Labour leadership hopeful did not respond to calls, text or emails
Labour leadership candidate Lisa Nandy has failed to respond when asked whether she would condemn a strongly-criticised move by one of the unions backing her bid.
A Freedom of Information Act (FOI) request made by the assistant general secretary of the PCS public services union to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) revealed that the GMB union had signed away a vital right of some of its members.
As part of an agreement for GMB to be recognised, the union had surrendered the right of its members working as guards at JobCentre Plus offices for private security firm G4S to take strike action:
Details of the FOI response were shared on social media by a former GMB activist who, along with his respondents, considered the GMB’s move ‘outrageous’ and ‘appalling’:
The GMB press office did not respond to a request for comment placed with it on Friday afternoon.
As she was this week endorsed as a leadership candidate by the GMB, the SKWAWKBOX also contacted Lisa Nandy to ask whether she would condemn the union’s move.
Ms Nandy’s parliamentary and constituency offices did not pick up when called, but the request was sent on Friday by email and text message and several attempts were made to contact her by mobile. However, Ms Nandy did not respond by the time of publication on Saturday evening.
Commenting on the situation, PCS head Mark Serwotka said:
The Tories are currently threatening the right to strike for the transport unions, this is unacceptable and must be opposed. The right to strike is fundamental human right. This principle applies to those workers at G4S as much as to transport workers. PCS opposes any restrictions on the right to strike, whoever proposes them.
The SKWAWKBOX understands that some guards have begun switching membership from GMB to PCS as awareness of the situation has spread.
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On Thursday evening, Wigan CLP endorsed Lisa Nandy for party leader.
In the deputy race they endorsed Angela Rayner.
At the meeting, Nandy’s predecessor as MP urged support for Ian Murray, the right wing Scottish MP. In doing so he feigned ignorance as to who Murray was, but thought that supporting him would give Scotland skin in the game. A member pointed out that he was “the Blairite candidate”. Clearly this proposal fell.
Later on, he proposed Johana Latham for one of the two currently vacant NEC seats, and it was passed. Clearly those present were unaware of what he was doing.
I only just qualified to be at the meeting, but already I can see that Progress/Labour First are better organised in heartland constituencies than the left. The northern constituencies are the bedrock of the right, and this needs to be addressed.
Nandy is a notorious right wing bullshitter and backstabber – amazing that she has somehow acquired that ‘soft Left’ moniker. Further to this current Skwawkbox article on the craven ‘company union’ role of the GMB —- at a Left Wing trade union and Labour Party activists meeting of the pro Brexit , Leave, Fight, Transform, (‘LeFT’ ) campaign in Wigan on the 18th January at which Jon Trickett, and Ian Lavery, and other key working class figures were speakers, the Bakers’ Union President, Ian Hodson paid tribute to BFAWU members’ 2013 strike in Wigan, where Hovis attempted to impose zero-hours contracts on new staff entrants. To their credit, his members refused to accept the creation of a two-tier workforce in a unionised workplace. The exponential growth of zero-hours and agency employment in Britain is a direct outcome of EU-driven, liberalisation of employment legislation such as the 2008 Temporary Agency Work Directive which normalises agency and casual employment.
Ian recalled how due to her support for the strike, his union recommended Jeremy Corbyn invite Wigan MP Lisa Nandy to join the Shadow Cabinet after his election as Labour leader in 2015. She was duly appointed, and within months was in cahoots with Lord Mandelson to become, along with Chris Leslie, a principal protagonist of the 2016 ‘Chicken coup’. Lesson learned.
https://leftcampaign.org/2020/01/21/the-road-from-wigans-clear/
If you haven’t already read the comments below then I wouldn’t bother, as most of it is just unfounded and false criticism of the LP, Jeremy and the leadership and members/activists. Funny isn’t it, how practically none of what they spew forth – and especially signpost (seems to be his speciality!) – appears to have applied in 2017 when we came very close to winning the GE AND had the best results in many, many years.
Yep, the shills don’t even take Sunday OFF!!!
It may be that the left is less organised, less focussed and have almost no sense of prioritising. The obsession seems to be attending every protest going, symbolic gestures, words and slogans yet precious little, if any “organisation“. Almost every remote / foreign dispute attracts attention / emotion / passion … it is as if there is a subconscious pull to problems that cannot be solved by us here … eg Kashmir or Brazil politics or Venezuela or the Middle East… anywhere where people are unlikely to have a significant impact on our elections here… ie a vote. I feel that until that bizarre failure to address this curious “avoidance” or displacement, we are doomed to get the likes of Starmer, Nandy, Rayner et all to excrete more of the same old same old on us, our country and the world. More Blair like WMD lies and Iraq invasions and USELESS Trident. Because instead of organising to win, too many are happy to attend EVERY SINGLE PROTEST, digest EVERY SINGLE political theoretical tome, attend EVERY SINGLE rarefied talk… the more familiar the faces in attendance the better. Self comfort self soothing activity while the world remains untransformed… in the firm grip of the vacuous merchants of parrots of the same old same old tosh…. and even when the most rare, the most exceptional opportunities arise it is as if we are blind to the value of them, every protest seems more attractive. Thats how the Tories incl Blair ”get away with it”. Too many of us are otherwise engaged. And one to many of us are inexplicably senseless and perverse enough … yes PERVERSE, to make a Twatson a Lord. McNiccky a Lord. What true regard is there for the membership??? The GMB obscenity is in line with a spirit sapping perversity that has thrived like some stupefying fungus while new slogans for the next protests were and are sapping minds and time and energy…all too scarce.
Its our leaders that support the Lords and the whole concept of the entitled.
That displacement characterises the Labour Left. It features among the comment-makers on this site with the obsession with Zionism. The fact that we are dealing with two foreign entities, Israel and Palestine, over which, even if we had Labour in office, a British government would have scant sway, never enters into the scheme of things. A British government simply does not have the power to change things very much there. That is, unless it be proposed that Britain go to war against Israel, which would probably mean going to war against the USA too!
The more important thing is the fact of displacement. On an unconscious level most “leftists” do not want to win. They settle for “winning the argument” (!). The Left’s lack of serious is reflected in the ease with which it has detached itself from the working class. Since the 1990s not only has the Labour Party become separated from the working class but so has the Labour Left, adopting a scattergun woke leftism in place of its earlier commitment to the class interest. Hence it too easily fell in with the Blairites’ entitled contempt for the Leave voters and Second Referendum, leading to the election result. The Labour Left, like the rest of the body politic, thereby contributed to the political marginalisation of the working class rather than seeking to end it.
Danny, WRONG WRONG WRONG. If a British Government had no powers to change anything in the Middle East between the Zionists and the Palestinians, why is it that seemingly every Zionist on the planet, including yourself, went to great lengths to try and keep Jeremy Corbyn from becoming our next PM?
They were terrified that a British PM would be able to speak with so much influence, in support of the Palestinians. They therefore went overboard with their attacks on Corbyn using entrenched foot soldiers such as Hodge, Watson, Berger and many others, including Nandy, to destroy Corbyn in the eyes of the public.
Danny you express my strong feeling better than i have. Relieved to know i’m not alone. And as you mention the word “Zionism”, early last year, i asked one of my dearest & most learned friends, why is the word thrown about by so many “Left” people, eg here on SB, not by him nor his wife, so i was greatly surprised at his relaxed answer, ie they are “just saying what it is”. In his profession, they do meticulously restate precisely what someone has said, before giving a response. The exchange is followed up in writing.
My concern though, was that the word Zionism is not thrown about amongst the wider population. Even amongst my closest group of friends which includes Non practising Jews, and other faiths, the word in discussions of Middle East long running strife has never been used. Methinks… in fact feel sure thats the case amongst most people.
We are concerned with immediate basic matters right here. Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs holds true. The general public could be engaged by and react to tangible sufferings of the Palestinian people, they would hardly start spouting terms like Zionism. They would i suspect react to homes bulldozed, bereavement, injustice etc … not some term which even amongst “the Left”, there can be debates about meaning. And those debates, further alienate us from normal people and make real tangible suffering fogged up with displacement wrangles about words. Meanwhile people are sleeping in tents in the woods in Surrey, Wiltshire, Hampshire, Gloucestershire, and in London, Windsor… everywhere…. while Nandy and even RLB try to invent … just as WMD Blair did, a slogan a theoretical phrase about aspiration etc.
The naivety and ”out of touchness” extends most worryingly, to for eg, accepting new members to vote in the Leadership Elections, despite the vipers begging people to join to undo what Corbyn achieved. Surely we should not take such a risk, We know what the membership is now. Why risk the sudden influx of Right Wing WMD ”ENTRYIST”?
Jpenny also states something which strikes me as disturbingly indicative of breathtaking naivety. There is a superficial…amateurish … pathetic rush to assume people share our values, if they attend a protest / march in ”solidarity” with X, Y, or Z …even though the march and solidarity will produce no fruit… ie we still have Trident, Blair still invaded Iraq.
So, even my MP can have a food-bank box in his office, which gives a veneer of care, while doing everything to undermine Jeremy, and all his actions show that he cares for nothing but his ambition.
Yet despite having such a blatantly self-serving MP tool of the Thatcherite gang, and all can see their ways, my well intentioned Left colleagues, need only meet anyone on a march who parrots the Open Sesame words of the “Left”, are allowed to join confidential groups. … so we are wrecked and sabotaged from within. The “Thatcherite” cabal don’t even need an elaborate giant horse to hide within. Just say ANY one of the words or phrases: solidarity, class consciousness, Zionism, BAME, gender this that or tother, Foucault, even a few syllables and your in… so jpenney’s anecdote rings a disturbing bell… i’v heard it…
“…due to her support for the strike, his union recommended Jeremy Corbyn invite Wigan MP Lisa Nandy to join the Shadow Cabinet after his election as Labour leader in 2015. She was duly appointed, and within months was in cahoots with Lord Mandelson to become, along with Chris Leslie, a principal protagonist of the 2016 ‘Chicken coup’.”
Will some of us never learn?
Excellent analysis signpostnotwindchimes , and that is exactly what I meant in my comment on a related thread here 2 days ago with ” we will never win with this level of juvenile incompetence ”
The Left cannot fix everything everywhere , yes we can highlight it , debate and be aware of it , but that distracts , divides and dissolves our energies as you have so rightly pointed out.
Result …. Wigan supporting Nandy ffs ! How the hell GMB can ever call itself a Union , maybe more like a membership society or something but not a union .
WHat the answer is , I can only think that maybe it’s time to start a new leftwing party ( we are going to be out of power for years anyway and thus have time to experiment in getting it right ) .
I had hope with Momentum as some sort of embryonic vehicle to facilitate this but that has been hijacked by one man and his ego power trip . Lansman!
I’d look to and follow someone like Chris Williamson perhaps or his like, but I despair and maybe its just time to accept that Britannia likes it’s RW bastard Govts be they Tory or Blairite Tory lites , I look to France and the power of the people there in the demonstrations now on the streets to defend their future rights as a good example of what a real Socialist country looks like under the surface veneer.
I wish them well and hope they succeed as I don’t think we will here , not with this iteration of The Labour Party .
Sadly, tragically in fact, you, rob, and Danny and signpostnotwindchimes are completely correct to despair of the current outcome of the (unrealistically) high hopes we all had of the post 2015 ‘Corbyn insurgency’ . That surprising to everyone, Left and right alike, manifestation of the then Europe-wide ‘Left Surge’ response to the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis, very temporarily created a 500,000 strong party out of the fast declining membership ruins of the increasingly moribund , neoliberal, corrupt, Blairite Labour Party, committed in policy at least to radical Leftish reform – to the amazement of the then collapsing old mass European social democratic parties .
Tragically , the leftover old PLP Labour Lefties, like Jeremy Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott, and cynical old backstage manoeuvrers likeJon Lansman and Pete Willsman, were simply not up to the job of capitalising on this unexpected, manifestation of political radicalism within a deeply corrupt, totally Right-dominated PLP, local government and Party machine. Their ‘radicalism’ has now surely been fully exposed as merely posturing game-playing, whilst for decades pulling in very large salaries for themselves as Labour’s ‘licenced radical Leftie jesters’. The Labour ‘Left’ , as always historically were simply not prepared to take on the corrupt careerists of the entrenched Labour Right.
And, as Danny and signpostnotwindchimes correctly say, the bulk of the ‘Corbyn Insurgency’ new members turned out not to be any kind of socialists, or even activists, but politics-less middle class Left Liberals, obsessed with ‘issue politics’, and identity issues, and ridiculously obsessed in particular with Israel/Palestine/Zionism – to the extent of simply ignoring other issues, like the looming genocide of the Muslims in Burma (Myanmar) , the dire plight of the Kurds in Turkey/Iraq and Syria, or the plight of the Muslims currently in concentration camps in millions in China, the huge anti neoliberalism struggle on the streets in France, to mention just a few .
The outcome of this huge political weakness in both the PLP, local government, and our wider membership , is that the four year determined campaign of ruthless sabotage by the Labour Right and the huge assistance of the mass media, has WORKED. The Corbyn Insurgency is now truly over , and Labour will now revert (under ANY of the Leadership candidates, including the weak Long-Bailey), to warmed over Blairism in all but name – and will from now on continue to decline, as with PASOK, the French Socialist Party, the SPD, etc, into an ever smaller Right of Centre party of the middle class and big cities, indistinguishable from the Lib Dems (or the US Democrat Party) .
Eventually a new socialist party will no doubt be built, but the political realities do not yet favour that, probably not for a decade or so – as socialists in the Labour Party waste their time continuing to fight fruitlessly for Left policies. The European new parties of the post 2008 ‘ Left Surge’, like Syriza, Podemos, Die Linke, are all, similarly, now in fast decline – and the populist radical Far Right is on the rise. The next phase of Labour’s political collapse will be at local government level – with the emergence of radical Right populism as an ever larger political force to fill that void in our old heartlands in particular – initially concealed within misleading ‘localist chauvinist ‘ identities – as has happened in ex-Labour council areas like Bolton and Stoke.
Jpenny much as I tend to disagree with many of your observations , here I am of the same accord.
The only chance Labour had of gaining a socialist power base has now been hounded out internally by the RW PLP and externally by the MSM/Establishment.
10 yrs is too long for me to wait around for the rising of the phoenix from the ashes of what should have been a Corbyn Govt .
However, thanks to the very successful tactics used by our own so called Lab MPs that is dead , and the rather second “raters” now standing for Leadership proves the point .
As I said before I do wish Corbyn would stand again simply to enable the establishment of a strong inner Socialist group and do what must be done in expelling all those MPs in the PLP who have continuously undermined his leadership and the Party,, costing us the election ( I include all those who campaigned openly for a 2nd ref and did not accept his decision to abide by the leave vote and I mean ALL of them ! ) .
Johnson did just that at the start of his term as leader and that has certainly bought discipline and order to his Party,, well done to him . Labour if it is to continue needs the same ” bastard ” to do this job , I just don’t see one.
Hence I agree with your assessment of gradual and slow decline to irrelevance for the working class , other than as a fig leaf of cover for our “rigged” democracy as a party of permanent opposition .
I’d much prefer a rapid and quick death of it into oblivion , and the drive by those who joined in hope of something good , to be captured and used to create the new Democratic Socialist Party.
Thanks Rob. I’m 5 hrs behind TIME diff. So my reply out of sync. Just scanned Jack T’s reply to Danny. The point is not that a GB govt can’t affect things abroad. They can! The key is in the word, GOVERNMENT. Governments have influence in foreign affairs, Not oppositions and protests. People vote for a UK govt here in the UK. So the priorities of the left, the sequence of getting things done shows incompetence, naivety, remoteness from the most elementary understanding of human nature.
On top of that, on the doorstep, in general, people would be underwhelmed, and unconvinced by canvassers whose energies have been exhausted by dashing around to every march and meeting with like minds. People can sense when obsessions are elsewhere. Parking, Bin collection, School places, Social Care, may lack glamour, but issues like these are CENTRAL to the daily lives of the electorate, rich and poor and in between alike.
On the doorstep, all the seasoned marchers have to offer is a disdain for those who cannot orgasm on hearing the theories of Marx. They think their disdain is disguised but it isn’t. It seeps through. …possibly because those on the left are more “honest”, earnest and well intentioned. Poor pretenders… unlike the lying nasty repellent WMD 45 minute sick making charlatans Tony Blair and Boris Johnson… whom Bliar creature hissed that it preferred BloJob to Jeremy.
We are paying the price for a broad church party.Basically we have followed the US democrats in allowing a dangerous situation that will split the party and the membership.Only one winner in this leadership election and thats the PLP and the right wing moderates.This election has left most of us frustrated in being asked to vote for the best worst option were the word socialism is still used by the candidate,and thats Double barrel Bailey.What a pathetic option we are presented with.I doubt any of them will ever give us democracy.
Agreed Joseph, the broad church BS and campaigning to “Unite the Country”. The left incl Jeremy were hypnotised by that claptrap of trying to unite people around smoke fog ans smog… fog contaminated with the urine of Thatcherism ie 45 minute to destruction WMD IRAQ invading Tony Blair. TOXIC SMOG.
“We are paying the price for a broad church party.”
We can certainly argue about the limits of a ‘broad church’, but the opposite notion of a narrow sect isn’t even a starter – except in terms of embracing irrelevance and spurning any hope of power.
Politics is about building majority alliances – as Clive Lewis recognised. The rest is meaningless gabble. And, yes, there is a difference between selling out (viz. Blair and his successors) and recognising priorities and compromise.
The problem here, to paraphrase, is that there is a knife operating here which is so sharp it’s extremely difficult to see it working.
The term “broad church” which is used in this context is sold as having a very specific, uncontroversial defined meaning representing an archetypal example of both the difference between theory and practice and a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
The theory we are sold whenever this term is used is in relation to politics when in practice what those who use it actually mean is a broad church of values and principles.
No one can have any reasonable objection to a broad church in terms of politics. However, in decades of experience and observation I’ve never, once scratching below the surface, ever encountered this in practice.
Digging below the surface of this weasel piece of carpetbaggery one inevitably finds in practice that it is cover for something which that other Marx (Groucho) recognised in his well known quote about principles.
There is certainly room for a broad church in politics and if anyone encounters this rare creature it should be cherished and nurtured. However, there can be no room in any organised activity for a broad church of values and principles. As any organisation which tries to operate on such a notion will become dysfunctional as a result of trying to operate on the basis of the contradictory objectives of opposing values and principles.
F**k serwotka and F**k g4s goons.
Of course, I will expect the usual three or four creatures to come on to castigate me about ‘solidarity’ but my resonse will be when was the last time they received any ‘solidarity’ from a pcs/jcp worker who stopped their claim for the most spurious of reasons, and then had them thrown out of the jobcentre by the g4s goon(s)?
Because that’s what’s happening all over the country, at least dozens, but pehaps hundreds of times per week; under serwotka’s (impotent) watch.
Bur those same three or four creatures don’t give a fuck about those at the bottom of the shitheap. Oh, no. They got their 2nd ref/remain option that fucked up any chance of a socialist Government. You MUST listen to them, not take any notice of the plight of society’s most vulnerable.
All that said, the underlying massive problem remains the painfully low level of union membership.
‘Labour Heartlands’?
There aren’t any.
There certainly aren’t any ‘Labour Heartlands’ any more you Troll goon, RH, because the likes of yourself and too many of our daft Left Liberal and Right Wing membership and PLP and opportunist Shadow Cabinet members (including Abbott and McDonnell) , decided to betray our commitment in 2017 to ‘respect the outcome of the 2016 Referendum’, and back a second referendum and Remain ! Outcome – the loss of 58 Labour seats, mostly of generations-long tenure, 56 in Leave-supporting majority areas ! We’d already lost the Scottish Labour Heartland, worth over 50 seats, of course , after decades of Right Wing Murphy/Blairite Tory-lite politics pissed off our voter base – which swapped wholesale to the Left-faking SNP.
If you are ludicrously suggesting that there never were generations-long Labour , secure, ‘heartlands’ in the Midlands and North, and Wales, and Scotland, where voting Labour was an integral part of working class cultural identity – then you are a historically ignorant fool, not just a tiresome Mandelson paid Troll.
Ha’Penny – your pseudo-concern – always aimed to justify your eccentric delusional standpoint and detachment from reality is a massive irrelevancy.
Try getting a grip on actuality now instead of always falling back on cod-Marxist descriptions of a past long gone.
Anyone who lives in areas like this and has worked the doorsteps knows that they have not been ‘secure’ Labour seats for a long time before Brexit raised its ugly Tory head, Voting habit kept the majorities, not commitment.
You really should get out more instead of just indulging in fantasy.
Turning to essential issues – just a note here to draw attention to an important article on the EHRC ‘Investigation’ on the JVL website. It raises some important questions about the competene of the EHRC :
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/is-the-ehrc-fit-for-purpose/
The EHRC has the whiff of a £76,000,000 dad’s army of seven privates and a corporal, comfortably billeted in the Carlton Club.
To Danny, jpenney, rob, signpost etc., It wasn’t Corbyn and other Palestinian supporters who started the fight, it was the committed Zionists, who as soon as it was announced that Corbyn was on the shortlist for Leader, made it their business to discredit him by any means possible.
You do not appear to be aware that because of the malign influence of Israel, British democracy is in peril. We have just witnessed a prime example of the destruction of anyone whom they consider to be a threat.
It is plain stupid to say that as a Labour Party we we should not take a serious interest in international trouble spots, especially as in the case of Palestine and the occupied Palestinian territories, Britain is largely to claim in the first place!
Jack, i am not sawing we do not take an interest in foreign affairs. I do and have always done. It is a case of how we gain power to effect change. It is follow to keep doing what has failed. Last year the Israeli authorities bulldozed the homes of hundreds of Palestinians. They sneaked in overnight. It got a mention on print MSM. No mention here or on LBC or TALKRADIO. My point though, is instead of bashing about terms that appeal to you “Zionism”, try focusing on the reality, the experience of the people “homes bulldozed” to the ground. Olive and grape vines ripped out etc. THAT resonates with “normal” people. AND in any event surely, why should anyone give their vote to someone who seems to prioritise foreign issues over domestic ones? And, fails to communicate the foreign concern in a way and with language that would grip a domestic audience?
Jack, we have the same concerns and aims, i suspect. The difference is how we achieve them. Priorities, Sequencing, Explanation, Persuasion, Ongoing Assessment. When something successively fails to work, then change🌹🌹🌹
saying. Excuse typos please.
Signpost, yes, we do appear to have the same aims but the blame for defeat does not lay with those of us on the periphery who tried to point out the dangers of Zionism. It lies in the laps of those in the Leadership, the PLP and the bureaucracy who tried to appease and minimise the massive attacks on Corbyn. Then to top it all, deliberately took part in the witch hunt to get rid of anyone such as Ken Livingstone, Jackie Walker, Chris Williamson, Mark Wadsworth and Tony Greenstein etc who had had enough of the Blairite capitulation to Zionism.
If those who are being attacked do not make the reasons for the attacks clear to the public and allow the malicious lies to go unchallenged, who the heck is going to educate the public? The right wing media, including the BBC, are not going to do it are they?
When you are being attacked, you cannot ignore it, it gives the public the impression you are either weak, guilty or both, which is exactly what happened.
Jack T, now seeing this. We do gave the same aims AND direct blame in the same direction.
“It lies in the laps of those in the Leadership, the PLP and the bureaucracy who tried to appease and minimise the massive attacks on Corbyn. Then to top it all, deliberately took part in the witch hunt to get rid of anyone such as Ken Livingstone, Jackie Walker, Chris Williamson, Mark Wadsworth and Tony Greenstein etc who had had enough of the Blairite capitulation”.
I am all for trying to be clear and have traction. Making the humiliation and physical and mental suffering of the Palestinian people VIVID with accurate crisp descriptions of the thousands of MURDERS and MAIMING by those with ALL the power ALL the arms ALL the funding and ALL the regular boasting of said SUPERIOR means of WICKED oppression, conveys the plight of the Palestinians rather than sterile terms which resonate ONLY amongst those who use it. This is not a unique human problem re single abstract words to describe real atrocities.
Eg, last year i chatted with a passionate sincere well meaning person who spoke of INTENSE exasperation at their partners failure to grasp what “Socialism” or the “Left” means. I have read even here, someone using the term “Zionism” in a post which swiftly became a ding dong about what the word means and history of it etc I cannot remember a single reference to even one of the outrageous, abominable wilful cruelty of for eg bulldozing the Palestinians’ homes, businesses and livelihoods by ripping up vineyards etc. Or even the brutal battering of Orthodox Jews who refused to join the the army.
What I am saying is, it is ALAWYS better to CONNECT with the electorate in a way that is effective, ie the real DAILY suffering rather than abstract terms. A good eg is how quickly Ex Rebellion connected and grew a following. They achieved that by being vivid rather than abstract. They started by building local contact and making local relevance vivid and ALIVE. There appears to me, ZERO despondency re what could be achieved. And ZERO diversions, avoidance, displacement etc with terms, definitions and history. History is in the back ground eg the history of how change is achieved ->>> IMPLEMENTATION of widespread ENGAGEMENT and MAINTENANCE of SUSTAINED engagement. That us vital for any sustained meaningful change. Relevance, Attention, NEVER appeasing, NEVER fogging, NEVER ambiguous… “constructive” or otherwise… in fact, “ambiguity” often is destructive when inappropriately used, and almost always when used incompetently. It ALWAYS drains the spirit and energy of group morale, breeds distrust and drift. Worse it ambiguity leaves a space… VACUUMS which nature abhors. Physical and psychological natures abhor vacuums so much that they suck in all horrors to fill the space… eg Johnson. The vacuum was filled with what APPEARED clear and decisive. In reality Johnson offered a nonsense but clearly. And the the metro-centric Labour provided the perfect foil by reacting to the none sense, as if it were real… eg adding solidity to decisive hot air with especially “we must prevent a CLIFFE EDGE” which by the way has not happened. Extricating from the EU is a Lo o ong process. Hysterical Cliffe Edge effectively gave the impression that Johnson will “Get Brexit Done”!. He has’t and most likely won’t. He has never believed in it. Plus he is the definition of laziness. Johnson’s rule is do as little as possible, lie often for fun, treat reckless words as a joke eg Mrs Radcliffe lengthened incarceration in Iran or abetting the convicted criminal his Eaton chum, to have a journalist beaten up. Oh, and for good measure enjoy other people’s wives and girlfriends + every acuri going with or without IT thrown in. In short, instead of focusing throughout the last four years on the ship load of Tory failings and institutionalised racism, the mother of all efforts AND TONS OF MONEY was and still is being directed at what MIGHT happen instead of what IS happening, particularly to the electorate in the North and Midlands. Whole streets in Durham mining towns have several boarded up terraced homes with gardens going for £1.00 such is the neglect of our electorate here. Yet many STILL believe that the electorate should believe that a Johnson we made look decisive, would make their lives worse. And, we could get them to care for people suffering abroad by using meaningless terms to them. It is an Omni Fail which could have been avoided.
What was and is needed is thought, listening, courage, up front ness like Richard Burgon or Len McCluskey, Chris Williamson, …George Galloway and Ken Livingstone when they stop saying stupid unnecessary things, and at ALL TIMES focus on what ALL of the electorate need desperately here FIRST. THEY vote for us. It is simple logic.
signpostnotwindchimes – I agree with you about trying to get over the actuality of the horrors encouraged by the UK’s unconditional support of Israel.
But that doesn’t vitiate the use of the term ‘Zionism’ to describe the political underpinnings of Israel’s neo-colonialism and policy of ethnic cleansing.
The power of the term is evidenced in the way that the Hasbara initiative strives unceasingly to conflate the it with ‘Judaism’ in order to provide Israel with cover for its hypocrisy and inhumanity.
“The power of the term is evidenced in the way that the Hasbara initiative strives unceasingly to conflate the it with ‘Judaism’ in order to provide Israel with cover for its hypocrisy and inhumanity.”
Yes RH, but “power of the term…” to whom? We need terms that have power with the “person” in the street. The suffering of the Palestinians is real … that cannot be conveyed by a term. Even as a child, glued to BBC World Service and Voice of America, etc, i can recall the propaganda wrapped up as news that Yasser Arafat was an obstacle to peace etc etc etc… even as a child, its sounded ridiculous to me. Arafat is long since very dead and the plight of the Palestinian people remain the same. It is the definition of planned wickedness that our governments Tories, masked and poorly masked alike should perpetuate the blatant heartless subjugation of any people … contrary to any scriptures… let alone one that is supposed to be “defended” by the mother of Air miles Andy, the honourable friend of the industrial scale pedophile Jeffrey Epstein…. oh and Air miles Andy’s brother Charlie says he wants to be “Defender of Faiths”… so whats his excuse??? Mummy might wiggle out, but the atrocities happen in their name, AND they pray every day. Anyway i digress.
On the way to the Kennedy Centre in DC, drove past the Watergate Hotel, and thought of scandal and crime and politicians and “the great and the good” who specialise in such crime and scandal… so thought of the self described “TOO HONOURABLE A FREIND” to Jeffrey Epstein – Prince Andrew.
RH, to describe the doings of Epstein or Harold Shipman with theories or terms, loses the impact, the tangibility, the grip, the connections that everyone can, well connect. Otherwise the scammers and merchants of death, destruction and suffering, continue to get away with it.
Yes, also re Jack T, i too was baffled by the failure of Jeremy and team to rebut the AS lies. I would have been prompt, clear and robust. Instead there seemed to be months of silence, appeasementS PLURAL , then a flood if pathetic apologies. Only Novara’s Walker … Michael I think, and Chris Williamson attempted to request evidence. Hence CW being treated so poorly. All others incl McD attempted to in McD’s own words “Do everything THEY asked”!!! Which “THEY”? Who is the “THEY” McD to whom referred??? Who appointed them “they”. Is it not racist ti assume that any people are one homogenous blob???
I feel that the vile accusations could be demolished with hard facts and some fundamental questions, not to mention the historical facts of institutional racism in the Tory party, and much of the MSM. These are the concrete rebuttals of deliberate lies and slanders against Jeremy and proper Labour. McCluskey is a million percent on the money. And, i believe we must show the liars up for what they are, including 1️⃣ They can NEVER speak for even a large minority of Jewish people. 2️⃣ No one appointed them to their ever trumpeted, paraded and inflated positions. 3️⃣ As with ALL people, our views are as diverse and varied as grains of sand.
Speaking of which, absolutely LOVE the exterior finish of the Jewish Museum across from the Washington Monument. Was rushing by several months ago, and rushing by again on Friday, but the oxidised finish is one of infinite pixilation and across time … an infinite process, like us, humans and all we create … like politics…
spnw, the alternatives to campaigning on an honest left wing manifesto are:
1. discard all thoughts of socialism and concentrate on power for its own sake like Blair.
2. pretend to discard all thoughts of socialism, get elected on ‘centrist’ policies and then cheat the electorate, effectively introducing socialism under false pretences.
Which is your preference?
My preference is to stay socialist and promise future laws to enforce honest reporting on the media.
Make them fear jail for their treason in subverting democracy with their lies.
Just a public statement of intent will start a conversation that will rock the establishment.
David, definitely not 1. and 2. Rather as i possibly explained poorly this AM, the focus, prioritising, sequence is all wrong. We do everything in order to be effective. Why not politics. Be it explaining a surgical procedure or an industrial one. We do not just jump to the bit to which we are most attracted / interested. Interestingly, for eg your “Make them fear jail for their treason in subverting democracy with their lies.” That and many other laws can be implemented quite swiftly. As well as jailing the scammers behind the HS2 £billions debacle. Making the tech companies pay proper tax etc. But all of that are things that call for incisive thought, preparation and ACTION. Not threats, not symbolic gestures, not marches. Instead, clear planning and ACTION eg disallow the spawn of Thatcher flooding the party with right wing Entryist. The NEC can allow new members but they should not under any circumstances be slipped to vote in the leadership elections. So RELEVANT, effective, TIMELY action. Enough endless promises like the bloated manifesto. A longterm plan when people were not interested in a longterm plan. Enough “starting of conversations”… then being at the mercy of the likes of BloJohn & Blair.
But i am not being clear enough. When i get back, will try again.
spnw, re. your 12:31
The way I see it is that actual implementation of the legislation I’m proposing isn’t necessary to make the media fear to be caught lying.
Implementation will only be possible once we’re in government anyway so it’s a chicken and egg situation.
The point is that by announcing our intent to make lying to the electorate by news media a criminal offence punishable by imprisonment – and that the legislation will be retroactive – we cause an outcry from the Tories and the media.
We’ll be called Stalinists and everything else but the cat would be out of the bag. We can win the debate because the media and the Tories ARE liars and we can prove it a thousand times over.
Tories have no defence against the truth but the people have to hear the truth free of spin – for that to happen the media have to fear the consequences of subverting democracy.
Let’s face it, we’ve got nothing to lose – the Tory Axis of Evil has its jackboots on our necks.
I’m for fucking them up.
*blaim*
Too fucking tedious – ‘analysis’ from ‘the only socialist in the village’ that conveniently avoids any mention of co-platforming UKIP while warning us of the danger from the far right.
Laughably belated warnings of entryism, as if there were some way to prevent Quislings wearing red until they’re in positions to push right wing policies and people.
Those cats haven’t seen the inside of a bag for years.
I’d join the Communist party if it didn’t smell of trainspotters, warm beer, bad poetry and Special Branch.
David ” ‘analysis’ from ‘the only socialist in the village’ that conveniently avoids any mention of co-platforming UKIP while warning us of the danger from the far right.”
Spot on and then he tries to deflect the attention and blame on to those of us who saw the twin dangers of the far right weaponising anti-Semitism and anti-EU rhetoric.
He also can’t see that calling Tory swing voters the ‘Core’ Labour vote is f.cking nonsense.
The *actual* ‘Labour Heartlands’ today aren’t limited geographical, ex-industrial areas. They are a dispersed, mainly urban, coalition of ugulled working and middle class individuals who aren’t conned by the SunMail nexus. They can distiguish their political arses and elbows.
The distinguishing feature of the *real*’Heartland’ is that they would – whatever else – NEVER vote Tory – or even contemplate it!
“The distinguishing feature of the *real*’Heartland’ is that they would – whatever else – NEVER vote Tory – or even contemplate it!”
Not that far away from Mandleson’s arrogant “they have nowhere else to go” nonsense.
Those heartlands like:
– Barnsley. Home of the former HQ of the Yorkshire Miners. Where the Brexit Party came second in both seats.
– Rother Valley. Former mining area. Lost to the Tories. Though it did not help that Momentum PLC parachuted in a pre picked candidate with, let’s say, a dubious attitude towards certain sensitive issues in that particular part of he world –
https://unherd.com/2019/11/labours-fun-feminists-are-enabling-exploitation/?sfns=mo
– Bassetlaw. Another former mining area lost. Though, again the Monopoly Left of Lansmans PLC had to openly gerrymander another candidate when they lost the initial PPC husting. In this case a complaint (which Holborn & St Pancras CLP publicly denied all knowledge of) against the origanal chosen candidate reported to have come from the partner (and fellow Councilor) of one of the Party’s top legal people in the complaints unit.
Who (the reported complainant) put in for selection in four seats two of which were in the North – one of which they pulled out of the day before the hustings. Effectively providing a clearer run for another Lansman PLC candidate who lost another former steel and mining seat in S. Yorkshire. A candidate with existing complaints against them which, like Rother Valley, were kept from the members,at the hustings.
Bolsover, Blyth Valley, and a whole load of other seats in communities which generation after generation returned Labour MP’s which since Kinnock got adandoned and left behind for decades because their vote was taken for granted whilst the Party preferred to look after the Professional and Managerial classes.
Well they found somewhere else to go RH. And no matter how much you kid yourself by wrapping that comfort blanket tightly around you, closing your eyes and sticking your fingers in your ear, the stark reality is those seats were heartland seats which the Party finally drove other the edge with its suicidle stance (supported and defended to the hilt by yourself) over the. EU issue.
Deal with it rather than arrogantly dismissing those areas because the truth does not fit your own deep seated and deeply damaging prejudices.