Deputy leadership hopeful tells it straight to ‘real selfish’ MPs
Deputy leadership prospect Dawn Butler had strong words at yesterday’s leadership hustings for so-called ‘moderate’ MPs who continually tried to bring down Jeremy Corbyn: “you lost us the election in 2017”.
Butler, who along with Richard Burgon touched on a similar theme during the first hustings of the contest in Liverpool, spoke of her anger and her commitment to ‘never ever join a coup’:
But Ms Butler could have gone much further. Those MPs meant to lose Labour the election in 2017 – just as they meant to lose us the election in 2019 by escalating attacks and pushing the party to change its Brexit position.
That Labour stunned the political Establishment in 2017 by coming so close to power – with the same leader and a similar manifesto, apart from on Brexit, as it had in 2019 – meant that those MPs had to put on ice the plan they are attempting to execute now.
Those MPs must not under any circumstances be allowed to profit from their complete disregard for the suffering millions in this country and their shameless willingness to rewrite history for their false narrative.
Dawn Butler’s straight talking helps to dismantle that fake narrative. She and Richard Burgon, who have both showed loyalty to the cause of helping the millions in misery, deserve your first- and second-preference votes in the deputy leadership contest – and your CLP nominations to ensure they are on the ballot.
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The almost endless prevarication and fence-sitting is what destroyed the electorate’s trust in Corbyn and Labour not the eventual last minute decision to agree with the vast majority of Labour’s membership and voters to support a second referendum.
Dearie, dearie, me … our two round-the-clock paid Mandelson goons, Steve H and RH – or are they one Troll using two identities , so closely do both post together ? ), are quick up with their so-predictable nonsense responses to the quite correct analysis of Skwawkbox and Dawn Butler !
They , along with the trendy pro EU Guardianistas , and Labour Remainers on Right AND Left, are desperate to distract attention from the all-too clear absolutely central role of their foisting on us of the electorally suicidal ‘Second Referendum and Remain’ position betrayal of our 2017 Manifesto commitment ( plus the constant smearing sabotage of the PLP Right and their press allies) for our devastating 2019 defeat. Apart from that betrayal the hugely liked 2017 and 2019 Manifestos are very alike. It is a ludicrous claim that will only convince the utterly gullible.
But then RH and Steve H are paid to pump out this tiresome drivel, all day – every day. As they are paid to also constantly pump out their (probably bogus) constant obsession with ‘Israel and Zionism’ – simply because the Mandelson claque know that this issue distracts too many Lefties from the wider policy problems of our Party – and helps to keep the idea that ‘Labour has an anti-Semitism problem,’ backed-up for the Tory press to refer to on Left blogs.
Allan? Is that you?
“RH and Steve H are paid to pump out this tiresome drivel”
… Ha’Penny’s continual confession of utter delusion requiring professional help beyond the realm politics.
You just keep sucking on that ‘Marxism for Dummies’ dummy whilst the world passes by with nary a nod of recognition. 🙂
Talking of saboteurs, I just came across the following. Funny how all the signatories to the letter just HAPPENED to think to write such a letter a couple of weeks AFTER the false and fabricated claims made by Angela Eagle and her supporters in her CLP:
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/07/23/is-there-any-evidence-at-all-to-connect-threats-of-abuse-to-labour-mps-with-jeremy-corbyn/
NB The above article is of course a defence of JC, but in one article I came across about the matter/claims – yeah, as if JC supporters would be making death and rape threats against female Labour MPs! – either Len McClusky or John McDonnell was quoted as saying that he believes it’s all down to dirty tricks by MI5. I mean if death or rape threats are made by ANYONE you of course report it to the police, and yet apart from ONE Labour MP*, no-one it seems was ever caught and convicted for making such threats. In these days of mass surveillance is THAT really possible. I think not!
*I forget her name (Luciana Berger perhaps?), but three of the four people convicted were right-wing extremists, and the LP member’s case wasn’t regarded as anywhere near as serious as the other cases, all of whom received custodial sentences.
David
You may well ask…”or are they one Troll using two identities , so closely do both post together ?” 😁
PS And bear in mind that this was just a few weeks after the murder of Jo Cox, and the police would have taken such threats ultra ULTRA seriously as such. I’m gonna do a search, but we all know that Diane Abbot receives numerous such threats AND really vile racist abuse, and yet I don’t recall ANYONE being caught and convicted. Are they – the perpetrators – ALL so clever that they know how to do so without being traced. Well if it IS fascist elements of the security services, so-called, then SURE they do!
I just did a search re convictions in relation to Diane, and the only one I could find is the following, which is beyond belief – ie the ‘sentence’ the judge gave the guy. Totally unbelievable!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/02/community-order-for-man-who-sent-racial-abuse-to-diane-abbott
Oh, how amusing, the shills have come up with the idea of making counter-claims! How ingenious!
Yeah timfrom, you sussed ‘us’ out, despite my leaving it for six-and-a-half hours before ‘responding’ to myself.
Funny how you ALWAYS show up and post a disparaging comment at such times (AND within THIRTEEN minutes of me posting my comment!). Well, maybe not!
PS Oh, and I see that timfrom ALSO posted ANOTHER disparaging comment further down the page in response to a post by jpenny. In other words, he just HAPPENED to come on to the site shortly after I posted my initial post SOLEY to attack myself and then jpenny, and THAT tells you all you need to know about the shills! I think the idea was that I would see David McNiven’s infantile comment and respond to it as such shortly after he posted it, and then timfrom would weigh in, only I DIDN’T see it until hours later, which kinda messed up their pathetic little ploy!
Allan – Does coming on here to constantly remind us all how clever you are boost your self-esteem.
Well would you believe it, Steve the shill has now turned up….. just like he always does. As I keep saying, these shills/personas are constantly monitoring the site, morning, noon and night!
You see the idea they want to put in your mind dear reader is that there’s a consensus of opinion amongst posters regarding my accusations, but the reality is that it’s just one shill/persona agreeing with another and so on so as to create the illusion of aconsensus. As I’ve said on a few occasions, I spent about eight years on numerous websites ‘dueling’ with the anti-speed camera propagandists (Safespeed et al) and exposing their lies and falsehoods (which they would just go on repeating endlessly), so I’m more than a little familiar with their MO – ie the MO of propagandists and their methods.
No ordinary person posts comments and monitors a website all day long, every single day for six months or a year or a couple of years, as these im-posters have been doing. Yes of COURSE they post comments that they know people will agree with etc, but that’s just a ruse to ingratiate themselves, and their main objective is to manipulate what readers think and believe and feel about whatever, Brexit being a good example, and endlessly criticising Jeremy Corbyn whilst pretending that they support him. Yes, they’re good at what they do, but the BIG giveaway IS – as I keep saying – that no ordinary person just posts all day long, morning, noon and night, day after day after day after day after day after day……… And it’s so often the case that one or the other of them is the first one to post a comment in any particular thread – ie article that skwawkbox posts!
Allan Howard 27/01 at 6:25 am
Allan – Your lack of self-awareness is worrying
“You see the idea they want to put in your mind dear reader is that there’s a consensus of opinion amongst posters regarding my accusations, but the reality is that it’s just one shill/persona agreeing with another and so on so as to create the illusion of a consensus.”
You have dilutions of grandeur Allan, why the f… would anyone be that bothered about you.
I would contend that rather than there being some sort of elaborate conspiracy against you that there are instead several completely autonomous individuals who comment on here that just happen to think you are a bit of a numpty.
Delusions, Steve!
“Dearie dearie me” …. “Dear reader”…
Stopped channelling Inspector Gadget and started channelling Louisa May Alcott have we, Allan?
Sorry if I’m late to the party, I slept in. Can I still play? 🙂
Allan, if you’re going to SHOUT ‘solely’ you might want to check the spelling 🙂
I didn’t have any problem with the policy of holding our fire, just with our public silence on the reason for it.
If Corbyn had said with a laugh, “The Tories are tearing themselves apart – why would we distract them?” he’d have looked confident and in control of the situation instead of indecisive.
Of course – the weakness of shadowing Tory policy was what undermined the concept of a credible opposition and weakened committed Labour support that was for Remain. Playing to the Tory MailSun gallery weakened Labour solidarity instead of countering the effects of the chicken coup.
Anyone who stuck their nose outside their own front door sussed that at the time – the Lexit nonsense blew credibility at that point by handing the initiative to the Tories without a fight.
The recovery from this disaster came too late, and the election too early.
Bullshit alert – early out of the blocks as usual. Labour should have facilitated Brexit rather than being seen to stall it – that was what lost crucial seats outside metropolitan areas. Agreeing to an election which Bojo could successfully frame as a second referendum was a disastrous mistake – and Starmer, Thornberry and Watson were its main architects. The evidence is there to see.
Dawn is quite right. Had the remainers not forced-through sheer numbers in the Shadow Cabinet, the PLP and the Union bureaucracies- the suicidal compromise on the Party Labour would have won the election.
Remainers (see above) still denying the obvious and their own role in forcing the policy change should tell us what the next move should be. Apart from electing a Blairite and ditching every vestige of socialist policy-the PLP majority view- that is.
Are they so deluded as to believe that Brexit will bring about an economic and social disaster that only rejoining the EU will repair?
The problem with the Remainers is that their core belief in in the neo-liberal capitalist project itself. That and NATO imperialism. Plus, of course, Israel. The dustbin of history beckons.
Absolutely nothing to do with Corbyn being backed into a corner by the SNP & LibDems’ decision to support a GE then ?
Skwawkbox is surely right to emphasise the leading role that the Right Wing of the Party played in the 2019 election defeat by shifting away from respecting the referendum result towards the so-called “People’s Vote”.
That Sir Keir Starmer’s push-push-push of Second Referendum + Remain was electorally suicidal is clearly apparent from the fact that 52 of the 54 seats Labour lost to the Tories were Leave-voting.
His commitment to capitalism is so great that a Labour defeat was the price worth paying for his last ditch attempt to defy democracy, go against the working class and keep us in the deeply racist neoliberal trading bloc.
Even by Labour Party standards of nuttiness, it beggars belief that members should reward failure, and spectacular failure at that, by making him party leader.
Hooray for the deeply anti-racist Kippers for opposing the deeply racist EU!
HIP HIP…
The figures on our 2019 Labour losses and the Leave support proportion of these lost seats seem to vary slightly source to source ! However I’m pretty sure after re-reading recent analysis, that Labour actually lost 60 seats it had formerly held before our disastrous 2019 General Election – (but won Putney from the Tories against the trend). 52 of the total of 60 seats Labour lost were in Leave areas !
So all the waffle from our resident quartet of paid Remainer Trolls, and the majority of Remainer PLPers, and both Left AND Right wing uncritical pro EU majority activist members , attempting to blame, variously, bad organisation, an over-full Manifesto, ‘Zionist’ sabotage, Jeremy’s lack of charisma, lack of a total early enough commitment to 2nd Ref and Remain (!) , the Tory press , etc, etc, are just pathetic diversionary excuses to try and hide the clear reality that it was our abandonment of our 2017 commitment to respect the Referendum result that lost us our 60 seats. Whereas with our 2017 commitment to respect the Referendum, we held those 60 seats we lost in December, including weight in Remainer areas. The Remainer majority of Shadow Cabinet members, including supposed Leftwingers, McDonnell and Abbot, simply panicked at the dodgy weaponised polling being churned out showing a Lib Dem surge , and thought only about safeguarding THEIR OWN REMAINER SEATS, and well paid Parliamentary salaries , not the quite obvious consequences of our Brexit betrayal in our Labour heartlands for the Party as a whole ! The unprecedentedly huge Brexit Party vote in our heartlands only a few months before for the EU Elections should have left no one in any doubt of the strength of feeling in our heartland seats on continued support for Leaving the EU.
The supreme irony is that far from ‘getting their Party back’ by their four year sabotage strategy, in league with the mass media; so that it can a return to the corrupt careerist opportunism of the Blair era for the PLP, in fact a glance across the Channel to the now almost destroyed old mass social democratic parties of Europe should have shown the Right that a return to a re-heated stale version of neoliberalism-supporting Tory-lite ‘Blairism’, is actually just a recipe for the collapse of the entire Labour Party electorally and as a mass membership party. The myopic arrogance of the Labour Right is astounding. As is the politically naive myopic arrogance of the uncritical EU-loving Left Liberal ‘Corbynista’ majority of activists !
The responsible Delegates from our electorally disastrous 2019 Conference who will shortly be invited to attend the election results ceremony for whatever , either totally disastrous, or quite disastrous (ie, Long-Bailey) candidate wins , have only themselves to blame for the collapse of Labour’s hope-filled post 2015 Left Surge, for pushing Jeremy into accepting our suicidal 2nd Ref and Remain position in our 2019 Manifesto .
“our resident quartet of paid Remainer Trolls”
Hang on, earlier in this thread you said it was two. Make up your mind! Or do your delusions give you double-vision?
You won brexit by a hair, penney. Stop trying to claim that winning a bent referendum proves Brexit to be a wise move.
It doesn’t and it isn’t.
All it proves is that dumb people outnumber smart people – as if that needed further proof.
David McNiven
”You won brexit by a hair,”
Wrong again numbnuts. Try by OVER A MILLION.
Seen that tweet in the top right? I’ll post the link here for reference
https://twitter.com/docrussjackson/status/1221719347573469184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3Askwawkbox%7Ctwcon%5Etimelinechrome&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fskwawkbox.org%2F
In 2017 Jeremy Corbyn was just 2,227 votes from having the chance to become PM.
Without the 44 coup plotters, attacks from the Labour Right & the betrayal of the UK’s only left of centre newspaper, we could have started reversing forty years of decline & had a much softer Brexit.
——————————–
Labour lost a general election BY A HAIR in 2017 because of the same despicable twats and their despicable behaviour that YOU supported to get YOU your 2nd ref/remain option undemocratically steamrollered through despite being repeatedly warned what would eventually come to pass..
No shame. Offended by everything, and ashamed of nothing. If there’s any justice you cunts will all get yours..
The more I hear Dawn Butler the more I like her as she certainly appears to stand up for her principles and call out the centrists for what they are. If RLB gets in she will need a strong Deputy because she will face the full force of the right wing media and PLP, including being subject to the CAA, BOD ,< LFI and JLM accusations of the left being antisemitic.
I haven’t heard Buttler’s speech. Is she calling out the right wingers who never wanted Corbyn as Leader in the first place or is she calling out those on the self indulgent left who ‘trotted’ along side UKIP to inflict self harm on the country? Or is she just saying ‘you know who I mean’ so that everyone points to each other?
Watch and make your own mind up
https://youtu.be/rENsblhK2aw?t=2046
This link should take you to the start of the relevant section but if not it starts at 34:05 and ends at 37:30.
Thanks SteveH. I’m glad I watched that clip, Dawn is certainly a feisty lady.
I totally agree with Dawn when she said she was referring to those MP’s who joined the coup. I will never forgive any of them and others who I know, although they did not join the coup, were working against Corbyn. As she said, they were undoubtedly a major reason why we lost the following election.
Watch8ng Andrew Marr
Another 10 for Len
Hope he hangs on till JC legacy secure
I don’t think you’ve any worries there. One of the first things that Len did after winning Unite’s GenSec election by securing the votes of a little over 5% of Unite’s membership was to alter Unite’s rules to make it much harder for anyone to challenge him for the leadership.
Skwawky & JP bang on the nail.
Someone once argued perpetrators of policy often feel no guilt, they justify to themselves what they did.
It is us small number of left who could feel guilt as millions suffer from the actions of Labour’s Right led by “Macron” Starmer et al, could we have done more, we posted, warned, raised it at meetings but those who are generally comfortable (and Allright Jack) would not listen.
But I do not feel guilty though I think the left care more than the Right ever will – the generally politically dim, poorly read, timid, frightened of being radical, actually enjoy fighting the left, tiresome bores.
Back Becky for Leader.
Back Burgon 1 Back Butler 2 Deputy!
Then with them fight alongside the diverse citizens who are being left behind.
RLB 1.
Burgon 1.
Butler 2.
The few people here who are turning every post into another Brexit battle are, oddly, on the side that won the vote and the election.
I’ve replied to a few but I don’t think I’ve actually started any of those arguments. Maybe Allan could check his extensive records and correct me if I’m wrong?
I’m mildly curious about why Penney and Danny et al keep going on about it – surely this is a time to be gracious in victory and wait confidently for the benefits of leaving the EU to come rolling in?
If I cared about being proved right I’d be hoping for a brexit disaster but I’m not – I’ll be relieved and delighted to shout my apology for my mistake from the rooftops if leaving turns out to be a resounding success.
It feels almost like Penney and Danny are busy getting ready to pin a bad brexit on remainers though – like with the election?
A Tory organised Brexit will be bad, as would remaining IN the EU under a Tory government, David McNiven. The responsibilty for the Labour electoral disaster rests entirely with the Labour Remainers, both on the saboteur Labour Right and the EU-loving Left Liberal ‘Corbynista ‘Left’ of the Party. Just own it, David. Remainers fucked our Party’s once in a lifetime chance to build a better society from the ever worsening ruins of civil society produced by both Blairite New Labour’s corrupt neoliberalism, and the last ten years of the Tories onwards. How many times do Labour’s supposed ‘Left’ Remainers need to be told ? – Very few of the radical policies in either our 2017 or 2019 Manifestos could be carried out within EU Single Market rules !
That’s why those of us who warned constantly of this outcome for years as Labour edged ever closer to its disastrous adoption of 2nd Ref and Remain ‘still go on about it’ – ie, because the ‘Corbynista’ uncritical pro EU ‘Left, have evidently still learned nothing from our historic defeat, or yet grasped that the EU is a totally neoliberalism-enforcing undemocratic construct – that is actually perfectly set up to carry out mainstream Tory neoliberal policies ( which is why that uber globalist neoliberal, ideologist, Oliver Letwin MP, preferred to stay IN the EU).
So… given your statement at 12:07… at the time of the referendum your calculation MUST HAVE BEEN that it was perfectly safe to vote leave because Labour would definitely win the next election and we’d have a Labour Brexit, correct?
Because it would have been FUCKING STUPID to risk a Tory Brexit, wouldn’t it? The worst of all possible outcomes?
Since both events were required for a win on your terms the only safe course was to vote remain, wait until we had a Labour government securely in place and THEN see if the people wanted another referendum – correct?
If I’m wrong about your situational assessment at the time please set me right.
You tragic self-justifying , man ! You are exhibiting very poor analytical skills, as usual, David McNiven. But then as an enthusiast for the entirely neoliberal EU, and its Single Market straightjacket rules that make an even mildly Left economic agenda impossible, your politics and analytical skills are evidently non-existent.
Let me spell it out for you in very simple terms. There was no reason, other than the crap politics of the bulk of Left Liberal and Right Wing members and PLP of the Labour Party (and the utter failure of the old ex Bennite PLP Left to do any socialist education or analysis of the neoliberal EU, particularly via Momentum) , for Labour not to embrace a Lexit policy – which would, along with our radical Manifesto (which could ONLY be carried out if we left the EU), have almost certainly WON the next 2019 General Election. The Tories only won in 2019 because of our betrayal of our 2017 commitment to respect the 2016 Referendum.
There never was any real point to achieving a supposedly radical Left Labour government within the EU, because NONE of those policies were implementable ! What can’t you grasp on that, McNiven ? Typical of a politically naïve Left Liberal uncritical pro EU Remainer, happy to betray our 2017 Manifesto Commitment, and hence totally predictably piss off our vital Labour heartland Leave voters (we lost 52 seats because of our Remain policy shift !) , to try and blame the socialists who did understand the straightjacket nature of the EU , and warned constantly of the consequences of Labour adopting Remain, for our 2019 Electoral disaster.
You, and your reality denying Remainer Labour Party members are truly incapable of analysing our defeat and now understanding the predictable assured route back to the domination of corrupt careerist Blairism that our Party is now firmly set on. It’s YOUR fault, McNiven and your ilk, not us few socialists in the Party. Own it laddie, and don’t bother me with your petulant blame-spreading bollocks.
”surely this is a time to be gracious in victory and wait confidently for the benefits of leaving the EU to come rolling in?”
Or maybe they’ve every right to be furious with the colossal bellends who demolished all hopes of a labour Govt (Which I’m sure that leave voters like meself prioritised over and above brexit) because of their laissez-faire attitude towards the cunts watson & starmer’s behaviour in getting the 2nd ref/remain option undemocratically steamrollered through without a vote in congress?
Oh, you moan incessantly about the behaviour of them as regards their blairite credentials and how the chicken coup (With the same perpetrators behind that, too) undermined Corbyn (Who you blithely claim to have supported during his tenure, while evidencing through your lily-livered, self-centred cowardice in failing to criticise watson or oily bastard starmer to have done the exact opposite)
Yet not a single one of you have condemned either for their wilfully destructive behaviour that led to massive vote losses nationwide and a GE defeat of almost biblical proportion that was even worse than predicted by those who know far better than you morons ever would, could and should.
If I was in your shoes I’d skip the sarcasm. It makes you look even more the gobshite you already are.
‘Won the vote AND the election’?
So YOU claim leavers are toerag voters and yet it was YOUR cowardice fucked up any chance of Labour winning the election. Un-fucking-believeable.
That’s the only thing you’ve got to throw at people and whikle it’s not only desperate bollocks, it has all the weight of a lena zavaroni left hook. Pathetic.
(Which I’m sure that leave voters like meself prioritised over and above brexit)
If they had we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
They voted Tory, dickhead.
For which you and they blame everyone but yourselves.
52/48 is a hair.
On such a gigantic constitutional issue 60/40 should have been required and all the lying assertions from both sides should have been independently and publicly fact-checked to a conclusion.
Before the vote itself there should have been a final, on-all-channels debate on the checked facts and the liars exposed with their lies pinned to their chests.
We’ll both be dead before the full implications of this Tory wet dream are known, but there’ll be plenty to chew on later this year.
Oh – and on the ‘antidemocratic’ second referendum – was it going to be held on cup final day or some other unmissable event that meant you democrats couldn’t possibly be expected to visit the polling station for the second time in your lives?
Or were you worried you’d forget which way to vote without Farage to remind you?
They voted Tory, dickhead.
And WHY did they do that then, dickhead?
You’ve got some fucking nerve having had your arse already handed to you by your own inetitude and pigheadedness, to come on here and still preach your utterly woeful shite.
52/48 or 1.3 MILLION is NOT a hair when compared to 2,277 votes costing Corbyn the premiershiship, you godawful ignoranus.
I’m completely at ease with my conscience over the GE result, dickhead. We all KNOW who’s ultimately responsible for the defeat…watson and starmer and their supporters. i.e. you and the other three cretins and the others who let them get away with fucking murder,; all the while trying to disguise your guilt by pleading your alleged support of Corbyn and the policies., but doing and saying fuck all about what watson & starmer were up to, thereby enabling and emboldening them and their cuntish actions.
Actions you were repeatedly warned would drive people to desert the party in droves. And you called the likes of Danny and JPenney for everything.
And WHO was proved right – Well it most definitely wasn’t YOU, was it, brains?
You kidded nobody then, you’re sure as fuck kidding nobody now.
And STILL they cry over a million people as if it doesn’t constitute a majority
Well FYI that’s more than the population of three EU states.
States that, even with a populace less than one million, any single one of them still have the power of veto over the plans of 25/26 other EU states with a combined population of over 500MILLION.
They allowed watson and starmer to act like cunts in order to buldoze the 2nd ref/remain option into party policy with NO vote on the matter.
And yet the same shower of shite are the biggest whingers about ‘abuses of democracy’ Those abject pricks have perverted the definition of democracy to suit their own agenda.
They are naught but cryarse hypocrites.
Never mind the headline this gives a vital insight into what Corbyn was up against with these so called “moderate” Labour MPs and why it’s vital to vote RLB as leader https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rebecca-long-bailey-says-idea-voters-rejected-socialism-is-bollocks_uk_5e2e22bcc5b6779e9c358975
The national executive committee of Labour-affiliated trade union Community has opted to nominate Keir Starmer in the leadership election and Angela Rayner for the deputy leadership post.
What did we learn from the leadership Hastings at the Electoral Reform Society
https://www.facebook.com/OpenLabour/videos/702486623615359/
https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/what-we-learnt-from-the-ers-open-labour-leadership-hustings/
Rant and deny the truth all you like, imbeciles, but at some point History is going to ask what made you think (pfft) a left wing brexit was ever remotely possible without us FIRST winning power from the right wing of our own party AND THEN winning power from the Tories so that it was OUR brexit not THEIRS.
Your one-dimensional obsession with immigration and your complete lack of foresight or forethought blinded you to the obvious.
Every aspiring populist manipulator of democracy from Hitler to Johnson via Trump has relied on people just like you.
timform – Thanks 😊
Dawn is on Novara media tonight on YouTube at 8.30pm.