Shadow Cabinet’s ‘summary exclusion’ announcement in practice
Labour’s Shadow Cabinet has issued a statement about a change to Labour’s processes to include what it termed ‘summary exclusion’ in cases of ‘prima facie’ antisemitism by a Labour member:
The Shadow Cabinet is committed to defeating antisemitism and all forms of discrimination, including through greater education in our movement.
We commend the General Secretary and party staff on improving the complaints and disciplinary processes within the party.
As part of tackling antisemitism, the shadow cabinet has today supported the proposal for summary exclusion outlined by the Labour leader, which he will put to the National Executive Committee tomorrow.
The shadow cabinet also supports the proposal to introduce independent oversight of our processes, and will continue to seek to engage with Jewish community organisations to build confidence.
In terms of justice and due process, however, there was no detail in the statement and the possibility of ‘summary’ action will be a concern to members on both counts.
However, the detail available – provided by Formby to MPs today, to a standing ovation from the gathered ‘PLP’ – suggests that these fears can be allayed.
How it will work
Labour MPs have told the SKWAWKBOX that the proposals that will be put to tomorrow’s meeting of the party’s National Executive Committee (NEC) mean that high-profile or prima facie extreme cases would be accelerated to a panel consisting of NEC members plus the general secretary. This panel would be able to ‘auto-exclude’ (expel), with any excluded having a right of appeal.
The key points of detail provided to MPs today include:
- an independent barrister expert in discrimination law will advise the panel
- members affected will have a full right of appeal to the National Constitutional Committee (NCC), Labour’s ultimate disciplinary committee
- the panel will only be activated for very clear cases
Crucially, if the NEC approves the proposals in principle tomorrow, the party will undertake a wide consultation before finalising rule change, including a detailed legal consultation to make sure the process will be legally robust, before a final version will go to the NEC for a decision.
The final process is intended to be a clear, legally-safe mechanism guided by genuinely independent legal experts with special expertise in relevant law, protecting both members and the party while dealing with complaints in the optimal timeframe.
SKWAWKBOX view:
As with any rule-change, the devil will be in the detail and can only be assessed once the final version is written and approved, but the initial bones of the process appear to be sound and well thought-out – as the standing ovation Formby received from a wide range of MPs attests.
The SKWAWKBOX needs your support. This blog is provided free of charge but depends on the generosity of its readers to be viable. If you can afford to, please click here to arrange a one-off or modest monthly donation via PayPal or here for a monthly donation via GoCardless. Thanks for your solidarity so this blog can keep bringing you information the Establishment would prefer you not to know about.
If you wish to reblog this post for non-commercial use, you are welcome to do so – see here for more.
A standing ovation from the PLP is the sort of endorsement that many of us will see in the negative
Given the make up of the NEC, useless Trade Union representatives, self serving right wing MPs and other, mostly unellected nobodies, the membership would be right to be sceptical. They could be on any list for any misdemeanour, no matter how slight, misintentioned or deliberately misconstrued.
This will just make a bad situation for Corbyn supporters a whole lot worse. Happy days.
By all means carrying on putting lipstick on the pig Steve but appeasement never works and, as David Morgan has already hinted, a standing ovation from the PLP is like a Judas kiss.
… especially when the lipstick is incompetently applied to the pig’s arse.
‘…. but appeasement never works….’
Nor does ‘fighting back’, or didn’t you notice what happened when the LP criticised the Panorama program!
Or what happened when Chris Williamson was reinstated.
Or what WOULD have happened if Jackie Walker HAD’NT been expelled.
There are many ways of ‘fighting back’..one if which will – I’m sure – be employed, to quell the continuing onslaught aimed at removing the Labour Leader chosen by so many of us. We didn’t choose a fool, but a wise man.. who knows when to consider and when to act.
“In terms of justice and due process, however, there was no detail in the statement and the possibility of ‘summary’ action will be a concern to members on both counts.”
Spot on, Skwawkbox. And before the Chakrabarti report has been implemented, the fudge factory is in full production. We’ve seen enough of crap process and lack of justice already courtesy of the NEC.
Headlines :
“Corbyn and shadow cabinet seen on their knees confessing and surrendering to Toriesa and their MSM as the Israel lobby dictates terms.”
Tom will be pleased with Jeremy letting him lead the Party.
This is not my understanding of what Tom Watson wanted – IFrom what I read I took it that he wanted automatic expulsion for anyone deemed to have done anything antisemetic
This proposal involves a lot more including the right of appeal and external legal input. I don’t see this as the leadership being on its knees or letting Tom lead the party. I think it is the right thing to do and will be very a very effective weapon in our fight against antisemetism.
Smartboy – your faith is touching.
… and, given the history of this, based on nothing but desperately vain hope.
Have a look at the list of good (often Jewish) soldiers who have been worked over by the NCC’s broken systems … and then consider whether an even more flagrantly flawed process is likely to address the flaws of summary justice.
Think Chris Williamson. Think Jackie Walker. Think Marc Wadsworth. Think Tony Greenstein. Think Asa Winstanley.
… and this is going to offer redress to the falsely accused????
see my post below
You know the saying about ‘Give them enough rope..’?
As long as an accused person gets the chance to offer a defence and has a fair hearing and the right of appeal I would be in favour of the proposal.
I don’t think there is a right of appeal. And a fair hearing? With the media pre-trying cases everywhere. I’m not optimistic….
No- according to the article there is a right of appeal – there must be has to be in any such process – even a serial killer has the right of appeal.
I am not overly concerned about trial by media. I have every confidence that Jennie Formby will not allow herself to be bullied by the MSM into making an unjust decision.
I am pleased with these developments and am sure that we will be able to iron out any areas of concern that members may have during the consultation process.
“I am not overly concerned about trial by media”
Nor am I. It’s just the current weather – and rebuttal is the raincoat.
But that’s the point – it isn’t’t the known quantity of the media – it’s the f.ing incompetent stupidity of the Party hierarchy (and that’s before you get to the slime).
If these silly b.’s reckon this patent moral failure is the route to defeating Johnson in a snap election, spare us from any more brilliant strategic thinking.
Pleased to hear there will be a right of appeal, but still worried about trial by media. Once something gets leaked about somebody interesting – where there could be a newspaper story – their fate appears to be sealed…. at least that’s what seems to have been happening over the last few years.
Smartboy, I had right of appeal. The party denied me the source of the complaint against me so that I could contest it and defend myself.
I have two Information Commissioners judgements against the party, instructing them to let me see the evidence. They will not respond, even to my solicitors letters requesting that they give me what I am entitled to in law.
A fair hearing? Without the basis of the complaint, so that I could respond to it?
Change the charges, days before the kangaroo court. Then deny my request for a postponement to the trial while the party let me have my full, unredacted Subject Access Request.
Torquemada would recognise and approve of the rule book the party have adopted. It ensures members once accused are guilty and only the process needs to be observed.
I’m not sure what planet you are on, but it’s not the same one as I am on. This will put the Blairites who make false, unsubstantiated and malicious charges against Corbyn supporters fully in charge. The party, IMHO is fooked if it goes down this rout.
Even leaving aside your personal experience, your post highlights everything that makes even *existing* NCC procedures a kangaroo court.
Kangaroo courts represent the core of what Labour *should* oppose – without reservation. They are the symbol of the corruption of liberty and justice.
.. and let’s not forget that the underlying issue of the present debacle – the Palestinian cause – is about injustice and lack of liberty writ massively large.
There should be no ambiguity.
I feel hurt and confused by this. I have enormous respect for the current leadership, but, how many ordinary members have already been thrown under a bus? And now it appears we are to pay for and commission the very bus drivers who will have comrades thrown under their wheels.
I agree. Whatever checks and balances the leadership claim to put in place to prevent precipitate and arbitrary explusion, I remain unconvinced.
The ‘antisemitism’ panic is basically without foundaton. Corbyn himself has stated that only 0.06% of the membership has had charges of antisemitism levelled against them, and that the number actually guilty of it will be lower than this. To be sure, where genuine antisemitism (or other racism) appears, the perpetrators should be given very short shrift indeed, and thrown out of the Labour Party neck and crop. However, what has been established beyond doubt is that the present panic is not truly about hatred of Jews as Jews. It is about protecting the state of Israel and its crimes against Palestinians, facilitating a witch-hunt of socialists and anti-Zionists, (a disturbing number of the accused are themselves Jewish), and ultimately seeking to destroy the Leader and his socialist project for government
I see a real crisis – that of the Tories hopelessly ensnared in a Brexit trap of their own making – one which will end with, in all probability, Boris Johnson as PM, leading us blindly down the path to hell. But instead of giving everything it has to getting the Tories out at this time of unprecedented opportunity, the Labour Party is engaged in acts of bloody self-harm over a largely manufactured situation. I must be one of very many who cringe every time Corbyn engages in yet another attempt at appeasement of the Labour Right and its allies. The image of Nero playing his fiddle while Rome burns comes to mind.
The people of this country need release from bone-crushing austerity,an NHS in tatters and threatened with takeover by US ‘healthcare’ corporations, widespread and growing homelessness and a housing market out of the reach of many, crisis in education, growing racism and intolerance and the prospect of yet another war in the Middle East, this time at the behest of Trump.
Let’s refocus our eyes on the prize before it’s too late!
redveg
The % is 0.1 not 0.06.
@ Redveg
An absolutely brilliant summary of the facts!
It’s amazing how many people leave the super-massive great elephant in the room out of the equation and, as such, their assessments. It truely is astonishing. And ANOTHER thing that appears to escape many commenters is how Jeremy is affected by all of the abuse that’s thrown at him.
Bay, welcome to SB, but could you explain WHO it is that threw them under the bus, as you put it, and more to the point……WHY. Perhaps you could relate what happened, for example, when Chris Williamson was reinstated, although I’m sure everyone who comes on skwawkbox recalls EXACTLY what happened. And had Jackie Walker been reinstated, there would have been a similar blitzkrieg of faux outrage and condemnation by the usual suspects and so-called journalists, as with Ken, had he not left the party of his own accord.
It does seem very, very odd to me that so many people on here don’t appear to get it. How many times does it have to happen before you DO – ie it’s a NO-WIN situation!
And I believe that Jeremy is handling it the best way he can under the circumstances and IN such circumstances.
Allan, you are asking me a number of questions which I think are meant to lead me in a certain direction and thus, make your point or points. But I don’t understand what you are getting at I’m afraid. Could you just say it in a simple way?
You have said, so many people on here don’t get it, and yes, I’m obviously not getting it. f you explain it in terms a child would understand, I will not be offended….. So…?
C’mon. Wake up Allan. The list of the victims of smearing is lengthy – with a disproportionate number of Jews amongst them.
If you are saying this is the best the Party under Corbyn can do on a serious issue of morality and free speech (i.e capitulate to the right) why are we wasting time blethering about a progressive government?
It’s called ‘collaboration’.
And what happened when Chris Williamson was reinstated, for example?
Or did you some how miss it!
Just to refresh your memory:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7190149/Over-100-Labour-figures-call-Jeremy-Corbyn-expel-MP-Chris-Williamson-anti-Semitism-row.html
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1146059/Labour-Party-Chris-Williamson-Anti-Semitism-John-Mann-Jeremy-Corbyn
https://news.sky.com/story/scores-of-labour-mps-and-peers-condemn-williamson-decision-11750073
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chris-williamson-labour-antisemitism-mps-jeremy-corbyn-inquiry-anti-jewish-a8978806.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9397819/chris-williamson-labour-party-anti-semitism/
And I haven’t really started yet!
And my point IS of course, that THIS is what we are dealing with AND the forces that are working against us – ie JC and his team and left-wing members and Momentum activists – as they HAVE been from the outset.
Alan,
You are seriously deluded if you genuinely believe that the electorate is going to vote a Party into Government which effectively reverses the innocent until proven guilty principle which is the cornerstone of due process standards in this Country.
The majority of reasonable people will quite rightly take the position that if the LP are prepared and willing to do that to their own members (who are also voting citizens) they would do he same to be voting public if they were voted into office.
And be in no doubt that point would be hammered home by the very same sources you quote and hang your hat on. This is no longer just about the LP its about fighting lynch mob rule. If you a’int got the balls for it, don’t worry. Others amongst the Party have.
Like Dave Hansell’s post.
Dave, your post is totally inchoherent, and you seem to have missed the key reason why Chris was suspended again – ie the condemnation by over a hundred Labour MPs and peers for reinstating him – which was of course widely reported right across the MSM. Anyone would think on reading your post that the LP/NEC – after having reinstated him – just decided for no particular reason to suspend him again a couple of days later AND nothing else happened. Extraordinary!
Are you not in the real world Dave?
RH said:
The list of the victims of smearing is lengthy – with a disproportionate number of Jews amongst them.
Now I’m not saying there weren’t a few more Jewish people who have been accused of anti-semitism, but the only ones I can think of are Jackie Walker and Tony Greenstein and Mike Sivier (of voxpolitical) – although I’m not absolutely certain about Mike being Jewish – and THEY all ended up being expelled of course. So can you think of any more?
That said, what I AM aware of is Jewish people who speak out against the atrocities inflicted on the Palestinians being labelled ‘self-hating Jews’ by the Israeli propagandists. Anyway, given that you said that a disproportinate number of Jews have been accused of anti-semitism, I assume you know who they were and, as such, can provide a list of names.
Allan – re. the disproportionate number of Jewish members suspended or expelled, I am, of corse, referring to those cases of which we have detailed knowledge. As a sample, assess the number in relation to the proportion of Jewish people in the population.
The ‘self-hating jew’/’wrong type of jew’ tropes are, in fact, very common antisemitic smears used by the right. And never identified as such.
I’m not sure why you are exerting so much energy denying the reality and recommending simply (and ineffectively) waving a white flag.
The basic point is that compliance hasn’t worked – see IHRA definition.
Or, in other words, you CAN’T back up your claim. Jeeze RH, you’re SOooo transparent!
My claim is easily evidenced. Off the top of my head, re. well known cases where expulsion,/suspension was a stich-up :
Jackie Walker, Tony Greenstein, Moshe Machover, Asa Winstanley have Jewish roots; Marc Wadsworth, Chris Williamson, Pete Willsman and Ken Livingstone (self-expelled) don’t (as far as I know)
The point I’m making is simple : in this sample of high-profile stitch-ups, Jewish members are over-represented in terms of the population – enough to raise an eyebrow, and support the idea that it isn’t ‘antisemitism’ that is the issue, but political allegiance and, specifically, unbending support for the Palestinian cause.
I have little doubt, had we access to the facts in other cases, the proportion of Jewish members would probably lessen – but that the constant wouldn’t be ‘antisemitism’, but support for the Palestinians, expressed as legitimate opposition to the tenets of Zionism and the consequent oppression of an indigenous people.
Bend anymore and labour will break .It will also be bankrupt ,how many thousands are being spent on 0.06 of the membership ?.Ah well just like the Tories to hit us in the pocket and humiliate us in the press .We are talking Tories right? The BBoJ are mostly Tories ,Labour against AS are mostly or ex labour and JLM have an intake for all parties. What chance is there of counteracting widespread bullying ,taunting and baiting of decent labour members and now gloating ? What chance that we could be focusing on the Tories at this critical time ?.The homeless ,children in poverty are depending on us .If I could say one thing to labour it would be ‘toughen up bloody toughen up'[ and perhaps reflect on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeX-SzAICdw
Sentiment much appreciated but Jim Connell had the Scottish tune “The White Cockade” in his head when wrote the lyrics of The Red Flag. When he heard the words set to a German christmas carol, he is reputed to have said: “They’ve only ruined me poem!” In my view, the only person who has managed to transcend this dirge is Robert Wyatt. With the original tune, there is a great version by Bill Bragg and Dick Gaughan. Mind you, after he turned out with the yellowTories in London on Saturday, I am loathe to lend Bragg an ear. Regardless, we should never forget Connell’s brilliant hymn.
Who makes the decision that it is Prima facie, the accuser ? This is counter to natural justice and total shame on Starmer for even entertaining it .The labour party has gone down a dark and sinister alley here .The members will not tolerate it .It will be rejected
Precisely … and there’s dozens more questions to answer.
It’s Dunkirk with the allies holding up a white flag and drilling holes in the bottom of the boats to let the water out.
The garbled nonsense on ‘educating’ the Party about AS was bad enough … but this is beyond the benefit of reasonable doubt.
I’d like to think your optimism is well placed but the party has adopted the IHRA of antisemitism – the modern day equivalent of the elephant trap and has thus already been hoist with its own petard.
CORRECTION: I’d like to think your optimism is well placed but the party has adopted the IHRA definition of antisemitism – the modern day equivalent of the elephant trap and has thus already been hoist with its own petard.
Regarding the adoption of the IHRA definition of anti-semitism, Jonathan Cook put it like this:
‘The political and media establishments quickly learnt that they could recharacterise his support for the Palestinians and criticism of Israel as anti-semitism. He was soon being presented as a leader happy to preside over an “institutionally” anti-semitic party.
Under pressure of these attacks, Labour was forced to adopt a new and highly controversial definition of anti-semitism…..’
(Ends)
‘UNDER PRESSURE OF THESE ATTACKS, LABOUR WAS FORCED TO….’
Jonathan gets it and, as such, understands precisely why Labour had no choice other than to adopt the definition, but some people will just go on denying reality – ie the power of the media – so that they can disseminate their asinine platitudes.
How, i wonder, do the accusers stand on the ‘anti-semitic’ front? Margaret Hodge, for example..
Just wondering if the shadow cabinet will be summarily expelled for ‘bringing the Party into disrepute’?
It strikes me that there is another issue that might justify the charge : the discriminatory singling out of the accusation of ‘antisemitism’, which all real evidence suggests has the smallest incidence of prejudice amongst all the forms we could name.
… and how about disciplinary action on false accusations? I haven’t seen any. Or have I been dreaming?
But what really pisses me is that Party members have been fending off the MSM image of it being a joke organisation riddled with nutters – and this ‘shadow cabinet’ (aka tossers) do the ‘Yes Sir, No Sir, Three Bags Full Sir’ grovel routine in full public view.
I would have more confidence in this proposal were I to see one single MP or party member suspended for racist social media posts on the rolling massacres in Gaza. Children there are being murdered, by snipers, daily and I suspect that half of the PLP and two thirds of Labour’s Lords are grinning and applauding.
There is real racism in the party and the Friends of Israel are guilty of some of the worst of it.
Yes. People don’t get it, do they? It isn’t antisemitism against Jewish culture that is the dominant problem – it’s the daily, continual persecution of the semitic people that are the Palestinians that is ignored. That is the modern form of egregious antisemitism.
Compare the column inches – in reverse proportion to the size of the problems.
And *that* is where the focus of wider education should be for Labour.
Which people don’t get it? Although the way you phrase it, no one at ALL gets it.
Yes, bevin, that’s all very well in theory, but how about dealing with the real world in which we find ourselves AND the fact that the MSM is the mouthpiece of the ruling Elite AND they control the narrative and, as such, hold ALL the cards.
Well, Allan – you seem not to ‘get’ the bleedin’ obvious.
The opposition certainly hold all the cards if you throw down your hand – i.e go along with the narrative.
The corollary of your standpoint is the simple question “Why bother?”
And what IS the ‘bleedin obvious’ RH?
Yet more meaningless and spurious platitudes. But pray, DO tell. What would their ‘hand’ have amounted to and achieved if, as you put it, they HADN’T thrown it down.
If you know that someone is ALWAYS holding all the aces, then you can never win of course – ie combat the falsehoods.
It’s an impossibility, and YOU know it, but you continue to pretend that you DON’T. I wonder why that is!
Two questions? Does this only apply to allegations of anti-Semetism and not all forms of discriminatory behaviour ,for example John Manns comments about travelers,if so are we not at risk of alienating many minority groups? Secondly will there be scope to take action against those who make clearly false allegations,including MPs who claim activists used clearly anti Semitic language when recordings show this to be untrue? Have to leave it there as I need to go and iron my white flag.
Jim l agree with you,but for now l will wait to see the detail.Being that the NEC are now being pro active and making decissions can we finally get Chris Williamson out of jail?……my judgment on the new proactive NEC will be coloured by the decision.A PR on justice might be a good start!
I expect Williamson to now be ‘auto-excluded’ on the basis it is a “high profile” case.
“… mean that high-profile or prima facie extreme cases would be accelerated to a panel consisting of NEC members plus the general secretary.”
He can appeal don’t forget, (if he can afford it)… it’s all fair and dandy and ‘legal’. The fact that it throws the fundamental ‘innocent until proven guilty’ out of the window and spits on it leaves me very glad UK no longer has the death penalty, who knows what LP might campaign for.
It seems bullying and bear baiting gets results.
Totally agree, Maria – and, remember, it’s not only Williamson who has been the victim of bent procedure – which is now being bent further.
An NEC that has adopted the IHRA ‘definition’ isn’t in the business of proper procedure and justice. It’s into media manipulation. And they can’t even get that right.
,for example John Manns comments about travelers
Or greasy’s overtly, knowingly racist tweet.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/what-can-learn-labour-mps-12014677
Sent just six weeks after complaining about someone being ‘blacked up’ to look like diane abbot at a darts event; with greasy calling it casual ‘racism’ at the time then claiming she didn’t know what constitutes ‘casual’ racism…
Which I complained to mann about when he was looking for ‘victims’ …Of course mann didn’t even deign to respond to me.
One rule for (‘moderate’) MP’s…
In our disciplinary process there absolutely has to be assumption of innocence until proven guilty that cannot be watered down
There also needs to be serious consequences for anyone making false or vexacious accusations otherwise the door is open to massive abuse
Yes we don’t hold all the cards as MSM and their RW labour conspirators have most of them BUT if we allow them to install the apparatus to easily exclude left wing members on the spurious grounds we have already witnessed then you will effectively be handing back the Labour Party to them
I see us eating ourselves. I see many ordinary members becoming terrified to engage in, what should be, legitimate discussions. I see a sort of tit for tat escalating due to members frustrations.
“I see us eating ourselves. I see many ordinary members becoming terrified to engage in, what should be, legitimate discussions.”
The object of all this is to shut down discussion… the PC party line must be followed to the letter.
It’s not ‘PC’ stuff – it’s far more sinister.
There’s one way we could avoid all of this AS-related infighting – bow down to Bibi & the Likud Party, adore them & exalt all they stand for.
In fact, accusations of AS would disappear overnight, & Twatson & his gang would have to find some other way to prevent Corbyn’s Labour being elected.
That is what de facto is happening… inch by inch the colonial system is quashing all anti-colonial thought from being expressed. Atrocities committed by colonial allies cannot be acted upon, only critised as going a ‘bit too far’ ‘it’s just not British what-ho’ for public consumption PR. Leaders must be relieved from the pressure from below somehow or leaders might be forced to actually DO something if/when in power to stop the murders, collective punishment, atrocities, humiliations and human rights abuses committed daily by the Israeli state against Palestinians.
When is this to be voted on by NEC?
Watson and his gang. And what about the small matter of the British Establishment?
This act of self-harm is voluntary – not imposed by either Watson or the British establishment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you’d like to have people believe RH. Nothing to do with the MSM and the plotters then. You really do come out with so much anti-Corbyn crap!
What the f. are you nattering about, Allan? We all know about the MSM propaganda narrative – but we don’t have to go along with it and look like incredibly stupid and feeble nodding dogs.
Yet again you use a strawman argument so as to avoid responding to the point I was making. You’re obviously a bit of an expert. And the point I was making of course is that tens of millions of people out there are being fed a daily diet of lies and falsehoods AND they obviously don’t know that they ARE.
I mentioned a recent poll in a post a day or two ago in which people were asked if they thought Labour was doing enough to deal with anti-semitism within the party, and fifty-something percent thought that they were, and thirty-something percent DIDN’T. In other words, eighty-something percent presumably believed that there IS a problem with anti-semitism within the LP, which after FOUR years of relentless smears and disinformation isn’t at all surprising of course.
And when the British Establishment and its fifth column excuse for the fourth estate start telling people ‘look what the LP are doing to its own members in reversing innocent until proven guilty & undermining due process, think what they’ll do to you if they get into Government’?
What then Alan?
It’s not bleedin quantum mechanics.
The reality is that it is you who do not get it.
I’m not quite sure what you’re on about Dave – welcome to SB by the way – as it has absolutely no bearing on what I was saying, so perhaps you could explain what your point was and how it related to what I said.
Nope, I’ve read your post half-a-dozen times now trying to make sense of it, but it’s just non-sensical. So unfortunately I can’t answer the question you pose – ie What then Allan? – so perhaps you could elaborate, as it was obviously a rhetorical question.
‘The Neo-Liberal Capitalist v The Socialist.
Socialist:
How can I ever please you?
Neo-Liberal Capitalist:
YOU KNOW YOU NEVER CAN.
FOR MY CLASS I HAVE TO BREAK YOU!
THOUGH YOU’RE SUCH A GENTLE MAN.’
Members:
“Jeremy’s Army is on its way!”
‘Justice & due process’…….must only be seen to be done. The illusion of democracy in the Labour Party continues as appeasement is the order of the day. The Mcpherson Report now applied to anti-Semitism is a frightening concept “only the alleged victim can define what anti-Semitism is……..no defence possible”. Israel is self evidently an extremely racist endeavour; speak truth unto power & you will be expelled from the Labour Party.
Thought McPherson said victims of perceived racism needed to be listened to but all cases had to be decided upon after a careful examination of the evidence.
No-one can be judge and jury.
You are crucially right, Bazza. The McPherson report made no claim of an alleged victim being able to define victimhood – *only* that such a claim should be initially taken at face value for investigation.
“The Shadow Cabinet is committed to defeating antisemitism and all forms of discrimination, including through greater education in our movement.”
Then the third and fourth paragraphs are about measures against anti-semitism only. I was hoping these rules are to be for all forms of discrimination.
Anyway, I genuinely believe that Labour Party members do not need any education on any form of discrimination, even the right-wing members of the PLP know this. It is etched in our DNA as members to fight against all forms of discrimination. This is just a PR stunt to appease the Israeli right-wing handlers of the PLP/MSM. And we know that they will not be appeased until we accept and promote ZIONISM as a political ideology, against the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 of 1975.
LP members need re-education as how not to fall foul of the PC party line though… or there will be another massive purge, this time sanctioned by party leadership when NEC votes it through which it no doubt will as PLP gave Formby a standing ovation…
Looking from outside the party this is becoming increasing unnerving, repressive and scary …soon LP members wont have to think at all… they will read from scripts or be thrown into exile or onto the modern ducking stool until they repent and get their lines right.
The ‘education’ that is needed is for the NEC and other associates who fell blindly into the IHRA trap. Any ‘educated’ person could see where that would lead, after best advice from good legal brains.
Those who can’t distinguish between prejudice and open debate based on facts are the ones requiring guidance towards enlightenment.
More falsehoods from RH! They DIDN’T fall ‘blindly into the IHRA Trap’. This is just more simplistic bunkum. The reality is that the right-wing Blairite members of the NEC were more-then-happy to adopt the definition, and those on the left who were reluctant to adopt it were FORCED to do so by the unrelenting pressure by the plotters/smearers and the MSM, which went on for weeks on a daily basis.
And RH knows it!
Did you not read the last paragraph Stewart? Seems unlikely to me. Anyway, the main purpose of the ‘anti-semitism’ web-page is so as to be seen by the public in general to be doing something pro-active, and if Jeremy points out, as he does, that it’s just a “small number”, then what’s your problem. This is what he said (as you know, cos you read it):
While other political parties and some of the media exaggerate and distort the scale of the problem in our party, we must face up to the unsettling truth that a small number of Labour members hold antisemitic views and a larger number don’t recognise antisemitic stereotypes and conspiracy theories.
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
And in fact when I opened the page again so as to copy and paste the above passage, I noticed that he actually points out in the SECOND paragraph that they will be covering ALL forms of racism in the coming months. This is what it says:
That’s why we are launching education materials for our members and supporters to help them confront bigotry, wherever it arises. Over the coming months, the party will produce educational materials on a number of specific forms of racism and bigotry. Our first materials are on antisemitism, recognising that anti-Jewish bigotry has reared its head in our movement.
Funny, isn’t it Stewart, how you missed that!
Hmm…..
If you are wondering why all this is a problem, this article puts the issues into perspective :
https://electronicintifada.net/content/lets-be-honest-about-britains-obsession-anti-semitism/27711
Note that the author has been a victim of dodgy charges of ‘antisemitism’ –
RH. The comments at the end of Tony’s excellent article are also worth reading.
So, I dare not comment on the demolition of Palestinian homes as carried out yesterday by the Israelis?
Oh yes. You can mutter ‘Tut, tut!’. There’s no sanction for that.
But try noting that this is structurally part of a policy of ‘ethnic cleansing’, or the inevitable product of an ethnically discriminatory political-religious colonial philosophy, and you might get the boot.
michael said:
So, I dare not comment on the demolition of Palestinian homes as carried out yesterday by the Israelis?
Yes, of course you can michael, and to believe otherwise is just plain silly and being totally absurd.
Typical dog’s breakfast! What is a ‘clear case’? Who decides? The BoD?
Summary expulsion! I.e. execution without trial.
Independent Barrister? The last independent Barrister was hounded out of the job. Does ‘independent’ in this case mean acceptable to the Zionist lobby?
If the Labour Party throw the Palestinians under a bus in their hunger for power, then as far as I am concerned Corbyn’s integrity goes with them and I will not be voting Labour.
“If the Labour Party throw the Palestinians under a bus in their hunger for power, then as far as I am concerned Corbyn’s integrity goes with them and I will not be voting Labour.”
LP, even in power, has never done anything substantive to stop the illegal and vicious military occupation and colonisation of Palestinian territories by the now overtly apartheid Israeli colonising state. It issues verbal condemnation of particularly egregious acts, that is all. Corbyn has stated he will recognise a Palestinian state… what’s the point at this late stage of the colonial project? There is no viable Palestinian state left, due to unchecked illegal Israeli colonies and demolitions of Palestinian homes and infrastructure, just a series of militarily occupied bantustans dependent on aid which is subject to the whim of imperial minded powers and the coloniser.
Let’s hope some of LP domestic policies have a possibility of being implemented to relieve suffering and risk of death due to Con and Lib Dem Govs … of course they will have to have liberal metro luvvies approval.
Trust me, I have had several dealings with the last barrister who was not IMHO hounded out. He was clearly not interested in getting to the heart of this issue and probably jumped before he tripped over his own shoelaces and fell out of the post.
Perhaps he was really a barista, but the current, totally inept GS missspelled in the job description, then subsequently hired the wrong person.
I broadly agree with much of what has been said here.
The fundamental problem is that Corbyn is trying to accommodate people who are out to destroy him.
That does not bode well. The rest of us must expose the true nature of those who are out to destroy him.
I am struck by how many Labour MPs, the latest being Yvette Cooper, are willing to defend that disgusting Panorama programme.
Let us recall a few facts:
1. Former staff members were allowed to make little speeches and certainly did not face any serious questioning at all. In fact, Ware was repeatedly seen nodding his head in agreement.
2. Jewish supporters of Corbyn were not allowed to appear. Their very existence was not even acknowledged.
3 No mention was made of Jackie Walker having Jewish heritage.
4. Some of the ‘interviewees’ were not even named. Their links to LFI and the Israeli Embassy were not mentioned.
A truly disgusting programme.
In addition, on leaving a number of staff rec’d NDAs to sign which allowed the LP to pay them amounts of cash. The cash is to reinforce” the “keep your mouth shut” concept of the NDA.
It would seem that it was the reverse on this occasion & they were to “keep their mouths open”.
“I am struck by how many Labour MPs, the latest being Yvette Cooper, are willing to defend that disgusting Panorama programme.”
I’m only surprised Cooper wasn’t one of the first out of the traps.
The irony, Tony, is that, for once, the Party actually got it’s act together on the rebuttal front – only to fall off the stage with the ‘education’ nonsense and the further bending of the already bent rules of due process.
Yes, and WHAT was the response to their rebuttal RH, or did you somehow miss it? A torrent of condemnation for attacking these ex-staffers who were ‘brave’ enough and ‘courageous’ enough to speak out blah, blah, blah, AND a full-page ad in the Guardian taken out by sixty-plus Labour peers.
Oh, but to have mentioned THAT would have completely undermined the point you were trying to make wouldn’t it!
Right here goes, why when we know and they know anti-semitism is minute in the party & it is all contrived to oust JC are we pandering to the JLM the BOD & the RW apologists for MP’s…Why? when I know (a mere member) that Israeli influence in the UK (Politics) Labour Party is ongoing that there is video proof of this, reference The Lobby 1,2,3 & 4
I am getting really disheartened and don’t understand why we seem to be rolling over & accepting everything that they are throwing at us. If I know all this I’m 100% sure the labour leadership knows as well. I would like someone to explain why Jackie Walker, Marc Wandsworth & Chris Williamson have been abandoned by a Party that is supposedly Democratic, I’m sorry I just cannot comprehend the reasons for this.
What worries me more is if JC cannot retort to UNTRUE anti-Semitic allegations what chance has he in Government if he’s conceded at this hurdle, will JC crack under pressure from the RW?? Inside & out of the party.
I just cannot believe what has happened to good socialists mentioned above.. who I stand by 100%
Hilary, you have echoed the thoughts of so many of us. The Party should pull out all the stops to defend its members instead of actively seeking to punish us for having malicious accusations thrown at us.
What was Chris Williamson suspended and re-suspended for “a pattern of behaviour” and what was that ‘pattern’? Telling the leadership a few home truths… that the members are frustrated to the eyeballs at the amount of appeasement an capitulation that has been carried out by the executive.
Hilary said:
why when we know and they know anti-semitism is minute in the party & it is all contrived to oust JC are we pandering to the JLM the BOD & the RW apologists for MP’s
Because there are millions of people out there – courtesy of the plotters and the MSM – who have been led to believe during the course of the past four years that A/S is endemic in the Labour Party, and on the left specifically. It’s down to ‘separate realities’, for want of a better way of describing it, and it would appear that many people – or posters on here, at least – are only seeing it from THEIR reality – ie that most of the allegations are false and that it’s all part of a manufactured and co-ordinated smear campaign (which it IS of course) – whereas for millions of people out there, they have been fed a diet of falsehoods and, as such, believe that there IS a serious problem of anti-semitism in JC’s Labour Party, and exist in a totally separate reality from US as such.
I would be interested to get your response to what I’ve said Hilary. Or anyone else for that matter.
Your continuing fixation with putting out white flags is entirely circular.
Just *how* do you do anything about the perceptions shaped by the media by simply agteeing with the narrative?
In the end, your defeatist argument leads to the dissolution of Labour as a political alternative – i.e. back to nuliarbore.
The Party ceases to have a function – it is replaced by the LibDems who see themselves as honest associates of the ruling hegemony.
I think that the point Hilary was making is that the LP executive KNOW that the accusations are malicious yet they still go ahead and act on them to the detriment of members. This then reinforces any critical view that the public may have and it escalates even further as you said.
However, we know that because there are Zionists in the Party and particularly in the investigation unit, as we saw on the Panorama programme, they actually welcome any suggestions of A/S so they can amplify them and even lie about them to smear Corbyn. They have no interest in having a Corbyn government in power, in fact they want the opposite and are willing to do whatever they can to prevent it.
Zionism actually needs A/S to justify its existence.
12.14 was to Allan Howard
Alan I think what you’re saying is the enlightened know what is going on whereas Jo public only know what is being fed to them through MSM. I totally understand what you are saying but the way Labour is dealing with it in my opinion is the wrong way to go about it, appeasing the enemy throughout history has never worked, it only emboldens them and comes across as a weakness and I truly believe the general public will see it in this perspective. A lot of people I know who are not politically motivated, are sick and fed up of the A/S debacle being rammed down their throats day in and day out. On Twitter a LibDem Supporter told me that he is disgusted with the constant smears of AS, I’m currently trying to convert him.
Also a few people have said to me that the constant reporting in the MSM of AS in the Labour Party are dodgy & asking what is going on & have the media nothing else to report on.
So in my humble opinion I think the constant reporting is having the reverse effect, people aren’t as stupid as the media think and can see through the constant barrage..
Jack T said:
What was Chris Williamson suspended and re-suspended for “a pattern of behaviour” and what was that ‘pattern’? Telling the leadership a few home truths…
This is a perfect example of the ‘separate realities’ I spoke about in the above post. Yes WE, in ONE reality, know that, but the millions in the OTHER reality DON’T because they were led to believe that Chris was suspended for saying something anti-semitic, as told to them repeatedly by the whole of the MSM, along with a bucket-load of outrage and condemnation to reinfoce in their minds that he DID say something anti-semitic. Yes, it was ALL faux outrage and condemnation, but THEY don’t know that, whereas WE *do*.
Separate realities!
Allan, you are stating the obvious. The whole point is that by the actions of the Party the ‘reality’ of the public is being pandered to on purpose.
My point is why, when there must be some in the Leadership who can see that the Party’s actions are self destructive, are they letting it continue?
The only conclusion I can draw is that the grasp of the Zionists on the Party is far far worse than even I thought and that those who should be dealing with it are much less competent than I gave them credit for.
Allan – you keep repeating the notion that the MSM propaganda narrative is powerful enough to shape perceptions of reality.
None of us would contradict this : perception is, indeed what it is all about, and the solidarity of the media has been remarkable in this instance. The research basis about the power of framing etc. is immense.
That’s not the point – which is the question of how that changes – at least significantly enough to lessen the contrary wing in an election.
The point that I and other make is that the strategy of accommodation – significantly in the original adoption of the IHRA definition, where there has been sufficient time to judge – has failed in its objective. I would further argue that it has actually had the opposite effect of reinforcing the notion of ‘institutional antisemitism’.
You ask me what I am doing about it. Pathetically little in comparison to the size of the problem – but I do take every opportunity to put people I talk/write to in touch with the clear and detailed evidence about media bias and the actuality.
‘wind’ not ‘wing’
We still don’t know the real reason why Gordon Nardell the Jewish barrister, said to be on the left, quit the Party so soon after being called in to straighten things out.
Could it be that he uncovered traitorous activities by the Zionist JLM but rather than blow the whistle he jumped ship?
From the dealings I had with Nardell, giving him evidence that the Compliance Unit were deliberately manipulating evidence to damn Corbyn supporters, with the support and collusion of the NWRO and the CLP, which he chose to ignore. I would say, you may be onto something there.
I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience to ‘Nemtona’?
More and more information is coming to light that there is possibly a conspiracy of giant proportions WITHIN the Labour Party structures at Southside and maybe throughout the country to make sure that Jeremy Corbyn never gets to No10.
Too many things just don’t add up, for instance:-
WHY have anti-Zionist Jews and others been targetted for suspension/expulsion?
WHY have Zionists such as Mann, Watson, Austin and Hodge etc been able to say and do almost anything without being sanctioned?
WHY were those making the complaints on the Panorama program almost exclusively from the Zionist JLM?
WHY have we had no information about any investigation into the apparent lie told by investigator Ben Westerman?
WHY did Gordon Nardell leave so quickly?
And finally, what is being done about the anti-Semitic remarks made recently by Margaret Hodge regarding Shraga Stern?
It looks highly likely that we have the makings of a massive scandal within our Party, taking place right under our noses.
A couple more WHYs :-
WHY was Miko Peled, internationally respected Jewish Israeli peace campaigner and anti-Zionist expelled from last year’s Labour conference?
WHY was Ayelet Nahmias-Verbin, Israeli polititian who said Jeremy Corbyn was an anti-Semite and that Jews in the UK would be in danger if he ever got to be PM able to attend last year’s conference and be welcomed by Tom Watson?
*politician.
All good questions. I’ll throw into the mix the unions. Where have the TU reps on the NEC been when members have been falsely accused? Members pay subscriptions for representation, is this reserved only for workplace related issues?
I paid my subs to Unite and when I was accused I asked for help from the union. Despite offering legal services, they would not even give me any advice.
There was an alleged complaint against me from a neighbouring CLP. The party will not supply me with the evidence of this complaint, but I have been told that the party member is a Unite member. It was backed up by a small number of the CLP executive, The small group included several members of Unite (or their family and friends). They never informed the general management committee of their actions, so it was kept quiet and to a small group).
One of the EC executive is the mother to a Unite sponsored shadow cabinet member.
Among this group was a member of the NW Regional Board and who was also a member of the Unite political committee. Not present at the meeting, but was party to the CLP shenanigans was at this time a NEC representative – guess which union?
In fact, the NEC rep took CLP executive minutes and covered up a nasty case of bullying which I complained to the NWRO about, which was ignored, by the regional director.
Jennie Formby, is also a member of Unite and has consistently ignored all my emails and my solicitors letters to try and bring these anomalies to her attention.
With the exception of the original complaint (and the ICO have instructed the party and in particular the CLP secretary to let me have the evidence, which I am still waiting for) I can evidence everything I have said.