labour right wouldn’t also claim, and the voters won’t know the difference. Again.
I won’t belong to a party that lies, cheats and denies socialism while it offers to join the Tories in a “Government of National Unity.”
Don’t bother asking, of course I don’t have evidence – but would you bet your house on Starmer not betraying socialism to pretend a shred of relevance?
I think he’d do a Clegg in a second and I’d bet a month’s wages he also thought hard about leaving Labour along with Umunna.
He’s no socialist, bruv.
The Tapeworms have won a total victory. I warned and warned all the decent members about the TWs and the Fiefdom that is Momentum. I was scorned, abused and vilified everywhere. Who in the PLP offered Assange any support. His sirship is not a nice man. He is the opposite. Who voted for him? Who voted for any of them? Lord, the working class is in for a very rough time. Cheers.
Chris Williamson did then and still does. Burgon? But point taken.
Any numbers yet on how many members have actually left LP? I had assumed it was a relatively small number but am beginning to suspect I was wrong.
Not that it matters much, Corbyn era, with huge membership support, didn’t achieve much substantive in democratising the party and the main champion of democratising the party was chucked or rather forced out.
Wouldn’t have thought the figures would be publicised if they are going down. Going up is a different matter 😉
I realise that, just asking info from a supposedly open party in a supposedly democratic system. MSM obviously wouldn’t report a significant fall in membership anyway, now LP has a ‘safe pair of hands’ at the helm.
I think we can say that the Corbyn era was marked by a degree of naivety if the leadership did not think that the right would try to undermine them.
After years in the wilderness, the left was just not organised, and did not seize it’s opportunity. On every front it chose to react rather than put the internal opposition on the back foot.
It is also indicative of our times that the most principled man in British politics could fall victim to basic, simple lying in the MSM.
The country currently has, in that basis, the government it deserves, but it is now up to the left to ask the question: Do we exist to work to change things for the better for all, or to persist in our pathetic disunity?
“Do we exist to work to change things for the better for all, or to persist in our pathetic disunity?”
That is the fifty billion dollar question.
The first thing to remember is the Labour Party is a mass movement, it has property and people resources, what has been lacking has been real political direction.
The right has though shown us the way, they never accepted the party as a broad church and have chosen to dominate it ruthlessly to fit their agenda.
Whilst we have passively allowed this to happen over the decades, it is now time to turn the tables and not run into obscurity like so many left wing factions have in the past.
The right wing for example have been vocal in calling on all those that have openly subverted our party to return to the party, having broken every party rule in the book. So it must be our turn and call for the reinstatement for those wrongly maligned by these treacherous apparatchiks and right wing MPs – where real evidence exists against the backdrop of accusations and downright smears.
We need the numbers now to to get rid of the anti socialists in the party, who will not leave from conviction but will only do so kicking and screaming on the way out.
It seemed it was possible to think this could happen via Corbyn in the period 2015-19 but unbeknown the Party itself was intent on making sure it never happened. I can’t see them saying ‘sorry’ can you? Or even promise not to do it again? No, they are never to be trusted again. To stay in the party many of us want to see proper re organisation which starts with changes at the Centre. But it won’t happen and for that reason as they say on Dragons Den ‘I’m out’. IF they sort it I’d rejoin but this ‘Oh trust us’ from people like Faulkner just make it worse. It has to be that way round or it’s worse than a useless gesture, it’s capitulation.
The most principled man in politics watched his closest allies thrown under the bus. He spent decades in the house yet he was consistently outfoxed. He allowed vile fellow members to be abused and he still remains silent about Julie. He isn’t naive, he just hasn’t got any bottle. I’m sorry but these things are true. Keep safe all.
Maria, “didn’t achieve much” was because the right wing was too stupid and too jealous of Corbyn’s popularity to see that they could have sat quietly on their hands, let him win in 2017 and then worked silently to regain control in government instead of in opposition – because at no time did they not own the party machinery.
In “winning back ‘their’ party” so bitchily, viciously and prematurely they’ve mortally wounded it by alienating the membership, the dumb fucks.
I don’t disagree David McNiven. The point about the party machinery is being reinforced daily atm with the leaked part of the AS report. Some big unions also have similar right wing/pro neoliberal financialized Capitalist ideological capture of their machinery. Such systems reward those who serve it whether ideologically or for self serving reasons. Let’s get on this ladder and see how high we can climb.
We live in system/s of siphoning wealth and power to the top Rentier classes, monopolists and massive corporate entities. This concentration, of often obscene, wealth puts a massive amount of power and influence into fewer and fewer hands and entities with their own ideological agendas of how to consolidate that wealth and power that are able to exert great influence how the systems and society should be restructured to their advantage or ideological belief systems.
In my view such accumulation of such wealth, power and influence in few hands and entities is the antithesis of democracy no matter how appealing the save the world, save the economy stories might appear from individuals and entities that have been prime beneficiaries from these siphoning systems while eschewing their tax and other obligations by any means available.
Some on here have actually hit the nail on the head without knowing it
We stand and fight they run away, It wont take a lot to chase them out the party
Clear red water is what JC left us, would be a crime not to swim in it
Wishful thinking, Doug. Not only is there no-one to replace Jeremy, the MSM is still the most effective propaganda machine in history and it still believes its best interest is served by maintaining the privilege of the few against the interest of the many.
Only by making them fear the consequences of our anger on understanding the extent of their treason can we win without having to massacre them.
The MSM are in trouble – readership has been falling, the Jewish Chronicle for example has recently gone into receivership. In truth none of the printed media have made real profits for many years and subsidised in order to propagandise their agenda rather than spread news.
We can never ever trust them anyway, the call from the left should be to democratise the mass media, and elect those into positions who edit and direct it. A separately elected body should also adjudicate on all disputes of fact.
Leveson 2 anybody? It was promised but then cancelled for ever by the Tories. Corbyn’s Labour wanted it but one can never be sure about the Centre. It’s not at all their cup of tea, all that freedom of speech etc. They like the hatches battened down.
David
We all believe in a free press,
Look at ownership rules and give regulator power to close them down, put Hugh Grant and Prince Harry in charge
What we should be complaining about on here is why we are soft as shite when we get power
Your a fucking anti semite and a racist
I’m sorry you feel that way
Is all we need to understand about our party, square that circle and we wipe out Tories
rotzeichen & Doug, I did write ‘MSM’ and I intended it to include all the mainstream media, not just the BBC – but the BBC is the point of the blue and red Tory propaganda spear.
Pro-establishment bias is more than just ownership, but it could be argued we pay the wages of our enemy’s army in respect of the BBC.
We choose which if any newspaper we buy so the argument for ownership regulation is weaker.
Doug, I believe in a press/media free to tell the truth, but equally free to be jailed for lying when it subverts democracy – which is precisely what it does.
I’ve written many times here and elsewhere that Labour should declare TODAY its intent to legislate, when next in power, imprisonment for biased political reporting – and that the legislation when enacted will operate retroactively.
Make journalists fear future imprisonment for today’s, yesterday’s and tomorrow’s falsehoods and they’ll stop lying for the Tories.
A level playing field is all we need.
I don’t think threats of imprisonment for written opinions is a good idea – ever! The issue is purely political and IF there was a will there would be a way. Tories will protect the Red Tops to the death. We can now assume the real Labour Party are as partisan? Transparency isn’t exactly their thing!
Oh yes, nearly forgot… if the media wishes its previous offences (up to the date of Labour’s announcement) to be taken into consideration it can do so by immediately publishing full and frank retractions of ALL its more serious previous offences, ie those that amount to subversion of democracy and acts of treachery against Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition.
I estimate that’ll take about two editions’ worth of newspaper space and 72 hours of TV time so get more popcorn.
Paul, YOU said “opinions,” not me.
I said “falsehoods, lies and subversion of democracy.”
If you don’t understand the difference – or choose to pretend there is none – then there’s little hope of you ever learning anything.
Doug, let’s just for a moment, look at this ‘clear red water’, that JC left us. If Labour had won the election, what were JC’s policies?
Adopting the daft definition of anti-Semitism and obeying the British Board of Deputies, Trident, adopting the same economic policies as the Tories with a little amelioration, ensuring that capitalism survives, being ‘friendly to business’ remaining in NATO, adopting the EU’s woefully inadequate environmental targets, a controlled immigration policy (whatever that means)….I could go on but won’t. Clear red water? More like murky, shit-coloured pouring from the Tory sewers.
Is a Leadership Challenge a possibility? Right now there are 1000s of angry members up for it.
Doesn’t the leadership itself have to approve a new election?
No
So what is the procedure?
If there is no vacancy it requires that a challenger has the support of 20% of the PLP.
You can find all the details on page 21 of the party’s rule book
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Rule-Book-2019.pdf
Clear red water? The blood of Corbyn loyalists sacrificed for what.and for expediency.Loyalty must be a two way street and weakness in defending a lie has its own rewards…..Arise Sir Keri Starmer right wing leader of a dying ideology Neo liberalism
“.Arise Sir Keri Starmer right wing leader of a dying ideology Neo liberalism”
Haven’t you heard about ‘the new normal’ in and post the Corona crisis? My question is what is this ‘new normal’ going to look like and who will be the beneficiaries? Will we end up in a totalitarian system that benefits the same classes and those that serve those systems?
I note Starmer being a member of the Trilateral Commission has come up on other topics. It’s worth a read of this twitter thread ( a quick ‘taster’) for info about that and other notes of interest re Starmer. Those people interested need to look more into all this.
https://twitter.com/DCKennard/status/1250344315777212416
Maria…..I am appalled and disgusted with a membership that could vote for a knight a nobelman from the right wing of the neoliberal Labour party .I am more horrified that murder ….euthanasia is becoming acceptable in the UK today..Apart from Labour going down the toilet with Sir Keri Starmer…the country seems to be slipping into the sewer when the elderly and the vulnerable are written off not only by the people but by this political system that can only now be challenged from the Streets.
Yours is always the voice of sanity. It’s is absurd to pretend nothing has happened; a bomb has gone off.
Maria, the veneer of democracy has been truly exposed!
@Maria
Thank you for linking this.
@SteveH You need to read that thread
NVLA – I have already read it, thanks.
However if there was any real substance in these allegations and if this organisation presents the threat that you and others claim then why did Jeremy Corbyn twice appoint him as a shadow minister. It simply doesn’t make sense.
Jospeh, I empathise utterly with your concerns about the elderly and vulnerable though I might word it differently.
I am also extremely concerned about SMEs and self employed under this shutdown. I understand SMEs form the biggest employment sector and the longer this goes on the more will go to the wall, increasing unemployment and drastically narrowing choice, variety, innovation and local businesses supporting communities.
I am deeply concerned about civil liberties being taken from us and economy being trashed ‘to save us’, and cannot understand how the Covid law or whatever it is termed was drafted and passed so swiftly… Johnson regime can move swiftly when it wants to but the question is do we have any faith or trust in Johnson’s Gov and state to really have public and societies best interests as a motive? I cannot mention heart in the same sentence hence the use of the word motive.
Anyway, in my way, I am trying to envisage a bigger picture taking into account the forces in our world that have the power and leverage to step in and drive/influence changes they wish to enact.
It took 75 years to see a socialist win the leadership and that only happened because it was seen by the Right as a joke. Corbyn’s huge majority made no difference to the party’s Right rulers who simply directed their attention and money to remove him and his most public supporters, then the Left in general, over four and a half years. Corbyn tried to buy off the Right by sacrificing the Left, he failed to use the membership to take on the Right or put in place any inheritance. The Right will ruthlessly pick off the Left and change the rules to ensure there can never be another Left leader or member control. The Labour Party is dead. As for alternatives. There are none yet, but if the Left walked away from Blair II en masse there soon would be and the LP would be quickly bankrupt of money and an active membership.
I agree – but can’t see how it was Corbyn’s fault! Yes a new organisation will emerge from this wreckage. There is one obvious candidate to lead it, Chris Williamson who must now doubt if he’ll ever be reinstated after years of ‘investigation’ trying to decide what on Earth he meant about AS behaviour. Same with dear old Ken. Both victims of the anti Labour Labour Party!
Very well said Rita.
Unfortunately Rita, what would happen is the New New Labour Party would return with the begging bowl to people like Lord Sainsbury, Eccelstone, the Hinduja brothers and all the other parasites who live off the public to replace members donations and naturally these parasites would demand a Quid Pro Quo. As to the question of members doing the donkey work, well they will turn to the hard right fraction in the party to do the slog and use corporate donors dosh to hire people, just as they do in the Tory party. The name of the game of course is to return to the democratic socialist Labour Party to both wings of the same party type of circus politics as they had under Blair, Brown and to a lesser degree Miliband and as in the USA. The name of this party that New Labour and the Tories belonged to is called the business party. The “ moderates, centrists “,Blairites, Progress and Labour First strategy has always been to use underhanded dirty tricks to force an artificial majority by alienating the left, ie smears, slime, AS, witch-hunts and finally to have a Hobson’s choice for a leader who has been bought and paid for long before he became an MP. By leaving en mass, the left would play into the hands of these charlatans who pretend to care about the working class when in reality all they care about is : power, prestige and their own back pockets.
I’m not sure what you are saying? That the Left should stay in a crumbling corrupt organisation because their rich donors will take up the slack and carry on as normal and there’s nothing we can do about it? I must have got it wrong?
That is certainly a possibility, a probability even, but it would also fatally taint the party as the rich man’s party. The unions would be under huge pressure to end all funding and connections. It would even be a step too far for Unison and the GMB do not you agree? The Right are happy to rule the roost, but not so willing to do the leg work. Whatever, I see this as a better course of action than hitting our heads against a brick wall while waiting to be picked off. And please, do not say solidarity, I saw precious little for the victims. Ask Ken, Jackie, Marc, Chris and all the others. What they achieved was through their own blood sweat and tears.
Just read an interesting comment over on Zelo Street from Anon @12.47
https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2020/04/labour-leak-stupidity-problem.html
Could the leak, coming after Starmer’s election rather than before and which most probably would have damaged him, be a simple ruse designed to make it look as though he is bringing the party under control?
Personally, I wouldn’t put anything past him on previous form as DPP along with his willingness to accept the demands of the BoD together with his membership of the Trilateral Commission, neither of which are exactly notable bastions of left wing politics.
Or the leak could be a reminder to the new leader that if they could constrain and remove a massively elected ex-leader, they could do it to him.
We don’t know, so we’ll judge him by how he manages the leak.
So far he’s not doing well. In fact he’s doing everything wrong. As wrong as it could be.
qwertboi, “Or the leak could be a reminder to the new leader that if they could constrain and remove a massively elected ex-leader, they could do it to him.”
It could be. If it is, then that one of the exact problems ie be reactive rather than active. How odd to throw away Winning the leadership, two coups, yet sit on this vast reservoir of evidence with the hope it would be useful LATER? Meanwhile thousands have been slandered and suffered???
It reminds me of a Question Time i heard over the radio, when the Bruce provided three opportunities to present his case. Think it was AS again. On the 3rd or 4th attempt, Gardner seemed to take something out of his pocket as evidence. Bruce then said some thing like YOU GOT ME. There was no pursuit by Gardner about such a response by Fiona Bruce. It all disappeared in a jovial its all a game sort of way.
Similarly early on in JC’s leadership there was a leak of a grid of supporters. I always suspected that the list was released as a threat. There was no intention to act. The whole four years victories have occurred between long stretches of hoping the bastards will eventually be won over … after FOUR years and 800+ pages of utterly disgusting behaviour. And yet now we know Starmer and Rayner could have been stooped. It is just to give people the benefit of doubt. I did. Many did. We have been betrayed BEYOND MEASURE.
It is clear that over 40 years, the Left has given ground, parroted hollow noises of niceness and gentleness but only for bastards. Every person in the dossier should gave been relieved of their positions snd expelled. If Chris Williamson and thousands were expelled then why are Hodge, Phillips, Blair and Mandelson still in the party?
He certainly is not doing well and never will. The only way to stop him and the rest is to stay and get him and his gang out. We will have the same infiltrators in a new party. Nothing would please the right more than if we leave. The irony is that i never trusted them and don’t. But my urgent suggestions that we act decisively, were almost always met with damp limp responses in my CLP. Hence my energetic rages about “dead weights” “jellied weakness” etc. Over and over the right were blatantly breaking every rule, suspending meetings etc trying to get our success overturned, and still my colleagues almost always chose softly softly approaches so as “not to get bad press from the MSM” as if we were not getting bad press already.
The solutions seemed clear to me. It is obvious in most areas of life, that appeasement and timidity cause defeats. But yet just like Jeremy and his team many still fail to accept that. Never wanting to learn. TOTALLY WEIRD. I put my hands up… STUMPED. No doubt of what is necessary but it cannot be done without determined focused people to fight intelligently. Reading some of the posts today makes the task seem more challenging than yesterday. And the task cannot be achieved if we dont look at what WE could do differently.
It is easy to feel frustrated and complain. But we each have to scrutinise our own actions. What could we do differently. How about also what do winners do that we don’t. If the right have been able to survive after JC win and TWO coups, then how did they do that? Did we help them or are they the big bad person who smashed us over the head??? It still appears to me that it is more the former. It is we who have shown no intelligent realistic action, eg sitting on the report off GROSS behaviour, bringing the party into disrepute. Can we really with a straight face blame the MSM or the parasitic right wing for that. Failing to expel Hodge, Campbell etc sooner there is a long list of things that a Left controlled NEC and Leader could have done. They did not. They were afraid of a hostile MSM. They had a choice. The MSM is still hostile. What was there to lose??? The MSM & the Right did not MAKE JC and the NEC do things. They took the route of cowards. They chose to act like windchimes. We must take responsibility.
Starmer and Rayner must do everything we ask. They wont. We must remain to have votes to kick them out. To leave our party to them when they did the opposite seems nonsensical. But then again, i’m seeing things as newbie to political involvement. I am looking at the challenge as one would deal with challenges in the real world. We do not sit on a report about a toxic infection for FOUR years until the infection the cancer, the heart disease kills you. That is not professional behaviour. A bricklayer, a baker, a pilot, a dressmaker, an engineer, a hair dresser no one would act like that. We must take responsibility and fix it. Make OUR party what we want it to be. If that is a pipe dream, it is less a pipe dream than complaining from the sidelines. Or giving the right a free run to finish us off.
Last Wimbledon Ladies final showed something. The winner swiftly recovered from every single error made. That struck me. Following only on the radio, it felt clear that each micro defeat was in a flash, put in the past and the winner marched onwards.
Clearly others have different experiences and backgrounds. Yet as i type this, the sharp disappointment and disgust after reading McCluskey’s last paragraph, already feels like the past. My skin was tingling and eyes felt moist, yet in just minutes, onwards and towards. Why? Nature? Nurture? Both? Perhaps, but definitely logic. It feels illogical to believe that we can’t do what the right did, ie get control of our party. Ot feels illogical that despite overwhelming evidence, of the Green Party’s lone MP, The dumped Limp Dems, Super funded CUCKS, Tinges, Communist Party etc etc etc, it seem utterly weird despite everything, that anyone should feel we should leave proven disgusting creatures with our subs, our data, our infrastructure, our buildings … ALL the assets to a minority. It makes no sense except this it shows how a minority has successfully been able to exploit the majority for thousands of years.
To each their own. There are people who believe the world is flat. In 1492 Columbus still took on the status quo with an outrageous idea “sail west to get to the east.” Oh how they laughed. Queen Isabella and Ferdinand gave funds and a rebellious crew of convicts!!! He made three trips. The rest is history. History is now. We can be the ones to write it.
I propose Skwawkbox Extra for those who are on board with that. The bastards are awful. I can fight them. I cannot get my head around merchants of doom and defeat. My bad. Time and energy is too precious to endure can’t dos or replacing a possible pipe dream with another one. We need a collection of focused determined intelligent fighters not a rabble, nor moaners. We need people who realise victories are not handed on a plate. It is we who must fix what went wrong. Don’t repeat those errors.
The enemies in and out charge me up. Negativity, defeatism, victim paralysis run my charge down. Not to mention the time that could be spent improving. Sussing out those we can support etc. Getting rid of Starmer, McClusk etc 🌹🌹🌹
Signpostnotwindchimes – A wonderful analysis. Right at so many different levels. Thanks.
Bottom line? The RW in Labour are entryists. They behave and function like malignant cancer cells: they have their own metabolism, their own agenda, their own energy source. Their health improves as Labour’s reduces. They are intent on the left’s removal the host they have targeted, the PLP.
Why do they need this? Because our socialism is thee aantigen to their third-way centrist oncology.
With hindsight I believe the ONLY mistake that Jeremy and his SCG musketeers made was to NOT recognise that these entrists need to kill Labour before they can succeed. Their mindset is that of entitled bullies. If they call pro-Palestinian rights ‘antisemitism’ then it is so! Their MSM collaborators make it so.
You are right – EVERY LEFT MEMBER of Labour must stay and thus provide the antibodies to this malignant invasive third-way centrist cancer. Oxygen and transformative socialist values. These are the antigens. They are result of our involvement/participation in Labour. We provide the oxygen, the transparency, the intellectual and moral vigour which is endemic to our socialism and which is antagonistic to the RW centrism cancer.
If we remain in Labour, apoptosis – the programmed cell death of these centrist cancer cells – will occur. We must stay in Labour, flourish and oxygenate the invasive RW threat. Our very presence provides the oxygen, the transparency and the legitimacy that kills the centrist cancer contagion.
The timing of the leak is certainly odd,it would have been much more effective 2 weeks before the end of the vote for leader rather than a similar period after, from the Left’s point of view.Those on the right of British politics,including the “intelligence” agencies,might be looking to put the Labour party down for a political generation.Remember,these people have no sympathy for anything that smells even faintly of social democracy,never mind socialism.The question remains, for the left,stay in and fight and ensure no victory at the next election,or start a new party and,if successful,have the same effect.
The effect may be the same but I’d prefer any efforts I make or money I transfer to be for something I can believe in. To stay would be like capitulating.
how odd to allow Starmer to win THEN publish this 800 + page report now? Why sit back and allow members to suffer injustice and not raise a finger to help them? Why allow the myth to develop and stick to the members???
signpostnotwindchimes – But Keir Starmer isn’t mentioned in this report.
John, I am not sure the leak was timed, it just happened, due I think to the fear that Starmer was not going to do anything about it. Secondly we don’t know when party officials received the actual Wattsapp download, with all the information on.
What is important is that we make it absolutely clear to every fair minded member of the party that this kind of behaviour can’t ever be tolerated and those involved have to be routed out. They are the cancer in the party, they even deceived people into thinking the second referendum policy was genuine, when those of us that campaigned against it, pointed out it was only a diversion and served Libdem’s purpose not Labour’s.
There is a massive amount of MPs that clearly do not and never have served the interests of the party, they are of course very silent at the moment, because some are definitely involved and others more than just sympathetic.
What we are talking about here is internal corruption within the Labour Party, and the vile methods they used to gain control of the party. No doubt lots of members thought that because they supported the EU that these people who were leading the fight were on their side of the argument, when in fact they were merely using it as a pretext of isolating and getting rid of Jeremy Corbyn. Which they succeeded in doing.
Those members must now put aside their vision of Europe,(which is in fact now over, especially when Johnson does his deal with Trump) and realise what has really been going on, and has to be swiftly resolved, meaning expulsions on a large scale for those that actively worked to remove Jeremy Corbyn from the leadership.
That should be our core objective, because we just must not tolerate dishonesty, deceit, and downright treachery in the party, not to mention the real and explicit racism coming from the mouths of the perpetrators.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/g1vvm6/leaked_labour_report_exposes_compete_shitshow/
Dunno. He looked initially like he was going to protect the culprits Even he must now recognise the impossibility of doing so.
P.S. See he’s had to concede the NEC will oversee his proposed investigation.
During the run up to the last election, I, as a member of the Labour Party, was very concerned about the Labour Party’s supine reaction to the anti-Semitic allegations and in particular, the suspending of Chris Williamson and others. I wrote to the LP and I asked for a response.
The response was that my membership was cancelled. This despite my making frequent donations each time this was requested. I didn’t realise I’d been removed from the party until querying why I wasn’t receiving voting documents for the leadership and deputy leadership. I was told my membership had ended in June 2019. Good of them to tell me.
So, as far as I’m concerned, the Labour Party can eff itself. Enjoy Sir Keir and other Blairites now back in charge. When/if a truly socialist, progressive party, without the likes of Starmer, Kinnock, Eagle, Milliband et al exists, ill join. But to make the effort only to be betrayed again, it isn’t going to happen.
I am reading the AS report a bit at a time and it is making me very angry. I feel like resigning but then if we all did that we would be handing over the party to the right thereby letting them achieve their goal. So I’m staying put and will join the fight back.
They have achieved all of their goals or have they got something on the back burner? A government of national unity, perhaps? No party of loyal opposition? I dread to think. Treble gongs all round.
Reading all these comments here always makes me feel uplifted ands I thank you all.
The only way to get a press that has integrity and being non biased is to move away from corporations owning them. I’m thinking more of the co-operative model, owned by those who work for it. The Guardian through the financial independence of the Scott Trust with £1B in the bank should be totally independent of governments or outside influence but has become corrupt in a neoliberal management takeover. The Herald now called The S** was owned by the unions. It is clear that unless the unions step up and provide funding for a national socialist newspaper both in print and digital, as well as tv/radio that Can reach every home and promote socialist values that those outside the Labour Party Can recognise as being on their side, we are not going to turn this around. We also need to have on notice within the party if you try to throw an election or undermine the party in any way you’re out.
If we had done that, Blair, Mandelson, Campbell, Watson, Hodge etc. Would have been out now. We need a purge and the membership should make plain to Keir that if he doesn’t purge those who worked against the party, be they staff or MP’s there’s no hiding place for them. Same goes for Unison members, they need to get rid of Prentis and his enablers as well!
But it’s pie in the sky isn’t it? Starmer and his crew aren’t going to resign and apologise are they? He made it clear this morning he wanted an end to factionalism so said the members should unite and bury their differences. Which is fine for the RW of course. Better to resign before you’re chucked out which is the next step.
I have been a supporter all my life, and fought for socialism, but at this point I just feel that the Labour party is doing more harm than good.
Good luck with your’e fight, I wish you well, but I will not be part of it.
The labour party is broken beyond repair and all we do by staying is encourage them into thinking this is Ok, they will not get my subs or indeed my vote.
I will probably vote green, although even then I have misgivings, my only hope is that a proper alternative will appear, but i will not give up another 4 years of my life propping up the sort of outright bastards who are running the party now.
I would remind you that Wes Streeting and Jess Phillips were brought into the cabinet and I am telling you now, I wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire, Wooden Top bringing them in was a deliberate insult.
They still believe that the centrist shit they spout is relevant in a world on the brink of climate catastrophe, and devestated by a pandemic.
No more, my relationship is beginning to feel like a father who tells me he loves me and then sneaks into my bedroom to rape me when my mother isn’t around, worse i think she knows but pretends not to.
I totally understand your feeling. I say resign and cancel the DD and let’s see what happens.
One other thing, it is quite clear that a lot of the unions are run by the same shit awful people, so no faith in them either, over 40 years involved in politics and nothing has changed, in fact it has progressively a step at a turn changed into the American dream, I have never been so angry in my whole life and if Wooden Top or any of his cronies turn up on my doorstep it will be an effort to keep my hands from encircling their neck and squeezing.
The worst of it is my canditate is a genuine Corbynite and it will hurt not to vote for him, but I will not I’m afraid
Unite behind Keir Starmer to cleanse Labour’s shame – Len McCluskey
The whole labour movement will be shocked by the revelations contained in the leaked report concerning how Labour HQ has handled complaints over antisemitism over the last few years. Even those of us well aware of the dislike many officials held for Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership did not imagine that their bile would go so far as actively wishing for – even working for – Labour’s defeat in elections, including the 2017 general election.
https://labourlist.org/2020/04/unite-behind-keir-starmer-to-cleanse-labours-shame/
“Labour can, will and must move on. Transparency and accountability will be key. I am confident that Keir Starmer and Angie Rayner will be guided by these values, and will allow no return of the poisonous environment which prevailed when the hard right of the party last ran the machine we all pay for.”
Thanks for posting this Steve H. I don’t know wether to cry or scream. I cannot believe after scanning the whole article, that McCluck could come to the above conclusion. After four years of puzzles, this one tempts rage. Is McCuck being serious or is everything the weirdest dream?
I praised McCuck before. Someone put me right…i’m so enraged that i can’t remember but LEN McCLUSKEY U R HAVING A LAUGH. U DISGUST ME‼️‼️‼️ No wonder people are disheartened.
STARMER AND RAYNER ATE PART OF THE PROBLEM‼️ THEY WORKED FOR THE DEFEAT OF WHICH YOU WRITE‼️ U R HAVE NOW REAVEALED THAT YOU WERE AND PART OF THE DISGUSTING PROBLEM‼️
If this is the treachery that some of the posters have experienced for 30, 40 years, then no wonder people have been worn down. A FULSOME APOLOGY TO ALL who may have interpreted my attempts to encourage, in a negative way. Will have to go to bed now. Extremely long last two days. Excuse any typos.
signpostnotwindchimes – I have quite frequently expressed my opinions about McCluskey on these pages. As I didn’t wish to influence any responses I posted the link without comment.
Len is clearly taking the piss.
The GMB’s response has also proved to be enlightening.
https://labourlist.org/2020/04/gmb-labour-party-staff-branch-welcome-investigation-into-leaked-antisemitism-report/
The majority of this thread must be accompanied by the popping of champagne corks in the right-wing wine bars!
… at this self-prtrait of the ‘Left’ as a ragged-arsed army of retreating defeatists with no coherence
Great!
Sadly so, but the rw who are most happy about this are not our opponents, but ‘the enemy within’, the people in Labour for whom if you a micrometer to the left of Tony Blair (and that even includes Keir Starmer) you are a ‘Trot’ and ‘looney left’.
I wondered when you’d show up to condemn anyone with a different point of view to yours.
Maybe the corks are popping because they feel confident they’ve still got your arses right where they can keep you under control and the funding still coming in? Step out of line and you’ll be expelled without so much as a by-your-leave.
All too often I’ve heard the talk of solidarity but when push comes to shove there aren’t always too many left standing.
Way back in the 70s I worked for British Rail, which then was a closed shop so had no choice but to belong to a union (TSSA). When I asked if they could help with a minor issue I was basically told to get lost. I didn’t expect them to do any more than some representation on my behalf, to throw a bit of weight behind my case but they just weren’t interested.
No doubt if, or more likely when, you fail to extirpate the grip of the right wing over the party I expect you’ll claim it was all the fault of those who saw the writing on the wall and decided enough was enough.
Sometimes, however, when the odds are too great or the resistance too strong, it makes far more sense to retreat and regroup and find another point of attack rather than expend one’s forces on a futile attempt at battering the enemy into submission.
On the other hand, of course, you may be right and there is still all to play for and you do eventually come out on top. That being the case, I’d be the first to admit I was wrong – I just wonder if you could do the same if you fail.
Meanwhile, I shall be looking to other avenues, while wishing you the best of luck in those battles to come.
I think I agree with much of what JP had to say and after 40 years Labour membership (apart from leaving over Iraq) I left Labour 10 minutes after the Leadership result as planned (despite Mr S only getting one third of the eligible voters but RBL blew it at a stroke on the first day of the campaign by agreeing to the BOD demands).
I am a left wing democratic socialist and from a working class background; I also had poverty for the first half of my life until I was the first in my working class family to go to University then did pretty well in life but never deserted my class and Left wing democratic socialist ideas.
And perhaps because of our experiences and reading some of us hold a candle for socialism and thus are wary of groups offering simple solutions.
Yet I think now is the time for a Left Wing Democratic Socialist Party that fights for Left wing democratic socialism WITH diverse working people and not like the bourgeois (often Trot vanguardist groups) FOR diverse working people under their top down leadership and ONLY their leadership!
That I believe has been the root cause of the defeat of Left for what 50 years?
But the good news is I think after all these years I have found the secret of socialism: HONESTY!
There is a little Left Movement energing (which I hope isn’t a bit of a personality cult around the excellent Chris Williamson) with an awful name ‘The Left Resitance’ but I think in every town and city a meeting for socialists who have left Labour and the Labour Left (with no commitment) could take place to explore setting up a new Left Wing Democratic Socialist Party (once this Covid crisis is over).
This could be a first step but here’s the rub, members of Left groups would not be invited and before you speak you have to say groups you are involved in, it’s called being HONEST!
And perhaps you will never win diverse working people to socialist ideas by being dishonest!
There could be hundreds of thousands of homeless socialists out there now and attracting a few unions would be ideal too so we could give it a try as diverse working here (and in every country) deserve better than Right Wing Labour parties! Solidarity!
Why is it not possible to simply transplant what has been achieved in the last 5 years under Jeremy Corbyn into a new party? What are the advantages of remaining in the dysfunctional, corrupt mess that is The Labour Party? There would be 30+ MPs and 300K members. Something very strong could be up-and-running in no time. Why is the Labour Party considered the only vehicle for left-wing politics in the UK? In reality, Labour has been in decline since the days of Kinnock. The Thatcherite faction will never relinquish control and waged a war of attrition throughout the Corbyn years. They are aided and abetted by the MSM and the British Establishment. How long did it take the SNP to replace Labour in Scotland? Why couldn’t a new left party do the same in England and Wales? Corbyn’s Labour was not hard-left, it was simply trying to introduce a mixed economy or reintroduce the postwar, pre-Thatcher consensus. These policies are popular! Right-wing journalist Peter Oborne stated this! The Labour brand is now tarnished beyond repair. By-elections would not be necessary in this scenario as the policy programme would simply be a continuation of the 2017/19 Labour manifestos that Starmer is about to abandon. I’m pretty sure we are about to find out that Starmerism is approximately 2mm to the left of Blairism. Please, Corbyn, Trickett, Lavery, Tarry, Foster and everyone else decent in the Labour Party just leave and take 2/3 of the membership with you before the momentum (sorry) we’ve built up under Jeremy fizzles away!
Paul, if you read carefully what I said. It would be a repeat of the NL era when because of falling membership, Blair and co used corporate money and skewed the policies even more so to them. If the members fell into the charlatans trap of resigning, Starmer would simply replace the members subs with corporate money and skew the policies to them as Blair did. As it stands the vast numbers of members blunts the charlatans plans but to resign en mass will leave the left with no voice. The U.K. is covered with small inconsequential left minute parties!
The Labour left will need to figure out how the Labour right regularly kicks its backside where internal elections are concerned, organisation & discipline > righteous outrage every time
The only Sensible way to be rid of Middle and Upper class destroyers of the Socialist Labour Party is for all Socialist Left Wing MPs and all Socialist Union Members call EGMs all over Britain to show the Middle and Upper Class Union Leaders they will no longer be Led by Men and Women who wouldn’t know Poverty or Hardship if it jumped at them and bit their Arse and treat their Members with Contempt. The Left must leave the Starmer led New Labour Party and Form The Socialist Labour Party of The People because if these 5th Columnists can destroy the like of a man who should have been PM I speak of Jeremy Corbyn of course. This move must rip the Heart from New Labour and seize The Moment destroy these Tories in Labour Clothing show the population exactly who they are and who they really represent give them double doses of their own medicine tell and show everyone Just how insidious the Right really is. These MPs deserve no Respect and certainly do not deserve the Title of Labour MPs, Leave NEW LABOUR this will Finish Blairism and New Labour for Good.
Anyone else see Professor Michael Sandel on Newsnight tonight talking to Emma Barnett?
He was discussing the possibility of CV19 causing a rethink of how society values and rewards different types of employment – that we’re being forced to recognise the essential nature of previously undervalued jobs. The example he picked was delivery drivers but he was making the case that low paid workers can be more essential than the more highly paid, and that the university educated take undue credit for their privilege.
I’d normally expect the suggestion to be given short shrift on the BBC but she let him speak and didn’t seriously challenge him.
Not the only interesting development either.
The right may not have pushed the left into the long grass for a generation after all.
Capitalism recognised the value of workers Labour many century’s ago , that’s how we ended up with slavery.The establishment are now working on ensuring that the workforce have no representation and they are suffering in that.Starmer is a plant and the virus will be used to push through an even more controlled society permanently. Fear and destruction are the tools of the British establishment and we have voted again for a large helping of misery.
Rita, the model for the New New Labour Party under the Trilaterals man, Keir Starmer has already been tested under Blair. Unity is not the key but neither is resigning en mass and allowing the “ moderates, centrists “, Blairites, Labour First, Progress and all the other charlatans to have a free reign which is what would happen. Solidarity amongst the democratic socialist Labour Party members is paramount now!
Why is it not possible to simply transplant what has been achieved in the last 5 years under Jeremy Corbyn into a new party? What are the advantages of remaining in the dysfunctional, corrupt mess that is The Labour Party? There would be 30+ MPs and 300K members. Something very strong could be up-and-running in no time. Why is the Labour Party considered the only vehicle for left-wing politics in the UK? In reality, Labour has been in decline since the days of Kinnock. The Thatcherite faction will never relinquish control and waged a war of attrition throughout the Corbyn years. They are aided and abetted by the MSM and the British Establishment. How long did it take the SNP to replace Labour in Scotland? Why couldn’t a new left party do the same in England and Wales? Corbyn’s Labour was not hard-left, it was simply trying to reintroduce a mixed economy or the postwar, pre-Thatcher consensus and yet these policies were labelled extreme. Right-wing journalist Peter Oborne stated this! The policies are popular! The Labour brand is now tarnished beyond repair. Blairite imbeciles have done this. By-elections would not be necessary in this scenario as the policy programme would simply be a continuation of the 2017/19 Labour manifestos that Starmer is about to abandon. Rest assured that we are about to find out that Starmerism is indistinguishable from Blairism. Please, Corbyn, Burgon, Trickett, Lavery, Tarry, Butler, Carden and everyone else decent in the Labour Party just leave and take 2/3 of the membership with you before the momentum (sorry) we’ve built up under Jeremy fizzles away!
I couldn’t agree with you more.
Dave Christos, I think you are being rather optimistic if you think there are anywhere near 30 Socialist MPs in Labour. There are those who claim to be Socialists but when it comes to crunch, such as when Chris Williamson needed their support, where were they? Answer, hiding their ‘solidarity’ under a bush in case they were called upon to show it!
The Labour Party has funds and assets which were contributed to by ALL of its members, why should they be handed over to the right wing without a fight?
I don’t disagree that a new left wing group is required but should it be inside or outside the Labour Party? The dificulty for the left, is that there are so many versions of ‘left’ and because they (we) cannot agree, there will always be arguments and splits. The beauty about Jeremy Corbyn is that because he was and is such a genuine person, most of the left factions could unite around him. People like him very rarely come along.
By the way, the SNP is not a new Party, thirty years ago, my Scottish friends used to call them the other Tory Party, although since then they have changed somewhat.
The optimism is all yours in assuming that anything like what happened under Corbyn will be allowed to happen again. Objective analysis shows that The Labour Party is utterly dysfunctional and corrupt at both local and national level. The right retain control through Machiavellian means. The leaked report shows one aspect of it, in my opinion. I’m sure there are WhatsApp groups amongst the Blairite PLP that, if exposed, would show identical abuse, corruption and fraud if exposed. The PLP worked in tandem with Labour HQ to undermine Corbyn. Were the left relentlessly working to stop Blair/Brown governments? No. Jonathan Ashworth was in the shadow cabinet while he and his wife worked against what he claimed to be advocating! Corbyn should have ensured the PLP was remodelled in his image as Blair did; mandatory deselections enabled by the members. This would have enabled some possibility of the left retaining some influence. Instead he worked with people intent on deposing him. Jeremy is great but the kinder, gentler politics thing was delusional.
Dave Christos, the glue that holds myriad of left socialists together is the commonality of fighting for a better, fairer more just society which under Labour has achieved a little more to decent society compared to the pre WW2. This was achieved by perseverance, hard toil sweat and tears and by convincing the working class that there could be a better world for all. Without the working class, the Labour party no matter what it is called, who it is run by will never be in a position to do this.
Jeremy Corbyn revitalized that belief that act of faith by creating a critical mass of support. The notion that 300,000 ,members will resign en mass and form a socialist party singularity from scratch or even over the next few years will not happen. Experienced of other small left wing parties has shown this to be the case. By the Balkinisation of the Labour membership it play right into the game plan of the establishment and their fellow travellers amongst the small fraction of the right wing malcontents in the Labour party. We are the majority they are the minority let’s not forget that only by unity amongst the left can we blunt Starmer and his cabals policies. It’s a long war and the loss of the 2019 GE is but one battle. Time is on our side. The under 40s support Labour by a long way and many that voted for the Tories have seen their best days. Stay solid stay united.
So in your opinion we are stuck with BlairIt’d again, I certainly will not support that again with anything, money or support. Iwould rather leave.
If Jeremy Corbyn and all the left Labour mps anounced that in the light of this despicable report they were leaving Labour, staying in Parliament and starting a new party to continue the work of the last five years, vowing to replace the corrupt Labour Party with genuine opposition to the government, representing the many, it would have 100k members overnight. Would probably get 20% support in the polls overnight, too.
If Jeremy Corbyn and all the left Labour mps anounced that in the light of this despicable report they were leaving Labour, staying in Parliament and starting a new party to continue the work of the last five years, vowing to replace the corrupt Labour Party with genuine opposition to the government, representing the many, it would have 100k members overnight. Would probably get 20% support in the polls overnight, too.
It’s what Chukka and others did in that earlier attempt to break the party. No need for by-elections they all said and there’s 4 years to go this time. I’d think by-election by by- election, no need to rush. Who is the hero to step forward first? Once the ball is rolling…
Dave – Have you asked Jeremy Corbyn how he feels about deserting the Labour Party.
SteveH 16/04/2020 at 3:18 pm · ·
Dave – Have you asked Jeremy Corbyn how he feels about deserting the Labour Party.
steve h -Have you asked Jeremy Corbyn how he’d feel about voting for bliarist principles above socialist ones?
The Toffee (597) at 4:01 pm
Unlike you I don’t need to ask the question because his consistent voting record already makes his views very clear to all. Have you any evidence that Jeremy has ever shown any propensity to desert the party he has been a lifelong member of.
Jeremy Corbyn stuck with Labour even during the darkest days of the right wing Tory elite New Labour party. He knew then as he knows now that nothing is written in stone that Tory fellow travellers will always be in the ascendancy. No decent left wing political party was ever built by being faint hearted or by making a split from the main caucus in the UK. Look what happened to the myriad of small minute left wing parties that dot the political landscape and of course the right wing SDP under the gang of 4, Jenkins, William’s, Rodgers and William’s had the same notion. Like their left party counterparts destined for the political wilderness .
But the Gang of 4 were going in an entirely different direction, to the right to be more like the Tories and while the media fell over for them there was never a glimmer of mass support – as their subsequent history showed. They seem closer to the Chukka type of chancer going in the same direction. A left movement could have mass support which is very different. Agreed, much would depend on who was in it!
Paul – But who would lead this new party?
We will have to see! Patience!
Paul – Or in other words you haven’t got past the day-dreaming stage yet,
I totally agree. The chances of the RW capitulating or getting sanctioned out ot their fiefdoms is very remote.IF it. happened then fantastic but they have alsays been the majority.
Leave.
What the LabourLeaks have shown me is that the party hierarchy hate blacks, hate Asians, hate Muslims, hate the working classes, hate the mentally disabled, hate peace campaigners, hate left wing Jews, although they love the right wing ones even though they’ll never ever vote Labour, hate immigrants and consider anybody to the left of Gordon Brown to be a Trot.
What you members on here – real or otherwise – fail to realise is that there are millions of people like me out in the real world who dutifully place an X against the Labour candidate on the ballot paper at every national and local election even when scumbags like Rachel Reeves turn around and sneeringly say that her party will not be standing up for poor people like myself.
I’m 65, I’ve voted Labour all my adult life but will never support them again. The party is rotten to the core and is now just a Tory tribute band beloved of the Establishment because it gives the illusion of choice.
Here here! I totally agree.
I’m 73 and have voted Labour in every local and national election since 1970 – except in 2019 when I couldn’t bring myself to vote for V Sharma in Southal believing him to be a Corbyn hater. He was very obviously part of the movement to ensure C never won an election. He was voted against re-selection in 2019 by local members on the basis of racism, laziness and anti Corbynism BUT the process was abandoned by the Party because it apparently took 13 weeks to send and receive the letter about de-selection by which time of course the election was called. There were definitely murky goings on with one anti Sharma ward getting set up to claim identities weren’t being checked. A bunch of devious liars. You can’t trust them an inch.
”What you members on here – real or otherwise – fail to realise is that there are millions of people like me out in the real world who dutifully place an X against the Labour candidate on the ballot paper at every national and local election even when scumbags like Rachel Reeves turn around and sneeringly say that her party will not be standing up for poor people like myself.
I’m 65, I’ve voted Labour all my adult life but will never support them again. The party is rotten to the core and is now just a Tory tribute band beloved of the Establishment because it gives the illusion of choice.”
AMEN TO THAT, BROTHER!!
YOU THREE STOOGES READING THIS? ESPECIALLY YOU, STEVE H.
WHO’S VOICE ”DOESN’T MATTER” , EH?
Toffee – You have an unfortunate habit of misrepresenting what people have said when you are unable to build a cogent argument. As you well know I was commenting that because you weren’t a member of the party you didn’t have a say in our internal elections. I seem to remember that at the time one of your excuses for not being a member is that most members would your social behaviour unacceptable.
correction – most members would find your social behaviour unacceptable.
I’m ‘misrepresenting’ nowt, sonny.
You told me that my opinon doesn’t matter.
Doesn’t matter, full stop.
And when you told me that you’d forgot all about elections and such, thereby betraying yourself to the fact you didn’t take into consideration the electorate when you championed slimeball starmer’s reneging on the promise to respect the referendum result – despite repeated warnings.
Unlucky, div.
I have voted dutifully for most of my life but not all of it. Until 1980 I had always voted Labour but at age 35 had never been a member of a political party. The SDP came on the scene and I was initially impressed and joined, and even stood as a councillor but was not elected (thank goodness). I was soon disillusioned primarily as a consequence of the performance of Dr Owen on anything other than heath. I left and joined the Labour Party.
I was more comfortable in that Party until the arrival of tony Blair. Having tried and rejected a possibly honest but perhaps misguided attempt to form an SDP by four labour MPs I was unwilling to participate in a dishonest attempt to create an SDP within the LP, and so I left ,returning after Blair ceased to be the leader and PM. I remained in the party though it was a bit of a struggle at times, and am still a member, but I am not sure for how long.
I have faith in the current General Secretary, but no longer have faith in the Parliamentary Labour Party, and certainly not my own Labour MP who was clearly antic Corbyn and told wavering members of the electorate on the doorstep that they could safely vote for him because he and some of his colleagues would work to get him out.
If the current news is correct we cannot have faith in the staff of the Party who want now to remove the General Secretary. The NEC is currently a unknown quantity but I am sure that that will soon be clarified once those now in power in the staff, the PLP and the constituency LP get organised. I am afraid I may be rendered politically homeless.
Keir Starmer’s campaign donations as published 14/04/2020
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/200414/starmer_keir.htm
scroll gown to the highlighted section for the latest updates
Paul, the SDP had quite a large following and split the vote on the centre and centre left with the working class which allowed Thatcher to romp home in the 80s GE. It’s the working class vote that wins or loses GEs for Labour so a splinter left group would be viewed by the working class as just that a splinter group!
But you remain cheerleading and controlled by people like Mann, Streeting and Philips. Is the game worth the candle? I’d rather be anywhere but with those people. They are worse than Tories because of their deceit on top of their views.
Maybe it is time to try to close down the Labour Party – look for ways to get your money back (due to mis-selling) and bankrupt it (if it is saved by big business it will become obvious who they represent). Then, start afresh with decent, honest people who understand what a Social Democracy is. Better now, than in 4-5 year time. Labour Party may have become too toxic to be worth saving, despite the history.
Appeals to Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner amongst others “to act in good faith towards a just resolution of “the “Labour Leaks” crisis “are likely to be in vain!
How did they both vote in the first leadership coup ! What were some of Angela Rayners negative comments regarding Jeremy Corbyn in the last few years .
What does Keir Starmer mean by calling himself “soft left”…..
Both these politicians are implicated in the strategies used to undermine a more equitable and democratic vision for the UK in the future and present. I don’t think an “independent Inquiry” organised by Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner et al is to be trusted!. Starmer’s attempts to frame an investigation in terms of “Who Leaked the document” .. speaks loud and clear!
Cognitive Dissonance anyone!
There is a lot in this document , and I do not think this issue should be swept under the carpet. Our difficulties in formulating responses to this document…….and the range of other scandals related to it ..are compounded by the Covid 19 Crisis , and of course the political establishment will try and exploit that . We must not let them ! .I should think there are many ways that intelligent people of the Left can collectively continue to expose what has been going on since 2015 and before , up to and including this Leaked report. But also most importantly to work practically to realise the more equitable and democratic vision we have been working for .
To that end ….I think it’s a good idea for members to retain membership of the party …….To support and engage where possible with the relatively small? number of genuinely Left MPS towards holding “the Wreckers” …”Soft ” or otherwise to account ,with all that that may imply …!
Lets not react in ways that confuse and divide us!