In the last few moments, EU officials have reported that a withdrawal deal has been agreed with the UK government. DUP resistance appeared to have evaporated, but the party has said that it is still not on board, so it seems Boris Johnson is gambling that enough Tory-independent and Labour MPs will back the new Withdrawal Bill at the weekend – or is planning an increased ‘bung’ to Arlene Foster’s party.
EU Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker tweeted:
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‘or is planning an increased ‘bung’ to Arlene Foster’s party.’
Odds-on, this. Plus peerages for the would-be toerag ‘dissenters’ and frankenfield & hoey (To make it look as though de piffle’s not crowding the lords with ‘actual’ toerag MP’s)
…Mann’s got his in the bag already, hasn’t he?.
I don’t think so Toffee. If the choice is brexit or the union they will choose the union no matter what. In many ways, voting for remain now gets the DUP off a lot of hooks. The majority in NI support it, the union is preserved with it, and they begin to look like a 29th century party (if not quite the 21st with everyone else yet)
The devil is always in the detail, so let’s see the particulars of the ‘deal’.
BUT it’s not a deal until the UK Parliament endorses it.
And you know what – I ALREADY know that Derek Skinner and other principled lexiters, some of whom are very eager to leave the EU, will obey the Corbyn-line, whatever it is to be.
Some Labour MPs will not. For some this is a golden opportunity for yet another coup attempt. They will use this as an opportunity to disobey the party. Is it nine or thirty odd Labour MPs? Let’s see.
But however many it is, disobeying the leader here is not acceptable. Not acceptable at all.
But however many it is, disobeying the leader here is not acceptable. Not acceptable at all.
It’s a free vote, innit?
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/10/17/corbyn-to-urge-blue-tick-outriders-to-stop-attacks-on-labour-leave-mps-promises-no-whip-withdrawal/
“It’s a free vote, innit? ”
No, I don’t think so. Corbyn has acknowledged that some MPs might vote for Johnson’s proposal out of respect their constituents’ referendum-voting preference, but I don’t think the party has said it will be a ‘free vote’, has it?
It would be cowardice of the first order if Labour allowed THIS to be free vote. We want an election, some want a good brexit, some want to remain and we all need to get the tories out of Downing Street.
Even before the details are admitted, it is HIGHLY unlikely that this proposal will be good for the working class or good for the country.
Will the orangebook swinsonites and the SNP etc. reject the deal, that’s the real issue. Labour has to, I hope. Our sensible brexit – and the GND and end-of-austerity depend on it
”Corbyn has acknowledged that some MPs might vote for Johnson’s proposal out of respect their constituents’ referendum-voting preference, but I don’t think the party has said it will be a ‘free vote’, has it?”
To all intents & purposes when Corbyn’s telling party members that MP’s shouldn’t be ‘bullied’ for voting the same way as their constituents, and without issuing a three line whip (Although there’s time for that, I guess), the portents’d point to it being a free vote.
The policy was to respect the referendum result. Whipping against will be another frustration of that guarantee….Even though Corbyn’s now said it’s a worse deal than may’s.
How much did they pay them this time??????
I have read Corbyn’s comments and that of “Labour Leave” the consensus is that Boris Johnsons deal is even worse than May’s dea. Brino, brexit in name only.. We become a vassal state with no future say in anything. May even lead to the EURO adoption.
Honestly that would make my year, worth it just to see Farage and his ilk choke on there froth.
Down side is moggy the erg and there fellow travelers make a fortune when the pound tanks.
Will C: “worth it just to see Farage and his ilk choke….”
I know what you mean but scum like Farage and Johnson ONLY think of their party’s electability. Brexit is secondary.
Farage needs this Johnson proposal to fail. If it fails, the UKIP/Brexit party gets the leavers’ votes.
If it succeeds the leavers don’t need Farage and his brexit extremists.
Labour can deal with either situation and should put the country and our people first.
https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1184738823420502016?s=08
Exactly as expected and what do we expect from 2right of centre one Varadakar and his pal Johnson.The Stormont Assembly thats been shut down for 2years will decide border issues.? And..It reminds me of the way partition was agreed all those years ago…civil war broke out and it was brother against brother.and the mistakes are repeated.This 7day deal by a bunch of right wing vandels will satisfy no one but a bunch of Torys and lib dems lackys.It will take more than Seven days to sort out the Tory mess of partition of Ireland.Wait for the Ulster unionist and the DUP,they are part of the problem not the solution and they can never vote for xmass without demolishing the reason for their very existence.More time is needed and a 3line wip for Labour rebels.Ireland and Britain deserve better than these global Capitilist.I just wish that this deal had not been so predictable by Varadakar and piffel Johnson
Not currently in agreement with you about a three line whip, Joseph, see the previous thread, but I certainly hear what you’re saying about Stormont and border issues and how the so called consent mechanism may replace the customs border, as the source of further conflict.
Paulo…..my thought are more concerned with repeating the mistakes of the past and the Tory game thats Ireland.What we have learned is that the deal thats been declared is little more than delusional and smacks of desperation.We have to have discipline within the party and not fall for this dogs dinner of a deal.I do not believe that this deal looks to the future in any way . To present such a deal will damage both countrys and the EU will do the usual and run away.
CORBYN’s reaction.
“This sell out deal won’t bring the country together and should be rejected. The best way to get Brexit sorted is to give the people the final say in a public vote.”
Which is exactly what was agreed at Conf under C14 motion with our Deal being put to a vote and not the Tory disaster deal that Johnsons got .
Lets hope and pressure those lilly livered MPs who would vote with the Tories , get the message ,support our Party , support our people , support your Leader and vote this down to ensure a GE and our solutions
Hear Hear rob.
rob 17/10/2019 at 1:20 pm
The only problem with your ‘explanation’ is that you are mistaken. The quote is from today and Corbyn was referring to forcing a CV on Boris’s so called deal. It has been announced on this lunchtime’s news that Labour will put forward an amendment to Boris’s bill to force a CV on Boris’s deal.
We can now see why during his interview with Sophy Ridge this weekend JC was wise enough to leave the door wide open for a policy change if circumstances change.
Circumstances have changed.
SteveH TBH I don’t care right now if its a CV PV or DVbloodyD so long as we as a Party reject Johnson’s deal , and get our GE under way . I ve been emailing those traitorous MPs who have indicated they might vote with the Tories , could we all do the same perhaps ?
rob, see my response to SteveH below,
‘A Dud Deal from de Feffel.
To save him from the ditch.
So back Labour Conference policy.
And 40 years of Neo-Liberalism is ditched!’
EXACTLY Bazza
Calm and controlled a true leader Jeremy Corbyn presents the Labour party position,and even the word sell out will appeal to the DUP,and the the people of the Republic who will soon realise that Varadakar is also willing to sacrifice Ireland on the alter of capitalism.The fact that jeremy will unite the working class in the loyalist community and the nationalists is a. brilliant move.And the British public again will be asked to pay for what is a again a botched Tory deal that’s gives nothing to any ordinary citizens….7day deal,are we really going to fall for it?..You litteraly couldn’t order and have your double glazing installed in 7 days Piffel Johnson the failed double glazed confidence scam man says hes got a deal?…??
Mind you at quickly skimming the changes most Tory scum will be happy with this deal as it throws the workers under a bus.
The level playing field stuff is now part of the ft deal talks, so basically kiss bye bye to the working time directive and all employment legislation plus all the environmental protections as a bonus.
Because if we Brexit trump has his arm stuffed so far up Johnson’s arse we are likely to sign a trade deal with the US so bad that the EU won’t be able to offer us anything in case they contract anything from the US via us.
That about sums it up : the bottom line of Brexit is getting shafted by the US. Apart from that – just follow the money ‘Twas always thus.
Oh sorry!! – Did I imply that a brave New Jerusalem was always a fiction? Sorry, Lexitories!
What we are witnessing is the end of the cheap and nasty party, so if we want to hasten their demise we stick to conference policy
Tories then have to go with this shit deal against Brexit party No Deal
Nah it appears the Labour lexiteers/troughers scared of Brexit loons are going to get Boris’s deal across the line by 2 votes given MP’s stated intentions.
If that happens kiss bye bye to any labour government for a couple of generations, that’s if the Brexit fourth reich even bother with elections.
It’s going to be a brave new world with welfare claimants being used to replace immigrants in the fields and wiping arses in care homes. With ATOS employment homes for those unlucky enough to lose there homes.
For those people lucky enough to have employment they will have to enjoy new 60hr working week, no payed holidays, no sick pay and pay cuts due to adverse conditions.
All because Swinson was in bed with Boris and to many Wolfe’s took there eye off the ball.
Boris Johnson Brexit deal hits late legal challenge as it breaks legislation from… Jacob Rees-Mogg
SteveH, here’s a survey that I’m sure will be of interest to you. Let others and yourself make of it what you will, but please note that it doesn’t doesn’t alter my own position on the importance of a credible Brexit alternative offer, via C14, in the event of an election.
(Guardian today)
Why, even in leave constituencies, most Labour support comes from remainers
On the World at One Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of the Commons, said he thought Labour MPs in seats that voted leave might want to back the PM’s Brexit deal. He said:
There are Labour MPs in seats that voted 60, 70% to leave and they will, of their own volition, regardless of anything I could say to them, be thinking about how do they best represent their own voters.
In fact new research from the British Election Study, which studies voting behaviour in considerable detail through an extensive database going back years, suggests that Rees-Mogg is wrong. Even in constituencies that voted leave in 2016 by large majorities, the people voting Labour are predominantly remain supporters, the research found.
Here is an extract from Ed Fieldhouse’s write-up for the British Election Study website. (I have highlighted some of the highlights in bold)
First, while 68% of Labour voters voted to remain in the EU in 2016, what about voters in those seats which voted to Leave the EU? Dividing countries in to leave and remain seats and subdividing by the 2017 winner, the BES data shows that in Labour seats where there was a leave majority, 60% of Labour voters voted to remain in 2016 compared to 76% in remain seats. In other words while unsurprisingly there were more Labour leave voters in leave seats, on average there was still a substantial remain majority. Even in those with a leave vote of greater than 60%, a clear majority (57%) of Labour voters voted remain in 2016.
Of course, Labour is not looking to win only the votes of those who supported them in 2017, and some people have changed their Brexit preferences since 2016. Rather than focus on 2017 vote and 2016 EU referendum vote we can use the BES to look at the Brexit preferences of all potential Labour voters in May 2019. We defined respondents who scored Labour on a like-dislike scale at least 5 on a 0-10 scale as potential supporters, making up 46% of all respondents that said they would vote and had decided how to vote.
Overall 70% of these potential Labour voters said they would vote to remain in the EU, with only 21% preferring to leave, with the rest saying they ‘don’t know’ or ‘would not vote’ in another referendum. In leave constituencies these figures change only slightly to 65% and 25% respectively. When we narrow this down to Labour seats we see little evidence to suggest that Labour MPs in leave constituencies who are concerned about their re-election prospects need worry more about alienating leave voters than remain voters. In Labour held sets with a leave majority the figures are almost identical: 64% remain and 25% leave. Even in strong leave Labour seats (where leave vote exceeded 60%) the number of potential Labour voters who would vote remain (62%) is more than twice the number who would vote Leave (26%).
Fieldhouse says the view expressed by Rees-Mogg (also shared by some Labour MPs, who worry that a remain stance will cost them votes in leave areas) is what social scientists call “an ecological fallacy”. Fieldhouse explains: “Just because Labour voters disproportionately live in leave areas doesn’t mean that they are more likely to be Leave voters themselves.”
Thanks pauloThis simply confirms what a few of us have been saying on here for the last 3 years.
ps If you want to make text bold or italics you will need to use html commands,
html what? (!)
Have a look at this web-page and all will be explained (hopefully). You may find that not all the commands work because some websites understandably restrict their use so that the comments section doesn’t become full of flashing coloured text.
https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_formatting.asp
Anyone wanting to read the report that paulo is reffering to can find it here.
https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-findings/labours-electoral-dilemma/#.XaoUD2Yo9xA