Major Liverpool hospital has seen surge in cases and deaths, say whistleblowers
Whistleblowers at a major Merseyside hospital report that the trust has seen a significant surge in coronavirus cases this week, with a high number of deaths leading to a shortage of body bags.
A spokesperson for Aintree University Hospital denied that it had run out of body bags, but did not explicitly deny that the trust had seen a surge in cases and deaths.
Official figures state that the ‘R’ rate of spread of the virus in the north-west of England is only fractionally above the critical ‘1’ – 1.01 – a claim that is challenged by such a significant surge. The alleged situation on Merseyside is an alert to the rest of the nation of the dangers of Boris Johnson’s haste and determination to prematurely lift lock-down measures.
The SKWAWKBOX has warned that Johnson’s actions will lead to a ‘second wave’ of the type already seen in Iran, which is suffering a worse catastrophe than in its first wave.
The UK government is clearly aware of the likely results of its actions, as it has quietly more than tripled temporary mortuary capacity to 100,000 in anticipation of a huge new spike in virus-related deaths.
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Anyone think Blojob & Wankstain will be able to resist blaming the upcoming spike on the marchers?
………..the mayor of Bristol has stated that all marchers & protesters will self isolate for 2 weeks!
Good, but why is anti-racism the only ‘acceptable’ thing to demonstrate? Cop murder and brutality in US is nothing new and it has always been largely against the black community. Videos like the one of the murder of Floyd have been put online for years. Could it be being used and condoned by powers that be as a pressure valve? I don’t know but am suspicious when mayors, politicians in power and media are encouraging it. You going to tell me they have suddenly grown a conscience?
To which the only sensible answer is “f.off”
Covid-19 : the cover for Little Hitlers.
RH said,
“Covid-19 : the cover for Little Hitlers.”
I am coming to the same conclusion or at least despots and power crazed authoritarians.
Off the top of my head there were the extinction rebellion demonstrations so hardly “the only.”
If by “Could ‘IT’ be being used and condoned” you mean the videos and not the murders, no, they’re not being condoned.
If the establishment could censor stuff like that they would but now they can’t.
Technology has come too far for that.
They can’t slap a ‘D Notice’ on YouTube or the internet.
This thread has degenerated rapidly. Those who think CV19 is a conspiracy have dogpiled like Tory or FBPE twitterers, ignoring global scientific consensus and reason to muddy the water and befuddle the people into thinking “the Tories are doing OK, all things considered.”
You people are either beyond stupid or you really are Tory trolls.
I don’t need to read any more of your dross or your links.
CV is real and the Tories have fucked up and are continuing to fuck up this country’s defences against it and you people are helping them by diluting that fact with your puerile bollocks.
BALANCED ENOUGH FOR YOU?
That is exactly what I think is going to happen, the government have been given a gift & will milk it for all its worth anything to divert blame from their incompetence.
Hmm, the whistleblower doesn’t give any indication of the age of the admissions, doesn’t give any indication of previous medical conditions, doesn’t give any indication of how long they have had Covid-19, doesn’t give any indication of numbers. In fact, doesn’t indicate much at all. Is their any corroboration to it except their had been a ” surge in body bags “. Are these all solely from Covid -19, a secondary condition to the ” surge in body bags ” or were the fatalities caused by a non Covid-19 illness such as cancer, heart attacks, strokes, delayed operations for them etc
Have you any idea how ridiculous you sound bb.
Read it again, John. He’s merely suggesting that people could be dying from something other than the Coronavirus! A backlog of unattended-to patients with other conditions is a known hazard. Those chickens could be coming home to roost sooner than we think.
I don’t take instruction from somebody who thinks the lunnies at Offguardian are a quotable source on the subject of the virus timfrom.As for bb’s posts on this subject,they have a sad tendency to lack evidence or balance,as with his comment on above,which is a pity because he is usually a sound and readable contributor to this page.
timfrom, I’m no epidemiologist – I’m not even a statistician, thank fuck – but I can work out for myself that other conditions don’t run on the same short timescale as CV.
They may cause seasonal peaks but not weekly or fortnightly.
Easing of lockdown might cause an increase in hospital self-admissions, but not deaths – not without cross-infection in the hospitals.
Bubber’s theory is not feasible.
Few care to ask such questions these days and particularly when it concerns Sars-Cov-2 which is apparently a ‘woke’ virus and doesn’t attend anti racist protests, rioting and looting (many destroying black neighbourhoods, burning down local food stores businesses and public amenities ) but will attack anyone protesting shut-down or loss of rights and freedoms.
Covid rules literally and hypocritically ok. Wonder what tomorrows horror story will be? All positive news from studies coming out are ignored.
https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/lockdownlunacy
I linked to it because it pulled pointers to research together, that’s all. A quick reference. So no equity firms have an interest in stocking the corona pandemic panic? Can you actually discredit the science he points to? Oh no, of course that’s of zero interest to you it’s just discredit the messenger as per.
At least you bothered to click on the link… that’s progress I suppose but I doubt you read past the bio page in your gotcha excitement.
Thank you Maria. The position you take is commendable.
And to those who see it as a) dangerous, or b) tantamount to reducing the pressure on this reckless Government, it is actually the opposite.
It shows a Government which has no respect for
– the science which describes the dangers we face,
– its duty to plan (for) and organise our efforts and (scarce) resources to manage those dangers, protect life and communities,
– openness, transparency and the inherent value (and frailty) of human beings.
I.E. a Government which is shamelessly exploiting advantage and benefit for itself, instead of reducing and managing dangers to the Many.
“Scientific truth is always paradox, if judged by everyday experience, which catches only the delusive appearance of things. – Karl Marx
In other words, the Right never pass-up on the opportunities presented by a Crisis.
That’s what’s going on here, to wit ( a SINGLE) example:
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/editorial-sercos-secrets-how-pursuit-profit-wrecking-our-response-covid-19
“So no equity firms have an interest in stocking the corona pandemic panic?” No.
Panic buying doesn’t help manufacturers, manufacturers need steady, predictable demand.
Otherwise they spend on expansion and when the panic is over they’re overstaffed, overstocked and going broke because they borrowed to fund the expansion and now customers have enough “toilet paper” to last them a year.
It’s not complicated.
On the wealthy investor father of an autistic child trying to prove a link to MMR for a big class action lawsuit – I think I read more than you did.
And I actually understood what I was reading.
More misleading tittle-tattle garbage, brianbotou..SB is reaching record depths of journalistic absurdity for the gullible in trying to mimic the MSM.
Facts :
Covid-19 – a generally mild disease – is below epidemic levels, and hospital deaths way down from a peak level that was actually only eighth in seasonal severity for the last 27 years (also remember that there is no accurate way of knowing about the number of deaths attributed to Covid).
For an accurate picture of the national situation, see :
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-death-data-in-england-update-6th-june/
… within which, Liverpool hospitals registered no such deaths from 1st-6th June
Real headline ‘SB joins the Guardian in promoting fake news headlines’.
And john thatcher bangs on about Off-Guardian – as if Skwawkbox was different in a tendency towards conspiracy for the gullible as stories are conjured out of thin air!
I agree. The agenda seems to be Bash the Tories, any they deserve to be bashed for :their wanting neglect of the economy, the increased privatisation of the NHS, the dismantling of the social security system, record numbers of homeless plus poverty etc.
However, the bashing of them does not seem to take into account the bigger picture who Cui Bono. It doesn’t permit any independent verifiable medical sources not dependent on international pharmaceutical corporations or benefiting from the virus indirectly from the manufacture of testing equipment for it or any semblance of a balance of medical sources questioning the veracity of either the reliability of the fatalities being pumped out on an almost daily basis or the questionability of the actual test for Covid-19 itself.
Lastly, as you have previously stated, you quote sources but as many other posters have found they either don’t read them, ignore them or use selected quotes from them and try try to discredit the sources.
100% agree with your 11.28am comment brianbotou, particularly the second paragraph.
OK, “who Cui Bono?” – or who Who Gains? You imply that it’s Big Pharma.
Let’s look at that. Parmaceutical companies make money inventing and selling medicines.
Who consumes most medicine – young, middle aged or old? I’m betting it’s the old.
Why kill off your biggest customers? Cui bono?
Some try to claim the virus was made in a lab and released deliberately – who would do that unless they had a vaccine ready to sell, or at least protect themselves – and why wouldn’t they announce the discovery of the vaccine at the peak of fear and value? Cui bono?
“…don’t read them [or] ignore them” – the discerning can detect bias and bullshit very quickly.
Intelligence is obvious – unfortunately for the unintelligent, it can’t be faked – many don’t even know it when they see it in black and white.
No names, no pack drill.
Government could be said to gain from paying out fewer pensions – but compared to the overwhelming cost of CV – pensions are nothing.
Governments who’ve behaved competently will gain some credibility, those who haven’t will lose it. Good.
As far as some rich people and corporations getting richer from CV goes, it’s actually mostly random – pure luck and happenstance which of them gain and which lose their shirts – when the ones who’ve deliberately profiteered from death are discovered though, they’ll be pariahs.
Cui bono?
The biggest cash generators are experimental drugs. Remdesvir for example has been described as a drug looking for a cure. I’ve seen a medical bill for some poor sap on the states, and his bill is (subject to revision) so far $840,000+ of which was a cool $250,000 for pills. Another example is Zolgensma. This goes for $2,1000,000 a dose…
Older people tend to use large amounts (as a group, not individually lol) of patent expired drugs. Money is made. There was a recent case of big pharma paying smaller companies a million not to produce.
@Maria. Appreciate the link. Especially for the autism. I have two autistic step kids, so it’s interesting reading
‘Mild disease’ eh?
Your mission -should you choose to accept it – Is to become the Skwawkbox’s guinea pig, go and contract it, and tell us all from first-hand experience how ‘mild’ it is.
Until then, shut your fucking cave.
Maria, would you still have linked to Handley’s piece if you’d known he was a “private equity entrepreneur” – and that the other bee in his bonnet is proving the MMR vaccine causes autism?
To save you the trouble, here’s his bio from his blog – note “consumer-oriented companies” – his objective is to get retail moving again.
J.B. Handley Co-founded and co-managed Swander Pace Capital, a private equity firm focused on consumer-oriented companies, until retiring in early 2014. He served as Chairman of Renew Life, International Fiber Corp, Fleischmann’s Vinegar Co., and totes>>ISOTONER, to name a few. Played a role in more than two-dozen investments in private consumer companies including Applegate Farms, American Hard Cider Co., Central Coast Surfboards, and Reef Holdings.
Today, J.B. continues to make private investments through Handley Capital Management (recent: Reyn Spooner and Wildfang Co.) and serve on the boards of Great Ajax Corp (NASDAQ: AJX), Wildfang Co., and Vigor Industrial.
Well his statement concerning the fatalities rate is much much much much more accurate than anything coming from Professor Ferguson’s estimates for the death rate adopted by the WHO as to calling it a pandemic. In a number of regions in a number of different countries both in Europe, Asia, North America the fatalities rate has fell between 0.2-0.46% approximately. However, initially Ferguson said it would be about 3.4% now dropping to 1% and even The Chief Medical Officer of the UK said the vast majority of people will not get it, some will have it and not know it, a small group will have mild symptoms, an smaller number will be hospitalized and unfortunately, a smaller number will die. This ties in with the evidence plus the median age is as recorded by 8 countries including Austria as between 80-86 years of age.
Have a long, long read through this McNiven, a referenced documentation of the main events of the pandemic. Originally daily but now monthly updates. Lots for you to check out if you are really interested in balance.
https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
Oh perhaps you would prefer to spend your time finding a reason not to bother and find a way to try and discredit the source than actually engaging with the content?
OK Maria, I just had a glance at it. Again. I read it more thoroughly when someone else linked to it some time ago. This is the last time I humour you.
“1. According to data from the best-studied countries and regions, the lethality of Covid19 is about 0.2%, which is in the range of a severe influenza (flu) and much lower than initially assumed.”
UK pop is 68 million, 0.2% is 136,000. Buckle up.
2, 3, 4, and 5 irrelevant. 6 & 7 claim deaths in nursing homes could be stress, fear and loneliness. Fuck off, dickheads. Lots of those people lived through WWII.
8. Comorbidities – irrelevant.
9. “It was leukaemia” – “they were 109, not 9” – fuck off.
10. “Less deaths than in strong ‘flu seasons” – not what doctors and care homes say. ASK THEM.
11, 12, 13, 14, 15, pick one and I’ll respond but I’m seriously bored with this now.
16. “Not transmissible by aerosol or smear, only by cough or sneeze droplets” BOLLOCKS BOLLOCKS BOLLOCKS. Discredited months ago.
You SERIOUSLY contend that aware people don’t avoid people coughing/sneezing?
Are you STUPID?
17. Face masks bad. Fuck off again, retard.
18, 19 irrelevant
20. Test kits unreliable. And? No probative value either way. Irrelevant.
21, 22, The “Fred said” argument. There are 10,000 Freds saying the opposite.
23. “The economy, stupid.” There’s a political argument to be had.
24 & 25 Surveillance fears. Oh yeah? Where were you 10 years ago when it started? Why suddenly the big worry now? They already know everything about us.
26th and worst crock of shit ever, even when the WHO DID believe it.
“A 2019 WHO study on public health measures against pandemic influenza found that from a medical perspective, “contact tracing” is “not recommended in any circumstances”
Ask the WHO now, numbnuts. Better still, ask South Korea.
Well, McNiven’s certainly knocked any appraisal of slimy starmer’s ‘forensic deconstruction’ into a cocked hat, here.
So we have a “Fuck off dickheads”, a “Fuck off”, a “BOLLOCKS BOLLOCKS BOLLOCKS BOLLOCKS” and a “Fuck off again, retard”.
Yeah, dead forensic, that.
Sorry, that was meant to be 3 BOLLOCKSes.
By the way, does that Swiss doctor work for Dignitas or summit?
”Yeah, dead forensic, that.”
Ordinarily I’d be thinking that was you taking the piss, timfrom.
But that looks suspiciously to me as though it’s a stammer appraisal; just because McNiven’s content includes a few swears it doesn’t in any way detract from his argument. I haven’t seen you spell out what it is McNiven’s said that you disagree with, or can prove otherwise, but rather you’ve just dismissed it because of the language used.
You’ve offered no ‘forensic breakdown’ yourself, but you’ll criticise others’ attempts??
If people try to fill your head with shite (like this government do every weekday afternoon) you’d have to have the patience of Job NOT to get irate. I don’t allow a few choice words to cloud my judgement. Fuck knows I’m perhaps the biggest protagonist of choice words…With a few on here, I have to, in order to keep my blood pressure from going through the roof.
Ooops! There I go, again, see?!
Don’t get carried away, I WAS kidding.
There’s nothing wrong with having a good swear and there’s nothing wrong with making a serious point, but the danger in mixing the two is that the former tends to overshadow the latter and the serious point is lost in the hubbub. Covid-19 notwithstanding, I agree with you most of the time, David.
I replied above 09.07.
John Thatcher, I have presented evidence in past posts, quotes from professors, doctors, medical institutions not dependent on cash from B&MGF foundations or gaining indirectly from it . So your little Ad hominem fails at the first hurdle. Now, its interesting you are also wishing to slander sources not owned by right wing billionaires, funded by international pharmaceutical corporations or by billionaires such as Bill &Melinda Gates as or the Tory propaganda mouth peice The State Broadcaster. Any reasons for this .
Yes, I forgot to add, if we are talking about balance when was the last time you witnessed on MSM, the State Broadcaster any independent Professors, Doctors, Medical institutions not dependent for donations from B&MGF, such as Professor Ferguson and Imperial College who received $400,000,000 dollars from them in the last few years plus Professor Dosten, frequently wheeled out by SB and the MSM, whose medical department in the Charite Hospital in Berlin are recipients of money from B&MGF plus of course he is a CEO of a company making testing equipment for the Covid19 ( which I have also in the past posted evidence of his involvement with them and his position in the company) or the myriad of other “ experts”. Now, would it not be very enlightening to have a balanced discussion with these numerous medical professionals and those that support the official narrative. But we don’t. Ever ask yourself the question why ?
” Ever ask yourself the question why ?”
Good question.
This is an aspect I just cannot fathom ie. why so few are on the ‘left’ are not questioning why other professionals and scientific voices are excluded from big media, censored and attacked. For me it is a red flag when there is a media and political contrived ‘consensus’.
As Maria says : “I just cannot fathom ie. why so few are on the ‘left’ are not questioning why other professionals and scientific voices are excluded from big media, censored and attacked.”
Perhaps the label ‘left’ is simply inaccurate, or inadequate in describing a non-radical politics of compliance with authority?
Whatever – the defense of the essential government strategy under the cover of criticizing aspects of implementation is certainly an odd way to mount a political/social critique of the status quo. Particularly given the growing impoverishment and illness (and cover for more of it) that lock-up creates. Yet the cry is ‘Let’s have some more assaults on the populace’.
Anyone with a real radical bone in their body would find the totality of evidence on Cov-19: the exaggerated fears over what is now established as a relatively mild virus that is behaving much like any other virus and the associated removal of citizens’ rights – they should find the scenario highly questionable or suspicious. ‘Radicals’ in a wide spectrum, would certainly not blow a gasket when someone points out that the narrative doesn’t fit the evidence – particularly after the MSM performance in demolishing Corbyn which used much the same techniques.
What is particularly noticeable is the lack of basing any opinion on opposing evidence – almost as if the fear about the disease has changed into a general fear of confronting reality. Perhaps some simply find the womb-like isolation of lock-up comforting and unchallenging.
After an initial period of taking the story at face value, and supporting sensible social distancing, I started to smell a rat after listening to those patently biased ‘Daily Briefings’. I then went into the historical and current data as a means of examining the context of the current year – and saw that if ‘lock-up’ was justified for this season, it would be justified in about 1 in 3 years, given the *actual* comparative death rates. It then became clear that a lot of experienced academics had scepticism about what was happening as being totally disproportionate.
It really isn’t difficult to dig and find the true – if much more complex – picture that lies behind the scary stuff from the Beeb and others.
Instead, I see here a constant reiteration and acceptance of the government story, with the only criticism being that they didn’t cause *enough* deprivation of liberty and impoverishment of the economy!
A counter *argument* based on evidence would make a nice change.
Well said, RH!
“Perhaps the label ‘left’ is simply inaccurate, or inadequate in describing a non-radical politics of compliance with authority?”
I think you are correct and the label ‘left’ as well as the label ‘right’ no longer apply and both have their weakness of compliance with authority.
I am not a subscriber to a fully managed, autocratic, technocratic society or economy whatever ideological guise it comes under, totalitarian rule has never and will never appeal to me.
https://www.cebm.net/oxford-covid-19-evidence-service/
You really have gone overboard with the juvenile garbage coming out of OffGuardian haven’t you.They were one of my go to sites before their new alt right persona became evident with the utter crap they came out with when news about the virus first became public.and they have spent the time since frantically searching for evidence to support their original thesis that the virus was a hoax.I have stopped going there as a result,since if I can’t trust what they say about the virus,I can’t trust them on anything else either,much like the corporate media owned by those billionares you refer to.
John, I don’t just look at what off-Guardian State, I use a variety of sources and sites to corroborate what they say. For example, global research, sometimes counterpunch, occasionally Media Lens, Swiss Propaganda, Oxford CBEM and a myriad of other sites to check the validity of what they write. Remember, they use a great many guest writers, for example, they had 12 medical , independent from the B&MGF plus the international pharmaceutical corporations, Professors, doctors, Virologists, institutions demonstrate the paucity of the narrative we are being spun about this “ pandemic “.
If you look closely, you will also notice that they use sites such as the Swiss propaganda site, which various posters on this site have quoted from, to substantiate what they are stating and many more.
Now, compare that with the data being constantly pumped out by SB, the State Broadcaster, The MSM and the “ experts, such as Professor Christian Dosten constantly wheeled out to reinforce the hyperbole, the frenzied hysteria of Covid -19 ( who works at the Berlin Charite hospital recipient of substantial funding from B&MGF plus is CEO of a company standing to make millions from Covid19 testing equipment that he co-authored the authenticity of, yet, many many leading virologists, medical Professors question the validity of it) and never mentioned when he is wheeled out to reinforce the .
Moreover the numbers by the UKs chief medical officer’s own admission , it will not affect the vast majority of the population, will effect only mildly a small percentage of the people, an even smaller percentage will have serious symptoms requiring hospitalisation and alas a minute fraction of the total number of people will die whose median age, according to the stats from 8 countries thus far including Austria, is between 80-86.
The fatalities rate falls between about 0.2-0.46% a huge difference from Professor Ferguson’s plus Imperial Colleges estimate( adopted by the WHO as one of the reasons to say its a “ pandemic “ despite his woefully inadequate track record of statistical estimates) who said it could be 3.4% and after an outcry revised it down to 1% and has now been sacked as he was by DERA in 2006 over the foot & mouth epidemic.
He & Imperial have received over $400,000,000 in the last few years as the WHO have had billions and billions donated to them by from the same source B&MGF which made a fortune from their stocks in international pharmaceutical corporations that made billions and billions from the vaccines never used in the 2009 SARS 1 “ pandemic “ based on another estimate from Ferguson. Vested interests?
This means 50% of the fatalities from this “ pandemic “ are either side of this 80-86 age group.
Yet, millions and millions of people stand to lose their jobs, their livelihoods and their homes. Cui Bono ? Do you know who will Cui Bono? Check it out, research it, and then ask yourself why the people who own the MSM, the Politicians ( including Starmer), the International Pharmaceutical corporations are trying their utmost to discredit any information platform they don’t own or can’t control!
My brother works as an administrator in a hospital on Merseyside. He informs me that there has been a massive increase in ‘hospital’ deaths throughout the entire region, but the ‘official’ cause of death is often vague as Covid 19 is a notifiable disease……..often referenced as pneumonia, or respiratory failure. He doubts that we will never know the actual death toll, but there appears to be a spike in the curve aka a 2nd Wave. Merseyside will be advised to prepare for total lock-down.
Perhaps your brother could quote figures, since no such ‘spike’ appears in any known data?
The whole ‘second wave’ scenario is actually a story based on no strong evidence of likelihood. (Again, look at the Oxford CEBM group for a review of the evidence).
… and the attribution of deaths to Covid-19 under the mess made by new rules actually works in the opposite way to what you suggest – i.e. to inflate the numbers attributable to it, rather than the reverse.
I’m afraid a lot of this stuff is verifiably the same league as Corbyn’s ‘antisemitism’.
I think the following link to an interview with Karl Friston on modelling the disease is a good counterweight to the nonsense built on the demolished Imperial College exaggerations :
https://unherd.com/2020/06/karl-friston-up-to-80-not-even-susceptible-to-covid-19/
My brother is now bound by a new agreement, ‘an oath of confidentiality’, not to divulge any information ref admissions & deaths in hospitals. It appears that senior management in Hospital Trusts have been threatened by Gov’t to observe strict confidentiality.
As RH enjoys quoting figures, perhaps he could find out exactly how many patients over the age of 65 have been transferred this year out of NHS Hospital wards & into their homes &/or Care Homes & how many were untested? I have tried to contact both Matt Hancock & my own MP Bill Esterton, but neither have replied. This action was taken to make NHS Hospitals ready for the predicted surge in Covid 19, but instead it successfully infected the homes of those who needed care & protection the most…….to ‘Protect the NHS’.
Does RH believe that the social experiment involving herd immunity & culling was right? Do nothing & let the old & vulnerable die……….or is it just the economy stupid! Let nature take its course?
Their is a difference between “people dying from Covid-19” to “people dying with Covid-19”. Covid-19 appears to kill those that already have weaker inmune systems.
I don’t wish to excuse the government that failed to protect the most vulnerable. The government should have moved quicker by identifying and isolating those most at risk and equipping hospitals and nursing homes with PPE in a timely fashion. Should these simple measures have been taken, we wouldn’t need to have a quarantine.
The truth is most people that contract Covid-19 only develop mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. That isn’t a comfort for the ones that are vulnerable to by killed by Covid-19 when their is the lack of adequate measures that put them in harm way.
Exactly Maria V.
The policy of discharging elderly vulnerable from hospitals to care homes or home, effectively alone, in the name of ‘save the NHS’, whether all down to Gov or NHS managers/Gov inspired was verging on criminal and certainly morally a crime. Nightingale Hospitals remained largely empty or lightly used is a fact that compounds the crime against elderly..
I keep banging on about this but so many forget that the NHS is not what it used to be, over the decades of covert privatisation it has corporatized ideology, structuring and practices now deeply embedded within it. That is not to say that it does not retain many caring and ethical staff but the pressures in corporate systems are enormous, just take the media as one example, journalists having to conform to keep their jobs and rewards for the big names becoming enormous. Of course selection of journalists and staff with a mindset that agrees with the overall ideology and sidelining of free thinkers and true investigate journalists has long been a practice in all media printed or broadcast. The news and discussion has become increasingly more selective and the boundaries of news, ideas and opinion narrower and narrower. Corporate systems reward conformers and stifle dissenters and free thinkers and so sustain themselves through corporatized selection of staff loyal to the corporate ideals and goals.
“The truth is most people that contract Covid-19 only develop mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. That isn’t a comfort for the ones that are vulnerable …”
Indeed – no individual comfort – but it is the situation. And it is the fact that the overall lethality of the virus is not severe.
The Care Home situation was indeed not forseen – but that was the case in other countries; it isn’t something exclusive to the UK. What is clear is that Care Homes provide a perfect environment for maximising the effect of any infection.
One factor that has not been given any airtime is that the previous year had a notably low level of mortality. This has logically increased the numbers of the vulnerable dying in the current year, which has had higher levels of infections and consequent deaths.
Maria, I am sorry to say a number on the left, including the Trotskyists and the spectrum of far left organisations, have swallowed the propaganda from the power of subjective arguments. I am of the view that they are ignoring the independent verifiable evidence from independent international reputable medical sources because the belief is this will be the beginning of the catalyst to seriously damage the Neo Liberal orthodoxy. Of course there are other reasons but this is one that jumps off their various websites. Eg World Socialist Web site or the Morning Star etc.
That is another highly likely take on ‘left gullibility’, brianbotou.
I’m afraid that the idea that the fear-induced subservience of the population heralds the death of neoliberalism is a naivety beyond belief.
… but this part of the left has never been very good at getting a grip on the basis of real political power.
It’s an analogy of Platos the Cave which I have just read about and is very applicable to swallowing the guff about the ” Pandemic “.
Plato describes a scene were people are chained to a wall and can only view the blank wall. A fire behind them casts shadows on the wall thinking this is the reality when obviously it’s a projection of it.
Much in the same way the MSM, The Tory Mouth Piece the State Broadcaster and all the medical professionals linked either directly or indirectly to the B&MGF plus GlaxoSmithKline, Welcome trust etc casts the shadows on the blank wall for those chained in their minds to take as gospel. Its were critical analysis comes in, as you said, unfortunately, many for whatever reason are unwilling to do this.
“I am of the view that they are ignoring the independent verifiable evidence from independent international reputable medical sources because the belief is this will be the beginning of the catalyst to seriously damage the Neo Liberal orthodoxy.”
I agree, though worded it differently a while back,something like, ‘are they (the ‘left’) hoping to be able to bring about some Socialist nirvana’. What’s that saying? Careful what you wish for or make a deal with the devil… ?
The forces that have/can buy the biggest influence on politics/Governments, media, education, global institutions etc. are insanely wealthy private vested interests, old established rentier classes, monopolists and billionaire ideologues who claim to have all the answers and can afford to buy influence to bring about their personal vision, not Socialists or true democrats.
All I see is neoliberalism ‘privatise the world’ moving into a full repressive Corporatocracy (for want of a better word) at great speed.
David McNiven, 1.58 Obviously, you haven’t been paying attention to what FB, Twitter and other media platforms on the internet have been doing in order to bring in censorship to the internet.
Suggest you look at FBs latest policy to their arbitary decision which are state sponsored media sites and which are not.
Suggest you look at the former UK ambassadors Craig Murray and Peter Ford have to say about Twitter censoring them.
Suggest you look at Professors Chomsky, Hermann, Piers Morgan and many other prominent academics points about censorship both in traditional forms of media and now on the electronic media are applying censorship!!!!
David McNiven, 2.35pm. As the evil old witch used to say ” I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think well, if they attack one personally they have not a single political argument left”. If the cap fits wear it, it suits you a treat!!!
Well aware of Twitter & FB ‘darking’ in the name of ‘fake news’ – of course the right control all the media they can, but without shutting down the internet completely they can’t achieve blanket coverage.
Do you imagine commercial enterprises are dumb enough to turn the internet into pure propaganda? That’s what it would be if censorship went as far as you fear and right wing governments would like, but FB and Twitter would lose their shirts by ‘going 1984’ – that’s where your analysis falls down.
If the technology to silence the left completely became available they still wouldn’t dare use it for fear of triggering violent revolution – they depend on the pretence of democracy.
Far easier and simpler just to own the companies that count the votes…
“Piers Morgan and many other prominent academics.” Yeah, right 🙂
The evidence of widespread censorship by omission is there. The Beeb is a prime example – as said, a mirroring of the distortions about Corbyn. Same old same old.
Just as an example – anyone watching or listening to their news would have no idea of the dramatic decrease in infections and mortality, and emerging analyses suggesting much higher levels of resistance to the disease, such as that posited by Karl Friston in his team’s cutting-edge examination of the emerging data.
It’s not a question of “ pure propaganda “ as defined by the totalitarian states. Rather the very sophisticated propaganda as first in modern times defined, developed and a utilised by Edward Bernays, nephew of Freud.
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/203430-the-conscious-and-intelligent-manipulation-of-the-organized-habits-and
What you don’t seem to be aware of is the US is controlled by interlocking corporations which include over 90% of the MSM, including FB and Twitter, and all part of the same interlocking corporate structure as President Jimmy Carter and numerous papers, journals studies from the former US state economist Professor Michael Hudson, to Political scientist Michael Parenti and many others.
https://theintercept.com/2015/07/30/jimmy-carter-u-s-oligarchy-unlimited-political-bribery/
Lastly, it should have read Professor Piers Morgan former professor at Sheffield University, Co- Director of the organisation for propaganda studies.
Now, have you read of the ground breaking work in Professors Chomsky & Herman’s book about the control, manipulation, filtering of information and ultimate censorship? It’s called “ Manufacturing Consent” well worth reading it might help lift the scales from your eyes.
Oh by the way, you didn’t mention the fact that former U.K. ambassadors Peter Ford and Craig Murray, have complained publicly about the filtering, censorship that Twitter is employing which one method used by the establishment to shape and control the views of even those on the left. The other is being selective, just as you have been😁😀🤣
fao RH “The Care Home situation could indeed not have been foreseen….” Is this a serious statement, or are you just playing mischief? The Care Home situation was foreshadowed by events & reports from other countries, which I suggest informed the deliberate actions of government. If you cannot join up the dots, let me do it for you…………..thousands of vulnerable, elderly people were transferred out of NHS Hospital beds, untested. NHS Hospital Trusts did not know whether or not they were infected with a potentially lethal disease, that could not only kill the patient but introduce infection into an environment guaranteed to kill other vulnerable people. QED.
The cruise liners were an early example of a closed environment acting as an incubator for a disease that was quickly spread world-wide by planes. Quite a coincidence that planes have kept flying throughout………..unchecked free movement for the bourgeois flying class, as the poor, huddled masses suffer the most………perhaps there’s too much dark matter in BAME groups?
“Care Home situation could indeed not have been foreseen”
You’re right – I should clarify that : the particularly severe impact on care homes *was not* forseen in countries that had higher death rates and larger care homes. This was also true in Sweden where it has been admitted as a failure – but after the event.
Whether it ‘could have’ been forseen is speculation. An accurate representation of the disease might have helped more than the blanket panic about a generally mild virus : if the true situation in Italy had been portrayed, for instance, with the average age of death at over 80, the focus might have been different. As to testing : that *still* is inaccurate, and was in the early stages, and the hurried revision (who knows why?) of death certification presented a totally confused picture where no-one knew the contribution of Covid-19. Then there is the fact that keeping the frail and elderly in hospital – and even putting them on ventilators (with a high likelihood of killing such people) was a good idea Of course – policy did play a part : the stupidity of a general lock-up was unjustified and unfocused, with Care Homes not seen as the central key issue that they were – and suffering from that fact – perfect breeding grounds for any virus, with residents suffering major trauma from the nature of general isolation.
A further factor, as said is that, by definition, there was a larger vulnerable population
The lack of protective wear for staff was, indeed a massive failure. But the assumption that it was all part of a cunning policy to ‘kill’ the vulnerable is wildly unlikely, given the incompetence and clear lack of grasp shown by the Spiv government. Of the policies, the majority (including general lock-up, closure of schools, closure of borders, use of masks) were *not* recommended by the WHO in the sane days before this Panicdemic was dreamed up. The references are there to see in a document produced only in October last year. All distractions from the knitting in the psy-ops focus.
As to the cruise ships – the analysed data early on actually showed far lower levels of lethality in what was a laboratory environment for a more vulnerable population (see the ‘Diamond Princess’). But again – this was never emphasized in the rush to instill panic in the population. ‘Focus’ it was not.
If this government has had any success, I agree that it was not in the area of protecting the vulnerable. It has been in the conning of a large proportion of the population into seeing monsters and wearing masks as a protection from such imaginings.
The main question remains : Why was (and is) such an unremarkable virus (in a historical context) treated as an unprecedented event, whilst those *actually* vulnerable were not identified – let alone protected?
No, it should have read Piers Robinson, you numbskull.
Oh dear, so you do know who he is, yet, you choose not to state from the outset or is it you looked up the information I gave you and discovered the correct spelling for his name. Did you read any of his posts. ? I suspect not. Read his posts. Read the the book ” manufacturing consent” then you might stop writing regurgitated MSM propaganda. You dimwit!!!
David McNiven . Here is Professor Piers Robinson speaking about propaganda. Watch and learn. !!
Don’t presume to teach me, you pretentious little prick, I read ‘Manufacturing Consent’ when it was first published in the Eighties – but I’d already studied propaganda as part of my job so the nuts of it were and are well known to me..
It’s good that you’re trying to learn though.
Just don’t try to run before you can walk.
Really, well I don’t believe a fucking word of it. You are full of shxt . If you look at what you have written, it betrays your total ignorance of being manipulated, by the organs of the truth. Now, go away read the book, watch the YouTube video and them tomorrow offer your apologies for being a complete eeegit. Off you pop now, you have a lot of reading and viewing to do!!
Bubber, unlike you I don’t read anything uncritically and I don’t link to videos or the writings of others and claim their beliefs as my own.
Developing your own political beliefs isn’t like baking a cake where you just add ingredients and stir – it’s about continually challenging existing beliefs to see if they still hold up in light of current events.
If you find me dogmatic it’s because I’ve held most of the more profound beliefs since I was six and explained to my Sunday School teacher why a deity could not possibly exist and why religion had developed in early verbal societies.
I did that with a degree of logical discrimination and insight you couldn’t approach today.
In sixty-odd years my beliefs and philosophy have remained unchanged.
Some people say they don’t suffer fools gladly.
I don’t suffer fools at all and I don’t apologise for it.
I found ‘Manufacturing Consent’ disappointing for something with Chomsky’s name on it – I suspect it was largely Herman’s writing – but maybe the later, post-Big Bang revisions were edited to reduce the tedious repetition, I don’t know.
Chomsky, Galbraith (economics) and Laing (psychiatry) are three of my modern heroes but I don’t read any of them uncritically.
You should try it.
It is odd how for months on end there was a blatantly obvious shill/propagandist posting on skwawkbox every day, all day long, dissembling and endlessly repeating his platitudes and distortions of reality and his lies and falsehoods, and yet *I* was the only person calling him out, and did so repeatedly. But not only THAT, a number of regular posters on here came to his defence again and again when I called him out for his lies and deceit, attacking *me* in the process AND smearing me as a ‘conspiracy nut’ and other such vitriol AND calling me paranoid etc.
Hmm…… and Yes David, *I* believe you, even if Brian doesn’t!
If you have a beef with SP, that is your concern Alan.
Oh, right, Brian, so you couldn’t care less about signpost lying and fabricting stuff, all concocted and designed to paint Jeremy and the left and his alleged CLP in a negative light. AND endlessly repeating his lies and fabrication on a daily basis, for months on end (you know, what with Repetition being a subtle form of brain-washing, and a fundamental black propaganda technique). Is that right?
Your post is short and sweet, but it speaks REAMS about YOU.
Mcbullshit, 6.57 am . ” I don’t link to videos..”. Really, you spout the same unthinking drivel pumped out by the right wing billionaires propaganda and all the other establishment owned MSM, without scarcely any critical analysis.
Now, Chomsky openly admitted that Herman wrote most of the book so your quick googling of the book didn’t give you time to Google it further. I don’t ” find you dogmatic” I don’t find you anything in particular at all. I observe, read, and use critical analysis which you appear to jettison with your slavish devotion to ” the boogie man” narrative ( to quote a phrase from Manufacturing Consent). ” …logical insight…” you have not displayed much of that over this ” pandemic”.
Moreover, dropping names is a leaf taken out of Edward Bernays book, ” propaganda “. Suggest you read it, digest it, use your long dormant cognition skills and realise you are being taken for a mug by the hyperbole, whipped up hysteria to create a new paradigm. Now, back to school for you me lad.
I’m fascinated by the rapidity with which ad hominem nonsense emerges here, and the parallel phenomenon of how little attention is paid to actual evidence and considered analysis.
You can justifiably argue about a number of issues – but not the deeply propagandised nature of BBC coverage of Cpvid-19, which is using well-tried techniques of omission and distortion.The Groan’s coverage is of the same ilk. For instance, how many of the population could give an account of current proportionate levels of mortality in the past week, compared with the first week in April?
Here’s some actual figures. They represent the percentage of the population who have died in each Winter/Spring season since 1993/94. It is worth noting that prior to this period, there have been considerably worse seasons in terms of mortality.
For reference 0.1% currently represents around 60,000 souls, and over the period, population has grown by about 18%.
How does this past season compare with the other 26 in terms of mortality? In how many years should lock-up associated measures have applied, given the criterion provided by this year?
Year %
1993 to 1994 0.64
1994 to 1995 0.62
1995 to 1996 0.64
1996 to 1997 0.64
1997 to 1998 0.60
1998 to 1999 0.63
1999 to 2000 0.62
2000 to 2001 0.58
2001 to 2002 0.58
2002 to 2003 0.57
2003 to 2004 0.56
2004 to 2005 0.56
2005 to 2006 0.54
2006 to 2007 0.52
2007 to 2008 0.52
2008 to 2009 0.53
2009 to 2010 0.50
2010 to 2011 0.50
2011 to 2012 0.50
2012 to 2013 0.52
2013 to 2014 0.48
2014 to 2015 0.54
2015 to 2016 0.51
2016 to 2017 0.52
2017 to 2018 0.55
2018 to 2019 0.50
2019 to 2020 0.60
“… deeply propagandised nature of BBC…”
When was it not? Which MSM outlet isn’t?
Grown-ups take nothing they say at face value.
Slipping a nugget of truth into a snake oil sales pitch works well with slack-jawed yokels and conspiracy nuts – I’m surprised you’re not making more headway here.
“When was it not?”
Indeed – it should be self-evident. Which is why I’m surprised at the gullibility about the establishment narrative on view here – unless there’s a surfeit of self-identified “slack-jawed yokels” falling for the “snake oil pitch” 🙂
Those actual numbers above (as opposed to scary ghosty stuff) are easily available, even if they require a bit of effort.
Simple question : Given the reality shown: will it be a good idea to shut down the economy every 3-4 years on the basis of similar infection rates?