Those who stay, decide. Labour’s left membership must stay and roll up its sleeves for the fight for the direction of the party – the right is already making its move
Labour’s membership surged by around five thousand on the day after the general election.
This may be a show of determination by supporters to help see the party through the leadership transition and the fight to undo the massive damage caused by the centrist-driven decision to back a new referendum instead of the party sticking to its 2017 commitment to a Labour leave deal to respect the 2016 referendum result.
But it may also be the first sign of a centrist attempt to pack members into the party in readiness for the leadership contest – probably to back the right-wing hope Jess Phillips.
Ms Phillips gave a remarkable but entirely unsurprising interview on Friday in which she strongly indicated she is planning a bid for the Labour leadership – and then proceeded to show why some locals nickname her ‘Mimi‘, by launching into an exposition of how great the public thinks she is:
Phillips does not only want to win the leadership. She made clear she wants to rebuild the party in her image – and made a thinly-veiled threat that this would involve a wholesale clear-out of left people from the party’s key structures.
This show of ego and arrogance coincides with the news that the Labour right hopes to recruit 100,000 new Labour members to secure the leadership – probably for Jess Phillips:
At the same time, Labour members grieving the election result and the coming end of Jeremy Corbyn’s tenure as leader are in danger of leaving the party – comments on social media along the lines of ‘when Jeremy goes, I go’ are not hard to find.
And while all this is going on, either the Tories or the Labour right have been busy setting up fake leadership-bid accounts on social media to try to divide the left on the issue of who it should back.
The message for Labour’s huge left majority is simple: you need to stay in the party and in the majority. And don’t just stay – recruit your friends, too.
It is, of course, not the first time that the Labour right has threatened to recruit 100,000 members for its cause – the same was said during Corbyn’s second leadership battle.
That failed completely and Corbyn increased his majority. But a new left candidate has still to be identified and the media are pushing at every opportunity the outright lie that Thursday’s result was a public reject of the policies the public loved in 2017. Every Labour member who leaves in grief at the success of lies and smears in ending Corbyn’s leadership therefore lowers the bar for the right to drag Labour back into Tory-lite territory as they have been desperate to do since 2015.
And that will deprive the country of a genuine choice at the next election that millions so desperately need – and will need even more by then.
The old political saying applies: decisions are made by those who turn up. Except that in this case the decision will be made by those who stay in.
Stay in Labour to secure its direction and its heart. And bring a friend.
Corbyn may be stepping down, but the battle – the struggle – goes on.
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I just posted this via Jonathan Cook on another topic. I see it as a prime example of how the media and establishment supporting/supported politicians work to manage public perception. KGM invites viewers to disregard what their eyes are seeing and ‘listen’ to what he is saying he sees.
https://twitter.com/Jonathan_K_Cook/status/1206129221543829506
I do not want Corbyn step down. If so, I more likely to leave LP.
No that is exactly the wrong thing to do right now Kumiko .
Read what has been written above to grasp why , I understand and empathise with you I feel the same BUT to do so would allow the very Bastards who caused this to WIN. And they don’t give a Fxxx if you leave , no loss to them , in fact its a gain , so don’t give them the satisfaction or even the hope that you’ll go , take their Hope away , just like the PLP did to us !
Work with your CLP to support the coming motion of Mandatory De-selection that will inevitably be put fwd to this yrs COnf . We must have that in order to clear out the shit we have as some MPs first up Gobshite Phillips
If a loud mouthed vulgarian such as Jess Phillips whose only interest apart from criticising and undermining Jeremy Corbyn is me,me,me ever became leader I would l resign my membership and go back to being switched off from politics like I was in the New Labour years.
We cannot and will not allow Jess Phillips or even a less unpleasant but equally right wing candidate take the leadership. This is what they have been working for since 2015 and they must not be rewarded for their dirty tricks, snide remarks outright lies and smears. They along with their pals in the establishment, Tory party and MSM lost us this election. They must not be allowed to to forget that.
Don’t walk away comrades, this is what the Right Wing Remainers (poorly read and timid) want.
Labour lost because it didn’t honour Leave.
Just bumped into Right Winger on bus and some sociologists were right, people with strong beliefs don’t change their views even when presented with compelling evidence (Labour lost 80 seats in Leave areas) they just try to find things which confirm their beliefs, her intellectual somersaults were almost amusing if millions weren’t to suffer because of them!
I am a left wing democratic socialist who looks at the arguments and evidence and can change my position (from reluctant remainer to leave) and as Rosa Luxemburg once argued, “The best thing we all bring to the table is our independent socialist critical thinking.”
In descending order:
Phillips is a political moron,
Keir and Thornsbury are right wing opportunists who are responsible for the defeat and Thornbury stabbed the Venezeulian socialists & w class in the back.
Angela Rayner is a good working class kid but a bit lightweight.
Has to be Rebecca Long Baily and Richard Burgon as deputy.
Sorry Rob WHY?
It will be the same shit even if we elect the most left wing candidate going. The party machine will continue to play stupid games with there press friends. I am sorry to say this but honestly I feel we whould do better splitting the party one and for all.
The left should go and rebuild Labour as Labour the Tory lite Labour in name only can play there games they will soon without the protection of Labours name disappear.
It might take a couple of elections to rebuild but that is better than limping on like this something drastic has to change. I for one will not be supporting a new blairite Labour in name only party.
I held my nose the first time, I fought and tried for change and been denied it! I won’t allow false hope and we have to hold on a fight a hopeless fight again…
No, Kumiko we need you to stay in and help us fight and continue the socialist policies Corbyn fought for, it may just be time to select a new left leaning Leader.
I was going to leave in July whatever the result.I am now staying because we cannot have the socialist revival trashed by the establishment..The BBC will not be choosing for me.
Well yes, of course. Stay in and fight. But there is yet no credible candidate for the leadership to take over from Jeremy Corbyn. Phillips, Nandy, Long-Bailey, Starmer are just dreadful. All the principled true Labour MP’s have been culled. How much power do the grassroots membership actually have in deciding on who will be the next Labour leader?
If the right one stands then they win, will they want to come forward after the way Jeremy was virtually lynched from day one well they’ll have to be an incredibly tough person to cope and have an incredible plan to out do the media
And that is a huge problem for us , perhaps if we simply accept that who ever it is , there will be a concerted effort to undermine them from all MSM and establishment. They will need to be as tough as nails Corbyn was and he bore it with incredible humility . Where I’d make one difference is that where there was outright contempt and slanderous behaviour , think Margaret Hodge , there must be a ruthless application of the rules by the Party to remove the whip and sack the MPs concerned , no appeasement , never again . It worked very well with Johnson who now has a party that supports him 100% , its called DISCIPLINE , and it must be applied , we also need a highly effective rebuttal team dare I say it like Cambell as an press attack dog and a vicious team of lawyers who will SUE at the drop of a hat any MSM reporter twat like Kussenberk for all they have .
We must realise as a party we have NO friends AT ALL in the MSM , only our selves , and trying to co-operate with them does nothing .
It is a HUGE problem because we must now surely recognise it means no government like one led by Corbyn will ever be allowed to succeed; If it isn’t shot down in a staged election it will be undermined in an economic war. Social Democrats are all too easy targets when faced with the mercenary murderers of the Right.
rob, yes, yes yes !!
There was a 6 month freeze on new members before they can vote in 2016, but that was under that dubious McNicoll. I want mimi to go for the leadership and get absolutely Kendalled !!
reply to Fibro confused
I don’t want to see Jeremy go – I am one of the alleged scum,thugs, bullies, antisemites, dogs, marxists,trots etc who supports Jeremy Corbyn to the hilt. I have been devastated since we got the result of the exit poll on Thursday night and am so angry about the behaviour of the right wingers in the PLP which led directly to our defeat and 5 more years of austerity.
You are absolutely right about the way Jeremy was treated since day one. He is an exceptional man and was able to take all the abuse and vilification thrown at him from within the party by Philips, Hodge etc and from outside it and never lowered himself to the level of his abusers.
If Jeremy decides to go we need another person like him to take over.They will no doubt face the same vicious hostility and will need to be up for it. The newly elected Sam Tarry is totally loyal to Jeremy Corbyn and his socialist principles.He is also an experienced Trade Union official and is as tough as old boots.
When the day comes that Jeremy steps down I would like to see him put forward Sam as his preferred candidate for the leadership
Are you not aware of how the corporate media et al reacted to the prospect of Margaret Hodge being disciplined Rob? Here’s just ONE example out of scores of articles at the time. I mean why on earth do you thing the LP quickly backed down:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6810087/fury-as-corbyn-aide-says-veteran-jewish-labour-mp-will-be-disciplined-for-accusing-party-leader-of-being-racist/
I mean she didn’t just do it on the spur of the moment, and she and her chums contrived the idea – in the first place -to get maximum publicity, and in the second place to dare the LP to take action against her for doing what she did, knowing that ‘they’ could all pile in with shed-loads of condemnation of the LP – and Jeremy of course – if they attempted to discipline her.
At the end of your post you say the following:
‘We must realise as a party we have NO friends AT ALL in the MSM’
Exactly! Only enemies! And I don’t think you need to urge anyone on the left to realise what the situation is, as it’s been more than evident since shortly after Jeremy was elected leader, even BEFORE.
Smartboy
Sam Tarry and Laura Pidcock are the grandbairns, bodes well for the future,
Next Leader has to be a woman, what say you
Reply to Doug
I don’t see why the gender of the leader should form part of the considerations Doug. The best person for the job should be selected irrespective of gender, sexual orientation , disability etc. Having been active in the Trade Union movement for many years I have seen how often the right wing have exploited the under representation of women at certain levels within the movement in order to one of their number elected. This is one of the reasons I am also against all women shortlists.
And no doubt just about everyone has heard the media saying that it’s the worst result for Labour since 1935. But it isn’t, as I suspected was the case, and it’s just one more Big Lie. In an article reproduced on JVLs website Roger Silverman says the following:
Just as the media lied outrageously and shamelessly throughout the campaign, displaying blatant bias, so still now they are lying through their teeth in their reporting of this result. Yes, this is a bad result for Labour. But their repeated description of it as “Labour’s worst result since 1935” is simply yet another outright lie. In terms of the total number of votes won, this is Labour’s second best result out of the last five general elections, winning 10.3 million votes, compared to 9.5 million in 2005, 8.6 million in 2010, 9.35 million in 2015, and 12.9 million in 2017. Even in terms of percentages, Labour’s result this time, at 32.2%, is not as bad as in 2010 (29%) or 2015 (30.4%). So the unremitting poisonous filth of the media in discrediting Corbyn haws continued beyond the election campaign. The truth is that under his leadership, Labour has twice in two successive elections won more than ten million votes – something that Blair failed to achieve in 2005, Brown in 2010, or Miliband in 2015.
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/taking-stock-a-wider-selection/
Afterthought: So 10.3 million people voted for a rabid antisemite and a party infested with anti-semitic bullyboy thugs! Hmm.
I expect the CAA and the JLM et al will be claiming they are all anti-semitic for doing so. And no doubt John Mann will have them all in his sights!!
What a totally repugnant and putrid joke they all are.
Smartboy
Positive discrimination is essential where we fall short,
Not least working class candidates,
Then there is the challenge with local parties where right wingers have the process stitched up,
Sam Tarry would be worthy of the 12 cans lying cold and lonely in my fridge from thursday night,
But not yet,
We need him and Laura to grow into the job before we expose them to the inevitable shitfest,
Regards and respect
reply to Doug
Don’t agree with you about Sam Tarry but I do see your point – he’s only new into parliament and although a strong union man he lacks experience in the workings of Westminister.
In relation to a female leader – I agree but only if she is the best person for the job.Electing a woman just because she is a woman cannot be right.
Allan Howard 15/12/2019 at 7:40 pm · ·
Are you not aware of how the corporate media et al reacted to the prospect of Margaret Hodge being disciplined Rob
Yes Allan I am well aware of the kick back , and that’s why I stated and re state that we have no friends in the MSM and thus I don’t think we should give a dam about the repercussions to our disciplining of wrecker MPs , they have just destroyed our chances of election and I don’t want that to happen or even be a faint possibility in the future . So do the job now , get shut of em , take the hit in the Press , we haven’t got anything to loose , we have already lost , but we have much to gain by stripping out the dross
Quite right Rob The time for appeasement of racist bigoted red tories is over. If in doubt sue the bastards we should set up a fund for this and also to protect our members/supporters who are threatened with the same for telling the truth. Mann,Smeth,
Watson et al have had their day. John Mcdonnell was right but the traitors/MSM have used most of their ammunition.
Its time also to fight for the reinstatement of Marc,Jackie and Chris true socialist comrades.
MayAyers……Whats to stop Corbyn staying till someone suitable comes along We are the Labour party and we provide the monry and we have the !muscle to sort out the Anti democracy NEC and governance who make up rules on the hoof….Time for change!
I don’t think the right would seriously back Phillips,she is just being waved in our faces to frighten us into thinking the likes of Thornberry would be better.
Don’t be too sure- they are stupid enough for anything!
Teehee.
We can choose from who?.Not seen anyone yet who fits the bill. The media can bleat and it really doesn’t matter anymore.
These are very weird times in politics, but I still have my diploma in statistics and it tells me that no way is Jess ‘the lip’ Phillips going to be our next leader.
I wouldn’t call Jess Phillips “the lip”. I think “self centered careerist who made a massive contribution to the Tory landslide” is more appropriate
I call her ‘the gob’.
Reply to wlbcarepants
What about” self centered careerist gob etc” Lol!
Surely new members won’t be allowed to vote in the Leadership Election. What’s the rules?
I think you have to be a member for 3 months or maybe 6 not sure , but there is a time limit before being allowed to vote
got to watch the deputy leadership race so they dont repeat this wheeze
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Labour_Party_deputy_leadership_election
It would be interesting to see who Momentum selects, I can’t think of anyone to trust, only Dan Carden, but he’s too young and inexperienced. I used to like Long-Bailey but the way she shit on Chris Williamson I don’t trust her
David lowton….Double barrell Bailey also undermined Corbyn and ran with the isreali government lobby.Vote for a carrerist and go backwards.People need to learn from the Tom Watson fiasco that did terminal damage to the Labour party..Chris Williamson is just one example of double barrel Bailey.
Agreed Joseph , I don’t think she has the strength of character needed to stand the thrashing anyone now becoming the Leader will get from the MSM. It is and has become a utter monster in our society and is highly destructive to our democracy
As a reminder to all, remember that the RWingers read this blog as well .
Well if they read this I hope they are getting the message- they are primarily responsible for our defeat last Thursday – they have been working towards this since 2015 sniping at and undermining Jeremy every 5 minutes – and if they think for one second we will reward them for giving the Tories a landslide by electing one of them leader then they have another think coming!
Rob I hope the RW do read this because the membership are not going backwards,just because the country is.No way anything so far anything the press have backed. Too many traitors to mention.Might be an idea to boycott an election and leave Corbyn in position no matter how long it takes.
Absolutely – RESIST! IF they capture the Party then it’s time to think it through BUT that time is not yet here.
Neither must we forget the role of Skwawkbox in the foregoing disaster. He took great delight in labelling anyone from the left or the right who did not agree with the Lexiters, as ‘Centrists’, thereby amplifying the splits.
The disaster isn’t on Skwawkbox’s plate , troll ! The convoluted ‘logic’ of the strange Jack T! In fact Skwawkbox rightly warned constantly of the danger all this year that Labour’s ever-growing shift to Second Referendum and Remain would endanger the votes of our Key ‘left behind’ working class Labour Heartlands. And wadya know – Skwawkbox was absolutely correct – by falling for the plotting for a Remain and a ‘Peoples Vote’ policy, heavily funded by Mandeson/Blair/ Campbell, precisely as a ‘policy wedge to separate Jeremy from his naive supporter base, and ensure a huge election defeat , our Party’s eventual sellout to a Remain position as the Election neared did indeed lose us our heartland voters AND the General Election !
It was YOU Remainer zealots that lost us our heartland voters – and no amount of lying by you trolls will alter that stark fact.
Jpenney, correction, it was Zionists, probably including yourself, who contributed to the undermining of Corbyn and Labour’s defeat.
Absolutely spot on. The FBPE in my opinion are the biggest bunch of dogmatic zealot brats who constantly badmouthed Corbyn throughout the last couple of years. They caused this shit and should just own it. But they wont they will continue to blame everyone but themselves.
The “sacred” heartland voters, who might have had very good reason to feel betrayed by the RW of the party, but knew very well there would be too high a price to pay, not only by them but by others too, for voting Tory.
But went ahead and committed the unforgivable crime anyway. The utterly selfish cunts. Fuck ’em. They’ve held a gun to the party’s head long enough. Let them go. Do not grieve them or their lost dirty votes. they knew exactly what they were doing. We don’t need spiteful, ignorant scum in our party.
Good grief Jack T , words fail , absolute shame on you , lets shoot the messenger not those responsible , you are reaching imo that of a troll standard . Now retract and apologise , because if it were not for alt media like this one , we’d NEVER get to know or understand half of what goes on .
Not supporting Brexit lost us the election and that comes from the doorsteps of Normanton where I canvassed and is unarguable end of .
That JackTwit is odd. Is it saying Skwawkbox is so powerful? More powerful than the MSM, including the guardian and mirror’ Toynbee & Kevin MuckWhyer? Then Jtwitt’s own postings should delivered a Remain result at the Ref, the EU elections and then a LibDem triumph especially as it had all the winners who agreed č JackTwit like CUKKA UMMUNA, Soubry, Berger Swinson, etc etc Smeeth Thinking of it… Did Berger ride victorious or BUMMED in North London because it is FULL of Anti Semites??? Did Jeremy win with 30,000+ votes because Islington is FULL of at least 30,000 Anti Semites??? Did Blair Campbell, and Johnson know of all the AS loving voters in ISLINGTON??? Ir did the decent people not believe the SLANDERS???
And Hackney, are over THIRTY THOUSAND people there willing to support Dianne Abbott and not Berger the seat jumper to North London? Are they all anti Semites??? And the Lib Dems where are they ??? How is the MSM not having wall to wall coverage of their EXCELLENT UMMUNA ENHANCED TRIUMPH, RADIANT PERSONALITY??? He is a brilliant prospect for leadership!!! No??? Ummuna! Have you won 30,000 votes??? in City and Westminster? Lots of your type there. Romped home??? Heard nothing of your win on the MSM. Are you busy apologising for something??? CHUKKA UNMUNA???
And what about all London: Are most of London FULL OF ANTI SEMITES BECAUSE THEY VOTED FOR JEREMY CORBYN’s Labour???
If Labour lost because of Jeremy and not The UNDEMOCRATIC REMAIN OBSESSION pushed by Starmer & Thornbury & co, then why is London RED and almost ALL the Traditional LEAVE VOTING HEARTLANDS now BLUE???
Every hour since the election every ghastly Nasty slimy arrogant out of touch self obsessed wicked evil FAKE LABOUR duplicitous hypocritical shameless MSM whores, have been on EVERY studio blaming Jeremy and not the REMAIN stance they pushed him into. Yet the only people i’v heard defending Jeremy is someone called Laura and KEN LIVINGSTONE with FACTS re the wicked allegations of AS, a tiny fraction of less than 1%. of a HALF A MILLION MEMBERSHIP.
THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. Pure Logic. And where’s Jeremy’s team??? Invisible or apologising. Yet i heard a presenter, on LBC saying he did not hear Jeremy give a proper apology for the loss of the LEAVE Heartlands. Funny how the MSM presenters need to hear Jeremy’s apologies several times but not from Tories re Grenfel Tory FLAMMABLE CLADDING, or people dropping dead in DWP queues after being declared for work. Or Tory apologies to a dad of a Loughborough student who lost his benefits when he developed Leukaemia. The young man died. The last thing he said to his family was be happy and help others in similar situations in which THEY MUST PROVE THEY ONLY HAVE SIX MONTHS TO LIVE, TO HAVE THEIR BENEFIT CASES ACCELERATED. In Tory Britain. The MSM must share responsibilities for DELIBERATELY enabling these terrible Tory obsenities.
WHERE ARE THE CALLS FOR TORIES TO APOLOGISE FOR THAT??? Where is the media LOOP repetition??? Hillsborough, Carillion, Pritty Patel Jacob Reece Mogg all the Anti semitic behaviour in the Tory party… where are the calls for each of those abominations??? especially Patel? Mogg and CHRIS GRAYLING??? And why do LP MPs wether for or against Jeremy FAIL TO speak out about those???
WHY have Jeremy’s Team and the NEC, FAILED to give proper support. No one person can do it all. Jeremy was failed. At the CORE of the organisation there are CRUCIAL failures.
Politics is down here on the ground. NOT up a fog shrouded mountain. After many wonders eg manna from heaven, the people thought Moses was gone for too long. So they MADE with their own hands the GOLDEN CALF. Shiny but USELESS – Like Blair who wrecked Labour and Ummuna who wrecked every attempt to show the world how effective he is. Moses A LEADER, returned, made them grind the calf to gold dust, AND DRINK IT‼️‼️‼️ Jeremy that must be uour guide! Drop the Dispiriting Zen approach. It is pathetic!!! Neither virtuous, consistent nor effective.
Human nature is what it is. We must make the best of that. Leaders MUST be VISIBLE and AUDIBLE and communicate with CONVICTION at ALL TIMES. Not bombastic but as one interested in the importance of what one is saying. Or what’s the point??? That can be learnt. Your enemies have those skills but nothing to new to offer. You do!!! It os irresponsible not to realise that. Not every one goes to rallies to hear speeches, Interviewers are only the interface to the IMPORTANT ELECTORATE. WE are the audience, however loathsome the MSM interviewer… and many of them have shown themselves willing to dig up stuff from decades ago about words and feelings but not people dropping dead now and being abused. Are they content with that? Two or three DO listen with out obnoxious pompous interruptions. Surely a good team would have selected those. WHY NOT? I agree with Johnson. Why go on Today Prog when it let us down so badly on Blair’s Iraq lies and NPs Expenses??? Why? To be interrupted on a state funded outfit? To have an answer cut short to go to sone tripe? EVEN when the future of our country is at stake, the BBC News programs dumb down to keep the 5% ignorant. They then regurgitate the received dross and much to their circle. IGNORE the Today Program.
Johnson DISMISSED the likes of Ken Clarke DESPITE MEDIA OUTCRY. He led correctly in that regard. The Tory Party is now “brought together”. He was not comprised by the ill founded idea of having declared wreckers onboard. Loath or laugh as you like, THAT IS CLARITY and focus where it mattered. That is leadership. Prioritise the country. You are the leader NOT STARMER THORNBERRY et al. Ig members of your team failed to insist on that, then they are not fit for purpose. If you failed to take that advice after THREE YEARS??? Then you must stay until someone suitable is selected. SOD THE MSM. The timetable is yours. Anyone who forces you now, clearly do not value our party.
NONE OF THEM MUST BE ALLOWED TO USE US THE 500000 for their own selfish ambition.
ALWAYS ever afraid of the MSM has been our flaw since the creature with no beliefs but itself, the inventor of WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION in 45 minutes GEORGE BUSH POODLE spittle of Thatcher. The money craving despot launder, The aspirant to making MORE money from a collaboration with Gadaffi to deal in “mosquito nets”.
The MSM can get no worse. They must be counteracted rigorously. Hard work but doable. Where was the team helping with that?!? GET A NEW TEAM‼️‼️‼️
The Queen wears vividly MONO coloured coats and hats when out and about. WHY? She learnt from MOSES, LEADERS MUST BE SEEN. Plus she prefers to keep peoples’ gold. Not have them grind and drink it. even though the soverign grant could extend to employing a “Lord or Lady of the Faecal Gold Extraction Chamber”. Why not? We have money to spare like paying every LOSING MP like CUKKA & BERGER over FIFTY THOUSAND £££ of ‘they’v kicked me out’ relocation expenses etc. It is all SUPER PROMPT & EFFICIENT. Ummuna and Berger and the soon to be Prime Minister J SWINSON leading a REVOKE GOVERNMENT, do not have to prove they “only have six months to live” to get VAST UNNECESSARY and UNDESERVED sums given to them. The now dead Leukaemia patient did. His dad said on Talkradio on the Matthew Wright Program, the week of the election that 3000 + people die before the money is paid. Do double check that figure. He gave some other shocking figures but i was too distressed and shocked to take notes. Talkradio should publicise that interview. Universal Credit or PIP at its usual TORY WORSE.
Signpost , some very good points in your post amongst the passion which any new leader and TEAM have to take on board , Blair did this extremely well , it was the only thing he did well mind you ,,, apart from war.
Without a shadow of doubt, Brexit is going to damage the UK. The majority of Labour members, and half the UK electorate recognised that truth. Yet Skwawkbox supported the minority of those on the left who had a theoretical dislike of the EU without having any studies to support their case that leaving would be a benefit.
The result of that pressure on Corbyn from the Lexiters was that in the end there was no major party which spoke up for the millions who wanted to remain.
The right wingers i.e. UKIP and the far right in the Tory Party were thus allowed to run rampant with their ‘we want Brexit’ mantra and because we did not challenge them sufficiently in Labour areas, we suffered.
Too many people, especially in the Skwawkbox fan club here are looking at the results an not the causes!
BS We know the cause right wing intransigence within the Labour party and Brexit and stupid people that only care about this 1 thing.
This now allows the Tory machine to sell the NHS and everything else they want and the Brexit is god idiots who voted for this are now responsible for all the destruction of the Tory party.
They voted for this and when it hits I hope they have the backbone to admit they caused the pain but like normally they will slink into the shadows and claim it wasn’t me like the Farmers and Fishermen are now doing as they work out how F’ed the will shortly be..
So stop with we don’t see and know the Dam problem it’s solving the problem and quite frankly I honestly feel it whould be best to finally split the party to get rid of the bad actors in the PLP and party machinery…
Jack T you consistently refuse to get the message,you and your version of the Labour party are yesterdays news and the Squawkbox have helped to point this out.. “The first signs of insanity is to continue to make the same mistakes when you know you are wrong.” .
Joseph, simple question; Do you think Brexit, of any complexion will benefit the UK?
Jack T We have bigger fish to fry and whatever happens with Johnson’s brexit we cannot influence and the agenda now is to stop the party from! Imploding by having a leadership election and putting the party in the hands of Mickey mouse moderates..personally I think we need to forget the argument and realise that we own the Labour party and we are not giving up without a battle against our government sponsered enemy within…..Have no doubt that the election campaign was rigged and in time the truth will come out……Democracy Now Or no. leadership election.!.What better time to democratize than now.
Oh FFS.
It’s a fair description. You may not identify as a centrist, but your wishes enabled them.
The facts are that the leave vote won the referendum. Many “centrists” like yourself have actively campaigned against democracy, often very impolitely.
And here we are. We’re going to leave, via the crappiest possible route. Our society is extremely fragmented (go look at comments at the Guardian or Mail), and there’s absolutely nothing up ahead to reunite us.
I blame people such as yourself. You made a hard job impossible. You may not feel responsible, but I’ll happily bet the few pennies I have that many other lexit voters feel exactly the same.
What boils my piss in all of this is at no point did any centrist remainer both to find out why people like me voted the way we did.
Who’s the stupid ones now?
Chris Williamson was our best chance of having a decent leader after Corbyn but not one of the cowards in the PLP from where our next Leader will emerge had the courage to openly support him.
John Trickett & Ian Lavery can pull their punches as good as Chris W could.
Neither are a patch on Chris Williamson and neither of them had the guts to support him.
i agree to both of them both tough enough and good socialists , but with Ians accent the MSM and the bastard Tories would have a field day i fear , its not right and shouldn’t be but seeing how much JC got vilified the they would go low and dirty as usual .
Perhaps Ian as deputy and John as Leader ?
But Ian’s accent is wonderful!!
Yes he was a powerful speaker as committed as Corbyn but perhaps more cutting? But he was effectively politically neutered by the Israelis just as Ken Livingstone had been.
Am I reading you correctly Jack T, based on the fact that Mr Williamson, like JC campaigned for a Remain Vote in 2016, and, once the result was known, and its actual composition, Mr Williamson, as the good democrat that he is, stated that the Brexit decision must be upheld – he has cited both on media, and privately reason why Labour lost on Thursday, and top of his list is Brexit and the intransigence of a majority of the PLP to accept not only democratic reforms, but actual democratic outcomes – he had more juicy stuff to say about the NEC, and the Trades Unions, which, I’m not at liberty to discuss, however, the man has balls, will change his mind when the facts necessitate and actually does defend his left-of-centre political peers through thick or thin, as a couple of others still on the NEC do – in a nutshell, maybe now you’ll understand why much of the PLP wanted him out, and cooked up false charges to ensure he was removed – the fact remains, in March JC already had a gun held to his head as far as Watson is concerned, with threats of a full split in the PLP and Party, of course, it was long planned by the Traitors that did not Leave with Chuka (quite astute of them in reality) that JC would perform poorly in any confrontation with a full-out Leave Tory Party if the Party moved towards the much vaunted People’s Vote, which, we are now aware, all were fully briefed on with regards the Labour Heartland’s, namely said policy would be a disaster- see Steve Howell for that fact, thus, and in order for our Rightists chums to regain control of the Party, any genuine socialist and friend of JC, but also anyone favourably received by the membership needed to be dealt with one way or another, particularly one who promised a revolution within the Party, namely its full democratisation – so, Williamson was Suspended and stopped from standing as a LP representative – job done, as in reality, we now only have about 15-20 genuine democratic socialists left in the Party, the rest being non-entities, or Centrists/Moderates, or, lets be blunt, fucking Red Tories.
I must say, I’m looking forward to Mr Milne’s eventual analysis of what went on to be published, and Chris too could fill a volume or two with all the dirty secrets he had knowledge of.
Suffice to say, I always thought Chris was best suited to the Deputy Leader position, but certainly would have no issues with him replacing JC when the time was right, with maybe Piddock as his Deputy.
Agh well, we can dream, but the fact remains, Corbyn was engineered out of the Party, that McDonnell and Abbot became so convinced as to essentially join this Palace coup is what really shocks.
Chris Rogers Abbott always had a question mark over her,Dont you remember the copy of the Harman fiasco when Abbott sent her child to a private school because her parliamentary wages paid for a school that her constituency members didnt have despite Diane supporting state education for the many .she ignored the traditional leading from the front when her child was involved.Hypocrisy like gongs knighthoods damages the Labour party and defeats the argument.for equality and she knows it.
So true Chris , so flipping true it makes me weep almost reading it .
Sometimes now I wish the party had split , it may have been the best option and what was left after the Red Tories had gone would then be free to truly represent our base voters . There wouldn’t have been an issue with Labour standing many new good PPC in their old constituencies many whom would come from within our union rank and file , ordinary working class people , not careerists .
JC was and still is imo deeply loyal to the Labour PArty to the point of his own destruction.
Lesson to be learned by the left , don’t fear a split with the Centrists , don’t ever let them threaten our hopefully new LW leadership as Twatson did with a full on split , call the bluff and let them go , infact take the fight to them as Johnson did with his wreckers and kick them out remove the whip.
look to the to the example of all those defecting to the Change/ libdem parties , EVERY SINGLE ONE LOST THEIR SEAT.
In fact those MPs outside of any party like Dominic Greeve and of course our own Chris Williamson lost their deposits .
The standce should be , threaten our Party and our leadership ,, then fuck off and split.
Its now that important in the next 5 yrs we get this done !
Christopher Rogers “he had more juicy stuff to say about the NEC, and the Trades Unions, which, I’m not at liberty to discuss,” I know, I campaigned long and hard for him and was one of his count agents.
However, unlike yourself he doesn’t blame membership of the EU for austerity in local communities. His decision to accept Leave was pragmatic.
Jack T,
let me say, i find your response to me is full of zero fact, please do yourself a favour, never accuse me of promoting a narrative that it was the EU that sponsored austerity in the UK, that was the fucking Tories and New Labour, so, maybe, just maybe, start reading other social media outlets I post on, on a regular basis, which will underscore this very fact fact.
What I do state, because I fucking understand it, and understand it because I’ve spent 15 years of my life cooperating with heterodox economists, economic historians and others who think outside the constraints of the neoliberal straightjacket, is that European Monetary Union, and the fiscal accords that go with this are a fucking economic disaster, that they promote perpetual austerity within Euro member states, and that ultimately they in no way, no way enhance the lives of a clear majority of EU citizens – these are economic facts that are quite simple to glean if you actually go and read them, such as income inequality, a decline in real wages since 1992, and an even bigger decline post EMU, namely the full adoption of the Euro.
And of course, there being linkages, if the EU largest states are in relative decline, or recession, that has a large impact on the UK’s finances as we do trade quite a bit with Europe.
Now sir, go spread your myths and pro-Brussels crap else where and remember, bastards like you who favoured a Second Referendum and the UK remaining part of the EU – the LP choice, have prevented me and my family living in my own country, namely Wales, and I’m prevented from living their because of the toxic immigration environment, and rules changes to spousal Visa’s that Ms May adopted – you see, I ain’t rich and my wife’s the wrong colour.
I had fucking skin in the game, a lot more fucking skin than you old bean!
Christopher Rogers, what a load of junk you have just spouted. Why the heck is it that you have spent the last few years saying we should leave the EU whilst spouting non stop about how badly off your local communities are? Are you now trying to say there is no link?
There are very few contributers in these columns who choose to resort to your scale of invective when challenged. It signals an arrogance which you have often shown when your academic credentials, which you are fond of presenting to us, are questioned. You need to have a lie down.
Jack T,
I have called you out as a Liar, for that’s exactly what you are. If you don’t like my language, tough, I’ve never liked your illiterate pro- Brussel’s stance. Further, not once have I ever, I mean fucking ever, associated Tory policies in the UK, with EU economic constraints on Euro member states – as stated, not only am I not that stupid, I’ll leave propaganda to propagandists, preferring facts over fiction, such as Operation Fear to scare the bejesus out of the UK electorate to remain within a neoliberal EU.
However, I will state this fact, one of the reason’s Gordon Brown pushed PFI to the limit as a means of re-building some of the UK’s infrastructure was to stay within the fiscal constraints of Brussels, which the UK had signed up too, obviously this was a brilliant idea s said infrastructure costs over a 30 year time line are some 200-400% more expensive than if built using State funding – talk about unintended consequences.
Now, persons are free to see where else I post, and will note, as I’ve noted continually, that Tory austerity in the UK had fuck all to do with Brussels, it was home grown by neoliberal economic illiterates – go have a chat with prof. Steve Keen on the subject matter, on Mr Hudson over in New York, both of whom will fill you in with facts, rather than politicised fiction.
Christopher Rogers, I notice that you have dodged my point as you always do. Tell me that you have NEVER associated the plight of your local communities with our membership of the UK?
christopher rogers, while you are dodging around trying to avoid answering my question please substantiate your libel that I am a liar.
Jack T,
Would you like to show me evidence that on this Board I’ve blamed the plight of our communities at the feet of Brussel’s, what I have stated, is that the condition we find ourselves in has happened whilst the UK is a member of the EU, and that the so many protections the EU allegedly affords us don’t amount to a can of beans, particularly when most protections were in place prior to the UK’s membership of the EEC.Further, given the UK has always been a net contributor to the EU, all EU handouts to UK communities amount to just a sticky plaster for the economic dislocation caused by 40 years of neoliberalism this nation has endured – to suggest that the EU, out of its own generosity is actually giving us aid is utter crap, its our own money paid into the EU coffers re-circulated back into the UK, that the EU has been better at trying to help blighted communities is an actual indictment against the Tories and New Labour, but again we are talking sticky plaster solutions, when radical surgery is necessary.
Still Jack T, please present the evidence, as whilst I detest any Institution that rams neoliberal economic prescriptions down our throats, not once have I blamed the EU for austerity in the UK, I do blame it for austerity across much of the EU, specifically members who operate the Single Currency.
We could of course discuss capital relocation John T, and obviously, given the free flow of capital, and with it investment within the EU, capital usually utilises lowest price points, particularly where wages are concerned – no doubt, in your mind this does not exist and British jobs are not lost because of it. However, as I’m against exploitation of workers where-ever they are stationed, I’ll stick with supporting the working class, be it British, French or Dutch.
Again, please present evidence of you accusation, as whilst I may have memory issues, they don’t prevent me from critical analysis and lambasting Institutions that ultimately make most peoples lives a misery, which the movement to full EMU certainly has.
cristopher rogers, you have waffled again by trying to answer my first question with a question.
What’s more you still haven’t substantiated your libel against me. I insist you do it or retract.
Chris is damaged goods Jack, and you know it. And of course the only reason you build him up is so that you can attack Jeremy and the LP for not ‘fighting back’ and ‘appeasing’ the right of the party etc. You’re so transparent it’s a joke!
Allan give us an example of were civil rights have been challenged and running away helped .We are now being targeted especially the Freedom of expression under the extremisim laws which will be targeted against Squawk box and the canary and many others .We will be targeted also.So give me one example of appeasment in NIreland,S Afrika,south America or even the black civil rights movement in the USA worked by running away or keeping stum..Whats wrong with fighting back.?And whilst we are on about loyalty,who are you to question loyalty.Have you ever done anything other than sow divission and nasty inuendo upon long time members of the Labour party and some like me that have served office.If its too hot in the kitchen,you know what to do ?..wave the white flag and give them a list of people like me..And good luck with tracking me down comrades out there watching.
Allan Howard. It’s your eagerness to continuously advocate hoisting up the white surrender flag to the Zionists and Chris Williamson’s opposite approach which galls you. It’s you who is ‘damaged goods’. You are not a Zionist by any chance are you?
Are going kidding Rob ” the press would have a feild day with is accent”The press and the BBC are irrelevant when it comes to choosing a leader any more than an accent which is for me a badge of honour,but not compulsory .
Joseph , yes it was a bit tongue in cheek ( dohhhh ) .
But I did say that ” it shouldn’t be so ” and was a opinion of how the utter bastds in the world of politics will use it as a weapon to beat him with .It just shows how vacuous and shallow our society has been dumbed down to become , that trivial things are regarded as important .
I would love Corbyn to stay as Leader but become far more assertive. I can’t see anyone coming within a mile of his popularity and integrity.
I won’t be leaving. Duty bound to keep those venal wolves at bay. I feel bereaved right now. But for all the vulnerable and all the voiceless, I’ll fight.
Absolutely, stand your ground, stay strong, keep heart
The right have just screwed the party and UK over royally.
Their Strategy looks like it was to lobby for a Second referendum, in the expectation that Labour would lose a GE, depose Jeremy Corbyn, take back control of “their” party then win the next election with the same centrist policies that the electorate have already rejected.
Trouble is this presumed a hung parliament in which the Tories had little power not the total wipe-out they actually engineered.
With this in mind and the fact they only have un-inspiring Tory-lite neo-liberal policies it is difficult to believe that thousands would join to support them.
So, the hard right (or “moderates” as they like to call themselves) infiltrators are on the way…
Just watched Doddie Weir on SPOTY
Puts things in some kind of perspective,
Life is for the living, whilst we draw breath then we are strong enough to fight the good fight
Tomorrow the work begins to secure JC’s legacy
Walking my grandbairns 5 month old staffie this morning,
I’m the only socialist in the village, auld couple stop for a fuss and a chat, I’m still wearing my vote Labour hat
I tell them all puppies are pure evil,
In fact I said I’m thinking about changing his name to Boris
Small victories !
You beaut ! 😉
To all left/Jeremy Corbyn supporters.
Please remember how the ‘moderates’ (hard right, let’s get it right) of the Labour Party behaved during the leadership contest in 2015. On social media we were suckered into being baited by their use of downright derogatory language used about us and when we retaliated/ fought back, we were the ones that paid the price – immediate expulsions. I know J.F is the GS now but please, please be careful. We need to keep every single one of us this time – DON’T GET BAITED
How right you are Foggy. I have been called an antisemite simply because I support Jeremy who supports the Palestinians.( Like Jeremy Corbyn I haven’t got an antisemitic bone in my body)
However if I were to retaliate and say my accusers are Islamophobes because they do not support the mostly Muslim Palestinians I expect complaints would be made.
I also suspect that sites like this are scrutinised for potential complaints material so I agree with you that everyone should be careful about the language they use.
Smartboy You are right,but the facts are a list of party members was copied and distributed from HQ a long time ago .Now for me its different because I am increasingly spending most of my final years in veitnam….Cambodia.A trek into the jungle of my part of the Mekong would be too much for the thought police But almost certainly a list of the most committed socialists and possible collaberators will be used against us using the extremist laws that are currently being used to weed out teachers etc not “On message “.with modern equality and diversity. Whilst still a international member of the Labour party I will do all I can to help the Labour socialist party.but do not be supprised if the noose is tightened….Times are changing,but not the change I hoped and yes 👍 prayed for.!And Thanks to the brave and pioneering reporting of the Squawk box,and hope you survive the Government Purge. Solidarity comrades.!
Reading all the comments about confusion over who to choose shows us all that we’re better off giving the Rose to Phillips et al and kick-starting our own party.
Momentum shows it’s possible, and a fresh start means all the rot is gone.
If you are Never vote Labour again I think you are on the wrong site. It’s hard to see what interest you can possibly have in the Party beyond kicking it. You need Mail online -although there are similar names there so you might need to change your moniker. I don’t understand why you refer to ‘our party’ when you will ‘never back it again. Never!
@Paul
I wanted to believe. I went without haircuts so Corbyn could win again. And then I watched the right and other slowly snipe and swipe at this decent, honourable man. I began to find myself powerless, and afraid of the machinery that runs Labour. People like McNicol…
So I left the party. Being on the left leaning side, I continued to follow Labour from the fringe (like most voters). Many terrible things happened, including Wilson and Williamson & TWatson.
After the previous election, 2017, where centrists lost us the election (and tried locking Corbyn out of HQ), I decided that the rot was too deep. Enough was enough. It was time to become like George Carlin and stop taking part in the charade.
As I said before, being left minded, I found myself here, because sadly, Labour were the only ones offering something. This led me (despite concerns over both Brexit and my local PPC) to vote labour last week.
An internet name means fuck all. Do I come across as a troll? Or worse still, a Mail reader?
That little bit more evidence that we’re monumentally divided. Cheers
It’s Must the name I think is silly – and sillier when you go on to say you DID vote Labour last week. How about “I was never going to vote Labour again until the other day when I changed my mind”?
LabourList are conducting a weekend poll to see who members would like to see as leader. Apart from the obvious names there were many, many more who I didn’t recorgnise and no idea who is left and right plus some who appear to be left may not be. I do hope Skwawkbox will guide us on who is a safe left vote when we have the leadership elevtion
Does anyone have a strong opinion about David Lammy standing? I’m not even sure that He’s eligible but seems a very clever and resilient bloke to me. Now, someone shoot me down in flames haha! Regards Cal
It was Brexit wot won it!
It wasn’t the win that many folk were looking for methinks!
Or ‘It was Jerusalem that won it’? Palestinians lost as did British freedom from foreign governments interfering openly and without censor in the election. Apparently it’s only bad when Russia might be doing it.
Not for me thank you, he’s tooooo London bubble, centre rightish ( not socialist) was part of the P.V pushers, part of the no confidence coupers in 2016 and I’m sure he didn’t vote against more of the benefit cuts (?) in 2015 when Harriet Harmen was caretaker leader. Anyone of the MP’s that did any of that is a non starter, for me.
Thanks for the info Foggy. I do watch parliament regularly but I’ve nought in my memory that stands out about him. I want someone who will support anything that helps people stuck in this blasted Austerity trap and especially funding for our SEN Children. Regards Cal
Lammy is a weathervane not a rock and he leans Right into the wind
Fair enough Tim. I’d no idea and was interested to get varied opinions like yours. Is that Right as in RW? Thank you for your reply. Regards Cal.
Yes
He’s a poor politician, part of problem, got conspiracy theory on deaths in Grenfell badly wrong,, not my cup of tea
Oh thanks Doug. I had no idea and wanted opinions from folk like yourself. Regards Cal
Really! I’ll have a little look at that. Bit of homework on Mr Lammy. I like to ask comrades for their opinions and information. Thank you so much. Regards Cal
Mr Lammy will forever be noted as the man who cost Children in Need a million with his remark “We don’t need any more white saviours” whether it is true that his remark actually did or not. The media will remember that and bandy it about as a weapon. Not viable.
Ah yes I’ve seen that in the media. Thank you Aidey another dot to add to my picture. Also if it’s true that He said it I can imagine the fallout from the msm. Regards from Cal
Nanycal Yes I have a strong opinion on Lammy,but its unprintable and I don’t believe fowl language adds anything to a debate .
That’s really honest of you Joseph. Thanks for being a gent about it. I know that sometimes it’s hard to bite your tongue (I’m learning that in my old agedness haha)! All the best Cal
David Lammy ought to be a candidate although I would not vote for him.
My opinion of him has grown over the years although I do think he gets some things wrong.
Thank you for your reply Tony. I’m genuinely having a look at prospective candidates for our Party. I’m storing all the info up. Best regards Cal
I will vote for Rebecca for Lesder and Richard for Deputy.
In protest I went for John Mcd for Leader ( yes I know ! ) and Angela R for Dep. I am a little concerned tho to what Labour list are doing with this data or why they feel it’s necessary to do this now before we all know a lot more on all the candidates . Their list was for everyone , some I have no idea of ?
Labour right List you mean Rob,and be very aware of that girls agenda.!
Well done you’ve just recommended a carreerist pro isreali government lobbyist for anything has a price mp.The treachery of double barrel Bailey against Corbyn would mean a return to !pre of the same old crew. I know you dont want that…
I was ready to tear up my membership card until I heard the backlash against Corbyn from the right of the party and echoed by the media . There is No WAY I could leave now until I at least know the new leader is in place. I think the party will always continue to have these internal battles.
good decision to stay 😉
i thought the general length of time you need to be a member before voting is about 6 months so how can they change that
The trope of Brexit being a ‘left’ idea is poison. It isn’t. It never was, and if Corbyn’s legacy is to be continued, the sooner the false and simplistic idea of a left/right split on Europe is booted into touch, the better. It plays into the hands of the right and alienates the majority of members.
RH don’t mention it.!
I might endorse Andy McDonald. Or Margaret Greenwood. John Trickett perhaps, or Ian Lavery.
But I can’t think of anyone else worth it, really. Don’t trust any of them to take it to the media darling that is de piffle, if I’m honest. De piffle will implode before most of the names I’ve heard bandied about could get one over on him.
Someone mentioned Lammy…Jesus H Corbett. That idiot complained about racism in the catholic church because of the white smoke used to confim the conclave’s decision to elect a new pope.
…And he’s a barrister? No, they didn’t even want him as Londinum mayoral candidate; as labour leader you may as well wrap up. Same goes for the likes of philips, mizz balls, nandy and the likes.
Reading a quick headline in my newsfeed from the torygraph, words to the effect “If Long-Bailey is made Labour head it will be the end of Labour”
*She’s the one to go for.*
I have always made of point of listening to what billionaires want and then I do exactly the polar opposite. It works.
Hard isn’t it Toffee and we don’t even know who’s throwing their hat in the ring yet, apart from rentagob.
Many of us know who’s who and what their history is ( that’s what drew us to Jeremy ) so if we stick to the red lines we had but with a few compromises/allowances I think we’ll end up with the correct choices then it’s game on !
Aidey Aichdee…..Ever heard of reverse psychology,Double barrell Bailey is the worst and most dangerous of the bunch of loosers mentioned Dont do a Tom Watson and vote for a pretend socialist.I could supply you with a list of,treacherous behaviour by Bailey but do your,own because I am fed up with trying to get people to use some common sense….Weve just lost an election and you want to vote for one of those that put the knife in corbyns back ….Isreali govt lobbyist and put the noose round Chris Williamson neck. on trumped up AS scam u
Jess Phillips has the right qualifications to become leader……..she is a woman; if not, why not EmilyThornberry, either way, you get what you deserve.