Analysis Breaking

Video: Starmer loses it on BBC with crazy ‘refer yourself to specialist’ idea

People are already criticised for turning up at GPs and A&E when they may not need to – a false accusation in many cases, used by politicians to excuse the interminable waits caused by intentional fragmentation, privatisation and underfunding.

Now Keir Starmer wants to open the floodgates by allowing people to refer themselves to specialists without initial medical diagnosis by GPs – perhaps the stupidest idea ever by a politician:

Keir Starmer and Wes Streeting have already declared war on doctors and other NHS staff. Now with waits for treatment at record levels – and Labour with no intention of solving the real causes – Starmer wants to flood specialist treatment with people who may not need it.

One NHS activist’s reaction to Starmer’s ‘idea’

Could anything better display just how bereft of genuine political ideas and imagination the Labour right is?

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43 comments

  1. ITs mind boggling the pure idiocy coming out of the mouths of these dummys
    .Parliament and this stock of MPs are increasingly looking like somthing from a monty python show unfortunately the laughs on the British people and most importantly the labour party members who will be blamed for voting for this version of slapstick comedy.to represent the people without a grain of common sense or even lodgic.amongst the misfit mps and leader.of the labour party.RIP.
    I suppose to be fair that once youve aceppted the money 💰the puppetmasters will demand a dance “no matter how stupid the leader of the labour party looks……And so we see the so called opposition mouthing platitudes privatization to solve the problems of a public service being bled dry by…..Yes 👍privatized profiteers and pirates…

    1. One obvious issue is the necessity for increased health funding.
      You can refer yourself if you like under this scheme but without increased funding you’ll still be waiting years to see a specialist.
      And of course, Starmer is not going to increase taxes on his wealthy donor lobbyists – is he!

      1. Bernie – We won’t know that until the run up to the next election when the manifesto is published but in the meantime Labour have already announced that they will be abolishing non-dom tax status to help pay for more medical staff training and recruitment

      2. And we can recall how neoliberal New Labour subverted Nye Bevan’s ‘cradle to grave’ care and fined Ipswich hospital £2.5mil for treating too many patients too quickly. They were operating a 122-day rule deliberately blocking suffering patients from getting treatment inside of 4 months.
        See link –‘New’ fake Labour’s phoney public service claims
        https://arena.org.au/the-lefts-right-turn/

      3. This same New Labour NHS rule blocking suffering patients from getting treatment via a system of fines was operating all over the country.
        Take a look at this article about Hospitals being fined in Sussex at the other end of the country.
        You can’t run public services to post-war consensus levels while corruptly giving your mates among the Billionaire-class a holiday from their tax commitments. Once bitten..!
        https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1078628.hospitals-told-not-to-treat-too-many-patients/

  2. This is the system they have in America — provided you have insurance. The upshot is that the patient is bounced from specialist to specialist who may well disagree about the patient’s condition and the appropriate treatment, until something works out. It’s the responsibility of the patient to find the right specialist. In the NHS doctors and specialists tend to work as a team to help the patient, so any disagreements are sorted out between them. No doubt Starmer got this idea from the consultants who are trying to impose an American style insurance healthcare on the UK.

    1. Exactly, next Wes Streeting will announce patients can refer to private, insurance based, healthcare!

      #StarmerOut
      #Labour is a red Tory Party

  3. Could anything better display just how bereft of genuine political ideas and imagination the Labour right is?

    And how unrealistic, impracticable and dangerous it is.

    As soon as Starmer gets his hands on the state levers of power, the institutions which the levers are supposed to operate, will change. This is intentional and the danger of the Labour right. For the Few, not the Many

  4. Out here in the real world those of us who reside in the reality based community understand that the only way anyone can ‘self-refer’ themselves to the right specialist consultant is by being able to accurately diagnose what it is they are suffering from.

    The only practical way in which such a system could operate is as a result of every single citizen in the Country being able to accurately self-diagnose themselves.*

    *sidebar: at this point I had intended to add the proviso of “or minors they are responsible for as either parents or guardians”. However, given that the official policy of the cult running the Labour party is already to allow children (who otherwise are not deemed mature enough to vote; buy tobacco/alcohol products, sharp implements or glue; enlist in the military; get married; be held criminally responsible; and in some cases cross the road unsupervised) to self diagnose themselves as a different biological sex (and doubtless being able to legally declare themselves a different species to the one assigned a birth will not be long in coming) such a proviso is rendered meaningless.

    Several observations occur.

    The first being; good luck with that one. It’s certainly a guaranteed methodology which will result in a rapid reduction in population in line with the requirements of the WEF Great Reset agenda.

    Secondly, how would such a process be administered in a cost effective and efficient way? Will there be local education courses in advanced medical diagnosis? How much will they cost and will they be tax deductible or will we have to pay VAT? Will we need a mortgage to afford one? How long will one have to wait for an appointment to attend such a course? Will you have to go the bottom of the waiting list if you go to the wrong specialist?

    The mind boggles!

    Finally, assuming such a process is introduced and everyone is deemed as being sufficiently compas mentis to be able to self diagnose themselves there will, by definition, be no need for the NHS to employ costly GP’s or even doctors. Presumably, the next barmy idea from the production line numpties who brought us the unforgettable managementspeak bingo gem;

    “These teams will adopt a product-mindset using agile ceremonies, be empowered to make decisions and encouraged to focus on rapid prototyping, deployment and iteration.”

    …..will be DIY self-care in which anyone who is sick – from cancer sufferers to those with dementia – will be expected to cure themselves of whatever ailment befalls them. Doing away with the need for hospitals, care homes, social care, or, indeed, any health provision whatsoever beyond that of the provision of anything in which an exorbitant rent can be charged by feudal style rentier parasites: like scanners, x-ray machines, or other medical equipment.

    And this is what is argued by some useless idiot numpties on this site as being “The only credible alternative” that everyone should suck up to.

    What’s that I hear someone say?

    “The Russians are coming”?

    The state of things as they are and are rapidly becoming, they can’t get here soon enough for some us mate.

      1. Mmm, but in EVERY single health system the world-over, referral to a ‘specialist’ clinician can only happen via another (‘referring’) clinician:

        No workable health system allows self-referral. It’s as if Starmer is trying to get us to kill the austerity-weakened NHS for him (and Sir Klaus Schwab ‘s billionaires’ collective, the WEF)

      2. Yes, where it happens (even in UK, new ‘NHS elective care’ regulations), it is the market system that facilitates it, not the health system per se. And even when done through the NHS or private medicine, UK law enables only institutional referrals, not referrals to named clinicians, which is what Starmer seems to be suggesting.

      3. What the rest of us would find interesting is YOUR take on keefs’ latest clueless gobshitery as mentioned in the article.

        Oh ..Did I say interesting??

        Meant to say risible. My bad.

      4. Toffee – Thanks for your interest, I love you too 😘, unfortunately I haven’t got around to watching this mornings political interviews yet.

      5. That’s just another of your piss-poor excuses. It’s within the original post.

        No need for it to be put onto context because it’s as plain as the nose on your face what was said and how he said it.

        Therefore ANY mitigation is an agreement with the gobshite.

        Now…Out with it.

      6. Toffee – Thanks for your carefullyconsidered advice but I’ll watch the whole program first and do any further research that I think is necessary before commenting. unlike you I prefer not to be lead by the nose.

      7. So you’re telling us all that keef DIDNT say people should be able to self-refer?

        The VT proves it beyond reproach.

        You’re unwell.

      8. You know when suspects are interviewed by the plod?

        They do it to garner answers that incriminate the suspect.

        Then they tell the judge and jury that (when asked) “the suspect gave answer ‘x’ ”

        They don’t go over the whole fucking kit & caboodle and mention irrelevant bollocks like: ‘The suspect admitted being a totally incompetent gobshite but he also told us that his mother was a nurse and his father was a toolmaker”

        What relevance has the WHOLE interview got on the answer he gave to a specific question, you complete fucking gawp?

      9. Toffee – Thanks for your keen interest in my musings but I am going to reserve my judgement until I am better informed.

      10. I am going to reserve my judgement until I am better informed.

        Gonna be a loooooooong time reserving that judgement then. 😏

        Thank Christ for that 🥳

        better informed he says – fuck me that’s a winner, right there 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

        From the beaut who’s STILL that convinced keef HASN”T rigged on EVERY ONE of his ten pledges that he had to ask me to name a single one keef broke only a few days ago.

        DO come back when you’re better informed, genius.

        But be aware we haven’t got forever (although longer than you, if there’s any justice)

      11. Thought you was “reserving your judgement until better informed ??

        Here’s a tip, soft ollies. Best crack on with watching the video in the OP for starters, instead of lying by offering a jilted schoolgirl-style comeback.

        Happy to help…And, by Christ, do you need it 👍

      12. Toffee – I appreciate that you are hanging on my every but they do say that ‘patience is a virtue’.

  5. Streeting talks about GPs in very derogatory terms, but that initial primary care assessment plays an important role.

    Of course Labour’s proposals are completely bonkers; many complaints are hard to diagnose for professionals. There was a good thread on Twitter that the guardian’s Owen Jones retweeted, from such a medical professional. It illustrates how easy it is to get it wrong. You’ll end up with loads of pushy, middle class hypochondriacs, who’ve googled their diagnosis, self-referring, demanding tests. It’s a recipe for further delays and backlogs.

  6. “Dave Hansell15/01/2023 AT 3:31 PM” prompted me to check on some financial data.
    Here are the figures for the percentage of GDP that the National Debt represents.
    United States – 135% (and they are about to hit the “debt ceiling”, which would result in them not being able to borrow any more unless the Congress approves it)
    United Kingdom – 109% (much better than the US, but not exactly hunky dory)
    Russia – 13.4% (and it has fallen by 5.6% from 2021 t0 2022)

    1. @Goldbach

      Anything over 100% = banana republic.

      Gonna be some serious pain heading our way.

      Being poor is one things, being poor and in debt is totally unacceptable.

      @All
      Kill your debts whilst you can

    2. On the subject of that self-appointed superior, exceptional and indispensable beacon and parogon of democratic virtue which has reached the pinnacle of development and the end of history here’s a typical street scene in Philadelphia:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB6gwOBClwE

      …..coming to your local UK High Street anytime now 9if its not already here).

  7. This man (Starmer) should be sectioned as he I totally in sane. I use to be a member of the labour party, but canceled my membership when Starling went to war on the left. If we are unfortunate to have him as leader of Labour then I will spoil my ballot voting slip by writing Jermy Corbyn name on it and marking X for JC. Solidarity comrades.

      1. Well Martin isn’t the only one to have done the frank bough under keefs’ watch is he?

        How many members has keef gained again**?

        **Facepalms before the usual bullshit stock answer about Corby supposedly “losing” members is wheeled out for the cunteenth time🤫🤫🤫

      2. Toffee – You have some strange obsessions.
        It’s a matter of public record and whether you choose to accept or reject the facts is of little relevance to me or I suspect anyone else.

      3. But but but, you’re meant to be better informed than me…I’m merely a non-party member with NO say in how the party’s run/governed and know nothing of how things are, according to your infinite better informed wisdom.

        Stop being a spoilsport and give us all another laugh (at your expense) 👍

      4. Toffee – Wow😲, you’re displaying an uncharacteristic degree of self awareness today.

  8. I’m a bit psychotic tonight. But hope you may still value my suggestions. Brain haemoriging could surely be seen by the man in the corner shop. STD’s seen in brothels. Strokes seen by a domanatrix, Blimey when you think about its all so easy. Cancer patients first port could be a naturist, it could cost the NHS so much less and then a superior private health care could see to those few stubborn things that wont go away. Rest assured.

  9. They’re called General Practitioners because they have broad diagnostic skills and can make informed decisions signposting/referring those they see to the relevant person. The alternative, as Starmer is advocating, presumes that patients have the knowledge and objectivity to be able to perform this function for themselves. Taking his own medicine, Starmer should get himself sectioned if he thinks this ridiculous idea should be uttered in public, never mind be considered as policy.

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