Labour Party chair Ian Lavery, who had seen a huge groundswell of support for a bid for the party’s leadership, has just announced that he will not be standing in the contest.
Lavery has issued the following statement:
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So the now the ‘Left’s chosen candidate is an ex corporate lawyer.
So
thenow the ‘Left’sAs troll posts go, that’s about 2/10
I don’t give a fuck about her past; I care about her commitment to the Labour party.
Not – like some tory-enablers – about wrecking the Labour party.
If that’s your best shot, it’s sad. Very sad.
Time to hand in your membership card?
(Assuming you have one to hand in?).
Is that what you said about Keir Starmer. Having just renewed my long standing membership of the Labour Party I’m awaiting the arrival of my new membership card which I fully intend to hang onto.
heenan73 06/01/2020 at 11:32 pm
Whilst my post is simply a statement of fact your comment about RLB a couple of days ago is a statement of your opinion.
Were you trolling when you posted this about JLB?
Oops! – Obviously
JLBshould read RLBHanded my membership card in on the 24th June 2016, when a certain person I had previously much admired stated that article 50 should be invoked “now”.
Chris Lovett at 1:47 am
I too thought that this was a bad call by JC. Will you be rejoining the party so that you can vote in the Leadership Election?
Totally agree, heenan73. None like Starmar who created the out of touch hysterical remainiac defeated tosh, should have any place on a true Labour front bench. Starmer should go join Ummuna, Soubrey, Smeeth, Luciana Berger, Jo Swinson, Blair & Campbell who all LOST. The British Public REJECTED their lame arguments.
THE people spat out The People’s Vote speculation!!! Just as Gordon Brown spat out Tony Blair’s begging we join the Euro. The creature and its appendages were wrong on the EURO and wrong AGAIN with their super monied yet DEFEATED PEOPLE’s VOTE campaign. Yet they have the gall to think themselves necessary for our party. They perpetuated Margaret Thatcher’s destruction of our traditional Labour Heartlands with truck loads of Peter Mandelson’s scorn.
Keir Starmer’s ambitions should be, like Chukka Ummuna’s, in their beloved “centrist”, “moderate”, REMAINIAC metropolitan cliques like TIGS, CUKS and Liberal Democrats. How did the people embrace their same old same old??? Let Starmer join Jo Swinson as brilliant leaders, Chukka Ummuna as minister of ship jumping and self promotion and Starmer & Thornberry , joint minsters of Remain Frenzied Out of Touch ARROGANCE. Neil Coyle and Streeting and Jess Phillips should find a cosy nest with that lot! Now that would be a HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!
signpostnotwindchimes 07/01/2020 at 9:18 am
FFS Grow up
Trollpost 4/10
“Were you trolling when you posted this about JLB?”
your ‘statement of fact’ was fact posted as a smear, very obviously.
My post was an opinion, to which I’m entitled (as are you). And I stand by it. RLB has an uphill struggle to prove herself, and I hope she can do it. I have doubts.
I currently lean in her direction – faults and all – because while nobody is perfect, her views align most closely with mine.
Until we know the final field, I won’t make a firm choice – there may yet be surprises (Like you becoming loyal to the party you claim to be a member of?)
15p says that while you’ll continue to post smearing trollposts, you haven’t the guts to say who you support.
“Trollpost”
The term tends too often to simply indicate a lack of coherent answer to an opinion or statement that challenges a contrary view.
So :
“My post was an opinion, to which I’m entitled (as are you).”
Remember that advice.
Even signpostsnotwindchimes ramble around the loopy block of Tooting socialism is entitled to the walk.
“Trollpost – The term tends too often to simply indicate a lack of coherent answer to an opinion or statement that challenges a contrary view.
On the other hand, as so often the case with your posts (with a few notable exceptions), it accurately describes the content of the post.
Sadly we have the same poster’s once again undermining the culture of the Party while concealing their own agendas.
Yet regardless of entryist red-herrings its worth pointing out that Tony Benn was a peer of the realm. Yet no one doubted his socialist credentials even when his son turned out to be one of the most repellent of neoliberals supporting current racist-imperialist agendas.
It’s a matter of, case by case, actuality by actuality, and the policies that individual candidates support
Tony Benn spent two years fighting NOT to be a peer of the realm. That may (or may not) be a significant difference.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Benn#Peerage_reform
His son, luckily for all of us, is irrelevant.
Shame … wonder if he’ll consider standing as deputy
Makes it tougher … but life goes on.
The Project is still very much alive.
heenan73 06/01/2020 at 11:29 pm
Who will you be voting for now?
Isn’t strange entryists never reveal their own agenda but constantly question that of others?
Well spotted Bernie. For 2020, ignore trolls. Let ARS H Bots join Starmer, Coyle, Blair, Jo Swinson Chief Sec of the Renainiac Ref Revoakers, Chukka Ummuna Minister of Shiny ShipJumpers … what’s the result of Saville Row suited “CENTRIST”, “MODERATE” not “extreme left” UMMUNNA ??? How has the electorate embraced him??? And Soubrey, Smeeth, Luciana Berger… what’s Berger’s majority now??? … in Hendon or Finchley??? Even a Labour newbie won Putney!!! Even Vauxhall was retained by Labour. HOW DID THE LIB DEMS DO??? Swinson ???
NO REMAINIACS should be on our front bench. They lost this election in and OUT of Labour. Let them take the ARS Hbot trolls with them. Go keep the People’s Vote emptiness warm. Btw How’s the People’s Vote outfit led by “winners” Blair Campbell Miller, Allan Johnson Mandelsonn do??? What’s their record of victories??? The Ref? The EU Election?? The General Election??? Answers from the trolls please. They know everything… and they never give up. Their funding will never run out. Clearly of the 1%… their money NEVER runs out.
Who’re you going for SteveH ?
rob 07/01/2020 at 9:25 am
Who’re you going for SteveH ?
At the moment it will be either Clive Lewis or Keir Starmer, I’ll be listening carefully to what they have to say over the next few weeks.
I’ll decide when the nominations are clear (as I’ve said before). At the moment, I’m leaning towards RLB. or to be more accurate, I’m leaning away from tory enablers.
You?
(15p says you won’t say. Because that’s who you are).
heenan73 at 9:32 am
Really? That’s quite a dramatic turnaround from just a couple of days ago when you posted this about RLB. 😏
“RLB has already written her ‘leadership suicide note’ – “progressive patriotism” is a nonsense to appease the media, and shows the kind of sliminess we associate with Jeremy Hunt, though I am not suggesting she’s anything like as bad; merely as slimy. It’s an approach that wouldn’t survive three days in the real world.”
https://skwawkbox.org/2020/01/03/excl-lavery-rlb-face-off-next-week-to-decide-left-candidate-as-left-mps-meet/comment-page-1/#comment-132715
” entryists”
Definition?
Leavers pursuing a Tory policy? Momentum joiners? Blair? The majority of members who voted ‘Remain’? ex-Militant believers? Members who didn’t vote for Corbyn? Critics of the second ballot policy? Sceptics questioning knee-jerk leftism?
“” entryists” – Definition?”
He’s probably referring to tory-enabling trolls.
People claiming to be pro-Labour (and even claiming to be Labour Party members), but using every opportunity to undermine the party.
I’m surprised you haven’t noticed them …
There is even a rumour that they ARE LP members, but claim the cost back from their HQ as expenses, I’ve seen no evidence to support that awful possibility. Much more likely that they see it as a reasonable investment in their Labour-wrecking plans.
heenan73 07/01/2020 at 11:54 am · ·
There is even a rumour that they ARE LP members, but claim the cost back from their HQ as expenses, I’ve seen no evidence to support that awful possibility.
So on the basis of absolutely FA evidence you thought it would be a good idea to foster yet more discord. 🙄
Fostering discord among tory-enabling trolls is a dirty job, but someone has to do it.
And as they don’t count, no one gets hurt.
heenan73 is, to some extent correct – there were a lot of ‘Leavers’ arguing for Tory policy and against the Party and the majority of members. It would fit as a consistent pattern of real trolling.
Don’t be so modest, RH, in all my years of troll-finger stamping, I’ve never met a more committed troll that you: that’s why I tend not to take seriously accusations that you are paid. You do it because that’s who you are. Sad, but life goes on …
The term ‘troll’ has become a meaningless playground word in the mouths of the ‘entryist’ rattle-chuckers who follow Wolfie!
Trollpost 0/10 – Dribbling, and boring too.
Your pettiness is only exceeded by your desperation. The identity of the person labelling a post is irrelevant; if it’s a trollpost, it’s a trollpost. And yours almost always are.
Yes, yours. Trollposts. Own them.
You can whine endlessly at me (and you will), but that doesn’t get you off the hook. Now do yourself a favour and look up ‘on topic’ in your Funk & Wagnall’s. It was you that brought up Tooting, not me.
You really do need to get over your dilutions of grandeur. Your pathetic attempt at being some kind of self appointed witch-finder general is beginning to look a bit silly and adolescent.
No drama. I will support the one most likely to do the job well. If Lavery were standing, it would probably be him. He isn’t.
Despite her drawbacks, RLB is clearly the best of those currently standing. She’ll need to work on her presentation, but her drawbacks pale into insignificance when compared to, say Jess “I’m Very Popular Out There You Know”.
But we don’t yet know who’ll be running, so I’ve not made my final choice yet.
I was looking forward to vote for Ian Lavery as leader, I cannot support a corporate lawyer that helped with the privatisation of the NHS. I will be supporting Clive Lewis instead at least he is more genuine and principle than Rebecca Long-Bailey, he wants to democratise the party with open selections and to move to proportional representation, while keeping the anti-austerity Corbynite’s Agenda.
“he [Clive Lewis] wants to democratise the party with open selections”
Which probably explains why he didn’t get the support of Len McClusky.
“Which probably explains why he didn’t get the support of Len McClusky.”
Trollpost 1/10
And SteveH claims to be a Labour member.
heenan73 07/01/2020 at 9:34 am
I am of the opinion that Len’s <6% mandate from Unite's members doesn't justify the influence he exercises over the Labour Party. If Len wants to run the country then he should get himself elected to parliament and stand for the leadership of the party. I cancelled my membership of Unite when Len blocked steps towards the democratisation of the party by opposing mandatory reselection and he also changed Unite's rules on challenging for the union's leadership to make it much harder for anyone to challenge him in the future.
I’m not quite sure why criticism of a particular union bureaucrat should be a test of Labour Party membership/allegiance.
But let that be.
As to Clive Lewis – his has been a credible initial pitch with a relatively low proportion of hot air. And his stand on constitutional reform is credible.
Whether he has the experience or backing is another matter, but his record is in the right area, and he would be my current choice, too.
RH 07/01/2020 at 12:18 pm · ·
“Whether he [Clive Lewis] has the experience or backing is another matter, but his record is in the right area, and he would be my current choice, too.”
We share the same concerns about him, hopefully he’ll shine through in the various hustings that will take place over the next few weeks.
Proportional representation means an endless succession of coalitions and no more majority Labour governments. Labour has never won as much as 50% the vote.
Clive Lewis would thereby turn Labour into a charity for rescuing the Lib Dems. The Lib Dem leadership would decide in perpetuity who forms the government – a LESS democratic arrangement than at present.
Now that we have actually had an experience of coalitions in the form of the Cameron/Clegg effort, the Labour Party should avoid PR like the plague.
The anti-austerity agenda would be the first “unacceptable” thing to be negotiated away in coalition talks.
Disagree over the PR element of your comment Danny , PR would imo be the only way in th efuture that a Labour Govt might now come to fruition esp with the Tory gerrymandering over the new constituency boundaries
Well FPTP has served Labour so well, hasn’t it? From 1980 : 17 years in the wilderness, followed by Blair/Brown, followed by 15 years (at least) in the wilderness.
Great!
PR is obviously a much better system of representation – just remember that Mrs Clinton got a greater share of the US vote than Trump, and probably wouldn’t have been as bad.
Yes, it would help the LibDems and some other more deserving parties, but it would also help Labour too.
The SNP, Plaid, Greens, LibDems have all taken more from Labour than they have from the tories (for a number of reasons, good and bad), and FPTP was fine with just two parties and a rump of LDs, now, with a more diverse spread of voting opportunities, Labour will struggle to ever get a large majority, and winning is tougher than it was.
Remember that while the SNP, Plaid and the Greens are closer to Labour than they are to the tories, it also means that coalitions would be easier for Labour than the tories.
heenan73 at 12:02 pm
“PR is obviously a much better system of representation”
At last. something we can agree on.
On the PR thing – we have one socialist party and a bunch of Tories and pseudo-Tories that would set aside even major differences to keep any left wing party out of government.
Seems to me PR helps everyone but us.
Politics is a dirty game, let’s see how long it takes for attacks on RLB from within the party
Oh fuck TWatson yesterday,
Definition of insanity is ?
Every candidate who stands is going to have a tough time as the MSM pick over every speech made and FB post etc etc. Maybe Lavery had a few skeletons? Who knows? Already RLB’s memory (aged 2) has been questioned over her recollection of her Dad worried about his job on Salford docks. All the candidates are going to get put through the wringer. Maybe the one to best manage their past and get in by stealth will be the winner.
No member of the Labour Party should be reading the MSM. And any criticism of a candidate attributed to it ought to be considered a badge of honour.
It is far too early to hold an election-the membership has time to think about what happened, and why and what needs to be done to change the lives of the people. It is time that should be used. Racing to an immediate contest ensures a victory for the Blairite rump in the PLP-our own version of the Long Parliament and in need of a Colonel Pride’s purge.
With the best will in the world if the membership elect a socialist reformer to lead the party he or she will once again be given the treatment that Corbyn got. It just makes no sense to burden any new leader with an unreformed PLP, most of whose members have blood dripping from their hands. The membership should take charge and taking charge begins with de-selecting en masse, expelling traitors such as Hodge and Phillips and insisting that all MPs respect the right of the membership to elect and the choice of the electorate.
There’s nothing wrong with *reading* the MSM, provided you have a strong stomach, indeed, activists should familairise themselves with current tory thought. IT’s simply important not to be sucked into the lies and doubletalk that’s their bread & butter.
bevin 07/01/2020 at 12:19 am
That all sounds fine and dandy but the union leaders blocked mandatory reselection to maintain their own power and influence and even when the ‘Left’ were gifted a trigger ballot in Hodge’s constituency the ‘Left’, Momentum or whatever couldn’t get their act together to get rid of Hodge.
How exactly do you you envisage that this sudden democratisation of the party will take place?
Not just a “few skeletons” but am entire ossuary
Ian’s decision not to stand is disappointing. I know there has been a lot of comment about our next leader being female – I hope it was not Ian’s gender that caused him not to stand , I don’t care what sex our next leader is – I just want them to be the best for the job.candidate
While I will vote for whichever candidate is endorsed by Jeremy I do have serious doubts about Rebecca Long Bailey ( who Ian has endorsed) as she just doesn’t inspire me with confidence.
Smartboy
There is also a natural double act with AR, they will have each others backs and as flatmates should take a burden off
Let’s see how they line up on policies
I can well imagine AR telling Jess Phillip’s to fuck off
Yes Doug I can see your point . I assume Rebecca will support socialist policies otherwise Ian wouldn’t have backed her and I can’t see Angela not doing so as well.
Regarding your second comment about Angela telling Jess Phillips to F*** off, yes I can imagine it too . However I am sure if she did so Jess would have panic buttons installed in every room in her house and more bolts and chains put on her doors the full glare of publicity and have a police escort and/or private security guards ( at the taxpayers expense naturally) to accompany her everywhere she went except of course when she was attending parties in Rupert Murdock’s house.
It was noticeable that when JC went 4 talks with T May re Brexit, he took RLB with hin…
If the right undermine RLB once elected, is that enough to consult divorce lawyers
Most good solicitors will give you 30 minutes free to decide if it’s worth going to war over the dog
Yes I totally agree and in my opinion we should have off loaded them long ago.
Does RLB support mandatory reselection with OMOV?
Do you?
Ian Lavery for leader or game over!
I wouldn’t be surprised if Lavery was given a post that included ensuring RLB & AR have the backing they need to get the job done. I could see Lavery decking some the awkward squad if they start their shenanigans again. Rebecca Long-Bailey and Angela Rayner will get my vote.
Ooops – Obviously
JLBshould read RLBSorry Chris I posted this in the wrong place
pretend,,,, to love fiends of israel ,,, or lose ,,,sad but true,,, but once in power boot them out
Think that’s game over. Along with the suspension of Chris Williamson THIS is the end of Socialism in the Labour Party.
agreed!
Definitely wait until we know who’s running. then wait until we know who’s won.
depending on that, wait until the next conf. to see how the membership wants to go forward.
The project is not dead yet; it could even be the start of the next phase …
Sadly, you have hit an open wound. The pus never stops, it’s just a thing that Tapeworms produce. We can’t do a purge but now it’s vital that Socialism fights on. How, I dunno but I lack the creativity to vote for any of the above. Happy New year.
Whoever pretends to lead Labour needs to answer 3 questions: 1) do you respect the 2016 referendum result? 2) are you committed to ending foreign interference in the Labour Party and UK politics in general? 3) will you re-introduce the wording of clause 4 that once proudly adorned all our membership cards?
Lavery’s decision is not a shame it is a disaster. The Corbyn project is dead. He has handed the party over to tje witch hunters and revisionists. RLB is proud to be a witch hunter.She wiould be a disaster but Starmer will now win. The very people who put Corbyn in will now be hounded out. It is finished.
Well looks like we are being asked to vote for a shoddy set of candidates who have been anointed by the PLP.Looks like a time now for a bit of deep reflection of the future for socialism.Seems ian lavery couldn’t get beyond the PLP and NEC and the skeletons being thrown at him.Maybe it was the best thing for his family and I can understand that.
Very forward looking for IL to give way to RLB. She is mates with AR and I think they agreed AR to run 4 Deputy alongside RLB. One thing to do is for the left to unite behind shadow cabinet RLB chooses, which will of course include AR but should include IL, DB, DA, and maybe JC! The point is to show the RW rump that they may have succeeded in toppling JC but they won’t topple socialism!
As the Labour Party uses an STV system for our leadership elections it is arguable that whether Ian Laverty stood or not it would have had little or no impact on the final outcome.
Unless, of course, he’d won.
Think I’ll wait and see how this pans out. There’s gonna be a lot talk from the candidates and it’ll be hard to decipher.
I know one thing though, won’t be putting my name to any centrists or anyone who has spent the last three years undermining the leadership. If by chance one of these bastards do get voted in, I’m joining the green party.
Deeply disappointing and believe Labour is now fucked .
It is a great shame that all the efforts of JC and the activists in trying to transform the party will now go to waste as I don’t believe any of the mildly LW candidates such as RBL or Burgon or Lewis have the strength of character to continue or even uphold the existing improvements.
Have to seriously consider if I wish to remain a member , will see if Lavery intends to stand as Deputy ?
I’m sure that the solution is to elect another membership. 🙂
Its what the RW would love no doubt !
“Labour is now fucked ”
too soon to be saying that, as proven by RH’s joy at your frustration.
Wait and see.
The contest ain’t even started yet, and we won’t know the direction of the Party until the next conference.
Don’t be put off by the idiots, trolls and arseholes!
Humm still considering things probably should be more mature about it and resist knee jerk reactions , COnf may well be the deciding point .
Christ, Cardinal Wolfie, you can’t even read short posts accurately, let alone divine anything more complicated like the way forward for the Labour Party!
0/10 [sigh]
It was Ian Lavery for me all day, and I wouldn’t stand in the rain outside St George’s Hall for RLB. But we are where we are, and we have a mass party of mainly left wing socialists who joined or rejoiced because of JC.
Lets unite now to oppose Tory Austerity Cuts in our areas. They are going to be horrendous.
Pretty much sums it up for me, at the moment. I’m sorry we’ve lost JC, but we make the best of what we have and fight on – who knows, we may have much more than we think!
We definitely do not ‘have a mass party of mainly left wing socialists ‘, Sue ! That is a very common but fundamentally incorrect assertion. We in fact have a mass (certainly the activists)membership of Left-Liberals. Some of these Left-Liberals are quite ‘radical’ in their wish lists. ie, for a bit of nationalisation, an anti Austerity economic policy, taxing the Big companies and rich a bit more, tweaking the nose of the US imperialists, etc. But , as the overwhelming support of our supposedly ‘socialist’ activist membership at Conference for the suicidal second referendum and Remain policy in our 2020 Manifesto showed, our membership , even the ‘Corbynista fanboys and girls’ , couldn’t even grasp that the fundamental neoliberalism enforcing EU Single Market rules made carrying out a Left economic agenda quite impossible ! Political cognitive dissonance in spades.
The overwhelming majority of our membership are simply NOT socialists in any meaningful way – having no theoretical understanding of capitalism, or a vision of a socialist society beyond the capitalist marketplace. The core reason for this is the overwhelming middle class, relatively privileged, social background and job experience of our membership, from both our openly pro capitalist Right wing to our self identifying ‘Left’ Wing. For most of our membership the unlimited labour supply arising from the EU’s Freedom of Movement, which crucifies the wages and job opportunities of poorer unskilled and semi-skilled workers, is not a problem (in their safely immune privileged middle class jobs) – but something from which they constantly BENEFIT, via those ridiculously cheap Uber taxis, cheap delivery drivers, from Deliveroo onwards, cheap nannies, cheap polish plumbers and ever other feature of the casualised ‘Gig economy’ which helps keep the middle class lifestyle in comfort. So the Labour membership wallow in their virtue signalling enthusiasm for ever-wider Unlimited Freedom of Movement – blind to its consequences for the huge mass of workers , particularly in our old heartlands, who have abandoned Labour forever.
None of the candidates available in this Leadership contest are worth a damn to socialists. Long-Bailey will fold within a month and tow the Right Wing Blairite line of the overwhelming majority of the PLP if elected as Leader. Face it folks – the very flukey 2015-2019 Leftish, ‘Corbynite’ adventure of Labour is now over – as are all the mildly radical Leftish party formation, and short-lived electoral success, reactions to the 2008 financial crisis across Europe too – from Syriza, to Podemos, to Die Linke. The Labour Party will quickly settle back into triangulating opportunism on the traditional model – but with its policy positions dragged ever rightwards by the desire to stay close to the ever-Rightward moving Tory-led ‘Overton window consensus’ . Remember , ALL the current Leadership candidates around at the time abstained on that Welfare Benefits Bill, that Jeremy rightly opposed ! So they are all anti working class opportunist scum – regardless of their slippery words and promises now .
The Labour Party’s ‘Left’ has surely exhausted the mythology of ‘winning the Party to a socialist course’ now , after the utter failure of the tepid mild reformism and organisational cowardice of the Corbyn Old Labour Left circle during their brief Leadership role – during which not a single saboteur Right Wing PLPer was deselected or even disciplined ! It’s OVER for Labour folks. The Labour Party is a unredeemably capitalist Party with a few socialists wasting their time in it – and a very much larger number of naïve middle class , identity politics-saturated Left-Liberals , who think they are some sort of ‘socialist’, but in fact have no real fundamental ideological differences with the typical Lib Dem member.
What absurdly elitist comment.
“The overwhelming majority of our membership are simply NOT socialists in any meaningful way – having no theoretical understanding of capitalism, or a vision of a socialist society beyond the capitalist marketplace.”
You don’t need a university degree to understand the benefits of the NHS, free universal education, decent housing, and public ownership of key industries. Exactly the principles jeremy Corbyn fought for, and exactly the reason tens of thousands joined the party.
From deep in your graduate armchair, you may (or may not) be secretly relieved that your contempt for party hasn’t been destryed by a Corbyn victory, the great unwashed taking power. But it isn’t over yet, for many of us.
‘The Labour Party is an irredeemably capitalist Party with a few socialists wasting their time in it’ – that may be so if you are talking about the backroom schemers and the PLP; but if you refer to the membership, you are simply mistaken. The project is very much alive.
jpenney 07/01/2020 at 3:47 pm
Oh dear, does this mean you’ll be dusting off your beret and polishing your star. 👋
Ok, the ‘mainly’ may be wrong, but that’s all.
Well well well…
With Lavery taking himself out of the equation, who are you left with?
RLB? Tories and the MSM will love it, cue more years of going nowhere fast as the slanderous mud sticks.
Starmer? Certain posters here will be excited, but for many of us it’s a return to American bipartisanship…
To be honest, the new leader is fairly irrelevant. The thing to be talking about, that no one really is, is how Labour is infested from top to bottom with people who are happy to lose because of politics.
What chance does any leader have against councillors etc working against them?
Until Labour gets the Agean stable treatment (hahaha), it’s doomed (for both halves)
Thanks for your input.
Now sod off to Tory HQ and claim your 30p.
If your 73 part of your moniker highlights your age, then we have something in common.
We have more in common, in that neither of us are Tories. I remember the past well, how we were robbed, how solidarity was smashed and how things today are not “normal” (the kids think it is…) I even remember my parents crapping themselves about towing a caravan during the miners strike.
You may not like what I say, but I’m not part of the problem. Your problem is people like RH, and the positions they hold. I’m not your enemy, I’m a pissed off, frustrated socialist with an unhealthy dose of cynicism.
I’m done with Labour. I was before, but the NHS dragged me out of my sulk. There is no option for socialists in Britain, even the Greens are unsafe (remain stance was interesting…)
Why? Because of Far Cry 3. There is a point, before the bad guy tries to kill you (again) where he talks about the definition of insanity. Following Labour after the Corbyn experiment is insanity. It’s not going to change. We in Britain _will_ have a return to bipartisanship.
You seem a nice guy Heenan, good luck in your fight.
Thank you – I’m just unreasonably biased against your name 🙂
“I’m a pissed off, frustrated socialist with an unhealthy dose of cynicism.” – we certainly have that in common. I never joined Labour until Corbyn; I saw no point. For most of my life, Labour was much closer to the tories than it was to me. Now, it’s much closer to me, and a lot depends not so much on the leadership contest, but on the next conference. If we get the best leader, or at least one who will follow his/her mandate, then the project lives on, and I’ll keep fighting.
We’ll see. Meanwhile, don’t worry: the enemies of Labour are doubly the enemies of socialism (that’s why they wear brown trousers), and I’ll stamp on their fingers when necessary.
Go in peace!
Fascinating :
Never voting labour again : “I’m done with Labour. I was before, ”
heenan73 : “I never joined Labour until Corbyn”
I love the rattle-throwers lecturing those who have kept and keep the faith over the years, with all the messiness, frustrations and disappointments of real politics and a real coalition of members.that forms a Party.
Just rattle-throwing isn’t a serious option. *That* is the real problem with Tootingism.
“those who have kept and keep the faith over the years”
But you haven’t kept the faith. You keep nothing.
I’ve been a socialist all my adult life, and remain a socialist. I was overjoyed to join Labour when it reclaimed it’s socialist roots, and I’m fighting, as it the majority of the non-PLP party, to hold on to those gains.
You on the other hand, were happy when Labour got closer and closer to tory values, and you’ve been embittered since it moved back to where it (and its members) belong.
Now all you can do is troll. It defines your life. Sad.
I lived in Tooting once. We were proud of Wolfie. He may well never have risen as high as the lowly SWP – but his values were his own, and they were 1000 times better than yours are. Think on’t.
Sorry to disillusion you, Cardinal, but you’re a butterfly mouthing ‘socialism’ as a pretty pattern on your fluttering wings.
I simply quoted you admitting to that butterfly political allegiance – as if poncing around when Corbyn was elected leader was a praiseworthy action, instead of actually sticking in during the difficult times.
Your self-justifying imaginative rendering of my beliefs is just what it is : bollocks – and the pride in the insubstantial posing Wolfie confirms the shallow joke of your ready-meal version of ‘socialism’ as simply a slogan for dilettantes rather than a program for action.
Sorry – but you need a more convincing history than “I’ve been a socialist all my adult life”.
I’ve been a brilliant novelist all my adult life. Just never got pen to paper – let alone published.
“the insubstantial posing Wolfie” – Sneer all you like, both at Wolfie and me – let’s face it, it’s your only skill.
But the fact remains, Wolfie’s values were his own, and they were 1000 times better than yours are.
And comparing your basking in Tony Blair’s sunlight with my political life gave me a good laugh, thanks.
Don’t bother with the novel. It won’t sell.
Shame so has to be RBL/Burgon, good cop, bad cop.
Look on bright side perhaps left wing democtratic socialists now have about 60 Labour MPs and 66% of the membership.
The useless centre/left lost one election then the Right the last two but if we get out amongst the poor and in Leave areas offering political and practical support we can rebuild WITH the left behind.
Once Brexit is done and dusted the Tories one trick pony will evaporate and we need to expose them as the Neo-Liberal Right Wing market fundamentalists that they are for the rich and powerful as they screw the poor yet as Neo-Liberalism teeters.
We can win.
RBL & RB!
Maybe there is just the possibility that we’ve all been conned over Ian Lavery’s intention to stand for the party’s leadership.
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/ian-lavery-serious-contender-labour-leadership-1352462
However, one centrist MP has smelt a rat in reports of Mr Lavery’s potential candidacy.
Toby Perkins tweeted: “Don’t be fooled by this. It’s purely an attempt to convince us all that RLB is not a far left choice. He won’t really stand, she will.”
Most of us don’t give a lot of credence to oddball comments from ‘centrist’ MPs. And if you think about it, it doesn’t even make sense (now there’s a surprise).
How does his not standing convince anyone of anything about RLB?
All his decision has done is demoralised many on the left, and – if anything – damaged RLB and the Left.
heenan73 07/01/2020 at 1:48 pm
Most of us don’t give a lot of credence to oddball comments from ‘centrist’ MPs.
Which is why I started off my comment with “Maybe there is just the possibility“
Hmmm.
Never occurred to you to simple chuckle and move on to something interesting and possibly useful?
What made you think his analysis might be so uncharacteristically accurate?
And You’ve posted this twice, haven’t you? (maybe someone else last time)?
heenan73 07/01/2020 at 3:41 pm
I came across the article several days ago when I was researching the ‘surge’ in grass-roots support for Lavery.
I have not endorsed its accuracy in any way, quite the contrary, my comment expresses a good deal of scepticism.
I don’t think I’ve posted it before, but please let me know if you find anything to the contrary.
“I don’t think I’ve posted it before, but please let me know if you find anything to the contrary.”
Happy to take your word for it; just that I’d seen it before, and I don’t follow that source. Ne’er mind. Not important.
Perkins is an absolute cunt and should never ever been allowed to stand in what was once the holy LW grail of Tony Bens Chesterfield . He is an imposter and a RW Blairite twat.
rob 07/01/2020 at 5:07 pm
I got the same impression of him myself.
I tore up my Labour Party membership card again, as JC announced the ‘Vote Again’ policy. I tore up my membership card the 1st time when Blair supported Bush, but re-applied when JC became leader. The one thing that hurts the most is when hope is finally extinguished……….the hope that the Labour Party will finally become a ‘Socialist’ Party. The hope has gone & there is nobody left to fan the flames from the ashes.
“The one thing that hurts the most is when hope is finally extinguished”
This! This a thousand times!
Steve Richards, WE are left to fan the flames. We are “somebody”… well except the ARS H bots… Yes hope extinguished seems more crushing … worse than not to have had hope. A new leader must recognise that. They must not recognise that a membership must have spirits fired. They must see leadership as: FULL TIME, VISIBLE, AUDIBLE, ASSERTIVE, INCISIVE, DECISIVE, and focus on the BASICS. The basic needs in everyday lives and living, HERE AT HOME. It is ridiculous to believe we can influence matters abroad by symbolic statements and motions while neglecting the urgent needs of the electorate at home.
Never again must our Labour Party produce terms like “Constructive Ambiguity”. The term indicates strongly an attempt to deceive, a failure to be decisive, a failure to see an opportunity in circumstances so lets sit on the fence with a contrived term.
And the new leader must have clear reasoned positions AND PERSUADE with evidence and reasoned debate, UP FRONT. Not sit back and wait to see how the dust settles. And, critically, the new leader MUST get a effective team. They must take on the MSM and set the narrative. People follow directions from what they hear, NOT the deep inner unexpressed or infrequently expressed ideas. Few, if any have the gift of telepathic transmission… and even then, how many of us have the gift of telepathic reception???
Without those twinned communication gifts, leadership by telepathy, prolonged silence, baffling invisibility and silence just will not do.
The new leader must NEVER make it possible for the MSM to choose barely audible clips to be played on loop. The MSM is a hostile force yes, but that does not mean we should give in without even trying diligently. The MSM is part of the environment. We cannot govern if we cannot face that. We can!!! WE DID!!! Jeremy won the leadership and coups despite the MSM. But winning is a sustained effort. The new leader must be ready for that sustained effort.
signpostnotwindchimes – It is not something that happens very often but on this rare occasion I am shocked to find myself in complete agreement with your comment.😲
Steve Richards…I know exactly how you feel and I am sure many others feel the same.But step back as I will do and think about what’s it all about and whats if any are the options for socialism..Maybe in a few weeks things can happen and we may just be supprised.I live in hope for a fairer more decent society.It’s victory day over a genocidal regime and day of hope for Cambodia here..The Khmer Rouge slaughtered their own people and tried to take the people back to year 1 and emptied the citys to return the people backwards.to living on the paddie fields.I am sure that if the cambodians could rid the country of evil and genocidal dictators.then we in the Labour party will find a solution to johnson and our enemy within…..in solidarity with a wing and a prayer.
buoyed by your enthusiasm Joseph , one hopes for something
Little Becky distances herself from Corbyn on Brexit and anti-Semitism + details of Corbyn’s mini reshuffle of the shadow cabinet.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/rebecca-long-bailey-says-privately-21229617
The report – if accurate – certainly clarifies that she isn’t ‘the woman’.
No notable credentials there in the kow-towing to the Israel Lobby and the backing of a nuclear deterrant. I don’t necessarily expect perfect agreement, but there’s nothing other than hot air to compensate.
A definite coss-off.
The line-up is worryng.
Just a further thought that comes to mind about her waffle.
What, FFS, would she have done differently from Corbyn, apart from self abasement and flagellation, given that all that he could be criticised for is *not* opposing the accusations with a greater degree of conviction?
Polish the shoes of the BoD?
That is the crux for me re RLB , it’s her inability to stand up against the AS bullshit of the Bod and LOFI/JLM , vis falling into line with the contrived expulsion of Chris Williamson .
Still deeply suspicious of her , even having read Ian Laverys glowing endorsement of her on his Tribune article , I at present remain unconvinced , not too bothered by Trident at present , it’s a dead duck anyway and should we ever get to power as a socialist movement , it’d be in the bin and replaced with Green New Deal jobs instead.
I’ve just listened to the interview that she gave on BBC R4 Today Programme and quite frankly I’m no wiser about what she actually stands for. I think the article I linked to above was probably based on this interview.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000d1yv
Listen from 2:10:07 to 2:23:15 (13 minutes)
Indeed. As said, I’ve not been overly impressed by the line-up – but the positive side of that is that I’m open to persusion and presentation of a convincing platform. Basically, she blew that possibility.
As you say, rob, the nuclear deterrent isn’t a deal-breaker : it’s such a nonsense that I can uderstand any realistic politician crossing their fingers behind their back in order not to open up a theoretical issue to attack.
But yes, Steve – I’m not sure about those beliefs beyond commonplaces : not inspirational.
I don’t think Corbyn got everything right in making the transition from the awkward squad to leadership, but he does have authenticity and clear principles.
@RH “I don’t think Corbyn got everything right in making the transition from the awkward squad to leadership, but he does have authenticity and clear principles.”
Agree
AND that is the major problem I have with any of the LW candidates so far . I just do n’t at present see any authenticity . resilience or in some cases solid principles . I am trying to keep an open mind and expect it to change as the hustings and time progresses , dependant upon their performances.However this will always be balanced by their past proven actions and there is the rub ,,, NONE of them come close to Corbyn .
The RW candidates don’t even register on my radar !