The mainly-centrist attempt to force Labour into a full-remain position has been heavily defeated in a vote by conference delegates. The margin was large enough on show of hands to make a card vote unnecessary.
Sanity is restored and Labour can fight the general election without its hands tied behind it’s back.
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Snowflakes need to take the vote on the chin and get behind JC and party, you will have your 2nd referendum,
Lesson from is, theres a time and a place for everything
Today you were put in your place
It’s not about being a snowflake you racist far right supporting wingnut it’s about being able to comprehend the implications of Brexit and not believing the ends justify the means.
Especially as none of you wingnuts can explain how we get from our current position to the wolfie utopia you dream of without fucking of the country and the people for generations.
Now of you Trott or you could explain how we get to you red utopia.
Temper..temper…Your gravy train ending, is it?
That’s easy for you to say,
Now go fuck yourself
Oh Jeremy Corbyn
If you don’t want a “red Utopia” and are content to let things play out, from our current position , we can assume that you are eager to be part of the disintegration into barbarism.
In the meantime any socialists, with their aspirations to end poverty and inequality, will be denounced as ‘racist wingnuts.’
J
Or anti semites
Hows that going for the Cockwombles
My comment aimed at WillC not Doug. Posts don’t make that clear
Will C , it’s patently clear how we get into power and if you can’t see that then perhaps another party may be for you .
By allowing Democracy to operate with the stance on Brexit that Corbyn has skilfully achieved , we can now when out canvassing on the doorstep have conversations with both Remain and Leave , unlike Tories or the Libdems with their dictatorial positions , no voice , no say , no choice !
Corbyn has not skilfully done anything he’s still firmly wedged on his fence post watching the can sale down the road.
We are effectively going to go into a GE with no brexit position, other than saying vote us in we will sort brexit out honest but we cannot tell you our cunning plan.
That basicly sounds like the tory position for the last 3 years.
However we have the added bonus of corbyn saying he can negotiate a better brexit deal than remaining.
Hmmm that sounds awfully familiar.
Marty
All my comments aimed at Will C
The hatred by the right goes back to the SDP who kept Thatcher in power for 10 years, we know they would rather see a far right English Nationalist brexit/ukip/BNP party win next GE
FFS
And you worry about MY sanity?
Looks like you’ve broken your own irony meter, squire.
😀
Comment was for the benefit of the angry Will C.
Oh, looks like we have another bully trying to shut people up they don’t agree with with insults. I thought inciting a pointless and unpleasant trading insult culture was behind most commentators on Skwawkbox then a new one shows up.
Yes, nice to see the unconditional pro EU fanatics upset by a tactical failure.
But Labour’s now agreed Corbynite ‘position’ on Brexit is still madness on stilts electorally. On the doorstep, the Labour canvasser will receive just the same disbelieving derision as the ghastly backstabber, Emily Thornberry, got on Question Time a couple of week’s ago – especially because most people , including in our Leave-voting heartlands, know full well that not only key Shadow Cabinet figures like Thornberry, Starmer, Abbott, and McDonnell, will campaign and vote for REMAIN come what may, but that ‘Special BREXIT Conference’ after a Labour government might be elected (not likely now) would most likely vote against our own deal – for Labour to back REMAIN in a Second Referendum !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOIK3h7SODc
We are still fucked electorally – despite the glee of our loyal Corbynist posters here.
More chance for a socialist revival and a democratic socialist Labour government well done ✔
I agree with the delegate who was demanding that there should be a card vote on such an important issue.
You were defeated. Live with it! Move on!
Why SteveH , I have just checked with my mates who are delegates who were in the hall and they say it was very clear that Corbyn had won that vote and the motion was defeated .
rob 23/09/2019 at 6:30 pm
Why not?
Others who were in the hall have reported the opposite to your sources.
OK I have tried to find a video of the vote , this appears to be the only one so far , it’s not great but if you freeze it just before the change of vote then it looks to me that the “against” vote has it on hands .
Its academic now as the vote has been passed
boo hoo hoo
AWL aint hahahappy
Moosy 23/09/2019 at 6:48 pm
Why are you crying, do you need some support?
The avoidance of a card vote speaks volumes about the desperation behind fleeing from the Remain option, rather than following through on the ‘member led’ narrative. Same old, same old.
I’d go with a focus on a referendum, but only a poll of members now has validity to make a decision given the questionable result of the vote.
The situation is a shambles. People are either laughing or raising their eyes heavenward at the failure to get a grip and form acoherent anti-Tory policy- and it’s no good blaming the media on this one.
Apalling lack of organisational skill.
Oh, so they were scared of a 2nd ref even though the first ref result hasn’t even been implemented; now they’re ‘scared of a card vote’ because they won a show of hands.
F complete and utter FS just deal with it you childish whinging two-hat.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8F1mRRZnzow/W2cE9JT_yYI/AAAAAAAAKSY/Sqzjn6qJ5RkV9ii-4mqiuPeZZNhrmmsvgCLcBGAs/s1600/spoilt%2Bbastard.jpg
Still struggling with coherence, language and logical thought., Toffee?
(Hands rattle back).
Now – Have a look at the shit-show that was the conclusion to that vote (and I wasn’t in disagreement with the outcome), following the shit-show of the Fred Karno effort at ditching Watson. We’d all be sober after a brewery piss-up in that style.
‘Here, media – have a bit more material to chew on.’
(Hands rattle back).
Aw thanks rh.
I wasn’t gonna gloat, but now you’ve given me me rattle back…
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/everton-fc-and-manchester-city-fc-supporters-waving-their-news-photo/3402186
You only have a card vote when the show of hands is inconclusive/very close. Calling for a card vote when the will of conference is clear is the sign of a sore loser.
Smartboy 23/09/2019 at 8:13 pm
“You only have a card vote when the show of hands is inconclusive/very close. Calling for a card vote when the will of conference is clear is the sign of a sore loser.”
I know full well what is in the rules but the rules aren’t hard and fast are they. Yesterday’s abandonment of ‘show of hands’ voting for multiple card votes amply illustrates this.
I am quite content to stick with my original opinion that on such important and contentious decisions we should have a card vote. It removes any doubt and makes it easier for all sides to accept the decision.
Better still would be for conference to rent a conference voting system so that the counting of all votes would be transparent, accurate and quick.
I have quoted the rules in relation to voting.Yesterdays card votes related to constitutional change which require a two thirds majority for which a card vote is required.All other matters are on a show of hands unless as I say the show of hands is inconclusive. Proper voting procedures were followed and the right conclusion , in my opinion, reached.
Smartboy 23/09/2019 at 10:44 pm
I was referring to the evening session when they were dealing with ‘reference back’ votes. Watch it yourself and you’ll see that I have given an accurate account.
I have no idea why reference backs went to a card vote.It is my understanding that they should have been voted on by the floor
But… don’t expect the neo-liberals to give up. They will use every (dirty) trick in the book to restore their gravy train!
I know – those Lexiteer adopters of neoliberal policy are just like mosquitos.
Difficult issue but Corbyn makes the best sense on this one.
Yes Tony ,nothing is ideal with regard to Brexit,but the Corbyn position is the best for party and country I think.I would have preferred remain and reform(a difficult path)but at least we will not have the right wing nut jobs wet dream,no deal at all.
Don’t expect the neo-liberals within the party to give up! They will use every (dirty) trick in the book to keep their gravy train!
Excellent result.
The TwatsonsCoylesStarmersOwenSmithsBliarsMandeksonsCambelsetcetcetv NEVER give up. Neither must we. We cannot progress with the deadweight of committed apologists, who oddly spring to action ONLY to ridicule & minimise and shut out wise insightful voices like yours, & marty and Jiseph. You help maintain hope 4 change to support the many, rather than the cosy metropolitan obsessions of the few, who are content for things to remain just as they are… or worse yet, go further in the direction of privitised profits for 1% and socialise all the losses from their incompetence, socially destructive policies, and asset strip and run!!!
VOTE JEREMY CORBYN LABOUR!
TAKE BACK CONTROL DIVERSE WORKING PEOPLE FROM TORY AND LIB DEM NEO-LIBERALISM!
JC4PM!
“Labour’s coming home, it’s coming.
Labour’s coming home it’s coming.
Jeremy on our shirt!”
Halelujah! Corbyn wins – that’s why he’s our twice elected leader.
C13 joins the Chicken Coup as a Hodge and Watson failure.
Labour CAN be the next government after GE19. It’s up to us.
Until the next coup. Let’s see how the media and the rw of the party have a hissy fit over this. Remember Watson its about unity you said.
You are the RW of the party you went right past far left out the other side and started supporting the position of Farage,BJ, Tommy Robinson and Moggy.
With respect Will C you need a kick up the arse from the oldest of the billy goats gruff. A subscription to the Morning Star is what I recommend – that plus coming back to live on the same planet as most of the rest of us.
Honestly I have spent a lot of time since finding this site trying to figure out what planet the lexiteers are on.
The morning star, jesus this is what I mean you ask what planet I’m on then recommend I read a paper with a circulation less than fits in the local conference teams ground.
I know you may be joking but theres plenty on these boards who would not be.
Will C sounds like you’re a tabloid reader. I don’t read the MS but even I can know it is the ONLY daily that doesn’t constantly slag of JC, the Lab Party, the idea of a mixed economy or social democracy. and has long recognised the role of the EU as a neo-liberal boot boy!
Oh, I am relieved. I don’t expect Watson and his ilk to shut up but I do expect Chessum, Lansman, AEIP and people who think they’re left-wing to pipe down for the time being – and maybe certain members of the shadow cabinet could be more circumspect, or reconsider their position. Bring on the election.
Labrebisglloise I agree with you but would go further – any member of the shadow cabinet who can’t /won’t agree with Labour party policy as defined by the Conference decision should resign his/her shadow cabinet position right away. Anyone who doesn’t resign but continues to undermine the party position by rabbiting on about ours being the “remain party” should be sacked from the front bench the first time they do so.
I think you make a good and valid point in normal times but Watson has already been allowed to set a dangerous president that no deputy needs to support the leader or agreed party line. If a Deputy doesn’t have to why should any member of shadow cabinet or PLP or for that matter, member?
Done it again! I meant precedent not president.
Can’t wait for TWatsons appearance tomorrow in the Hall , I understand the milkshake sales have hit a record high and they are having to open a dozen more stalls to cope with demand .
Now all after me in the Key of C minor OHHHHH Jeremy CORBYN , don’t let the TWatson speak .
Watson will not give a shit now as he has won, this conference at best keeps us as fence sitters or at worst confirms us as another brexit party.
Either of which is only going to damage our slim election tion chances.
”Watson will not give a shit now”
In what way?
”as he has won,”
Who has won?
I know full well that Twason don’t give a shit , all he has “won “is a more determined membership to get shut of him one way or another , and that will come soon enough you can bet on it
Urgh! Oh, Lordy!
Seeing the words ‘TWatson’ and ‘Milkshake’ in the same sentence brought on thoughts of watson’s appearance tomorrow going something like this…
https://media3.giphy.com/media/x1emzcXOZ9eUM/source.gif
Throwing a milk shake at this man would be a waste of a perfectly good drink and is exactly what he would like. It would get him some publicity and he could claim the we dogs /scum/trots/ entryists etc had intimidated and assaulted him. Better, far better to respond to his appearance with silence or perhaps just very mild polite applause- to show him that while we find his repetitious rants boring and on occasion offensive we are prepared to be polite out of respect for the office he holds. This might cause him to think about how unfitting his behaviour has been and maybe encourage him to show some respect for the office he holds too.
“The mainly-centrist attempt” Maybe you should rephrase that… Because, surely, choosing neutrality and actively working for a compromise satisfactory to the majority is what being a “centrist” is all about.
Of course, we knew for a long time that self proclaimed centrists were anything but.
Yeah but none of the lexiteers support neutrality it’s just away to hinder remain and twist the party to lexit.
Look Will C I don’t get your beef here , the democratically elected delegates that represent the whole membership have voted to back Corbyn ( who just happens to be the leader BTW ) and give every voter in the UK a choice regarding Brexit.
Right now NOBODY has a choice it’s whatever Johnson or Cummings says it will be , and if its Libdums then its still NO choice you remain .. period .
What the have you got against democracy in action.
Will, I am a remainer.
I believe your approach will deliver a hard Brexit.
I believe Corbyn’s approach has the best propsect of delivering a remain vote in a new referendum, and of doing so in a way that enough leave voters will tolerate for the issue to be put to bed for a generation.
Wtih either the Tories or the Lib Dems, the toxicity will continue indefinitely.
As a remainer I support Corbyn’s position 100%. So get it out of your thick head that just because the majority of members want to remain, they must oppose Corbyn’s strategy.
I understand centrists in LP and modern western political context to be neoliberals to their core and most are also British/western exceptionalists aka ‘do what we say or else’ in foreign policy. They claimed first the name liberal then centrist, they are neither. Nothing is what it seems these days.
I recommend this discussion about neoliberalism with Chris Hedges.
Here’s the Hedges link I neglected to post in my above comment.
It seems like the only morally defensible position to me… so I’m glad it won.
Skwarkbox is entirely wrong. The most important development today is that Conference now supports a second referendum, a victory for the Labour Right not for the Labour Left.
Oh f.off Danny, friend of the Bankers and other Wankers (including Kinnock). Brexit isn’t a left/right issue within the Labour Party.
Did I just see Duncan Shipley Dalton voicing his disgust on ch4 news just now?
‘Third place behind the lib dims’ he said (IF it WAS him – certainly looked like him).
No idea who it was but DSD has always been a staunch remainer as far as my knowledge of him goes.
JC4PM!
Snowflakes
Either you believe in democracy or your hatred for JC is a game changer,
Either get behind party and manifesto or leave
THE REVOKE PARTYS NEEDS YOU
Having watched most of the debate including Thornberry’s average speech and Starmer’s even more appalling wooden speech. They still don’t get the point about democracy. Labour campaigning on a Remain ticket in the next election won’t give us the result of a Labour government it will enrage those who voted leave and some remain voters who understand the politics behind the way people voted leave in 2016. It boxes the leadership into remain without negotiating a deal and this is what the remain zealots wish for. They talk about remain and reform (which is code for remain) because we know that reform will not happen in the EU, they’re quite happy the way they are thank you.
No! This was a blatant attempt to clip Jeremy’s wings and the delegates saw the motion in that context.
I must admit that the more I see Starmer publicly speaking the more I am unimpressed with him. Wooden, can’t string sentences together, can’t motivate a crowd. He may have a great legal brain but I do wonder at his ability as an advocate.
Thornberry was better but you’d hope so. I think maybe it’s time for a reshuffle and Thornberry put elsewhere? She has the ability but has been disappointing lately.
Composite 13 lost and they threw their collective toys out the pram at conference not helped by the Chair who gave the wrong result. I expect that a lot of UNISON members are thinking about leaving right now. UNISON have misjudged the mood of conference and must now lick their wounds.
A great victory for Jeremy and the Labour Heartlands who can once again vote for Labour.
“Thornberry was better but you’d hope so. I think maybe it’s time for a reshuffle and Thornberry put elsewhere? She has the ability but has been disappointing lately.”
For me much longer than lately but I wholeheartedly agree she needs to be moved from her current post.
“the politics behind the way people voted leave in 2016.”
That’s quite simple : it was a massive RW Tory propaganda campaign fronted by the usual suspects that swung it.
RH 24/09/2019 at 12:04 am ·
That’s quite simple : it was a massive RW Tory propaganda campaign fronted by the usual suspects that swung it.
BUT HANG ON….WHAT’S THIS FROM JUST A FEW HOURS EARLIER?
RH 23/09/2019 at 7:10 pm
Oh f.off Danny, friend of the Bankers and other Wankers (including Kinnock). Brexit isn’t a left/right issue within the Labour Party.
FIVE HOURS is all’s it took from it ‘Not being a left/right issue’
to a ‘RW tory propaganda campaign’.
Labour or Toerag is somehow not L or R.
Weirdo.
Oh Toffee – stop falling over your feet.
We know that the Leave campaign was entirely a project of the Money establishment linked with extreme right interests. The real ideology is of the far right, and those that undermine the Party from that perspective are friends of the right.
That doesn’t mean that all who still believe this stuff are necessarily of the ‘right’, even if they unwittingly support their hegemony. Similarly, those who support ‘Remain’ simply don’t swallow the extreme right propaganda – it doesn;’t say anything about where they are on the wider left/right spectrum.
I think maybe it’s time for a reshuffle and Thornberry put elsewhere?
Out to pasture, perhaps? I guarantee if thornberry’s not moved to another of the othe 2 major shadow positions or deputy leader she’ll become ‘a woman scorned’.
So far up herself, she actually thinks her current position’s below her. Une careerst l’extreme.
Well she could always challenge Corbyn for the leadership role, challenging Watson might be as you suggest beneath her but I suspect her sights are set somewhere in the lucrative and cushy EU bureaucracy.
”I suspect her sights are set somewhere in the lucrative and cushy EU bureaucracy.”
A shrewd assessment. One I’ll go along with.
Can’t she be reshuffled to the LibDims?
My MP Preet Kaur Gill was on Twitter supporting Remain. I do believe she’s got this wrong. Edgbaston is constituency that is split 50/50 in the referendum. I hope she now changes after the conference motion 13 was defeated.
https://twitter.com/preetkgillmp/status/1176171851409690624?s=21
I’ve got no particular problem with individual MPs personally supporting remain, so long as they are content to get behind the strategy of renegotiate then further referendum.
We shall see. I hope that once the conference is over CLP’s will campaign on the conference motion and not try to go their own way on this, no matter if you’re leave or remain we need to be united on this and MP’s need to ensure they play their part.
*Nothing* reported that I’ve see on the MSM re. the Waterstone’s book launch cancellation, although the ‘Jewish News’ did report it quite neutrally, with an anodyne explanation from the firm.
I haven’t followed this closely but it appears a LP and Co-OP party councillor was involved in pressuring Waterstones (as the local council owns the building). His name is Leo Gibbons. Here he is stating his intent and attacking Prof. Piers Robinson.
https://twitter.com/Layo_GP/status/1175809540962639872
LP really has to get on top of its councillors and execs in positions of power taking such a stance, shutting down legitimate debate and abusing academics in this way.
Another reason why I am waiting to see what LP becomes. A load of closed minded, ideological, hysterical jobs worths running around acting like this gives me shudders for the future. The witch hunt seems to have unleashed those in LP who want to shut down free speech.
The event did go ahead and was packed thanks to Rialto Theatre.
Canary also did a good report stating Waterstones denied threats and harassment were the reason they cancelled.
A reminder. The book can be purchased here.
https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745340661/bad-news-for-labour/
The reality outside the confines of the conference hall is that there is little to be gained from continuing to straddle both sides of the Brexit fence.
The country is more polarized than ever before around Brexit.
For half the country, a second referendum and neutral position on leave vs remain is a betrayal of the referendum result. They’ve already buggered off to the Brexit party.
For the other half, a second referendum and neutral position on leave vs remain doesn’t go far enough, and they are buggering off to the Lib Dems in their droves.
Unfortunately Labour appear to have moved away from the ‘Wilson option’ of neutrality and allowing all MPs choose which option to campaign for to one of ‘we haven’t made our mind up yet’.