Analysis

Poll shows Starmer’s really got his finger on the pulse in opposing corporation and wealth tax rises

Or is it somewhere a lot darker..?

Keir Starmer and his front bench have outraged Labour supporters by saying that they will oppose Rishi Sunak’s plan to increase tax on companies and wealthy individuals that have made a fortune during the pandemic – and at the same time, the Labour hierarchy is threatening councillors with severe disciplinary action if they oppose Tory cuts to local government budgets.

Starmer’s opposition to tax rises – almost the only time in his leadership that he’s actually opposed anything – puts him alongside the hard right of the Tory party. His supporters claim that’s because it’s not the time tax rises don’t fit the ‘public mood’ – and because he needs to pursue Tory voters.

Well, the public – including Tory voters – seems to drastically disagree with him about what its mood is – with more than two thirds saying they agree with tax rises right the hell now:

Chart by @LeftieStats

Maybe it’s not just his finger he’s got somewhere dark.

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43 comments

  1. It’s almost as if Starmer’s Cunning Plan (Turnip optional) is to listen to focus groups entirely composed of lifelong Tory voters with the intention of creating policies that will attract them to vote Labour.

    1. As we know that won’t happen. Tory voters probably don’t understand why the PLP, Southside , the MSM , the Establishment including the Jewish Establishment dragged Jeremy Corbyn’s good name into the gutter. They do not know why the 300,000 of us who supported his leadership throughout were smeared and vilified by these same people.
      All they know is that they have been told repeatedly by our MPs , Labour Lords and all the others that Jeremy is not patriotic , a terrorist sympathiser, a pacifist and a Jew hating racist. We his supporters are supposedly the same but we are also accused of being bullies thugs homophobes dogs and scum. Even if they only believe some of it they will probably never vote Labour. Mud sticks.
      Those voters who saw through the lies won’t vote Labour either – who wants to vote for a party whose MPs and fulltime officials set out to scupper the party’s chances of election by destroying the reputations of the Leader and his supporters – that’s why so many openly anti Corbyn MPs lost their seats in the 2019GE ( along with the fact that the alleged bullies homophobes etc have votes too and withheld them from those who were insulting and name calling them).
      When the anti Corbyn forces joined in a concerted campaign to destroy Jeremy they also destroyed Labour’s chances of getting into government for the foreseeable future. Starmer’s concessions to big business won’t make a blind bit of difference- the damage has been done and we will be out of government for a long time to come.

      1. And who was one of the main instigators of the above – Peter Meddlesome. Old Pete is now a key advisor to Starmer helping to reverse all of the negativity that he helped to generated.

        Well good luck with that one Meddlesome will find that slagging off Corbyn to the Tory press was the easy part. Poetic justice really

  2. It is rumored that Starmer is a member of the Trilateral Commission. Thus, are we really surprise that he is defending the best interest of the multinational corporations? I ain’t surprised at all, Starmer’s stand against raising Corporation Tax is all to be expected.
    The question to ask Sir Keir and his supporters is how would Labour increase revenue? Because clearly we either increase revenue or would have to impose austerity. Those are the choices.

    1. It’s not a ‘rumour’ , Maria. The Trilateral Commission has its own surprisingly comprehensive website , which can be trawled through to eventually find , on ‘membership’ that Starmer was invited to join in 2018, and indeed DID join – the European section of the Commission – which is divided up on a continent by continent basis, Starmer is the ONLY Commission member in the entire House of Commons (David Miliband was an invited member previously) . I’d say Starmer has ‘delivered in spades’ for the Commission – completing the destruction of the ‘Leftism’ of the short-loved ‘Corbyn era’ Labour Party. That Starmer and his cronies are destroying the Labour Party forever as a possible future governing Party is of no concern to his Trilateral Commission puppet masters.

      You are quite correct on Labour’s tax position on the budget – by opposing tax increases for big corporations(most of whom can dodge the increases anyway) – or suggesting ways to close those huge tax loopholes for them, only renewed borrowing from the money markets or printing new money is possible as an alternative to a renewed ‘austerity on steroids’. NuLabour chooses Super Austerity of course – with the imminent collapse of most local government services in particular ! NuLabour is now significanty TO THE RIGHT of Johnson’s Tory Party on economic policy So much for Starmer’s ‘Ten Pledges’ !

      1. Thanks both, Jpenny and qwertboi for confirming Sir Keir membership to the Trilateral. His actions and lack of action It all makes sense doesn’t it?
        I see the Labour Party in the same position as the Liberal Party after WW1. I am not going to be surprised if the Labour Party disappears as a political force should Sir Keir be allowed to remain as Party’s leader until the next General Election.
        The left, left-center voters of the Party will most likely vote Green and the right, center right voters could be persuaded to vote LIbDems, while some left Labour’s voters will not bother to waste time going to the ballot box to vote at all.
        I hope to be wrong but Labour under Starmer could go below 200 seats. Hence, our priority should be to defend the seats held at present by socialist. The rest we don’t have the time or in my case, the inclination to help them.

      1. Older Trilateral Membership lists show that Mandelson & David Miliband were previously members of Trilateral Commission as well.

      2. Iain – and yet nobody seems to care one way or t’other. I wonder why that is.

  3. Whilst I seldom recommend an article from the often very idiosyncratic CPB’s ‘Weekly Worker’ – this excellent article on that ‘hollow man’ , the Trilateral Commission’s creature, Starmer, sums up perfectly his , and his Labour Right cronies’, dead-end political bankruptcy, very, very well. The strength of the article though is the wider historical positioning of both the bankrupt Labour Right AND the equally useless Labour Left in the actual role of the Labour Party as the ‘Reserve Party of UK capitalism’.
    https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1336/hollow-man-for-hollow-times/

    Yet , despite the pathetic cowardice of the entire Labour Left , from PLP to Momentum, throughout the constant sabotage by the Right of the 2015 to 2019 ‘Corbyn Insurgency’ , and the total failure of his supposed ‘socialist Campaign Group’ comrades to even resign the PLP Whip in solidarity with Jeremy’s suspension from the PLP, we are all expected to buy into the fake radical rhetoric of Trickett, Lavery, Smith, and co on Socialist TV ! FFS, Lefties , Labour is a dead-end swamp for any Left advance . Only a new extra Labour new radical party can escape the mire of the ‘Broad Church’, of corrupt Labourism. and to the predictable response of , ” but what about the barrier of FPTP to a new Left Party?” – I say , that WAS indeed the past reality (until Labour lost forever both the Scottish and English working class heartland voters) – but Nulabour is over as a mass party with government potential now – doomed very soon to follow all the old social democratic parties of Europe into electoral oblivion. As the May local elections will demonstrate. If ever there was a time for a new Left Party it is now – with a few key trades union backers. Unfortunately if the Left yet again stupidly splits the Left vote for UNITE’s new General Secretary , that vital mass trades union will NOT be a part of any new realignment. And Beckett’s opportunism will have cost us dear – It is BECKETT who is the splitter , Skwawky. .

    1. Thanks for the link to the article jpenney, agree with every single point you are making including that Beckett is the splitter and not Turner.
      An agreement was reached between the two of them and Beckett should respect the agreement, stand by his word, withdraw his candidacy and support Turner.

    2. jpenney, looks like you could be on a roll tonight with all those ‘likes’. I wonder if the ‘likes’ realise they are agreeing with a Zionist whose intention, particularly because of Corbyn’s support for the Palestinians, has always been to undermine the Labour Party and its Palestinian supporters?

      1. Jack T, can you please elaborate? Who is the Zionist you are referring to? I am confused.

      2. You really are quite insane, JackT, with your “everyone is Zionist but me and Hamas” nonsense. My highly critical position on Israel , and my support for the Palestinian people is exactly the same as that of Jeremy Corbyn (and the PLO, UN, most world governments, and actually most of the UK population) . Not demanding the immediate dismantling by force of the state of Israel does not make one a ‘Zionist’ , you obsessive anti-Semitic nutcase .

      3. You hurl out you zionism allegations so freely that you don’t even realise you’re doing it, do you jackanory??

        Of course, you’re not obsessed. Just like the other cretin isn’t obsessed with his dear leader…

        For anyone accused by the paranoiac I suggest you bookmark the page after copying the link to his accusation in the URL and use it as evidence the next time he plays all innocent and risibly asks who he’s accused (this time).

        …Although even then it probably won’t register..a bit like reality doesn’t register with the other cretin.

        *shrugs*

      4. Maria, l am referring to jpenney. On many occasions he has defended Zionism, the racist ideology which is destroying Palestinian lives. He knows that Corbyn supports the Palestinian cause and therefore at any opportunity, he attempts to undermine him and the Labour Party. We know that there are now more than enough reasons to criticise Labour but jpenney was doing it even when Corbyn was making headway.

      5. jpenney, your comment to me is typical Zionist smear tactics of the type used by the Israel Lobby to smear and undermine Jeremy Corbyn. You then you top off your disgraceful comments by calling me antiSemitic.

        I have no desire to see Israel dismantled by force. My ‘desire’ is that it should not be an apartheid State and it should not be continuing it’s policy of dispossessing Palestinians of their land and homes. Israel is a racist Zionist State which persecutes anyone including Jews who reject Zionism.

        Because of Corbyn’s support for the Palestinians, Zionists inside and outside Labour mounted a vicious smear campaign against him. Is it any wonder that many of those who have been expelled by Labour are Jews who reject the Zionism of Israel and Starmer?

        Now perhaps you could let us know if you too reject Zionism?

      6. Toffee says “You hurl out you zionism allegations so freely that you don’t even realise you’re doing it,”

        This is one of your favourite schoolboy accusations but as yet you have not been able to substantiate it. Why? because you can’t. Could it be that you are attempting to defend Zionism, which is probably the most powerful enemy of Labour and Socialism?

    3. More fake and phony left-wing bashing from jpenny I see. It’s just the same old same old B/S practically every time he posts. Yeah, sure jpenny, if only the SCG MPs had resigned the whip, and he says it knowing damn well that it wouldn’t have made the slightest bit of difference if they had AND, had it received any coverage in the fascist owned and/or controlled MSM, it would have been negative AND more-than-likely included quotes from the usual groups and individuals condemning and vilifying them for defending an anti-semite etc, etc, etc.

      Jpenny knows this, but his objective is to (falsely) discredit them (and the left in general) every-which-way he can think of. AND repeat it over and over and over again, as black propagandists DO, what with repetition being a subtle form of brain-washing!

      Funny, isn’t it, how there’s so many people who claim they are left-wingers bashing left-wing MPs and groups on this site practically every single day, week in, week out, month after month after month!

      Yeah, Joseph Goebbels would have been full of admiration for them!!

    4. jpenney, agree with you that capitalism depends on profits and therefore capitalism encounter/creates economic crisis periodically.
      However, capitalists finds a way of making profits out of every crisis, you only need to see the multi million profits opportunity that Covid-19 has created tor the few.
      We know in which pockets the profits end, now it is a question to ensure that the same pockets pay for it. But Sir Keir is determine to ensure that the 1% don’t pay for it.

      1. You are of course quite correct, Maria, that SOME (‘vulture’) capitalists will make a profit no matter how dire the overall global capitalist crisis. The vulture-like ‘profit from the destruction of capital’, engaged in by hedge funds being a case in point. But AS A GLOBAL SYSTEM capitalism is locked deeply into one of its profound cyclical crisis of profitability and stagnation – no matter how much free money national and bloc (eg, The EU Central bank) collectively pump into the system. The ‘profits’ currently being made by the financial speculators are, largely, in Marxist terms, ‘fictitious profits’, that add no real value to the overall system . Rather than the much boasted of ‘creative destruction’ of financial speculators, which can actually be quite real in periods of capitalist boom – (efficiently allocating capital to growth sectors) , the over-dominant financial sector globally today is engaged in the destruction , the cannibalising of the system, to desperately keep their profit returns up. This has been an ever-accelerating process since the post 1945 great long boom ran out of steamin the 1970’s – and what we call ‘neoliberalism’ became the dominant capitalist mode – ie, stripping out the’state-run welfare systems of the advanced economies, deregulation, privatisation, suppression of trade unions, and the export of the ‘big battalion’ trade unionised heavy industry to low wage authoritarian Third World states. All to delay the profit crisis capitalism globally is now locked into.

        There is no escape from the current global capitalist crisis – only a desperate ‘holding operation’ with ever-greater robbery of the many by the few – the superrich capitalist class – and eventually global fascismand war . OR , somehow capitalism globally finds new even more advanced production techniques to rival the revolutions of previous cycles , eg, the ‘Industrial Revolution steam powered cycle , then the cheap oil/ petrol/diesel powered , and huge advances in automated production, cycle of the 1945 to 1970’s Long Wave. The hype of ‘Green production’; certainly isn’t going to do it . Maybe no new super-productive capitalist cycle lies ahead (fusion power plus huge advances in biotech ?), in which case its a choice of rationally planned global socialism – OR global environmental degradation and barbarism.

  4. SKS knows he has to appeal to ex Lab voters who voted Tory so maybe this stance is convenient in the short term especially as economists especially on the left and proponents of MMT (Modern Monetary Theory or Magic Money Tree to its detractors) like Professor Richard Murphy are against tax rises at the moment while the economy is in such a parlous state. In the longer term Maria Vazquez is quite right, how would he raise revenue and use the tax system to reshape society? It is about time SKS started formulating and publishing a strategic plan. It will be interesting if MMT (‘you want to spend it, we’ll print it’) is adopted by the party because although superficially attractive (especially in the short term) it’s fairly easy to expose as a none runner.

    1. Yes, Sir Keir really should be made to explain where his atrocious) top-down fabian managerialism can “source” the money that he believes we are in critically short-supply of. Spot on.

      BUT
      MMS is far from a non-runner, I’d argue. Far from it. It would, though, as its proponents like Bill Murray argue, change the dynamics of the economy in such a way that capitalism would wither and die – and this, to me as a democratic socialist, is an important benefit, but only a secondary reason for it.

      If the subject is of interest to you, here is a very good thought-provoking piece, https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/06/for-mmt

      1. Unfortunately, although governments can indeed create new money , within distinct limits before the international value of its currency slumps in relation to rival currencies, ‘Modern Monetary Theory’ itself is complete economic bunkum, qwertboi. It is naive ‘magical Left Keynsianism’ for Left reformists – who want to believe that a Magical Money Tree of essentially UNLIMITED money creation (for governments with a sovereign currency) can overcome the current global capitalist stagnation and, directly related , falling rate of profit crisis .

        In fact only a new global capitalist take-off , on a par with the post 1945 postwar Long Boom of 1945 to the 1970’s , which was based on huge improvements in mass semi automated and fully automated production technologies, the cheap oil phenomenum, and massive improvements in chemical engineering, and a massive opening up of global trade under US hegemony, can restore global capitalist profitability. Printing money, even to fund productive technology or the (largely mythical) ‘Green tech revolution’ won’t do the job – or the ginormous global Quantitative Easing by central banks of the last ten years , post 2008, would have lifted the global economy out of stagnation already. MMT is pure fantasy economics for Leftie reformists – ignorant of how both capitalism works, or of the Marxist explanation of the falling rate of profit (and the historic reality of the demonstrable long sequence of capitalist ‘Kondratiev Long Waves ‘ of growth during the history of capitalism – followed by crisis-ridden stagnation periods as each cycle runs out of steam – and profitability)

      2. J Penny. All western capitalist governments are counting on the great reset and the green new deal to bring back growth which is why MMT is currently in vogue. Along with arms sales of course.

      3. Really lundiel ? “All western capitalist governments are counting on the great reset and the green new deal to bring back growth “. Complete bunkum again, lundiel. This ‘Great Reset’ stuff is just fantasy nonsense on social media. And most of the overheated promises for a ‘Green Deal’ is also utter junk – full of verbiage and fantasy and dodgy pseudo-scienc (for instance , there simply isn’t enough lithium and rare earths on the planet to sustain moving from petrol vehicles to battery powered ones on a global scale – or a ‘non-polluting’ electricity generation to charge them up . Exporting the ‘advanced’ (ie, financialised and deindustrialised) economies’ dirty ,co2 producing, industries to the Far East , etc, but still obviously needing huge amounts of the steel and petroleum-based plastics from them in manufactured goods to maintain our current industry-based lifestyles doesn’t do anything to reduce GLOBAL co2 emissions.

        In reality the global governments collectively have NO IDEA how to get out of an ever-worse global capitalist stagnation and profit famine (made even worse by the current covid19 lockdowns) – other than that old standby – ie, ever-tightening austerity for their ordinary citizens – with ever-greater tax breaks and direct profit support from their captive political elite-controlled government to Big Business.

        The last Great Global Stagnation, in the 1930’s was only broken by World War Two, 100 million dead, a huge destruction of capital assets, and the revolutionising of capitalist production methods and technologies . Forget fantasy nonsense about ‘Great Resets’ , or the ‘Green technological revolution’ . There is no sign of a technology-based start of a new 1945-style , new capitalist growth cycle takeoff . In fact the planet’s ecosystem probably couldn’t sustain that. Its socialism or barbarism time folks. If I was a betting man I’d currently have to place my bet on Barbarism I’m afraid. And then , if I ‘won’ , I’d have to be paid out in turnips !

      4. I agree but it will provide a modicum of growth. There will imo be a rise in manufacturing, technology and transport but it won’t be nearly enough to provide full employment or balance the budget.

    2. Modern Monetary Theory or MMT is not a theory. It is not even a hypothesis. It is simply a description of how the modern monetary system works.
      That is all.
      The issue is who the system works for.
      I would simply recommend that people look at and listen to what people like Richard Murphy and Stephanie Kelton write and say.
      When you get to grips with these ideas you realise that without the political bit, economics is moonshine. To separate politics and economics is an act of deliberate deception.

      1. Well said. Marx said pretty much the same about politics and economics, pointing out that that they are necesserily connected and inseperable from each other.

  5. He knows it’s not popular that’s why he is threatening Labour councillors to support his BS Tory-lite views. That’s the demand from his pals with all the cash that backed him and made him great leader of the cult of new Labour 2.0!!

    We still only know where some of that money come from that paid for his leadership? There is always a price and this is his it obvious.

    As usual, he doesn’t care what anyone says because the only people he listens to is his rich backers.

    1. If you have evidence that KS hasn’t declared all his donations then you have a duty to present your evidence to the Parliamentary Standards Committee

    2. Where was your faux outrage when Jeremy was LOTO and issued the same instructions to Labour local authorities, was he also wrong in your eyes.

  6. This is from the IPPR today, a leftish think tank that promotes Reeves, Ashworth etc. and even they have a lucid argument for targeted tax increases.

    https://mailchi.mp/ippr.org/newsletter-the-budget-citizens-juries-and-home-office-reform

    Starmer is proving to be a better saboteur than a pyromaniac in a fireworks factory.

    However, the siren voices calling for a new left party are living in cloud cuckoo land: new left parties are graveyards for socialists, as people from Sid French to Arthur Scargill to George Galloway have found out.

    The point may come but it will have to involve significant sectors of the TU/labour movement but with Howard Beckett refusing to stand aside, that’s not going to come in my lifetime.

    Howard: you’ve done a brilliant job on the Labour NEC, keep it that way and allow the country’s biggest transport union to be led by a transport worker.

  7. ‘Maybe it’s not just his finger he’s got somewhere dark’. Good question.

    As the so called leader of Labour, will Starmer be producing his Tax return, like JC did, to show he’s an honourable ‘working class’ person with nothing to hide ? Would love to see it !

    1. foggy – Apparently Jeremy and Keir have roughly the same level of personal wealth (c£3m), one earned it and the other one inherited it.

  8. Here’s an extract from an article examining the wisdom of the left’s response to Keir’s opposition to increasing any taxes until the economy is stronger. .

    The economic case for reining in spending and ratcheting up taxes at the moment is basically non-existent. The government can borrow at very low interest rates. It needs to keep pumping money into the economy to maintain demand and protect jobs.
    The real danger point will come when the pandemic is over. We need to prevent the damage we’ve seen turn into permanent scars: people out of work for years, each day becoming less likely to ever work again, businesses closing and taking down the jobs of those who serviced them. The right time to pay back the debt is later, when the economy is thrumming away under its own power – not before it has had a chance to recover. We made this mistake once after the financial crash. We mustn’t make it all over again now.
    But that seems to be Rishi Sunak’s intention. Focus group research suggests many members of the public – including in Red Wall seats – are already starting to murmur the killer words that all this spending will have to be paid back sometime. This messaging worked for the Tories in two elections and it can do so again.
    The decision to start this agenda with a rise in corporation tax is a politically savvy one. There is much more public support for tax rises than spending cuts. Sunak is using it as the thin end of the wedge. If opposition parties agree to it, they will have tacitly acknowledged that the government needs to start balancing the books. They will be accepting the broad outlines of the austerity narrative, with the only debate as to how to parcel out the pain.
    Incredibly, the Labour left have fallen for this obvious trap. Corbyn loyalists online yesterday were outraged that Starmer opposed the rise, branding him more right wing than the Conservatives. What they are in fact doing is accepting an economic logic which runs completely contrary to their principles.
    It’s an astonishing sight. If they were to peer for a moment at Sunak they would surely spot what he is doing. But they apply instead a far more critical gaze to Starmer. Their growing hatred of him seems increasingly to be the way they define themselves. And yet on austerity he is pursuing precisely the principle which they have raged about for over a decade. And that, by the way, is in no small part because of them. They succeeded in shifting the Labour party to the left. But they are too consumed by tribal indignation to realise the extent of their own accomplishments.
    There will come a time, maybe even not so long from now, when the economy is sufficiently strong that Britain can and should pay down its debts. When it does so, it should be through progressive tax rather than spending cuts. Corporation tax and capital gains should be part of it.
    But that time isn’t now. The government can spend without needing to tax. And it must do, in order to prop up demand amid an unprecedented economic crisis.
    Starmer is being genuinely radical and principled by refusing to countenance a return of austerity. The left of his party should ignore the twinkling baubles Sunak is leaving for them, covered with razors on the inside. The Labour leader, for all their attacks on him, is fighting for the principles they hold.

    https://www.politics.co.uk/week-in-review/2021/02/26/week-in-review-labour-right-to-resist-a-rise-in-corporation-tax/

    Some on the left needs to be careful that they don’t end up being conned into being Johnson’s useful idiots again.

    1. Spot on SteveH. Unfortunately the wine bar socialists who write here with Masters degrees in naivety just don’t get it.

  9. Credit to you jpenney you are spot on with the big problem with MMT, international creditors don’t like being paid in toilet paper, currency goes down in value v dollars and gold, interest rates have to rise from virtually nothing now to 5-10% and/or exchange controls. Zimbabwe and Venezuela here we come, not a good look.

    1. Thank you for sharing the Sun editorial view of the economy Plain Citizen, I am sure everyone will feel as enlightened by it as I do.

      1. Starmer, as predicted is more indecent than the Tories in the Tory labeled party. To them, ie Starmer & Johnson, the electorate are just fodder at the mercy of 1% on the whole planet. Starmer wants his turn so his poster is, i will give u even more plunder than Johnson.

        “Win win” as when the party labeled “Labour” loses, Starmer will still rake in millions flogging inside info to suited vultures. Plus, Johnson will make him Lord somebody or the other to join McNicol, Straw, Blunket, Mandelson et al who r laughing their fangs and snouts off.

        History being repeated. Predictable easily predicted. The many are marginalised. How? By feeding the myth that better to be exploited by Tories parading with red rosettes. The myth that it is some how better to be bashed black and blue with red batons.

        🔵 dressed in 🔴 = ? ? ?

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